Injured Marine Has Purple Heart Taken Away

[fantassin]

Injured Marine Has Purple Heart Taken Away

Dept. Of Defense Says Ferrell Injured In Truck Crash, Not Explosion

POSTED: 5:51 pm PST January 24, 2005
UPDATED: 10:01 am PST January 25, 2005

VACAVILLE, Calif. -- The U.S. Department of Defense is facing increasing criticism following its decision to remove the Purple Heart given to a Vacaville Marine.

Lt. Dustin Ferrell (pictured, left), 26, was riding in a huge convoy that was invading Iraq in 2003 when his Humvee seemingly exploded. The driver was killed, and three Marines were seriously injured, including Ferrell.


"My jaw, all of that, was just splintered," Ferrell said. "Because of that, I had swelling that required a tracheotomy. (I had a) bruised lung, and I dislocated my left hip. I lost 14 of my teeth, and I lost vision in my right eye."

Unable to speak or breathe on his own, Ferrell -- a former student at Vacaville High School -- received a surprise from Gen. William Nyland, who awarded him the Purple Heart.

"That was one of the biggest things. I knew I was going to live. I knew my life was changed, but I was pretty proud at that point," Ferrell said.

Then in December, letters from the U.S. Department of Defense said that the explosion wasn't an enemy bomb, but a collision with a five-ton Army truck. Subsequently, Ferrell's Purple Heart was revoked because the injury didn't result directly from combat.

"He sustained injuries that almost cost him his life, and to me, that warranted a Purple Heart. But to have them take it back away from him, I don't understand why," said Vicky Huston Isgrigg, Ferrell's mother.

Now, at least one congressman and several veterans groups are raising questions and writing protest letters on behalf of Farrell. They want to see his Purple Heart restored.

"I think he was injured in combat, which reflects why he was given the medal in the first place," said Ken Kimseu, spokesman for Disabled American Veterans.

Meanwhile, Ferrell -- who is stationed at Camp Lejeune, N.C. -- is still undergoing surgeries to rebuild his mouth.

Copyright 2005 by TheKCRAChannel. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/4125996/detail.html?subid=22100408&qs=1;bp=t

[ZeroPositive]

Even if found that he wasn't injured directly due to enemy fire... he was given an award and I feel they should have just left it as it was... and not take it way.

[wiking]

It wasn't like he lied and received a Bronze or silver star, or the MOH.
He was wounded and received the Purple star, and they should leave it at that. Man almost lost his life, and received serious injury that will follow him for the rest of his life.

[MrTangerineSpeedo]

Agreed. Taking it away at this point is stupid. He didn't ask for the Purple Heart, it was given to him. The Army should have just cut their losses and left it alone. Now, they come across as heartless bastards who don't appreciate the service and sacrifice of their soldiers. Just what we need, more bad PR.

[DPGLAW]

that is really f'ed up on the part of DoD. Now I support EVERYTHING they ahve done that has come to light with reagrd to the War on Terror but actions such as this just support the claims of those whining bitch liberals that do nothing but criticize our gov't...I hope that they give him his award backl and leave it be...this is wrong

[11F5S]

His chances of being elected President have increased. :lol:

AR 600-8-22 / 25 February 1995

SEC. 571. PURPLE HEART TO BE AWARDED ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE ARMED FORCES.


(a) IN GENERAL.--(1) Chapter 57 of title 10, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

"§ 1131. Purple Heart: limitation to members of the armed forces

"The decoration known as the Purple Heart (authorized to be awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016) may only be awarded to a person who is a member of the armed forces at the time the person is killed or wounded under circumstances otherwise qualifying that person for award of the Purple Heart.".

(2) The table of sections at the beginning of such chapter is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

"1131. Purple Heart: limitation to members of the armed forces.".

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE.--Section 1131 of title 10, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall apply with respect to persons who are killed or wounded after the end of the 180-day period beginning on (18 Nov 1997) the date of the enactment of this Act.



