Elderly Jewish man accused of postwar revenge rampage

[BigBaribal]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Elderly-Jewish-man-accused-of-postwar-revenge-rampage/2005/01/02/1104601243476.html?oneclick=true



Poland is demanding the extradition from Israel of an elderly Jewish man accused of the deaths of hundreds of Germans in a postwar detention camp.

Solomon Morel, 86, faces charges of crimes against humanity in relation to more than 1500 inmates at a camp in southern Poland, many of whom perished in "barbaric" circumstances.

The investigation is the first in Poland into a Jew accused of retaliating against the Germans, and poses potentially awkward questions for Israel about its attitude towards those allegedly involved in revenge killings. Israeli officials turned down a previous extradition request six years ago.

Morel, who fled to Israel from Poland in 1994 and lives in hiding in Tel Aviv, was held in Auschwitz as a young man. More than 30 members of his family were killed by the Nazis.

In November 1945, after the Soviet occupation of Poland began, he was one of many Jews appointed by Stalin to supervise the brutal denazification camps, where up to 80,000 ethnic Germans are believed to have died as a result of torture, starvation and typhus. Stalin picked Jews as camp commandants knowing they would show little mercy to the inmates.


According to John Sack, the late author of An Eye for An Eye: The Untold Story of Jewish Revenge Against Germans in 1945, Morel made his desire for revenge clear from the day the camp at Swietochlowice opened.

In a television interview before his death last year, Sack said: "On the first night at Swietochlowice, when the first contingent of Germans arrived, at about 10 o'clock at night he walked into one of the barracks and he said to the Germans, 'My name is Morel. I am a Jew. My mother and father, my family, I think they're all dead, and I swore that if I got out alive, I was going to get back at you Nazis. And now you're going to pay for what you did.' "

In his book, Sack, himself a Jew, describes in detail the alleged atrocities committed at the camp: "The guards put the Germans into a doghouse, beating them if they didn't say 'bow-wow'. They got the Germans to beat each other; to jump on each other's spines and to punch each other's noses, and hit the Germans so hard that they once knocked a German's glass eye out."

Guards also raped German women and trained dogs to bite off German men's genitals on command, Sack said.

The Israeli Justice Ministry said it was "in the process of examining" the extradition request.

The Telegraph, London

A good thing that all aspects of WWII, even the hidden ones, are now being put into the light.


A book on this carefuly hidden subject:

"A terrible revenge"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312121598/qid=1104680758/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-0873609-9391264?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


An eye for an eye:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967569109/002-0873609-9391264?v=glance

[username]

interesting

[Wodan]

yeah... things happend, we cant do anything against it, I know germans did also cruelly things, it isnt the problem for me about they did it, its that all these things got hidden for almost 60 years

[radon]

They should sent that guy to Poland. No need to protect him. Justice should be blind.

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

Or atleast have a blindfold.
Maybe polish agents can kidnap him, in true mossad style.

[Mrufka]

He is a criminal from old communist regime security service (S.B. służba bezpieczeństwa) well known for repressive measures to its own citizens.
Commies protect them and when ground burn under his feet he escaped do Izrael.
Izraal is well known for turning down extradition requests for their citizens.

[budgie]

Yes despite the things that happened to the Jews, revenge is no motive to break the laws of decency and humanity. He needs to be puinished.

[ForgottenSoldier1942]

Or atleast have a blindfold.
Maybe polish agents can kidnap him, in true mossad style.

HA! Not a bad idea, but the Polish agents would have to go through the Mossad to get this guy. And that ain't gonna happen.

[UoUo]

Or atleast have a blindfold.
Maybe polish agents can kidnap him, in true mossad style.

HA! Not a bad idea, but the Polish agents would have to go through the Mossad to get this guy. And that ain't gonna happen.

More like shabac.

[bloddyaxe]

Maybe they can send a female agent to lure him to Rome, where he can be captured....


just like they did to that poor nuke guy...

[mack pl]

my great grandfather who was Austriak, was killed in one of those camps(Jaworzno -Szczakowa )...well, even If this dude is old, he should be punished... :|

[machupichu]

the german politicians are ignoring those crimes. they will ignore it until the last victim and/or criminal is dead&forgotten. those jews must be punished. they will burn in hell.
its a good thing poland dares to speak up.

[Geezah]

What this guy did was wrong, but if I were in his shoes, I think I would have done the same thing.

