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BigBaribal
01-29-2005, 01:39 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/11/05/nschool05.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/11/05/ixnewstop.html



School told to drop its 'offensive' saint's name
By Liz Lightfoot, Education Correspondent
(Filed: 05/11/2004)

A C of E school has been told to drop the word "saint" from its name in case it offends other religious groups.

The practice of calling schools after saints or bishops alienates people from other faiths and non-believers, say officials and councillors in Islington, north London.
Head teacher John Stewart: 'There is no reason why we should change our name'

The row is over the name of the first Church of England secondary school to be built in the borough, which lost control of education five years ago after Ofsted found it was running some of the worst schools in the country.

Islington council plans to incorporate the existing St Mary Magdalene Church of England Primary School into a new City Academy for five- to 18-year-olds.

The church, which is giving £2 million towards building costs, has been told by the local authority - a partner in the scheme - that the name of the new school cannot be religious.

James Kempton, children and young people spokesman for the council's ruling Liberal Democrat party, said a consultation had been launched because of concerns over the use of the word "saint".

"We want to create a school that is open to everybody in the community, not a school that selects through the back door," he said. "We need to ensure this is a school which is appropriate for Islington in the 21st century.

"Church-going is now a much less significant part of people's lives."

Parents, governors and teachers at St Mary Magdalene, however, are determined to keep the name. John Stewart, the head teacher, said: "We have been serving the community in the area since 1710 and there is no reason why we should change our name.

"The name makes our Christian ethos clear to everyone and there are plenty of Church of England schools named after saints in Islington and elsewhere which take children from many other faiths or none who want the education and ethos we offer."

The council has suggested that the school be called the Islington Academy or the Barnsbury Academy. The London Diocesan Board says that if the new school is to have a new name, it should be "Magdalene Academy", which would still denote a Christian ethos.

Most parents want to keep the existing name, however. Kate McMurdie, 33, said dropping it would be "ludicrous" and offend parents who took their religion seriously. Karen Hicks said that it would take away the school's identity and make it like any other.

Tom Peryer, the London Diocesan Board's director for schools, said there had been a long history of hostility towards faith schools in Islington.

A spokesman for the Board of Deputies of British Jews said the Jewish community would have no objection to the school being named after a Christian saint. "We live in a multi-cultural country," he said.

A referendum held by the council in 2001 found 98 per cent of parents wanted a new secondary, of which 41 per cent wanted it to be a Church of England school.

Another example which shows that multiculturalism = end of the Western world.

I just love the concept: we must delete our heritage because of the multiculturalism ideology, but because of the multiculturalism ideology we must accept alien ways in our countries. Another great "double standard" and of course, our PC lemmings see nothing and find that great!

Elmo
01-29-2005, 01:47 PM
What prevents people from practicing their religion and enforcing their culture in the private sphere? "Western world" (whatever that is) is not going anywhere.

Geez. Aren't you Dutch? What ever happened to the pilarization model and tolerance?

BigBaribal
01-29-2005, 01:55 PM
"What ever happened to the pilarization model and tolerance?"


I'm not Dutch by the way, but here's an example of what the tolerance model gives in the end in Holland: what is called in the USA, "white flight":

http://img188.exs.cx/img188/6022/0412Dutchdesertion.jpg

Elmo
01-29-2005, 01:58 PM
Well, extreme action (the murder) followed by extreme reaction.

Does this capture the big picture? Doubt it.

BigBaribal
01-29-2005, 02:08 PM
Well, extreme action (the murder) followed by extreme reaction.

Does this capture the big picture? Doubt it.


I think it's the "big picture".

Some links about Holland:

http://dutchreport.blogspot.com/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6531846/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4625965,00.html


The "multiculti" utopia is simply crashing down in Europe. In fact, this utopia is not so old, just dating from the sixties. So, a backlash is coming these days and it's a very good thing. And because of demographic parameters, the sooner the better.

meh
01-29-2005, 03:05 PM
That seems to be more of an issue of bull**** political correctness than multiculturalism.

