Of Course The Death Penalty Deters!

[Geezah]

http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/images/deathpenaltygraph2.jpg

Some question whether the death penalty is a deterrent.

How can it not be !

Almost no one wants to die. Guilty murderers do everything to avoid being executed. They appeal their cases endlessly, accept plea bargains for life in prison.

Is there any reason to believe the death penalty deters murders?

Just look at the facts.

Before 1963, most states had capital punishment and used it. Executions tracked the murder rate fairly consistently. By the late 1950's, murders were declining and executions were rare, but focused public attention on particularly heinous murders.

By the early 1960's, however, liberal criminal justice policy-makers began to argue that, because murder rates were so low, the death penalty was no longer needed. Executions ground to a halt until the Supreme Court abolished them altogether in 1972.

Simultaneously, murders skyrocketed. In 1973, they reached their 1933 peak, and hit an all-time high in 1980. Not until executions of these murderers resumed in earnest after 1991, did the murder rates fall rapidly to the 1960's level.

Today almost half of all homicides are committed by strangers to the victim, and most of those are committed during another crime.

These zealots are always ready to accept the word of a killer. "It was just an accident," they say, or "we really didn’t mean to shoot the guy, we were just trying to rob him," and apologists believe them and argue that it is unfair to execute some unfortunate sole for such a "tragic mistake."

Yes, these naive elitists are very good at this type of thinking. Just don’t confuse them with the facts or history.

Source: Opinion Journal, The Wall Street Journal Editorial Page, June 21, 2002.

Link (http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/death_penalty_debate.htm)

[limey]

I noticed - between the years 1935 and 1950 - there were more executions, than murders !!!

Why is this ?

Did they realise - 'damn - we just hung the wrong guy', before hanging the next person they suspected ?

rofl

[Thom]

I noticed - between the years 1935 and 1950 - there were more executions, than murders !!!

Why is this ?

Did they realise - 'damn - we just hung the wrong guy', before hanging the next person they suspected ?

rofl

haha wtf?

i've often wondered what'd happen to crime if you introduced insanely harsh punishment, i.e. anything over robbery = death. and robbery say would get ya arm chopped off (maybe the arabs have got it right :) ) heh.

probably a result of me being insanely pissed off sometimes at the lack of any form of proper punishment in this country, and the fact the law seems to cater for the criminal rather than the victim.


edit: oops didn't see the small print :P

[Virus]

Try looking at the graph and then reading the article too limey :p Instead of posting a dumbass reply. People who are on death row are usually on there quite awhile anyways, plenty of time to prove oneself innocent.. But then hey, they're all "innocent," aren't they lol.

[limey]

Try looking at the graph and then reading the article too limey :p Instead of posting a dumbass reply. People who are on death row are usually on there quite awhile anyways, plenty of time to prove oneself innocent.. But then hey, they're all "innocent," aren't they lol.

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.

Whats up - is your head too far up your arse ?

[Geezah]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

[limey]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

[Kitsune]

Some question whether the death penalty is a deterrent.

How can it not be !


The explanation why it is not goes like this:

A criminal commits a crime only because he thinks that he will not be caught. (For those who commit crimes in a fit of rage can be said that they do not think at all...so they are not deterred by any punishment).
Think about it: How many criminals are, when trying to decide wether they should commit a murder, thinking: "Well, a lifetime in prison, thats alright, I'll risk it. If I would be executed...I would not do it, of course."
How many?
The best deterrent is a effective working police. If a criminal knows that he will be caught with a likelihood of 99%, even if he has only to expect 15 years in prison thereafter, that has a bigger chance of preventing him from commiting the crime than some ineffective system where he, in the unlikely event that he is caught, will be drawn and quartered.

[Geezah]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

[BarkingSquirrel]

^ I second that. Well, the special part atleast.

[sawdusty]

The article left out the scarcity of second offenders with a death penalty in place. If your dead its rather difficult to commit a crime of any nature.

