Arctic Main Battle Rifle

[TacoDelRio]

Howdy guys

I'm hopefully about to get myself a nice Springfield Armory M1A in a little bit. It is the most "combat effective" rifle someone can buy in this state (People's Republik of Kommiefornia). I remember reading and seeing some crap on how the M14 was supposed to be the weapon of choice for units operating in very cold spots, such at the Arctic Warfare Training dudes.

Anyone got any personal experience with whether or not M14's/M1A's are very good in those climates? I would imagine that the optional stainless steel barrel would assist in corrosions resistance, which is a big thing. It will be painted in a desert scheme with Bowflage.

Anyway, the whole thing is I'm just curious if anyone has any feedback as to whether this rifle is finicky about really freakin cold environments, or whether it's great.

Thanks for any input.

-Ryan

[TacoDelRio]

Jesus tapdancing Christ. Does nobody know of these trials?

[gaijinsamurai]

Have you considered getting a synthetic stock, instead of wood? That might be more suitable for extreme cold weather conditions.

[TacoDelRio]

Here is what I'd get:

SA M1A Loaded
.308 (obviously)
Synthetic stock
Stainless Steel medium-heavy contour barrel

Sling is either an M1907 leather sling, or more likely, some other crap I can dig up probably from Blackhawk.

My wood stocks froze, thawed, froze again, expanded, and split. My other non stainless steel parts turned bright red and orange, and the snow actually froze into a piece of rust about 1mm high. No go.

[Apogee]

We had M4s up in Alaska. Our sniper section had the M14 varient sniper rifle that the Army is currently using.

[TacoDelRio]

The M14 DMR? Did they adress any problems such as frozen operationg rods and pistons?

[MolliG]

I remember reading and seeing some crap on how the M14 was supposed to be the weapon of choice for units operating in very cold spots, such at the Arctic Warfare Training dudes.

Calibre?


East v. West The Balance Of Military Power (1981) ISBN 0 86101 100 7

Is NATO Surrendering an Advantage?

On the Northern and Southern flanks of NATO there is much mountainous terrain unsuitable to mechanized operations and where accurate, long-distance marksmanship could still have a major influence. Until now, at least, the 5.56mm round has not had the long-range reliability and hitting power necessary for such a role. If all of the NATO infantry, including US Marine and NG divisions, is to be mechanized and continue with 5.56mm rifles and eventually a 5.56mm LMG, NATO may be surrendering an important advantage over an all-mechanized and increasingly roadbound Warsaw Pact infantry. Some re-reading of the 1940 Winter War in Finland may be in order...

:)

[Werewolf01]

The M14 works well in ECW environments. Since you live in Kommiefornia, I am assuming you cannot buy an HK91 or a AK/Valmet, which are both excellent in the ECW environment as well. The M14 would actually be my second choice behind the HK91. If you are ever in and extreme ECW (a polar circle) which I have personally never been in, I have been advised to amke sure the weapon is completely free of CLP. I hear that the Ruaains make a winter lubricant made out of sunflower oil, but I do not know what the lowest operating temp is.

[Jippo]

Forget oil, esp vegetable oils. :) If it really gets cold, one must use graphite as lubricant. If there isn't anything like that around, wipe the weapon clean of any and all oil and shoot it dry.


-jippo

[ardy]

I remember reading and seeing some crap on how the M14 was supposed to be the weapon of choice for units operating in very cold spots, such at the Arctic Warfare Training dudes.

Calibre?


East v. West The Balance Of Military Power (1981) ISBN 0 86101 100 7

Is NATO Surrendering an Advantage?

On the Northern and Southern flanks of NATO there is much mountainous terrain unsuitable to mechanized operations and where accurate, long-distance marksmanship could still have a major influence. Until now, at least, the 5.56mm round has not had the long-range reliability and hitting power necessary for such a role. If all of the NATO infantry, including US Marine and NG divisions, is to be mechanized and continue with 5.56mm rifles and eventually a 5.56mm LMG, NATO may be surrendering an important advantage over an all-mechanized and increasingly roadbound Warsaw Pact infantry. Some re-reading of the 1940 Winter War in Finland may be in order...

:)All the northern NATO members use 7.62mm weapons. Or at least used to, we finally figured out that weapons in 5.56 are better in near all relevant aspects. For cold weather you'll want something with a "violent" action like a G3 or AK series. When we(Norway) tested the M14 then it didn't even last through the initial testing phase.

