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achilles
01-16-2005, 10:18 AM
Airbus is about to unveil its new A380 super-jumbo (pictured). Will the 555-seat monster leave Boeing trailing in its wake?

AS DISTINCTIVE Routemaster double-decker buses disappear from the streets of London, Airbus is set to unveil a double-decker passenger jet that it hopes will repeat the success of a vehicle that is every bit as iconic: Boeing’s 747. The European consortium’s A380 super-jumbo, which is to be formally unveiled at a lavish ceremony on Tuesday January 18th, will break the 747’s longstanding monopoly of the big-jet market when it enters service in 2006. Everything about the new plane is big, from its capacity of 555 paying customers and range of 15,000km (9,320 miles) to the purpose-built hangar, one of Europe’s largest enclosed spaces, at its construction site near Toulouse in southern France. Bigger, longer-range versions are planned and so far orders have been taken for 149 super-jumbos, over halfway to break-even point.

The size of the project reflects estimates about the future demand for air travel. Despite the recent travails of big airlines, both Airbus and Boeing expect a tripling of air-passenger traffic over the next 20 years. But the transatlantic rivals disagree about how the demand should be met. Airbus thinks an extra 16,600 new large planes (over 100 seats)—a doubling of the number of passenger aircraft currently flying—will do the trick, and expects that the average number of seats in aircraft will increase by 20%, to 215. By contrast, Boeing expects sales of 18,600 slightly smaller planes.

Airbus is hoping that the A380 will help it retain the lead it gained over Boeing in 2003, when, for the first time since the European consortium emerged as a rival to Boeing in the early 1970s, it delivered more aircraft than its American competitor. Airbus, to Boeing’s extreme displeasure, kept the number-one slot in 2004 by delivering 320 planes compared with 285 from its rival, according to figures released this week.

Boeing’s seemingly unassailable lead over Airbus was founded on the success of the 747, which entered service in 1970. The original jumbo jet could carry twice as many passengers as the next largest plane then flying and had a greater range, allowing, for example, a long transatlantic flight without refuelling. Its cost per passenger mile was around one-third less than its rivals. A huge home market for the jumbo and the rest of the Boeing range ensured its ascendancy. Some 1,400 747s have been sold to date.

However, only 15 were delivered last year. And as the jumbo has aged, Boeing’s domination of the commercial airways has foundered. The aerospace giant’s product line is ailing, and attempts to revive it have met with only partial success. The big airlines showed little interest in an upgraded jumbo. And a red-faced Boeing was forced to withdraw its Sonic Cruiser, a plane intended to fly at near the speed of sound, after airlines rejected the idea that passengers would pay a hefty premium for such rapid transit.

Boeing’s latest attempt to put things right, the 250-seat 7E7 “Dreamliner”, is born out of a belief that passengers will demand, and future deregulation allow, a big increase in “point-to-point” travel: direct flights between small and medium-sized cities, as opposed to the traditional hub-and-spoke model, in which international passengers fly between a few major airports and are then taken to more out of the way places on feeder flights. Boeing hopes the new plane will prove popular with the time-conscious business flyer. It says that the 7E7’s advanced engines will cut airlines’ fuel costs by 20%. So far it has received 56 firm orders.

The A380, by contrast, is designed to fly between big hubs. Its critics say it will mean longer journey times for passengers with onward flights to smaller destinations. But Airbus is claiming a similar step-change to the one that accompanied the launch of the 747: operating costs will be 15-20% lower than those of any rival aircraft, it says. To add to Boeing’s discomfort, Airbus announced in December that it would introduce the A350 in direct competition with the Dreamliner, offering much the same specifications.

Boeing’s fears that it would be left in Airbus’s wake also prompted it to attack on another front. In October, America made a formal complaint to the World Trade Organisation alleging the payment of billions of dollars of “unfair” subsidies to Airbus. Boeing claims that “launch aid” has enabled Airbus to roll out five new products in the past ten years while it has managed just one. Like Airbus’s rapid response to the Dreamliner, the European Union immediately said that it would file a counter-claim over large sums of aid going to Boeing through indirect government subsidies from its relationship with NASA and the Pentagon. This week, the EU said that it was ready to compromise to resolve the dispute and both sides agreed to suspend hostilities (and subsidies) for three months of negotiations.

