H&K or SIG?

[Dude, Seriously]

I will be purchasing a new pistol in the coming weeks and have narrowed it down between H&K and SIG. I want something for shooting at the ranges on the weekends but that is also practical for personal defense. I thought I'd get some input from you guys on which brand to go with, and also which caliber 9mm, .357 sig, .40, .45.

[gaijinsamurai]

I recommend that you fire both and decide which is best for you. I personally prefer the HK, but the SIG might be better for you. They are both fine guns.
As for caliber, I'd go for .45 ACP or .40 S&W.
9mm gets a lot of disrespect, but it really isn't a bad round, especially with some of the premium loads available. If you want something that is small and concealable, maybe a 9mm would be the better choice. If you want a full-size pistol, I recommend a larger caliber.

[Doomsayer]

I would go for a SIG ...

swiss made stuff is mostly the best ....

look at

watches
knifes
tools (like screwdrivers)

[REMOV]

swiss made stuff is mostly the best .... look at watches knifes tools (like screwdrivers)...cuckoo clocks ;)

[Doomsayer]

that was fast ;)

[Geezah]

You may want to look at the price of extra mags as well, standard capacity mags(also known as high caps to the Libs) are pretty cheap for Sigs as they are everywhere, H&K on the other hand are quite pricey.
I own a P226 and P239, both in 9mm with Nitron slides with Night Sights. I've shot a H&K P2000(.40 S&W) and wasn't that impressed but I am a Sig die hard.
Why not check out SIG forum (http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=674608412) also Ivanhoe Outlet (http://ivanhoeoutlet.com/) and CDNN (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/index.html) for mag prices.

Happy trails ;)

[Gringo]

swiss made stuff is mostly the best .... look at watches knifes tools (like screwdrivers)...cuckoo clocks ;)

cheese

[Frens]

Pistol? I would go with SIG too

[jprichard]

I own a USP compact in .40 the felt recoil is rather stout because of the lightweight polymer frame. If you decide on .40 or .357 I"d go with the Sig. I've never been pleased with trigger on my HK either. If you are near PineHurst N.C. look up EDs guns he is cheap.

[Shadow]

I would go for a SIG ...

swiss made stuff is mostly the best ....

look at

watches
knifes
tools (like screwdrivers)

How about good Kraut stuff ;)
and cuckoo clocks are german :fork: :P
I hope you'll visit a blackforest tourist shop sometime...
:)

[Werewolf01]

You really can't loose either way, but I would have to go with the SIG too from personl experience. My next pistol is going to be a GSR. I love the P220 and the P226.

[Geezah]

My next pistol is going to be a GSR.

You might be interested in the following, GSR Commander & Officer (http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=674608412&f=430601935&m=635104181) ;)

[Firefly26]

I had a USP 40 compact too, and I was not impressed with it. It was rugged and reliable, but kind of clumsy too. My ultimate pick would be a Sig P226 in .357 Sig. I hear great things about .357 Sig. The .40 S&W I was shooting wasn't too accurate either. I'd go with .357 or .45 if I wanted something bigger, but if I was going to get a .45, I'd get a Kimber or any other good 1911.

[Werewolf01]

I have a USP 45. I thought, hmmm..I could carry it. I bought a beautiful piece of Galco leather and did so. I was in the bathroom at a local mall (the first time I carried it in public) and went to undo my breeches, and the weight of the bloody thing dropped my pants and the gun straight to the ground. Cleared the room faster than an MRE fart. :oops:

[Glock]

I would take Sig. A 9mm P226. After Glock i would definatly take a sig. And only in 9mm.
Greetings Leo

[Initiative]

I would recommend the HK USP in .45. I don't have one, but I have a HK Mark23 that I am very happy with. (I hear that the SEALs will probably be using a modified .45 USP as their issued pistol in the future.)

[MEGR]

If you wanted to get a .45, get a Kimber. What a sweet piece of smackdown that is. Accurate too!

[Glock]

you can hear many things but i dont think that they are dropping the Sig for HK.

