'Adopt a Sniper' fund-raiser shot down

[pistol]

CHICAGO (*******) -- A Catholic university in Milwaukee, Wisconsin has blocked an attempt by Republican students to raise money for a group called "Adopt a Sniper" that raises money for U.S. sharp-shooters in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The students were selling bracelets bearing the motto "1 Shot 1 Kill No Remorse I Decide".

"Clearly the rhetoric of that organization raised some questions and we had some strong objections as a Jesuit university," Marquette University school spokeswoman Brigid O'Brien said Thursday.

The students, representing a group called College Republicans, originally got permission to set up a table at the student union to raise money for U.S. troops in Iraq.

But they chose to promote a group called Adopt a Sniper, which says on its Web site it supports snipers deployed by the United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The group says it "helps real snipers get the real gear they need to help keep us safe."

The brainchild of a Texas police SWAT officer Adopt a Sniper (www.adoptasniper.org) has raised thousands of dollars in cash and gear to supplement the kit of sharp shooters in U.S. combat platoons.

Among products sold on the site is a $15 coin with the imprinted phrase "Assistance From A Distance."


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/life.sniper.reut/index.html

[Steel21]

Honestly I dont hink Snipers need any more gear or $$$$.

Most of the snipers in units are SPC and SGT, and they have a limitation of what they are authorized to carry and use. Besides, there is a universal load plan consideration. These republican kids are a bit ignorant of nature of urban sniping as well as overall unit METL.

[Zoomie]

Honestly I dont hink Snipers need any more gear or $$$$.

Most of the snipers in units are SPC and SGT, and they have a limitation of what they are authorized to carry and use. Besides, there is a universal load plan consideration. These republican kids are a bit ignorant of nature of urban sniping as well as overall unit METL.
So we should stop sending care packages all together as well?

[American Patriot]

Well, apparently Adoptasniper has helped hundreds of snipers in Iraq by sending them the gear they need so there goes your argument.

[Abolith]

Honestly I dont hink Snipers need any more gear or $$$$.

Most of the snipers in units are SPC and SGT, and they have a limitation of what they are authorized to carry and use. Besides, there is a universal load plan consideration. These republican kids are a bit ignorant of nature of urban sniping as well as overall unit METL.

and are you a sniper deployed in the sandbox?? are you an ex-military veteran who has sniper exp.? are you in any way involved with snipers?
if not then STFU.
I think the the man who runs Adoptasniper knows what is and isn't allowed or needed a bit better than you.

[Jacko]

Steel21, your comments are misplaced. My brother-in-law is a USMC sniper and though he hasn't recieved assistance from the Adopt-A-Sniper program, the program is nonetheless needed. Yes, he has almost 100% of the gear he needs. Or, he had, until the Humvee carrying it was destroyed by an IED. I bought him a new GPS unit alongside my sister and parents, as well as his parents and siblings, have all chipped in to replace what we could. Things change over there quite rapidly.

[USMC8541]

Honestly I dont hink Snipers need any more gear or $$$$.

Most of the snipers in units are SPC and SGT, and they have a limitation of what they are authorized to carry and use. Besides, there is a universal load plan consideration. These republican kids are a bit ignorant of nature of urban sniping as well as overall unit METL.

Ok, sorry for being blunt but you are an idiot. Where the hell did you hear that an E-4 or E-5 had limitations on what he can carry or use? You called "these republican kids" a bit ignorant and yet you come on here and make a comment like that?
Also, where do you get your authority and expertise allowing you to state that we dont need more gear or money? How much time have you spent in a Sniper platoon?
If you would like me to educate you as to why hundreds of LE agencies and private citizens have recognized this need and stepped up to the plate to help out, and to why the funds and equipment are needed..I would be glad to. PM me and I will enlighten you.

God, I think people should have to go through a screening for stupidity before posting here.

[BarkingSquirrel]

Please, post the reasons here. More knowledge is always better.

