Israeli alpine unit!!!

[IDFM203]

Israel trains and fields an elite alpine unit due to this one big mountain that serves as a very big strategic buffer from any Syrian attack. Now Israel for the most part is not a winter country (understatement!) but nonetheless it fields this elite unit. Most of the unit comes already from elite units in the idf (especially from sayeret golani) so except for the alpine part(well after their training, they are elite in that as well) it is comprised of elite personal

I am curious to know what you guys thought of the way this unit looks and I am also curious as to what you guys think is the best alpine unit in the world. Also I know that Israel does a lot of cross training with other alpine units, I am curious to know if Israel does cross training with the unit that you picked as the best.

Oh and of course. Please don’t make comments or insinuations that are on the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict. I ask if you can please avoid those.

oh and of course heres some pics......
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/527.JPG
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/528.JPG
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/529_.JPG
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/_885.JPG
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/551.JPG
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/608.JPG
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/743.JPG
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/pictures/SF/images/744.JPG

[Argyll]

That 1st pic is definately a female smile.................I need to learn to ski again!!! :lol:
Maybe broaden the request,alpine kind of points to Central Euro teams,ask about Mountain Warfare might be a bit better ;)

German Gebirsjaeger
Norwegian Jeager Korps(?)

[IDFM203]

That 1st pic is definately a female smile.................I need to learn to ski again!!! :lol:I see what your saying but literally there are no females in the Israeli Special Forces, though again I see what you are saying.
Oh and after seeing that smile I guess I could understand why a lot of Israeli’s want to get into this unit for besides going to a lot of other countries to cross train( being that Israel has very little snow and its little snow season is only a few months) they also ski!!!! :D

[Argyll]

Maybe she's an Instructor?

[Flanker]

The worlds best alpine/arctic warfare units are without a doubt the Norwegian special forces, Hærens Jegerkommando (HJK) and Marinejegerkommando (MJK). These units do not, to my knowledge, crosstrain with the IDF.

[IDFM203]

Maybe broaden the request,alpine kind of points to Central Euro teams,ask about Mountain Warfare might be a bit better ;)

German Gebirsjaeger
Norwegian Jeager Korps(?)To be honest, I know very little about alpine warfare. I know there is a difference between alpine and mounting warfare, I think……… is there?!?

Anyway’s from the pictures I think its pretty obvious of what I am talking about.

What is the best alpine unit that learns and trains how to fight in snowy conditions like in these pics.. And how do the isrealis in these pictures look. Are they properly fitted etc…etc…

[IDFM203]

Maybe she's an Instructor?Nope impossible. The women instructors are usually sniping instructors or things of that nature but they usually teach on base. They aren’t really in the field at all.

[Jack Mehoff]

US Army "freeze your ass off" warfare ideal place is in Alaska. Fort Carson, Colorado also has some nice place up in the Rockies Mtn for that kind of high altitude training too.

[Argyll]

Is this unit been around for a while?
I have one of the old "Osprey Books" on the IDF and there are some pics of Mountain and Arctic Warfare(MAW) troops ,and it's an old book!
It definately has guys in white cammo suits and ski shoes!

[Argyll]

so then who is she?............Entertainment Officer ;) ?

[IDFM203]

Is this unit been around for a while?
I have one of the old "Osprey Books" on the IDF and there are some pics of Mountain and Arctic Warfare(MAW) troops ,and it's an old book!
It definately has guys in white cammo suits and ski shoes!the unit was created in 1974.

what is that osprey book?!?

[IDFM203]

so then who is she?............Entertainment Officer ;) ?no HE (damit :D :bash: :D )……its just some soldier enjoying being photographed on a training op!

[Argyll]

I cant remeber the name,
I do belive it was something like Israeli Special Forces it's up in my loft somewhere,a great book for model making(54mm figs!!)

[IDFM203]

US Army "freeze your ass off" warfare ideal place is in Alaska. Fort Carson, Colorado also has some nice place up in the Rockies Mtn for that kind of high altitude training too.I know this unit cross trians with the U.S. amogst a few other nations in this type of warfare (due to israels short snow season).

what unit in the U.S. do you think it is cross training with?!?

