View Full Version : Bush 'Undermining UN with Aid Coalition'
BlackRain
12-30-2004, 02:22 PM
Bush 'Undermining UN with Aid Coalition'
While the United Nations Fiddles, Rome Burns.
United States President George Bush was tonight accused of trying to undermine the United Nations by setting up a rival coalition to coordinate relief following the Asian tsunami disaster.
The president has announced that the US, Japan, India and Australia would coordinate the world’s response.
But former International Development Secretary Clare Short said that role should be left to the UN.
“I think this initiative from America to set up four countries claiming to coordinate sounds like yet another attempt to undermine the UN when it is the best system we have got and the one that needs building up,” she said.
“Only really the UN can do that job,” she told BBC Radio Four’s PM programme.
“It is the only body that has the moral authority - (Guess she never heard about Rwanda, Sudan, Congo, Ivory Coast, etc). But it can only do it well if it is backed up by the authority of the great powers.”
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/contentimages/short_web.jpg
Ms Short said the coalition countries did not have good records on responding to international disasters. <More USA bashing.>
She said the US was “very bad at coordinating with anyone” and India had its own problems to deal with. <More anti-USA rhetoric>
“I don’t know what that is about but it sounds very much, I am afraid, like the US trying to have a separate operation and not work with the rest of the world through the UN system,” she added.
---------------
The United Nations has not even left the building yet to go the stricken while the US military has already landed and provided food, water, and medicine. Now, you know why there is much love for these United Nations when their officials attack the USA at every turn.
The UN is planning a meeting with donors and other countries to discuss the relief effort for tsunami victims around the Indian Ocean, possibly next week, the UN official coordinating the aid operation said.
Margareta Wahlstrom, the UN's tsunami aid coordinator, said there would be a meeting after the United Nations launches a revised appeal for the countries stricken by the deadliest natural disaster in decades.
Next week to "discuss" relief efforts?
fantassin
12-30-2004, 02:24 PM
The US created the UN; learn to live with your creation.
The US created the UN; learn to live with your creation.
I've seen enough horror movies to know that when you create a monster, it's your duty to destroy it. :backhand:
radon
12-30-2004, 02:44 PM
(Guess she never heard about Rwanda, Sudan, Congo, Ivory Coast, etc)
Everyone knows how Un sucks and is just a discussion club until someone decides to do something about something. Dissolving the UN means there is not a UN to blame if something could have been done about it. Getting rid of the Un makes externalization of blame harder.
But why is the Un then such a failure ?
BlackRain
12-30-2004, 03:01 PM
It appears the USA is forming a coalition to get aid and supplies to suffering masses because it does not trust the United Nations to do it.
The United Nations "Oil For Food" scandal redirected $21 billion meant for Iraqi's and gave it to Saddam.
Now, several days after this natural disaster the UN has yet to do anything with pre-existing AID budget or new incoming money. The UN reps have only planned to have a meeting next week.
Sadly, these folks can't wait for the UN to act and must rely on quick action by the US colaltion and NGO's.
Bluezoo
12-30-2004, 03:20 PM
Who cares if the US forms a coalition. People die in Asia by the hundreds everyday! If US can deliver the needed aid quicker than the UN , then fine! People in Indonesia (Banda Aceh particularly), Thailand and Sri Lanka are the most affected in this Tsunami, and every day that is wasted because of the red tape in the UN or its hate of the US will NOT feed the hungry, bring medicine to the sick and water to the thirsty. UN and Ms. Short can **** each other and shove it!
BlackRain
12-30-2004, 07:39 PM
This United Nations employee is the one who brought us this:
Fury as Short compares Iraq rebels to Resistance
By George Jones, Political Editor
(Filed: 06/10/2004)
Clare Short, the former international development secretary, sparked outrage last night by comparing Arab insurgents in Iraq to the French resistance of the Second World War.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/06/nshort06.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/06/ixhome.html
username
12-30-2004, 11:10 PM
Ohhh not again. Again people fail to understand what the UN is. It's as if people have been brainwashed into thinking the UN is some group of people from the moon. The UN is a reprasentative body of nations. If someone claims the UN failed, they are claiming it's memeber countries failed THIS INCULDES THE USA. One of the UN's jobs is provide assistance in these situations. The countries pool thier resources and from that have a better chance at success.
username
12-30-2004, 11:18 PM
The US created the UN; learn to live with your creation.