The huge projected market for passenger jets over the coming years will allow both aircraft-makers to sell plenty of new planes. The A380 aside, Airbus and Boeing seem evenly matched. The success of the super-jumbo may well determine how much higher the Europeans fly than the Americans in the next few years. link (http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3555366)

http://www.economist.com/images/GA/2005w03/airb2.jpg

Howitz
01-16-2005, 12:29 PM
That's a big ass plane. p-)

noggs
01-16-2005, 12:32 PM
Nice!

Howie Kaluha
01-16-2005, 02:05 PM
Dang, that's huge.......

Gyles84
01-16-2005, 03:10 PM
Wow, very impressive.

§nake
01-16-2005, 03:14 PM
Must be funny to see it airborn :D

Flagg
01-16-2005, 04:34 PM
Some big problems yet to sorted out for the Airbus A380 include:

upgrading runways to support it's considerable weight

upgrading terminals to allow for reasonable ingress/egress times

That's BIG money for airports/airlines to spend...likely sucking up a big chunk of the savings in increased fees.


What I think is funny is the adverts for the A380...showing bars/restaurants/cabins/showers/etc, like it's a flying hotel/crusie ship.

I've seen old adverts for the 747 from the late 60's early 70's showing the same thing.....right before they stuffed the planes with economy seats, so I doubt it will happen.

The A380 is going to be the biggest cattlecar in the sky

Bugalugs
01-16-2005, 05:25 PM
Moo!

I look forward to having to step over FIVE people insted of two to get to the bathroom. :fork:

Fee Fi Fo Fum
01-16-2005, 05:26 PM
Moo!

I look forward to having to step over FIVE people insted of two to get to the bathroom. :fork:

Dont you just hate that p-)

limey
01-16-2005, 06:39 PM
They should have never scrapped Concorde.

Damn French !!! If a Boeing goes down, they don't ground the WHOLE fleet !!!

BTW - NEVER have a layover at Philidelphia - they just make you queue for a couple of hours, gasping for a smoke, and lose your luggage !!!

Gyles84
01-16-2005, 08:44 PM
Is anyone still working on next generation supersonic ac, or is that out of vogue now? :(

CG51
01-16-2005, 09:01 PM
thats a big plane they got there...

MEGR
01-16-2005, 11:13 PM
Wonder what kind of gas mileage that jet gets.

walford
01-17-2005, 01:55 AM
Reminds me of the old Boeing Guppies and Super Guppies (http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?airlinesearch=Aero%20Spacelines&distinct_entry=true) that were constructed on the B-29 airframe.
http://img151.exs.cx/img151/3364/fbppa1jj.jpg
http://img151.exs.cx/img151/3679/superguppyfront6dv.jpg

ViktorNavorski
01-17-2005, 02:44 AM
Boeing will modify 747 freighter to haul 7E7 parts
Aft fuselage to open for loads

By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AEROSPACE REPORTER

EVERETT -- Boeing engineers have come up with a novel way to get the large fuselage and wing structures of the 7E7 Dreamliner into special 747-400 freighters that will haul the assemblies to Everett from Japan, Europe and the United States for final assembly.

The aft fuselage of the huge jumbo jet will swing open like a gate to allow loading of the 7E7 composite structures.

That kind of cargo loading system has not been developed in aviation since the early 1960s, when a plane known as the Guppy, and which was based on a Boeing airframe, was developed for NASA to transport hardware for the space program.

"It's something that will be really unique," said Scott Strode, Boeing's vice president of 7E7 manufacturing and quality.

"We don't see any showstoppers," he said of the unusual design, but added that a lot of work needs to be done by Boeing this year to prepare a detailed certification plan.

In his first interview about the program, Strode disclosed a number of new details about the 7E7 air-logistics system.

Although Boeing had previously said it expected to have a fleet of at least three 747 transports, Strode said only two will be required initially. A third could be added later.

Boeing expects to decide by the end of this year who its partners, if any, will be to modify the 747-400s, Strode said. Firm configuration of the design also should be finished this year.

Still to be decided is who -- Boeing or a third party -- will own and operate the one-of-a-kind 747s.

"We have to get engaged with potential operators to know what willingness they have in an ownership stake," Strode said.

The freighters will be needed to deliver the first 7E7 assemblies to Everett in late 2006 or early 2007. That means certification is just two years away, in 2006.

The first two or three completed 7E7s will be used in what is expected to be about a yearlong flight-test program, with full-scale production of planes for customers starting in 2008.

Expect to see the 747 delivery transports flying in and out of Everett's Paine Field on an almost daily basis.

It will be an impressive sight.