[Argyll]

Looks like a women tho!! rofl

Here's the book and link

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=Q8374~ser=ELI

[IDFM203]

I cant remeber the name,
I do belive it was something like Israeli Special Forces it's up in my loft somewhere,a great book for model making(54mm figs!!)how old is that book?!? I read alot of books on the israeli special forces before I went in to the army so I always thought I had read every one.

appearently I havent. is that bok a good one?!?
if you remember the name please send me a PM or post it here.

thanks :D

[IDFM203]

Looks like a women tho!! roflI disagree but I sure as hell like this debate over the israeli /palastinin flame wars. :D





Here's the book and link

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=Q8374~ser=ELIthanks :D

[Argyll]

:lol: much better!!
Tho I still think it looks like a females mouth ;)

Yes that book is quite old,but has some good stuff,there's also another one too about the early days of the IDF

the other book
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/title_detail.php/title=Q4506~ser=MAA~per=6

[IDFM203]

:lol: much better!!
Tho I still think it looks like a females mouth ;)

Yes that book is quite old,but has some good stuff,there's also another one too about the early days of the IDFYeah I never read that book but the author of it has another one about the Israeli Special Forces that is part of the power series. A very good read indeed.

So besides your infatuation with that soldiers mouth ;) …what do you think of this Israeli unit?!?

[Herrmannek]

Woman indeed.


disagree but I sure as hell like this debate over the israeli /palastinin flame wars. :D
Bo zawsze przyjemniej jest pogadać o dupie Maryni. :lol:

[IDFM203]

Woman indeed.


disagree but I sure as hell like this debate over the israeli /palastinin flame wars. :D
Bo zawsze przyjemniej jest pogadać o dupie Maryni. :lol:hey when you post pictures I guess you can expect these comments. But for real that is not a women.


oh and what did you say?!?

[Herrmannek]

It's always nicer to talk about Marynas ass.*

*Maryna - polish female name and that sentence is used to describe disobliging chit-chats. :)

[Argyll]

I'd like more info ,seems a pretty good outfit by all accounts,though given it's tactical importance,and job description it would seem that this unit has probably seen the least amount of combat experience,but then again.....maybe they've had the most!! ;)
I've never heard of a poor Israeli SF unit anyway,they're all damn good!

[IDFM203]

I'd like more info ,seems a pretty good outfit by all accounts,though given it's tactical importance,and job description it would seem that this unit has probably seen the least amount of combat experience,but then again.....maybe they've had the most!! ;)
I've never heard of a poor Israeli SF unit anyway,they're all damn good!Yep most are very good though I admit that this unit congers up a bit of a mystery even amongst a lot of Israeli’s being that Israel isn’t a winter country (understatement!)

as for this unit I will post now alot of inforemation about it(hey you asked for it :D )

oh and all this is taken from a public website and as such is public knowledge (no OPSEC rules broken here)

Unit "Alpinistim" - Overview

While many IDF units have a large reserve personnel force, Unit Alpinistim is unique since it's one of only few all reserve IDF SF units. The unit's members are drawn mainly from veterans of Sayeret Golany - the Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP) unit of the Golany infantry brigade. The rest of the unit members are usually new immigrants with extensive mountain/snow warfare experience in their original native countries. These unit's members largely contribute from their knowledge to the Israeli soldiers who rarely ever dealt with snow or harsh winter environments.

The reason why Sayeret Golany was selected as the main source for the unit's personnel, lay in the fact that the Golany infantry Brigade is in charge on Israeli northern border. As such, Sayeret Golany personnel always had much more intensive winter training then other SF units or conventional infantry units.

Another reason for specifically choosing Sayeret Golany reserve personnel to man the unit is the extreme strategic importance of the mountain. Sayeret Golany is considered as one of the most elite units in the IDF. Moreover, selecting such highly trained reserve personnel, rather then plain infantry soldiers, is also crucial since as the Israeli-Arab Yom Kippur War (October War) has demonstrated in 1973, it's very likely that any attempt to take out the mountain will involve large forces of Syrian commandos.

History

Israel captured the Golan Heights from Syria in the 1967 Israeli-Arab War (Six Day War). At that time there were two IDF units that specialized in extreme weather fighting:

Sayeret Golany - as the elite unit of the IDF northern infantry brigade - Golany.

Sayeret MATKAL - which had a inner alpine team with specialized gear and equipment.

However, in both units the winter training and equipment were only secondary to the units' original roles.