[yiorgo]

Sig 220 in 45 is the way to go......most accurate 45 out of the boxs hands down....and i have owned all sorts of pistols......in my eyes Sig will always be #1....followed by Glock.....and HK third

[Seraphim]

If you wanted to get a .45, get a Kimber. What a sweet piece of smackdown that is. Accurate too!

Its a tough decision between the Kimber TLE/RL II and the Springfield Operator.

[Initiative]

If you wanted to get a .45, get a Kimber. What a sweet piece of smackdown that is. Accurate too!

Its a tough decision between the Kimber TLE/RL II and the Springfield Operator.

Go with Kimber. :)

[Seraphim]

Im waiting to see what the coming soon Kimber Warrior will have to offer.

[Laconian]

I've shot both the HK USP Compact and the SIGs P226 (9 & .40), P228 (9), & P229 (.40). I've also carried (concealed) all the SIGs as duty guns. You need to feel, shoot & evaluate based on your ergonomics, needs, etc. Not what you get from folks who don't know you (size, stature experience). Personally, I would recommend the SIGs, especially the 226 in 9 or .40. I carry a P229 now & am switching back to a .40 226...

[BlackFlag]

.45 ACP

[Ratman]

I would recommend the HK USP in .45. I don't have one, but I have a HK Mark23 that I am very happy with. (I hear that the SEALs will probably be using a modified .45 USP as their issued pistol in the future.)

Congrats on your 1000 post and very funny avatar. Interesting thread, too. Strange, but I've had the same question question brewing for months. Thanks for everyone's comments.

[Initiative]

I would recommend the HK USP in .45. I don't have one, but I have a HK Mark23 that I am very happy with. (I hear that the SEALs will probably be using a modified .45 USP as their issued pistol in the future.)

Congrats on your 1000 post and very funny avatar. Interesting thread, too. Strange, but I've had the same question question brewing for months. Thanks for everyone's comments.

Thanks! I'm glad you like it.

[Doomsayer]

I would go for a SIG ...

swiss made stuff is mostly the best ....

look at

watches
knifes
tools (like screwdrivers)

How about good Kraut stuff ;)
and cuckoo clocks are german :fork: :P
I hope you'll visit a blackforest tourist shop sometime...
:)

okay okay german also make good stuff

bmw, mercedes, porsche woot woot

dont forget
Die Bratwurst, Der Schnitzel, Warsteiner and DTM woot

[Freibier]

As to SIG pistols and swissmade - the p22x series is produced in Eckernförde /Germany by Sauer und Sohn. It's a german/swiss cooperation, not swiss only ;)

[HumptyDumpty]

id say shoot them both and see what is more comfortable and as for stopping power it dosent matter what cal. its all n shot placement and the size of holes you want ... gl with the purchase

[Dude, Seriously]

I will be going to the gun store this weekend and hopefully testing them out but as of right now I am confident that I will settle on the SIG P226R DAK .40

I appreciate all the input guys!

http://www.sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/p226r-dak-large.jpg

[ramy]

I heard nothing but good things about the HK USP series of pistols..
HK Mark 23 is also great !

[James]

If you wanted to get a .45, get a Kimber. What a sweet piece of smackdown that is. Accurate too!

Amen, X1000

Why have you figured on a Sig or HK? Just curious.

I am a 1911 Gov't Model .45 guy.

[Initiative]

If you wanted to get a .45, get a Kimber. What a sweet piece of smackdown that is. Accurate too!

Amen, X1000

Why have you figured on a Sig or HK? Just curious.

I am a 1911 Gov't Model .45 guy.

I don't have a 1911, how reliable are they? I've heard mixed reports.

[Mark Sman]

Too bad the extractor just blew sideways out of my Kimber Tactical Pro II.

Thankfully this was at the range. Using factory Winchester hardball too. Standard load.

Kimbers are great, and accurate as all hell.

And I will never carry one again. Dealing with Kimber support has been a real treat too. Basically they told me to get stuffed without even examining the weapon, and no explanation given.

Weapon was in perfect maintenance before the critical failure. Less than 2000 rounds down the pipe. Hell Tactical Pro II hasn't even been available all that long.