2-8. Purple Heart

The Purple Heart was established by General George Washington, at Newburgh, New York, on 7 August 1782, during the Revolutionary War. It was reestablished by the President of the United States per War Department General Orders 3, 1932 and is currently awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016, 25 April 1962, Executive Order 12464, 23 February 1984 and Public Law 98-525, 19 October 1984.

a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force or any civilian national of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded

(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States.

(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.

(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

(4) As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces.

(S) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.

(6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed Services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.

(7) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.

b. While clearly an individual decoration, the Purple Heart differs from all other decorations in that an individual is not "recommended" for the decoration; rather he or she is entitled to it upon meeting specific criteria.

(1) A Purple Heart is authorized for the first wound suffered under conditions indicated above, but for each subsequent award an Oak Leaf Cluster will be awarded to be worn on the medal or ribbon. Not more than one award will be made for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant or from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent.

(2) A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record.

(3) When contemplating an award of this decoration, the key issue that commanders must take into consideration is the degree to which the enemy caused the injury. The fact that the proposed recipient was participating in direct or indirect combat operations is a necessary prerequisite, but is not sole justification for award.

(4) Examples of enemy-related injuries which clearly justify award of the Purple Heart are as follows:

(a) Injury caused by enemy bullet, shrapnel, or other projectile created by enemy action.

(b) Injury caused by enemy placed mine or trap.

(c) Injury caused by enemy released chemical, biological or nuclear agent.

(d) Injury caused by vehicle or aircraft accident resulting from enemy fire.

(e) Concussion injuries caused as a result of enemy generated explosions.

(5) Examples of injuries or wounds which clearly do not qualify for award of the Purple Heart are as follows:

(a) Frostbite or trench foot injuries.

(b) Heat stroke.

(c) Food poisoning not caused by enemy agents.

(d) Chemical, biological, or nuclear agents not released by the enemy.

(e) Battle fatigue.

(f) Disease not directly caused by enemy agents.

(g) Accidents, to include explosive, aircraft, vehicular, and other accidental wounding not related to or caused by enemy action.

(h) Self-inflicted wounds, except when in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence.

(i) Post traumatic stress disorders.

(j) Jump injuries not caused by enemy action.

(6) It is not intended that such a strict interpretation of the requirement for the wound or injury to be caused by direct result of hostile action be taken that it would preclude the award being made to deserving personnel. Commanders must also take into consideration, the circumstances surrounding an injury, even if it appears to meet the criteria. Note the following examples:

(a) In case such as an individual injured while making a parachute landing from an aircraft that had been brought down enemy fire; or, an individual injured as a result of a vehicle accident caused by enemy fire, the decision will be made in favor of the individual and the award will be made.

(b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of "friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly" projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment.

(c) Individuals injured as a result of their own negligence; for example, driving or walking through an unauthorized area known to have been mined or placed off limits or searching for or picking up unexploded munitions as war souvenirs, will not be awarded the Purple Heart as they clearly were not injured as a result of enemy action, but rather by their own negligence.

c. A Purple Heart will be issued to the next of kin of each person entitled to a posthumous award. Issue will be made automatically by the Commanding General, PERSCOM, upon receiving a report of death indicating entitlement.

d. Upon written application to Commander, ARPERCEN, ATIN.- DAR-P-VSEA, 9700 Page Boulevard, St. Louis, MO 63132-5200, award may be made to any member of the Army, who during World War 1, was awarded a Meritorious Service Citation Certificate signed by the Commander in Chief, American Expeditionary Forces, or who was authorized to wear wound chevrons. Posthumous awards to personnel who were killed or died of wounds after 5 April 1917 will be made to the appropriate next of kin upon application to the Commanding General, PERSCOM.

e. Any member of the Army who was awarded the Purple Heart for meritorious achievement or service, as opposed to wounds received in action, between 7 December 1941 and 22 September 1943, may apply for award of an appropriate decoration instead of the Purple Heart.

f. For those who became Prisoners of War after 25 April 1962, the Purple Heart will be awarded to individuals wounded while prisoners of foreign forces, upon submission by the individual to the Department of the U.S. Army of an affidavit that is supported by a statement from a witness, if this is possible. Documentation and inquiries Should be directed to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPCPDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.

g. Any member of the U.S. Army who believes that he or she is eligible for the Purple Heart, but through unusual circumstances no award was made, may submit an application through military channels, to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPC-PDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471. Application will include complete documentation, to include evidence of medical treatment, pertaining to the wound.