In 1973 the Yom Kippur War began with Syria and Egypt launching twin surprise attacks on Israel. In the first day of the war, a battalion of Syrian commandos, well trained in mountain warfare, took out the Israeli military outposts on the mountain that were protected by regular infantry soldiers. The Syrian forces encountered very little resistance, took several Israeli soldiers as prisoners and killed the rest. Part from the lives lost, the Syrians also managed to put their hands on highly classified information and electronic intelligence gathering equipment.

On the last day of the war, the Golany infantry brigade, lead by Sayeret Golany, managed to recapture Mount Hermon. By the time the battle was over, 52 Israeli soldiers were killed and over 100 were badly wounded. After the end of the war, sporadic fighting and skirmish involving Israeli SF units and Syrian commandos continued through the rough winter on the Syrian Mount Hermon peaks, until a cease fire agreement was achieved and effected in May 1974.

The Yom Kippur War vividly showed how ill-equipped and under-trained the Israeli troops were to handle themselves in a combat situation in alpine conditions on the 5,280 foot (2200 meters) mountain. Due to the importance of the mountain, the unique winter warfare expertise needed and the difficulties taking back the mountain once it's conquered the IDF decided to establish a new SF unit specifically designed for winter fighting.

While a general IDF decision to from such unit was made in 1973 after the war, the direct trigger for the creation of the unit took place shortly after the war. In October 31, 1973, a week after the official seize fire with Syria a Sayeret T'zanhanim team went out for a reconnaissance mission inside Syrian territory, north of Mount Hermon. The team encountered a snow blizzard and was confined to a cave. After the Sayeret T'zanhanim sent out a distress call, Sayeret MATKAL's 12 man alpine team was sent in for the rescue. The Sayeret MATKAL team was under equipped and under trained for such harsh condition and on the way to the area one operator froze to death. Few months later in early 1974, Unit Alpinistim was formed.

The unit was first formed as a mandatory service personnel IDF unit, but after two years the unit was disbanded because the IDF no longer saw justification for such unit made up of regular, active duty soldiers.

In late 1979, the IDF try again to form the unit, but this time it was strictly based on a reserve (voluntary) force, made up of veterans from various SF units, mainly Sayeret Golany.

Training

Most of the IDF SF units have a rigorous 20 months training regime (Maslul). Only on the finishing of this Maslul does the soldiers receive their unit's insignia and prompted to combat ready status. Unit Alpinistim, however, has a different training regime.

Since all the soldiers are already graduates of SF units, with years of training and combat experience in Lebanon and elsewhere, regular training is not necessary. So all the focus is placed on what the solders don’t already know. The new recruits in the unit have a lot to learn and the veterans units members are willing teachers. The soldiers learn anything necessary to survive in the harsh conditions, from advanced fast roping, snow combat maneuvers, camouflage and skiing in the slopes.

The secondary mission of the unit, SAR is also intensively learn, including advanced paramedical training to many of the unit's operators.

The new recruits do most of their training roped together in case anyone should fall into a crevice, and are learning to understand the snow from close up. Each training session usually consists of spending several nights in the snow, in war time conditions, including digging their own snow caves and sleep in them, huddled in pairs to stay warm. Main focus is placed on capturing and defending fortified positions in snow conditions, the unit primary objective.

As previously mentioned, A major contribution to the unit's training quality is done by the unit's operators who are Jewish immigrants who served in foreign armies' Alpine units. For example, the unit's head master training instructor since 1982, is a former officer in the Swedish SF mountain-alpine unit. This contribution is especially important since the Israelis, many of whom have rarely seen snow, let alone dealt with it longer than an afternoon - must be taught everything from scratch.

The initial training for each new operators last 8 non consecutive weeks.

3 weeks - basic winter training - snow movement, survival, winter dressing, fighting and navigation.

2 weeks - general SAR training - fast roping, mountain climbing and medical training.

2 weeks - advanced winter training - skiing, tactics.

1 week - Extreme weather SAR.

The fact that the soldiers are resaves and not mandatory service has also a big impact on the training since the soldiers only do 45-60 reserve days per year. Therefore, the training is spread on several years, each year with a different training focus. For example, the few snowing years Israel has will be mainly devoted to skiing and snow maneuvers, while other, non snowing years, will be dedicated to open field combat training. However, since the soldiers in the unit may stay in active duty for years and years to come, they gather much experience and expertise in this field over the years.

