View Full Version : A Brief History of Human Rights in Iraq
jdbjdb
10-30-2003, 11:13 PM
Iraq has been a police state in the Stalinist model since July 1968, when Saddam Hussein and his collaborators seized power in the name of the Ba'th Party. The state is built on an interlocking framework of internal security organizations, secret intelligence services, Ba'th party security apparatus, with additional layers of military and militia organs designed for internal repression. The principal business of government is domestic repression and aggressive militarism. Thus Iraq devoted 37.9% of its oil revenue to military expenditure in 1975, 75% in 1980, 77% in 1985, and 89% in 1989.
From 1980-1991, the Iraqi regime provoked two wars ruinous to the nation. The first, against Iran, lasted from September 1980 to August 1988. An investigation by the United Nations judged that Iraq was the aggressor. There are no exact figures for casualties, but they are believed to number one million on both sides, including dead and wounded. The Iraqi treasury, which held $35 billion in reserves at the start of the war, was depleted. Iraq emerged from the war with a crippling external debt of $46 billion, with a further $40 billion contributed by Arab states. Iraqis lived the last years of the war in a state of siege, with dwindling resources and sealed off from the world. Cities in the south like Basra were ruined, and Iraq's infrastructure lay in tatters. Meanwhile, all of Iraq's revenue, including heavy borrowing and outright assistance, were steered to the military industry. Its human resources were diverted to the war, while other Arabs and foreign nationals had to be imported to carry on the country's business.
In August 1991 the regime plunged Iraqis into the abyss of a second, far deadlier war. The invasion of Kuwait in August 1991 was kept a secret from even senior military officers. Iraq's unilateral abolition of the state of Kuwait and its annexation as a province of Iraq was accompanied by crimes of war documented by Kuwaitis and Allied forces. Iraqis, who had not yet recovered from the consequences of the war with Iran, witnessed the destruction of their country and more needless deaths. The sanctions regime imposed as a result of the Iraqi leadership's policies, has killed children, reduced Iraqis to the status of paupers, and set back Iraq's development by decades. And because of the regime's policies, Iraq now has an additional war compensation bill of $200 billion.
The history of internal repression is a story of repeated state violence against the Iraqi people, mass murder, execution, torture, extra-judicial detention, rape, forced displacement and deportation. In pursuit of the hegemonic appetite of its leader, the regime forced Iraqis into two wars that killed hundreds of thousand of Iraqis, ruined Iraq's economy, and robbed Iraqi children of their future.
State violence is practiced against any form of real or imagined political opposition or rivalry. Thus some of the first victims of the regime were military officers who had aided the Ba'thist coup of 1968. Non-Ba'thists were purged from state institutions. Fellow Ba'th party members who were viewed as possible future rivals were either removed or liquidated. Elimination of Ba'thists continued throughout the 1970s, and was stepped up on the accession of Saddam Hussein to the presidency in 1979. Finally, the party became a pliant tool in the hands of a single individual.
In 1971 the regime began its campaign of deporting Iraqi citizens to Iran, which was to continue into the 1980s. The campaign gathered additional momentum in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Estimates put the number of people deported at 250,000-300,000, including Arabs, Kurds, and Turkoman, almost all of them Shi'a. Shi'a religious scholars were executed throughout this period.
In 1975, the regime waged its first war against the Kurdish citizens of Iraq, forcing thousands to flee to neighboring countries. In 1987, the regime carried out the notorious "Anfal" campaign, an operation of extermination that killed thousands of Kurds, with 100,000-180,000 more deemed "disappeared". Waves of Kurds fled across Iraq's borders to avoid the pursuit of the Iraqi army.
In 1978, the Iraqi regime turned against the Iraqi Communist Party and carried out a wave of mass executions and detentions against ICP members. ICP sources estimate the number of members killed at 7,000.
In 1988 the regime used chemical weapons against the Kurdish town of Halabja, killing over 5,000 civilians and leaving a legacy of environmental poisoning that affects newborns even today.
