We were soldiers

[mmc2002]

This movie was yesterday on TV here in Germany. In the intro they told, that this movie is based on a real event. So i decided to do some research about this battle.
For everybody who hasn´t sen the movie yet, here is a short information

In November 1965, 450 U.S. soldiers were dropped into a small clearing in the Ia Drang Valley. They were surrounded by 2,000 North Vietnamese soldiers.
I found many sites about this battle in LZ-Xray and LZ-Albany. Actually i found some video from this battle. So here you go...

Lt. Col. Hal Moore interview after the battle
http://www.lzxray.com/moore_comments1.mpg



Footage taken on 15 Nov during the attack on C company. The haze in the background is the smoke of battle (clip 1) (519kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_am1.mpg


Footage taken on 15 Nov during the attack on C company (clip 2) (752kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_am2.mpg


Footage taken on 15 Nov during the attack on C company (clip 3) - note bullet holes in the leaves (922kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_am3.mpg


Wounded being brought to the Aid Station at the CP right after the C Company fight on the morning of November 15. (711KB)
http://www.lzxray.com/wounded2_video.mpg


Wounded being brought to the Aid Station at the CP right after the C Company fight on the morning of November 15. (723KB)
http://www.lzxray.com/wounded1.mpg


Footage taken on 15 Nov. Will show CP area. (681kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_cp1.mpg


Footage of Sugdinis and Moore in the CP area (1.2MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/cp.mpg


Joe Galloway and unidentified radio operator in CP area (1.1MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/cp_galloway.mpg


Myron Diduryk in CP area (580kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/cp_diduryk.mpg


Helicopters taking off on 15 Nov (813kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_helo1.mpg


Helicopters taking off on 15 Nov (373kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_helooff1.mpg


Moore waving helicopters out of the LZ (1.8MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/wavingout.mpg


Unloading ammo (968k)
http://www.lzxray.com/unload_ammo.mpg


Sweep out in front of the foxholes #1 (617kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_patrol1.mpg


Sweep out in front of the foxholes #2 (1 MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/patrol_15nov.mpg


Sweep out in front of the foxholes #3 (914kb)
http://www.lzxray.com/15nov_patrol2.mpg


Policing the battlefield (2.2MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/policebattlefield.mpg


Examining NVA weapons - looks like A Company troops in the dry creek bed (2.6MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/clean_weapons.mpg


Treating Wounded/Evac Dead - graphic warning

http://www.lzxray.com/locate_dead.mpg
http://www.lzxray.com/evacwounded1.mpg
http://www.lzxray.com/evac_wounded2.mpg
http://www.lzxray.com/treatwounded.mpg
http://www.lzxray.com/evac_dead1.mpg
http://www.lzxray.com/evac_dead2.mpg
http://www.lzxray.com/handle_dead.mpg


Checking enemy dead
http://www.lzxray.com/check_enemy_dead.mpg


Prisoners of War waiting evacutation (1.7MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/pow.mpg


Clinton Poley getting treated at Aid Station (2.3MB)
http://www.lzxray.com/poley_aidstation.mpg

If you want to know more about this story. Just visit this website http://www.lzxray.com/

[Johan M]

Oh man, it was horrible, when I was in cinema, the very first scene of the movie I saw an enormous mistake: the french soldiers were wearing their barrets wrong, in the English way rofl

[b33f]

thanks for posting the vids.

can you tell me why the german title is "wir waren helden" (english: "we were heroes")?..

the actual title ("we were soldiers") translated to german would be: "wir waren soldaten"...

[mmc2002]

thanks for posting the vids.

can you tell me why the german title is "wir waren helden" (english: "we were heroes")?..

the actual title ("we were soldiers") translated to german would be: "wir waren soldaten"...

I don´t know. Maybe "Wir waren Helden" sounds more heroical than "Wir waren Soldaten".

[Weasel]

thanks for posting the vids.

can you tell me why the german title is "wir waren helden" (english: "we were heroes")?..

the actual title ("we were soldiers") translated to german would be: "wir waren soldaten"...

Most translations of movie titles are total BS. :(

[Hullebullen]

Good post and thanks for the vids...

[Gringo]

Oh man, it was horrible, when I was in cinema, the very first scene of the movie I saw an enormous mistake: the french soldiers were wearing their barrets wrong, in the English way rofl

how do you mean?

[Solo]

Thanks for the vids.

I have the movie (We Were Soldiers) in dvd, and it's a great movie.

Not as much as Saving Private Ryan and BlackHawk Down, but it's clearly on the same wave.

[Lance Corporal]

I have the movie (We Were Soldiers) in dvd, and it's a great movie.

Not as much as Saving Private Ryan and BlackHawk Down, but it's clearly on the same wave.

A great movie? Are you serious? It's a piece of ****.
I also have it on DVD, I'm glad I didn't pay more than a couple of euros for it.

[Solo]

I have the movie (We Were Soldiers) in dvd, and it's a great movie.

Not as much as Saving Private Ryan and BlackHawk Down, but it's clearly on the same wave.

A great movie? Are you serious? It's a piece of ****.
I also have it on DVD, I'm glad I didn't pay more than a couple of euros for it.

lol

Evidently we're all entitled to have different tastes and perspectives...don't you think

[soldierandy]

Frankly neither Black Hawk Down or We Were Soldiers are anywhere near in the league of Saving Private Ryan.

[Weasel]

Frankly neither Black Hawk Down or We Were Soldiers are anywhere near in the league of Saving Private Ryan.