The main training problem that confronts the unit is that the Israeli winters rarely provide good snow conditions, suitable for intense winter training. Even the average winter in Israel may be considered as rainy summer in a European country. Therefore, the unit's personnel often travels to France and to the U.S. to train when there is insufficient snow.

These off shore travels on the state's expense, the unusual training and the unique deployment make the unit a very popular position among Israeli reserve SF personnel. However, as mentioned previously, positions in the units are mainly open for former Sayeret Golany personnel.

Cross training also take place both during the unit's off shore training travels, and on Mount Hermon itself. For example, Austria, whose troops are part of the United Nations' Disengagement Observation Forces (UNDOF) in the Golan heights, often send its Alpine unit to cross train and share tactics with the Israeli counterpart.

Deployment

The unit last saw actual combat action during the Israeli invasion to Lebanon (Operation Peace Of The Galilee) in 1982, when it was deployed in the Lebanese Shouf Mountains.



During wartime

In wartime the unit will deploy in the Mount Hermon's surroundings and will protect it from any attempt to conquer it. Also, While the unit was formed especially to protect Mount Hermon, it isn't the only place where the unit can fight. Other peaks and mountain ranges surround Mount Hermon. In a future, all out war, the unit may fight there, using their unparalleled expertise in mountain warfare.



During peacetime

Part from the training that takes most of the reserve duty time, the soldiers are also engage in routine security activities such as ambushes and patrols in the area. This activity take place in order to familiarize the reserve soldiers with the terrain, rather then actually secure the parameter, which is well guarded by other units regardless. Actual skiing is very sporadic unless it's needed for SAR or medical evacuation missions.

However, since the Israeli-Syrian border has been the quietest border since 1974, most of the unit operational tasks have been SAR missions in the Mount Hermon region, which other then its military role is also a ski and snow resort. These SAR missions usually involve wayward recreational skiing tourists that strayed from the marked ski slopes and got lost.

In extreme snow conditions, when regular soldiers, convoys and helicopters can't reach Mount Hermon's two military outposts, the unit functions as an emergency link to the posts, for example, in an emergency medical evacuation. The unit works in close cooperation with the IDF Snow Clearing unit that using heavy machinery to clear the roads to the IDF posts on the mountain, as well as to the civilian villages near by. As part of this cooperation, the unit's operators provide security and guidance for the heavy machinery.

While the main role of the unit is to be an operational unit capable of engaging combat in difficult weather conditions, another important unit's function is to train other Israeli SF units in winter conditions combat. During peace time the unit operates as the IDF Extreme Weather School and almost all of the IDF SF unit come to the school for one week extreme weather training series. Such skills are necessary due to the Israeli SF units' activity in the occasional snowing Lebanese front.

Weapons And Equipment


Due to its inherent connections to Sayeret Golany, the unit enjoys excellent top-notch equipment, much better then can be expected of an all reserve unit, who naturally don't see much action.

The unit equipment much resembles the one that can be found in any western alpine unit, including white Battle Dress Uniforms (BDU) and vests, protective eyewear and fast roping gear.

The primary weapon is the CAR15 often equipped with the El-Op Eyal X3 day optic. The Eyal, while being a old optic, is a rugged peace of equipment that saw massive usage in the IDF SF units prior to the introduction of the Trijicon ACOG 4X32 day optic in the mid 1990's.

[Argyll]

;) Nice post,some good info there
Thanks!

[citizen-k]

As far as I know today must of them come from "Egoz"... (which is also a unit from "Golani")

As for female instructors, I will ask my brother (who was a sniper in Egoz) and a female friend who is in the Israeli national sky team. I think they will know more... (who knows, we might find out he is a she after all)

[Seoulstriker]

Woman indeed.


disagree but I sure as hell like this debate over the israeli /palastinin flame wars. :D
Bo zawsze przyjemniej jest pogadać o dupie Maryni. :lol:

my parents did not teach me polish to me as a child, so i know very few polish words.

the following words are influenced by my polish friends:

Spierdalaj ty chuju. twoja mama to jest kurwa pierdolona. w dupie, ty dziewka. pierdol sie. dzienkuja. piotrusz.

[One?]

203 what kind of vests do they wear, its kind of weird seeing IDF soldeirs not wearing a recon vest variation or an Ephod.

[Vance]

That first picture definately has a woman in it...it HAS to be. Unless that guy has really feminine lips and a smile...

