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budanski
03-23-2003, 01:13 AM
CROCODILE TEARS

By RALPH PETERS

March 10, 2003 -- I SPENT last month in Africa, pausing for a respectful visit to Robben Island, the former prison that confined Nelson Mandela for two decades. It was a physically beautiful setting spoiled by humankind's past intolerance and by the crocodile tears of European tourists.

Young and old, the German, French and Dutch visitors deplored what had been done to one of the great men of the last century - who remains a powerful, if aging and erratic, voice in the cause of freedom.

I certainly shared their regret at the suffering imposed on Mr. Mandela and his comrades. But I wanted to smack the lot of them and yell, "What about the Iraqis? Don't they matter, you smug, little hypocrites?"

As deplorable as conditions were on Robben Island during the imprisonment of South Africa's champions of freedom, they were civilized compared to the treatment of uncounted thousands of Iraqis at the hands of Saddam and his henchmen.

I do not underestimate the crimes of the apartheid regime. Yet, despicable though that government was, it didn't use nerve gas on thousands of men, women and children, torture children in front of their parents, rape wives in front of their husbands, exterminate entire families and clans on a whim, or slaughter minority populations.

Those Euro-trash tourists were right to mourn what had been done. But why on earth didn't they care about the present sufferings of their fellow human beings?

The sorry truth is that Europeans love to cry over corpses, but won't lift a finger to prevent the killing in the first place. They shake their heads over the Holocaust, though their parents were happy enough to pack the local Jews off to Auschwitz.

The French grudgingly accept that their intellectuals defended Stalin long after evidence of his crimes came to light, but they avoid the issue of how many of their thinkers and artists admired Hitler and profited from the Occupation (French cafes and cabarets boomed under the Nazis).

Was there ever an African dictator the French didn't adore? The Dutch criticize America's military as trigger-happy, but their own troops didn't fire a shot in defense of the Muslims of Srebrenica, who they had been tasked to protect and whose slaughter was the worst single massacre on European soil since the end of the Second World War.

When I served in Europe in the '70s, Chairman Mao prefigured Viagra in his effect upon the European Left. Of course, the Soviet Union remained noble and virtuous until the end, its failure to construct heaven on earth explained away by American scheming and malevolence. Today, Europeans dismiss their historical guilt toward Jews by insisting that Israel is as bad as Nazi Germany - a Big Lie worthy of Hitler and Goebbels - while cheering on Israel's genocidal enemies.

What can we do in the face of such a profound lack of honesty, morality or even decency? How can we work constructively with those for whom evidence only matters when it supports their prejudices?

What shall we make of those who would let millions die at the hands of tyrants while accusing America of aggression for opposing the killers?

The short answer is: Not much. In the longer term, though, we must accept the fact that states such as France and Germany have declined to the mentality of yesteryear's Mexico, blaming the United States for all their failures and defining themselves not in positive terms, but merely as the anti-America.

We must accept, from today onward, that America shall often need to act alone or with a handful of courageous allies. Increasingly, we will need to do that which we recognize as strategically and morally necessary, disregarding those states, in Europe and elsewhere, that weep so readily for the dead while caring so little for the living.

We must accept the world's jealousy as a given and must not become distracted by attempts to placate European racists who refuse to set high standards for governance in developing states. Indeed, nothing so abets tyranny and oppression today as French and German condescension toward black, brown or yellow populations - and their unspoken conviction that nonwhites remain inferior.

When Robert Mugabe, the Stalin of Zimbabwe, is welcome in Paris, while the French government takes pains to insult Colin Powell, you have a very clear illustration of the ethics of French diplomacy. The current wave of jokes about the French are ill-judged only in the sense that the French impulse toward racial totalitarianism is no laughing matter. Ask the populations of Ivory Coast or Rwanda. Or Algeria. Or of the brown and black suburbs of Paris.

Of course, sincere allies will always be welcome in this new century of struggle between post-modern freedoms and the bankrupt sur-realpolitik of Paris and Berlin. And we must distinguish, of course, between Europe's freedom-loving frontier states, either on the Atlantic periphery or in the east, and the twilight states of "Old Europe."

Our natural allies are those who either have pioneered democracy, such as Britain, or who have struggled long and hard for their freedom - Poland, Hungary, Spain and so many others who suffered under Communism or fascism.

Saddam looks very different to a Romanian or Latvian than he does to a German or a Frenchman. The Frenchman sees a tantalizing business proposition, while, as a friend of mine serving in the Gulf remarked, "The Germans can't help loving Saddam. He's a dictator with a mustache . . ."

Beyond Europe, America's efforts to face down tyrants are resisted by - surprise! - tyrants. The United Nations never had the strategic relevance its partisans insist Washington's liberation of Iraq will destroy. We should not seek to harm the U.N., but we cannot prevent it from slashing its own wrists.

We Americans can expect neither gratitude, understanding nor support from the baroque regimes of France, Germany and their fellow travelers. Chancellor Schroeder? Bill Clinton without the moral fiber. President Chirac? The mouth of de Gaulle, the soul of Petain, and the morals of a pimp. Humanitarian Belgium? Yeah, just ask the Congolese. The European anti-war movement? Necrophiliacs licking the corpse of Josef Stalin.