[11F5S]

Even if found that he wasn't injured directly due to enemy fire... he was given an award and I feel they should have just left it as it was... and not take it way.

The incident didn't meet the criteria for the award....to let it stand would only serve to lessen the award overall. Personally I wouldn't want an award that I wasn't entitled to.



It wasn't like he lied and received a Bronze or silver star, or the MOH.
He was wounded and received the Purple star, and they should leave it at that. Man almost lost his life, and received serious injury that will follow him for the rest of his life

It doesn't matter how serious his injuries were...the incident didn't meet the criteria for the award.

[sp2c]

maybe he should never have recieved it but now that he has it they should never have revoked it either.

bad press

[11F5S]

maybe he should never have recieved it but now that he has it they should never have revoked it either.

bad press

You do what's right and to hell with "bad press".

A jury convicts you and sentences you to prison...later the prosecutor is given DNA evidence that proves you didn't do it...should the DA let you serve your sentence rather than face the possibility of "bad press" or should he see that the mistake is corrected?

[ZeroPositive]

still it was the army who screwed up, it is one thing to do a normal screw up but to give the man a purple heart when he has been totally fuct up like this... bring his hopes up with the award and then kick him back down by taking it away... isn't very nice

[11F5S]

still it was the army who screwed up, it is one thing to do a normal screw up but to give the man a purple heart when he has been totally fuct up like this... bring his hopes up with the award and then kick him back down by taking it away... isn't very nice

The Army had nothing what so ever to do with this.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6844995/

A PH does nothing to give one hopes or heal one's injuries.

Why would anyone want a medal that they didn't qualify for? Low self- esteem....perhaps.

[SHAM]

That increases the rep of the purple heart. The impression i had before was is u stubbed ure toe in the shower u would get a purple heart p-)

[sp2c]

You do what's right and to hell with "bad press".

A jury convicts you and sentences you to prison...later the prosecutor is given DNA evidence that proves you didn't do it...should the DA let you serve your sentence rather than face the possibility of "bad press" or should he see that the mistake is corrected?

The public does not make or brake the justice system more or less unlike the military and the public is heavily influenced by the press.

imo it was stupid to revoke it like that




The Army had nothing what so ever to do with this.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6844995/

A PH does nothing to give one hopes or heal one's injuries.

Why would anyone want a medal that they didn't qualify for? Low self- esteem....perhaps.
you are in no position to judge this guy's self esteem (imo that's disrespectfull) he had half his face blown up and was told that it happened by a bomb and earned a purple heart for it.

then suddenly the military sends him a letter claiming that it wasn't a bomb but another truck exploded in his face and that they want the purple heart back and he's supposed to just swallow it up?

imo the right thing to do was just present him with the evidence they had and inform him that in retrospect he did not deserve the medal and let him do what's right

[grunt98]

bottom line...he did not earn the purple heart...period. yeah it sucks, maybe they should have investigated a little more before giving it to him but regardless, he didn't earn it. if it was me, i would give it back, no problem.

[11F5S]

The public does not make or brake the justice system more or less unlike the military and the public is heavily influenced by the press.

You obviously know very little about the justice system here in the United States of America.

[Milkman]

Okay lets look at this logically:

Hummer are not Ford Pintos, therefore they don't just "explode."

Hummers do explode when a mine/IED/whatever hits them. THEREFORE it was enemy fire, unless some doofus decided to shoot their own hummer for some unknown reason.


The incedent should be investigated to see what the exact cause of the explosion was (Think the Battleship maine explosion and following investigation)

[Novara]

Draconian, anal-retentive, heartless. Those are the words which come to mind.

Didn't Kerry recieve 3 Purple Hearts? One for shrapnel stuck in his arse after he threw a grenade short?