[UoUo]

203 what kind of vests do they wear, its kind of weird seeing IDF soldeirs not wearing a recon vest variation or an Ephod.

As the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) has a dedicated extreme weather Special Forces (SF) outfit - Unit Alpinistim - the unit had always placed a great deal of focus on camouflage. The unit also act as the IDF extreme weather warfare school passing training series including on camouflage to the IDF SF units.

[Seoulstriker]

That first picture definately has a woman in it...it HAS to be. Unless that guy has really feminine lips and a smile...

you can also see some 'bulges' in the uniform. :petting:

[admar2]

so then who is she?............Entertainment Officer ;) ?

nah, she's the MWR officer.

Morale Welfare and Recreation. :)

[IDFM203]

203 what kind of vests do they wear, its kind of weird seeing IDF soldeirs not wearing a recon vest variation or an Ephod.Yeah your right (good eye there :D ).... I really don’t know to much about alpine warfare and what specifically that unit or ones like it use. Maybe some of the members here can answer what it is.

Oh and citizen K took an excerpt from my previous post on the unit that explains a little about it.

[StarvingStudent47]

How tall is Mount Hermon? It looks pretty bare--are there any forested regions of it? In Colorado (my home state), the mountains are completely covered in pine and aspen trees until you reach treeline (often around 10,000 feet above sea level). I know these questions don't have a lot to do with military stuff, but I'm a nature and mountain junkie ;)

And just for the record, that dude has a smile like a woman, even if he isn't one. I'm not backing down on this one.

[Herrmannek]

Sory for off-topic


Woman indeed.


disagree but I sure as hell like this debate over the israeli /palastinin flame wars. :D
Bo zawsze przyjemniej jest pogadać o dupie Maryni. :lol:

my parents did not teach me polish to me as a child, so i know very few polish words.

the following words are influenced by my polish friends:

Spierdalaj ty chuju. twoja mama to jest kurwa pierdolona. w dupie, ty dziewka. pierdol sie. dzienkuja. piotrusz.

It's good for you that Hood or moderators doesn't know what you wrote there. :) Beter start learning Polish by yourself not from your polish friends(don't know why Poles are always learning swering first). If you sometimes want go to Poland try to avoid most of what you said.

dziękuję not dzienkuja means thanks
dziewka means village girl and you probably tried to say dziwka wich means whore
pietrasz not piotrusz wich means flinch

about rest, let them vanish in fog of forgetfulness...

[ShotOver]

So basically these soldiers are up there on a mountain, and training for mountain warfare just incase Syria attack from that mountain?

[citizen-k]

So basically these soldiers are up there on a mountain, and training for mountain warfare just incase Syria attack from that mountain?

In case Syria attack from that mountain during 3 month of winter which it has snow. (most of the time it has a clear weather...)

[Seoulstriker]

Sory for off-topic


Woman indeed.


disagree but I sure as hell like this debate over the israeli /palastinin flame wars. :D
Bo zawsze przyjemniej jest pogadać o dupie Maryni. :lol:

my parents did not teach me polish to me as a child, so i know very few polish words.

the following words are influenced by my polish friends:

Spierdalaj ty chuju. twoja mama to jest kurwa pierdolona. w dupie, ty dziewka. pierdol sie. dzienkuja. piotrusz.

It's good for you that Hood or moderators doesn't know what you wrote there. :) Beter start learning Polish by yourself not from your polish friends(don't know why Poles are always learning swering first). If you sometimes want go to Poland try to avoid most of what you said.

dziękuję not dzienkuja means thanks
dziewka means village girl and you probably tried to say dziwka wich means whore
pietrasz not piotrusz wich means flinch

about rest, let them vanish in fog of forgetfulness...


hey, isn't 'piotrusz' the diminutive form of 'piotr'?

[S'13]

How tall is Mount Hermon? It looks pretty bare--are there any forested regions of it? In Colorado (my home state), the mountains are completely covered in pine and aspen trees until you reach treeline (often around 10,000 feet above sea level). I know these questions don't have a lot to do with military stuff, but I'm a nature and mountain junkie[quote]


[quote]At 9,200 feet above sea level, Mount Hermon is the highest mountain in Israel, Lebanon, and Syria.