X2

[wreck]

Frankly neither Black Hawk Down or We Were Soldiers are anywhere near in the league of Saving Private Ryan.

X2
Except the fact that only BHD and We were soldiers really are realistic war movies where the SPR is an adventure (the landing part is naturally excellent).

[Knutsen]

can you tell me why the german title is "wir waren helden" (english: "we were heroes")?..

the actual title ("we were soldiers") translated to german would be: "wir waren soldaten"...

You'd be surprised of how many title changes there are in Spain . The latest example i remember is "National treasure". In spain it is called something like "the searching". :roll:

[tenda]

...we where is not so bad....but bhd or save p.r. are better...
how about platoon....or a bridge too f... .???

[4_tune]

the environment where the movie was shot wasn't even near to the tropical jungle... anybody else feels the same way?

[tenda]

the environment where the movie was shot wasn't even near to the tropical jungle... anybody else feels the same way?
....strange tress ....??....same opinion.... :roll:

[4_tune]

yup, seems like it was shot somewhere in north carolina or somewhere else in U.S, hey, btw, nice outfit tenda in that airsoft thread

[Weasel]

Frankly neither Black Hawk Down or We Were Soldiers are anywhere near in the league of Saving Private Ryan.

X2
Except the fact that only BHD and We were soldiers really are realistic war movies where the SPR is an adventure (the landing part is naturally excellent).

More or less realistic. ;)

[tenda]

yup, seems like it was shot somewhere in north carolina or somewhere else in U.S, hey, btw, nice outfit tenda in that airsoft thread

yes...the location was no too tropical...!! :roll:
.btw..tnx a lot... ;)

[CG51]

full metal jacket is the best war movie ever made... ;)

[Weasel]

full metal jacket is the best war movie ever made... ;)

No, The sound of war is the best war movie ever made. p-)

[janush]

correction....

das boot and full metal jacket :D

[tenda]

...dog's of war...!!! ;)

[CG51]

das boot is excellent...consider that it was made in 1981... :)

[MARINO]

the environment where the movie was shot wasn't even near to the tropical jungle... anybody else feels the same way?
....strange tress ....??....same opinion.... :roll:
It was very reallistic, vietnam has different kinds of environments, is not all like a jungle.

[Solo]

the environment where the movie was shot wasn't even near to the tropical jungle... anybody else feels the same way?
....strange tress ....??....same opinion.... :roll:
It was very reallistic, vietnam has different kinds of environments, is not all like a jungle.

I feel like agreeing.

If you watch the original videos at the start of the thread, there is some resemblance

Seemingly at least.

[Pook2]

It was filmed in the hills of Northern California because of the similarity that area has to the Central Highlands of Vietnam. The only altering to the set they did was to bring in some artificial grasses and trees to fill up the landing zone.

[mmc2002]

It was filmed in the hills of Northern California because of the similarity that area has to the Central Highlands of Vietnam. The only altering to the set they did was to bring in some artificial grasses and trees to fill up the landing zone.

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

Does someone know the Movie "No Man´s Land"? That´s one of my favourite movies.

[tenda]

It was filmed in the hills of Northern California because of the similarity that area has to the Central Highlands of Vietnam. The only altering to the set they did was to bring in some artificial grasses and trees to fill up the landing zone.

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

Does someone know the Movie "No Man´s Land"? That´s one of my favourite movies.
....is that one's located in the ex-jugoslavia :)

[Weasel]

It was filmed in the hills of Northern California because of the similarity that area has to the Central Highlands of Vietnam. The only altering to the set they did was to bring in some artificial grasses and trees to fill up the landing zone.

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

Does someone know the Movie "No Man´s Land"? That´s one of my favourite movies.

I know this movie. Sad movie.

[Macs.]

thanks for posting the vids.

can you tell me why the german title is "wir waren helden" (english: "we were heroes")?..

the actual title ("we were soldiers") translated to german would be: "wir waren soldaten"...

Most translations of movie titles are total BS. :(

"BRINGT MIR DIE M16 HIERHER !" (Als er das M60 verlangt...) :lol:

[mmc2002]

It was filmed in the hills of Northern California because of the similarity that area has to the Central Highlands of Vietnam. The only altering to the set they did was to bring in some artificial grasses and trees to fill up the landing zone.

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

Does someone know the Movie "No Man´s Land"? That´s one of my favourite movies.
....is that one's located in the ex-jugoslavia :)

yes.
Here is some mor info
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283509/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9bm8gbWFucyBsYW5kfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=2;ft=20;fm=1

[CG51]

thanks mmc2002, time to make a trip to blockbuster...

[Sloppy Joe2]

we were soldiers in my opinion is one of the best military movies and those who think that the environment for shooting the movie didnt fit the actual look of Ia Drang Valley the on set advisor from what i hear was Lt Gen Harold G. Moore himself

[Solo]

we were soldiers in my opinion is one of the best military movies and those who think that the environment for shooting the movie didnt fit the actual look of Ia Drang Valley the on set advisor from what i hear was Lt Gen Harold G. Moore himself

That is correct.

I suggest - for those who have the dvd - to watch the documentaries in it.

Very interesting.

[Sloppy Joe2]

by the way the post is very much appreciated mmc2002 thank you woot woot the book is ten times better than the movie too :D

[tenda]

by the way the post is very much appreciated mmc2002 thank you woot woot the book is ten times better than the movie too :D
...the book is definit. better .....!!!! ;)

[Frank Discussion]

It was filmed in the hills of Northern California because of the similarity that area has to the Central Highlands of Vietnam. The only altering to the set they did was to bring in some artificial grasses and trees to fill up the landing zone.

