MPs vote to mark murder of Jews

[EvanL]

OTTAWA—In a rare show of unity, MPs from all parties voted yesterday to create a national day of remembrance in a bid to ensure Canadians never forget the horror of the Holocaust.

But opposition members said the failure of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien to condemn publicly recent anti-Semitic remarks by his Malaysian counterpart shows why a Holocaust Memorial Day is so important.

"The idea of this bill is to ensure not only we remember the Holocaust, but to practice ongoing vigilance on anti-Semitism and racist policies, and to speak out, not to be silent," said New Democrat MP Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg-North Centre).

"For the Prime Minister to shake hands with the prime minister of Malaysia after he said the most heinous of comments in terms of Jewish people is exactly what this bill is trying to prevent."

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamed last week said: "Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them."

That earned him rebukes from world leaders, including U.S. President George W. Bush attending an APEC summit. Chrétien, however, offered Mahathir a handshake and declined comment on the controversial remarks, pointing to Foreign Minister Bill Graham's condemnation of them.

Mahathir, in a Bangkok Post interview published yesterday, reiterated his remarks on Jews.

Wasylycia-Leis tabled a private member's bill calling for a Holocaust remembrance day three years ago, but it languished on the Parliamentary backburner until Bloc Québécois MP Richard Marceau (Charlesbourg - Jacques-Cartier) suggested turning it into an all-party bill, after the death of a friend's father, a Holocaust survivor.

The Senate is expected to expedite the bill's passage.

The memorial day will be Yom Hashoah, the Day of the Holocaust, as set under the Jewish lunar calendar.

In 2004, it falls on April 18, a day to remember the murder of 6 million Jews by the Nazis in World War II.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1066774208497&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

[Andyman]

Sure thats great that they want to make a memorial day but there is one other things that bothers me. Whenever people think about the holocaust its always remembered as a thing that was done only to Jews. Judging by that article it doesnt seem to disprove my point. The holocaust was brought apon Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies, Poles, etc. But it is always remembered as this singular Jewish tragedy and people seem to be fine with that. I say that if it doesnt recognize all the people who suffered then they should not have one at all.

[EvanL]

Well considering the Jews lost the most people (upwards of 6million) who just happened to all be innocent civillians, i think it is alright to consider the Holocaust mainly a Jewish thing. It doesnt mean we cant honour the other groups who were targeted by the horrendous actions of the Nazis.

[mocking_loudly_died]

I'm with you Andyman, why doesn't canada have a memorial day for all the ****ty things that happened to all races in ww2 - christ look what happened to the chinese.

Unless Canada has a massive jewish population.

Pfttt I'm being to high strung

BEER BEER BEER BEER....much better.

[alexjulian]

Whilst not to denigrate the suffering of any people please enlighten me as to when the Chinese were subject to attempted total annihilation including mass murder in gas chambers. To my knowledge the Holocaust was unique in human history unless of course you can prove otherwise.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Bloody hell sun shine, do your own research.

Here is a teaser

http://www.tribo.org/nanking/

80,000 women raped in one place....nah that's not shocking enough for you.

I'm to tired to turn this **** into a numbers / facts game - alot of bloody people suffered in ww2 and that was my initial point.

[Andyman]

A valid point but its like Stalin said "A single death is a Tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic"

I mean its obvious that more jews dies than any other race collectively but that does not rule out their suffering. I mean Jehovah's Witnesses could have easily left the concentration camp by signing a document, denouncing their faith and religious conviction. I think thats very respectable.

[alexjulian]

Yes we all know how the chinese suffered and jehovas witnessesetc etc and i like most sane people would not denigrate this for a second.....but it doesnt change the fact that the Holocaust was a unique event in history

[StarvingStudent47]

But opposition members said the failure of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien to condemn publicly recent anti-Semitic remarks by his Malaysian counterpart shows why a Holocaust Memorial Day is so important.

"The idea of this bill is to ensure not only we remember the Holocaust, but to practice ongoing vigilance on anti-Semitism and racist policies, and to speak out, not to be silent," said New Democrat MP Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg-North Centre).