The mountain is actually a cluster of mountains with three distinct summits, each about the same height. This cluster, the Anti-Lebanon Range, extends for approximately twenty miles in a northeast to southwest direction, running parallel to the Lebanon range on the west. Runoff from the snow-covered mountain’s western and southern bases feeds several streams and rivers. These merge to become the Jordan River. Additionally, the runoff facilitates fertile plant life below the snow line, where vineyards and pine, oak, and poplar trees are abundant.

Mount Hermon is called the "gray-haired mountain," or the "mountain of snow," because of the covering of snow, which is present on it most of the year.


source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main+Page

[alexjulian]

I read somewhere that the Israeli Alpine unit is/was trained by a Norwegian or a Swede....Is it true? I suppose would certainly make sense.

[aktarian]

So basically these soldiers are up there on a mountain, and training for mountain warfare just incase Syria attack from that mountain?

There's snow in Lebanon (Antilebanon mountains?). I rember reading Damscus-Beirut highway is sometimes closed due to snow.

Where were those pics taken?

Why don't they paint their rifles in white? Better for camouflage.

Regarding best alpine units. What about Indian and Pakistani? They have some practical experience, not to mention highest-altitude battlefield/deployment zone.

To go OT a bit. I thought that for hiding in snow it's better to have white with some other colours mixed in instead of pure white. I like German cammo pattern with green blotches.

[IDFM203]

So basically these soldiers are up there on a mountain, and training for mountain warfare just incase Syria attack from that mountain?

There's snow in Lebanon (Antilebanon mountains?). I rember reading Damscus-Beirut highway is sometimes closed due to snow.

Where were those pics taken?

Why don't they paint their rifles in white? Better for camouflage.

Regarding best alpine units. What about Indian and Pakistani? They have some practical experience, not to mention highest-altitude battlefield/deployment zone.

To go OT a bit. I thought that for hiding in snow it's better to have white with some other colours mixed in instead of pure white. I like German cammo pattern with green blotches.good question with regards to the white rifles...I dont know why?!? perhps because of the short snow season?

or perhps they have that just not in these pictures..

and lastly perhaps you ansered your question with your last statement with regards to the rifles being of a differnt colour :D :roll: :D

[aktarian]

and lastly perhaps you ansered your question with your last statement with regards to the rifles being of a differnt colour :D :roll: :D

I was refering to white suits/smocks/overclothes with small green blotches or few black stripes, not black rifles against white background ;)

[IDFM203]

and lastly perhaps you ansered your question with your last statement with regards to the rifles being of a differnt colour :D :roll: :D

I was refering to white suits/smocks/overclothes with small green blotches or few black stripes, not black rifles against white background ;)yeah I know but I was just having fun with that statement as if thats the reason (even though I know its not)..or is it?!? perhaps ;) :D :roll:

[aktarian]

I was refering to this cammo

http://www.battlefront.com/resources/poc/_poc_images/full/westgerman5.jpg

[IDFM203]

I was refering to this cammo

http://www.battlefront.com/resources/poc/_poc_images/full/westgerman5.jpgI am interested.....do you have a pic of a soldier in full gear with that camo?!?

[citizen-k]

and lastly perhaps you ansered your question with your last statement with regards to the rifles being of a differnt colour :D :roll: :D

I was refering to white suits/smocks/overclothes with small green blotches or few black stripes, not black rifles against white background ;)

Who cares?

I want to know why don't they have white watch-covers?!?!? rofl

[AirZone]

and lastly perhaps you ansered your question with your last statement with regards to the rifles being of a differnt colour :D :roll: :D

I was refering to white suits/smocks/overclothes with small green blotches or few black stripes, not black rifles against white background ;)

Who cares?

I want to know why don't they have white watch-covers?!?!? rofl

rofl rofl rofl
good one :hug:

[Argyll]

Now that is funny!!! rofl

[aktarian]

I am interested.....do you have a pic of a soldier in full gear with that camo?!?
http://www.gebirgsjager.de/Bilder/wehrd/albumbilder/b057_jpg.jpg
http://www.gebirgsjager.de/Bilder/wehrd/albumbilder/b007_jpg.jpg
http://www.gebirgsjager.de/Bilder/wehrd/albumbilder/b013_jpg.jpg
http://www.gebirgsjager.de/Bilder/wehrd/albumbilder/b011_jpg.jpg
http://www.gebjgbtl233.de/img/galelry/winter2.jpg
http://www.gebjgbtl233.de/img/galelry/winter1.jpg
http://www.gebjgbtl233.de/img/galelry/winter3.jpg
http://www.gebjgbtl233.de/img/galelry/winter4.jpg

[One?]

