A history of American Foul Ups

[Skaman]

1953: US overthrows prime minister Mossadeq of Iran, US then installs Shah as dictator.

1954-US overthrows democratically elected President of Guatemela, 200,000 civillians are consecutively killed.

1963-1975 America backs assisination of South Vietnimese President Diem.To prevent spread of Communism through a domino effect, they invade North Vietnam and 4 million people in South East Asia die. Communism remained.

1973-US stages coup in Chile, democratically elected President Salvator Allende is assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet is installed.
5,000 Chilienas are inturn murdered

1977-US backs military rulers of El Salvador, selling them American made weapons. 70,000 Salvadorans are killed, many by US sold weapons.

1980's-US trains osama bin laden in ways to kill soviets during Afghanistan occupation. CIA provides him wth 3 billion US

1981-US trains and funds "contras", 30,000 Nicirauguans die

1982-US provides billions in foreign aid to Sadam to sponsor his war againt Iran. Weapons are inturn used on his own people.

1987-Disatisfied with Sadams actions, US sells Iran Weapons to be used againt Iraq military.

1989-Noriega, a CIA agent begins serving as president of Panama. USA discourages this. USA eventully steps in to remove him, resulting in 3,000 Panamanian deaths.

1990-Iraq invades kuwait using billions provided by USA 8 years prior.

1991-USA steps in defeating Sadam, fearing Iraq is a chllange to their Saudi oil reserves. Kuwait is used as a "blank check". Kuwait inturn becomes an American puppet with a hardly functioning democracy.

1992-US puts embargoes against Haitian goverement. Currency is inflated, jobs are lost, food runs out. USA steps in to restore order. USA polices for a few months, then leaves before a formal infrastructure is established. Problems return to Haiti.

1993-US leads operation "restore hope" in Somalia in an attempt to overthrow the warlords, restoring peace and ending famine. A US mission goes astray, and results in the entire US military evacuation, crumbling the UN mission. Somalia returns to chaos.

1998-Sudan-USA bombs supposed weapons factory, which apparently was making Aspirin.

1991-current- Bombs are dropped on Iraq continually, and sanctions are places on Iraqi goverment. 500,000 die from bombing and sanctions

2000-USA gives taliban ruled goverment in Afghanistan $245 million in goverment aid.

2001-Osama bin laden uses CIA training and mass amount of American "aid" to plan and carry out the 911 tragedies. 3,000 people are killed

2003-Bush adminisration invades Iraq under false pre-tenses. Thousands of Iraqi's die in struggle. 400 American soldiers are killed.

[Ratamacue]

He's proved it guys. The US is evil. We'd best nuke Washington before we do anything else evil.

[Fargin]

pre-lock +1

You've already posted this once (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5084&start=60) today

[Skaman]

pre-lock +1

You've already posted this once (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5084&start=60) today


True, yet getting the word across is important. I went alot out of may to post all this stuff, so im not going to have it collect dust.

[Seraphim]

1953: US overthrows prime minister Mossadeq of Iran, US then installs Shah as dictator.

Yes that was a true blunder...you should also include that Mossadeq was a democratic leader who was elected.

[Flagg]

I'm too tired to correct the many factual errors in this post right now....maybe tomorrow.

[Skaman]

I'm too tired to correct the many factual errors in this post right now....maybe tomorrow.

a factual error, is that not an oxymoron?

[StarvingStudent47]

a factual error, is that not an oxymoron?

No it's not. There are errors in FACT and errors in REASONING (you could also have errors in grammar, etc). Haven't you learned this in that technical writing class you're so proud of?

[Flagg]

1963-1975 America backs assisination of South Vietnimese President Diem.To prevent spread of Communism threw a domino effect, they invade North Korea and 4 million people in South East Asia die. Communism remained.

I assume you meant North VIETNAM? And the last time I checked I'm pretty sure it was the North Vietnamese that invaded not only South Vietnam but also Laos and Cambodia either directly or through the use of their Viet Cong surrogates.


1980's-US trains osama bin laden in ways to kill soviets during Afghanistan occupation. CIA provides him wth 3 billion US

I'm curious......did the CIA pay Osama by cash,check, or does Osama accept American Express?