"For the Prime Minister to shake hands with the prime minister of Malaysia after he said the most heinous of comments in terms of Jewish people is exactly what this bill is trying to prevent."

F--- Jean Chretien. And props to the Canadian Parliament for ignoring his idiocy and doing what is right.

[EvanL]

Amen my friend. Amen.

[usa320]

Amen.

**** chreiten.

[EvanL]

Hes a fictitious PM anyways. Hes out in November.

[StarvingStudent47]

Just to clarify something else. The reason why the Holocaust is mentioned more often than other horrific massacres (the Rape of Nanking, the Khmer Rouge, etc) is NOT because the media values Jewish lives more than other lives, as some would claim. The reasons for the emphasis on the Holocaust are:

1) It was the most highly organized genocide in human history.

2) It was deliberately initiated in peace time; it was not a land war/civil war gone out of control.

3) The country that carried it out had been a democracy a mere decade before. They voted away their freedom and appointed a mass-murderer as a totalitarian leader.

The reason why Jewish victims are focused on more than homo******s or Jehovah's Witnesses is NOT because the media values Jewish lives more than other lives, as some would claim. The reasons for this emphasis on the Jewish victims are:

1) The Nazis themselves made Jews the center of their propaganda campaign. While they wanted gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses, homo******s, etc removed from the Aryan gene pool, it was Jews, and Jews alone, who Hitler blamed for Germany's woes.

2) Jews constituted the majority of the victims of the Holocaust. They outnumbered all other victim groups combined.

3) The toll on the Jewish people worldwide was especially harsh. One out of three Jews on the entire planet were murdered by the Nazis in a five-year period. I am unaware of any other genocide that has come nearly that close to final success, especially in that short of a time frame.

For these reasons, I do not consider the media and the common culture's treatment of the Holocaust to be inappropriate.

[mocking_loudly_died]

So much typing.....

[StarvingStudent47]

So much typing.....

I felt it needed to be said. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from the Holocaust specifically, and that's why I've always held a "never forget" attitude toward it. Even though the Rape of Nanking and the Rwanda civil war were horrible atrocities, I don't think they hold the same lessons for modern America (or modern Canada, etc) that the Holocaust does. It's not about "favoring the Jewish people" like some people are saying.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. Besides, I type very quickly ;)

[mocking_loudly_died]

I totally get your point and if people misconstrue my comments then I'm sorry.

Whoa it's been a long day.

[EvanL]

The Armenian Genocide came pretty close to destroying a whole group of people as well. But nobody remembers that at all. I suggest you guys check up the movie Ararat if you are interested in researching the Armenian Genocide. Its by a Canadian DIrector, Armenian born Atom Egoyan. Excellent film.

[IDFM203]

The Armenian Genocide came pretty close to destroying a whole group of people as well. But nobody remembers that at all. I suggest you guys check up the movie Ararat if you are interested in researching the Armenian Genocide. Its by a Canadian DIrector, Armenian born Atom Egoyan. Excellent film.I will have you know that if you ever go to Jerusalem you will see posters every where about that genocide.

I can’t speak for everywhere, but in Israel they most certainly know about it as well.

[StarvingStudent47]

The Armenian Genocide came pretty close to destroying a whole group of people as well. But nobody remembers that at all. I suggest you guys check up the movie Ararat if you are interested in researching the Armenian Genocide. Its by a Canadian DIrector, Armenian born Atom Egoyan. Excellent film.I will have you know that if you ever go to Jerusalem you will see posters every where about that genocide.

I can’t speak for everywhere, but in Israel they most certainly know about it as well.

There is also a lot of Armenian Genocide remembrance stuff on university campuses nowadays, at least in the northeast USA. It's anything but forgotten.

[Kriz]

Well considering the Jews lost the most people (upwards of 6million) who just happened to all be innocent civillians, i think it is alright to consider the Holocaust mainly a Jewish thing. It doesnt mean we cant honour the other groups who were targeted by the horrendous actions of the Nazis.

