Question regarding Swiss gun laws

[aclark79]

Its my understanding that every Swiss household is required to keep an military grade rifle and ammunition in thier home, and that all males of a certain age are required to be in the military, either reserves, active or such.

Could any of the Swiss on this forum confirm the law in Switzerland? Furthurmore, what are the Swiss gun laws for owning other firearms? Can you own handguns, other rifles, shotguns, and what are the laws for carying them? Are you allowed to carry a weapon anywhere, like you see so many people doing in Israel, or can you carry a conceled handgun like you can in many US States (if you have a permit)? I understand that Switzerland probably has like .01 percent violent crime so no one feels the need to walk around armed, but is it legal?

Thanks for any information.

[BigBaribal]

I'm Swiss and I recently finished my military duty.

Like every Swiss citizen, I was so able to keep, without any formality, my rifle (a fass 57), after its modification allowing only shot by shot firing.

I can keep this gun for myelf or sell it, except to Albanian, Algerian, ex-Yougoslavian, Sri-Lanka and Turkey people. I can sell this gun to other strangers, after a short authorization process.

Only the Fass57 is given to former reserve soldiers...

http://www.tir-sportif.ch/web/histoire/photos/fas57.jpg

.....but not the current Sig.

http://remtek.com/arms/sig/552/commando.htm

During active military service, each Swiss citizen making army keeps his rifle at home, with all his military equipment, with a closed box containing 24 bullets.

Each year, a test shooting (at 300 meters) must be done in one of the many shooting societies in Switzerland.

[Geezah]

I'm Swiss and I recently finished my military duty.

Only the Fass57 is given to former reserve soldiers...

http://www.tir-sportif.ch/web/histoire/photos/fas57.jpg

.....but not the current Sig.

http://remtek.com/arms/sig/552/commando.htm

During active military service, each Swiss citizen making army keeps his rifle at home, with all his military equipment, with a closed box containing 24 bullets.


I would love to own one of the Sig 550 series.

Do you know what the crime levels are like over there and why do they require you to keep 24 rnds on hand?

[BigBaribal]

Crime level in Switzerland is low. I've no stats, but when I read what's happening in the USA with gangs for instance, it's like I see a movie about planet Mars. But unhappily things are slowly going the bad way in Switzerland too with the coming of some people from countries in which violence is a common method to solve things. But nevertheless, life is still rather secure and quiet in our cities (nothing in common with the French suburbs for instance).

About the 24rnds, they are intented to be used in case of war mobilisation, to be armed from home to the place of mobilisation (a typical WWII or cold-war concept, a little bit obsolete now as there's no more classic military threat in Europe). These rounds are packed in a metal box like a corned-beef one and it's of course strictly forbidden to open it.

Btw, to have each citizen armed with a assault rifle and ammunition at home has never given trouble until now (to say the truth, the most danger these weapons cause are suicides), as the concept of citizen-soldier matches the general civism of the Swiss people (hard to explain in my crude english, but I think you understand); in France, you would have 300 dead people each year with this system!

And you're right about the 550 series: probably the best assault rifle in the world and I don't say that because of some nationalist feeling. Extremely precise, strong and very light like a toy. As a comparison, the Fass 57, inspite of being very precise (I can touch easily a basket ball at 350 meters and I'm an average shooter) is very heavy and not very maniable for urban fighting.



A link about criminality in Switzerland:

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=105&sid=4966139



An interesting read here:

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78



Many foreign countries have less restrictive firearms laws, and lower crime rates, than parts of the U.S. that have more restrictions. And many have low crime rates, despite having very different firearms laws. Switzerland and Japan "stand out as intriguing models. . . . (T)hey have crime rates that are among the lowest in the industrialized world, and yet they have diametrically opposite gun policies." (Nicholas D. Kristof, "One Nation Bars, The Other Requires," New York Times, 3/10/96.) Swiss citizens are issued fully-automatic rifles to keep at home for national defense purposes, yet "abuse of military weapons is rare." The Swiss own two million firearms, including handguns and semi-automatic rifles, they shoot about 60 million rounds of ammunition per year, and "the rate of violent gun abuse is low."

As a Swiss, the explanation for that situation is simple to feel but hard to explain, even in my native mothertongue: it's a sense of common interest among Swiss people who don't need a policeman behind each citizen to say to oneself "ok, this thing, it's not correct to do it". A kind of similar software in the head to take a computer comparison or what George Orwell called "common decency" (I think you can still have this way of thinking in some rural parts of the USA like the Maine for instance).