[USMC8541]

Examples:

Rangefinders:
When you are in an urban area, the need for the exact elevation setting on your scope is more important than anywhere else. With non combatants mixed in with insurgents, the margin for error normally allowed in "regular" combat conditions is unforgiving. The answer is a laser range finder (instead of mil-dot estimation).
Here is the problem. A batallion MAY have 2-3 AN/GVS-10s in its entire inventory. These are issued on a priortity and availability basis. Mind you that Snipers are not the only ones that need these. So in a platoon with 8-10 snipers...the odds of you getting one are very slim. In addition to that, if you DO get one, the military version is not designed or ideal for use in a man-portable operation. It is large, cumbersome and heavy (about 6 pounds and roughly the size of a large dictionary). It takes a special type of battery that also has limited life.
Comercial versions are lighter, easier to use, take standard and more available batteries.

Body armor:
It is extremely difficult to maintain a good, stable shooting position with an interceptor vest on. They are bulky and interfere with the cheek weld and marriage of the weapon to your shoulder pocket. Also they are extremely hot and for a sniper on an unshaded roof in 110 degree weather it can have an extremely adverse effect on his performance.
The answer: low profile, concealable body armor (normally worn by police)

I could list many more examples but by listing just these two, any reasonable person should get the idea.

The kicker in all of this is that units do not have funds to make open purchases of this equipment. Units are funded by budget and that budget is renewed every fiscal year in October. What you get is what you get and all equipment is standard issue among all personel in the unit.

Until DoD and the services themselves find a way to allow for the specialized purchase and order of equipment for specific needs...organizations like Adopt a Sniper are making a hell of a difference.

Specialized jobs have specialized needs and if a unit does not have a fat budget like some SOCOM units...the operators have to make due with what they have. This type of equipment isn't absolutely necessary. Marines have been getting the job done for generations with what they have been given. But if people are willing to step up on thier own and make sure our guys get the best they can get to make thier job easier and maybe even save more lives...they why would anyone challenge that?

[martinexsquaddie]

well at a suppoused christian school flogging flogging bracelets "one shot one kill" will get you into trouble(':lol:')
mind you before the last gulf war I and a mate tried to get the padre to carry a personal weapon as it "was a glorious crusade against the infidel"
result extras cleaning the base church and attending service. news to us there was such a thing as a garrison church(':roll:')

[Steel21]

Wow, what a response.

Now, let me clear some things up. There are 2 types of Marksman/Snipers in an Infantry BN. Most of the "snipers" in Iraq are really marksman. In many units, there are assigned 1 marksman per platoon. Normally these guys are equipped with recondiotioned M14, as it was in my old unit.

Marksman, as i have stated before. Who for all intensive purposes is an designated infantryman with enhanced optics. He is required to move alot. And also you dont want him to stand out too much because in the constant movement, looking too special will get you too much unwanted attention.

The 2nd is an actual Ft Benning trained Sniper. He is usually in the BN's scout platoon. He carries the M40. These are often used in a very "descreet" manner. Often their insertion neccessitates them to be less than visible. But due to the lack of intel that we get, they are used seldomely, partly since commanders like the security of knowing that he has everyone inside the wire.

And for all intensive purposes, I have not seen a "Sniper Platoon". I have seen and trained as well as lead a scout platoon, but I not a "Sniper Platoon".

Alot of units have the RFI thing going on. And so most people get what they could never have imagined a year or so ago. By that I mean MITCH, Wiley-X, Underarmor..... ACU.

Now, I dont know if you know this but a unit has a huge amount of IMPACT credit card budget. Further, their combat zone funds are separate from their usual training budget. Therefore, commanders usually spend da **** outta their state side money when they know they are going over.


Where the hell did you hear that an E-4 or E-5 had limitations on what he can carry or use?

Well, where do I start? HOw about the TACSOP that each unit has. It starts with CSMs and their pet peeves. Then there is uniformity and load plan. If someone gets hurt, where is his 1st aid pouch located? You get these guys different gear, like packs, vests... and things can get outta hand. Also have you considered it from a command perspective?

The sniper performs a role dictated by the commander as he sees fit. And as such, he will allotcate funds should he see it neccessary. To procure items outside of supply system may be neccessary sometimes, but that usually with the agrrement of chain of command. Which at the minimum is the PSG and PL.
Who should have brought it up with the CDR. And if their CDRs are so incompetent as not to recognize their needs, their gost another set of problems.