[oldsoak]

Is the death penalty the sign of a societies tolerance to murder ? By that I mean does a society consider a murder sufficiently abhorrent to demand the ultimate penalty ( or at least imprisonment for life ) . If a society assumes that taking a life incurs little punishment, what are the chances that the attitude permeates into the minds of the criminally inclined ?

[BarkingSquirrel]

It's the sign of a society who's willing to hold people accountable for what they do. Rather than slapping them on the wrist, telling them "I'd call you a bad boy but we don't want to mentally scar you" subsequently apologizing for slapping the wrist and turning them loose.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Murders per 66.000 people? What's wrong with per 100.000 people, like everywhere else?

Sociologists (or at least a lot of them) would say that social factors weights most. Note that the steep drop in murders coincide with the unprecedented US economic boom of the nineties.

[Geezah]

Murders per 66.000 people? What's wrong with per 100.000 people, like everywhere else?

What does that mean the information supplied is no good?


Sociologists (or at least a lot of them) would say that social factors weights most. Note that the steep drop in murders coincide with the unprecedented US economic boom of the nineties.

Actually it's the opposite way around, there was a steep drop in executions in the 90s as the numbers of murders rose.

[Para]

In Britain when the death penalty was in force you could be hung for being a member of a gang that killed some one. There was a time when the crooks would check each other to make sure that no one was carrying a weapon on a robbery fully knowning that if any one got killed they would all get the six oclock drop. If you where involved in a fight and some one got killed even if you did not use a weapon, it was manslaughter and you got 10 years hard labour no if and buts, and it did not matter if you had started it or not. Hit a Policeman while he was on duty and it was almost as bad, they had the full protection of the law. I have seen a Policeman walk up to toughest looking charcter and place his hand on his shoulder and tell him he was under arrest and that was that, they would walk back to the station together without the use of handcuffs.

[Geezah]

In Britain when the death penalty was in force you could be hung for being a member of a gang that killed some one. There was a time when the crooks would check each other to make sure that no one was carrying a weapon on a robbery fully knowning that if any one got killed they would all get the six oclock drop. If you where involved in a fight and some one got killed even if you did not use a weapon, it was manslaughter and you got 10 years hard labour no if and buts, and it did not matter if you had started it or not. Hit a Policeman while he was on duty and it was almost as bad, they had the full protection of the law. I have seen a Policeman walk up to toughest looking charcter and place his hand on his shoulder and tell him he was under arrest and that was that, they would walk back to the station together without the use of handcuffs.

Now that makes sense to me.

When I ued to go ice skating at Richmond Ice Rink almost 20yrs ago, there were a couple of characters there that used to come down from the Clapham area, One of the guys toild me how he had beaten up a Policeman and stole his hat and radio(as a trophy) and it's gradually got worse over the years.
As I'm a law abiding citizen that has never been convicted of anything, I would have no problem going back to days you talk about Para.

[oldsoak]

Dont like the idea of the death penalty on the grounds that some convictions are pretty shaky. I do support the idea of life without parole in its place. That way if a mistake is made, you can at least let the innocent out.

[limey]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

I need to be special, to hang around with you guys !!! But at least I only need to lower myself for an hour each night.

;)

[Geezah]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

I need to be special, to hang around with you guys !!! But at least I only need to lower myself for an hour each night.

;)

Each night over here but I would say every morning where you are, I'd just love to know where abouts in Oz you are.

[BarkingSquirrel]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

I need to be special, to hang around with you guys !!! But at least I only need to lower myself for an hour each night.

;)

Each night over here but I would say every morning where you are, I'd just love to know where abouts in Oz you are.C'mon Geezah, of all people, I'd expect you to be the one to do the research :P

Name
Undisclosed(Though I believe his 1st is Daren)
Age
35
Gender
Male
Marital Status
Single
Location
Lancs, England, United Kingdom
Occupation
A monkey's slave
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/00.jpg
Looks like a butch lesbo to me.

[Geezah]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

I need to be special, to hang around with you guys !!! But at least I only need to lower myself for an hour each night.