The Purple Heart serves no purpose other than to boost morale of an injured soldier. "Look son, you served your country and got injured, it sucks I know. Hopefully this will make it easier to swallow".

...what a joke.

:roll:

[11F5S]

imo the right thing to do was just present him with the evidence they had and inform him that in retrospect he did not deserve the medal and let him do what's right

Your entitled to your opinion, however every award is subject to review and in this case it was determined that the incident didn't meet the criteria for the PH. It's not up to the soldier to decide.

If the Army makes a mistake and pays a soldier too much, it's not up to him to decide whether or not he gets keep it, and he shouldn't piss and moan to the press when it's deducted from his pay at a later date.

[Novara]

[quote]

If the Army makes a mistake and pays a soldier too much, it's not up to him to decide whether or not he gets keep it, and he shouldn't piss and moan to the press when it's deducted from his pay at a later date.

I suppose so. But this poor guy couldn't even piss and moan to the press cos his jaws in pieces.

It reminds me of the thread we had here about bogus medals. Some guys are given them (e.g. Kerry) who do not merit any, and this guy who in my opinion does, is left with a shattered jaw and a ruined life with nothing to show for it.

Doesn't it make you feel all warm and cosy inside? Oh...the humanity of it all.

woot

[mi35d]

I do feel for the guy. I've seen injured in combat and in peacetime.

It comes down to fairness overall. IF it wasn't caused by a mine or enemy fire, then he's not authorized to wear the award. Simple.

If it was that easy to hand them out, then the 31 Marines who went down today in bad weather should be awarded the PH.

We lose personnel and have injuries every year, in every branch of service due to accidents. Heck, if all it took was a vehicle accident, then I want a PH for an APC rollover I was involved in back in 84'. Busted up my arm and had a concusion. (M203 ammo box conked me in the head.)

[usm2b]

I wonder what paper pushing POS brought that to the GOVT's attention...I mean seriously he was wounded in a war zone. Most of the time their isn't even an enemy firing...its all cowardly IED fighting from thos bitches

[PrincessRAR]

bah americans and their medals...ribbons...awards
whole system is a joke.

Fancy getting an award for getting injured... :roll:

But in the end it is wrong to give then to take, i mean the guy has been through enough...

[Ratamacue]

bah americans and their medals...ribbons...awards
whole system is a joke.

Fancy getting an award for getting injured... :roll:
The Purple Heart represents having given physical sacrifice, be it injury or death, in a combat situation while in military service. I think that deserves recognition. Australia doesn't have something equivalent?

[JTAR7242]

bah americans and their medals...ribbons...awards
whole system is a joke.

Fancy getting an award for getting injured... :roll:
It's not an award, it's a recognition of sacrifice. What the **** do you care asshat?

Regardless, I think it is ****ed up to give him the medal and then take it away like that. His situation may not have warranted it, but they gave it to him, he should be allowed to keep it. That barracks whore Jessica Lynch got a Bronze Star for crying in the back of a HMMWV, and they ant to take this Marine's Purple Heart away? Shouldn't the subsequent findings in the 507th incident have required them to take back her Star?

You are right, often the system is a joke, but that doesn't make the Purple Heart funny at all. Nobody wants to get that one, I tell you that much.

[PrincessRAR]

haha calm down.

Yes the award the way it is given out is a joke.
He was in a convoy and got hit - I wouldnt call that exactly sacrificing.
I know he is over there fighting a war i just see some things differently thats all.

And dont even start me on little miss lynch that is one big joke....
And it is an award - he gets something doesnt he ;) he doesnt get a speech done for him and thats it, no he gets a little job for his polys

[Ratamacue]

haha calm down.

Yes the award the way it is given out is a joke.
He was in a convoy and got hit - I wouldnt call that exactly sacrificing.
I know he is over there fighting a war i just see some things differently thats all.
That's the point. They're revoking his medal because it turned out that he wasn't wounded by enemy action. Unless you're suggesting that even if it was by enemy action he still wouldn't deserve it, in which case, I'm not going to even bother arguing with you.

[usarfang]

that's messed up he was still in the warzone it should count.