Also, did you know that units in Iraq are flowing in $$$$$$? Yes, S-1s are driving around with $100,000 so the Shiek can buy enhance their villages. But you come back in a week, and all he's done is bought 100 goats. So at least from what i see, $$$$ is not the problem.

If your marksmand says he can wear anything he wants, then your line PFC would say..... That kind of thing can be localized in a scout platoon. But to the line EM, that can be a bit unfair when the marksman can wear, use anything he wants, and get them for free.

Which brings me to a final point. Most of our casualties in this conflict has been from guys on convoys. To single out a group for free gear is somewhat condescending to the other guys doing their job day and night and perhaps sticking their necks a bit further than your snipers. Is your truck driver doing a lesser job than your sniper? What I mean about the republican kids is that I'd rather see them create an organization like adopt a HUMVEE.

I hope you understand what Im saying.

[USMC8541]

Wow, what a response.

Now, let me clear some things up. There are 2 types of Marksman/Snipers in an Infantry BN. Most of the "snipers" in Iraq are really marksman. In many units, there are assigned 1 marksman per platoon. Normally these guys are equipped with recondiotioned M14, as it was in my old unit.

Marksman, as i have stated before. Who for all intensive purposes is an designated infantryman with enhanced optics. He is required to move alot. And also you dont want him to stand out too much because in the constant movement, looking too special will get you too much unwanted attention.

The 2nd is an actual Ft Benning trained Sniper. He is usually in the BN's scout platoon. He carries the M40. These are often used in a very "descreet" manner. Often their insertion neccessitates them to be less than visible. But due to the lack of intel that we get, they are used seldomely, partly since commanders like the security of knowing that he has everyone inside the wire.

And for all intensive purposes, I have not seen a "Sniper Platoon". I have seen and trained as well as lead a scout platoon, but I not a "Sniper Platoon".

Alot of units have the RFI thing going on. And so most people get what they could never have imagined a year or so ago. By that I mean MITCH, Wiley-X, Underarmor..... ACU.

Now, I dont know if you know this but a unit has a huge amount of IMPACT credit card budget. Further, their combat zone funds are separate from their usual training budget. Therefore, commanders usually spend da **** outta their state side money when they know they are going over.


Where the hell did you hear that an E-4 or E-5 had limitations on what he can carry or use?

Well, where do I start? HOw about the TACSOP that each unit has. It starts with CSMs and their pet peeves. Then there is uniformity and load plan. If someone gets hurt, where is his 1st aid pouch located? You get these guys different gear, like packs, vests... and things can get outta hand. Also have you considered it from a command perspective?

The sniper performs a role dictated by the commander as he sees fit. And as such, he will allotcate funds should he see it neccessary. To procure items outside of supply system may be neccessary sometimes, but that usually with the agrrement of chain of command. Which at the minimum is the PSG and PL.
Who should have brought it up with the CDR. And if their CDRs are so incompetent as not to recognize their needs, their gost another set of problems.

Also, did you know that units in Iraq are flowing in $$$$$$? Yes, S-1s are driving around with $100,000 so the Shiek can buy enhance their villages. But you come back in a week, and all he's done is bought 100 goats. So at least from what i see, $$$$ is not the problem.

If your marksmand says he can wear anything he wants, then your line PFC would say..... That kind of thing can be localized in a scout platoon. But to the line EM, that can be a bit unfair when the marksman can wear, use anything he wants, and get them for free.

Which brings me to a final point. Most of our casualties in this conflict has been from guys on convoys. To single out a group for free gear is somewhat condescending to the other guys doing their job day and night and perhaps sticking their necks a bit further than your snipers. Is your truck driver doing a lesser job than your sniper? What I mean about the republican kids is that I'd rather see them create an organization like adopt a HUMVEE.

I hope you understand what Im saying.

I'm talking about snipers, not wanna-be designated marksmen mis-touted by media articles and photos as snipers. Anyways...here we go..