Europeans will always be willing to weep over the dead. The United States must take a stand for the living. In Iraq. And beyond.


-Ralph Peters just returned from a monthlong trip to South Africa and Zimbabwe. He is the author of "Beyond Terror: Strategy in a Changing World."

budanski
03-23-2003, 02:25 AM
A message from our troops in Iraq

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,252167,00.jpg

Minjin
03-23-2003, 03:43 PM
It has been stated elsewhere in the forums that Germany just can't afford to go to war, so I think the treatment they are recieving is unfair, but maybe that's just me....

Kitsune
03-23-2003, 03:52 PM
Ralph Peters is simply an arrogant idiot.

morlick
03-23-2003, 04:53 PM
Ralph Peters is simply an arrogant idiot.

Exactly,
hey Bud if you are so "courageous" try to go in Bagdad to fight against Iraqi,
ça nous fera des vacances.

warchild1/27scout
03-23-2003, 08:22 PM
no question about it.for france and germany it's pure self interest.so we have to protect our self interest

rafaelcb
03-24-2003, 04:00 AM
Just a note.

Most of Europe supports US fight in Irak. Only France, Germany and Belgium are clearly against it. Netherlands is in the coalition. So please do not identify 'Europe' with France and Germany.

And I feel ashamed that my country troops are not fighting along our allies now that things don't seem so easy.

Best Regards,

Rafael

Sulph8
03-24-2003, 06:42 AM
And which country is yours??

Kitsune
03-24-2003, 07:31 AM
Ahem rafaelcb...just to set things straight here:
Wether one likes it or not, most of Europe does NOT support the war according to the polls.
And even the members of the coalition are, for the most part, NOT fighting along the US side. (Britain excluded).
Take for example Spain. I still remember the picture of Aznar on the Azores: standing between Bush and Blair. The Windbag! The Spanish send non fighting support troops 900 in strength! LOL. Others are even worse: the Danish are "supporting" this war...with words and nothing more.
What really makes me mad is...that we (Germans) really did something to help the Americans as long we believed in it. I must admit that we still do not have truly intervention capable armed forces, which is of course our fault. But we truly send as much soldiers to Afghanistan as we could, more than any other european country by the way. And they are still there. But this is forgotten, because we did not side with the americans as far as Iraq is concerned. Whereas others like Portugal, Spain, Denmark who are supporting the US with much less actual help...or even with words only, are now their friends, whereas "Germany stinks". Perhaps this should be a lesson to us how to do it?

I personally are against this war. Just barely I must admit. It is not that I am a pacifist, which I am not. And definiteley I do not like Saddam, mustache or not.
I think that many reasons the Bush administration states are simply rubbish. The US threatened, because of Iraq? The terrible arsenal of Iraqi WMDs? Garbage. Don't get me wrong...I believe Hussein wants to have them. And I think he will have some hidden somewhere. But threatening the US with these? Give them to his Al Qaida "pals"? Which are in fact his mortal enemies? I don't think so. If he would, Al Qaida could even use them agaimst him. Now or in ten years. Or attack the US and leave a trail that leads to Baghdad...and sit back watching while one of their enemies destroys another one (which could be what they are doing now). In any case I simply do not believe this "threat" thing. The Bush administrion wants to bring a new order to the near east...and they start with Iraq because they think that Hussein is weak, that is what I think.
That does not mean that there are no reasons for going in. Freeing the iraqi people is the one strong reason I see. The Iraqi people deserve freedom like everyone else. If Saddams could be destroyed this would be a good thing. But...how many people have to die for it? That is the question. Remember, even the US do not attack any country just because it is an dictatorship. Take for example China. They are NOT democratic. If you mess with the ruling regime you get imprisoned or killed. But to invade them...would not be a good idea. So you have to accept them. They even have Veto power at the UN security council. Realpolitik.
Iraq is of course not China. But Saddam could (and would if he can manage) take tens of thousands of civilians with him, befor he leaves this world. Two civil wars can be the result: a sunnit/shiit one in the south and a turkish/kurdish one in the north. They could last for years. International islamistic terrorism could be strengthened not weakened. Even the weak pro western regimes in Jordan and Egypt could go down and be replaced by islamic ones. Egypt with her 65 million people could become an enemy of Israel once again which would make the Near-East conflict even worse.
In the end this could mean that a lot of people have to die and chaos and destruction could outweigh the positive side of freeing the iraqi people by far. And this is why I personally came to the opinion that I am against this war. If I were Bush I would have concentrated on the hunt for terrorists via CIA and Delta/SeALs and not invaded Iraq. But I am not Bush. And it is to late now, anyway. The die is cast.
And of course I could be wrong and all goes well.

Obviously there is a lot of rubbish told on the side of the Against-The-War side. Some are against any war. Others are against it because it is the chic thing. And stupid anti americanism is on the rise. (Whereas in the USA there is a wave of stupid anti-french and anti-german feelings. OMG.) But I have tried to draw my conclusions and to use my own brain. And I think my reasoning makes sense. Ralph Peters clearly does not respect this. And I do not repect him.