[digrar]

The Purple Heart represents having given physical sacrifice, be it injury or death, in a combat situation while in military service. I think that deserves recognition. Australia doesn't have something equivalent?

We get a paycheck every fortnight.
This is a bit harsh but most diggers see the Purple Heart as a reward for not being skilled enough to take proper cover from fire.

[Opening Batsman]

I must admit I have always seen the Purple Heart as a joke, I believe you should only get a medal if you earn it. And I don't see getting shot as a great accomplishment. :P


Location: Auzzie Hate Level- Blue; Gaurded

OMG! I am famous! :D Can I make you an avatar to go with that? (3 Zs, by the way ;) )

[oregongrunt]

It should be taken away. The award is for being wounded in combat, not for getting in car wrecks. I think anyone who had actually been under fire would agree, if they water down this award like the bronze star, then what's the point? I knew quite a few infantrymen when I was there that had schrapnel wounds and never asked for a purple heart. It's more like a REMF to cry about wanting a purple heart for a truck collision. It really embarrases and disgusts me. Unless you've been in a combat theater or a least been in the armed forces, please don't waste our time by responding to this issue.

[11F5S]

It's not an award, it's a recognition of sacrifice.

Criteria: a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force who, while serving with the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded;

a·ward
tr.v. a·ward·ed, a·ward·ing, a·wards

1. To grant as merited or due: awarded prizes to the winners.
2. To give as legally due: awarded damages to the plaintiff.

n.

1. Something awarded or granted, as for merit.
2. A decision, such as one made by a judge or arbitrator.

[11F5S]

I must admit I have always seen the Purple Heart as a joke, I believe you should only get a medal if you earn it. And I don't see getting shot as a great accomplishment.

I don't think George Washington or anyone else in the US Military really gave/gives a **** what you think.

The Purple Heart is an American decoration—the oldest military decoration in the world in present use and the first American award made available to the common soldier. It was initially created as the Badge of Military Merit by one of the world’s most famed and best-loved heroes—General George Washington.

http://www.purpleheart.org/

[11F5S]

that's messed up he was still in the warzone it should count.

You're messed up, you're a soldier and you don't even know what the Purple Heart is awarded for.:(

http://www.purpleheart.org/Awd_of_PH.htm

[Herrmannek]

that's messed up he was still in the warzone it should count.

You're messed up, you're a soldier and you don't even know what the Purple Heart is awarded for.:(

http://www.purpleheart.org/Awd_of_PH.htm

Still: who gives and takes fries in hells

[11F5S]

you are in no position to judge this guy's self esteem (imo that's disrespectfull) he had half his face blown up and was told that it happened by a bomb and earned a purple heart for it.

Mistakes happen...and in this case the mistake was the rush to award the PH in the first place...the error was corrected.

I didn't judge Lt Ferrell's self-esteem....Read what I said again.

"Why would anyone want a medal that they didn't qualify for? Low self- esteem....perhaps."

[11F5S]

Still: who gives and takes fries in hells

Well then be prepared to fry. :P

Perhaps after you have spent more time on the planet you'll learn that life is all about giving and taking. If you don't come understand that before you marry then I suggest that you stay single.

[Herrmannek]

you are in no position to judge this guy's self esteem (imo that's disrespectfull) he had half his face blown up and was told that it happened by a bomb and earned a purple heart for it.

Mistakes happen...and in this case the mistake was the rush to award the PH in the first place...the error was corrected.

I didn't judge Lt Ferrell's self-esteem....Read what I said again.

"Why would anyone want a medal that they didn't qualify for? Low self- esteem....perhaps."

Problem is he doesn't qualify for the medal only for legal reasons i totaly don't see a difference in steping on mine or having car accident while on duty inside fighting territory... Both need same courage and other valors to achieve, but first is rewarded with medal and second one is not...

[11F5S]

dele

[11F5S]

you are in no position to judge this guy's self esteem (imo that's disrespectfull) he had half his face blown up and was told that it happened by a bomb and earned a purple heart for it.

Mistakes happen...and in this case the mistake was the rush to award the PH in the first place...the error was corrected.