First of all, Marines have Scout-Sniper platoons attached to every infantry batallion. They are their own platoon.
Secondly, the Army does not use M40s. They use M24s.
Thirdly... dedicated sniper platoons ARE allowed to use whatever the hell they want.
Fourthly (is there such thing?)...are you here on this board...after making statements full of inaccuracies...saying that you know better than the operators on the ground what is and isnt a good idea for them to use, wear or otherwise employ for equipment?
This isnt about a jealous rifleman in a rifle squad seeing a sniper with comerial, high speed gear. Snipers have specialized skills and perform a specialized mission.
I was a regular grunt before I became a sniper and yea, I always thought it was cool that they had neat and unusual gear...but I knew that there was a reason for it.

So dont come on here with your inaccurate information and guesswork and comments about Sergeants Major not liking what his troops wear or use, or jealous troops that dont get the gear and try to support your arguement.

I am speaking from pure experience and first hand knowledge. You are speaking from a purely opinionated and uninformed position as your comments have proven.

This isn't about where you wear your first aid kit or in what pocket you keep your maps and radio freqs. It's about better operational equipment.
Maybe instead of posting here against our guys getting better gear...you should head to your nearest Army base and try to find a sniper there that has an M40.

[Steel21]

Geez, Im not trying to pick a fight. As I remember it, the USMC uses the M40A1. Yeah I got a bit mixed up, been a while since the scout plt days.

Anyway, the units I've been in, I havent heard any gripes for gear from my scouts. And I had a couple E5s under me that was actually school trained. USMC is a whole different ball game.

But trust me when I say the units in Iraq, particularly the army units has quite a bit of $$$$$. Of course sometimes it helps if you know the S-4 or are on good basis with him rofl .

I guess Im on my own here, but I'd like the public to stick to moral support, and wish that the snipers stick to chian of command system. I dunno what the guys are getting from program or how the items are accountable. (i.e. when the tour is over, does the item stay with the unit or does the sniper consider it his personal property?)

[Opening Batsman]

I think this may have been Any Soldier instead of Adopt a Sniper, but the meaning is the same - People ask why the soldiers aren't provided with everything they need to do the job. Well look at it this way, when you get a desk job, doesn't the employer get you everything to do your job? Then why do you buy that desk organiser, that paper clip tray, that memo pad... It is the same thing, although they are not strictly necessary they do make the job a lot easier.
Righto, that is not the exact quote but it is the general idea. It is a good point.

[BlackRain]

Instead of listening to internet wannabe's who think they know what the deal is; here the stories of gratitude from US military snipers for the Adopt a Sniper program here -

http://www.adoptasniper.org/sniperletters.html

I can't believe people are actually arguing against donating supplies to troopers involved in war time operations. Quite pathetic.

[Ichhabe]

'
Adopt a Sniper' fund-raiser shot down

I am just an ignorant foreigner with some average skills in the English language; So forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong. But should it not say SHUT down rather than SHOT down?
And also "Adopt a Sniper' funding shut down"?

As it says now, one tend to belive that a person is gunned down.

[BlackRain]

'
Adopt a Sniper' fund-raiser shot down

I am just an ignorant foreigner with some average skills in the English language; So forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong. But should it not say SHUT down rather than SHOT down?
And also "Adopt a Sniper' funding shut down"?

As it says now, one tend to belive that a person is gunned down.

It is a slang-type of reference. Like:

1) Tom asked Mary out but was "shot down" by her response.

2) Tom asked his boss for a raise but was "shot down".

[Ichhabe]

Really smart to use slang on an international forum... :roll:

[BlackRain]

Really smart to use slang on an international forum... :roll:

Earth to Ichhabe - ******* used the term not us. You are welcome for the translation.


Adopt a Sniper' fund-raiser shot down
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/life.sniper.reut/index.html

[Steel21]

I'm talking about snipers, not wanna-be designated marksmen mis-touted by media articles and photos as snipers. Anyways...here we go..

First of all, Marines have Scout-Sniper platoons attached to every infantry batallion. They are their own platoon.
Secondly, the Army does not use M40s. They use M24s.
Thirdly... dedicated sniper platoons ARE allowed to use whatever the hell they want.
Fourthly (is there such thing?)...are you here on this board...after making statements full of inaccuracies...saying that you know better than the operators on the ground what is and isnt a good idea for them to use, wear or otherwise employ for equipment?
This isnt about a jealous rifleman in a rifle squad seeing a sniper with comerial, high speed gear. Snipers have specialized skills and perform a specialized mission.
I was a regular grunt before I became a sniper and yea, I always thought it was cool that they had neat and unusual gear...but I knew that there was a reason for it.