So I have to sell this sorry-ass busted Kimber. Currently using my ancient Glock 19 which has not ever failed in over 10 years, over 10,000 rounds. Just can't see the 9mm being adequate in your standard "Dawn of the Dead" type zombie attack. For humans yes, but them zombies look tough.

I'm thinking Sig 239 DAO. Screw it. I'm ditching .45 for the .40.

I'll still have the .45LC Peacemaker for zombie attacks.

[Geezah]

Too bad the extractor just blew sideways out of my Kimber Tactical Pro II.

Thankfully this was at the range. Using factory Winchester hardball too. Standard load.

Kimbers are great, and accurate as all hell.

And I will never carry one again. Dealing with Kimber support has been a real treat too. Basically they told me to get stuffed without even examining the weapon, and no explanation given.

Weapon was in perfect maintenance before the critical failure. Less than 2000 rounds down the pipe. Hell Tactical Pro II hasn't even been available all that long.

So I have to sell this sorry-ass busted Kimber. Currently using my ancient Glock 19 which has not ever failed in over 10 years, over 10,000 rounds. Just can't see the 9mm being adequate in your standard "Dawn of the Dead" type zombie attack. For humans yes, but them zombies look tough.

I'm thinking Sig 239 DAO. Screw it. I'm ditching .45 for the .40.

I'll still have the .45LC Peacemaker for zombie attacks.

The customer support is reason enough to go SIG, not only do you get a response from SIG guys themsleves over at the SIG forum, but if you phone SIG, the CS is top notch, I've heard that H&Ks CS is not all that?

Once again this is coming from a SIG die hard, but I'm a die hard for a reason ;)

[Initiative]

Too bad the extractor just blew sideways out of my Kimber Tactical Pro II.

Thankfully this was at the range. Using factory Winchester hardball too. Standard load.

Kimbers are great, and accurate as all hell.

And I will never carry one again. Dealing with Kimber support has been a real treat too. Basically they told me to get stuffed without even examining the weapon, and no explanation given.

Weapon was in perfect maintenance before the critical failure. Less than 2000 rounds down the pipe. Hell Tactical Pro II hasn't even been available all that long.

So I have to sell this sorry-ass busted Kimber. Currently using my ancient Glock 19 which has not ever failed in over 10 years, over 10,000 rounds. Just can't see the 9mm being adequate in your standard "Dawn of the Dead" type zombie attack. For humans yes, but them zombies look tough.

I'm thinking Sig 239 DAO. Screw it. I'm ditching .45 for the .40.

I'll still have the .45LC Peacemaker for zombie attacks.

The customer support is reason enough to go SIG, not only do you get a response from SIG guys themsleves over at the SIG forum, but if you phone SIG, the CS is top notch, I've heard that H&Ks CS is not all that?

Once again this is coming from a SIG die hard, but I'm a die hard for a reason ;)

Correct, HK "CS" is sh*t :|

SIGs are great :)

[spyguy]

Geezah et all,

I'm just about to put my order in for a pre-certified SIG 226 and i was wondering if you knew what the difference between "shooters grade" and "collectors grade" was. I assume it speaks of the condition that the SIG is currently in, but if sigs are so reliable and have great CS and are all "certified" would it really matter if one was only shooter grade? Thanks in advance for any help (from anyone. )

SG

also, they say they come with a one year warranty but I've been told SIG will probably take care of you regardless (obviously not for wear and tear ) does that sound consistent with your experience with SIG?


To add input to the thread the 226 just edged out the HK USP compact in my book and will definitely be my second hand gun.

[Geezah]

Geezah et all,

I'm just about to put my order in for a pre-certified SIG 226 and i was wondering if you knew what the difference between "shooters grade" and "collectors grade" was. I assume it speaks of the condition that the SIG is currently in, but if sigs are so reliable and have great CS and are all "certified" would it really matter if one was only shooter grade? Thanks in advance for any help (from anyone. )

SG

also, they say they come with a one year warranty but I've been told SIG will probably take care of you regardless (obviously not for wear and tear ) does that sound consistent with your experience with SIG?


To add input to the thread the 226 just edged out the HK USP compact in my book and will definitely be my second hand gun.