I didn't judge Lt Ferrell's self-esteem....Read what I said again.

"Why would anyone want a medal that they didn't qualify for? Low self- esteem....perhaps."

Problem is he doesn't qualify for the medal only for legal reasons i totaly don't see a difference in steping on mine or having car accident while on duty inside fighting territory... Both need same courage and other valors to achieve, but first is rewarded with medal and second one is not...

Sorry I can't help you, but I'm not trained in Braile.

[Herrmannek]

I'm asking question myself who is more blind here me or you :)

[11F5S]

I'm asking question myself who is more blind here me or you :)


Both need same courage and other valors to achieve, but first is rewarded with medal and second one is not...

The PH isn't awarded for courage or valor. I hope that isn't too complex for you to understand.:P

The PURPLE HEART is awarded to members of the armed forces of the U.S. who are wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy and posthumously to the next of kin in the name of those who are killed in action or die of wounds received in action. It is specifically a combat decoration.

[11F5S]

Problem is he doesn't qualify for the medal only for legal reasons i totaly don't see a difference in steping on mine or having car accident while on duty inside fighting territory... Both need same courage and other valors to achieve, but first is rewarded with medal and second one is not...

WTF....you consider stepping on a mine or having a car accident while on duty an ACHIEVEMENT.....an achievement that requires courage and valor!!!! rofl

[Herrmannek]

I'm asking question myself who is more blind here me or you :)


Both need same courage and other valors to achieve, but first is rewarded with medal and second one is not...

The PH isn't awarded for courage or valor. I hope that isn't too complex for you to understand.:P

The PURPLE HEART is awarded to members of the armed forces of the U.S. who are wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy and posthumously to the next of kin in the name of those who are killed in action or die of wounds received in action. It is specifically a combat decoration.

I know definition, but my point is this very artificial and hurting divide line for those who had bad luck and nothing more being shot and those who had bad luck and nothing more to be run over a tank, or crashed in humvee... THis separation line is so stupid that it could go between those who lost their arms and those who lost their legs... HOUGH

[Herrmannek]

Problem is he doesn't qualify for the medal only for legal reasons i totaly don't see a difference in steping on mine or having car accident while on duty inside fighting territory... Both need same courage and other valors to achieve, but first is rewarded with medal and second one is not...

WTF....you consider stepping on a mine or having a car accident while on duty an ACHIEVEMENT.....an achievement that requires courage and valor!!!! rofl
Thats the point for both you must have only bad luck, but one is rewarded with medal and other is not :)

[JTAR7242]

It's not an award, it's a recognition of sacrifice.

Criteria: a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force who, while serving with the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded;

a·ward
tr.v. a·ward·ed, a·ward·ing, a·wards

1. To grant as merited or due: awarded prizes to the winners.
2. To give as legally due: awarded damages to the plaintiff.

n.

1. Something awarded or granted, as for merit.
2. A decision, such as one made by a judge or arbitrator.You are really good at being a jackass aren't you? You knew damn well what I meant and you decided to post your snippet anyway because you believe you're clever. I have good friends who have Purple Hearts, and not all of them are living still. Show some respect, instead of trying to be witty. There's some topics where dry humor is appropriate (I of all people should know), and others where it isn't. Figure it out, until then sit quietly.

[Jedburgh]

Not too long after the intiation of OEF, DA issued a message giving a detailed clarification of criteria for award of the Purple Heart (https://www.perscom.army.mil/tagd/awards/Message_Clarification_of_PH_CriteriaJul02.doc). This situation under discussion was brought about because - as 11F5S already stated - the command rushed the award.

3. WHEN CONTEMPLATING AN AWARD OF THIS DECORATION, THE KEY ISSUE THAT COMMANDERS MUST TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IS THE DEGREE TO WHICH THE ENEMY CAUSED THE INJURY. THE FACT THAT THE PROPOSED RECIPIENT WAS PARTICIPATING IN DIRECT, OR INDIRECT, COMBAT OPERATIONS IS A NECESSARY PREREQUISITE, BUT IS NOT A SOLE JUSTIFICATION FOR AWARD.