Very interesting. Thanks for the information.

Does someone know the Movie "No Man´s Land"? That´s one of my favourite movies.

I know this movie. Sad movie.

If you liked "No Man's Land" try to check out "Lepa Sela, Lepo Gore", IMO another excellent film about the war in Bosnia.

Another excellent film is Russian film "Chistilische", about the January 1995 operations in Grozny. The film was shot at an abandoned hospital. The combat sequences are really impressive, and IMO is is by far one of the most graphic and realistic war films currently available.

[Azide]

If were talking movies about Balkan wars might as well mention "Savior," and if you want to see a BS movie about the balkans watch Behind Enemy Lines, its got some good action. :)

[tenda]

...bravo two zero in another interesting homevideo..... ;)
.....the book for sure it's even better...!!! ;)

[soldierandy]

Most books that have gone onto movies are better as books. Black Hawk Down was better than I have read in a long time but the movie tried too hard to be true to the book. If you had read the book you could make ends of it. Average folk that are not particularly interested in military affairs found it too long, basically an overlong shoot-out. We were soldiers showed a bit how folk felt back home too, and had more of a story but still as I said like Saving Private Ryan. It might have been a fictional story but it was only about a section of men on a mission in the whole epic of D-Day.

[Opening Batsman]

I thought that movie was crap. :)

[4_tune]

this is vietnam jungle
http://1-22infantry.org/pics/king19.jpg

[callous]

and this is LZ X-Ray
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/kriegsafe/airsoft/misc/xray11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v342/kriegsafe/airsoft/misc/xray1.jpg[/img]

[callous]

Something else that is interesting. The Photographer(Joe Galloway) portrayed in the movie was awarded a Bronze Star Medal with V.

"He is the only civilian to receive a medal from the U.S. Army for valor during the Vietnam War—a Bronze Star with Combat V for rescuing wounded soldiers under fire in the Ia Drang Valley in November 1965. "
http://www.usni.org/Proceedings/Articles02/images02/1galloway02.jpg
]
Galloway brandishes a Swedish K submachinegun at Danang in August 1965.
http://www.usni.org/Proceedings/Articles02/PROgalloway02.htm

[Ratamacue]

Yeah, the specific scene was in the movie, when Galloway helped to rescue that soldier who was hit by friendly napalm.

[Stolly]

Interesting Hollywood ending on that film. Battalion marching off to LZ Albany only to be destroyed as a fighting force enroute in a very well executed ambush is portrayed as a herioc American charge that routs the inferior commie cowards.

Guess they thought that the American public couldn't handle that piece of realism.

[mmc2002]

Another interesting character is Sgt. Maj. Basil Plumley.


In 1965, the grade of "Command" Sergeant Major did not exist.

Plumley was one of the senior Sergeants-Major in the Army. He and Moore served together as Sergeant-Major and Commander for over two years at Fort Benning and in Vietnam.

Plumley made all four combat jumps with the 82nd Airborne in World War II and one in Korea. One of a handful of living men to receive three awards of the Combat Infantryman's Badge, the list of his awards and decorations, starting with two Silver Stars, fill half a page - typed single space.

He was one of the first Command Sergeants Major promoted to that grade in 1969. To this day, there are veterans of the 1/7 CAV who are convinced that God may look like CSM Plumley, but HE is not nearly as tough as the Sergeant Major on sins small or large.

http://www.lzxray.com/plumley.gif


Galloway is on the ground]
Sergeant Major Basil Plumley: You can't take any pictures from down there, son.
[Galloway gets up and is handed a rifle]
Joseph Galloway: I'm a non-combatant.
Sergeant Major Basil Plumley: Ain't no such thing today.

[soldierandy]

How did the battle end in reality? Was it that the helicopters came in at the last minute and minigunned every NVA to pieces as in the movie?

[OldRecon]

How did the battle end in reality? Was it that the helicopters came in at the last minute and minigunned every NVA to pieces as in the movie?
When the Americans received reinforcements next morning and causualties became prohibitive the NVA pulled off. Leaving some weaponry and dead behind.
The initial ambush phase went very well for the NVA, but when they tried to make an all out attempt at cruhsing the US infantry force opposing them they took a heavy beating from US support artillery in nearby firebases, as well as rotary and fixed wing fire support. This despite attempts by elements of NVA of creeping and lying up as close to US positions as possible in order to avoid the worst of the suport fire.
Some NVA also died when US-forces in LZ raked the surrounding treelines with a "mad-minute" fire session at the break of dawn after the first night of the battle.
In terms of attrition the NVA undoubtedly came of worse, but it had been a pretty close run thing for the US infantry elements on the LZ's. Particularly during the first night of the engagement.
NVA were able to break off from the engagement at their own choosing.
US forces in LZ too exhausted and decimated to be able to follow up the NVA retreat from the battlefield closely with ground assets.

As for best war movie, a British movie called "Contact", made during the mid-/late 1980's, about a para-patrol operationg in South Armagh, is one of the more impressive I've seen so far. No sentimental music, allmost no dialog (or sounds ba the panting and footsteps of the depicted patrol) and refreshingly free of any of the swashbuckling hero-bull**** no Hollywood war movie seems to be able to do without (except for maybe Apocalypse Now and Catch 22).
I'm shure realism purists will find loads of wrong details with that movie as well, as with Saving Ryan's privates.. etc, yet I like the uncompromising minimalistic style of that movie.
Otherwise Apocalypse now is by far the best US war movie ever made in my opinion.
Not with regards to historic authenticity perhaps (as vs. Ryan and the Thin red line), but is spot on in my opinion with regards to the metaphysical aspects of war and violence and how the great ideals often don't fit the war at the ground level yet help sustain it in moral terms.
The book by Joseph Conrad on which it is inspired ("Heart of darkness") is also very good. As for other books/films inspiret by "Heart of darkness", "Journey to the end of the night" by Louis-Ferdinand Celiné is also one I can recommend.

[callous]

Prelude
In late October '65, a large North Vietnamese force attacked the Plei Me Special Forces Camp. Troops of the 1st Brigade of the 1st Cavalry were sent into the battle. After the enemy was repulsed in early November, the 3rd Brigade replaced the 1st Brigade . After three days of patrolling without any contact, Hal Moore's 1st Battalion, 7th Cavalry was ordered to air assault into the Ia Drang Valley on Nov 14. his mission: Find and kill the enemy!
At 10:48 AM, on November 14th, Moore was the first man out of the lead chopper to hit the landing zone, firing his M16 rifle. Little did Moore and his men suspect that FATE had sent them into the first major battle of the Vietnam War between the American Army and the People's Army of Vietnam - Regulars - and into history.

Day 1
Lead elements of the under strength 450 man 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry air assault into a small clearing in scrub jungle below the 2300 foot Chu Pong Massif. Within an hour, a fierce battle is underway between the American Air Cav troopers and the aggressive 9th Bn of the 66th Regiment of the Peoples Army of Vietnam - North Vietnamese Regulars. The American Commander, Lt. Col Moore, fighting on the ground with his men, is faced with three on-going tasks to be accomplished simultaneously:

First: To shuttle in the rest of his men from 14 miles to the rear on 16 Huey helicopters.
Next: Holding onto the clearing so that the Hueys can land and take off.
Lastly: To carry the fight to the numerically superior force as far into the jungle as possible so as to control the edges of the clearing.
It is quickly apparent that the enemy force is determined to overrun and kill every American on the field. The afternoon is consumed in a desperate fire-storm battle for survival in 100 degree heat for Moore and his men as the PAVN commander throws the 7th Bn of the 66th and a composite battalion of the 33rd Regt in a furious attack against the 7th Cavalry left flank and center. In the action, a 29 man Cavalry platoon is surrounded by 200 enemy. Employing massive air and artillery fire support, the disciplined Cavalrymen hold onto the landing zone clearing against 7-1 odds and cause the PAVN units to fall back and break contact by late afternoon. During the action, brave Huey pilots land their choppers under fire during the action to bring in ammo and water and carry out wounded. A reinforcing Cavalry company flies in just before dark. During the fighting that day, the 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry is reduced to approximately 340 officers and men; none missing. PAVN casualties are much higher due to awesome American fire support; six enemy are captured and evacuated

LZ XRay, Day 2
Before dawn, Moore orders his company commanders to meet him prior to an attack to rescue the still cut-off platoon. Before this meeting takes place, the PAVN launch a heavy attack which shatters the early-morning stillness like a huge explosion. The attack is carried out by the 7th Bn, 66th Regiment and the H-15 Main Force Viet Cong Bn.

C Company of the Cavalry Battalion bears the brunt of the assault and is soon involved in hand to hand combat. The right portion of D/1/7 is also struck. The code word "Broken Arrow" is sent out over the radio by the Battalion Forward Air Controller. Within minutes, all available fighter bombers in South Vietnam are headed for X-ray to render close air support to "an American unit in grave danger of being overrun". A 3 hour battle that features non-stop 105mm artillery, aerial rockets, and determined American Infantrymen, results in Charlie Company holding it's ground in a stunning display of personal courage and unit discipline. But it pays a terrible price - no officers left and only 49 men unhurt. 42 officers and men killed; 20 wounded. Scores of slain North Vietnamese and their weapons litter the bloody battleground.

At noon, the 2nd Bn, 5th Cavalry marches into X-ray from a landing zone 2 miles east. Joining with the 7th Cavalry parent company of the cut-off platoon, it continues out unopposed, rescues it, and brings it back with all wounded and dead. Of the 29 man platoon, 9 killed and 13 wounded. When reached, the platoon, which had lost its Platoon leader, Platoon Sgt, and one Squad leader killed, had ammo left to fight with under the leadership of a 3 stripe "Buck Sergeant" Squad Leader. C Co 1/7 Cav survivors are replaced on line by the fresh B Co 2nd Bn, 7th Cavalry. The battalion now forms a strong perimeter and prepares for more action in the night. All American dead and wounded are evacuated.

LZ X-Ray Day 3
The PAVN Commander, knows that he had severely weakened and damaged the defenders in the Charlie Co sector the previous morning. What he does not know is that a fresh company - B Co 2nd Bn 7th Cav, had taken over the position after that engagement. That company, unmolested the previous afternoon, had cut fields of fire, dug new foxholes, fired in artillery concentrations, carefully emplaced it's machine guns and piled up ammunition.

The PAVN assaults four separate times beginning at 4:22 AM. The last is at 6:27 AM. They are stopped cold, losing over 200 dead. B Co has 6 wounded. At 9:55 AM, a sweep outward is made which results in more enemy dead and the position secured.

At 10:40 AM, the 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry, having lost 79 men killed and 121 wounded is ordered back to the rear for reorganization. By 3:00 PM, 1/7 CAV had turned over X-ray to the 2nd Bn, 5th Cav and the 2nd Bn, 7th CAV and is flying back to the Camp Holloway airfield at Pleiku City.

At the conclusion of X-ray, the sister battalion of 1/7 CAV, 2/7 CAV, was ordered to march to Landing Zone Albany for extraction from the battle area and to get out of the beaten area for an impending B52 strike. The fight of 2/7 CAV at Albany is the next chapter of the Ia Drang Campaign.

http://www.weweresoldiers.net/campaign.htm


Interesting Hollywood ending on that film. Battalion marching off to LZ Albany only to be destroyed as a fighting force enroute in a very well executed ambush is portrayed as a herioc American charge that routs the inferior commie cowards.

Guess they thought that the American public couldn't handle that piece of realism.

It's the 2/7 that gets ambushed on the way to LZ Albany not the 1/7.
If you want to learn about that battle. You can go here http://www.lzxray.com/albany_o.htm

Many historians claim that the 230 American lives lost during the fighting at LZs Albany and X-ray versus the loss of more than 1,000 NVA soldiers by body count and 1,000 more estimated killed was a decided victory.

General Chu's command was all but destroyed by the b52 strike on the Chu Pong Heights. They then retreated into Cambodia. General Kinnard then requested permission to pursue the enemy into Cambodia. His request was approved by Westmoreland and Henry Cabot Lodge, But it was denied by Washington.

[Sloppy Joe2]

ohh yeah cant forget about the thin red line very impressive think i might go watch it right now :D

[skunker]

Guys, for your information, one of the characters potrayed in the film (I forgot his name) was killed in the 9-11 NYC attack.

[Stolly]

Prelude
In late October '65, a large North Vietnamese force attacked the Plei Me Special Forces Camp. Troops of the 1st Brigade of the 1st Cavalry were sent into the battle. After the enemy was repulsed in early November, the 3rd Brigade replaced the 1st Brigade . After three days of patrolling without any contact, Hal Moore's 1st Battalion, 7th Cavalry was ordered to air assault into the Ia Drang Valley on Nov 14. his mission: Find and kill the enemy!
At 10:48 AM, on November 14th, Moore was the first man out of the lead chopper to hit the landing zone, firing his M16 rifle. Little did Moore and his men suspect that FATE had sent them into the first major battle of the Vietnam War between the American Army and the People's Army of Vietnam - Regulars - and into history.

Day 1
Lead elements of the under strength 450 man 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry air assault into a small clearing in scrub jungle below the 2300 foot Chu Pong Massif. Within an hour, a fierce battle is underway between the American Air Cav troopers and the aggressive 9th Bn of the 66th Regiment of the Peoples Army of Vietnam - North Vietnamese Regulars. The American Commander, Lt. Col Moore, fighting on the ground with his men, is faced with three on-going tasks to be accomplished simultaneously:

First: To shuttle in the rest of his men from 14 miles to the rear on 16 Huey helicopters.
Next: Holding onto the clearing so that the Hueys can land and take off.
Lastly: To carry the fight to the numerically superior force as far into the jungle as possible so as to control the edges of the clearing.
It is quickly apparent that the enemy force is determined to overrun and kill every American on the field. The afternoon is consumed in a desperate fire-storm battle for survival in 100 degree heat for Moore and his men as the PAVN commander throws the 7th Bn of the 66th and a composite battalion of the 33rd Regt in a furious attack against the 7th Cavalry left flank and center. In the action, a 29 man Cavalry platoon is surrounded by 200 enemy. Employing massive air and artillery fire support, the disciplined Cavalrymen hold onto the landing zone clearing against 7-1 odds and cause the PAVN units to fall back and break contact by late afternoon. During the action, brave Huey pilots land their choppers under fire during the action to bring in ammo and water and carry out wounded. A reinforcing Cavalry company flies in just before dark. During the fighting that day, the 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry is reduced to approximately 340 officers and men; none missing. PAVN casualties are much higher due to awesome American fire support; six enemy are captured and evacuated

LZ XRay, Day 2
Before dawn, Moore orders his company commanders to meet him prior to an attack to rescue the still cut-off platoon. Before this meeting takes place, the PAVN launch a heavy attack which shatters the early-morning stillness like a huge explosion. The attack is carried out by the 7th Bn, 66th Regiment and the H-15 Main Force Viet Cong Bn.

C Company of the Cavalry Battalion bears the brunt of the assault and is soon involved in hand to hand combat. The right portion of D/1/7 is also struck. The code word "Broken Arrow" is sent out over the radio by the Battalion Forward Air Controller. Within minutes, all available fighter bombers in South Vietnam are headed for X-ray to render close air support to "an American unit in grave danger of being overrun". A 3 hour battle that features non-stop 105mm artillery, aerial rockets, and determined American Infantrymen, results in Charlie Company holding it's ground in a stunning display of personal courage and unit discipline. But it pays a terrible price - no officers left and only 49 men unhurt. 42 officers and men killed; 20 wounded. Scores of slain North Vietnamese and their weapons litter the bloody battleground.

