American POWs in Gulf War 2

[Kitsune]

Brace Yourself!
Iraqi Forces seem to have taken around 10 American Forces Prisoner. They are from some 507(?) Maintenance Unit.
After pictures of Iraqis taken POW by Coalition forces now the Iraqis proudly presented american POWs. It was just shown here in german TV...and seems to be no sham. Two soldiers (one man and one woman) stated their names and from where they came...

Until now this was not shown in american TV...but that should only be a matter of time. For many americans this will be a shock...so brace yourself !!!

:cry:

[Kitsune]

They are showing it again. It is awful
The Soldiers are looking fear stricken and timid...and the iraqis show it gleefully.
It is shocking... I don't know what to say, anymore.

[Chris1]

I saw these.
Its not good.
Maybe this will stop the immature statements about Iraqi POW's?
We can only hope.
At least though they are alive.

[cut]

they showed dead soldiers aswell, the only people to show that was the french press.

those sick ****s (the french) show iraqi dead in their nightly news aswell. No respect for the dead..

[cut]

one of the POWs

http://up.tf1.fr/mmdia/100/101/87/252887.JPG

[dirk]

make 'em count

[96B]

This could be a bunch of propaganda, thus far there have been no reports of our boys being taken prisoner. If they even did, where the hell was everybody else? Our forces are traveling in huge numbers I dont see how they could get POWs.... like I said its probably propaganda.

I did hear the Marines suffered more casualties though.

[Kitsune]

They said here in german TV that there were certain other pictures that were "so awful" that they did not want to show these. A military expert said that he felt ashamed that Germany is not at the side of America right now... One really sees how this emotionally effects the people...
On the other side it was to be expected that things like this could happen.

We have to cool down now...and see what comes to pass.

[Kitsune]

@semperfi

It does not seem so. Allegedly this was the 507 Maintenace Unit. They took a wrong turn at a crossing and entered an area were they were not supposed to be. They ran into an Iraqi armed unit and were shot at. Several were killed. Others were taken Prisoner. These were interviewed. One obviously scared prisoner stated he was James Reilly from New Jersey of the 507 Maintenancs unit. If this really is a sham it makes no sense...cause it will found out. And after this nobody will believe anything anymore what the iraqis say...

[Zoomie]

It's funny how Iraq issued a statement saying that they'll treat all prisoners well. So far they've violated the Geneva Convention by filming them and sending it world-wide. It's the same thing as with the POWs of the first Gulf War. For the first 20 minutes they play by the rules and then they totally disregard them. Let's see the French comment on that at all those stupid anti-war protesters. I also learned recently that one reason Germany won't be involved in the war is because their constitution prohibits them from participating in an aggressive military action.

[96B]

Kitsune, I have now finally heard some more reports on the news that apparently these guys made a wrong turn in a city under intense gunfire or something like that. I certainly hope these guys are ok, my prairs go out to them as well as the men and women still fighting.

[cut]

This could be a bunch of propaganda, thus far there have been no reports of our boys being taken prisoner. If they even did, where the hell was everybody else? Our forces are traveling in huge numbers I dont see how they could get POWs.... like I said its probably propaganda.

I did hear the Marines suffered more casualties though.

What do you mean I just posted a pic!

I've seen the footage maybe they're not showing in the US for the families

If you don't believe me click on the link but you probably wont want to see these pics.


http://www.tf1.fr/news/0,,1014529,00.html

[Zoomie]

Just as I expected. The Iraqis made a statement saying that they WILL NOT go by the Geneva Convention. They are declaring all of our soldiers mercinaries fighting an illeagal war.

[warchild1/27scout]

kitsune-you said"if the iraqis lied they would'nt be believed again.are you just joking or what.the iraqis had'nt had any,no,none'credibility since,eh maybe circa 1990.if you believe a word they say you're cheating yourself.

[cut]

those POWs are from a maintenance division

the iraqis will know that they won't know ****

[Ratamacue]

Man, CAG is going to have a field day with this.

[Kitsune]

That is not what I meant...I am the first one that is sceptical.
For example the iraqi information minister stated yesterday that they (Iraqis) were souroounding the invaders and were "inflicting heavy casualties" on them. My reaction was just a grin. Statements like this are intended more for an arabic audience anyway... in western nations no one believes this.