A. EXAMPLES OF ENEMY-RELATED INJURIES WHICH CLEARLY JUSTIFY AWARD OF THE PURPLE HEART ARE:
(1) STRUCK BY ENEMY BULLET, SHRAPNEL, OR OTHER PROJECTILE CREATED BY ENEMY ACTION.
(2) INJURY CAUSED BY ENEMY PLACED MINE OR TRAP.
(3) INJURED BY ENEMY RELEASED CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL OR NUCLEAR AGENT.
(4) INJURY AS A RESULT OF VEHICLE OR AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT CAUSED BY ENEMY FIRE.
(5) CONCUSSION INJURIES CAUSED AS A RESULT OF ENEMY GENERATED
EXPLOSIONS.

B. INJURIES OR WOUNDS WHICH CLEARLY DO NOT QUALIFY FOR AWARD OF THE PURPLE HEART ARE:
(1) FROSTBITE OR TRENCH FOOT INJURIES.
(2) HEAT STROKE.
(3) FOOD POISONING NOT CAUSED BY ENEMY AGENTS.
(4) CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL, OR NUCLEAR AGENTS NOT RELEASED BY THE ENEMY.
(5) BATTLE FATIGUE.
(6) DISEASE NOT DIRECTLY CAUSED BY ENEMY AGENTS.
(7) ANXIETY REACTIONS.
(8) ACCIDENTS, TO INCLUDE EXPLOSIVE, AIRCRAFT, VEHICULAR, AND OTHER ACCIDENTAL WOUNDINGS NOT RELATED TO OR CAUSED BY ENEMY ACTION.
(9) SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS.
(10) POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDERS.
(11) JUMP INJURIES NOT CAUSED BY ENEMY ACTION.
As if it wasn't already - Is it clear enough now?

[Herrmannek]

Damn guys WE KNOW RULES..we just state that they aren't FAIR...

[HooyahCQB]

His chances of being elected President have increased. :lol:




rofl rofl rofl rofl

[Jedburgh]

Damn guys WE KNOW RULES..we just state that they aren't FAIR...
What's not fair about them? Either the individual's death or injuries were caused by enemy actions or they were not. Seems pretty damn clear - and fair - to me.

[Herrmannek]

Damn guys WE KNOW RULES..we just state that they aren't FAIR...
What's not fair about them? Either the individual's death or injuries were caused by enemy actions or they were not. Seems pretty damn clear - and fair - to me.
What isn't fair that this medal is gaved on purely lottery based reasons... People hurt in accidents while conducting their duties or wounded from enemy hands share everything except one were lucky enough to get shot and some where not... Of course if there would be other medal of the same class as purple heart for people who were hurt not by enemy fire it would became fair then..call it "blue heart" if you want.

On curent battlefield non enemy caused accidents will became more often because to more extenisve use of uqipment, more often movments, with makes risk for soldiers greater even parts of the system became safer and safer, and less direct contact with enemy, this trend should be recognised...

[11F5S]

Lets put this in perspective, so we understand why Hermannek's has difficulty understanding the concept.

1. How may Americans does it take to change a light bulb?
a. one b. two c. three

2. How many Pols does it take to change a light bulb ?
a. one b. two c. three


Answers:

1. a. one

2. c. three... One to screw in the bulb and two to turn the ladder :lol:

:hug:

[Herrmannek]

1. How may American does it take to change a light bulb?
a. one b. two c. three

2. How many Pols does it take to change a light bulb ?
a. one b. two c. three


Answers:

1. a. one

2. c. three... One to screw in the bulb and two to turn the ladder

If you want to offend me, just find a "little" fresher jokes...

[11F5S]

On curent battlefield non enemy caused accidents will became more often because to more extenisve use of uqipment, more often movments, with makes risk for soldiers greater even parts of the system became safer and safer, and less direct contact with enemy, this trend should be recognised...

If you think that non enemy caused accidents weren't common during WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, you are sadly mistaken.

It's time you faced the fact that life in general is not fair. Of what concern is it to you how the US Military is awarded decorations, medals, and ribbons anyway? Are you currently serving in one of our Armed Forces or have you served at any time in the past .

If I were your age I be more concerned with my own life and getting laid.

[Jedburgh]

...except one were lucky enough to get shot.
:fork:

Its not a damn prize. Its a recognition of wounds suffered due to enemy action. You just don't get it. Simply being in the military, even without a war, is a risky lifestyle. Soldiers get injured and killed in garrison and during training exercises. They do not get medals for it. Nor should they. Accidents in a combat theater are no different. They are not - and should not - be recognized by any sort of medal or award.

[Herrmannek]

On curent battlefield non enemy caused accidents will became more often because to more extenisve use of uqipment, more often movments, with makes risk for soldiers greater even parts of the system became safer and safer, and less direct contact with enemy, this trend should be recognised...

If you think that non enemy caused accidents weren't common during WWII, Korea, and Vietnam, you are sadly mistaken.

It's time you faced the fact that life in general isn't not fair. Of what concern of it to you how the US Military is awarded decorations, medals, and ribbons anyway? Are you currently serving in one of our Armed Forces or have you served at any time in the past .

:), I face unfair life everyday, but if making it fairly fair in some limited aspects cost nothing noone i don't see a problems in making it that way...

[BarkingSquirrel]

Well, the guy could always just borrow one from Kerry. God knows he gave himself enough of 'em.

[Herrmannek]

...except one were lucky enough to get shot.
:fork:

Its not a damn prize. Its a recognition of wounds suffered due to enemy action. You just don't get it. Simply being in the military, even without a war, is a risky lifestyle. Soldiers get injured and killed in garrison and during training exercises. They do not get medals for it. Nor should they. Accidents in a combat theater are no different. They are not - and should not - be recognized by any sort of medal or award.

I GET IT!!!!!!!! :) What i don't argue in last few posts is that in curent law order he shouldn't earn this medal, if law says that way let it be, what I argue is that there is a point in changing that order for future cases...

Why i'll reapet myself like torn record? Because being shot is also accident no different than being struck by the car only thing needed is to be in wrong place in wrong time, so why only recognise wounds from enemy fire? Do they hurt different than any other wounds? Are they more precious? If you persist on spliting those cases into two separate groups with i can agree about, you can make new medal for thsoe who haven't enough good luck in bad luck to be shot and they were crashed in choper they were flying... of course i wouldn't include accidents caused by soldiers to themselfes...

[11F5S]

I GET IT!!!!!!!! :) What i don't argue in last few posts is that in curent law order he shouldn't earn this medal, if law says that way let it be, what I argue is that there is a point in changing that order for future cases...

What you don't get is that most of us who have served or are serving don't want it changed....DO YOU GET IT NOW?

[Herrmannek]

I GET IT!!!!!!!! :) What i don't argue in last few posts is that in curent law order he shouldn't earn this medal, if law says that way let it be, what I argue is that there is a point in changing that order for future cases...

What you don't get is that most of us who have served or are serving don't want it changed....DO YOU GET IT NOW?

And how many soldiers you asked about opinion?

Ok lets end that thread it posintless mainly because non of us have any way to impact how US medal system works :)

[11F5S]

It's not an award, it's a recognition of sacrifice.

You are really good at being a jackass aren't you? You knew damn well what I meant and you decided to post your snippet anyway because you believe you're clever.

Oh! I see it, On one hand it's okay for you to call someone an asshat and tell them they are wrong for referring to the PH as an award


It's not an award, it's a recognition of sacrifice. What the f*** do you care asshat?

While on the other hand, , I''m being a jackass for telling you it is an award, which infact it is. I decide to post my "snippet" because it's factual and you were incorrect.


I have good friends who have Purple Hearts, and not all of them are living still. Show some respect, instead of trying to be witty. There's some topics where dry humor is appropriate (I of all people should know), and others where it isn't. Figure it out, until then sit quietly

Having friends who have been awarded the PH, has absolutely nothing too do with the issue....I don't see anything witty or disrespectful in my post just facts....by the way I hope you don't have as many friends who where WIA or KIA as I do.