Forget oil, esp vegetable oils. If it really gets cold, one must use graphite as lubricant. If there isn't anything like that around, wipe the weapon clean of any and all oil and shoot it dry.Bull****. Mix the oil out with kerosene(one part kerosene, two parts oil) and it will work. Never been in tempratures where it hasn't worked with the G3 or MG3.

[TacoDelRio]

For ECW crap, I don't use lubricants at all really. Last time I did, a shotshell froze in the chamber of my 870. **** leaks and expands.

Mollig: Caliber is .308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) using 147gr FMJ-BT's, with SP/HP's for critters. :-*$

Sounds good. Only gripe I have is the trigger guard. They have that M1 Garand winter trigger, but I think I'll have to see if I can't get a larger one machined out for it.

Anyone have any horrible experience with optics in very cold weather? I usually stick to iron sights, mostly because of the fact of batteries dying, but really more for the fact that I'm a poor son of a bitch.

Thanks for the input, guys!

[TacoDelRio]

Ardy, thanks for your input. Problem being that I cnaot get any HK-type rifle or clone thereof. i'm pretty limited in what I can get in Kommiefornia.

What is the freezing temp. of kerosene?

[ardy]

Ardy, thanks for your input. Problem being that I cnaot get any HK-type rifle or clone thereof. i'm pretty limited in what I can get in Kommiefornia.

What is the freezing temp. of kerosene?Not sure, something like minus 50 to 60 degrees celsius. It'll do in most enviroments.

[TacoDelRio]

Hehe, that's more than fine. Coldest I get to work in is probably about 0 degrees fahrenheit, before wind chill. It's the snow and ice that causes problems, when you go ****e and crap.

[ardy]

True that, but if you have a bottle with the oil+kerosene mix with you then you can pour a bit into the action before you fire and the ice and snow will melt away. This wasn't necessary with the G3, but the MG3 has a nasty tendency to get a lot of snow into the feed tray..

Forgot to add, optics are hellish to keep useable, fair enough, I haven't used them that much. The iron sights also needs some attention to keep working, especially with diopter sights, but it's easier to use than optics at least. To clear the diopters you just use a bit of the kerosene+oil mix mentioned above.

[TacoDelRio]

I sometimes just use a mechanical pencil to remove anything from diopter sights. Just poke it out while it isn't too frozen.

Another way to unfreeze your rifle is to put it in your sleeping bag after you ate alot of mexican food or chili.

[Jippo]

Forget oil, esp vegetable oils. If it really gets cold, one must use graphite as lubricant. If there isn't anything like that around, wipe the weapon clean of any and all oil and shoot it dry.Bull****. Mix the oil out with kerosene(one part kerosene, two parts oil) and it will work. Never been in tempratures where it hasn't worked with the G3 or MG3.

:)

Not bs. :)

You can take your argument to Finnish army. I have used kerosine and diesel for cleaning weapon parts, and they work in that. When you are going to shoot in winter you clean oil from the weapon. That is it.


-jippo

[Zero The Hero]

Kerosene or lamp oil in the action works fine and protects the parts from corrosion. More importantly though, keep your weapon outside of the tent, and do not warm it. Moisture tends to condense into the working parts and freeze when you take it outside.
0 Fahrenheit isn't exactly extreme cold weather by the way...

[TacoDelRio]

Zero,

Exactly. Cool thing is though that our shelters don't provide any shelter! Hehehe. Temp is the same, just less wind. Always keep one weapon indoors though.

[usm2b]

Are you invading Russia from the Alaskan Border??????? woot

[TacoDelRio]

That I am. :P

[TacoDelRio]

Sorry (double post)

[marktigger]

interesting the Norwegians used G3's the Sweds G3's and AK4 and the Finns an AK variant all of whom are experts in that type of warfare. M14 never seemed to figure

[Oddbod]

As an alternative, have a look at the FN-FAL or variants thereof.
DSA produce a couple of Kaliban legal models.
Fit an FN with a stripper clip top cover & charging the magazine is pretty rapid - especially using 10 round stripper clips.

[TacoDelRio]

Oddbod,

That would be fine. Entreprise is a short walk from my house, they make some FN FAL Cali-legal models.

HOWEVER...

The only advantage I've ever felt with a FAL is ergonomics. It has a pistol grip. In CA, you can't put a pistol grip stock on an M14 and still have a detatchable mag. AND the FAL has cheaper magazines, which doesn't matter because this rifle doesn't accept detatchable mags, and you can only get "Clinton Mag's" here.

That, and I can't get a CaliFAL (new term!) for cheap! Plus the M1A is more accurate, dependant upon which variant.

Ryan