Who Were the Mamluks

[Sayeret]

Mamluk means "owned." The term was originally applied to boys from the tribes of Central Asia who were bought by the Abbasid caliphs for training as soldiers. After their seizure of Egypt in 969, the Fatimids adopted the same practice as well.

When Saladin supplanted the Fatimids and founded the Ayyubid dynasty in 1174, he formed them into a distinct military body. Since the Ayyubids were strangers in Egypt, they probably felt more comfortable with the support of their fellow foreigners.

Dealers bought children of conquered tribes in Central Asia, promising them great fortunes in the West. After their purchase Mamluk boys were given several years of rigorous training in horsemanship and archery. They were then used both as bodyguards and to offset the dominating influence of the Arab military in the state. Eventually the Egyptian Mamluks moved from mere slaves to masters of the court and toppled the Ayyubid dynasty, seizing control of the country.

Power in the Mamluk realm was not based on heredity. Every Mamluk arrived in Syria or Egypt as a slave recruit. Converted to Islam he worked his way up from recruit to his eventual position based on merit alone. Every commander of the army and nearly all of the Mamluk sultans started life in this manner. The result was a succession of rulers of unrivaled personality, courage and ruthlessness.

After the Mamluks made themselves master of Egypt and Syria, they continued the same policy of recruitment. Agents were sent to buy and import boys from Central Asia for their armies. Mamluks looked on their Egyptian born sons as socially inferior and would not recruit them into regular Mamluk units which only admitted boys born on the steppes.

This constant influx of new blood provided a check on degeneration when the Mamluks became the rulers and possessors of wealth and power. An autocratic military caste they ruled with considerable harshness, imposed heavy taxation and held all political and military powers in their own hands. The Mamluks made use of the native born population in civil posts and many achieved high rank and honors in the civil administration.

The Mamluks held uncontested power in Egypt until 1517 when Cairo fell to the Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman ruler, Selim, put an end to the Mamluk sultanate but did not, however, destroy the Mamluks as a class; they kept their lands, and Mamluk governors retained control of the provinces and were even allowed to keep private armies. In the 18th century, when Ottoman power began to decline, the Mamluks were able to win back an increasing amount of self-rule. In 1769 a Mamluk leader, Ali Bey, proclaimed himself sultan, declaring independence from the Ottomans. Although he fell in 1772, the Ottoman Turks still felt compelled to concede an increasing measures of autonomy to the Mamluks and appointed a series of them as governors of Egypt. The Mamluks were defeated by Napoleon Bonaparte during his invasion of Egypt in1798, and their power as a class was ended in 1811 by Muhammad Ali.

http://www.strategypage.com/articles/default.asp?target=mongol.htm#return7

[MARINO]

Those are Mameluks


<img src=http://www.xtec.es/~fchorda/18web/img/jpg/goya07.jpg>
Madrid May 2th

[fdt]

Boys were originated from Central Asia, Caucassus (like Cherkes) and from Eastern Slavic nations (not much but they were).

[b33f]

interesting, thanks for posting.

[el borracho]

Boys were originated from Central Asia, Caucassus (like Cherkes) and from Eastern Slavic nations (not much but they were).

During the time of the Roman civilization they too gathered slaves from the peoples of eastern Europe and the Caucasus. In fact the word "slave" comes from the word "Slav." The concept of slavery was associated with that group of people so much that their name was used for the term.

[Lokos]

el borracho:

No. The word Slav is derived from our word for our people, which is Sloveni. Depending on who you ask, the name is either derived from 'slava' (glory, or the glorious people) or 'slovo' (word, the worded people - or maybe the ones who speak the same language).

This is supported by the fact that our word for the Germans, Nemci (in every Slavic language that's the name for the Germans AFAIK), means 'the mute ones' or the ones who do not speak our language.

Please update your knowledge of this subject accordingly, because I am getting really tired of explaining this to Westerners who like to think of us as good for nothing but being slaves.

Regards,
Lokos

[Clarsachier]

were the most effective force fielded against the crusaders. The concept is
rooted deeply in the culture of the region.

It seems that the madrassas are the modern implimentation.

[el borracho]

el borracho:

No. The word Slav is derived from our word for our people, which is Sloveni. Depending on who you ask, the name is either derived from 'slava' (glory, or the glorious people) or 'slovo' (word, the worded people - or maybe the ones who speak the same language).

This is supported by the fact that our word for the Germans, Nemci (in every Slavic language that's the name for the Germans AFAIK), means 'the mute ones' or the ones who do not speak our language.

Please update your knowledge of this subject accordingly, because I am getting really tired of explaining this to Westerners who like to think of us as good for nothing but being slaves.

Regards,
Lokos

Well, I understand your frustration, but I meant the origin of the word "slave" which comes from the word "Slav" which came from "Sloveni." Your people were called "Slavs" before the Romans gave them that unfortunate distinction of being their servants. The name for your people in their language was used by the Romans and "Latinized" to mean something else entirely.

[Lokos]

El borracho:

The concept of slavery has been around for thousands of years. The Romans had slaves long before they had contact with any Slavic peoples. I truly doubt we were the inspiration for the word 'slave' or even that 'Slav' was appropriated into 'Slave'. There were far more Roman slaves of African, Middle-Eastern and Germanic background.

Besides, I'm fairly certain that the Romans had no concept of the Slavic peoples as a whole, but of individual tribes.

Regards,
Lokos

[Coop]

el borracho:

No. The word Slav is derived from our word for our people, which is Sloveni. Depending on who you ask, the name is either derived from 'slava' (glory, or the glorious people) or 'slovo' (word, the worded people - or maybe the ones who speak the same language).

This is supported by the fact that our word for the Germans, Nemci (in every Slavic language that's the name for the Germans AFAIK), means 'the mute ones' or the ones who do not speak our language.

&lt;snip>

You're right down to the point with "Nemci" being used as designation for Germans in "every" Slavic language.

"Nemci" is "Germans" only in Serbian and Bulgarian. Few other Slavic languages sound similar, but are not spoken the same. Czechs use a similar word, "Nemec", and Poles and the Ukrainians "Niemec".

Russians say something completely different - "Germanec/Germanciy" and "Germaniya", just for example, and Croats say "Nijemci" (also similar, but sounds quite different when spoken), while their original expresion was something like "Tudjmany" (comes from "Deutsch"; that's also where from is the name of the first Croat president after independence in 1991 - Tudjman).

Besides, instead of "Nemci/Nijemci/Njemci", in every-day language most of the Southern Slaves use with predilection the "inofficial" general designation "Svabe" - which comes from "Schwaben", one of ethnic German groups (in Germany): "Svabe" was especially in use by Serbians (and in Slovenia) and they designated even Austrians this way.

[el borracho]

My Russian dictionary says that Germany is "Germania" but a German is "Nemetsky."

[el borracho]

El borracho:

The concept of slavery has been around for thousands of years. The Romans had slaves long before they had contact with any Slavic peoples. I truly doubt we were the inspiration for the word 'slave' or even that 'Slav' was appropriated into 'Slave'. There were far more Roman slaves of African, Middle-Eastern and Germanic background.

Besides, I'm fairly certain that the Romans had no concept of the Slavic peoples as a whole, but of individual tribes.

Regards,
Lokos

slave ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slv)
n.
One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: “I was still the slave of education and prejudice” (Edward Gibbon).
One who works extremely hard.
A machine or component controlled by another machine or component.

intr.v. slaved, slav·ing, slaves
To work very hard or doggedly; toil.
To trade in or transport slaves.


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[Middle English sclave, from Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclvus, from Sclvus, Slav (from the widespread enslavement of captured Slavs in the early Middle Ages). See Slav.]
Word History: The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical. The word slave first appears in English around 1290, spelled sclave. The spelling is based on Old French esclave from Medieval Latin sclavus, “Slav, slave,” first recorded around 800. Sclavus comes from Byzantine Greek sklabos (pronounced sklävs) “Slav,” which appears around 580. Sklavos approximates the Slavs' own name for themselves, the Slovnci, surviving in English Slovene and Slovenian. The spelling of English slave, closer to its original Slavic form, first appears in English in 1538. Slavs became slaves around the beginning of the ninth century when the Holy Roman Empire tried to stabilize a German-Slav frontier. By the 12th century stabilization had given way to wars of expansion and extermination that did not end until the Poles crushed the Teutonic Knights at Grunwald in 1410. ·As far as the Slavs' own self-designation goes, its meaning is, understandably, better than “slave” it comes from the Indo-European root *kleu-, whose basic meaning is “to hear” and occurs in many derivatives meaning “renown, fame.” The Slavs are thus “the famous people.” Slavic names ending in -slav incorporate the same word, such as Czech Bohu-slav, “God's fame,” Russian Msti-slav, “vengeful fame,” and Polish Stani-slaw, “famous for withstanding (enemies).”







There you have it, straight from dictionary.com. Now, are we done with this argument yet?