Multiculturalism only existing since the 60's? rofl

<Gypsum Fantastic>
01-29-2005, 03:58 PM
"What ever happened to the pilarization model and tolerance?"


I'm not Dutch by the way, but here's an example of what the tolerance model gives in the end in Holland: what is called in the USA, "white flight":

http://img188.exs.cx/img188/6022/0412Dutchdesertion.jpg

Those damn immigrants are destroying the Australian culture, imposing foreign ways on the natives....

Multiculturalism is a beautiful thing, you just want to choose which cultures to share with. ;)

BigBaribal
01-29-2005, 05:00 PM
But I fully agree with you.

Massive immigration destroys indigene cultures and what happened to the aborigenes is a perfect example of this process.

That's why I'm against any form of colonialism.


But these two Dutch people won't change anything of the Australian identity, as both Holland and Australia are part of the Western world, sharing the same values and ways of thinking, only with minor differences which are not essential.

<Gypsum Fantastic>
01-29-2005, 05:45 PM
But I fully agree with you.

Massive immigration destroys indigene cultures and what happened to the aborigenes is a perfect example of this process.

That's why I'm against any form of colonialism.

But these two Dutch people won't change anything of the Australian identity, as both Holland and Australia are part of the Western world, sharing the same values and ways of thinking, only with minor differences which are not essential.

Thats true. But it's not the people coming in to the country that are trying to change things, it's people who go so over the top to be politically correct Having lived in areas with large muslim populations i can't say that they are any different from anywhere else. The fact is a genuine muslim has exactly the same principles as a genuine christian or any other religion. And therefore will not change anything or the national identity.

In fact i'm damn sure that more Atheists find Church of England schooling far more offensive than anyone!

BigBaribal
01-29-2005, 06:54 PM
The fact is a genuine muslim has exactly the same principles as a genuine christian or any other religion. And therefore will not change anything or the national identity.

Make a search for the definition of the word "dhimmi".

BigBaribal
01-29-2005, 06:58 PM
The fact is a genuine muslim has exactly the same principles as a genuine christian or any other religion. And therefore will not change anything or the national identity.

Make a search for the definition of the word "dhimmi".


And, for taking examples outside the Western world, search what happened to peoples like the Amazighs in Algeria or the Kalash in Pakistan when islam became the biggest force there.

Gyles84
01-29-2005, 07:26 PM
Growing up in a 'multiculural' society hasn't given me any headaches. The poblem is IMO the lack of proper integration efforts. AFAIK we don't have any kind of oath of alleigence as the US.

As for Muslims, my mother and her half of the family are Muslim. She has one or two Muslim friends. Some of my neigbours and frinds are Muslim. Seriously, most are just totally normal ppl doing 9-5 jobs, paying taxes trying to get by in life like the rest of us. Im not talking abut extremists or the Finsbury Park nutters. Their ilk deserve everything and anything sent their way. Im just not going to tarnish the whole muslim community over the actions of an idiotic (and dangerous) minority.

Para
01-30-2005, 09:27 AM
Now the Muslim have started setting up there own schools, I wonder if the Council will apply the same rules to these schools?.

cut
01-30-2005, 09:31 AM
Another example which shows that multiculturalism = end of the Western world.

I just love the concept: we must delete our heritage because of the multiculturalism ideology, but because of the multiculturalism ideology we must accept alien ways in our countries. Another great "double standard" and of course, our PC lemmings see nothing and find that great!

White power!

:roll:

BigBaribal
01-30-2005, 09:33 AM
Thanks for the bump, Cut, and I seize this oportunity to give a link to a very interesting Dutch TV documentary on the subject (with english subtitles):

http://66.195.17.52/~vmarks/archive/

Durandal
01-30-2005, 11:27 AM
Another example which shows that multiculturalism = end of the Western world.

Actually, this is a Brave New World sort of thing, where we remove all culture from society. Nice shades of grey where everyone is the same.

True multiculturalism would allow a Church with "Saint" in the name. True multiculturalism would be a nation where Jews, Muslims, and Christians could worship any where any time while those without faith lived our lives without someone else's faith being forced up on us.