In March 1991, immediately following the Gulf war, the Iraqi regime turned its Republican Guard units against citizens who had risen in rebellion against the regime's oppression. Two million Kurds fled across the mountains into Turkey and Iran, as many children and elderly died of exposure and starvation. In the south, the regime's then defense minister boasted that the Republican Guard had killed 300,000 people. Conservative estimates place the number of dead at 30,000.
From 1992-1995, the regime waged a military and environmental campaign against the ancient region of the southern marshes, draining the waters, burning villages, killing and arresting civilian inhabitants. As many as 300,000 marsh Arabs are believed to have been driven away from their homes. Many thousands were forced to flee to Iran, where they live in refugee camps. The regime continues to wage war on the inhabitants of the region surrounding the marshes: villages have been razed, inhabitants have been killed in shelling and men have been jailed.
Since 1992, the Iraqi regime has conducted a campaign of ethnic cleansing against Kurds and Turkomans in the Karkuk province (Ta'mim). Several thousand families have been evicted from their homes, stripped of their identification cards (and their ration cards), lost their property and possessions, and told to leave the area.
Human rights abuses by the state are practiced daily in Iraq, against all sectors of the population indiscriminately. The prisons are overflowing, and the regime periodically conducts "prison-cleaning": mass executions to reduce the population of inmates. Officers and officials are executed regularly for their alleged involvement in conspiracies. Families are thrown out of their homes, stripped of their assets and forcibly deported to other parts of the country.
In 1993, the International Commission of Jurists said that there was "sufficient evidence of the fact that torture has become widespread in Iraqi prisons" and deplored the fact that Iraq "disregards the most important right, namely the right to life." The UN Special *******eur on Human Rights in Iraq said in November 1999 "Extreme and brutal force is threatened and applied without hesitation and with total impunity to control the population" and has frequently expressed the sentiment that the human rights situation inside Iraq is worse than any country since the end of World War II.
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:16 AM
dunno how accurate this all is but i feel like pissing you off becuase your a **** head
Israel Palestine History
The people of Palestine under the Ottoman Empire were united in their hatred for the Turks who in the last century of their rule have oppressed the Palestinian people: Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians, etc. When the British arrived at the gates of Jerusalem, the Palestinians sent delegates representing the four mainstream Palestinian groups: "Jewish, Muslim Arab, Christian Arab, Armenian", handing the keys of Jerusalem over to the British, welcoming them as the rescuers. The tyranny of the Ottoman was unbearable. But of course, the British didn't come to free the Palestinians, but to become their new rulers, and they have done what the Ottomans have done from before them. The Palestinian people of all sects fought together against the British colonial powers. Later on, the British promise of an independent Palestine, was compromised by a hefty deal made between the British and the Zionist movement; to grant the Zionists Palestine as their national territory, in exchange for monetary favors. The Zionist movement aimed to dispose the indigenous Arab population of Palestine & replace it with an all Jewish population. In the early 1900s, Massive numbers of Jewish immigrants moved to Palestine primarily from Europe and Africa. After a lot of land was confiscated by the British authorities & given to the new Jewish immigrants, and after a lot of land was bought (in many cases, stolen) by Jews from Palestinians, The Jewish immigrants called for their own state.
The UN recommended a partition dividing Palestine into an Arab state (Palestine) & a Jewish state (Israel), giving 52% of the land to the Jewish immigrant minority who owned only 30% of the land, & made up 7% of the population. The Palestinians rejected the partition, which gave away a bigger chunk of the land along with all the major water resources to a foreign minority, without the consultation of the Palestinian people & against their right for self determination.
Israel declared its statehood in 1948 which resulted in the first Arab Israeli war. Israel was the victor in the conflict & took control over 78% of Palestine. Massacres by the new State of Israel followed their independence in order to expel the indigenous Arab Palestinian population. Sure enough, thousands of Palestinians were slaughtered, and over 700,000 were driven out of their homes! They currently make the largest portion of the refugee population in the world (Millions of people mostly within Palestine and in neighboring Arab countries). The Zionist movement had this plan of committing ethnic cleansing since 1885. It was better known as a transfer then.
