Bush blocks Euro plan to woo Iran over nuclear freeze

[KB]

Bush blocks Euro plan to woo Iran over nuclear freeze
By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor
The Daily Telegraph
(Filed: 18/01/2005)

America has hobbled an effort by Britain and other European countries to persuade Iran to freeze its nuclear programme.


Senior officials said privately that the US would not offer economic or political concessions to woo Teheran.

President George W Bush is trying to improve relations with Europe and will visit London and Brussels next month.

But in private, American officials are furious at the European Union's "engagement" with Teheran. They say they will not co-operate with what they see as the dangerous policy of giving the regime "rewards for bad behaviour".

The New Yorker magazine reported yesterday that teams of US special forces had infiltrated Iran to scout suspected weapons sites that would be targeted in future air strikes.

Seymour Hersh, the magazine's award-winning journalist, quoted a US official as saying that after Afghanistan and Iraq "we're going to have the Iranian campaign".

However, a senior US administration source said Mr Bush was unlikely to take any decisions on dealing with Iran for the next six months, while the issue was "blocked" by the European diplomatic initiative.

Another well-placed US source said "military action is only the last resort after other options have been exhausted".

He said Washington wanted first to exert pressure on Iran to halt its nuclear programme through an escalating series of diplomatic and economic sanctions at the United Nations Security Council.

Iran is widely believed to be pursuing a secret programme to build a nuclear bomb. The nation says it only seeks to develop nuclear power to save its oil reserves.

Under an agreement in November between Iran and Britain, France and Germany, Teheran was spared a referral to the security council after it agreed to suspend "voluntarily" the most sensitive parts of its nuclear programme: the enrichment of uranium and the reprocessing of plutonium. In return, the Europeans made a commitment to improve relations.

Working groups met in Geneva yesterday to discuss three issues: Iran's nuclear programme; improved technological and economic co-operation; and "firm commitments on security issues".

The EU has agreed to move ahead with co-operation even before an overall agreement is reached and has resumed talks on a trade pact with Iran.

But many of the benefits that Teheran seeks - advanced technology, investment in its oil industry and greater international acceptance - can be provided only with US agreement.

The Europeans hoped to entice the new Bush administration into the diplomatic process.

American officials dismiss the idea out of hand. One said the European effort was "comical". Another said the Iranians would break out of whatever constraints the Europeans imposed.

Washington believes that any concessions made by Teheran are temporary, and often imposed by their own technical problems. British officials admit their initiative is running into the sand.

Without US support, the Europeans believe their initiative is doomed and it will be only a matter of time before the Iranians resume their nuclear activities.

The US will not publicly denounce the initiative but appears content to watch it collapse.

It then hopes to bring the issue to the security council. Britain says such a move would be pointless because any sanctions would be blocked by Russia and China.

[cut]

the telegraph really doesn't like Bush these days it must be something to do with negative comments he made about the conservatives.

[Ratman]

Maybe Bush et al have another plan for Iran. Here is an article from the current New Yorker by Seymour Hersh - The Coming Wars.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact

I for one found it frightening.

[BigBaribal]

If I were a young US boy, I think it would be time to think to go to Canada to escape draft ;)

[moughoun]

If I were a young US boy, I think it would be time to think to go to Canada to escape draft ;)

yes we all know racist little boy's like you are coward's, thank's for the head's up

[BigBaribal]

You're welcome :lol:


Btw, I recommend you the book from USMC general Smedley Butler "War is a racket":

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


Btw, apart the fact that I'm not racist (but I really don't mind what you think about me), I will be the first one to take arms to defend the ground of my fatherland.

In fact, I do hate colonialism, in any forms.

[moughoun]

You're welcome :lol:


Btw, I recommend you the book from USMC general Smedley Butler "War is a racket":

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


Btw, apart the fact that I'm not racist (but I really don't mind what you think about me), I will be the first one to take arms to defend the ground of my fatherland.

In fact, I do hate colonialism, in any forms.

yes we all know how surrounded by hostility Switzerland is, how do you manage to stay safe with all the big bad men coming for your clocks and chocolate?

[walford]

The military option should be WAY down on the list on this one. If it comes to that, an economic blockade should be effective enough w/o putting Western boots on the ground.

The West has to be willing to exert some diplomatinc/economic pressure on the Islamic Republic in order to incentivize abandoning a nuclear program. An oil-rich country does not need nuclear power. A hostile totalitarian state that is a major sponsor of international terror simply must not be permitted the potential to kill tens of millions in an instant. Du-uh!

Insofar as toppling the regime is concerned, knowing several Iranians personally, I have increasing confidence that they will be able to handle that problem themselves. They are a very smart and brave people.

[BigBaribal]

Insofar as toppling the regime is concerned, knowing several Iranians personally, I have increasing confidence that they will be able to handle that problem themselves. They are a very smart and brave people.

Totally true, I've myself (from the military) a friend from Iranian origin and I can confirm that Iranians (except of course the mollahs mafia) are very fine people.

[BlackRain]

Insofar as toppling the regime is concerned, knowing several Iranians personally, I have increasing confidence that they will be able to handle that problem themselves. They are a very smart and brave people.

Totally true, I've myself (from the military) a friend from Iranian origin and I can confirm that Iranians (except of course the mollahs mafia) are very fine people.

There is nothing wrong with the Iranian people.

However, the ruling class has now become a nightware to them. The Islamic Revolution replaced a corrupt Shah with a corrupt Theocracy.

Now the people reap what they sowed.