I hate to be a bitch but it's a well known fact that the most civilian casulties were on the russian side, around 10 million and another 10 millions russian troops were killed making it a total of 20 million.

Even if those numbers weren't so great nobody ever cares about the poor russian civilians, kinda selfish in my humble opinion.
What makes them any less human then the 6 million jews that died ?

[Herrmannek]

Sure thats great that they want to make a memorial day but there is one other things that bothers me. Whenever people think about the holocaust its always remembered as a thing that was done only to Jews. Judging by that article it doesnt seem to disprove my point. The holocaust was brought apon Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies, Poles, etc. But it is always remembered as this singular Jewish tragedy and people seem to be fine with that. I say that if it doesnt recognize all the people who suffered then they should not have one at all.

Yup. This is **** that memorials are made only for Jews. In all western world is common knowledge about jewish victims of holocaust and none about others wich where preety the same in numbers(but sets had common parts ie: Some Jewes were Poles or Some Poles were Jewes :) ) Hitler ordered to kill Poles without mercy before he ordered to kill Jews



On August 22, 1939, a few days before the official start of World War II, Hitler authorized his commanders, with these infamous words, to kill

"without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space [lebensraum] we need".

Heinrich Himmler echoed Hitler's decree:


"All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles."

Did you know that first people in death camps were Poles not Jews? And if you ask western people about who is guilty for holocaust they probably say that Poles b/c it happened in Poland(probably beacuse they don't know Poles where persecuted too) even in Israel this is common way of thinking.

It's good to make memorials but not in the way presented in article :)

[EvanL]

Well considering the Jews lost the most people (upwards of 6million) who just happened to all be innocent civillians, i think it is alright to consider the Holocaust mainly a Jewish thing. It doesnt mean we cant honour the other groups who were targeted by the horrendous actions of the Nazis.

I hate to be a bitch but it's a well known fact that the most civilian casulties were on the russian side, around 10 million and another 10 millions russian troops were killed making it a total of 20 million.

Even if those numbers weren't so great nobody ever cares about the poor russian civilians, kinda selfish in my humble opinion.
What makes them any less human then the 6 million jews that died ?

Russian civillians werent rounded up and killed systematically. Theres a difference.

[AirZone]

The Armenian Genocide came pretty close to destroying a whole group of people as well. But nobody remembers that at all. I suggest you guys check up the movie Ararat if you are interested in researching the Armenian Genocide. Its by a Canadian DIrector, Armenian born Atom Egoyan. Excellent film.I will have you know that if you ever go to Jerusalem you will see posters every where about that genocide.

I can’t speak for everywhere, but in Israel they most certainly know about it as well.

we do... :(

[pinkeye]

damn, it only took, what? over 50 years? all states should have done this a long, long time ago.

i think we should also recognise the genocide of american indigenous peoples. millions of indigenous americans were deliberately exterminated by the "white man" over several centuries.

[S'13]

Herrmannek, how many non jewish Poles were systematicly murdered out of all the Poles who were murdered by the Nzis? non Jewish Poles under Nazi occupation had a much better status then Jewish Poles, that's for sure. Many Poles helped the Nazis commit atrocities ( Massacre in Jedwabne for example) out of their own will, of course many Poles also helped save Jews. You must keep in mind that the 'Final Solution' was aimed at annihilating the Jews. The annihilation of the Jews was the Nazis first priority and that priority is what created the Holocaust in the first place.

[Mr. Nielsen]

The Second World War started because Hitler wanted to conquer territory and settle it with German settlers, enslaving or annihilating the original inhabitants. First on the line was Poland then the Soviet Union.


StarvingStudent47 wrote

“2) It was deliberately initiated in peace time; it was not a land war/civil war gone out of control.”

A correction for the first part: The deliberate mass murder of Jews happened during the course of total war (the most total in history). What happened before that was racism, Apartheid, lynching and finally ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately seen before and after the Second World War, and It wasn't mass murder yet.

If I am not mistaken, the Nazis first started thinking about annihilating the Jews as late as 1941.