In 1967, Israel attacked Egypt, Syria & Jordan and expanded in all three directions illegally occupying the Sina Desert of Egypt, Golan Height of Syria, & The West Bank & the Gaza Strip (The remaining 22% of Palestine that Israel didn't consume in 1948). The Occupation of these territories is ILLEGAL according to the United Nations and International Law (See UN resolution 242). The Sina was given back to Egypt after the war of 1973 when the peace treaty between Israel & Egypt was signed. The Palestinian & Syrian territories continue to be under illegal military occupation.
In the 80s the Palestinian leadership took the extraordinary step of unilaterally renouncing any right to 78% of historic Palestine. In response, Israel did not agree to follow international law and end the military occupation of the remaining 22%. Instead it continues until today to steal land, illegally build housing units & move its own population on that land. These illegal housing units that are exclusively for Jewish Israelis are known as settlements. Settlements have been recognized by international governments as the main obstacle to finding a solution to the Palestinian Israeli conflict. During the Peace Process, Israel doubled the number of settlements in the occupied territories & continued to abuse & oppress the population living under its brutal military occupation. The practices of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) & Israeli Settlers (with the support of the Israeli government) have been condemned by almost all international human rights organizations including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. These practices have included the deliberate breaking of bones with big rocks of Palestinian demonstrators, the intentional targeting of children by IDF snipers, torturing, and often, executing Palestinian Prisoners, and denying medical care to injured Palestinians.
The latest wave of violence started when Ariel Sharon entered a Muslim Holy Site surrounded by 1000 armed Israeli Soldiers. This intrusion provoked Palestinians praying at the holy site to throw shoes & stones at the heavily armed military force, which retaliated using live ammunition, killing 7 unarmed civilian Palestinians on the spot. This event ignited the second Palestinian uprising (intifada) against occupation. Since the beginning of the second initiated (Sept. 2000) until October 2003, over 2500 (two thousand five hundred) Palestinians & 800 (eight hundred) Israelis have been killed (mostly civilians on both sides). Most of the Palestinian civilian casualties were caused by the oppressive Israeli government & military, while casualties on the Israeli side were caused by ruthless terrorist groups who take advantage of desperate Palestinian youth who've lost all hope to ever live as free people, & convinces them that suicide bombings are the only way out. For more on Suicide bombings & Israeli systematic killing, click on: Suicide Bombings
And the cycle of violence continues....
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:18 AM
http://www.sustain-memphis.org/sub2.jpg
http://www.sustain-memphis.org/abused2.jpg
http://www.sustain-memphis.org/ambulance.jpg
http://www.sustain-memphis.org/Settlers_harass_woman.jpg
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:25 AM
http://hrw.org/press/2003/04/israel042903.htm
Israel: Stop Using Flechettes in Gaza
(Jerusalem, April 29 2003) The Israeli army should immediately stop using U.S.-supplied flechette shells in the Gaza Strip, Human Rights Watch said today. The use of such antipersonnel weapons in densely populated areas makes the risk of civilian casualties intolerably high under international law.
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Related Material
Israeli High Court Ruling 8990, April 27 2003
Palestinian Center for Human Rights - Press Release on Israeli High Court Hearing
April 15, 2003
Israel: Dart Shells Pose Civilian Threat
HRW Press Release, June 16, 2001
Palestinian Center for Human Rights
Physicians for Human Rights - Israel
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“Flechettes may not be banned outright, but they should never be used in areas where there are large numbers of civilians. The Israeli Army doesn’t use them in the West Bank because of potential risks to civilians. It makes no sense to keep using them in Gaza, one of the most densely-populated areas on earth.”
Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa Division of Human Rights Watch
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Human Rights Watch responded to an April 27, 2003, ruling by Israel’s Supreme Court of Justice in a case brought by the Palestinian Center for Human Rights and Physicians for Human Rights - Israel. The court said that it would not intervene in the army’s choice of weapons because use of flechettes was not banned outright in international law.
“Flechettes may not be banned outright, but they should never be used in areas where there are large numbers of civilians,” said Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa Division of Human Rights Watch. “The Israeli Army doesn’t use them in the West Bank because of potential risks to civilians. It makes no sense to keep using them in Gaza, one of the most densely-populated areas on earth.”
