Downed helicopter

[matgor]

I've seen some pictures of a downed helicopter (BH surveillance model?) in Iraq. Anyone got any more info on that?

What is the standard procedure on downed aircrafts and helicopters? Is there always a CSAR team standing by, close to the action?

I saw the Al Jazeera video clip last night, it was aired here in Sweden for some reason. I was awful seeing those dead bodies and hearing that awful Iraqi "journalist" taunting both soldiers and dead bodies.

[Zoomie]

You're probably referring to the Apache that was downed due to the high concentration of unexpected AAA.
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/03/24/sprj.irq.apache.attack/story.downed.heli.iraqi.tv.jpg

[matgor]

I didn't pay attention. It's of course an Apache chopper I'm talking about. What model? Longbow? It has that large radar on top of it.

Longbow picture.
http://pao.hood.army.mil/21CAV/21cav-photo/ah64d/d17.jpg

[dirk]

it looked more like technical probs, rather than aaa. here in germany it was also on tv and it was pretty detailed, and there was no sign of a hit by anything.

[cut]

http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1134662.jpg

hehe, the guy on the left is the farmer with his ~magic~ rifle which "downed" the apache.

I must say that obviously the iraqi press don't lie!

[yellowking]

What's the bat near the tail rotor for, any idea?

[budanski]

I'm wondering if they'll scramble to either destroy this or prevent the reported Russians and or maybe Chinese in the area from getting to it.

Hope the 7th Calvary gets to this area first before any of that to happen.

[Kitsune]

These helicopter accidents...it beats me why.
But it looks as if the crew could have survived it. Either they are on the run or the Iraqis have another 2 POWs.
In the first case a rescue operation could be under way. During the war on Serbia a US pilot hided for days until he could contact friendly forces and was rescued by marines. So there still is a chances.
If those two have been taken prisoner the chances are not so good. Usually rescue operations to get them out are too risky. The same goes for the 5 american POWs of the maintenance unit. One would have to know exactly where those POWs are... and even then Delta/SeALs could run into a trap. In the movies this is done anyway and it always ends well...but this is harsh reality. So do not expect too much.

[96B]

Im suprised that an AH-64D Longbow got shot down but it appears it just got damaged enough to force a hard landing because it looks very much intact. I am also very very suprised that they did not destroy it, notice how fast they acted to destroy the SOF bird that went down. It is clear the crew was rescued because they havnt found them yet and there have been SAR birds going out on missions they cant talk about but they have all been reported as successful.

I find it very funny they claim to have shot it down with some old rifle, what propaganda.

[yellowking]

Franks confirms two Apache crewmen are MIA: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81964,00.html

[OzMan]

If there are aircraft in the air, there is definitely a CSAR team in the air as well. In the Navy, with carrier operations, the rescue helo is always the first aircraft off the deck; before any plane shoots off the cat. And the Navy has their own dedicated "downed airmen" rescue squad (I don't remember the unit name) like the Air Force Pararescue service. The Army I think has their own stepped-down version of a rescue force, and the Marines will sometimes use MEUs (Scott O'Grady).

[Zoomie]

Well it looks like from this picture that the pilots are on the run. Seeing that they even bothered to interview the guy who allegedly downed the apache, they're making up for not having the pilots. This is what one pilot described what it was really like:


One pilot described the situation as "a hornet's nest," as small arms fire and anti-aircraft fire came from "all sides." Most pilots took at least 15 to 20 rounds in their helicopters.

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/03/24/sprj.irq.apache.attack/story.downed.heli.helments.jpg

[Merik]

What happened was that the strike force basically did a Raid into deep enemy territory.The thing about it is though that if the Apaches went in without top cover then they were screwed to begin with.You cant just send in helicopters to do a deep strike without air support.Also you cant send them with very,very important weapons systems such as the Hellfire because look what happened;it got captured with Hellfires on it.

[Seraphim]

They should have dropped a 2000 pound bomb on these guys around the helo. It just said on the news that Tony Blair said that coalition forces are about 60miles from Baghdad. So Ihope those pilots ran the right way. You would think they would have a rescue beacon or something so they can get extracted fast.

[Fargin]

http://www.vwip.org/images/insignia/1stcavdiv.jpg

http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?sid=3798788&s=53746348&ru=embedded%2Eyahoo%2Ecom&b=6n2t8q4v71t2d3e7f5dcc

Someone told me it was the 1st Air Cavalry insignia, can anyone confirm?

[JiJoMacLE45]

The CSAR flights in the north during the Gulf War were flown out of Incirlik in Turkey so w/o that resource available now, you have to imagine the strain on all types of support flights to those strikes in the north, not just CSAR, but refueling and AWACs coverage as well.

During the Gulf War there were some problems with search and rescue b/c the USAF was requiring so much information about the downed airmen before they would send out their CSAR flights, that by the time they could get the birds in the air, the fliers were already in Iraqi hands. Whether or not that has changed now, remains to be seen. If my memory is right, there were only three successful CSAR missions during the first Gulf War. The Air Force, Navy, and Army all with one each. An Air Force MH-53 went in an pulled out one member of a F-14 flight crew, the other man was captured. A Seahawk and Navy SEALs pulled an F-16 pilot out of the Gulf and an Army MH-60 from the 160th w/ SF onboard grabbed another pilot(F-16 I think).

[Fargin]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1530

[DownTown1]

I'm thinkin after more intel on the area, fast movers will be sent in to destroy the LongBow. :cry:

[hood]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030324/i/1048516603.3623911505.jpg

Well, it looks like it's in very good condition. If the US forces can find and surround it, they can just repair it on the spot and fly it home. Several million dollars saved. It looks like it still had 3 out of 4 hellfires left, and half it's rockets left.

[Zoomie]

Unfortunatly, on the news they report both pilots are captured and are paraded on Iraqi TV.

[crew341]

From the picture it looks like the aircraft did not even have a hard landing. If it did the crew would have blown the emergency windows to exit the aircraft.(the edges of the windows are lined with exlosives) Obviously the helicopter went down because of mechanical problems. And wierd thing I don't understand is those helmets. Those are old gentex helmets that I thought were phased out and they don't even have nvg/hud(heads-up display) mounts on them. Considering that the attack was probably at night that just doesn't make sense. Just some of my thoughts.

[hood]

Well, it looks like they're taking better care of these guys. They don't look harmed like the last time and weren't interrogated.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1084878,00.html

[Lobo]

Spanish TV showed the images of the crew of that Apache. They looked well.

The showed also iraqui people around the Apache, all of them were men and the most of them carrying weapons. The Iraqi reporter (wearing fatigues) interviewed an old man carrying an old Mauser who claimed having downed the Apache. :|
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/images/iraqwar/today3_24a.jpg

[Zoomie]

Is that a Tomahawk I see imbound on the Apache and the Iraqis? rofl :lol:

[MK133]

rofl :lol: woot rofl rofl

You were right!

rofl

[GazB]

Regarding suggestions to frag the helo... I think you should remember who has two pilots in their care... if you want to play it that way so can they.
Only the Iraqis will benefit from that sort of war.

Regarding the suggestion that a farmer with an old mauser brought down the helo... why not. US claims that Afghans with AKs brought down Hinds are no more or less credible.

[hood]

because there's pretty much no signs of bullet marks on it when they show close-up video and photos of it. They said that it was a mechanical problem that brought it down to a hard landing, which is why there's no external damage that we can see.