[Andyman]

Rare is a documentary about the Holocaust that gives proper voice of those who were non-jewish and victims of the holocaust as well. I know that this next comment is hear-say. But I can recall hearing that Spielberg wanted to make a documentary about the Holocaust, (something to do with the Washington Holocaust Museum) and when his plans were reviewed they were rejected on the basis that he did not give proper mention of non-jews who suffered in the holocaust. He then reorganized the documentary and made an acceptable version.

Like I said earlier choose to believe what you want as I have no credible sources to defend that point. I just remember hearing that a few years back, when I first watched Schindler's List.

[California Joe]

Frankly speaking, who cares if 60 years after the fact a government deems it necessary to publicize a rememberance day? The facts haven't changed. It's always been an utterly horrific singular event in history.

I believe the Russian deaths during the war are now thought to be double or triple what was previously cited by historians. Because of access to Russian documents they didn't have before. The Soviets did not want to appear weakened substantially in the face of what could turn into an Allied invasion after relations started breaking down at the close of the war. So they cooked the numbers.

[Herrmannek]

Herrmannek, how many non jewish Poles were systematicly murdered out of all the Poles who were murdered by the Nzis?
Can't give you now exact numbers b/c there are some contoversys in that matter, must find trustfull source of info. Trying to find but, there is not sure info in net for know.




non Jewish Poles under Nazi occupation had a much better status then Jewish Poles, that's for sure.
Wouldn't be so surre, You must remember that Poles were same hated by germans like Jews, you've read hitler's qoute from my previous post( i hope so) You know that Camps weren't only for Jews, if war was longer there would not be Poland at all. the same goes for Russians. This was cold callculation. You start from from smaller problems then go for greater.


Many Poles helped the Nazis commit atrocities ( Massacre in Jedwabne for example) out of their own will, of course many Poles also helped save Jews.

This was their own will but not their inspiration(not full), Crime was commited by Poles' hands but you must remember that crime was inspirated by nazis soldiers wich were at place at the moment, wich still deosn't makes me feel better about those Poles.

But if you called Jedwabne case I must tell you that Jews were killing Poles in the same maner Poles where killing Jews in Jedwabne.
for example crime commited by Jewish comunists partizans(commander autonomus decission):


Massacre in Koniuchy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Find out how you can help support Wikipedia's phenomenal growth.

In 1944, probably in January, the Polish village of Koniuchy was wiped out by partisans from the [[Lithuanian brigade], under the command of Jacob Penner and Shmuel Kaplinsky. The village was not fortified, and the villagers had only a few old rifles. Children, women and old men were killed in cold blood. A total of about 130 men were killed.

After the war, some of the partisans boasted of the crime (including Chaim Lazaar, Israel Weiss, and Rich Cohen). Nobody was ever charged for this crime.

We hade charged ppl from Jedwabne and sentenced them and you not, so calling Jedwabne and not Koniuchy in one sentence is not Fair, and this is all what I have to western world, selective memorials makes from us fullbloded nazis wich we weren't. Such threating makes some people in Poland thinking that someone have buissnes in minoring Polish casultes(gues who their accuse :) ) and this make them think bad about them in general...sad but true...



You must keep in mind that the 'Final Solution' was aimed at annihilating the Jews. The annihilation of the Jews was the Nazis first priority and that priority is what created the Holocaust in the first place.

You know this is not true, so why repeat that lie over and over.
Final solutions aim was to make 3rd Riche wide from pacific to atlantic, eleiminating all unwanted "minorities" black, Poles,Russians,Jews, Retarded,Gypsis and many many more....

I'l give you another chance to read hitlers quote


On August 22, 1939, a few days before the official start of World War II, Hitler authorized his commanders, with these infamous words, to kill

"without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space [lebensraum] we need".

Heinrich Himmler echoed Hitler's decree:



"All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles."

[citizen-k]

Sure thats great that they want to make a memorial day but there is one other things that bothers me. Whenever people think about the holocaust its always remembered as a thing that was done only to Jews. Judging by that article it doesnt seem to disprove my point. The holocaust was brought apon Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Gypsies, Poles, etc. But it is always remembered as this singular Jewish tragedy and people seem to be fine with that. I say that if it doesnt recognize all the people who suffered then they should not have one at all.

