Who Said - The Roots of Europe are Muslim as much Christian

[BlackRain]

Trivia:

Who Said, "the roots of Europe are Muslim as much as Christian" on October 29, 2003 in The Barber?

The exact quote is, "Les racines de l'Europe sont autant musulmanes que chrétiennes"

Do you believe this to be true?

[Weasel]

Who cares?

[BigBaribal]

It's Jacques Chirac.

A long French tradition: François Ier already choosed the Ottomans party against the "Sainte Alliance".

[Nordic Fire]

Do you believe this to be true?
Well, if you really look at it, the roots of Europe are pagan. Fortunately we're pretty much post-christian already and our Constitution will hopefully be explicitly secular (i.e. no mention of any particular religion). If not, I'll be voting against it.

[Ichhabe]

Nordic Fire; truly as "God" is my witness... Your avatar freaks me out. Have you no shame when you use a pic of a man that doesn't know what he is doing? :D

[Gyles84]

Off topic; who IS that guy in your avatar?

[BigBaribal]

Btw, according to the French president, Europe has not only "muslim roots", but we are all also "children of Byzance" :roll:

http://turquieeuropeenne.org/article201.html


I prefer myself to remember names like Poitiers, Lépante, Vienne, Kahlenberg etc... to have a more historical point of view on the subject.


But it must be noted that Chirac is playing "solo" in France with this attitude (even his own party doesn't agree with him):

http://img171.exs.cx/img171/2800/0412Lesfranaissontdescons.jpg

[Nordic Fire]

Nordic Fire; truly as "God" is my witness... Your avatar freaks me out. Have you no shame when you use a pic of a man that doesn't know what he is doing? :D
I am beyond shame... but did you know that they're making a movie (http://www.solarfilms.com/default.cfm?cd=1156&dept0=1046) (sorry, only in Finnish) of the guy? ;)

Gyles84: it's Matti Nykänen - a master skijumper who went on to become an "entertainer" (singer, stripper, you name it) and a regular on the pages of the yellow press. He's now rotting in prison for an attempted murder - and yes, in full accordance to the Finnish stereotype, it was a drunken knife fight. ;) It's really a sad story, but the pic is just hilarious.

[BigBaribal]

Do you believe this to be true?
Well, if you really look at it, the roots of Europe are pagan. Fortunately we're pretty much post-christian already and our Constitution will hopefully be explicitly secular (i.e. no mention of any particular religion). If not, I'll be voting against it.


But with Turkey, Europe will get a "laic" country, muslim at 99,2%, with mollahs paid by the state and "low-activity" persecutions other the 0,8% of the population who is not muslim :roll:


In fact, the religion parameter is not even important (faith is a personal matter), but it's really a civilisational question, as even reference to the Greek heritage of Europe has been cut off.

So, with Turkey, we have a party with strong and affirmed roots. On our side, weak and pale abstract values. Just great and of course the a-cultured lemmings find that cool!

[Ichhabe]

Nordic Fire; truly as "God" is my witness... Your avatar freaks me out. Have you no shame when you use a pic of a man that doesn't know what he is doing? :D
I am beyond shame... but did you know that they're making a movie (http://www.solarfilms.com/default.cfm?cd=1156&dept0=1046) (sorry, only in Finnish) of the guy? ;)

Gyles84: it's Matti Nykänen - a master skijumper who went on to become an "entertainer" (singer, stripper, you name it) and a regular on the pages of the yellow press. He's now rotting in prison for an attempted murder - and yes, in full accordance to the Finnish stereotype, it was a drunken knife fight. ;) It's really a sad story, but the pic is just hilarious.

Just a few selected words from that story:

yleisömenestyselokuvistaan 26 letters.

muuntautuu 5 U's in a 10 letter word.

huippuurheilijaksi WTF?

urheilusaavutustensa The Finns sure do love long words.

maailmanmestaruutta This was one of the shortest words in that article.

[Nordic Fire]

But with Turkey, Europe will get...
Uhhuh? And the EU won't have anything to say to that?

If Turkey, or anyone else for that matter, joins us they'll have to conform to our secular, neutral values as well. You might call them weak (personally I think any religious belief is a sign of weakness), but I don't think it's state's role to uphold any particular values. Any talk about "Christian roots" is just bollocks.

[Nordic Fire]

yleisömenestyselokuvistaan 26 letters.
Yep. Finnish is like German in that sense. We tie words together - that "word" is actually three words.