;)

Each night over here but I would say every morning where you are, I'd just love to know where abouts in Oz you are.C'mon Geezah, of all people, I'd expect you to be the one to do the research :P

Name
Undisclosed(Though I believe his 1st is Daren)
Age
35
Gender
Male
Marital Status
Single
Location
Lancs, England, United Kingdom
Occupation
A monkey's slave
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/00.jpg
Looks like a butch lesbo to me.

Damn, where'd you get all that from, while I mightbe ok at looking up gun control stuff, I'd be interested as to how you found all that?

P.S. I did check his profile but I wasn't sure about his first name being Darren due to the fact it's a hotmail account.

Wow, he's a year older than me, I wonder if he used to go Raving?

[SHAM]

Countries where the death penalty is permitted


Death Penalty Permitted
Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Burundi
Cameroon
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Ghana
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Malawi
Malaysia
Mongolia
Morocco
Myanmar
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Philippines
Qatar
Rwanda
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Somalia
Sudan
Swaziland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States of America
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe



Countries where the death penalty is outlawed


Andorra (1990)
Angola (1992)
Australia (1984)
Austria (1950)
Azerbaijan (1998)
Belgium (1996)
Bermuda (1999)
Bosnia-Herzegovina (1997)
Bulgaria (1998)
Cambodia (1989)
Canada (1976)
Cape Verde (1981)
Colombia (1910)
Costa Rica (1877)
Côte d'Ivoire (2000)
Croatia (1990)
Cyprus (1983)
Czech Republic (1990)
Denmark (1933)
Djibouti (1995)
Dominican Republic (1966)
East Timor (1999)
Ecuador (1906)
Estonia (1998)
Finland (1949)
France (1981)
Georgia (1997)
Germany (1987)
Guinea-Bissau (1993)
Haiti (1987)
Honduras (1956)
Hungary (1990)
Iceland (1928)
Ireland (1990)
Italy (1947)
Kiribati (1979)
Liechtenstein (1987)
Lithuania (1998)
Luxembourg (1979)
Macedonia (1991)
Malta (1971)
Marshall Islands (1986)
Mauritius (1995)
Micronesia (1986)
Moldova (1995)
Monaco (1962)
Mozambique (1990)
Namibia (1990)
Nepal (1990)
Netherlands (1870)
New Zealand (1961)
Nicaragua (1979)
Norway (1905)
Palau (n.a.)
Panama (1903)
Paraguay (1992)
Poland (1997)
Portugal (1867)
Romania (1989)
Samoa (2004)
San Marino (1848)
São Tomé and Príncipe (1990)
Serbia and Montenegro (2002)
Seychelles (1993)
Slovak Republic (1990)
Slovenia (1989)
Solomon Islands (1966)
South Africa (1995)
Spain (1978)
Sweden (1921)
Switzerland (1942)
Turkmenistan (1999)
Tuvalu (1978)
Ukraine (1999)
United Kingdom (1973)
Uruguay (1907)
Vanuatu (1980)
Vatican City State (1969)
Venezuela (1863


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

[SHAM]

Deterrence: U.S. Murder Rate Greatly Exceeds European Non-Death Penalty Nations
Data released by the British Home Office reveals that the United States, which retains the death penalty, has a murder rate that is more than three times that of many of its European allies that have banned capital punishment. (New York Times, May 11, 2002). The data challenges the argument that the death penalty is a deterrent to murder. There are more than 110 nations around the world that have banned the death penalty in law or practice. See also, International Developments.
http://img186.exs.cx/img186/3185/euusdeter0gx.gif

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167


States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates
A new survey by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates than states with the death penalty. The Times reports that ten of the twelve states without the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above. During the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48% - 101% higher than in states without the death penalty. "I think Michigan made a wise decision 150 years ago," said the state's governor, John Engler, a Republican, referring to the state's abolition of the death penalty in 1846. "We're pretty proud of the fact that we don't have the death penalty." (New York Times, 9/22/00

http://img186.exs.cx/img186/1025/murderrategraph0xz.gif

[Geezah]