Yup. This is **** that memorials are made only for Jews. In all western world is common knowledge about jewish victims of holocaust and none about others wich where preety the same in numbers(but sets had common parts ie: Some Jewes were Poles or Some Poles were Jewes :) ) Hitler ordered to kill Poles without mercy before he ordered to kill Jews



On August 22, 1939, a few days before the official start of World War II, Hitler authorized his commanders, with these infamous words, to kill

"without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space [lebensraum] we need".

Heinrich Himmler echoed Hitler's decree:


"All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles."

Did you know that first people in death camps were Poles not Jews? And if you ask western people about who is guilty for holocaust they probably say that Poles b/c it happened in Poland(probably beacuse they don't know Poles where persecuted too) even in Israel this is common way of thinking.

It's good to make memorials but not in the way presented in article :)

You made it ALL up on your own?

Ever heared about the "Jewish getho" in warsw? Pols lived very peacfully in warsaw...unlike the Jews who were closed in the getho and 6,000 were sent every day to Auswitch (The people who lived in the village called Ausvitch are all alive till this day...unlike houndred of thousands of Jews who got there by trains...)

Please keep your self-made history to yourself ;)

I

[citizen-k]

damn, it only took, what? over 50 years? all states should have done this a long, long time ago.

i think we should also recognise the genocide of american indigenous peoples. millions of indigenous americans were deliberately exterminated by the "white man" over several centuries.

"over several centuries" - not in 4 years, taken by trains to death camps...

[S'13]

Herrmannek, here are some quotes I found:


The Wannsee conference was the discussion by a group of Nazi officials about the "final solution of the Jewish question" (Endlösung der Judenfrage); it took place in Berlin, am Grossen Wannsee on January 20, 1942 and would lead to the Holocaust.

Discussion centred on the aim of the expulsion of the Jews from every sphere of life of the German people and the expulsion of the Jews from the living space of the German people. Measures to date were discussed and the concept of the 'deportation' of the Jews to the East was introduced - for "appropriate labour... in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes", the "final remnant will... have to be treated accordingly, because it... would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival". The number of Jews in Europe were enumerated (roughly 11 million) and the methods of evacuation were considered with regard to age and country of origin. The treatment of people with 'mixed blood' was also carefully discussed.

The meeting is noted as the first discussion of the 'final solution' and also because the records and minutes of the meeting were found intact by the Allies at the end of WW II and used during the Nuremberg Trials.

The protocol of the meeting was prepared by Adolf Eichmann aided by Reinhard Heydrich and does not explicitly mention mass murder; Eichmann later admitted at his trial that the actual language used during the conference was much more blunt and included terms such as "extermination" and "annihilation".







The final solution (German Endlösung) is the name of the German Nazis' plan to address the "Jewish problem" through systematic relocation and later extermination through genocide.

Heinrich Himmler was the main architect of the slaughter which would eventually exterminate three-quarters of all European Jews. On July 31, 1941, under instructions from Adolf Hitler, Nazi official Hermann Göring, ordered SS general Reinhard Heydrich to "submit to me as soon as possible a general plan of the administrative material and financial measures necessary for carrying out the desired final solution of the Jewish question."

Jewish ghettos and later concentration camps would be where the Nazis would concentrate Jewish populations in order to assist in their exploitation and later extermination.

The Wannsee conference, which took place in Berlin, am Großen Wannsee on January 20, 1942, was the discussion by a group of Nazi officials about the "final solution of the Jewish question".

The meeting is noted as the first discussion of the "final solution" and also because the records and minutes of the meeting were found intact by the Allies at the end of WW II and used during the Nuremberg Trials.

Much of the world now refers to the results of the "final solution" as the Holocaust.