[machupichu]

What this guy did was wrong, but if I were in his shoes, I think I would have done the same thing.
then you would be a criminal and deserve burning in hell too. :cantbeli:

[mack pl]

What this guy did was wrong, but if I were in his shoes, I think I would have done the same thing.

Im wonder how many Jews(or Poles) were asked to "work" in those camps, and didnt agreed...I bet it was big number, coz only some part of ppl are ready to kill innocents in so called revange...of course Im only guessing....anyway, you never know how would you react in situation like that(would you accept an offer or not)... :|

[DPGLAW]

I say who cares if he did that. The Nazi's should not be considered human biengs by any stretch of the imagination and they deserved what they got. That is why I say that this guy should not be punished in any way, shape, or form. If the aforementioned reasoning is too much for you than try this: This gentleman was quite obviously tramutized by the treatment of his people and probably himself at the hands of the nazis so therefore I think that he most definitely suffered from some form of a mental defect as a result. By defect I mean that to him I am sure that what he was doing was NOT in any way worng, he was defending his life and that of any other survivors. Therefore he can not and should not be held criminally culpable for said actions.

[machupichu]

hahaha dpglaw you are so stupid, im not even getting mad about your statement!

rofl

[Pille1234]

rubbish rofl
Little CIA-Boy is again trying to qualify himself for his future career in abu Ghraib.

[Bara_Cooda]

What was the kind of population in those camps?
"Regular" german wermacht soldiers? S.S soldiers?
Were all the german pow's in poland sent there?

[Bara_Cooda]

anyway,
From these days,
What he did sounds defenitely wrong, sick, and it repulses me to treat that way innocent people.
But also,
I bet that at the perspective of those days,
Any jew that passed what he passed, hated the **** out of the germans, blind hate.
Not only those that committed the crimes, but their wifes, sons, neighbours, and anything related to them.
What he did is a hate crime. It is still wrong. But alot of people, that were normal and might have been very good people before that war, would do the same. Maybe would I if i lived back then. maybe he is among the few that got the chance.

[Geezah]

anyway,
From these days,
What he did sounds defenitely wrong, sick, and it repulses me to treat that way innocent people.
But also,
I bet that at the perspective of those days,
Any jew that passed what he passed, hated the **** out of the germans, blind hate.
Not only those that committed the crimes, but their wifes, sons, neighbours, and anything related to them.
What he did is a hate crime. It is still wrong. But alot of people, that were normal and might have been very good people before that war, would do the same. Maybe would I if i lived back then. maybe he is among the few that got the chance.

That's what all the Euros have missed here, the guy lived through hell only to get the chance to do the same to the people that impossed that hell on him.
If I were to lose my entire family to Nazis, if I were in his shoes, I think I would do the same.

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

What he did is a crime, and for crimes you get punished.
What he did was wrong, whoever does it.

[Geezah]

What he did is a crime, and for crimes you get punished.
What he did was wrong, whoever does it.

I didn't question whether it was right or wrong but if I were in his shoes I would probably do the same..
Thank God, I'm not.

[Wodan]

What was the kind of population in those camps?
"Regular" german wermacht soldiers? S.S soldiers?
Were all the german pow's in poland sent there?

all that didnt escape before, to a place thats in west to the Oder and Neiße rivers

(and nobody can tell me that any jew and any polish did such revenge, it was just done by some bastards that werent better than the SS assholes which did the same some months before till with them, their relatives, neighbors or other people in their country)

[Wodan]

anyway,
From these days,
What he did sounds defenitely wrong, sick, and it repulses me to treat that way innocent people.
But also,
I bet that at the perspective of those days,
Any jew that passed what he passed, hated the **** out of the germans, blind hate.
Not only those that committed the crimes, but their wifes, sons, neighbours, and anything related to them.
What he did is a hate crime. It is still wrong. But alot of people, that were normal and might have been very good people before that war, would do the same. Maybe would I if i lived back then. maybe he is among the few that got the chance.

That's what all the Euros have missed here, the guy lived through hell only to get the chance to do the same to the people that impossed that hell on him.
If I were to lose my entire family to Nazis, if I were in his shoes, I think I would do the same.

If some months before a guy raped your girlfriend, and you kill him then later, you will get into prison, thats called arbitrary law!

Or more exactly:

what they did was:

A person humilated you, or a friend/relative of you (or killed anybody you know)

And then, you humilate, some months later a person that was from the same country like this person!