So dont come on here with your inaccurate information and guesswork and comments about Sergeants Major not liking what his troops wear or use, or jealous troops that dont get the gear and try to support your arguement.

I am speaking from pure experience and first hand knowledge. You are speaking from a purely opinionated and uninformed position as your comments have proven.

This isn't about where you wear your first aid kit or in what pocket you keep your maps and radio freqs. It's about better operational equipment.
Maybe instead of posting here against our guys getting better gear...you should head to your nearest Army base and try to find a sniper there that has an M40.

Well, maybe Im looking at it from a command perspective. Maybe the issue if already solved in the program, but as you know an Army sniper will not likely remain s a sniper his whole career, so what happens to the gear?

All the stuff that everyone gets is from CIF. The other stuff is on the property book. Thus in one way or another, they are all accountaed for, for they belong to the taxpayer.

Now, if the gear is given to the sniper, I imagine they would become personal items, unaccounted for in any property book or CIF initial issue or probably even the platoon property book.

So at the end of his tenure as the sniper, the gear might leave with the soldier/marine, leaveing the unit empty handed.

I have a bud who was a marine scout sniper (think their motto was "Nothing matters, neither do you"), havent talked to him in a while, maybe i should ask his opinion.

Personally, I'd like there to be a barrier between the professional military and the civillian.

Or maybe my legalistic condescending archaic rank&structure mindset is misplaces? :roll:

[Ichhabe]

Really smart to use slang on an international forum... :roll:

Earth to Ichhabe - ******* used the term not us. You are welcome for the translation.


Adopt a Sniper' fund-raiser shot down
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/03/life.sniper.reut/index.html

Then I must say sorry.

Knowing that a news agency used it made it even bader if you aske me.

[USMC8541]

Well, maybe Im looking at it from a command perspective. Maybe the issue if already solved in the program, but as you know an Army sniper will not likely remain s a sniper his whole career, so what happens to the gear?

All the stuff that everyone gets is from CIF. The other stuff is on the property book. Thus in one way or another, they are all accountaed for, for they belong to the taxpayer.

Now, if the gear is given to the sniper, I imagine they would become personal items, unaccounted for in any property book or CIF initial issue or probably even the platoon property book.

So at the end of his tenure as the sniper, the gear might leave with the soldier/marine, leaveing the unit empty handed.

I have a bud who was a marine scout sniper (think their motto was "Nothing matters, neither do you"), havent talked to him in a while, maybe i should ask his opinion.

Personally, I'd like there to be a barrier between the professional military and the civillian.

Or maybe my legalistic condescending archaic rank&structure mindset is misplaces? :roll:

No, it doesnt work that way. We know how hard those items were to obtain and how usefull they are to our trade. When we rotate out, the items are signed over to the new unit. When those items arrive for us, the Chief Scout-Sniper takes responsibility for them and issues them to the team. He then collects them back up and signs them over to the Chief Scout-Sniper of the new platoon in country. The sniper community is very close-knit and we take care of each other. We even turn over items that we spent our own money on if we know the new guys can use it and dont have it.

[Steel21]

My appologies for being ignorant and uninformed. Clearly, I had more of your run of the mill DM in mind.

I hope you understand my theoretical separation between official military channels of supply and those of private civillians, however misdirected and irrational it may be.

The snipers (bless you fools :lol: ) are a very identifiable/sexy beast amongst the polethora of military MOSs jungle. By college kids spondsoring the snipers, there is a bit of "Coolness by association" campus politic jumble in there somewhere. Which I think is a tad bit ingenuous.

It just seem somewhat murky to have a republican group fund snipers, which in itself is a bit of political statement. Political statements are the realms of civillian policy makers. We the professional military should refrain from making political statements, or endoresement of such. I hope you understand my sentiments.





Thanks and take care! :D

[Clarsachier]

Just wait'll there's an 'adopt a Jesuit' campaign in my area. I'll boycott.
That'll show 'em.

;)


Seriously, did they think that a religious order would support 'one shot one
kill' supporters? They'd be hypocrites if they did. Bad planning on the young republicans part.