Flechettes are razor-sharp 3.75mm darts released from canisters that explode in mid-air and spray thousands of them in an arc some 300 meters long and 90 meters wide. The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) generally fires them in 105 mm tank shells. According to Jane’s Defence Weekly, the IDF is using a modified version of US-supplied M494 105mm APERS-T rounds, acquired in the 1970s.
Their wide “kill radius” renders flechettes particularly deadly. Their use in heavily populated areas contravenes two basic principles of the laws of war. The first is the prohibition against indiscriminate attacks, which means that forces cannot use weapons or mount attacks that do not or cannot distinguish between civilians and military objectives. The second is the requirement to take all feasible precautions to avoid or minimize harm to civilians when choosing method and means of attack.
The Gaza Strip has a population density of some 3,273 persons per square kilometer – eleven times that of the West Bank. Palestinian residential areas, Israeli settlements, and Israeli military installations exist in close proximity. Human Rights Watch, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, B’tselem, and other organizations have documented multiple civilian deaths in Gaza as a result of flechette use.
“Although the IDF says it has guidelines, we don’t know what they are or what happens to those who don’t follow them,” Megally said. “The IDF record on investigating wrongdoing is abysmal. The IDF should stop flechette use in Gaza now.” The Supreme Court accepted the IDF’s statement that its use of flechettes did not deviate from strict but undisclosed internal army guidelines (http://hrw.org/press/2003/04/israelisupremecourt.htm). In fact, three days after flechettes killed three women and wounded three others from the al-Malalha family on June 9, 2001, Israeli army officials confirmed that the shelling, in a populated area between Gaza City and the Netzarim settlement had been a mistake (http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/06/isr0616.htm).
Ratamacue
10-31-2003, 12:25 AM
Way to hijack the thread, Morty.
jdbjdb
10-31-2003, 12:25 AM
Palestinians shouldn't be using an ambulace to mover around weapons and suicide bombers!
Mortimer, Shalom!
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:28 AM
he shouldn't go on about human rights when his own country's HR record is "shabby" to say the least.
Ratamacue
10-31-2003, 12:29 AM
This isn't about Israel though. This is about Iraq. I think everyone can agree that there's too many topics on Israel/Palestine, you don't need to hijack one to make another.
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:32 AM
PFFfftt
Ok then
even so, the intial pretext for invading Iraq was WMDs....there are none so now you guys are jusitfying it by using HR's as an excuse.
just as gay...
Ratamacue
10-31-2003, 12:36 AM
We on't need your approval, dude. If that explanation doesn't satisfy you, send a letter to President Bush urging that he go back in time and undo the invasion.
I think that the intelligence at the time indicating WMD, HR violations, and an overall thorn in the side of the world in power were all good reasons to topple the regime. If you don't think so, that's just too bad.
jdbjdb
10-31-2003, 12:37 AM
I got this info on Iraq from the Human Rights Watch Group's webpage
:petting: and if Saddam wanting to remain a brutal dictator he should have complied with international law, he never complied!
he shouldn't go on about human rights when his own country's HR record is "shabby" to say the least.
If you want to talk about Israeli human rights violations the list won't end.
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:39 AM
sure i would never doubt the fact that HR abuses were taking place.
however the USG motives were wrong and did not have the best interests of the Iraqi ppl in mind.
there are 100's of countries in the same situation as Iraq, but becuase they hold no financial gain for the USg they are not going to do anything.
which is therefor wrong.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg
jdbjdb
10-31-2003, 12:41 AM
Is that Arnold Jackson or Webster?
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:45 AM
he shouldn't go on about human rights when his own country's HR record is "shabby" to say the least.
If you want to talk about Israeli human rights violations the list won't end.
and their leader is acussed of human rights abuses.....AND started the conflict of the last 3 years
Ratamacue
10-31-2003, 12:47 AM
What's the difference really between invading Iraq and invading a country that holds no financial gain for the US? Both have regimes/whatever that are not made up of very nice people. We did that in Afghanistan, did we not? Now why should we invade a not-so-economically-advantagous country when we could invade Iraq and not only topple a cruel regime and free the people, but also gain resources for both our country and our military for future actions in the Middle East? Had we invaded a country that held no economic advantage, would you automatically feel as though our intentions were different?
