F117 in Serbia??

[4nzix]

http://www.vozdra.de/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_Jugoslawische%20Armee%20nehmen%20Stelsbomber%20auseinander.jpg


I just found this pic on BBC. Did they rebuild it already? Or were the Russians doing it?

[MK-ULTRA]

Huh.... think you need some sleep man... no offense! ;)

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

Not sleep, brainsurgery.

[username]

I herd russia and china a jointly developing a stealth fighter...maybe the are usinging technology from the F-117

[maundy]

One got shot down in Kosovo, remember?

[Lokos]

Uhh, that's not the one we shot down. The one we shot down was in very small pieces. And we don't have the capability to rebuild a stealth fighter. For that matter, due to our 60's-70's era AA capability, we got very lucky (despite the obvious ingenuity in planning and organizing the take-down) in just shooting it down.

Those stealth fighters are interesting craft. I like them more than I like your cluster bombs, let's just say. *fond memories of cluster bombs dropping over my head*

Regards,
Lokos

[GazB]

I herd russia and china a jointly developing a stealth fighter...maybe the are usinging technology from the F-117


The only aircraft programs that include stealth technology that are going forward in Russia that I know of is the medium bomber called S-60 which is going very slowly, the PAK-FA project that includes India and might include China if they want, and the Su-34 includes some stealth features. The technology from the F-117 is too old for the Russians to incorporate into a new aircraft. The F-117 was designed at a time when computers were not fast enough to calculate radar reflections off curved surfaces so the F-117 has straight flat surfaces. Looking at the F-22 or the B-2 the same idea is used where the surfaces are designed to reflect radar waves away from the direction they came from so a radar from the front would have trouble seeing your aircraft because most of the energy is reflected sideways away from the radar... and much of the rest is absorbed by the materials the aircraft is made from and coated with. The Russians now have access to computers powerful enough to have curves in the design.

[username]

I herd russia and china a jointly developing a stealth fighter...maybe the are usinging technology from the F-117


The only aircraft programs that include stealth technology that are going forward in Russia that I know of is the medium bomber called S-60 which is going very slowly, the PAK-FA project that includes India and might include China if they want, and the Su-34 includes some stealth features. The technology from the F-117 is too old for the Russians to incorporate into a new aircraft. The F-117 was designed at a time when computers were not fast enough to calculate radar reflections off curved surfaces so the F-117 has straight flat surfaces. Looking at the F-22 or the B-2 the same idea is used where the surfaces are designed to reflect radar waves away from the direction they came from so a radar from the front would have trouble seeing your aircraft because most of the energy is reflected sideways away from the radar... and much of the rest is absorbed by the materials the aircraft is made from and coated with. The Russians now have access to computers powerful enough to have curves in the design.

I will take your word for it

[MK-ULTRA]

One got shot down in Kosovo, remember?

Yeah yeah we do! :)

[GAFES]

The Downing of F-117 #806 "Something Wicked" over Serbia
The military thinks that a combination of clever tactics, quick learning and luck came together in the downing of the F-117a stealth fighter over Serbia.

The F-117's, operating out of the Aviano air base in northern Italy, typically were flying missions at medium altitude, between 15,000ft and 25,000ft. That is close enough to drop their payloads with great accuracy, but out of reach of most of Yugoslavia's anti-aircraft batteries and surface-to-air missiles.

On the fourth night of the air war, March 27, around 8:45 in the evening an F-117 was heading back to base after dropping at least one of its 2,000-pound, laser-guided bombs on a target near heavily defended Belgrade. Suddenly, with little or no warning, an SA-3 missile flying at three times the speed of sound and guided by an improvised network of Serbian radars, exploded in a blast of shell fragments a fewft from the plane, slamming it into an uncontrolled dive. The missile's 130 lb warhead is designed to detonate when it gets within 20 ft of its target. Stunned by the explosion, the pilot struggled against what he said approached pressure five times the force of gravity to yank the handles below his seat to eject from the crippled warplane.

The SA-3 surface-to-air missile that brought down the F-117 was probably not used in a normal fashion, with its operators relying on their own local radars to detect the target leaving them vulnerable to anti-radiation missiles. Spotters in Serbia, and perhaps in Bosnia and along the Montenegrin coast, may have patched together enough quick glimpses of the warplane from scattered radars to track the elusive aircraft, however briefly, and to fire a missile at it from a battery near Belgrade.

Despite the extremely small radar signature of the plane a great amount of time goes into routing the flight path of each stealth fighter to minimize its exposure to known threats such as surface-to-air missile batteries and radar. At certain points in a mission however the stealth fighter can become quite visible to enemy radar. Turning suddenly at low altitudes can reflect radar waves right back to the radars that sent them. The most visible and risky moments are when the bomb bay door is open - briefly making the plane un-stealthy.