1982-US provides billions in foreign aid to Sadam to sponsor his war againt Iran. Weapons are inturn used on his own people.

Where in the 1982 US fiscal budget on foriegn aid does it list:

"Don't forget to pay Saddam Hussein billions to support his evil plans."

Please cite references to billions in aid and weapons sold to Iraq by US


1990-Iraq invades kuwait using billions provided by USA 8 years prior.

See above


1991-USA steps in defeating Sadam, fearing Iraq is a chllange to their Saudi oil reserves. Kuwait is used as a "blank check". Kuwait inturn becomes an American puppet with a hardly functioning democracy.

Are in implying Kuwait was EVER democratic to begin with?


1992-US puts embargoes against Haitian goverement. Currency is inflated, jobs are lost, food runs out. USA steps in to restore order. USA polices for a few months, then leaves before a formal infrastructure is established. Problems return to Haiti.

How about YOU go to that dump called Haiti......


1998-Sudan-USA bombs supposed weapons factory, which apparently was making Aspirin.

The last time I heard this one it was a baby-formula factory


1991-current- Bombs are dropped on Iraq continually, and sanctions are places on Iraqi goverment. 500,000 die from bombing and sanctions

Saddam's use of his country's massive wealth to fund his wars and not his people's needs had absolutely nothing to do with it, right?


2000-USA gives taliban ruled goverment in Afghanistan $245 in goverment aid.

$245 bucks? big deal...you can't even buy a single AK47 in Kabul for $245


2001-Osama bin laden uses CIA training and mass amount of American "aid" to plan and carry out the 911 tragedies. 3,000 people are killed

You mean 9/11 was an evil conspiracy? Holy crap! I had no idea

One bit of advice.....maybe take a breath in between hits on the crack pipe....you're losing it

[bishop1]

Just curious, how many of those quotes did you get from Bowling For Columbine? Just curious, if you are an American, (which i hope to God youre not, and if you are its too bad no one can beat your sorry commie ass for saying this stuff), then why dont you leave, were such horrible murdering imperalist bastards that have ruined more people lives than we can count, how can you put up living and associating with such a horrible tyranical government, youre free to buy a plane ticket and get your sorry ungrateful stupid ignorant naive communist liberal ass as far away from here as you can. Go live in a garden spot such as Beruit, or Somalia, or Libya, or Cuba, youre free to go wherever you want. And there you wont have to worry about your government killing other nations people, you can wonder if youre gonna be killed in your bed sleeping at night so no one else will. Or you can starve to death in your peaceful soverin nation of choice. America has done more for the world in its short life and has contributed more toward the advancment of the globe than any other countrys put together, except maybe the England of old, but theyre older than we are too. If our country is so bad you want to spend your time complaining about it, why live here? And since you are living here, choosing to stay here on your own choice, id say grow the **** up and shut your mouth about it unless you plan on doing anything about it.

[Skaman]

yep, i fixed The n.korea and 245 bucks thing, gimme a break, im tired.

[StarvingStudent47]

Just curious, how many of those quotes did you get from Bowling For Columbine? Just curious, if you are an American, (which i hope to God youre not, and if you are its too bad no one can beat your sorry commie ass for saying this stuff), then why dont you leave,

Just for the record, Ducimus is Canadian. Don't let him get you riled up--that's what he's trying to do. We imperialist evil Yankees call such people "trolls" ;)

[StarvingStudent47]

yep, i fixed The n.korea and 245 bucks thing, gimme a break, im tired.

Not tired enough to keep you from going out and looking for a fight, apparently...

[Skaman]

Well bishop, I live In Canada, and Im proud of it. What im trying to make clear is all these foreign operations have amounted to nothting except excessive casaulties and a large amount of wasted US dollars. I think its time the USA rethought its foreign policy.

For every great thing the USA does, there are 3 horrible things lined up next to it.

Ya, some of that stuff is presented By moore in his film, some is not, as were both using similar info to rally our "cause". Except his cause is far larger than my efforts on this forum which are but a mere microcosm in comparison.

[Skaman]

If you guys are so certain that I am once again lying and spouting anti-american propaghanda, disprove it!!!

[Jack Mehoff]

Michael Moore rofl

[Mortimer]

yeah everyone is critical but no one has come up with proof disproving his claims.