I've not had any personal experience with pre-certified SIGs but from what I have read they those that have purchased them were impressed. Before getting my P226, I purchased a very good condition P226 from KY Imports, the thing sounded like a rattle( I understand that there is a little play in the slide once broken in, but this was just insane) my FFL said he would be scared to shoot it. So I sent it back and while KY Imports(Jelly) ****ed around with my money for a month I made sure and tell as many people as possible to avoid them.
Anyway the SIG they sent was not as advertised, but the ones SIG pre-certify are as they claim.
Here's link from a few that have purchased them, SIG Forum (http://sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=674608412&f=430601935&m=463103941&r=463103941#463103941)

SIG will stand behind their product and guarentee, I know that for a fact. I had a problem with my grips clicking everytime I pulled the trigger, it wasn't a loud clicking it could be felt in my hand, almost as if the joint between the two were rubbing. Anyway I phoned SIG told them what was going on and they sent out replacement grips, but when I took off the grips I scored the screws doing it. So I phoned them again, they were super cool and sent me out 4 replacement screws, this was all done at no extra cost to me.

This sort of thing helps keep a loyal fan base.

[USMC8541]

1911s are great weapons but are far too finiky about ammo and magazines resulting in a realiability issue that I would not be willing to stake my life on for a personal weapon. Great weapon for competition where the most you stand to lose is a few points for a jam though.

Having said that...if you want something that despite the best of everything, will NOT fail you when you need it most, is accurate, easy to handle and maintain...you simply can not do any better than an HK.

SIG is good too but I have had them malfunction on me before where my USP has gulped down over 80,000 rounds, had the barrel changed once and has not failed a single time with the acception of some rounds that had bad powder loads in them which I quickly identified and got rid of.

Should you ever have to pull your pistol and use it when the chips are down...piece of mind is everything and HK wont fail you.

[Initiative]

1911s are great weapons but are far too finiky about ammo and magazines resulting in a realiability issue that I would not be willing to stake my life on for a personal weapon. Great weapon for competition where the most you stand to lose is a few points for a jam though.

Having said that...if you want something that despite the best of everything, will NOT fail you when you need it most, is accurate, easy to handle and maintain...you simply can not do any better than an HK.

SIG is good too but I have had them malfunction on me before where my USP has gulped down over 80,000 rounds, had the barrel changed once and has not failed a single time with the acception of some rounds that had bad powder loads in them which I quickly identified and got rid of.

Should you ever have to pull your pistol and use it when the chips are down...piece of mind is everything and HK wont fail you.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. I have both HK and SIG pistols, but even though I am partial to SIG I recommend a USP for carry. IMHO

[Dude, Seriously]

1911s are great weapons but are far too finiky about ammo and magazines resulting in a realiability issue that I would not be willing to stake my life on for a personal weapon. Great weapon for competition where the most you stand to lose is a few points for a jam though.

Having said that...if you want something that despite the best of everything, will NOT fail you when you need it most, is accurate, easy to handle and maintain...you simply can not do any better than an HK.

SIG is good too but I have had them malfunction on me before where my USP has gulped down over 80,000 rounds, had the barrel changed once and has not failed a single time with the acception of some rounds that had bad powder loads in them which I quickly identified and got rid of.

Should you ever have to pull your pistol and use it when the chips are down...piece of mind is everything and HK wont fail you.

I plan to eventually own both but it will be a couple months after I buy my first pistol when I get another. Also, what caliber is your USP? How is the maintenance? Do you have any experience with the P2000 vs USP?

[TacoDelRio]

Sig.

HK is over rated (EDIT: This is just my opinion, no **** right?). We sell USP Compact .40's like you wouldn't f*cking believe though.

Try a SIG P226-R in .40S&W. You can always get the .357 SIG barrel for it, the magazine for the .40 and the .357 are the same, as the .357 is just a necked down .40 S&W case.

Plus it has a rail. You can put a Surefire X200 on it, or a Surefire X200, or maybe even a Surefire X200!

[Geezah]

SIG make a 1911 clone.

[gaijinsamurai]

I love the 1911 .45, but I have to say, i don't feel comfortable with the fact that it is single action and in order for it to be ready, the owner must carry it "cocked and locked". Especially if it is equipped with a light trigger like my customized Springfield Armory has.