It is sometimes asked why Hitler invaded the Soviet Union while leaving Britain undefeated in the west. The answer is that Hitler had two overriding objectives: creating an eastern empire for the Germans, and exterminating the Jews. The Soviet Union was harbouring the second-largest Jewish population in Europe after Poland. For Hitler, the war against the western allies was only a necessary prelude to the conquest of Eastern Europe. Here he intended enslave, expel or kill the Russians, Poles and other Slavic peoples to make room for German settlers. This was an objective many Germans shared. But his personal obsession had always been the extermination of the Jews. The large number of Jews (3.3 million) who lived in the Soviet Union was clearly a major factor behind his order to invade that country.

To further this end, the Wannsee conference was held near Berlin on January 20, 1942 with the participation of fifteen senior officials, including Reinhard Heydrich and Adolf Eichmann. It developed a plan to execute the 11 million Jews in Europe and North Africa. Between 1942 and 1944 the SS, assisted by collaborationist governments and recruits from occupied countries, killed between 5 and 7 million Jews. Two-thirds of these were systematically killed in six camps in Poland: Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibor and Treblinka. The rest were killed less systematically elsewhere, or died of starvation and disease while working as slave labourers. Many thousands of ordinary Germans were complicit in these crimes. This attempt to exterminate the Jews of Europe is now generally called the Holocaust, although the Hebrew word Shoah is preferred by some Jewish writers.

I hope I brought enough quotes to prove my point.

[steel bonnet]

Fair points on the people who suffered during the Holocaust.

Though without being heartless,why all the fuss over the Holocaust???

After all,look what Stalin was doing Before,Durng & After WWII. He killed a hell of a lot more civilians than anything the Nazi`s did.

Stalin caused mass murder to ALL.

Is this how people view these two regimes?

Stalin aka Communists : Murdered ANYONE inc British Soldiers fighting with the Russians during the war.

Hitler aka Nazis : Murdered a very small portion in comparison,though went out of there way where the Jews,Gypsies,Disabled etc were concerned.


As said l`m not sticking up for what the Nazis did,just doesn`t make sense that everyone only comments on the Holocaust.
As said under Stalins rule the Russians killed a Hell of a lot more Civillians before war broke out.

Just my 2 cents.

Ja
Steel Bonnet

[Herrmannek]

You made it ALL up on your own?


No. Hitler helped me a bit :( .



Ever heared about the "Jewish getho" in warsw?

I hope this is rethorical question.


Pols lived very peacfully in warsaw...unlike the Jews who were closed in the getho and 6,000 were sent every day to Auswitch (The people who lived in the village called Ausvitch are all alive till this day...unlike houndred of thousands of Jews who got there by trains...)

Living in Warsaw or anywhere else in Poland wasn't peacfull(to much french resistance involved movies,less "allo allo" my friend).
*Everyone could be shot without reason on the street.
*Whole villages were murdered on spot to free space for german settlers.
*All people theoreticaly dengerous to nazis were killed or send to work camps, or mandatory work(including inteligence, young,military...)
*Families were separeted
*Street catches(block squares, take all people from street, embark them on lorys, send them to concentration camps)
...
Tell me how would you like to close whole 27 milion country in a getto?
Poles were pushed to working for german military effort, they were making food and other goods germany military needed. You know that mass killing people is great logisticall problem, so they started from groups wich were easiest to extinguish, and I can asure you they would not stop after that...



Please keep your self-made history to yourself ;)

Please kiss my ass, bro... ;)

[perdurabo]

You made it ALL up on your own?

Ever heared about the "Jewish getho" in warsw? Pols lived very peacfully in warsaw...unlike the Jews who were closed in the getho and 6,000 were sent every day to Auswitch (The people who lived in the village called Ausvitch are all alive till this day...unlike houndred of thousands of Jews who got there by trains...)

Please keep your self-made history to yourself ;)

I

self-made? great! we threat you as friend you therat us as an enemy great CK!!
BTW to save 1 jew about 10-20poles were needed as Marek Edelman said above 10tousand of jews were saved in Warsaw so in saving jews take part above 100,000-200,000 Poles pretty much for 700,000citizens of warsaw .... and that's only in Warsaw not mention about Lvov and other,
Naighbours are ****ty piece of crap author sees only thig what he wants to see, there is enough evidence not mentioned in book.