Flagg that attempt was pitiful, you should have stayed in bed.

i know a lot of what he has said is true just from junior highschool history.

[Skaman]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/Saddam_MadeInUSA.html

US budget deficit reaches more than $110 trillion for fiscal year 1982


THE PROBLEM

No federal budget -- at least, perhaps, since Calvin Coolidge -- has been good news. But President Reagan's budget for 1983 is the most provocative in living memory, and it has inspired more than the usual criticism. The criticism has about it an air of desperation, as if the deficits and the depredations will have irreversible effects on the economy, and, beyond that, on society and the future of governance in this country.

The administration now projects overall federal spending of $762 billion for 1983, $803 billion for 1984, and, at this writing, admits deficits of $102 billion and $94 billion respectively. Others, including the Congressional Budget Office, say the spending will be almost 10% higher and the deficits will be half again as high. The precise figures do not matter. In any case, they are elusive and subject to almost daily adjustments. The point is the magnitude of the nation's insolvency, and the factors that are causing it.

Among the notable features of the Reagan 1983 budget, the most egregious is the vast increase in defense spending. In terms of spending authorization (the figure I will use throughout this paper), there is a 20% increase, from $214 billion in 1982 to $258 billion in 1983. At this point, considering the extent of the insolvency and surveying the alternatives (further deep cuts in entitlements and domestic government programs, higher taxes, recourse to the money markets or to the "printing press"), even partisans of the Reagan administration have begun to part company and insist that budget-balancing moves include a "fair share" of defense cuts.


In 1986, Taicher would later recall, "President Reagan sent a secret message to Saddam Hussein telling him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran. This message was delivered by Vice President Bush who communicated it to Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed the message to Saddam Hussein." And the U.S. continued throughout the 1980s in backing Hussein by providing military assistance and diplomatic cover for war crimes.
In 1984, the State Department arranged for the sale of 45 Bell 214ST helicopters to Iraq. Four years later The Los Angeles Times reported that "American-built helicopters" were used to gas Kurdish civilians. In March 1988 up to 6,800 Kurds were gassed to death in Halabja by Hussein's troops. In response the U.S. State Department attempted, according to a recent report in The International Herald Tribune, to place blame for the gassing also on the Iranians despite no evidence of Iranian involvement. When the UN Security Council passed a resolution to censure the Halabja attack it called on "both sides to refrain from the future use of chemical weapons."

[Jack Mehoff]

yeah everyone is critical but no one has come up with proof disproving his claims.

Flagg that attempt was pitiful, you should have stayed in bed.

i know a lot of what he has said is true just from junior highschool history.

yes, it's also like he didn't come up with any facts to prove his claims

[Jack Mehoff]

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Iraq/Saddam_MadeInUSA.html

US budget deficit reaches more than $110 trillion for fiscal year 1982


THE PROBLEM

No federal budget -- at least, perhaps, since Calvin Coolidge -- has been good news. But President Reagan's budget for 1983 is the most provocative in living memory, and it has inspired more than the usual criticism. The criticism has about it an air of desperation, as if the deficits and the depredations will have irreversible effects on the economy, and, beyond that, on society and the future of governance in this country.

The administration now projects overall federal spending of $762 billion for 1983, $803 billion for 1984, and, at this writing, admits deficits of $102 billion and $94 billion respectively. Others, including the Congressional Budget Office, say the spending will be almost 10% higher and the deficits will be half again as high. The precise figures do not matter. In any case, they are elusive and subject to almost daily adjustments. The point is the magnitude of the nation's insolvency, and the factors that are causing it.

Among the notable features of the Reagan 1983 budget, the most egregious is the vast increase in defense spending. In terms of spending authorization (the figure I will use throughout this paper), there is a 20% increase, from $214 billion in 1982 to $258 billion in 1983. At this point, considering the extent of the insolvency and surveying the alternatives (further deep cuts in entitlements and domestic government programs, higher taxes, recourse to the money markets or to the "printing press"), even partisans of the Reagan administration have begun to part company and insist that budget-balancing moves include a "fair share" of defense cuts.