The upper fuselage of the 747-400 will be expanded significantly in girth to accommodate the wings and fuselage sections of the 7E7.

Boeing has not yet released specifications of the modified 747 freighters, but the volume above the main cargo deck will be about 65,000 cubic feet, or more than three times the volume above the main cargo deck of 747-400 freighters in operation today.

The cargo area will not be pressurized, only the cockpit. The special freighters will be able to cruise at about the same altitude as the 747-400. But the odd-shaped fuselage will slow the plane's cruising speed slightly to about Mach .80, Strode said. The 747-400 is the world's fastest commercial jetliner, with a cruising speed of Mach .85.

This will be the first time Boeing has used planes as its primary delivery system in jetliner production.

But the 7E7 represents a new way of building planes for Boeing. Key suppliers, not Boeing, will build completed wings and fuselage sections of the 7E7, leaving only final assembly of those sections at the Everett plant.

Boeing believes a 7E7 can be assembled in only three days using these new methods.

Until Boeing announced last fall that it would use the special 747 freighters, it had been expected that the large 7E7 structures would arrive at the final assembly site by ship. Strode said he and his team had a key meeting about a year ago, and launched a serious evaluation of an air-transport plan.

Japanese manufacturers, led by Mitsubishi, will make the composite wings of the 7E7. The forward fuselage, including the nose and cockpit, will be made by Boeing's division in Wichita, Kan. A team of Dallas-based Vought Aircraft Industries and Alenia Aeronautica of Italy will make the center and aft composite fuselage sections, as well as the composite horizontal stabilizer.

A Boeing 7E7 logistics team continues to evaluate the best way to route the freighters to Everett with their cargo.

Strode said one of the 747s will be used to carry one set of wings per trip from Japan to Everett.

The plan now calls for the 7E7 fuselage to arrive at the Everett plant in three sections, and be connected along with the wings, Strode said.

Fuselage sections will come from Italy, Texas and Wichita.

The 747s might also ferry the 7E7 engines with attached nacelles, or housings, to the Everett plant, though that has not been decided.

"We are doing a lot of modeling to determine the best logistics," Strode said.

Air options other than the 747 were considered for large-parts delivery, Strode said, but were subsequently rejected.

"Some planes would have been higher risks in terms of certification," he said.

Boeing's objective with the 747 special freighters, he said, is to keep the design as close as possible to that of the existing 747-400.

Given the light weight 7E7 composite structures, the beefed up floor of the 747-400 freighter is not needed. So it is likely that used 747-400 passengers jets will be modified.

The wings will not be changed, nor will the front of the 747-400.

The 747-400 freighter is loaded through its lift-up nose section. But that would not work for the big 7E7 structures, Strode said. So Boeing engineers came up with the swing-tail design.

"That's the easiest way to access the whole plane," Strode said.

Military and civilian cargo and transport planes are loaded through the front or rear.

But in the early 1960s, Aero Spacelines of California modified old Boeing Stratocruisers for NASA with a swing-tail loading system. Known as the Guppy, the plane was used to haul the large sections of NASA launch vehicles and spacecraft from California to Florida.

Later, Airbus used the Super Guppy to transport structures of its planes from European manufacturers to its final assembly plant in Toulouse.

The nose section of the Super Guppy, rather than the tail, swings open for loading.

In the late 1990s, Airbus replaced the prop-engine Super Guppy with a modified A300-600 jet known as the Beluga to transport airplane sections to Toulouse. The nose of the whalelike Beluga above the cockpit lifts up for loading.

For now, Boeing is only calling its plane the Large Cargo Freighter.

Expect a catchy name before the plane takes flight with 7E7 structures.

There have been a number of colorful name suggestions within Boeing, Strode said.

"As we go forward, we will certainly look for a name since this will be a such a visible product where ever it lands," he said.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20040226/747largecargofreighter.jpg

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20040226/boeing-plane-carrier-0226.gif

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20040226/plane-carrier-specs-0226.gif

limey
01-17-2005, 06:07 PM
Wonder what kind of gas mileage that jet gets.

According to some documentary I watched, the gas mileage is supposed to be better than the 747

Romulus
01-17-2005, 06:10 PM
Dang, that's huge.......

That's what she said. ;)

MEGR
01-17-2005, 08:27 PM
Wonder what kind of gas mileage that jet gets.

According to some documentary I watched, the gas mileage is supposed to be better than the 747

I know that. Any numbers however? I'm just curious that's all.