Deterrence: U.S. Murder Rate Greatly Exceeds European Non-Death Penalty Nations
Data released by the British Home Office reveals that the United States, which retains the death penalty, has a murder rate that is more than three times that of many of its European allies that have banned capital punishment. (New York Times, May 11, 2002). The data challenges the argument that the death penalty is a deterrent to murder. There are more than 110 nations around the world that have banned the death penalty in law or practice. See also, International Developments.
http://img186.exs.cx/img186/3185/euusdeter0gx.gif

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=12&did=167


States Without the Death Penalty Have Better Record on Homicide Rates
A new survey by the New York Times found that states without the death penalty have lower homicide rates than states with the death penalty. The Times reports that ten of the twelve states without the death penalty have homicide rates below the national average, whereas half of the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above. During the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48% - 101% higher than in states without the death penalty. "I think Michigan made a wise decision 150 years ago," said the state's governor, John Engler, a Republican, referring to the state's abolition of the death penalty in 1846. "We're pretty proud of the fact that we don't have the death penalty." (New York Times, 9/22/00

http://img186.exs.cx/img186/1025/murderrategraph0xz.gif

We can find pros and cons to the death penalty all day, but if we do not remove the bad people from this planet, what do you suggest we do to those that have proven they cannot play nice with others?

[SHAM]

Put them in jail, life without parole. Chosing who lives and who dies makes us no better than the killers.

[walford]

It doesn't matter if the death penalty deters -- although it does tend to deter recidivism on the part of the condemned. People who commit heinous crimes don't think of the consequences to themselves [much less others], so deterrence is a false issue.

The primary purpose of incarceration is to protect the public from dangerous individuals, not to reform or deter -- although if there is some way to reform them, that would be a benefit.

Insofar as execution is concerned, it quite simply is the appropriate punishment in certain cases.

[GazB]

A criminal commits a crime only because he thinks that he will not be caught. (For those who commit crimes in a fit of rage can be said that they do not think at all...so they are not deterred by any punishment).
Think about it: How many criminals are, when trying to decide wether they should commit a murder, thinking: "Well, a lifetime in prison, thats alright, I'll risk it. If I would be executed...I would not do it, of course."
How many?
The best deterrent is a effective working police. If a criminal knows that he will be caught with a likelihood of 99%, even if he has only to expect 15 years in prison thereafter, that has a bigger chance of preventing him from commiting the crime than some ineffective system where he, in the unlikely event that he is caught, will be drawn and quartered.

Hang on. Have you just said that because some crimes are heat of passion no time to think actions that no punnishments will deter and then you say the one thing that will deter crime is a good police force with a good crime clearance rate?

I agree that the DP is not a deterrent but I also agree with Walford... the DP certainly stops reoffending. Look at the number of murders commited by people on parole or on bail for another crime. A lot of murderers are actually not very nice people who have long histories of violence.

[Geezah]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

I need to be special, to hang around with you guys !!! But at least I only need to lower myself for an hour each night.

;)

Each night over here but I would say every morning where you are, I'd just love to know where abouts in Oz you are.C'mon Geezah, of all people, I'd expect you to be the one to do the research :P

Name
Undisclosed(Though I believe his 1st is Daren)
Age
35
Gender
Male
Marital Status
Single
Location
Lancs, England, United Kingdom
Occupation
A monkey's slave
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/00.jpg
Looks like a butch lesbo to me.

Damn, where'd you get all that from, while I mightbe ok at looking up gun control stuff, I'd be interested as to how you found all that?

P.S. I did check his profile but I wasn't sure about his first name being Darren due to the fact it's a hotmail account.

Wow, he's a year older than me, I wonder if he used to go Raving?

I still get over all the info you supplied BarkingSquirrel, I give you one Camden Clap for your efforts and must thank you for my new avatar p-)

I wonder....seeing as he is located in Lancs, if he's ever been to London?

[martinexsquaddie]

hav'nt there been a fair few dodgy convictions of people who have ended up on death row in the states? later on being seen as innocent ?