In 1986, Taicher would later recall, "President Reagan sent a secret message to Saddam Hussein telling him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran. This message was delivered by Vice President Bush who communicated it to Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed the message to Saddam Hussein." And the U.S. continued throughout the 1980s in backing Hussein by providing military assistance and diplomatic cover for war crimes.
In 1984, the State Department arranged for the sale of 45 Bell 214ST helicopters to Iraq. Four years later The Los Angeles Times reported that "American-built helicopters" were used to gas Kurdish civilians. In March 1988 up to 6,800 Kurds were gassed to death in Halabja by Hussein's troops. In response the U.S. State Department attempted, according to a recent report in The International Herald Tribune, to place blame for the gassing also on the Iranians despite no evidence of Iranian involvement. When the UN Security Council passed a resolution to censure the Halabja attack it called on "both sides to refrain from the future use of chemical weapons."

Out of curiousity, why do you care how Americans suppose to use our money?

[Skaman]

yeah everyone is critical but no one has come up with proof disproving his claims.

Flagg that attempt was pitiful, you should have stayed in bed.

i know a lot of what he has said is true just from junior highschool history.

yes, it's also like he didn't come up with any facts to prove his claims

Whats good enough for you guys? An offical document stamped by the oval office varifying my findings? like come on....

[Skaman]

Because Jack, The American goverment is doing so much harm to this world it makes me sick to my stomach. All I can do is try and spread the word. Wether its at my local campus, with friends and family, or over the internet.

After all, you guys are the ones with the power, you can make change. Your Americans, and you are all bright people. Do something about it.

[Mortimer]

they'd like to think they were in control, but they are to ....arrogant to see how obvious it is to the rest of the world they arn't.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I cant believe you guys bash ducimus19 for posting that. Much of it is true, and the best you guys can come up with is personal remarks against him. Personally I like the United States, but I do believe when mistakes are made the people that made them should fess up an admitt to them. Many of those choices came around to bite america on the ass. just my 2 canadian cents worth....

[ogukuo72]

Come on guys! :roll:

How many mistakes do YOU or would you make in 50 years of walking on this earth?

Sure, hindsight is 20/20. Foreign policy and strategy is inherently complex and dynamic. There will always be unexpected development and complications. It is impossible to be right all the time. Less than twenty strategic errors is a pretty good record for half a century and ten administrations.

[Flagg]

US budget deficit reaches more than $110 trillion for fiscal year 1982

????? What the F

$110 TRILLION in 1982....sorry but that number far exceeds the total value of the global stock markets, currency in circulation, outstanding international debt and the amount in my piggy bank when I was 13.

I once again suggest you step away from the crack pipe before someone gets hurt.

[Flagg]

Whats good enough for you guys? An offical document stamped by the oval office varifying my findings? like come on....

Official document NO.....citing reputable sources and ACCURATE figures....YES

[Flagg]

Flagg that attempt was pitiful, you should have stayed in bed.

Sorry..I didn't realize the post was for real......since the original post by Ducimus was so riddled with errors I didn't bother with a serious response to a poorly constructed post...next time I will not make the same mistake

[mocking_loudly_died]

No comment on this topic. :D

Mmmmm sleep.

[Shake n Bake]

Because Jack, The American goverment is doing so much harm to this world it makes me sick to my stomach. All I can do is try and spread the word. Wether its at my local campus, with friends and family, or over the internet.

After all, you guys are the ones with the power, you can make change. Your Americans, and you are all bright people. Do something about it.

You have an unhealthy fixation with America, Dude..


You're not going to win us over by bombarding the board with criticism and regurgitated **** from anti-American sites... Continuingly beating us over the head and telling us we're stupid is the wrong approach it makes you come across as a big prick and puts us on the defensive.

[Deuterium]

Ducimus....uhhh whatever. Stand around and jump up and down if you want. We'll continue to our course of action. If you don't like it, tough.

[front]

"You're not going to win us over by bombarding the board with criticism and regurgitated **** from anti-American sites..."

I don't think he wants to win us over. I think he's sick of the hypocrisy shown by some extremely vocal Americans (whether on the media or in power or even on this board) who object to anyone questioning the aims and motives of the current administration.

This "my country, right or wrong" attitude is very dangerous...

cheers

front

[Shake n Bake]

Like I said.. alienating us will get you nowhere

[Deuterium]

"You're not going to win us over by bombarding the board with criticism and regurgitated **** from anti-American sites..."