At noon, the 2nd Bn, 5th Cavalry marches into X-ray from a landing zone 2 miles east. Joining with the 7th Cavalry parent company of the cut-off platoon, it continues out unopposed, rescues it, and brings it back with all wounded and dead. Of the 29 man platoon, 9 killed and 13 wounded. When reached, the platoon, which had lost its Platoon leader, Platoon Sgt, and one Squad leader killed, had ammo left to fight with under the leadership of a 3 stripe "Buck Sergeant" Squad Leader. C Co 1/7 Cav survivors are replaced on line by the fresh B Co 2nd Bn, 7th Cavalry. The battalion now forms a strong perimeter and prepares for more action in the night. All American dead and wounded are evacuated.

LZ X-Ray Day 3
The PAVN Commander, knows that he had severely weakened and damaged the defenders in the Charlie Co sector the previous morning. What he does not know is that a fresh company - B Co 2nd Bn 7th Cav, had taken over the position after that engagement. That company, unmolested the previous afternoon, had cut fields of fire, dug new foxholes, fired in artillery concentrations, carefully emplaced it's machine guns and piled up ammunition.

The PAVN assaults four separate times beginning at 4:22 AM. The last is at 6:27 AM. They are stopped cold, losing over 200 dead. B Co has 6 wounded. At 9:55 AM, a sweep outward is made which results in more enemy dead and the position secured.

At 10:40 AM, the 1st Bn, 7th Cavalry, having lost 79 men killed and 121 wounded is ordered back to the rear for reorganization. By 3:00 PM, 1/7 CAV had turned over X-ray to the 2nd Bn, 5th Cav and the 2nd Bn, 7th CAV and is flying back to the Camp Holloway airfield at Pleiku City.

At the conclusion of X-ray, the sister battalion of 1/7 CAV, 2/7 CAV, was ordered to march to Landing Zone Albany for extraction from the battle area and to get out of the beaten area for an impending B52 strike. The fight of 2/7 CAV at Albany is the next chapter of the Ia Drang Campaign.

http://www.weweresoldiers.net/campaign.htm


Interesting Hollywood ending on that film. Battalion marching off to LZ Albany only to be destroyed as a fighting force enroute in a very well executed ambush is portrayed as a herioc American charge that routs the inferior commie cowards.

Guess they thought that the American public couldn't handle that piece of realism.

It's the 2/7 that gets ambushed on the way to LZ Albany not the 1/7.
If you want to learn about that battle. You can go here http://www.lzxray.com/albany_o.htm

Many historians claim that the 230 American lives lost during the fighting at LZs Albany and X-ray versus the loss of more than 1,000 NVA soldiers by body count and 1,000 more estimated killed was a decided victory.

General Chu's command was all but destroyed by the b52 strike on the Chu Pong Heights. They then retreated into Cambodia. General Kinnard then requested permission to pursue the enemy into Cambodia. His request was approved by Westmoreland and Henry Cabot Lodge, But it was denied by Washington.

I know, I didn't say what battalion. One company from 2/7 was part of the main x-ray action. It could be argued that since the Albany ambush involved some of the same people, the NVA side was commanded by the same person, with walking distance of X-Ray and in the same time frame that this was in fact the second phase of the same battle. My point still stands. It happened, it was in the book, but it totally failed to get even a mention in the credits in the film. Instead we have a totally ficticious charge with a "happy" ending.

[Stolly]

Guys, for your information, one of the characters potrayed in the film (I forgot his name) was killed in the 9-11 NYC attack.

Actually no he wasn't in the film. He was written out, and his actions played by another character, the Ukranian.

The person you are thinking of was an Englishman called Ray *****cola (sp) who later became an American citizen (or already was at this time, i forget) and was head of security at Merrill Lynch on 9/11.

I don't know why he was written out, but Mel Gibson has a record of ill-feeling towards the English and the British monarchy in particular. I did actually once count how many times he was mentioned in the book compared to the Ukranian, Ray came out on top by a factor of 2 or 3. It seems strange that he should be written out, even though his actions were so central to the story that they had to be given to someone else.

[Stolly]

How did the battle end in reality? Was it that the helicopters came in at the last minute and minigunned every NVA to pieces as in the movie?

No, that is fictional.

The NVA broke contact and melted away, having being fought to a standstill. A certain victory for the US. The rest of 2/7 helo'd in to support 1/7 and the one company they already had there. They did clean up of the area and then marched of to another LZ to extract since X-ray was too small to get everyone out in a reasonable time.

2/7 was ambushed on the way and was destroyed as a fighting force, some companies disintegrated entirely. A certain victory for the NVA.

Overall, a marginal victory for the US since they won in terms of bodycount but the NVA took from this the experience that they can beat the US forces, as evidenced by the destruction of 2/7.

[DeathBeforeDishonor]

http://www.wtj.com/articles/xray/ =Very good flash anamations about the battle

www.lzxray.com = VERY GOOD wbsite all about the Ia Drang Valley battle

[mmc2002]

www.lzxray.com = VERY GOOD wbsite all about the Ia Drang Valley battle

I already posted this page. just have a look at the first post of this thread. ;)

[RS_Leo1A5]

You'd be surprised of how many title changes there are in Spain . The latest example i remember is "National treasure". In spain it is called something like "the searching". :roll:
Here in Germany "National Treasure" is called "Das Vermächtnis der Tempelritter" ("The legacy of the Knights Templar"). The literal translation would be "Nationalschatz".
Decide which one sounds better...