If a black in the usa gets humilated by a KKK guy, and then later the black humilates some whites for that, would you think the black is right and shouldnt get punished for that by the state?

[BigBaribal]

Btw, there were other camps in Poland like Zgoda or Schwientochlowice in which germans were killed (about 250'000 ones in all), beginning from the end of 1944.

[Geezah]

anyway,
From these days,
What he did sounds defenitely wrong, sick, and it repulses me to treat that way innocent people.
But also,
I bet that at the perspective of those days,
Any jew that passed what he passed, hated the **** out of the germans, blind hate.
Not only those that committed the crimes, but their wifes, sons, neighbours, and anything related to them.
What he did is a hate crime. It is still wrong. But alot of people, that were normal and might have been very good people before that war, would do the same. Maybe would I if i lived back then. maybe he is among the few that got the chance.

That's what all the Euros have missed here, the guy lived through hell only to get the chance to do the same to the people that impossed that hell on him.
If I were to lose my entire family to Nazis, if I were in his shoes, I think I would do the same.

If some months before a guy raped your girlfriend, and you kill him then later, you will get into prison, thats called arbitrary law!

Or more exactly:

what they did was:

A person humilated you, or a friend/relative of you (or killed anybody you know)

And then, you humilate, some months later a person that was from the same country like this person!


If a black in the usa gets humilated by a KKK guy, and then later the black humilates some whites for that, would you think the black is right and shouldnt get punished for that by the state?

The brush your using is too broad, this is not about colour but about a majority of people that hated Jews and saw nothing wrong with sending them to camps to be gassed and burnt.
So as I have said a few times before, if I was in his shoes and had the opportunity to return the favour to a group of people that thought alike, I think I would have to oblige.

[Wodan]

The brush your using is too broad, this is not about colour but about a majority of people that hated Jews and saw nothing wrong with sending them to camps to be gassed and burnt.
So as I have said a few times before, if I was in his shoes and had the opportunity to return the favour to a group of people that thought alike, I think I would have to oblige.

you are really sick, dude

(how do you want to know that a majority hated yews did you live in that time????)

[BigBaribal]

But there are cases in which the story is not so simple.

Example: the SS troops, helped by Ukrainians, killed 4000 jews in Lvov in 1941, what is of course a disgusting war crime.

Ok, but it's rarely said that before this horrible act, the Soviet NKVD troops (Reds also had their own "Einsatzgruppen"), commanded by officers mostly jews, killed with the help of some of the Lvov jews about 3000 Ukrainians and among these Ukrainians, about 80% of the Ukrain intelligentsia simply set on fire in the city jail.

And there are many examples like that, for example what happened in Poland around 1922.

[Sayeret]

I've heard about things like this before and most of the Jews who left the concentration camps didn't go out to try to get revenge on the Nazis. One story is that after a camp was liberated the liberators (I don't remember who they were) told the Jews that they could kill the German guards who were retreating and no one did.


the german politicians are ignoring those crimes. they will ignore it until the last victim and/or criminal is dead&forgotten. those jews must be punished. they will burn in hell.
its a good thing poland dares to speak up.

Maybe you should write that a little bit differently.

[Wodan]

And there are many examples like that, for example what happened in Poland around 1922.

the time after WW I, as the germans got prosecuted in poland, or which population group do you mean?

[Wodan]

I've heard about things like this before and most of the Jews who left the concentration camps didn't go out to try to get revenge on the Nazis. One story is that after a camp was liberated the liberators (I don't remember who they were) told the Jews that they could kill the German guards who were retreating and no one did.


the german politicians are ignoring those crimes. they will ignore it until the last victim and/or criminal is dead&forgotten. those jews must be punished. they will burn in hell.
its a good thing poland dares to speak up.

Maybe you should write that a little bit differently.

hm.. I think everybody knows what he means...

but I think also the polish who did that will burn in hell... not just the jews.. (same on the germans who did that till some months before on them..)

[Wodan]

But there are cases in which the story is not so simple.

Example: the SS troops, helped by Ukrainians, killed 4000 jews in Lvov in 1941, what is of course a disgusting war crime.

Ok, but it's rarely said that before this horrible act, the Soviet NKVD troops (Reds also had their own "Einsatzgruppen"), commanded by officers mostly jews, killed with the help of some of the Lvov jews about 3000 Ukrainians and among these Ukrainians, about 80% of the Ukrain intelligentsia simply set on fire in the city jail.