I don't think he wants to win us over. I think he's sick of the hypocrisy shown by some extremely vocal Americans (whether on the media or in power or even on this board) who object to anyone questioning the aims and motives of the current administration.

This "my country, right or wrong" attitude is very dangerous...

cheers

front

In all crisis there are two choices, do something or do nothing. America has always been a nation of people who do something rather than nothing. Sitting around in a circle discussing our feelings and singing will never be a part of our culture. I have found out numerous times in my career that lack of a decision is always worse than a poor decision. What sets us apart is that we review our decisions and adjust fire. On top of all of that is that at our core we ARE A MORALE AND DECENT country. Yes we did have slavery for over a century, but it was from within rather than outside sanctions that caused the change.

[jlanni]

heh... if hes from canada... why dosent he share with us the "LONG" list of canadian military successes..... LOL!....

[WARPIG]

People with courage and character always seem sinister to the rest.
Hermann Hesse (1877 - 1962)
Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)

The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.
Robert Maynard Hutchins
Funny how all the Anti-US members seem to come from countries that have "neutral" foreign policies. Either they come from places that do nothing or can't do anything. I won't go as far as to bad mouth Canada but if I came from someplace that doesn't contribute to anything, I wouldn't complain about those who did. The US goes out in the world and tries to do something. We generally try to do what is best and have had pretty general success. We are targets for scrutiny because of our success and power. Guess what, sometimes it doesn't turn out the way we planned. So, for ****-in-Muh-Ass19 to complain about the US , well compares to the fricking towel boy at a football game complaining about the way the defense screwed up. (Not contributing and doesn't have the skills to contribute anyway.) He will continue to hide behind the safety of apathy and criticise those that risk.
Pointing out the US mistakes is like listing Babe Ruth's strike outs. What a lame attempt at US bashing. Writing bull**** with proper grammer and mediocre facts doesn't mean it's still not bull****.

Here is a little enlightenment for the undeserving.
They all seem to remind me of ****muhass19

Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
Laurence J. Peter (1919 - 1988)
The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.
Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)
It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance.
Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD)
People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
Soren Kierkegaard (1813 - 1855)
'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.Abraham Lincoln (attributed):

[XASA]

A list of American accomplishments would be several times lengthier than any "foul ups" list.

But why bother arguing with a 19-year old student with little "real world" experience who has an inferiority complex?

[Deuterium]

Outstanding post WARPIG. I wish I wrote that. It certainly expresses my point of view. Do something or get the f*ck out of the way.

[Skaman]

Dear Forum Community

Everyone begs for me to show more "evidence", yet not a single person provides some reputable evidence disproving what I have said. Either its a joke, or it blantly wrong. Take note, these are not from an "anti American website"-these are dark days of US history that most Americans would rather forget, and do tend to forget. ie. How many of you knew thousands if Salvadorian deaths were backed by the US goverment in the 1970's? Analyze this timeline, I want you guys to see the trend.....


Ducimus

[budanski]

Well, when you got a plagerist posting facts from the Peoples Goverment Organization (http://pgov.org/facts.htm)... :roll:

[Deuterium]

Dear Ducimus,
No one cares...... Get over it. We are happy with our country. Sorry.

[budanski]

these are not from an "anti American website"-these are dark days of US history that most Americans would rather forget,

Not an Anti American website you say... http://pgov.org/facts.htm

Not only a plagerist but also a liar.

[Skaman]

I agree, it is far better to do something constructive then to sit back idle, watching the world go to hell. The problem with this is, when the US does do something internationally, they tend to "foul" it up. The potentiel is there for a great foreign policy. The USA has the will, the military, and the money to so. How the USA carries out its foreign "aid" must be adressed. My nation is but a mere grain fo sand in the world. Unfourentely Canada can do little but give a few million here and there, send a few troops etc. What strikes me is that the USA has UNBELIEVEABLE potentiel, yet its wasted to supplement their own interests. The last fifty years have been dark days for American foreign policy.

[Deuterium]

Okay its settled, Ducimus you just sit there and talk and we'll do.