[mountainbear]

Crime level in Switzerland is low. I've no stats, but when I read what's happening in the USA with gangs for instance, it's like I see a movie about planet Mars. But unhappily things are slowly going the bad way in Switzerland too with the coming of some people from countries in which violence is a common method to solve things. But nevertheless, life is still rather secure and quiet in our cities (nothing in common with the French suburbs for instance).
This is sad and I must agree with you. :(


About the 24rnds, they are intented to be used in case of war mobilisation, to be armed from home to the place of mobilisation (a typical WWII or cold-war concept, a little bit obsolete now as there's no more classic military threat in Europe). These rounds are packed in a metal box like a corned-beef one and it's of course strictly forbidden to open it.
I think its 20 rounds the capacity of a Fass 90 / Sig 550 magazine, 24 is the capacity of the Fass 57 / Sig 510.


Btw, to have each citizen armed with a assault rifle and ammunition at home has never given trouble until now (to say the truth, the most danger these weapons cause are suicides), as the concept of citizen-soldier matches the general civism of the Swiss people (hard to explain in my crude english, but I think you understand); in France, you would have 300 dead people each year with this system!
Even if it doesn’t give trouble, except suicide, these :bash: of the GSSA and their Socio-green friends want to remove the tradition of having the army weapon at home.
But it’s stupid, it gives responsibility to keep a weapon at home and the responsibilities with civism are two of the most important thing in our democratic and liberal society.


Now about Swiss gun law. Automatic weapons are forbidden except the army ones for peoples in the army. Normally the rifle you can get at the end of your military duty should be modified to semi-automatic but sometimes it’s not! To buy any other weapons to a particular you simply don’t need any permit. If you buy a weapon from a professional you will need a permit for revolvers, pistols pomp action rifles and any other rifle except: old Swiss army ones (assault rifles excepted), hunting rifles, sport rifles and one shot rifles with or without multi-barrel. The buying permit is easy to get if you didn’t have trouble with justice. Carrying permit is only given for professionals or people who have a good reason to carry a weapon. Hunters don’t need it whit hunting permit.
This law is becoming harder and harder. Some politics think it will reduce criminality.
If Switzerland enters Schengen-Dublin agreement it could become much harder to get a weapon, but this agreement has a lot of positive points so I don’t know what I will vote if a referendum is asked.

For more precise information but it’s just in French, German and Italian:
http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/514_54/index.html

[BigBaribal]

I think its 20 rounds the capacity of a Fass 90 / Sig 550 magazine, 24 is the capacity of the Fass 57 / Sig 510.

You're right of course. In fact, my personal gun was a Fass 57.



Even if it doesn’t give trouble, except suicide, these Bash of the GSSA and their Socio-green friends want to remove the tradition of having the army weapon at home.
But it’s stupid, it gives responsibility to keep a weapon at home and the responsibilities with civism are two of the most important thing in our democratic and liberal society.

You're right again. Swiss leftists, like all the leftists in the world, don't like the concept of individual responsability. On the sociological point of view, that's also something to do with the global "sissification" of our Western societies.


If Switzerland enters Schengen-Dublin agreement it could become much harder to get a weapon, but this agreement has a lot of positive points so I don’t know what I will vote if a referendum is asked.

Like you, I still don't know what I'm going to vote (btw, it's still great that the people is still the sovreign in our country on this matters; I do love direct democracy :D )

[aclark79]

Thank you both for your informative replies, Switzerland sounds lik a great place to live, we've had two Swiss train at my flight school and they were both great, definatly gave a good impression of the Swiss, but like most Americans my most common exsposure to Switzerland is chocolate, clocks, banks, and the Swiss Guard in rome, not a very balanced impression I am sure.

Thanks again.

[Dennis G]

I would love to own one of the Sig 550 series.



Me too!

[Geezah]

I would love to own one of the Sig 550 series.



Me too!

There's a place that's selling them with the correct piece count but I think they're in the region of $4,000. Sig have shown no interest in importin gthem or making them at the US factories and I think they used the excuse of quality as to why this was?

[wiking]

The same system with keeping weapons and ammunition at home was used by the Norwegian Home Guard. The AG3 and 100 rounds of 7.62 was kept by each individual soldier in case of rapid mobilization.

over the last 2-3 years the Home Guard AG3's were used in several murders\suicides, and the systen has now been disbanded.