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:50 AM
Had we invaded a country that held no economic advantage, would you automatically feel as though our intentions were different?
Yes, however its a bit more complicated then that.
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 12:51 AM
Israel: Don’t Outlaw Family Life
(New York, July 28, 2003) Israeli legislators should reject a discriminatory bill being rushed through the Knesset, Human Rights Watch said today. If passed, the bill would bar Palestinians married to Israelis from living with their spouses in Israel, affecting thousands of couples.
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Related Material
Joint letter to the members of the Internal Affairs Committee of the Knesset
Joint Letter, July 27, 2003
Background
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"This bill blatantly discriminates against Israelis of Palestinian origin and their Palestinian spouses. It’s scandalous that the Government has presented this bill – and it’s shocking that the Knesset is rushing it through."
Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa Division of Human Rights Watch
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The proposed “Nationality and Entry into Israel (temporary order)” law prohibits Palestinians from residing with their Israeli spouses in Israel. The law will prevent all newly-married couples from being able to live together where they choose. It will also affect couples who have been married for years, and whose requests for residence permits are still pending.
“This bill blatantly discriminates against Israelis of Palestinian origin and their Palestinian spouses,” said Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa Division of Human Rights Watch. “It’s scandalous that the Government has presented this bill – and it’s shocking that the Knesset is rushing it through. ”
Article (2) of the bill says the minister of the interior “shall not grant” Palestinian residents of the Occupied Territories a permit to reside or stay in Israel, nor grant them citizenship. To date, almost the only Palestinians who have obtained residence permits are those who have married Israeli citizens. The bill does not affect marriages between Israeli citizens and other foreign spouses.
According to Knesset testimony given by Israeli officials on July 18, 16,000 applications for the unification of couples in joint Israeli-Palestinian marriages were approved in the last decade. The vast majority of Israeli citizens who marry Palestinians are themselves of Palestinian origin. The bill will severely impact the family life of Israeli citizens of Palestinian origin, some twenty percent of the Israeli population.
“Israel has chosen to ratify numerous international treaties that forbid discrimination and oblige it to protect family life,” said Megally. “The bill clearly violates these obligations.” Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International wrote a joint letter to Israeli parliamentarian urging them to reject the draft legislation.
The bill will also severely affect Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem, who do not have Israeli citizenship and must live in Jerusalem to keep their residence permits. They will either have to live separately from their spouses, or move to the Occupied Territories - and lose their right to live in Jerusalem.
The bill is due to be discussed by the Knesset Internal Affairs and Environment Committee on Tuesday, July 29, in an effort to pass the bill before the Knesset breaks for summer recess on August 3.
Background
Palestinians have long experienced difficulties in obtaining permits to join their spouses in Israel. Such difficulties have progressively worsened over the years. Some couples who have been married for a decade or more have still not been able to unify their families. These couple are thus forced to live apart, or the Palestinian spouse has to remain in Israel without a permit and be liable to arrest and deportation at any time.
Since the beginning of violence in September 2000, the issuing of residence permits for Palestinian spouses has been effectively frozen. On May 12, 2002, the Israeli cabinet formalized and expanded this policy “in light of the security situation and because of the implication[s] of the immigration and the establishment in Israel of foreigners of Palestinian descent.” (Government Decision no. 1813)
The government subsequently submitted the draft law on Proposed Nationality and Entry into Israel (Temporary Order) Law, 5763 – 2003 to the Knesset on June 4, 2003. The bill passed its first reading in the Knesset on June 18, 2003.
StarvingStudent47
10-31-2003, 12:58 AM
This is the most blatant thread-hijacking I have ever seen. And people say that ISRAELIS are the ones who keep bringing up the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Gimme a break. Shame on you Mortimer, and shame on you One.
In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on track, let me ask this question:
"Humanitarian" groups like Amnesty International and pals are not blind to the abuses of dictators like Saddam Hussein. I remember that before the war, A.I. had perhaps 100 pages of documentation about horrific human rights abuses in Iraq up on their webpage. Everyone knew what was going on. Yet these groups always oppose invasions to remove the leaders who are doing these things. They simultaenously oppose sanctions to try and pressure those dictators out of power. So what do they want? What IS the proper way to respond to abuses like these, in the eyes of far-left "human rights" protestors?