But it is something completely different to stage an elaborate sham full of "proofs" and the like. If the Iraqis do something like this and use it on a lie that will be found out (like this one would), they loose the rest of "credibility" they have. Meaning if they again tell something and undermine this with "undeniable proof"...even this would not be believed. And this would not make sense. That is what I meant.

So I think this could be true after all... but I cannot to be totally sure. We will see what Rumsfeld states about it...

[warchild1/27scout]

well the geneva accords states that they have to treat pow like thier own solgiers so if they torture,humiliate and systematically execute our guys i guess that would be consistent with how they treat thier own people

[front]

"Cut" posted a link to the French photos above. My translation of the pages, and I have not been in France nor spoken French for a long time (1980s) so bear with me, is:

The first page:La chaîne Al-Jazira a diffusé dimanche des images filmées par Iraq TV montrant cinq prisonniers américains et plusieurs soldats morts. Selon la chaîne, ils ont été capturés près de Nassiriyah.

"Al-Jazeera has broadcasted television images from Iraqi TV of five American prisioners, and other dead soldiers. According to Al-Jazeera, they were captured near Nassiriyah."

On the second page: Un journaliste irakien a posé les mêmes questions à tous les prisonniers : nom, ville d'origine, et raison de leur venue en Irak. Beaucoup ont répondu : "parce qu'on m'en a donné l'ordre".

"An Iraqi Journalist asked many questions of the prisoners: name, town of birth, the reason they were in Iraq. Most responded: "Because I did what I was ordered"."

On the third page:Parmi les cinq soldats prisonniers, une femme.

"Amongst the five soldiers, one was a woman."

The fourth page: L'un des captifs était blessé. Le journaliste l'a aidé à se lever pour qu'il réponde à ses questions.

"One of the prisoners was injured. The journalist helped him up to answer the questions put to him."

That guy looked battered inthe last photo. I have only seen the photos on "cut's" link above and not the television footage.

Hopefully the fact that these brave men and woman are so publicised now will keep them safe.

Iraq has had a history of denying the Geneva convention during battles in parading prisioners of war as propaganda to justify their actions. Other prisoners of war, during the 1991 conflict, which were used in this way were returned to their families ( a quick link I found on Google about John Peters and John Nichols book on their experiences in 1991 : http://www.britains-smallwars.com/swbooks/Tornado-Down.html)

cheers

front

[Scrim]

Fox news stated that the bodies of US servicemen/women shown in an Iraqi morgue all had severe gunshot wounds to the head as if they were executed. I hope this is just speculation.

[cut]

that link doesn't work anymore because I they have taken it offline, I'm guessing out of respect for the families, especially thoses of those killed.

[yellowking]

I can't tell much about how they died...not used to seeing such things, though.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030323/170/3lmbt.html&e=2&ncid=708

[Minjin]

No offense or anything, but CNN and Fox news are hardly going to say anything bad is happening. My suggestion: either A) watch as many different sources of news and draw a middle ground conclusion or B) wait till the smoke clears and see how things turned out.

And again no offense to the people on the boards, but is the racism really called for? The term "raghead" is hardly appropriate for "civilized" discussion forums. If anything it will just engender more dislike. If you want to talk about them and make grand statements as some members of the forums seem inclined to do, just call them what they are....IRAQIS.

[Lobo]

The Spanish TV showed the images of the American POW, the corpses and also a truck and one American soldiers laying on the floor.

[stuntman]

I don't mean any insult to the Army but I feel that if this would have been USMC this would have been a different story! The reason I say this is because all marines are rifle men from cooks to Generals, So I think they would have some how gotten out of there or maybe even all dead?!
Any takers?
thx! :roll:

[Lobo]

I remembered that in 1991 a truck from a support unit got lost in Al Khafjî, that Saudi town occupied by Iraqi forces, and its crew were captured. Among them it was the first woman who became a POW in that war.

I suppose something similar happened this time, but this time those soldiers died in an ambush or were executed after becoming POWs.