[Geezah]

The same system with keeping weapons and ammunition at home was used by the Norwegian Home Guard. The AG3 and 100 rounds of 7.62 was kept by each individual soldier in case of rapid mobilization.

over the last 2-3 years the Home Guard AG3's were used in several murders\suicides, and the systen has now been disbanded.

Why was it disbanded?

[Dennis G]

I would love to own one of the Sig 550 series.



Me too!

There's a place that's selling them with the correct piece count but I think they're in the region of $4,000. Sig have shown no interest in importin gthem or making them at the US factories and I think they used the excuse of quality as to why this was?

:( -- Thats really to bad, I know this guy and his department did some testing on them awhile back, he had nothing but good things to say about the rifle.

EDIT:: Geezah check your PM

http://www.boot.co.kr/wonhor_home/newhome/rifle/germany/img/sig550_r.jpg

[Ratman]

As a Swiss, the explanation for that situation is simple to feel but hard to explain, even in my native mothertongue: it's a sense of common interest among Swiss people who don't need a policeman behind each citizen to say to oneself "ok, this thing, it's not correct to do it". A kind of similar software in the head to take a computer comparison or what George Orwell called "common decency" (I think you can still have this way of thinking in some rural parts of the USA like the Maine for instance).

It's the same software that makes an encounter at a "customer service" desk at any store in Switzerland seem like an ambush at the Kyber pass.

Hi, I bought this product here yesterday and it has never worked.
Do we sell that product?
Why yes, as I said, I bought the product here yesterday.
I wasn't here yesterday.
So?
Can I see your receipt?
Yes, here.
Ok.
Well, do you have another one?
No.
Well, can I get a refund so that I can
go buy one somewhere else?
No, just a store credit.
But I don't want a store credit because I don't want either of the two other things you sell at this store.
C'est comme sa.
OK, when will you have the product in the store again?
I don't know/we won't.
[Leave store completely unsatisfied because your kids are starting to lose their minds because the 4 people behind them are blowing smoke from their cigarettes into their faces. Vow to only use mail order from abroad. ;)

Switzerland is a role model country in many ways, especially the maturity they show with the possession of their weapons. It starts at home and it starts at school. Look at Canada too. Two things that are generally much weaker in the USA, notwithstanding graduate school or the like.

Just stay out of the Stores!!!

[Wodan]

Swiss is a country that kept neutrality for hundereds of years

Swiss is a country that gives the own people really much power on the making of decisions in political matters

Swiss is a country with a government that trusts its people (besides of the reds/greens, but they are the problem of the most western states...)

Swiss is a country which is almost the richest in hole europe, without of being part of the european union
woot

I like that country really, hopefully but unlikely germany will get onto the same way in future :(

[Dennis G]

I would love to own one of the Sig 550 series.



Me too!

There's a place that's selling them with the correct piece count but I think they're in the region of $4,000. Sig have shown no interest in importin gthem or making them at the US factories and I think they used the excuse of quality as to why this was?

Here ya go:

SIG 550 "NIB & LOADED" (http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976527873.htm) for only $13K

NIB Sig 550 Sniper (http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976490074.htm) for only $17,500

[Geezah]

I would love to own one of the Sig 550 series.



Me too!

There's a place that's selling them with the correct piece count but I think they're in the region of $4,000. Sig have shown no interest in importin gthem or making them at the US factories and I think they used the excuse of quality as to why this was?

Here ya go:

SIG 550 "NIB & LOADED" (http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976527873.htm) for only $13K

NIB Sig 550 Sniper (http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976490074.htm) for only $17,500

Pre 89ban, too pricey for my tastes but if I had the funds ;)

[XTC]

@ Geezah and Dennis G

Check page 16 :P

http://www.lagardere.ch/catalogue/catalogue.pdf

http://www.gunfactory.ch/waffen.htm

[Geezah]

@ Geezah and Dennis G

Check page 16 :P

http://www.lagardere.ch/catalogue/catalogue.pdf

http://www.gunfactory.ch/waffen.htm

Mate, check out page 17 as well, where is this catalog from? All those 551s and 552s :D

[mountainbear]

Mate, check out page 17 as well, where is this catalog from? All those 551s and 552s
The .ch, in the URL, stands for Confédération Helvétique (Switzerland).

[Geezah]

Mate, check out page 17 as well, where is this catalog from? All those 551s and 552s
The .ch, in the URL, stands for Confédération Helvétique (Switzerland).

Thank you, I just learnt something new :)

[mountainbear]

I must rectify something before I get flamed by a Swiss German, CH stands for Confoederatio Helvetica, in Latin.