I've seen enough horror movies to know that when you create a monster, it's your duty to destroy it. :backhand:
You calling the UN a monster? The UN is not a monster, where it has succeed it is because it's member nations allowed it to. Where it fail it is because it's member nations allowed it to.
fantassin the UN is not a independant entity, it's existance relys upon it's member nations. Start taking responsibility for your actions, stop blaiming the UN for every problem under the sun. The UN can be used as a tool for the greater good(e.g. helping in this situation). If it fails, you have failed.
username
12-30-2004, 11:24 PM
Who cares if the US forms a coalition. People die in Asia by the hundreds everyday! If US can deliver the needed aid quicker than the UN , then fine! People in Indonesia (Banda Aceh particularly), Thailand and Sri Lanka are the most affected in this Tsunami, and every day that is wasted because of the red tape in the UN or its hate of the US will NOT feed the hungry, bring medicine to the sick and water to the thirsty. UN and Ms. Short can f*** each other and shove it!
The US cannot deliver aid quicker than the UN it's logically impossible. IF the UN gave aid it would be Aid from the US(a member nation of the UN) it's the same aid just under a different banner. Co-ordinated with aid from thoer countries.
When the US undermines the UN it is undermining world democracy. The US is removing democracy and administering an authoritarian dictatorship, which will lead to a totalitarian dictatorship.
Opening Batsman
12-30-2004, 11:34 PM
I notice that the US takes all of the criticism for this while Australia, Japan and India recieve none. :P
As far as I can see, the four countries have done heaps of good while the UN has done nothing at all. They would have legitimate criticism if they had organised an effort with all of its members. But it didn't, which is why we have to take it upon ourselves.
Of course, there is the added politics for us to help out Indonesia and I am sure the US, India (maybe Japan) also has similar interests. But rest assured, that is not the primary reason for it. ;)
usa320
12-31-2004, 12:12 AM
The US cannot deliver aid quicker than the UN it's logically impossible
Hate to piss all over your fire, but aid from the US run coalition is already pouring in. US Military forces are being redeployed as we speak to provide humantiarian aid to the region.
The UN on the other hand had a meeting this morning to discuss money, and they will have another principles meeting next week before taking any real action to help the people in need in S.E. Asia.
Bottom line is, the US took the initiative NOT to undermind the UN, but to help as many people as we possibly can, because its become clear that the UN will not in any decent time frame. These people need food and fresh water now, not next ****ing week.
username
12-31-2004, 02:32 AM
I notice that the US takes all of the criticism for this while Australia, Japan and India recieve none. :P
As far as I can see, the four countries have done heaps of good while the UN has done nothing at all. They would have legitimate criticism if they had organised an effort with all of its members. But it didn't, which is why we have to take it upon ourselves.
Of course, there is the added politics for us to help out Indonesia and I am sure the US, India (maybe Japan) also has similar interests. But rest assured, that is not the primary reason for it. ;)
Japan, India and Australia are just as bad. Auzzzie you say the UN has done nothing. Even though they have, lets just assume that they havent for a moment.
Why did the UN do nothing, because it's member nations did nothing. You like certain other members of this forum seem to have this vivd dislusion that the UN is some country up in the clouds.
Let me say this again:
THE UN IS NOT A COUNTRY UP IN THE CLOUDS, IT IS A ORGANIZATION MADE UP OF MEMBER NATIONS. The UN can only do what it's member nations allow. Think about this. If there was a civil war in some hypotetical country and the UN does nothing...why is this? It is because it's member nations refused to do anthing about it.
THIS INCLUDES THE USA, INDIA, JAPAN and AUSTRALIA. If the UN did fail on this account it is because the USA, INDIA, JAPAN and AUSTRALIA failed.
username
12-31-2004, 02:36 AM
The US cannot deliver aid quicker than the UN it's logically impossible
Hate to piss all over your fire, but aid from the US run coalition is already pouring in. US Military forces are being redeployed as we speak to provide humantiarian aid to the region.
The UN on the other hand had a meeting this morning to discuss money, and they will have another principles meeting next week before taking any real action to help the people in need in S.E. Asia.
Bottom line is, the US took the initiative NOT to undermind the UN, but to help as many people as we possibly can, because its become clear that the UN will not in any decent time frame. These people need food and fresh water now, not next f*** week.
UNICEF is on the ground contributing already. UNICEF is a part of the UN. This you have either clearly failed to notice. Here your are just plain wrong.
Secondly te UN works at the speed that it's memeber nations allow it to. So whatever speed the UN can do something is the same speed, any of it's member nations are which includes the US. Again you are just plain wrong.
Opening Batsman
12-31-2004, 03:02 AM
I notice that the US takes all of the criticism for this while Australia, Japan and India recieve none. :P
As far as I can see, the four countries have done heaps of good while the UN has done nothing at all. They would have legitimate criticism if they had organised an effort with all of its members. But it didn't, which is why we have to take it upon ourselves.
Of course, there is the added politics for us to help out Indonesia and I am sure the US, India (maybe Japan) also has similar interests. But rest assured, that is not the primary reason for it. ;)
Japan, India and Australia are just as bad. Auzzzie you say the UN has done nothing. Even though they have, lets just assume that they havent for a moment.
Why did the UN do nothing, because it's member nations did nothing. You like certain other members of this forum seem to have this vivd dislusion that the UN is some country up in the clouds.
Let me say this again:
THE UN IS NOT A COUNTRY UP IN THE CLOUDS, IT IS A ORGANIZATION MADE UP OF MEMBER NATIONS. The UN can only do what it's member nations allow. Think about this. If there was a civil war in some hypotetical country and the UN does nothing...why is this? It is because it's member nations refused to do anthing about it.
THIS INCLUDES THE USA, INDIA, JAPAN and AUSTRALIA. If the UN did fail on this account it is because the USA, INDIA, JAPAN and AUSTRALIA failed.
No sh|t, Sherlock! Jeez, did you have to do a degree to work out that the UN is not independant? But what do you think the UN is there for, Einstein? It has to organize the nations and use the resources with everybody co-operating. It is not the responsibility of individual nations to come forward and organize it. That is what Kofi & co. are for! And what the hell are you saying that US, India, Japan and Australia failed for? As far as I can see, they are the four countries doing the most! The UN has to immediately take action, not hold a meeting to decide when to hold a meeting to determine if they will hold a meeting next bloody week! If the coalition (and everybody else helping) had not taken immediate action, how many more people would be dead because of starvation and lack of clean drinking water, dying of injuries that would normally be fixed easily? Look further than your own nose!
rajkhalsa
12-31-2004, 04:34 AM
Who cares if the US forms a coalition. People die in Asia by the hundreds everyday! If US can deliver the needed aid quicker than the UN , then fine! People in Indonesia (Banda Aceh particularly), Thailand and Sri Lanka are the most affected in this Tsunami, and every day that is wasted because of the red tape in the UN or its hate of the US will NOT feed the hungry, bring medicine to the sick and water to the thirsty. UN and Ms. Short can f*** each other and shove it!
Hear hear
BigBaribal
12-31-2004, 05:50 AM
Of course, everybody knows that US aid is free of charge :roll:
Mailman
12-31-2004, 05:56 AM
Clare Short eh...the same moron who said she could understand why terrorists do what they do! :roll:
She should have stayed a secondary school teacher...which she is ideally suited for! rofl
Mailman
Bluezoo
12-31-2004, 10:45 AM
Who cares if the US forms a coalition. People die in Asia by the hundreds everyday! If US can deliver the needed aid quicker than the UN , then fine! People in Indonesia (Banda Aceh particularly), Thailand and Sri Lanka are the most affected in this Tsunami, and every day that is wasted because of the red tape in the UN or its hate of the US will NOT feed the hungry, bring medicine to the sick and water to the thirsty. UN and Ms. Short can f*** each other and shove it!
The US cannot deliver aid quicker than the UN it's logically impossible. IF the UN gave aid it would be Aid from the US(a member nation of the UN) it's the same aid just under a different banner. Co-ordinated with aid from thoer countries.
When the US undermines the UN it is undermining world democracy. The US is removing democracy and administering an authoritarian dictatorship, which will lead to a totalitarian dictatorship.
The problem with some people here is that they are more worried about the POLITICAL CORRECTNESS of things than reality! You know what, I am Asian and I don't give a damn! Talk is cheap. Who is underming UN or what have you DOES NOT matter for as long as the aid comes in these affected places soon. You can argue about who gave what to who AFTER the victims have received the aid. The tragic thing about the UN and Ms. Short is that they claim to have the MORAL highground when they pontificate that only the UN should be handling aid, when some individuals deem it better if they could give by themselves personally without going through all the fuss!
Mark Sman
12-31-2004, 11:32 AM
DOES NOT matter for as long as the aid comes in these affected places soon.
Exactly.
Also, the mentioned countries have a right to form what associations they think appropriate. Last I checked, all the nations mentioned are members of multiple different groups inside and outside the UN.
What is forming is an adhoc logisitcs org that will attempt to minimize doubling of effort and provide the necessary suplly and expertise.
Not mentioned are the other regional powers who are already acting on the ground. Some of these forces have no unified international communications structure to coordinate with. Hopefully an effective overall command and coordination system can be setup.
OT - Interesting to see some of the completely non-helpful rhetoric spouted by folks at times like this. True colors shining through. Some folks will lead from the front, others are in the rear with the beer.
Satyr
12-31-2004, 12:23 PM
The U.N. is Gods way to stop overpopulation
BlackRain
12-31-2004, 01:17 PM
Where you might ask is the head of the United Nations, Kofi Anan, during this humanitarian crisis?
Well, he has been in Jackson Hole, Wyoming on a Sking Trip since Christmas.
No need to hurry there Kofi, the UN is formally going have a meeting on aid to the victims until next week in Europe.
Ichhabe
12-31-2004, 01:34 PM
Where you might ask is the head of the United Nations, Kofi Anan, during this humanitarian crisis?
Well, he has been in Jackson Hole, Wyoming on a Sking Trip since Christmas.
No need to hurry there Kofi, the UN is formally going have a meeting on aid to the victims until next week in Europe.
Weird, I was sure he was on George's ranch for the holidays. Cause there is George when on one of his 20 vaccations a year. :D
BlackRain
01-01-2005, 09:52 AM
Kofi's Explanation for his Ski Trip
Q: Mr. Secretary, picking up on Richard’s question, I think a lot of people are asking exactly why you waited three days on vacation in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, before you decided to fly back to New York in the face of this extraordinary crisis. Could you give us a full explanation of your thinking on that? Secondly, what kind of signal does that 72-hour delay send to the nations to which you are now appealing for greater help?
SG: First of all, there was action. It wasn’t inaction. We live in a world where you can operate from wherever you are. You know the world we live in now. You don’t have to be physically here to be dealing with the leaders and the Governments I have been dealing with. You don’t have to be physically here to be discussing with some of the agencies that we have done.
I came back here because we have reached a level that I wanted to have meetings with all the people that I have met with today. So, we have taken action. And I don’t have to be sitting in my office to take action. I think the same goes for you in your profession.
http://www.un.org/apps/sg/offthecuff.asp?nid=660
---
President Bush may have been in Crawford Texas for Christmas 'on vacaction' but he has done more in this crisis then anyone else in the disaster response.
achilles
01-01-2005, 10:08 AM
It appears the USA is forming a coalition to get aid and supplies to suffering masses because it does not trust the United Nations to do it.
When was the last time you compared the US and UN humanitarian relief record? ;) But oh god i forgot...the UN did nothing for Rwanda...gosh, what did the USA do?
The United Nations "Oil For Food" scandal redirected $21 billion meant for Iraqi's and gave it to Saddam.
Did you ask **** Cheney if he ever gave a **** about that? Like it or not....you are part of the scandal blackrain...even more the guy that you revoted as your vice president :D
Now, several days after this natural disaster the UN has yet to do anything with pre-existing AID budget or new incoming money. The UN reps have only planned to have a meeting next week.
Sadly, these folks can't wait for the UN to act and must rely on quick action by the US colaltion and NGO's.
*yawn*
achilles
01-01-2005, 10:11 AM
Where you might ask is the head of the United Nations, Kofi Anan, during this humanitarian crisis?
Well, he has been in Jackson Hole, Wyoming on a Sking Trip since Christmas.
No need to hurry there Kofi, the UN is formally going have a meeting on aid to the victims until next week in Europe.
Weird, I was sure he was on George's ranch for the holidays. Cause there is George when on one of his 20 vaccations a year. :D
you dont know what you re talking about...its 17 ;)
Weasel
01-01-2005, 10:29 AM
Where you might ask is the head of the United Nations, Kofi Anan, during this humanitarian crisis?
Well, he has been in Jackson Hole, Wyoming on a Sking Trip since Christmas.
No need to hurry there Kofi, the UN is formally going have a meeting on aid to the victims until next week in Europe.
Weird, I was sure he was on George's ranch for the holidays. Cause there is George when on one of his 20 vaccations a year. :D
you dont know what you re talking about...its 17 ;)
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Its interesting, we are all members of the UN. So when we do criticise the UN we criticise our own governments..and rightfully so.
But its funny to read people criticising the UN in one breath and telling us how the sun shines out the asses of there own governments.
Some people have got reality issues. p-)
Oddbod
01-02-2005, 02:21 PM
Clare Short has had a problem with her connection to the real world for some time.
The UN ceased to be an effective Organisation as its remit expanded & the petty Beaurocrats took hold.
It is incapable of immediate & decisive action, as has been shown many times in the recent past.
There are several conflicts & humanitarian crises ongoing right now, that could have been averted or halted by rapid decisions & forceful action.
The rapid actions of the US, UK & other major powers are far more certain to save lives than the deliberations at the UN as to what is needed.
Weasel
01-02-2005, 02:43 PM
The rapid actions of the US, UK & other major powers are far more certain to save lives than the deliberations at the UN as to what is needed.
How many lives US and UK have saved in Iraq?
;)
Howitz
01-02-2005, 02:58 PM
How many lives US and UK have saved in Iraq?
;)
We'll never know, how is that even related?
;)
BlackRain
01-02-2005, 03:26 PM
How many lives US and UK have saved in Iraq?
;)
We'll never know, how is that even related?
;)
Don't worry about him, he uses "Nazi Logic™"
Weasel
01-02-2005, 03:55 PM
How many lives US and UK have saved in Iraq?
;)
We'll never know, how is that even related?
;)
Don't worry about him, he uses "Nazi Logic™"
http://www.cheesebuerger.net/images/smilie/frech/d040.gif
the UN official in blackrain's avatar was asked if the US' aid coalition was help or hinderence, he said it was great. Ignore blackrain he's just grumpy
How many lives US and UK have saved in Iraq?
;)
We'll never know, how is that even related?
;)
Don't worry about him, he uses "Nazi Logic™"
@ blackrain: brilliant :)
@ weasel: sad, sad, sad :(
saying weasel uses nazi logic is like saying KKK logic
DarkCypher
01-02-2005, 06:04 PM
Look at it this way Australia, Japan, and India chose to join this US coalition. They could have gone with the UN, but they went with the US instead.