[maw]

el borracho, locos - read "the germania" by tacitus. its an ethnographical account of the region from the year ad 98. in it he describes the region and its inhabitant tribes. the word slav does not appear once. the romans merely referered to these people by the name of their respective tribe, the harri, the venedi, the ruggi, the mannimi, etc. the "slavs" didn't exist at the time of the romans.
for the record, the roman word for slave is servus.

during the middle ages the word changed into various forms, including sclavus (medievil latin) approx. 9th century. there's a bit of unpleasant history surrounding the holy roman empire's attepmt to stabilize that part of world that backs a lot of what el borracho says. but we're talkig about the ninth century, not the first century, hence the confusion.

[Kitsune]

Mamluk means "owned." rofl

[el borracho]

Mamluk means "owned." rofl

The question is, how do you say "pwned!"? :)

The word comes from the Arabic verb "malaka"- to own, and you get a variety of terms like "malik"- king, "mamlaka"- kingdom, and the past participle "mamlouk"- to be owned.

[Lokos]

El Borracho: Your point is made, and it sickens me. I suppose I was confused as to which Roman Empire you were referring to. However, the modern school of thought regarding the origins of the word Sloven now insists that it is not 'glory' or 'fame' (slava) that our name is derived from, but 'letter' or 'word' (slovo). Since the Germans were our main foreign contact during our early expansion period, all foreigners were at one time known as Nemci/Niemcy etc. In every Slavic language, this means (or at least once did) 'mute' - incapable of speaking our language, that is. That supports the theory that our name for our people is 'the ones of the same language' or 'the ones who can speak similary' or even 'the people of the word' and not 'the famous people'.

But yes, the apparent origins of the word 'slave' really do irk me. Slaves, indeed.

Did you know that our word for worker/slave 'rabot' is now the English word for automatons (robot). How ironic.

Lokos

[el borracho]

It's ok Lokos, I assumed that it was the ancient Romans that invented the word. My Latin teacher told us the slave/Slav story and given the context I naturally thought the ancient Romans, and not the Holy Romans.

[Loco]

Hass

[Loco]

Hi all, and special greetings to Lokos, are we relatives? :D
I´m afraid El borracho(curious nickname, btw) is right, although not at all. Roman people used the latin word "servus" for calling to slave people, as you all know slavery is an old institution, and you even can be born freen in Rome and becoming an slave depending of any circumstances. The words "slave" or "eslcavo" began to be used in the place of "servus" in the High Middle Age when the arabs dominated some parts at the south of Europe, all the Mediterranean waters, the Middle East and all the the trade routes. It´s not a coincidence that there´s a region called "Sclavonia" or "Esclavonia" and that many slaves came from that region. By any reason arabs had easy access for getting slavs people as slaves, or servus, I suppose because there were some powers in the east of Europe that sold that people to arabs, very probably the slavs sold as slaves just born as servus and thus they were sold out of the region. In any case, through the centuries, arabs didn´t need to persecut slavs with fights, they just bought them paid with pure gold imported from Africa. Maybe there was some point with religion, since the most of all those slavs being sold weren´t christians, at least the ones being sold in Spain to spanish christians. After that those "slaves" slavs were delivered towards Syria, Arabia, North Africa and many to the iberian dominated territory. There were as many slavs working as slaves in Al Andalus that soon spanish christians at the north called that servus as slaves because of their race. Al Andalus was very rich and a lot of their richness came from selling of slaves to chrisitian europeans across the borders between christianity and muslim world in the middle of Spain, and thus the circle was closed. In Al Andalus in some districts the slavs were a big percent of population, this can´t be ignored. Abderrahman III, king of Cordoba emirate(in fact, two thirds of iberian peninsula and the strongest and most advanced european kingdom in that time) had a slave slave mother or grandmother, probably more than one. He´s described as a pale face arab with a long blond bear and blue eyes.
Centuries after that arab power declined, turks raised again the flag of Islam in Europe and so many thousands more of slavs were caught as slaves, but this time not only then. Berbers pirates obeying Istanbul´s sultan raced across the shores of Italy and Spain during almost three centuries sacking and taking as hostages thousands of people in the towns and villages of the coast, sometimes asking for a ransom if the prisioners were rich or more usually for being sold as slaves. It´s not a shame that "slave" comes from "slav", I understand that can be disturbing, but we´re in XXI century and we´re adults.

[Lokos]

Hiya Loco,

Thanks for the interesting information. I know that some of the Muslim rulers of Iberia employed a unit made up of Slavic slaves (called the Slavic Guard) as their elite shock troops and protectors.

The origins of the word only slightly disturb me. We've moved on from our tribal weakness, after all.

Regards,
Lokos