And there are many examples like that, for example what happened in Poland around 1922.

hm.. .was the "dont by from germans" in New York before or after the "Kauft nichts bei Juden" in bigger german towns?

[Geezah]

The brush your using is too broad, this is not about colour but about a majority of people that hated Jews and saw nothing wrong with sending them to camps to be gassed and burnt.
So as I have said a few times before, if I was in his shoes and had the opportunity to return the favour to a group of people that thought alike, I think I would have to oblige.

you are really sick, dude

(how do you want to know that a majority hated yews did you live in that time????)

I'm sick for being human and understanding that I'm not perfect, if I was in his shoes and my family had been wiped out by Nazis, I think my imperfect emotions would kick in and I would want revenge.

As far as a majority of Nazis hating Jews, I may be completely off mark here but how many Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis?

Next your going to tell me the holocaust never happened?

[Sayeret]

I've heard about things like this before and most of the Jews who left the concentration camps didn't go out to try to get revenge on the Nazis. One story is that after a camp was liberated the liberators (I don't remember who they were) told the Jews that they could kill the German guards who were retreating and no one did.


the german politicians are ignoring those crimes. they will ignore it until the last victim and/or criminal is dead&forgotten. those jews must be punished. they will burn in hell.
its a good thing poland dares to speak up.

Maybe you should write that a little bit differently.

hm.. I think everybody knows what he means...

but I think also the polish who did that will burn in hell... not just the jews.. (same on the germans who did that till some months before on them..)

Read some of the stuff machupichu has said previously about Jews.


i guess most germans think that 60 years later you do not have to build monumental memorials for jews. in nearly every german town you will find several "spots of remembrance" for those guys. germany already is the jew industrys cockaigne. they are overdoing it.




What would you have preferred? A monument to Hitler?
nope, they should invest that money in highways, infrastructure or whatever.

but IF someone urgently needs a new huge memorial of ww2 times, they should at least devote it to all victims. but the jews insisted on their own damn thing. they give a **** on the other deaths.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33068&highlight=jews



May I ask you why you think "Jews are unpredictable"?
its strange for normal people that an army raids villages and destroys civil houses just for revenge. thats a point where you start thinking: do those jews really share our values?



If Israel can have em, why not Iran?
i totally agree. israel would not hesitate for one second to throw a nuke on iran for whatever reason. the jews are unpredictable.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30610&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=jews&start=16

[BigBaribal]

A good book about all this matter:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/185984488X/qid=1104792647/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/002-4446375-6272050?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[b.scheller]

I don't like to get involved in flame wars, but it seems that this trial will be unfair one. As Poland isn't what you'd expect a holiday destination for most Jewish people or Israelis, the fact remains that there are many anti-semites and this will just add kindling to a fire that's already raging.

From my perspective this already smells of anti-semitism. Some sort of revenge on all the Jewish people, that Pole's believe blame them for all their problems. :roll:

Perhaps it would be better to go after the actual criminals (not to say that he isn't one), the communists that killed workers and the militia and paramilitary that was responsible for so many deaths are running around free, and their crimes were not comitted 50 years ago but 20 and even less.

[radon]

What was the kind of population in those camps?
"Regular" german wermacht soldiers? S.S soldiers?
Were all the german pow's in poland sent there?

Where there civilians in that camp? German population in the east maybe? I wonder because the article talks about raping women .


I say who cares if he did that. The Nazi's should not be considered human biengs by any stretch of the imagination and they deserved what they got. That is why I say that this guy should not be punished in any way, shape, or form. If the aforementioned reasoning is too much for you than try this: This gentleman was quite obviously tramutized by the treatment of his people and probably himself at the hands of the nazis so therefore I think that he most definitely suffered from some form of a mental defect as a result. By defect I mean that to him I am sure that what he was doing was NOT in any way worng, he was defending his life and that of any other survivors. Therefore he can not and should not be held criminally culpable for said actions.

You should try working in the camp of Solomon Morel , or a career at gestapo would also suit your interests imho. You do not know what people were in those camps?

You say the allies should have put german soldiers (germans?) in their own concentration camps themselves? They would deserve what they get? And I do not understand your logic , you say he was insane but right after that he was defending the survivors? Ok he might have been traumatized. But do you mean that, it was not wrong because he was in control of a camp of people who would otherwise kill jews , so that was all in self defense? Explain what you mean please

I dont think I could ever start doing that

[Kilgor]

This has been blown so out of proportion. :roll:


it doesnt matter if it was right or wrong, but at the time revenge killings where everywhere in germany.