[walford]

hav'nt there been a fair few dodgy convictions of people who have ended up on death row in the states? later on being seen as innocent ?And how many were executed? There are no summary executions in the US, so the process has succeeded in correcting these errors.

[BarkingSquirrel]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

I need to be special, to hang around with you guys !!! But at least I only need to lower myself for an hour each night.



;)

Each night over here but I would say every morning where you are, I'd just love to know where abouts in Oz you are.C'mon Geezah, of all people, I'd expect you to be the one to do the research :P

Name
Undisclosed(Though I believe his 1st is Daren)
Age
35
Gender
Male
Marital Status
Single
Location
Lancs, England, United Kingdom
Occupation
A monkey's slave
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/00.jpg
Looks like a butch lesbo to me.

Damn, where'd you get all that from, while I mightbe ok at looking up gun control stuff, I'd be interested as to how you found all that?

P.S. I did check his profile but I wasn't sure about his first name being Darren due to the fact it's a hotmail account.

Wow, he's a year older than me, I wonder if he used to go Raving?

I still get over all the info you supplied BarkingSquirrel, I give you one Camden Clap for your efforts and must thank you for my new avatar p-)

I wonder....seeing as he is located in Lancs, if he's ever been to London?Sorry for the late reply, long day with some sleeping thrown in.

It was as simple as taking his email address and adding him to my MSN messenger list then having a look at his profile. Simplicity is genius :) I bet he's real happy now :P Kinda scary though ain't it - he's 13 years older than me, yet acts 14 years younger.

I still say he looks like a butch lesbo.

[<Gypsum Fantastic>]

In Britain when the death penalty was in force you could be hung for being a member of a gang that killed some one. There was a time when the crooks would check each other to make sure that no one was carrying a weapon on a robbery fully knowning that if any one got killed they would all get the six oclock drop. If you where involved in a fight and some one got killed even if you did not use a weapon, it was manslaughter and you got 10 years hard labour no if and buts, and it did not matter if you had started it or not. Hit a Policeman while he was on duty and it was almost as bad, they had the full protection of the law. I have seen a Policeman walk up to toughest looking charcter and place his hand on his shoulder and tell him he was under arrest and that was that, they would walk back to the station together without the use of handcuffs.

Now that makes sense to me.

When I ued to go ice skating at Richmond Ice Rink almost 20yrs ago, there were a couple of characters there that used to come down from the Clapham area, One of the guys toild me how he had beaten up a Policeman and stole his hat and radio(as a trophy) and it's gradually got worse over the years.
As I'm a law abiding citizen that has never been convicted of anything, I would have no problem going back to days you talk about Para.

Ahh... the good old days.... just like Thatcher used to talk about! **Cough ** Bull**** **cough**

I'm in favour of the crime being matched/exceeded by the punishment, apart from murder. Because I don't believe someone can be punished when they're dead! I think they should be made to suffer.

I don't think death is a real deterrent because-

1) Anyone who premeditates murder has already accepted the likelyhood of their own death in return.

2) Anyone who doesn't premeditate murder hasn't thought about the consequences before comitting the act. Therefore not having the chance to be deterred.

3) i find it hard to believe that anyone driven to the brink of murderous intentions cares about the consequences.

But in the U.K the problem is not so much serious crime (i.e. murder) but petty crime and more importantly the perception of crime.

[BarkingSquirrel]

Haha Limey refuses to come in this forum now, but he's still posting in the off topic forum. We should publically humiliate him more often :D

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I have yet to be convinced that the death penalty is an effective deterrent, one of the reasons I believe this to be true especially in the UK and US is that morality is on the skids and fewer people are willing to consider the consequences or accept any responsibility for their actions. I was talking to my best mate on the phone last night who stays in NY and he was telling me that a friend of his who is in LE in the Bronx, reckons that the level of crime has fallen but the extremity of the crimes has exceeded levels of degradation he thought impossible and this coming from someone who was in the Bronx in the 80's! There seems to more child on child crimes committed every year which is a very bad sign for the future. :|

[USMC8541]

I noticed - between the years 1935 and 1950 - there were more executions, than murders !!!