[radon]

Nordic Fire; truly as "God" is my witness... Your avatar freaks me out. Have you no shame when you use a pic of a man that doesn't know what he is doing? :D
I am beyond shame... but did you know that they're making a movie (http://www.solarfilms.com/default.cfm?cd=1156&dept0=1046) (sorry, only in Finnish) of the guy? ;)

Gyles84: it's Matti Nykänen - a master skijumper who went on to become an "entertainer" (singer, stripper, you name it) and a regular on the pages of the yellow press. He's now rotting in prison for an attempted murder - and yes, in full accordance to the Finnish stereotype, it was a drunken knife fight. ;) It's really a sad story, but the pic is just hilarious.

Offtopic. He doesen't know how to behave in restaurants. He is an alcoholic. He has beat up his wife many times. The wife keeps coming back. He did once a music cd which of course sucks beyound what is possible to explain with words. Everything he has done after ski jumping has been a miserable failure. http://www.mattinykanen.net/files/samurai_32.mp3

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

Do you believe this to be true?
Well, if you really look at it, the roots of Europe are pagan. Fortunately we're pretty much post-christian already and our Constitution will hopefully be explicitly secular (i.e. no mention of any particular religion). If not, I'll be voting against it.

x2
Thankfully most of Europe has got beyond the folly of state religion.

[superapan]

Just a few selected words from that story:

yleisömenestyselokuvistaan 26 letters.

muuntautuu 5 U's in a 10 letter word.

huippuurheilijaksi WTF?

urheilusaavutustensa The Finns sure do love long words.

maailmanmestaruutta This was one of the shortest words in that article.
Like another posted explained, those are (although I don't speak finnish) several connected words.

You'd say 'chocolate cake", where I'd say 'chocolatecake'. Nowadays the youngsters read a lot of mostly english literature, and they start putting words apart like they do. That can cause some problems. For example, a popular swedish sweet around christmas is called (translated) 'marshmallowgnome'. If you'd call it 'marshmallow gnome' it'd mean 'strange gnome'. Am I making any sense?

Offtopic? Yep :p

[BigBaribal]

But with Turkey, Europe will get...
Uhhuh? And the EU won't have anything to say to that?

If Turkey, or anyone else for that matter, joins us they'll have to conform to our secular, neutral values as well. You might call them weak (personally I think any religious belief is a sign of weakness), but I don't think it's state's role to uphold any particular values. Any talk about "Christian roots" is just bollocks.


In 1997, during a speech, the current prime-minister of Turkey Erdogan said that:


The minarets are our bayonets, the domes our helmets, and the mosques our barracks.


From Turkey side, strong roots. From Nordic Fire's side, yes bollocks, just weak and poor brain-washed liberal bollocks.

And when strong roots meet bollocks, who wins?

[moughoun]

You know Bigbaribal, what's ironic is your from probably the most isolated country in Europe, you only joined the UN a few year's ago, you've stayed neutral in every thing for centuries, and now your giving every one else lecture's on what to do, that is truly bollock's

[BigBaribal]

I never felt isolated as a Swiss. Is there a wide sea between Switzerland and Europe, is there a big wall?

We are in the center of Europe, with more than 20% of our workers from foreign origine and with about 65% of ours industry working for the outside.

Btw, the Swiss citizen are statistically the biggest travellers of the whole Europe.

So, as a Swiss, I'm certainly much less "isolated" than someone for instance posting from a lost village in the deep end of Connemara :lol:

[BigBaribal]

And even if I am the biggest of the "isolated" dumbass moron, Turkey prime minister really said that:


The minarets are our bayonets, the domes our helmets, and the mosques our barracks.


That's a fact, a simple fact and nothing will change that even if it is someone from an "isolated" country who tells this fact.

[moughoun]

I never felt isolated as a Swiss. Is there a wide sea between Switzerland and Europe, is there a big wall?

We are in the center of Europe, with more than 20% of our workers from foreign origine and with about 65% of ours industry working for the outside.

Btw, the Swiss citizen are statistically the biggest travellers of the whole Europe.

So, as a Swiss, I'm certainly much less "isolated" than someone for instance posting from a lost village in the deep end of Nebraska :lol:
politically isolated, I didn't realise there were lost village's in Nebraska, you learn something new every day

[moughoun]

And even if I am the biggest of the "isolated" dumbass moron, Turkey prime minister really said that:


The minarets are our bayonets, the domes our helmets, and the mosques our barracks.


That's a fact, a simple fact and nothing will change that even if it is someone from an "isolated" country who tells this fact.

well you don't have to worry, the Swiss are neutral, notthing as usual will happen there

[moughoun]

So, as a Swiss, I'm certainly much less "isolated" than someone for instance posting from a lost village in the deep end of Connemara

my Mother's from Galway jackass

[BigBaribal]

Is Norway isolated because this country is not part of the political Europe?

No and it's the same for Switzerland.