Russians used to go around screaming "du ss" ? hunting down any members of the group. Instantly shot.

Many recently liberated countries (Thats you team europe), rounded up nazi's and sympathisers and shot. (and probably tortured them)

Some of the guys here seriously need to STFU and read reports of germany in its final days and shortly after the war. It was a bloodbath of revenge.

[Stavka]

the jews are unpredictable.

But they are unpredictable! You never know when one of them will lift their hat and say 'Mazel Tov'. ;)


On another note:

If there is still a search on for german war criminals, why shouldnt war criminals of other nationalities be brought to justice? If justice isn't equal, what's the point?

[Opening Batsman]

Two wrongs don't make a right, but they do make it even.
I am not saying what he did was good, but I can empathize with him a little.

[callous]

If it's true it's a crime. It dosen't matter why. He became a tool for stalin's slaughter house. He's no better then the SS. The two wrongs make it even is crap. If some black dude beats up my brother. Should I go out and beat up some other black person to make it even?

[mack pl]

I don't like to get involved in flame wars

right...

, but it seems that this trial will be unfair one.

why, coz you say so?

As Poland isn't what you'd expect a holiday destination for most Jewish people or Israelis, the fact remains that there are many anti-semites and this will just add kindling to a fire that's already raging.

yeah, sure...

From my perspective

19 yers old kid from Canada... :roll:

this already smells of anti-semitism.

ohhh boy, bad Poles hate this poor old man...

Some sort of revenge on all the Jewish people, that Pole's believe blame them for all their problems. :roll:

yeah, I blame them for all mine problems....especially Javehn and UoUo...they are troublemakers... :roll:

Perhaps it would be better to go after the actual criminals (not to say that he isn't one)

ohhh thanks, you are right here....

, the communists that killed workers and the militia and paramilitary that was responsible for so many deaths are running around free, and their crimes were not comitted 50 years ago but 20 and even less. so we havent got trials about Jaruzelski, Kiszczak, Wujek, Poznań 56, Wybrzeze 70 etc etc??? Yes, we have, but you dont know that coz you are living in Canada, and you know ...ekhmmm... not much about Poland ...BTW we cannot forget about mr Morel, even If he committed his crimes 50 years ago, just like we cannot forget about crimes against our own nation comitted by Russians, or Germans...etc etc....even if tht was 50 yrs ago...BTW we dont hate him coz he committed crimes against us, we trying to judge this dude, coz he committed crimes against Germnas(but he did that in Poland, and he worked for commie regime)

Thank you

PS. feel free to PM me If you have some questions about trials against communists criminals :roll:

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

I don't like to get involved in flame wars, but it seems that this trial will be unfair one. As Poland isn't what you'd expect a holiday destination for most Jewish people or Israelis, the fact remains that there are many anti-semites and this will just add kindling to a fire that's already raging.

From my perspective this already smells of anti-semitism. Some sort of revenge on all the Jewish people, that Pole's believe blame them for all their problems. :roll:

Perhaps it would be better to go after the actual criminals (not to say that he isn't one), the communists that killed workers and the militia and paramilitary that was responsible for so many deaths are running around free, and their crimes were not comitted 50 years ago but 20 and even less.

Seriously dude, stop the BS based on 'your perspective' and try to get some factual information about the subject before you start to flame :roll:

For your knowledge: the same evil nationalistic anti-semitic Polish government agency which accused him (IPN, or Institute of National Remembrance) is responsible for starting a court trials or investigations on Germans Russians, and Poles who collaborated with Nazis or the Stalin's regime during and after the WWII (including a group of Poles who killed Jews from the town of Jedwabne in 1941), Polish communist leaders, and agents of the SB (Security Service).


btw. why the soldiers of the Jewish brigade fighting on the western front and later serving as a occupation force in Germany haven't commited war crimes? They were in the same situation as this guy was...

[Satyr]

This has been blown so out of proportion. :roll:


it doesnt matter if it was right or wrong, but at the time revenge killings where everywhere in germany.

Russians used to go around screaming "du ss" ? hunting down any members of the group. Instantly shot.

Many recently liberated countries (Thats you team europe), rounded up nazi's and sympathisers and shot. (and probably tortured them)

Some of the guys here seriously need to STFU and read reports of germany in its final days and shortly after the war. It was a bloodbath of revenge.

Well put..