Correction: Mt Hermon is not the highest summit in lebanon :)


And the mountain is covered with snow for a long time, from the lebanese side there are some to no trees.


And the Syrians had a large hand to hand combat with the IDF on the mountain so I guess that is why they have unit. Not only the IDF but all the armies of the world have units trained in mountain warfare.

[Royal]

Not only the IDF but all the armies of the world have units trained in mountain warfare.

The Maldives Defence Force being a particularly good example, what with the entire country being 3m above sea level (max). ;)

[StarvingStudent47]

Regarding best alpine units. What about Indian and Pakistani? They have some practical experience, not to mention highest-altitude battlefield/deployment zone.


I don't know about that. While both sides have a lot of experience because of the whole Kashmir conflict, I haven't seen anything dramatic going on up there. It seems like more of a stagnant bloodbath. If one side had the best alpine troops in the world, I'd expect a solid victory for that side.

[StarvingStudent47]

Not only the IDF but all the armies of the world have units trained in mountain warfare.

The Maldives Defence Force being a particularly good example, what with the entire country being 3m above sea level (max). ;)

Well, you never know when they'd have to launch a unilateral invasion of Andorra, and they'd need some mountain troops for that. Thinking ahead is never bad ;)

[Andyman]

I am a level 2 snowboard instructor in the Canadian Association of Snowboard Instructors and a Level 1 Ski instructor from the Canadian Ski Instructors Alliance. I can't possibly imagine firing a rifle while trying to ski down a hill. I mean your balance would go all out of whack, and what if you fell, holy ****. Anyways the pics were pretty cool.

[Ichhabe]

Not only the IDF but all the armies of the world have units trained in mountain warfare.

The Maldives Defence Force being a particularly good example, what with the entire country being 3m above sea level (max). ;)

Royal!!!! Shame on you x 1000. You almost choked me on that reply. Could not stop laughing before after about 5 minutes....

[martinexsquaddie]

best mountain troop got to be india pakistan mountain troop as they are fighting in the himalaya's most pointless battle in history at height where you need oxygen puts alaska and norway to shame sorry guys

[Adri]

best mountain troop got to be india pakistan mountain troop as they are fighting in the himalaya's most pointless battle in history at height where you need oxygen puts alaska and norway to shame sorry guys

you should be sorry on your self for giving me an good reason to belive that some children have invaded this forum.

1) india and pakistan don't have the money or equitment

2) they have poor training......

they will probably die if they where put in an norvegian/canadian/russian military training, but we all know that it would only end in an endless discution between norvegians,canadians and russian over wich country how have the best exstreme cold weather military force in the world....but it is not india or pakistan :lol:

[Royal]

Adri, as a Royal Marine for most of the past 2 decades, I've spent more than my fair share of time in Norway. I have a great deal of respect for your troops (& not just the Jager), and I've been in some pretty ****ty weather there.

Like it or not, even somewhere like the Lyngen Alps you do not have the altuitude encountered in the Kashmir.

They have plenty of money to throw into the area (if there wasn't they wouldn't be able to sustain any kind of Ops there). They may not have the latest titanium and GoreTex gear, but it's good enough for the job.

As to training, I would say that it's certainly on a par with Russias and to say that units such as the Gurkhas couldn't hack training with any western conventional unit is just plain insulting :bash:

[Ichhabe]

best mountain troop got to be india pakistan mountain troop as they are fighting in the himalaya's most pointless battle in history at height where you need oxygen puts alaska and norway to shame sorry guys

Actually, I do agree on that. Was to put that up here myself.

Even thought Norway has one of the best... I do think that India and Pakistan has a bit more experience than us.

And Adri, don't come up with the Norwegian SOF in Afghanistan. India and Pakistan have had this battle at the top of these mountains even before our fathers grew pubic hairs.

[aktarian]

best mountain troop got to be india pakistan mountain troop as they are fighting in the himalaya's most pointless battle in history at height where you need oxygen puts alaska and norway to shame sorry guys

you should be sorry on your self for giving me an good reason to belive that some children have invaded this forum.