Military officials suspect that Serbian spotters, perhaps starting with agents in Italy watching the F-117's take off, were able to determine a time table of how long it took the planes took to cross the Adriatic and from there on to Belgrade. With this information Serbian radar operators had a better sense of when and where to watch for the plane. Once the aircraft's radar reflection crossed their screens all the radar operators would be alerted down the line. When the F-117 dropped one of its two laser guided bombs on a target near Belgrade this probably provided the final clues to fix its position and fire several missiles.

Enough was known to "cue" up the SA-3's own radar so the operator had only to briefly flip it on to track and fire. After the F-117 was shot down other planes on bombing runs recorded instances when the Serbian forces lobbed surface-to-air missiles at them without radar guidance suggesting that this indeed was the tactic used to bring down the stealth jet - minimal or partial radar data guiding a volley of missiles.

Seven hours after the pilot ejected, a commando team snatched the downed pilot from his hiding place and whisked him back to allied hands, first in Bosnia, then to Italy.

Without careful examination of the wreckage some questions may never be answered.

The dense clouds that night may have played a role by allowing the jet black plane to be silhouetted against the dull gray sky by the glow from ground fire reflecting off the cloud ceiling.
Below is data from Janes Information Group on the SA-3 missile:

SA-3 'Goa' (S-125 Neva/Pechora)

TYPE: Short range, ground-based, solid propellant, theatre defence missile.

DEVELOPMENT: Development of the former USSR S-125 Neva air defence missile system, designated SA-3 'Goa' by NATO, began around 1956, at the Lavochkin OKB design bureau. It was designed to complement the SA-2 'Guideline' at low to medium altitudes and is considered by some to be a rough counterpart to the US HAWK system. The design of the SA-3's command guidance system benefitted greatly from earlier work on the SA-2, and the SA-3 system closely paralleled the SA-2D 'Guideline' Mod 3 with its associated 'Fan Song E' engagement radar. The propulsion system was the first Soviet air defence missile to use solid propellant motors in both boost and sustain stages.

DESCRIPTION: The SA-3 missile is a two stage weapon with a large solid propellant jettisonable tandem booster fitted with four large rectangular stabilising fins. One of the unusual features of the design is the configuration of these booster fins. Prior to launch, the fins are folded forward with the leading edge against the booster casing. At launch, they pivot back 90 degrees. The main body is cylindrical in shape with four clipped delta shaped wings with antennas (command and beacon) on the tips aft of mid-point, four small clipped delta moving control fins well forward on the nose taper and four rectangular fins at the rear.

SPECIFICATIONS:


SA-3A
Length: 6.1 m
Body diameter: 0.37 m (booster 0.55 m)
Launch weight: 946 kg
Warhead: 60 kg HE fragmentation
Guidance: Command
Propulsion: Solid propellant
Range: 22 km


SA-3B
Length: 6.1 m
Body diamter: 0.37 (booster 0.55 m)
Launch weight: 950 kg
Warhead: 60 kg HE fragmentation
Guidance: Command
Propulsion: Solid propellant
Range: 18 km

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Missiles/Images/SA-3b.jpg



http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-nn1.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-nn2.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-nn3.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-nn4.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-nn5.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-nn6.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-nn7.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-dcp01494.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-dcp01496.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-dcp01499.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-dcp01500.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-dcp01501.jpg

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-117-dcp01508.jpg

[HUAH]

Uhh, that's not the one we shot down. The one we shot down was in very small pieces. And we don't have the capability to rebuild a stealth fighter. For that matter, due to our 60's-70's era AA capability, we got very lucky (despite the obvious ingenuity in planning and organizing the take-down) in just shooting it down.

Those stealth fighters are interesting craft. I like them more than I like your cluster bombs, let's just say. *fond memories of cluster bombs dropping over my head*

Regards,
Lokos
Even I, an American was awestruck at the news.

[Midav]

Uhh, that's not the one we shot down. The one we shot down was in very small pieces. And we don't have the capability to rebuild a stealth fighter. For that matter, due to our 60's-70's era AA capability, we got very lucky (despite the obvious ingenuity in planning and organizing the take-down) in just shooting it down.

Those stealth fighters are interesting craft. I like them more than I like your cluster bombs, let's just say. *fond memories of cluster bombs dropping over my head*

Regards,
Lokos
Even I, an American was awestruck at the news.

Not attempting to flame, but that's what happenes when people reinvent the word stealth for invisible ;)

[soma]

Aren't we friends with Serbia now? Nice.

[soldierandy]

Looks like a write-off to me... :D