[Cpl Stumps]

I just posted on another subject, If you go to Al Jezeera their showing an American with gun shot wound to the head and blood on the ground under his head. In my limited experience I would say that the K-Pot would have protected a service person from a small caliber round. It is my opinion based on what I saw in this picture that this brave American was excuted by those bastards.

[awol6A]

Stuntman, now isn't the time for a stupid discussion as you noted above.

[stuntman]

:backhand: All I did is pose the question that we need to train all service men for gun battle, I wasn't trying to offend anyone and sorry if I did! But I am not a expert so I asked thats all!?!?!?
Keep your panties on we are all on the same team!!

[kilroy]

All US army personel are trained in small-unit tactics, marksmanship, and combat weapons tactics. However, they almost drove into an Iraqi division. It is horrific that they have been executed post-capture. Hopefully, the US will stop relying on the Iraqis surrending and just crush their military.

[Chris1]

My opinion
This was a grab by some of the better Iraqi forces.
It doesn't take much in a battle like this to let US forces pass by, ambush a convoy (which is what happened according to the Pentagon) put a lot of fire in the trucks and be up and at the door kicking the **** out of anyone who resists.
A smack in the face with a butt of the rifle and any thoughts of pulling at your rifle would be gone for a few seconds, in which time someone can easily pull you out of the door and there you are, captured.
This would of been the case even if they were marines.
They wouldn't of had time to react let alone return fire.

[Ichhabe]

What I wondering on is, why those pictures of the POW's was posted by that spaniard? I think,...No, it is my strongest opinion that their families should be given a chance to be notified before some "guy" want to be first out with those pictures. Show some humanity, even if other wount.
My suggestion is to remove them, until they are "realeased" by the army. Not for OPSEC, but for respect for the POW's and their families. Tnx.

[Lobo]

OK. I'll remove it. No problem about it.

[Ichhabe]

Tnx again.
No hard feelings!?! Just that it must suck for the families to maybe see them on a "amateur" site before it is official.

[96B]

Chris, this would not have happened to Marines because they are front line forces and wouldnt be in such a situation without armor support more than likely. I would also like to add that I believe the Marines would have fought until each and every one of them were dead.

There should be Apaches or some form of cover and protection for these kinds of convoys and I am sure that there will be in the future.

[Chris1]

Chris, this would not have happened to Marines because they are front line forces and wouldnt be in such a situation without armor support more than likely. I would also like to add that I believe the Marines would have fought until each and every one of them were dead.

There should be Apaches or some form of cover and protection for these kinds of convoys and I am sure that there will be in the future.
OK, let me amend that.
If they were placed in the same situation, I dont doubt they would intend to fight until everyone of them lay dead on the ground.
However, a persons natural reactions overrrides what they might be determined to do.
They were ambushed.
This means one minute they were driving along jolly as ****
the next some nice man with an AK47 was knocking on his door and people around them were dying.
Shock would of stopped him for a few vital seconds
it does not matter if they were logistics, infantry or marines in that situation, by the time they would know what was going on they would be on the floor either wounded (as one of them was) or disarmed.
If you have seen the footage look at the one identified as SGT Riley
He is in shock and has obviously just seen something that has caused him to just fall apart.
If you are disarmed with people standing around you with rifles, it doesn't matter if ten minutes before you were the meanest, baddest man out there with a grenade in your mouth and a GPMG in your hand, you are in the **** and you are going to do what they say because you have no choice.

The pictures of the ambush I found very disturbing. The dead man on the ground with the CBA half off, left in enemy territory its simply something that hasn't been seen for decades.

Whatever Mister Rumsfelds claims at a new type of warfare never seen before, it still comes back to the basics of warfare, one man shot that poor bloke and his life ended.

[PSYWAR1-0]

Look at the pics, watch the vid, and know that this is not a game. This is every troops worst nightmare. Thoughts and prayers to the POWs and their famlies.

Payback is a Mother****er. Eh nevermind, I just heard that Blackhawk Industries is opening a factory in Iraq. :cry:

[SFontaine]

Video from Al Jazeera

http://pipebomb.net/thewar/media/Al...age/jazeera.avi


WARNING: GRAPHIC

[warchild1/27scout]

i heard somewhere more motivated troops were being sent south in civilian clothes to less motivated units to give them a kick in the ass.they all die the same so bring it on. :bash: