France may allow 'first strikes' in policy shift

[He219]

http://photo.worldnews.com/PhotoArchive//uploaded/uploaded-36493_large.jpg

The Elysée palace issued only a partial denial of the article in Libération(WN)

France may allow 'first strikes' on rogue states in policy shift (http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=457980)

By John Lichfield in Paris
28 October 2003


France is preparing to change its policy on nuclear weapons to include a threat to unleash first strikes against "rogue states", a newspaper reported yesterday.

The Elysée palace issued only a partial denial of the article in Libération. It said there had been no shift in "nuclear doctrine" since President Jacques Chirac warned two years ago that the independent deterrent - the force de frappe - could be turned against "regional powers" that threatened to use weapons of mass destruction.

Libération, quoting senior military sources, said this policy was under review and a new position would be expressed - possibly in a speech by President Chirac - by the start of next year. The new doctrine might raise the possibility of a "first strike" if France felt threatened by weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

The shift may seem strange in the light of France's refusal to approve the US-led invasion of Iraq, which was justified by American and British allegations that Baghdad was developing nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. But Paris said there was no clear proof that Iraq held such weapons and that, in any case, a military invasion would not set a sensible precedent for controlling the proliferation of WMD.

The debate on a shift in policy, also hinted at in a speech this month by Jean-Pierre Raffarin, the Prime Minister, is partly an answer to domestic criticism that M. Chirac has underplayed the dangers of WMD.

It may also be an attempt to silence grumbles within the French military about the cost of France's nuclear deterrent - €3bn (£2bn), or 10 per cent of all defence spending.

The force de frappe was built by President Charles de Gaulle in the early 1960s to defend France militarily from the Soviet Union and politically from dependence on the United States. France has Mirage and Super Etendard aircraft capable of launching mid-range nuclear missiles and four submarines capable of launching up to 16 intercontinental missiles.

Senior French military officers have questioned the need for the €17bn modernisation of the force de frappe in the next five years.

The former head of the French institute of higher defence studies, General Bernard Norlain, said a shift in doctrine was inevitable. "We have been working under the concept of non-use and deterrence," he said. "We said, 'This weapon is not designed to be used'. Now, faced with a potential enemy that is quite irrational, we are going to have to reverse that concept."

The change in French policy would bring France closer to the new US doctrine expressed in January last year. Defence sources told Libération that France was also looking at the implications of the American review's backing of "first-strike" miniature nuclear weapons, intended to attack command bunkers in "rogue" states.

Since the end of the Cold War, no clear new doctrine has yet been spelt out for Britain's nuclear deterrent, which has roughly the same capacity as that of France.


:lol:

[budanski]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! rofl

Nuclear first strike by France?
What? Shut down the (enemy) nuke plants and let everyone die of heat?

[Deuterium]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! rofl

Nuclear first strike by France?
What? Shut down the (enemy) nuke plants and let everyone die of heat?

Oh that's good..... Is Ironic a French word? This is some more of that European smart stuff we dumb Americans have been hearing about on the forum.

[usa320]

I think Chiraq is skitzophrenic. One minute hes chanting "Give peace a chance" in a tie-dye shirt while smoking a big fat doobie, and the next minute hes holding his nuclear bomb above his head screaming war chants.

rofl

[Dalleer]

Sure its nice for France to implement the "First strike"-policy, sure, but for what do they actually need it for?

Personally, I think that the french leadership is afraid to get involved into any conflicts that include them pitted against Arab/ muslim countries. Why? because they just don't want the terrorists turning their way towards Paris and stuff.

Maybe this move is a decoy, showing the "terrorist states" some muscle but never actually having the real guts to use it?

The US sure has guts to go up against Saddam/ Osama/ etc at first, but sometimes after they've done their "show" things might end up more worse than they were in the first place. And the main thing is, that it might be so that International terrorism is the new "nuclear war threat" of the 21st century, especially for Europe.

Countries that have Arab minorities in Europe are basically aware that if their governments take more aggressive roles in the "War against terrorism" they'll start getting bombed themselves from these terrorists and some such.

[NcDeuce]

France...striking anything? rofl

[GLax]

wow, so much for France's give peace a chance attitude. sounds like they wanna play in the tough guy sandbox now :lol:

[usa320]

France may allow.... 'strikes'



rofl rofl rofl rofl

[StarvingStudent47]

I think Chiraq is skitzophrenic. One minute hes chanting "Give peace a chance" in a tie-dye shirt while smoking a big fat doobie, and the next minute hes holding his nuclear bomb above his head screaming war chants.

It's amazing what happens when someone laces a doobie with synthetic testosterone, no?

[Seoulstriker]

The former head of the French institute of higher defence studies, General Bernard Norlain, said a shift in doctrine was inevitable. "We have been working under the concept of non-use and deterrence," he said. "We said, 'This weapon is not designed to be used'. Now, faced with a potential enemy that is quite irrational, we are going to have to reverse that concept."


hmmmmm. :P

[jdbjdb]

I guess he doesn't want to be seen as another Charles De Gaulle.

[He219]

The former head of the French institute of higher defence studies, General Bernard Norlain, said a shift in doctrine was inevitable. "We have been working under the concept of non-use and deterrence," he said. "We said, 'This weapon is not designed to be used'. Now, faced with a potential enemy that is quite irrational, we are going to have to reverse that concept."


hmmmmm. :P

Do you think they consider US as a potential enemy that is quite irrational?

Well boys, I guess this means Nuclear Combat toe-to-toe with the Frenchies (http://wso.williams.edu/~mhacker/Strangelove/plan-r.gif)!!

:P

[Seoulstriker]

The former head of the French institute of higher defence studies, General Bernard Norlain, said a shift in doctrine was inevitable. "We have been working under the concept of non-use and deterrence," he said. "We said, 'This weapon is not designed to be used'. Now, faced with a potential enemy that is quite irrational, we are going to have to reverse that concept."


hmmmmm. :P

Do you think they consider US as a potential enemy that is quite irrational?

Well boys, I guess this means Nuclear Combat toe-to-toe with the Frenchies (http://wso.williams.edu/~mhacker/Strangelove/cockpit.jpg)!!

:P

i really hope that the French are not thinking that the US is an irrational threat.

[usa320]

i say bring it on, then the Afghans will be trying to restore and rebuild france.

rofl

[budanski]

You have to remember this is France we're talking about here. Their version of pre-emption is to surrender before the first shot is fired.

[Seoulstriker]

You have to remember this is France we're talking about here. Their version of pre-emption is to surrender before the first shot is fired.

how true is that. i still can't believe that they would be willing to do anything possible to make sure that resolution 1441 was not enforced. chirac is such a clueless individual (to put it mildly).

[He219]

French pre-emtion would be to surrender their nuclear frappe'

http://www.starbucks.co.jp/en/images/library/beverages/rhumba_frap.gif
Rhumba Frappuccino

http://www.bevnet.com/images/reviews/atomicenergy/atomic_energy_drink.jpg
Chirac Frappe

[Seoulstriker]

French pre-emtion would be to surrender their nuclear frappe'

http://www.starbucks.co.jp/en/images/library/beverages/rhumba_frap.gif
Rhumba Frappuccino

http://www.bevnet.com/images/reviews/atomicenergy/atomic_energy_drink.jpg
Chirac Frappe

this is what the polar bears think of chirac:

http://www.polarworld.com/images/feces.jpg

[He219]

rofl



Too much Frappe?

[Seoulstriker]

rofl



Too much Frappe?

it looks like it. ;)

[jdbjdb]

Why? because they just don't want the terrorists turning their way towards Paris and stuff.
just like alot of mexicans coming across the rio grand into texas, arab population is exploding in europe, they swimming across the sea into Spain France Itlay, They are going to take over the world! ;)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

What country with the bomb does not have a first use policy, if they have not publicly declared first use, you can bet your boots its their first option.
As for the French military being useless well folks Great Britains road signs
would have been in German for a short while as well if it had not been for that bit of water between us and the rest of Europe. The unstoppable German military juggernaut rolled over mainland Europe twice in one century with ease and how many nations and how many years did it take us to stop it. You are just getting all sore because they did not support GW 2, they backed us and fought along side us in Africa and Afghanistan so what gives.

[NcDeuce]

Blitzkrieg. ;)

[jdbjdb]

How about the Maginot Line? :lol: why didn't it work? the french needed to man it, they began swimming the channel before the Germans got there
Chirac didn't help out in Iraq he didn't want to have to face his ol buddy on the battle field, Saddam Hussein
Viva La Frace!

[jdbjdb]

Why did Frace sit on their ass in the 30's allow hitler to violate The Treaty of Versailles? Major blunder millions died, countries were destroyed, it could have been prevented, League of Nations did nothing France did nothing, Where was Charles De Gaulle when Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin were meeting in Tehran? hiding under his bed? but then again he may have been there

[jdbjdb]

we should have jumped into the war in 1939 with the Canadaians but waited till the japs attacked us in 41, yes we Americans make mistakes too.

[StarvingStudent47]

The unstoppable German military juggernaut rolled over mainland Europe twice in one century with ease

Twice? When? Sure, the German offensive at the start of WWII was horiffically amazing, but WWI was not a blitzkreig! It was a gruesome stalemate on all fronts, pretty much from the beginning. At least everything I've read suggests that. Was there some dashing German offensive during WWI that I am unaware of? Or am I forgetting some other major conflict you're talking about?

[Haiw]

How about the Maginot Line? :lol: why didn't it work? the french needed to man it, they began swimming the channel before the Germans got there
:cantbeli: read a ****ing history book...it didn't work since the germans bypassed it trough the ardennes (belgian territory)

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

StarvingStudent47 do really think any nation bordering Germany could have stood up to them alone, the effort needed to restrain Germany in WW1 was huge you remember how long it took and how many nations were involved. My point is which I should have made much more clear in my earlier post was that there is a lot of picking on the French, some is plain old contempt but a lot is plain race hate. Other than to object to the invasion of Iraq what have they done to Americans, yes they objected out of self interest but do think our masters invaded Iraq solely in the interests of the people of Iraq as we are now discovering the WMD story was a crude bluff.

[NcDeuce]

Still having a hard time with the words "France" and "strike" in the same sentence. rofl

[jdbjdb]

the germans bypassed it trough the ardennes (belgian territory)

And the French didn't catch on until, Adolf Hitler was standing at the base of the Ifel Tower right? Did the French fail military tattics 101? Why go in the front door when you can slip in the back door unopposed. France and Belgium being neighbors or Germany you think they would have an idea that something was going on.

[StarvingStudent47]

Other than to object to the invasion of Iraq what have they done to Americans,

Well, they did get us into the VIETNAM WAR, which counts for something. And there's just always been a culture clash, just like Texans and New Yorkers normally don't get along, and Arabs and Persians don't get along. Americans/Texans/Arabs say that French/New Yorkers/Persians are blue-blooded weenies who can't fight, and French/New Yorkers/Persians say that Americans/Texans/Arabs are illiterate hicks who belong in a stable shoveling horse manure.

In my experience, Frenchpeople talk at least as much s--- about Americans as Americans speak about the French, but nobody criticizes THEM when THEY do it.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

StarvingStudent47 how in any direct way did France drag the US into the Veitnam War? I do hope your not going to give the long chain of events version.
And what is your experience of the French people, describe the negative interactions you have had with them.

I must say you are making a bold defence of race hatred, one day you will make a mighty fine defence lawyer.

[NcDeuce]

French in Vietnam :cantbeli:

[pinkeye]

anyone claiming that the french cannot fight is either ignorant or just plain stupid. here's a suggestion: open a history book and remove your idiotic blinders. and if you are referring to ww2, have you heard of the maquis and the free french?
furthermore, france has deployed troops to afghanistan. how quickly some forget...
if you're going to criticise france, at least do so in an intelligent manner. for starters, finish high school history...

[NcDeuce]

Here you go Frenchie.

French Military History in a Nutshell


Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare - "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen."

Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to lose two wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

Thirty Years' War: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

The Dutch War: Tied.

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War: Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the period as the height of French Military Power.

War of the Spanish Succession: Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

American Revolution: In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting".

French Revolution: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

WWI: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

WWII: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with Dien Bien Flu.

Algerian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare -"We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Eskimos.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljokefrenchmilitaryhistory.htm

I think everybody and their grandmother deployed troops to Afghanistan at one time or another.

[pinkeye]

Here you go Frenchie.

French Military History in a Nutshell


Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare - "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen."

Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to lose two wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

Thirty Years' War: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

The Dutch War: Tied.

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War: Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the period as the height of French Military Power.

War of the Spanish Succession: Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

American Revolution: In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting".

French Revolution: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

WWI: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

WWII: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with Dien Bien Flu.

Algerian Rebellion: Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare -"We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese, and Eskimos.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/jokes/bljokefrenchmilitaryhistory.htm

I think everybody and their grandmother deployed troops to Afghanistan at one time or another.

great source of information (sarcasm). if you can't provide a legitimate source, then your response can only be taken with a mighty big grain of salt.
the same ridiculous argument could be said of the u.s. since ww2, for u.s. victories (e.g. grenada, panama, iraq) haven't been terribly impressive. add korea and vietnam to the list and it becomes evident that the american military record since ww2 is less than glorious. hell, there was/is a (mis-) perception that the u.s. is soft vis-a-vis casualties. that, however, does not mean that the u.s. is inept militarily, quite the contrary.
germany lost two wars during the 20th century, yet no one disputes the efficiency and effectiveness of their military capabilities. i'm a scot. my "people" have been ruled by london for hundreds of years, yet scottish troops have always had a formidable reputation. in other words,
your post is largely meaningless because it doesn't provide any context and excludes a wide range of factors critical to any proper understanding of french and military history in general.
my point is that ignorance and blind patriotism are inexcusable. criticise france all you want, but at least provide a modicum of legitimacy to your arguments.

[jdbjdb]

i'm a scot. my "people" have been ruled by london for hundreds of years
Well then turn around and run away the highland way ;)

[usa320]

I think the french have finally realized that there are now more "Nations that are willing " then France and Germany- the nations that are unwilling.

I think perhaps they finally realize that the US is in now, and pulling out isnt an option, so they might as well make the best of it.

Also they probably now are realizing how much potential business in Iraq they lost.

Not to mention the fact that the Iraqis wont forget who was there for them and who left them to brutality.

Unfortunately for France, its too late.

[StarvingStudent47]

StarvingStudent47 how in any direct way did France drag the US into the Veitnam War? I do hope your not going to give the long chain of events version.

Here's the short version. After WWII, Ho Chi Minh came to us asking us to support Vietnamese independence, and France came to us to ask for tacit consent in recolonizing France. As part of the Marshall Plan, we chose the latter. Ho resisted France's re-colonization forcefully--and had to go to Beijing to get the arms to do so. He finally whooped the French at Dien Bien Phu. We then stepped in for them and proceeded to fight the Vietnam War. None of it would have happened if Charles de Gaulle had recognized the Vietnamese right for national self-determination and hadn't tried to forcibly recolonize "Indochine."


I must say you are making a bold defence of race hatred, one day you will make a mighty fine defence lawyer.
Race hatred? Puhleeze. I compared a traditional American-French rivalry as parallel to a traditional Texan-New Yorker rivalry. Where's the race hatred there? Are you really telling me that out of all the pejorative slurs that are casually tossed back and forth on this board, that you think my statement that "Frenchpeople think Americans are ignorant hicks, and Americans think that the French are blue-blooded weenies" is really so offensive? Get a life.

[Haiw]

And the French didn't catch on until, Adolf Hitler was standing at the base of the Ifel Tower right? Did the French fail military tattics 101? Why go in the front door when you can slip in the back door unopposed. France and Belgium being neighbors or Germany you think they would have an idea that something was going on.
you really didn't pass the history test eh?

ok, here's the short version:
french defense against germany was based on the maginot line...if u'd take the maginot line, u'd have taken france...however, as was proven in WW1, it was almost inpenetrable. The germans tried to bypass it in WW1, but they couldnt get trough belgium...also, the plan in ww1 might have succeeded would they go trough the netherlands, but they decided not to violate our neutrality. now fast forward to ww2: the germans went trough the netherlands to get an easier shot at belgium, and mister guderian pulled off the big magic act nobody on either side of the border (belgians, french, germans) thought possible; blitzkrieg trough the ardennes...
so in this way they bypassed the 'big mighty line', which basically rendered the french defenseless..

besides they did know they might get attacked, but thanks to mister chamberlain with all his 'peace in our time'-talking half or europe went asleep quietly..

[Shadow]

Blitzkrieg. ;)

Shock & Awe ;)

[stephane from Paris]

Hi All our americans friends!
Since i just saw a post on french military history (the same as read on ARC forum 7 months ago with received my response too), i would clarify some errors:
-200/150 years before Julius Caesars, the Gallic chief BRENNUS (the add on armor on AMX30 have his name) invaded Itally and go in front of Rome (Roma in english?). the romans gave gold to save their city!!

-Julius caesars invade Gaul (with gallics allieds) it's right but have a look on his book (the War of the gaul) to know what he'd think about gallic!!
It's clear that he won because gallic weren't unify!

-Charlemagne (don't know the Englixh name) unified a kingdom which contained actual France Belgium and 1/4 of Germany!

-The Duke of normandy (Viking origin but french), go to england with a little troop and win Astings battle against English king! The new english king speak french.

-the 100 years war: was a war between kingdom of France (1/3 of actual France) and kingdom of England allied with some of french lords who didn't accept the law of the king! For example the duke of Bougogne was powerfull like the king (and he gave Joan of Arc of English)!
At the end of this period, the France's king controlled most of France!

-We loose canada because there were 1 french emigrant for 13 british's , french people didn't want to leave their sweet homeland, so it was quite evident that Canada will be loose.

-Napoleonic wars: 1 country against all Europe! thousands of battle won with lesser numerous soldiers!

-French/Prussian war (1970), the prussians invaded east of France when new revolutionnaries troubles was in order! The people of Paris was in Revolt when Prussians came. At the end the east of France (Alsace and Loraine) is under Prussian control.

-WW1 All of people here wanted to free the east of france! France+England and allieds had 180 divisions when Germany+Austria/hungary had 160 divisions!!
USA go in war very later , when their ships for UK were too much attacked by Germans!
France paid a very very hight human cost.

-WW2 During the mid 30's the socialist took won elections, and a ultra right movement came here like in Italia and Germany!
France like England didn't stop Hitler because there'were socials and politicals problems and because people said NOT AGAIN!!
You know the rest!

-Indochina: USA didn't want that France came back in Indochina (England said yes) and gave weapons later when Communist became their new ennemy! Indochina was 3 more bigger than South Vietnam, there were lesser troop than USA send 10 years later, and the result was the same.

-Algeria: French army never loose a battle against FLN but the situation was the same as Vietnam for USA!! Press and left wing people wanted the war ended and people here in France didn't understood why young conscripts died!!

I can add that Foreign legion have 30% of French soldiers (who took foreign identity like Belgian), this corps isn't full of non french as i read in some comments.

All of these example are FACTS!! Next monday i'll post a letter on the current situation who give me all right with that i predicted 7 month ago!
Regards to americans who are still our friends!
stephane

[stephane from Paris]

n/t

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

StarvingStudent47 your assumtion that the US was not involved in Veitnam until the French were forced to throw in the towel is very wrong, the CIA flew 682 airdrop missions to French troops at Dien Bien Phu between March 13 and May 7 1954. The number of covert ops carried out by the CIA on behalf of the French has not been fully revealed as yet. The US support of France during this conflict is not to be under estimated, the anti-colonial stance the US took after WW2 was soon replaced by anti communist hysteria and even if the French had not returned to Indochina can you imagine the US letting a communist or at the very least radical socialist such as Uncle Ho take up the reigns of power. If my memory serves me did not the US also get humped by the little guys.
You speak of your experience of the French peope bad mouthing the US, but what is your personal experience of the French.

NOTE: I feel that the US were correct in their actions in South East Asia, a stand had to made against soviet/chinese communist expansion in the area.

[/b]

[pinkeye]

i'm a scot. my "people" have been ruled by london for hundreds of years
Well then turn around and run away the highland way ;)

run away the highland way? i have no idea what you are talking about and my guess is that you know absolutely nothing about scottish history.

[Guttorm]

Pinkey... Theres a LOT of people her, who knows absoloutly nothing about a LOT... :) ;)

[pinkeye]

Pinkey... Theres a LOT of people her, who knows absoloutly nothing about a LOT... :) ;)

:lol:

[martinexsquaddie]

and how many napolonic battles did you win against the British
clue 0
how about Quebec great french victory
trafalger
agincourt
crecy
Albehera
and of Course WATERLOO
HOP OFF YOU FROGS

[stephane from Paris]

British didn't came when Napoleon's military power was high! They were affraid that he cross the Chanel at this time! napoleon made the error to leave his idea to build ships (need a lots because UK was the first navy power (Trafalgar)) and prefer Austria/hungary/Russia.
check your books about waterloo, you'll be surprise!! Napoleon build an army in a few weeks with some veterans and youngs patriots who don't want a king's back , he was in front of UK army with autrian one on his side.
With undernumerous soldiers, undertrained soldiers the end of the battle wasn't play for hours!!
Azicourt and Crecy was durind the 100 years war, it wasn't all the kingdom of France against UK!! have a read on these battle you'll see that kings of England didn't accept the rules of knighthood!!
btw it's just battle, we won the war!!! we never saw an english king in paris like there was a french king in London (Guillaume)!
Quebec: 1 against 13 you need more????
Like you see, we can debate tons of time, the difference is that i never insult someone like you did (french better education????? ).
Kisssss

[Fargin]

Blitzkrieg. ;)

Shock & Awe ;)

Wash & go p-)

[Shadow]

Blitzkrieg. ;)

Shock & Awe ;)

Wash & go p-)

Plug & Play :bash: :D