[DeathBeforeDishonor]

www.lzxray.com = VERY GOOD wbsite all about the Ia Drang Valley battle

I already posted this page. just have a look at the first post of this thread. ;)

Very sorry I must have missed that :oops:

Thanks for not being a jerk about it and saying"OMG WTF I already posted that you retard" like has happened before ;)

[Freeman]

You'd be surprised of how many title changes there are in Spain . The latest example i remember is "National treasure". In spain it is called something like "the searching". :roll:
Here in Germany "National Treasure" is called "Das Vermächtnis der Tempelritter" ("The legacy of the Knights Templar"). The literal translation would be "Nationalschatz".
Decide which one sounds better...
an other example ist "Cragle to the grave". in germany it is called "born to die"(still in english, but easier to understand)
/off topic

I enjoyd watching the movie. Much better than most other war movies.

[DeathBeforeDishonor]

You'd be surprised of how many title changes there are in Spain . The latest example i remember is "National treasure". In spain it is called something like "the searching". :roll:
Here in Germany "National Treasure" is called "Das Vermächtnis der Tempelritter" ("The legacy of the Knights Templar"). The literal translation would be "Nationalschatz".
Decide which one sounds better...
an other example ist "Cragle to the grave". in germany it is called "born to die"(still in english, but easier to understand)
/off topic

I enjoyd watching the movie. Much better than most other war movies.

I never knew they did this, it's kinda interesting. I wish here in the US we could get more mainstream foregin films.

[Howie Kaluha]

Wow! Great collection of vids......

[Zapp Brannigan]

Guys, for your information, one of the characters potrayed in the film (I forgot his name) was killed in the 9-11 NYC attack.

Actually no he wasn't in the film. He was written out, and his actions played by another character, the Ukranian.

The person you are thinking of was an Englishman called Ray *****cola (sp) who later became an American citizen (or already was at this time, i forget) and was head of security at Merrill Lynch on 9/11.

I don't know why he was written out, but Mel Gibson has a record of ill-feeling towards the English and the British monarchy in particular. I did actually once count how many times he was mentioned in the book compared to the Ukranian, Ray came out on top by a factor of 2 or 3. It seems strange that he should be written out, even though his actions were so central to the story that they had to be given to someone else.
His name was Rick Rescorla. If you feel compelled to defend his honor while attacking Gibson's, please try getting the facts straight first.

Also, Rescorla was Cornish, not English, so even assuming Gibson's anti-English bias (as seen in Braveheart and The Patriot), it wouldn't explain the script changes.

BTW, "*****cola"? What are you drinking? rofl

The sergeant who took command of the Lost Platoon (the one whose platoon leader took them on a chase after an NVA soldier outside the perimeter, where they were cut off) is a good friend of mine. We used to work together at Fort Benning. He wasn't impressed by the movie.

[Laconian]

We Were Soldiers was filmed, partially at Hunter-Liggett, in Northern CA which used to be the manuever area for the 7th ID. The movie varied a good deal from the book, but that is almost always the case so the movie isn't too long and can be made more cinematic, I guess. Some folks get written out or stories altered because it is hard to develope characters on the 400 or so troops that make up a battalion. Also, Moore's family didn't stay at Benning during his deployment, they went according to the book, to Auburn, AL. It is not emphasized in the movie, that several of the officers & NCOs, especially two of 1/7 Company COs were on their 2nd combat tours. Tony Nadal, A CO., had already done an SF tour and one of the other COs had done an Advisor tour.

The value of the book was a comparison that can be drawn between the 1/7 Cav & the 2/7 Cav experiences during the battle. Whereas Moore had trained and commanded his Bn for about 18 months by the time of the battle, LTC Jones had commanded for a matter of days and was a replacement Bn Cdr during the ambush that later occurred at LZ Albany. He barely got a chance to know his men, let alone to train them so they knew him.

What made the movie good in my opinion is that it didn't put forth any of the Hollywood drivel that infects movies about the US in VN. No baby killing, dope smoking, ill-led, ill-trained mobs; but a well-led, well disciplined unit that engaged the enemy, developed the situation and brought maximum combat power to bear. It showed the committment of one unit to their mission and each other. Both of those values are a direct result of their commander's influence.

[callous]

The two main problems I have with the movie was the ending, They didn't need the charge at the end and the irish/gaelic music. other than that I thought it was cool.

[CG51]

one of my favorite WWII movies is Cross of Iron...its old but i love it...it tries to convey the savagery of the Eastern Front...with success...

[skunker]

one of my favorite WWII movies is Cross of Iron...its old but i love it...it tries to convey the savagery of the Eastern Front...with success...

Way to get off topic......

Back to "We Were Soldiers". I was part of the team that developed the website for the film....it was a film that could've been better and should've had a better appeal...but it was about Vietnam.

[Sloppy Joe2]

Laconian i totally agree :D and thank you for the flash link DeathBeforeDishonor very interesting woot

[Airborneranger4israel]

i cant stand mel gibson , sorry its my jewish bias, if had seen the passion and you weren't a jew you wouldnt notice the antisemitism most likely, but please dont start a flame war

[Stolly]

Guys, for your information, one of the characters potrayed in the film (I forgot his name) was killed in the 9-11 NYC attack.

Actually no he wasn't in the film. He was written out, and his actions played by another character, the Ukranian.

The person you are thinking of was an Englishman called Ray *****cola (sp) who later became an American citizen (or already was at this time, i forget) and was head of security at Merrill Lynch on 9/11.