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 01:03 AM
This is the most blatant thread-hijacking I have ever seen. And people say that ISRAELIS are the ones who keep bringing up the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Gimme a break. Shame on you Mortimer, and shame on you One.
In a desperate attempt to get this thread back on track, let me ask this question:
"Humanitarian" groups like Amnesty International and pals are not blind to the abuses of dictators like Saddam Hussein. I remember that before the war, A.I. had perhaps 100 pages of documentation about horrific human rights abuses in Iraq up on their webpage. Everyone knew what was going on. Yet these groups always oppose invasions to remove the leaders who are doing these things. They simultaenously oppose sanctions to try and pressure those dictators out of power. So what do they want? What IS the proper way to respond to abuses like these, in the eyes of far-left "human rights" protestors?
Read the whole thread....
and also the problem NGO's had with the sanctions on Iraq was that they were hurting the people more then the regime
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 01:06 AM
http://www.gatt.org/regime/
The ensuing sanctions led to the deaths of between 200,000 and a million children under 5, depending on source.
In addition, poisoning from U.S. depleted uranium (DU) weapons - banned by the Geneva Convention1 - may have led to hundreds of thousands more Iraqi cancers and deaths; the 80,000 cases of "Gulf War syndrome" among U.S. veterans may also be due to DU exposure. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
In the 2003 Iraq War, the U.S. once again used massive amounts of DU in its weapons. Iraqi death counts are unknown or unpublicized.
StarvingStudent47
10-31-2003, 01:15 AM
No one would have starved in Iraq if Saddam hadn't spent the country's entire budget on his dozens of palaces. Do you have any idea how much grain you can buy for the price of one real marble toilet? No matter how much money and aid that country got, people were gonna starve if that tyrant was in power.
By the way, we used depleted uranium in the Balkans too. I don't recall the same elevated cancer rate claims following the war in Kosovo. The high cancer rates in Iraq could easily be explained by the smoke of burning oil wells (Saddam's fault), or his use and storage of biochem weapons (Saddam's fault, and even UN inspectors were finding WMDs in Iraq until they were evicted in 1999), or perhaps just poor water and food quality standards (Saddam's fault).
Gulf War Syndrome has been pretty convincingly shown to be from drugs used to protect against biochem weapons, not from DU. Many of the people who got Gulf War Syndrome were nowhere near the fighting. And remember, we used DU in the Balkans, and there's no "Balkans War Syndrome." But we didn't use the anti-biochem drugs there.
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 01:18 AM
that is the lamest argument ever.....you just pulled that out of your arse didn't you? :bash:
Ratamacue
10-31-2003, 01:22 AM
Strong response there Mort. You stopped him dead in his tracks.
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 01:25 AM
*stops dead in my tracks*
argh you got me!
Ratamacue
10-31-2003, 01:27 AM
I think you misunderstood. I was saying that YOU (Mortimer) stopped HIM (StarvingStudent47) dead in HIS (StarvingStudent47's) tracks.
Or maybe I misunderstood your post. Or maybe we misunderstood each other's posts. Or maybe I'm thinking too much.
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 01:33 AM
lol
no my post ment that my comments about stopping student in his tracks...stopped me in my tracks
jdbjdb
10-31-2003, 01:33 AM
About the picture of the red cresent ambulance: people see the bullet holes and just asume that Israelis fired at it, it was hamas who fired at is and then turned around and said " hey look Israel is shooting at ambulances."
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 01:40 AM
shut up
Vance
10-31-2003, 01:55 AM
....
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 02:00 AM
well....thats his excuse for everything....
btw i think vance is the devil! 666 posts!
martinexsquaddie
10-31-2003, 04:19 AM
The sanctions did'nt work yet taking them off would have been worse as it would have allowed Saddam to rearm. Invading to remove a tyrant is not without cost either. AI and the like would have liked saddam in court to face charges realisticly that was never going to happen. But when war is the answer somebodys aske the wrong question :(
Mortimer
10-31-2003, 09:25 PM
Saddam at the ICC?? unlikely, the Americans would never let him go there or Osama....they'd raise to many questions for the international community.
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