1) india and pakistan don't have the money or equitment

2) they have poor training......

they will probably die if they where put in an norvegian/canadian/russian military training, but we all know that it would only end in an endless discution between norvegians,canadians and russian over wich country how have the best exstreme cold weather military force in the world....but it is not india or pakistan :lol:

Siachen glacier is world's highest altitude battlefield. For almost 2 decades India and Pakistan maintain positions there and have low-level, but regular fighting. Indians enjoy higher ground, Pakistanisn enjoy better communications. Both sides had to adapt training and equipment to suit this battlefield. While Norway, Canada and Russia have areas with extremes of temperature they lack areas with high altitude. Alipne warfare isn't just abut cold, it's also about oxygene.

[martinexsquaddie]

it has to be the maddest and most pointless battlefield if one side quit the other would only own a galcier bugger all pratical use

[He219]

Speaking of the Siachen Glacier....

http://wwwi.*******.com/images/mdf382502.jpg

Indian army soldiers muster at their base camp after coming back from training at Siachen Glacier, October 4, 2003. For 18 years, Pakistani and Indian soldiers have clung to Siachen, which lies north of the end of the Line of Control dividing disputed Kashmir (news - web sites), and just below the border with China. Siachen sits at an altitude of over 17,000 feet. (Pawel Kopczynski/*******)

Story Here (http://www.*******.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3617666).

http://members.rogers.com/pakistandefence/arm1.jpg

Nice pic's Here (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/9305/s.htm).

Into thin air (http://users.senet.com.au/~wingman/siachen.html)

There is also the ski resort at Malam Jabba.... ;)

[Adri]

okey okey okey ! :roll:

but that again, yes it is maby higher up in the sky, however we can say it like this:

in norway the norvegian would win.
in canada the canadians would win.
in russia the russians would win.
in kashmir (or what that place is called..) the indians/pakistanians would win.

but that again: tibet (now under china) don't have the best exstreme cold weather force.....DOH! they don't have an army at all.....

and again: how cold can it be in kasmhir (or what it is....) ? I know that Sibir is the coldes place on earth, and holdes the recorde of minus 84 (celsius)

[One?]

but that again: tibet (now under china) don't have the best exstreme cold weather force.....DOH! they don't have an army at all.....


Don't the british have a special tibetan unit that is trained to fight in high altitude mountain terrain?

I don't know the unit's name ( I saw a documentary on it) and I believe they were deployed in afghanistan too.

[Royal]

Don't the british have a special tibetan unit that is trained to fight in high altitude mountain terrain?

I don't know the unit's name ( I saw a documentary on it) and I believe they were deployed in afghanistan too.

You're thinking of the Gurkhas - who are from Nepal not Tibet. They are not a 'special' unit, they are line infantry (although very good line infantry), and they have no mountain role (for some reason), their forte is jungle warfare.

They have been deployed in all major Ops (apart from Northern Ireland) over the last 25 years or so. The Indian army also has Gurkha units.

[aktarian]

and again: how cold can it be in kasmhir (or what it is....) ? I know that Sibir is the coldes place on earth, and holdes the recorde of minus 84 (celsius)

At Siachen -20 to -60 (Celsius) with 80+ km/h wind and average 10m snow/year.

For those claiming this is not important battlefield:
-Pakistanis claim Indians use 30-40.000 arty shells/year, Pakistani cnsumption is likelly about same.
-So far India lost some 2.000 killed and some 10.000 wounded. Of which 3% were caused by Pakistani fire.
-To maintain garisson at Siachen (brigade or therabouts) costs Indians $1,17 mio. Each day. To maintain similar sized garissoncosts Pakistanis $32.000. Each day.
-Due to terrain outposts are held by sections, seldom by platoons. As terrain prevents mutual support they must be able to survive on their own for longer time.
-Arty pices are there in larger numbers than in regular units
-Thin air affects accuracy and forced both sides to adjust their targeting tables. However swiftlly changing conditions decrease accuracy even further.

[martinexsquaddie]

yes but what the hell are they fighting over its the Himalayas its not like you could invade either country by that route. Even the Sas would balk at trying to infilttrate by that route. Theres no minerals or any land worth holding its compeletly pointless

[aktarian]

yes but what the hell are they fighting over its the Himalayas its not like you could invade either country by that route. Even the Sas would balk at trying to infilttrate by that route. Theres no minerals or any land worth holding its compeletly pointless

Indians likelly made their move to make Pakistani land transport with China more difficult (Karokorum highway/pass), Pakistanis then countered Indian move.