[BigBaribal]

And even if I am the biggest of the "isolated" dumbass moron, Turkey prime minister really said that:


The minarets are our bayonets, the domes our helmets, and the mosques our barracks.


That's a fact, a simple fact and nothing will change that even if it is someone from an "isolated" country who tells this fact.

well you don't have to worry, the Swiss are neutral, notthing as usual will happen there


Irland was also neutral and is perhaps still neutral, isnt'it?

[moughoun]

Is Norway isolated because this country is not part of the political Europe?

No and it's the same for Switzerland.

no Norway is different, Norway activly participate's in NATO , the UN, and they are alot closer to the EU then Switzerland, I have notthing against the Swiss or Switzerland, but I'm not going to be lectured on what I should do by them either

[moughoun]

And even if I am the biggest of the "isolated" dumbass moron, Turkey prime minister really said that:


The minarets are our bayonets, the domes our helmets, and the mosques our barracks.


That's a fact, a simple fact and nothing will change that even if it is someone from an "isolated" country who tells this fact.

well you don't have to worry, the Swiss are neutral, notthing as usual will happen there


Irland was also neutral and is perhaps still neutral, isnt'it?
Yes, but 250,000+ plus Irish served in the Commonwealth forces in the war's, we are in the EU UN ect ect

[walford]

Do you believe this to be true?Well, if you really look at it, the roots of Europe are pagan. Fortunately we're pretty much post-christian already and our Constitution will hopefully be explicitly secular (i.e. no mention of any particular religion). If not, I'll be voting against it.x2 Thankfully most of Europe has got beyond the folly of state religion.Yes, Europe actually had religions long before any of the Biblical Scriptures were ever written. We should bear in mind however that 'pagan' is a pejorative term for any religion that did not originate in a place where there is a lot of sand.

When those who worship the God of Abraham [Jews, Christians Muslims] use that term, the understanding is that they are referring to people who are not practicing a True religion at all. Webster's defines 'pagan' as an irreligious hedonistic person.

Furthermore, many who label themselves as 'pagan' are actually New Age Wiccans and Neo-Druids. These groups are over-populated by ex-hippies, nudists, wife-swappers and hirsute corpulent females who wear sensible shoes who get together for potluck dinners involving a great deal of chocolate. Watch with whom you are associated.

So I don't use that term. My religion did indeed originate in Europe and is based upon the idea that the Almighty communicates with us via physical/natural phenomena -- not through writings. What do you call that? Well, politically my convictions are based upon Natural Law which is itself based upon Natural theology.

There is nothing wrong with our religion guiding convictions. However, once we start saying that 'my God/religion is the one and only' therefore the government should be used to enforce it, then we are treading toward despotism -- and blasphemy because finite beings cannot presume to act on behalf of the Infinite.

[BigBaribal]

You're right, Walford.

For instance, in Norway, the pagan native religion has recently been officially recognized.

As an example, also here a figure of a native totem in Lettonia:

http://img185.exs.cx/img185/2325/ACFAB62.jpg


And I think it's a real pity that the European authorities not only want to forget the Christian and the Greco-Roman roots of Europe, but also the memory of the civilisations before these eras.

Just like if Europe was a "blank sheet" on which anybody, and especially the newcomers, can write on it what they want, without respect for our past!

[BigBaribal]

Thankfully most of Europe has got beyond the folly of state religion.


And once again, it's not a question of faith (a personal matter), it's a question of civilisational structures. Because an empty space (or a deliberately emptied space) never stays empty long, when facing something concrete!

[Loco]

When I read the word "roots" I must look back to my ancestors, and Islam is not my root, in no way. Islam and islamics always were the enemy, the invaders, that´s the historic fact: arabs, berbers or turks, it doesn´t matter, always were enemies, to be or not to be, while the wars against any other european country were only a matter of getting more or less power, but we never were in danger of pereshing as a people or a countrye warring agaisnt other europeans. I feel heir of the roman-greek-christian cultures that have shaped my country and the most of Europe, at least west europe.

[Loco]

And I think it's a real pity that the European authorities not only want to forget the Christian and the Greco-Roman roots of Europe, but also the memory of the civilisations before these eras.

Just like if Europe was a "blank sheet" on which anybody, and especially the newcomers, can write on it what they want, without respect for our past!
I think "civilization" is sometimes a word too big to name some people that lived in europe, I wouldn´t speak of a "celt" civilization(pre-roman era), or a "german civilization"(in the time of the barbars tribes, not recently) I say this humbly as a representant of the oldest people living in Europe that could be called as the oldest civilization of europe, and we really hadn´t our own civilization, although we certainly existed as a dfferentiated people. Btw, I´ll vote No to european constitution.