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2RHPZ
02-14-2005, 01:39 AM
Russia Will Consider Return of WWII Art

By JUDITH INGRAM
Associated Press Writer

MOSCOW (AP) -- Russia will return so-called trophy art taken from Nazi Germany during World War II only on a case-by-case basis, an official said Friday, arguing that most of the cultural treasures Moscow retains were seized as compensation for huge Soviet wartime damage.

Anatoly Vilkov, deputy chief of the Russian government agency that preserves the nation's cultural legacy, said Russia held some 249,000 art objects, more than 260,000 archive files and 1.25 million books and publications seized as compensation.

Germany and other countries have pressed for the return of the collections, which they argue were taken illegally.

A Russian law that went into effect in 2000 distinguishes between illegal trophies - taken without a military commander's sanction - and those Moscow sees as restitution for the 27 million Soviet lives lost, 100 museums destroyed and utter ruin of entire cities during the conflict it calls the Great Patriotic War.

Since 2000, Russia has satisfied six claims, for four archive and two art collections, said Vilkov.

Just one of those claims came from Germany, to which Russia returned a set of stained-glass windows from a church. The others were from the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and Ukraine - none of them Nazi allies.

In addition to those countries, Hungary, Austria, Poland, the United States, Great Britain and Greece have lodged claims against Russia.

"We are prepared to satisfy claims for objects that were taken as trophies, and also if they belonged to Holocaust victims or governments that suffered from (German) occupation," Vilkov said at a news conference.

Vilkov said Moscow and Budapest were close to agreement on the return of a 134-volume religious school library collection from the eastern Hungarian town of Sarospatak, which had been deposited in Budapest bank vaults during the war.

Before concluding the deal, Russia is awaiting confirmation that Hungary is legally allowed to return any Russian cultural treasures that may have ended up in the Central European country, he said.

As to objects that Russian courts have ruled legitimate Russian state property, "they can be returned to Germany only on the basis of an adequate exchange and the passage of a special international agreement," Vilkov said.

"So if for example, Germany calls for the return of the Schliemann gold, (we'll reply) 'No, you propose what would be an equal exchange,'" Vilkov said, referring to a legendary trove of gold objects excavated from Troy by a German archaeologist and once displayed in Berlin.

"Of course they won't find anything, but that's the only way it can be returned," he said, chuckling.

This year's celebration of the Allied victory over Nazi Germany is likely to rekindle international debates over the fate of the trophy art, much of which has been hidden from the public view for nearly 60 years in state museum storehouses.

Link (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RUSSIA_TROPHY_ART?SITE=TNNPT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

Marmot1
02-14-2005, 08:52 AM
I seriously doubt in it... Poland several times asked for return of Polish art, colections and archives stolen by red army during and after the war. Usualy answer was short and radiculus - they claimed that those pieces of art were troopy legally claimed on nazi germany. Indeed many times they stolen art that was stolen previously by germans (which do not constitule any legal rights on russian side) but many things were stolen directly by red army in 1939 and later during so called "liberation"

Werewolf01
02-14-2005, 03:02 PM
I think it will be a cold day in Hell before anything looted by the Russians is ever returned.

bloddyaxe
02-14-2005, 04:01 PM
The fact is that nations rarely return anything that their armies have stolen in wars. For one thing, the U.S. have more antique japanese swords than Japan itself. Most of them were taken during their occupation after WWII.

Denmark also still keeps the majority of the literary works of Icelandic scholars from the middle ages. They returned a part of them though, but only with us abandoning any claim to the rest of them.

Werewolf01
02-14-2005, 04:36 PM
The fact is that nations rarely return anything that their armies have stolen in wars. For one thing, the U.S. have more antique japanese swords than Japan itself. Most of them were taken during their occupation after WWII.

Denmark also still keeps the majority of the literary works of Icelandic scholars from the middle ages. They returned a part of them though, but only with us abandoning any claim to the rest of them.

There is a difference between soldiers looting, and state sponsored looting. The Nazis were "bad" for looting museums and private collections, but the Russians (or anybody else for that matter) are not? I don't sympathize with the fascist bastards, don't get me wrong. It's just a double standard.

perdurabo
02-14-2005, 06:30 PM
I seriously doubt in it... Poland several times asked for return of Polish art, colections and archives stolen by red army during and after the war. Usualy answer was short and radiculus - they claimed that those pieces of art were troopy legally claimed on nazi germany. Indeed many times they stolen art that was stolen previously by germans (which do not constitule any legal rights on russian side) but many things were stolen directly by red army in 1939 and later during so called "liberation"
you know sweeds still have our XVII gold and art they signed return of it loooong time ago...

Kilgor
02-14-2005, 09:26 PM
Russia earned it, so you guys keep it.

**** giving it back :D

Kitsune
02-15-2005, 12:09 AM
:roll: Could someone please run over Kilgor with his car? Twice or thrice would be enough.

sergey31
02-15-2005, 03:06 AM
Russia should keep all of it..... After all Germany did act in a aggression and slaughtered millions of Russian population and there is a price they should have paid, and that art is a very small price if at all.

perdurabo
02-15-2005, 09:42 AM
what about Polish art? Lithuanian? Estonian? French?
first germans stole it and then russians took it because germany attacked rusia :roll: or russians attacked and looted (for egzample estern Poland in 39-40) gee realy russians erned their share

king_nothing100
02-15-2005, 01:42 PM
Wonder where Russia's amber room is? Whole room made of amber taken by the Germans, never been found iirc.

sergey31
02-15-2005, 02:22 PM
what about Polish art? Lithuanian? Estonian? French?
first germans stole it and then russians took it because germany attacked rusia :roll: or russians attacked and looted (for egzample estern Poland in 39-40) gee realy russians erned their share

Poles deserve it too... on a scale for fighting Russians and supporting Tatars is burning Moscow back in 1500's.... Not to mention massacring Ukrainians.
So goes for the French for having such a nice mannered 4 foot tall ruller who's France land did not satisfy his need/wants.

perdurabo
02-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Poles deserve it too... on a scale for fighting Russians and supporting Tatars is burning Moscow back in 1500's.... Not to mention massacring Ukrainians.

i hope you are joking

Para
02-15-2005, 02:43 PM
All the Countries that Germany conquered had their art treasures looted by the Germans. Now have the Germans returned all the art they looted from Russia, well the answer is No. The main reason for that is it has been lost or taken away by the retreating German troops. Hitler also ordered the complete destruction of as much of the Conquered Countries as possible along with it's arts and historic buildings, so what makes them think after 60 years they deserve to get back all their treasures. Personally I don't blame the Russians if they keep it.

sergey31
02-15-2005, 03:16 PM
Poles deserve it too... on a scale for fighting Russians and supporting Tatars is burning Moscow back in 1500's.... Not to mention massacring Ukrainians.

i hope you are joking

Actually.....................


















No I'm not.