[walford]

Now the people reap what they sowed.Most of the Iranian people today weren't even born when the Islamic Republic was installed. A very young population. That is what gives me hope -- they have no direct memory of what made creating a theocracy desirable at the time. All they know is that it is not necessary anymore.

[BlackRain]

Now the people reap what they sowed.Most of the Iranian people today weren't even born when the Islamic Republic was installed. A very young population. That is what gives me hope -- they have no direct memory of what made creating a theocracy desirable at the time. All they know is that it is not necessary anymore.


My argument to that is that the "very young population" of Iran also deposed the Shah and installed the current leaders.

Now, if the new 'very young population' felt so inclined, they could do the same thing. However, the have not not.

Thus, they reap what they sow through inaction against a corrupt government.



'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke).

[HooyahCQB]

You're welcome :lol:


Btw, I recommend you the book from USMC general Smedley Butler "War is a racket":

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


Btw, apart the fact that I'm not racist (but I really don't mind what you think about me), I will be the first one to take arms to defend the ground of my fatherland.

In fact, I do hate colonialism, in any forms.

yes we all know how surrounded by hostility Switzerland is, how do you manage to stay safe with all the big bad men coming for your clocks and chocolate?

And their Army Knives


But then again. Don't all Swiss males have to keep a weapon and uniform in home?

[walford]

Now, if the new 'very young population' felt so inclined, they could do the same thing. However, the have not not.

Thus, they reap what they sow through inaction against a corrupt government.We are not dealing with a mere authoritarian regime here [such as your classic Latin American tinpot dictatorship]. All they care about is holding onto power, so so long as you don't criticize the government, you will be left alone.

The Islamic Republic is a totalitarian regime. That is the coercive power of government penetrates every aspect of society in order to transform the people themselves to conform to an arbitrary ideal [i.e. a man-made Utopia].

Typically in such countries, the government has a monopoly on weapons. All communications are tightly controlled and monitored. Spies are everywhere. How are they to organize then? Their jails are bursting with political prisoners. Summary executions -- sometimes targeting entire families -- loom as penalty for even the slightest suspicion. Just how much resistance would you find acceptible under such circumstances?

History has shown that in order for a dictatorship to be successfully toppled by a popular revolt [as was the case in the Philippines and the USSR], the military has to be persuaded not to follow orders to massacre the demonstrators -- indeed, a siginificant cadre of the top brass must be sympathetic enough to actually join the people.

You will notice that the Chinese government did not have that problem in 1989, so the PLA slaughtered thousands on the spot and rounded up many many more all over the country -- never to be heard from again.

It is simply absurd to question the bravery of anyone living under such tyranny. Given the natural advantages that an absolutist regime enjoys, we can see why often times the people need help from the outside.

[mountainbear]

You're welcome :lol:


Btw, I recommend you the book from USMC general Smedley Butler "War is a racket":

http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm


Btw, apart the fact that I'm not racist (but I really don't mind what you think about me), I will be the first one to take arms to defend the ground of my fatherland.

In fact, I do hate colonialism, in any forms.

yes we all know how surrounded by hostility Switzerland is, how do you manage to stay safe with all the big bad men coming for your clocks and chocolate?
Very intelligent comment moughoun! :cantbeli:
Where was the necessity to point your disagreement whit BigBaribal against all Switzerland?

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The Islamic Republic is a totalitarian regime. That is the coercive power of government penetrates every aspect of society in order to transform the people themselves to conform to an arbitrary ideal [i.e. a man-made Utopia].
Mmm....thats the ideal but knowing a couple of Iranians one of whom is Jewish and travels to Iran to visit family (Jews are allowed to worship in Iran unlike Saudi) the reality seems to be oddly different, the stories I am hearing are of a looser grip on society with a lot more tolerance.
The guy I know who visits twice a year to see his mother reckons its improved a lot since he left 8 years ago he is confident that his investments in Iran are safe.

[walford]

Mmm....thats the ideal but knowing a couple of Iranians one of whom is Jewish and travels to Iran to visit family (Jews are allowed to worship in Iran unlike Saudi) the reality seems to be oddly different, the stories I am hearing are of a looser grip on society with a lot more tolerance.Perhaps I need to clarify. I was describing the definition of totalitarianism in general. Many totalitarian socieities -- given that it doesn't seem to work very well in practice -- tend to compromise. China has decided to tolerate market economics so long as it serves the regime.

The Islamic Republic is also finding itself having to loosen social restrictions in the hopes of forestalling a general revolt. I have hopes that this process will continue w/o the need for outside intervention. If however, the mullahs acquire nukes, action will be required. Just what form such action takes is eminently debatable, but a nuclear armed Iran as it is presently governed is completely out of the question.

They must be made to understand that nuclear weapons will not purchase a deterrent credibility, but will instead entail great risk.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Mmm....thats the ideal but knowing a couple of Iranians one of whom is Jewish and travels to Iran to visit family (Jews are allowed to worship in Iran unlike Saudi) the reality seems to be oddly different, the stories I am hearing are of a looser grip on society with a lot more tolerance.Perhaps I need to clarify. I was describing the definition of totalitarianism in general. Many totalitarian socieities -- given that it doesn't seem to work very well in practice -- tend to compromise. China has decided to tolerate market economics so long as it serves the regime.

The Islamic Republic is also finding itself having to loosen social restrictions in the hopes of forestalling a general revolt. I have hopes that this process will continue w/o the need for outside intervention. If however, the mullahs acquire nukes, action will be required. Just what form such action takes is eminently debatable, but a nuclear armed Iran as it is presently governed is completely out of the question.

They must be made to understand that nuclear weapons will not purchase a deterrent credibility, but will instead entail great risk.
Got ya :)