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Ngati Tumatauenga
12-31-2004, 06:23 PM
I came across this on LightFighter.net.


Huwijah, Iraq

There has been a misconception that there are no real shooters here in AO West, and that there is alot of Israli corner clearing, and pointing and clicking on the part of the insurgence. On July 29th, the locals in Huwijah proved us wrong.
On an IO mission into the city, a soldier was shot in the back of the back of the head while pulling security outside his vehicle. The HMMV was parked in a city street, flanked by 2 and 3 story buildings for about 6 blocks. The other soldiers from his stick did not here the report, but the round entered his skull and penetrated his cheeck below the left orbit, leading me to believe it was a high-powered, hot load; most likley AP. I say this because the wound was relatively clean.
The previous week, a Terp. was hit (also a head shot) while riding in the back of a HMMV moving 35 MPH. In both cases, the victims were wearing MITCH Helmets, and IBA.
The point? After the msot recent incident, we deployed a sniper team during hours of darkness. Due to the urban setting, we did several feint drops, in order to help mask their true hide sight. The gunner and the spotter were the two most experienced in our unit. They sat in their hide with 4 hour commo windows, and did not raise above their cover for anything. Thirteen hours later, the team was told to break down and move to the PZ. No more than 1 minute after the spotter got up to pull back, they recieved 2 shots, once again with no report, which both hit the rooftop in betweent them. They could not fix the POO.
Whoever is there is trained, and disciplined. Our team got a reality check, and there is a finite gun game going on in that city. The fact that he missed his shots baffles me as much as the fact that he waited out these two scouts for as long as he did. How he detected them in the first place...
A dismount patrol a few days ago turned up a singal cardboard box that carried some 7.62 match grade ammo. Unfortunately, I did not get the specs from that find, but I did here it was not NATO.
I personally have survived IED, and RPG attacks, but the thought of a well trained sniper stocking the streets, puts a little skidmark in my shorts. Any other experience like this?

I've heard several anecdotes over the last year of highly professional insurgent shooters at work throughout Iraq. One in particular related to a Syrian SF team(s) sent to Fallujah some months ago in response to the effect USMC Scout/Snipers were having on insurgent activity in that city.

It just goes to show that there are other Armed Forces out there that train certain elements of their forces to a standard that can match western forces, man for man.

Something to think about.

moughoun
12-31-2004, 06:41 PM
sound's,if you'll pardon the pun, like he's using a suppressed weapon, (no report), not the usual kit of the guy on the street toting an ak, :| , although I agree if he missed that does seem strange, one to watch and study, I think

oldsoak
12-31-2004, 07:15 PM
Not good - we in the west seem to have sold a lot of weaponry to "friends" and boy is it coming back to us.
:(

Ngati Tumatauenga
12-31-2004, 07:54 PM
moughoun wrote,
sound's,if you'll pardon the pun, like he's using a suppressed weapon, (no report), not the usual kit of the guy on the street toting an ak, , although I agree if he missed that does seem strange, one to watch and study, I think

Yeah, but even the best have their bad days. ;) I've seen Queens medalists shoot a possible on a badge shoot practise then fail the terminal the next day, same rifle, same range, perfect conditions. :cantbeli:
The lack of report could be through use of a well constructed urban hide, ie, small firing aperture surrounded by material to dampen the report, matresses, etc.

Another post from the same thread,

Hi Race I was involved in one sniper incident in Baghdad. First I am not a sniper but I know first hand there are highly trained Iraqi snipers out there. In April while conducting training of Iraqis in the "light Green Zone" (the civil area adjacent to the GZ) someone with a Dragunov took a shot at our fixed guard post from 500-600 meters away - straight through Zhora park. The round missed the half exposed Iraqi guard by two inches. We ran the shot down and found the new 7.62x54 casing in a sniper hide carved out of a space that was hollowed out of a hedge 8' high ... make it worse ... it was also in a security zone near the Iraqi Police post that guarded the Interim Iraqi President Ayad Allawi ... his house was 200 meters away. So it wasn't the IP. The IP were freaking out and scurrying around like ants and shooting in the air. The sniper got away by backing up a car to the hide, crawling in, sighting & firing, breaking the weapon down into two, throwing the weapon under the back seat and driving away. Why was he shooting at us? It seems he wasn't ... when we got down into the hide and set up a Dragunov in the same spot we could see he was trying to hit the main gate of the acting Minister of the Interior (a combination of Director of homeland Security, FBI/States police and Customs he runs the IP, Border guards, Facilites protection and all security for the government) which was 20 meters to the left and rear of the guard ... 6 inches more to the left and he would have hit anyone in the door ... we don't know who he missed; any number of diplomats and dignitaries enter that gate daily. In the scramble of taking cover we didn't notice. The worst part it all occured right under the eyes of the two US counter-sniper teams on top of the Rashid hotel (100 meters away from the impact point). Not thinking about our position was masking a Iraqi high value assassination target is a case of lack of imagination on our part and mis-underestimating the opposition's guts and capability. These guys practically invented assassination. All operators in this AO need to know the Saddam Fedayeen are what we call a Class-1 terrorist organization ... that means they are a former intelligence agency gone full-time terrorist and their core people (several thousand?) are professionally trained. The Saddam Fedayeen have had money and tools and training for 30 years. They ran a terrorism university here for crying out loud! They've also had a year of live fire practice on humans. The Iraqi military was over 2 million-3 million men during the Iran Iraq war and a million in the first Gulf war. They trained thousands of "designated marksmen" and probably hundreds of real snipers. I have met (and employed two) experienced snipers who used the Dragunov during the Iran-Iraq or 1st Gulf war. Not a great SWS but it will kill you dead when it hits you. One of our BGs was a proud, former Republican guardsman who had been trained by a Russian MTT as a scout sniper. He really knew the weapon, ammunition, optics, fieldcraft and shooting from hides. We gave him both a Steyr SSG and Dragunov and he showed excellent profiency out to 500 meters ... for an Iraqi thats long range and we didn't think he could hit the wall but he consistently hit center of mass shots in gusty, dusty wind. It was he that found the hide where we were shot from and said it was taught in RG school. However the most impressive was a 45 year old gun dealer who had a logbook with over 150+ Iranian kills in the trenches during the 1980s ... These guys are proud and they have some skill. Stay safe.

oldsoak wrote,
Not good - we in the west seem to have sold a lot of weaponry to "friends" and boy is it coming back to us.

Yeah, but even worse in my opinion is the training handed out. In ET we were facing off against TNI snipers who had received training from United States Army Special Forces. There are photos available open source that document this. These guys were sitting in overwatch positions during cross border prisoner/refugee exchanges, etc.

Jani.R
12-31-2004, 08:38 PM
Is there any more information about insurgent snipers?

Partically ones from Iraq

fantassin
01-01-2005, 09:34 AM
What's a "Terp." ? (in the first article, "...a Terp. was hit (also a head shot) while riding in the back of a HMMV")

Roger Rabbit
01-01-2005, 10:40 AM
What's a "Terp." ? (in the first article, "...a Terp. was hit (also a head shot) while riding in the back of a HMMV")
Interpreter? I've read other articles where the interpeter is refered to as the 'terp' so an educated guess is that its the same in this case. Could be wrong though.

fantassin
01-01-2005, 10:55 AM
Thanks !

:D

moughoun
01-01-2005, 11:36 AM
Yeah, but even the best have their bad days. Wink I've seen Queens medalists shoot a possible on a badge shoot practise then fail the terminal the next day, same rifle, same range, perfect conditions. Can't Believe It
The lack of report could be through use of a well constructed urban hide, ie, small firing aperture surrounded by material to dampen the report, matresses, etc
:| , that make's it doubly bad, shooting proficency and employment skill's to boot, not good