[ibstolidude]

Go to gun shop w/a range and shoot both. It is a load of money, and every person has their own preference. I happen to prefer the Sig in 40. To each his own.

*edit* dude I just say your avatar and location - if you are at FBNC - then what I posted above is easy. There are plenty of locations you can rent range time w/the pistols you are considering.

[Dude, Seriously]

Go to gun shop w/a range and shoot both. It is a load of money, and every person has their own preference. I happen to prefer the Sig in 40. To each his own.

*edit* dude I just say your avatar and location - if you are at FBNC - then what I posted above is easy. There are plenty of locations you can rent range time w/the pistols you are considering.

Yeah, I've been asking folks around here too and everyone pretty much has told me the same thing: Go shoot both and find out what YOU like best.

[Durandal]

Sig 220 in 45 is the way to go......most accurate 45 out of the boxs hands down....and i have owned all sorts of pistols......in my eyes Sig will always be #1....followed by Glock.....and HK third

Euro Trash Pistol Whore.

;)

[Durandal]

Basic rule as mentioned by several others.

Shoot the pistols you are considering, then buy based on YOUR experience.

Half the people that have posted on this thread MAY have shot the firearms the mentioned once or twice if at all and simply regurgitate what they hear.

Get some range time on each pistol and then buy one.

[Group9]

Try shooting both. The H&K has a lot of neat features, like the optional actions. But, there is nothing like the trigger pull of a good Sig.

I will admit that I am biased and I own four Sig pistols, 3 in 9mm and one in .45. :D

[TacoDelRio]

SIG make a 1911 clone.

Those amazingly awesome SIG 1911 "GSR, or "Granite Series Rail" (WTF that means) have had teething problems. SIGARMS over in Exeter has free shipping on any SN below 3,000 because of offset hammers, or so they told us. I've sent 2 back to them with the hammers both offset to the right, hitting the rear of the slide, and one of them had the "firing pin plunger retaining pin, part #44" completely blown to ****. It is that little bowling ball looking circle with two dots on the right side of the slide, as seen in this photo, near the very rear of the slide:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sig_1911.jpg

They are pretty smooth pistols, relatively tight, but eh, why not just get a Caspian-assembled Caspian gun, instead of one made by a German/Swiss company, in New Hampshire. :-*$

Personal experiences: SIG 1911 = No-go.

[Durandal]

SIG make a 1911 clone.

Oh, come on if you want a 1911, you buy a 1911. There is a reason why SiG makes a 1911...they wanted part of the market...aVERY large market...the largest pistol market.

But, a SiG 1911 is simply not a 1911. Its a copy.

Colt, Rock Island, Springfield, Kimber, Wilson, Fulson...those are 1911s

:)

[TacoDelRio]

Rock Island = Armscor? There are a crapload of similar names around the whole "Rock Island Armory" thing.

What about D&L Sports? THey presented Gen. Tommy Franks with a commemorative 1911.

[Mark Sman]

Don't forget Les Baer and Para-Ordnance.

I'm not nocking Kimber either. I just can't carry one anymore. As a target pistol, you betcha.

But I might step up to Les Baer for a target gun.

[Geezah]

SIG make a 1911 clone.

Oh, come on if you want a 1911, you buy a 1911. There is a reason why SiG makes a 1911...they wanted part of the market...aVERY large market...the largest pistol market.

But, a SiG 1911 is simply not a 1911. Its a copy.

Colt, Rock Island, Springfield, Kimber, Wilson, Fulson...those are 1911s

:)

But...but...it's a SIG p-)

[Geezah]

SIG make a 1911 clone.

Those amazingly awesome SIG 1911 "GSR, or "Granite Series Rail" (WTF that means) have had teething problems. SIGARMS over in Exeter has free shipping on any SN below 3,000 because of offset hammers, or so they told us. I've sent 2 back to them with the hammers both offset to the right, hitting the rear of the slide, and one of them had the "firing pin plunger retaining pin, part #44" completely blown to ****. It is that little bowling ball looking circle with two dots on the right side of the slide, as seen in this photo, near the very rear of the slide:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/sig_1911.jpg

They are pretty smooth pistols, relatively tight, but eh, why not just get a Caspian-assembled Caspian gun, instead of one made by a German/Swiss company, in New Hampshire. :-*$

Personal experiences: SIG 1911 = No-go.