If the U.N doesn't like it, then that's there problem.
Its interesting, we are all members of the UN. So when we do criticise the UN we criticise our own governments..and rightfully so.
But its funny to read people criticising the UN in one breath and telling us how the sun shines out the asses of there own governments.
That's pulled out a lot here by certain folks. ;)
It would be great if the UN were simply an international discussion forum, where it was only the member nations coming together to discuss policy. But that is not the case, and I think you know that. ;) The UN has a leadership that is independent of the member nations, and many times that is what is being critiqued. So let's stop these straw-man "you are critiquing yourselves" arguments, alright? ;)
It just does not float with reality. :D
Opening Batsman
01-02-2005, 07:16 PM
Its interesting, we are all members of the UN. So when we do criticise the UN we criticise our own governments..and rightfully so.
But its funny to read people criticising the UN in one breath and telling us how the sun shines out the asses of there own governments.
That's pulled out a lot here by certain folks. ;)
It would be great if the UN were simply an international discussion forum, where it was only the member nations coming together to discuss policy. But that is not the case, and I think you know that. ;) The UN has a leadership that is independent of the member nations, and many times that is what is being critiqued. So let's stop these straw-man "you are critiquing yourselves" arguments, alright? ;)
It just does not float with reality. :D
Amen. :)
Look at it this way Australia, Japan, and India chose to join this US coalition. They could have gone with the UN, but they went with the US instead.
If the U.N doesn't like it, then that's there problem.
that's the point, the UN are happy about the US aid effort, all that stuff about that UN being against it is rediculous
Clare Short is a troll. IMO she was just looking to start a flame war on mp.net
Clare Short is a troll. IMO she was just looking to start a flame war on mp.net
well said
Its interesting, we are all members of the UN. So when we do criticise the UN we criticise our own governments..and rightfully so.
But its funny to read people criticising the UN in one breath and telling us how the sun shines out the asses of there own governments.
That's pulled out a lot here by certain folks. ;)
It would be great if the UN were simply an international discussion forum, where it was only the member nations coming together to discuss policy. But that is not the case, and I think you know that. ;) The UN has a leadership that is independent of the member nations, and many times that is what is being critiqued. So let's stop these straw-man "you are critiquing yourselves" arguments, alright? ;)
It just does not float with reality. :D
not just a leader but the whole organisation is nationally independent, doesn't mean they are the ones with the power, they can't do anything without a majority vote or an article in a treaty permitting it. Why aren't they reacting quicker? Because they can't simple as that world powers and especially the superpower would not allow an autonomous organisation that much power.. SHAM is right, it comes back to our governments... But then that is why are governments are sending aid and the people are too... I don't know why your complaining about the UN everything is doing what it is supposed to.
not just a leader but the whole organisation is nationally independent, doesn't mean they are the ones with the power, they can't do anything without a majority vote or an article in a treaty permitting it. Why aren't they reacting quicker? Because they can't simple as that world powers and especially the superpower would not allow an autonomous organisation that much power.. SHAM is right, it comes back to our governments... But then that is why are governments are sending aid and the people are too... I don't know why your complaining about the UN everything is doing what it is supposed to.
I wasn't complaining about the UN. ;) I was complaining about SHAM's complaining against those complaining against the UN. :lol:
not just a leader but the whole organisation is nationally independent, doesn't mean they are the ones with the power, they can't do anything without a majority vote or an article in a treaty permitting it. Why aren't they reacting quicker? Because they can't simple as that world powers and especially the superpower would not allow an autonomous organisation that much power.. SHAM is right, it comes back to our governments... But then that is why are governments are sending aid and the people are too... I don't know why your complaining about the UN everything is doing what it is supposed to.
I wasn't complaining about the UN. ;) I was complaining about SHAM's complaining against those complaining against the UN. :lol:
that's cool, I was just complaining about you complaining about SHAM's complaining against those complaining against the UN. :D
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.