Now that this war has started I am in an awkward position. And it would get worse and worse the more my fears were proven right. Hopefully March 23rd was just one bad day. And that I am proven totally wrong in the end. That would be best for everyone.

:(

Vance
03-24-2003, 08:06 AM
It has been stated elsewhere in the forums that Germany just can't afford to go to war, so I think the treatment they are recieving is unfair, but maybe that's just me....
No, they spit on our soldiers. My own race sickens me.

yellowking
03-24-2003, 08:35 AM
I have a lot of family in Germany and have visited many times. IMO, they're pretty much crippled by pacifism due to guilt over WW2 and the holocaust. They've kind of gone from one bad extreme to the other. Their reasons are definitely different than France.

Kitsune
03-24-2003, 09:04 AM
@Vance:
We do not spit on american soldiers. Germany as a whole was (and is still) very open to the US. That is true.
There are anti-war demonstrations.These are the pictures US media now show often when something about Germany is said. Many of those partaking show anti american slogans, yes. But they are not the majority. And lets not forget: There are demonstrations in America (and G.Britain and Spain and Australia and Poland and...in all of these one also sees anti american slogans) as well. And by the way there are a lot of unfair anti-german slogans used in the US, too (see above).

Another thing: If the party that is in the opposition right now here in Germany would rule (and they nearly won the election last summer, it was like the Bush/Gore thing) Germany WOULD support the US in this war.
It is simply not justified to condemn Germany as a whole Vance.

And theres no reason to be sickened...

:petting:

Vance
03-24-2003, 09:32 AM
US soldiers were being spit on by German anti-war protesters, thats what I heard, I could be wrong

darkartsviper
03-24-2003, 09:55 AM
France and Germany wants a stable arab world so they can have good trade with the nations. Oil is always the prize here. It was said that France has a trade relationship with Iraq in exchange for its oil which by the way has the second biggest oil reserves in the world behind saudi arabia

darkartsviper
03-24-2003, 10:08 AM
Those French and Germans did not want to have a fall-out with arab countries cause mostly those countries are huge weapon buyers, not producers.The only good thing about France is they did raise a voice about the palestine issue which in my view is badly ignored by the Bush administration.USA badly needs to win the hearts and mind of the Arab people and do something about the plight of the palestinians so they wont resort to terror tactics which is wrong in any religion.Blowing up people is wrong even in Islam. Too many in the Arab world look up to the terrorists as heroes.The French tried to be friendly to the Arabs but they are wrong in not justifying war against a tyrant who gassed,kill rape his own people.One might remember Emperor Bokassa of the Central African republic whom the French gave moral and financial support to even though he is mad man who fed kid to crocodiles and forced poor kids to wear french style uniform and kill those who cant afford it. France greedily took diamonds from the country's mines and in return ignoring the madman deeds until news of the killings appeared in the press. A madman who likened himself to Napoleon. So f*ck off France and think before trying to prevent justice from being served

darkartsviper
03-24-2003, 10:23 AM
Doesnt mean a country is governed by Islamic administration will be pro-terrorist. As i said earlier violence and murder even suicide bombings are wrong in Islamic law. Suicide itself sends you hell according to islamic teachings so what does suicide and mass murder means? it means the guy goes to hell if he does it War is between soldiers not civilians they are not to be blamed for the goverment faults so this terrorists are wrong in their doing and Muslims everywhere wont support them unless there is a reason to. Bias towards the Palestinian issue,and high-handedness towards dealing with Arabs cause this to happen.Do not give the Arab teenagers to look up to Osama Bin Laden as heroes.Again win hearts and minds. Psychological Operations to win the hearts and mind of the masses so they wont support these hijackers of Islam. This issue the Bush administration must address unless he wants sleeper cells destroying world with terrorism we are fighting an enemy which does not use conventional means to fight.Strike where they are weak in and they will not succeed. (In 9-11, many muslims were killed in the WTC towers too.not just Americans and people of other faiths)

rafaelcb
03-24-2003, 02:02 PM
Wether one likes it or not, most of Europe does NOT support the war according to the polls.
And even the members of the coalition are, for the most part, NOT fighting along the US side. (Britain excluded).

If you talk about public opinion, then you are right. I was referring to government's position. Most of Europe's governments supported the US position.


Take for example Spain. I still remember the picture of Aznar on the Azores: standing between Bush and Blair. The Windbag! The Spanish send non fighting support troops 900 in strength! LOL.

You are also right here. Spain's contribution is quite small, but again Aznar promised he would not send troops without UN approval. Later, when it was obvious that a new UN resolution was not possible, the government invented this extreme case of cynism that is 'non combat troops'. Yes, I am not proud of this. But at least it makes clear in which side you are.

I hope you don't feel offended by my comments in the previous posting. I am just sick of people assuming that Europe=France+Germany

One last thought on all this mess: At least the German Government can claim that they have behaved very properly regarding International relations since WWII. Something that France cannot say.