Why is this ?

Did they realise - 'damn - we just hung the wrong guy', before hanging the next person they suspected ?

rofl

Probably because a ton of people on death row all lost their final appeals withing the same time frame and were executed after years of waiting on death row.

[limey]

Haha Limey refuses to come in this forum now, but he's still posting in the off topic forum. We should publically humiliate him more often :D

I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't been in the O/T forum for a couple of days.

[limey]

Ahhh - someone who is too stupid to know a joke when they see one.


No...I think most of us realized that from your first post ;)

Yeah - quite a sense of humour I have - just call me gifted.

Yeah right you are quite funny, and as far as gifted I prefer to use the term special.

I need to be special, to hang around with you guys !!! But at least I only need to lower myself for an hour each night.



;)

Each night over here but I would say every morning where you are, I'd just love to know where abouts in Oz you are.C'mon Geezah, of all people, I'd expect you to be the one to do the research :P

Name
Undisclosed(Though I believe his 1st is Daren)
Age
35
Gender
Male
Marital Status
Single
Location
Lancs, England, United Kingdom
Occupation
A monkey's slave
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/00.jpg
Looks like a butch lesbo to me.

Damn, where'd you get all that from, while I mightbe ok at looking up gun control stuff, I'd be interested as to how you found all that?

P.S. I did check his profile but I wasn't sure about his first name being Darren due to the fact it's a hotmail account.

Wow, he's a year older than me, I wonder if he used to go Raving?

I still get over all the info you supplied BarkingSquirrel, I give you one Camden Clap for your efforts and must thank you for my new avatar p-)

I wonder....seeing as he is located in Lancs, if he's ever been to London?Sorry for the late reply, long day with some sleeping thrown in.

It was as simple as taking his email address and adding him to my MSN messenger list then having a look at his profile. Simplicity is genius :) I bet he's real happy now :P Kinda scary though ain't it - he's 13 years older than me, yet acts 14 years younger.

I still say he looks like a butch lesbo.

How would someone look if they were 10 years before birth ?

[walford]

How would someone look if they were 10 years before birth?I'm sure that there are some fiends from the Off-Topic section who would be only to happy to Photoshop something to illustrate that speculation for you. http://squaries.phrea.com/pukey.gif

[BarkingSquirrel]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Parasaur/limeysalittlebitch.jpg

[limey]

Ahhh - BS, uses his usual intelligence to explain himself.

He posts nothing.

[walford]

You're the one who wanted to know what someone looked like 10yrs before birth in a death penalty discussion...

[von_Moo142]

http://www.lexingtonprosecutor.com/images/deathpenaltygraph2.jpg

That histogram (I think) doesn't demonstrate anything. It's another example of meaningless statistical "analysis". This type of thing is as bad as the crap that Moore emits.


It looks to me that murders (convicted or detected, who knows?) fell as the US (as a whole presumably, it's not clear that that is the case though) pulled out of the depression. Consequently, there were less executions.

The rise in the number of murders at the start of the sixties ties in nicely with cocaine starting to beome big buisness. The fall in the number of murders ties in nicely with the introdution of laws to lock up gang members and other persistant criminals, and the consequent introduction of lots of new prisons.


Interestingly, the article seems to imply such a short latancy between execution rate and murder rate that we should expect to see the murder rate slewing downwards at the peaks in the 1930's.


I suppose the death penalty might deter some criminals, but you sure as hell aren't going to be thinking about it when you're butchering your significant other with a carving knife.

[von_Moo142]

Murders per 66.000 people? What's wrong with per 100.000 people, like everywhere else?

Using per 66000 makes the plot look more convincing. If it were per 100000 the execution plot would be much lower than the murder plot. Per 66000 implies a period of harmony during the good 'ol days, and a subsequent misbalence that is only now starting to be addressed.


Remember, it just has to look convincing. Anyone who stops to think about it would decide that the link is tenuous at best. This is the crudest and most simplislistic form of statistical manipulation that I have seen in years.


For the doubters, sketch it out yourself if you can't see what I mean intuitively.