I don't know why he was written out, but Mel Gibson has a record of ill-feeling towards the English and the British monarchy in particular. I did actually once count how many times he was mentioned in the book compared to the Ukranian, Ray came out on top by a factor of 2 or 3. It seems strange that he should be written out, even though his actions were so central to the story that they had to be given to someone else.
His name was Rick Rescorla. If you feel compelled to defend his honor while attacking Gibson's, please try getting the facts straight first.

Also, Rescorla was Cornish, not English, so even assuming Gibson's anti-English bias (as seen in Braveheart and The Patriot), it wouldn't explain the script changes.

BTW, "*****cola"? What are you drinking? rofl

The sergeant who took command of the Lost Platoon (the one whose platoon leader took them on a chase after an NVA soldier outside the perimeter, where they were cut off) is a good friend of mine. We used to work together at Fort Benning. He wasn't impressed by the movie.

lol i was going by memory, i wasn't a million miles away :P

Cornwall is in England btw, has been since England existed in its present form. Being Cornish is not exclusive to being English, last time i was there.

[CG51]

one of my favorite WWII movies is Cross of Iron...its old but i love it...it tries to convey the savagery of the Eastern Front...with success...

Way to get off topic......

Back to "We Were Soldiers". I was part of the team that developed the website for the film....it was a film that could've been better and should've had a better appeal...but it was about Vietnam.

:petting:

[ronin2172]

Otherwise Apocalypse now is by far the best US war movie ever made in my opinion.

I disagree....Platoon is far better than Apocalypse Now. It was more realistic, better characters ...where in apacolypse now can u find chracters as good as Barnes or Elias? Did u truly find Brando believeable as a Green Beret officer?; a logical plot (not a mismash of unrelated events formed into a plot), and other than the helicopter assault on the VC villiage Platoon had better scenes. Apocalypse Now is a perfect example of self indulgent film making at it's best. The last good film copola made was the Godfather II

[Zapp Brannigan]

lol i was going by memory, i wasn't a million miles away :P

Cornwall is in England btw, has been since England existed in its present form. Being Cornish is not exclusive to being English, last time i was there.Rescorla wasn't just from Cornwall, he was Cornish, and was known for singing Celtic songs. No doubt he had English ancestry in there as well, but the Cornish aspect was a point of personal pride. So to the extent he was English, he would have been the kind of Englishman to appeal to Gibson, so his ethnicity doesn't really explain the script change.

Consolidation of different characters into composite characters is common in movie-making, for various reasons. In Blackhawk Down, Ewan McGregor's and Eric Bana's characters were composites of several actual soldiers, though based primarily on a particular person (Specialist John Stebbins and Master Sergeant John Macejunas, respectively).

In Bana's case, it was because his and William Fichtner's characters were composites of 3 Delta operators - Macejunas, Paul Howe and Norm Hooten. In McGregor's case, it was because former Ranger Stebbins was convicted of child molestation while the movie was being made, so the character was rewritten, with aspects of other Rangers added to make him less "Stebby".

[c46thva]

I used to work with a guy who was at X-ray, some of ths stories he would tell would make your hair stand on end. His name was John Setlin (SP) and he is in the book but not the movie. He was very dissapointed in the film as a historical account but liked the fact that it wasnt preachy or political.
Not to go too far off topic BUT my favourite Nam flick has to be ODD ANGRY SHOT, an aussie film. Followed by the Green Berets. Yes I know the film is very flawed but ya cant beat it for its anti-politcal correctness. It took balls to make that film if you ask me. BTW has anyone ever seen Go tell the Spartans w/ Burt Lancaster?

[Frank Discussion]

Not to go too far off topic BUT my favourite Nam flick has to be ODD ANGRY SHOT, an aussie film. Followed by the Green Berets. Yes I know the film is very flawed but ya cant beat it for its anti-politcal correctness. It took balls to make that film if you ask me. BTW has anyone ever seen Go tell the Spartans w/ Burt Lancaster?

I agree with your opinion of "The Odd Angry Shot", excellent film about the Australians in Vietnam. "The Green Berets" was about as contrived as it gets, but it was unique considering when it was released, as anti-war sentiment in the US was at its peak.

I always thought "Hamburger Hill" was a good Vietnam film. I think "Platoon" came across as a bit cliched, being that it included fragging, rampant drug use, abusing civilians, burning huts and all of the other negative stereotypes about Vietnam. Not that these things didn't happen, but they all didn't have to be included in the same film. Typical Oliver Stone. However the characters in "Platoon" were outstanding.

I never considered "Apocalypse Now" as a typical war film, although the helicopter attack sequence is still inspiring.

[plodey]

Interesting Hollywood ending on that film. Battalion marching off to LZ Albany only to be destroyed as a fighting force enroute in a very well executed ambush is portrayed as a herioc American charge that routs the inferior commie cowards.

Guess they thought that the American public couldn't handle that piece of realism.

The book (by Moore) goes into this in a lot more detail about this ambush. In the movie they should have ditched the training scenes, and the american mom back at home scenes and just focused on the battles!

[Johan M]

Oh man, it was horrible, when I was in cinema, the very first scene of the movie I saw an enormous mistake: the french soldiers were wearing their barrets wrong, in the English way rofl

how do you mean?

this is the French way:

http://www.2rep.com/01pg_stgnh/01Regiment/cdc/cdc12.jpg

picture comes from the site www.2rep.com


this is the English way, most armies wear their barrets in this way:

http://www2.mil.fi/merivoimat/joukot/uudpr/11072003_6.jpg

so if a filmmaker makes this kind of mistake in a movie, in my opinion he is a big amateur! :)