That sucks major butt, I wasn't aware that they were having any problems but I never looked into getting one as I like to stick with the same caliber size to save on funds.....9mm.

But I will be getting a SIG Mosquito :D

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

Is the USP in .357 SIG? I've seen some sites say yah, and nah. Anyways, I'm a big fan of HK (MP5, MP5SD, G36, etc) but their kinda pricey, I also like SIG, too, and I see their cheaper. Soooo, I'm caught inbetween a USP ~Compact~ and a SIG P229

[Initiative]

Is the USP in .357 SIG? I've seen some sites say yah, and nah. Anyways, I'm a big fan of HK (MP5, MP5SD, G36, etc) but their kinda pricey, I also like SIG, too, and I see their cheaper. Soooo, I'm caught inbetween a USP ~Compact~ and a SIG P229

The compact is not that good, but I like the normal USP. IMHO

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

Is the USP in .357 SIG? I've seen some sites say yah, and nah. Anyways, I'm a big fan of HK (MP5, MP5SD, G36, etc) but their kinda pricey, I also like SIG, too, and I see their cheaper. Soooo, I'm caught inbetween a USP ~Compact~ and a SIG P229

The compact is not that good, but I like the normal USP. IMHO

really? I held it once, it seemed ok. I need something compact, concealable, etc. What would you recommend in SIG? The P229 looks small 'n cute

[Initiative]

Is the USP in .357 SIG? I've seen some sites say yah, and nah. Anyways, I'm a big fan of HK (MP5, MP5SD, G36, etc) but their kinda pricey, I also like SIG, too, and I see their cheaper. Soooo, I'm caught inbetween a USP ~Compact~ and a SIG P229

The compact is not that good, but I like the normal USP. IMHO

really? I held it once, it seemed ok. I need something compact, concleable, etc. What would you recommend in SIG? The P229 looks small 'n cute

Well for cc you might like the glock g33 (.357 SIG) also. Maybe not, just a recommendation... (It isn’t very cute.)
http://www.glock.com/g26.jpg

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

Spanx for the recommendation, I've never really been a fan of glock, but if it's 357, I'll definitely check/read into it. Also, a friend recommended ~Kahr K9~

[Initiative]

Spanx for the recommendation, I've never really been a fan of glock, but if it's 357, I'll definitely check/read into it. Also, a friend recommended ~Kahr K9~

No!! Not a Kahr. They are devoid of the coolness factor! p-)

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

~lol~ yah, I took a look at it, didn't seem too good. You can usually tell a lot from a design, that was so so-ish

[TacoDelRio]

Sinful,

The HK USP Compact .40 is one of our best selling "Eurotrash" guns. People really enjoy them, and I've heard nothing but good **** about them from my customers. As for shooting? I don't own one, so I have no idea how it really is. Shooting one and owning one are a large bit different.

Anybody ever try out the SIG P226R (Rail) in .40S&W? My personal favorite offering from SIGARMS.

Ryan

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

yep, I keep hearing good 'n somewhat negative things for the USP series, as far as the gun is concerned: price, size, concealment, etc. (mainly from SIG enthusiasts, hehe)

Anyways, I think for NOW, I might go for the SIG P229. (has to be in 357) I still want a USP sooner or later, though :)

[MEGR]

Bah. Too much money for these guns.. I'm just going to get an .22 ruger.

[Hyper]

Love my HK USP9. I'm a lefty, and this gun just fit right and I can operate all controls very easily.....except the safety/control lever. I need variant 2 to get it on the right side of the gun...called HK...no answer, left a message, never heard from 'em. :roll:


Only one extraction failure and it happened in the first 50 rounds. Heard that's fairly common while the springs set in. Not one problem 100's of rounds later.

I got the 9mm because it is so cheap to shoot...compared to a .40-.45.