[Skaman]

Well, when you got a plagerist posting facts from the Peoples Goverment Organization (http://pgov.org/facts.htm)... :roll:

Thanks Budanski, there are some great sources there I failed to include. Review the thread and get off on yourself. I added to this list by the way. Resubmitting evidence is NOT plagerism.

[Skaman]

http://pgov.org/facts.htm

Why is this "ANTI AMERICAN?", because it says things you would rather not hear>?

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/madein.htm -Osama Article

http://www.sundayherald.com/27572 -Sadam article

http://www.sfu.ca/~sfpirg/hot_topics/time_line.htm -Iran article

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/12/14/kosovo/ Kosovo Article

http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/01101504.htm -245 million for osama

http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB21/02-01.htm- Document for Iran

[Skaman]

Dear Ducimus,
No one cares...... Get over it. We are happy with our country. Sorry.

Are you not upset that so many people have died for no reason and no accomplishment what so ever?

[budanski]

Admit it Douchebag, you hate us Americans cause hordes of Canadian babes streaming across our northern border in hunt of our precious body fluids. (http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2003/11/us_sperm_export.html) ;)

[Skaman]

Admit it Douchebag, you hate us Americans cause hordes of Canadian babes streaming across our northern border in hunt of our precious body fluids. (http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2003/11/us_sperm_export.html) ;)

Yes, sperm.....

[Deuterium]

Dear Ducimus,
No one cares...... Get over it. We are happy with our country. Sorry.

Are you not upset that so many people have died for no reason and no accomplishment what so ever?

As someone who has been asked for the last 20 years to put my life on the line for this "failed American foreign policy" and "dark age" I can say unequivocally no I'm not upset because I find your assertions entirely false, regardless of how many BS websites you post. I lived these last 20 years doing my job. I didn't read it all on a website. I went to these countries. I met the people. I made a differnece. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

[budanski]

Resubmitting evidence is NOT plagerism.

Resubmitting evidence with a source and credit given to the author is not plagerism.

Claiming they were your own is. Should I repost the evidence again?

[Skaman]

Can you share Deuterium?

[WARPIG]

Taking the time to scrutinize the your original post would just feed your stupidity. The thing no one has said so far , is that much of the facts you listed is fairly accurate. When you look at some facts and speak on them.. that is just an opinion. If you are exposed only to facts from your view point that is bias. When you choose only facts you agree with..that is ignorance. The truth isn't based on just a few facts.. you have to list all of the facts to call it the truth. You haven't done that.

I am well aware of American History. I know about military blunders and attempted cover ups.. USS Indianapolis.. to things as foul as the racism in our history... black slavery, America Indians, treatment of Japonese during WWII. It is all part of what shapes character. Mistakes shape countries as much as they do people. Action will aways risk error or failure. Intent risks nothing, and gains nothing.

Food for thought... if you marry.. have kids.. and after some time.. divorce... do you regret being married? Perhaps getting married was a mistake but what of the result? Do you call your children mistakes?

Too big of a concept for a young moron. I'll help you.
Boys will often say "yes.. it was all a mistake.. now my life is ruined."
Men will see it differently...seeing those failures as things that shape who you are and build your character. It is an opportunity to prove your mettle and shape the next generation stronger by learning from your mistakes.

As you have proven with every post that you litter this forum with.. you.. are merely a boy. Hiding in the safety of conformity, indifferance, and apathy.. only to find courage by shouting from the window to criticise those who brave the weather.

[budanski]

yeah, what he said.

[Uncle Sam]

Give me a break..... :cantbeli:

[Adri]

those things that ducimus19 have listed is true, how ever it is maby not the hole document but I can needer prove that or disprove that.

but again, this maby looks bad but it is a normal list for any country (okey, maby not the old tibet, befor china got a hold on it)

btw: what I see is that some people say this:
"you commi bastard!"
and
"can you prove this?"

nr.1)
in your world every one who disagree with you is a commi ????
guy the cold war is over.....

nr.2)
well I can not prove it but belive me it can be proven, f.eks I have seen a UN raport over how many iraqis that have died of the sanctions, the gulf war 1 was good, the gulf war 2 was bad... WHY? well it sould have been a part of the gulf war1......

[Trigger]

The only recurring question I have is: Why does he come here to voice his anti-American bull****? Someone show me the place on this site where it says 'Please direct all the Anti U.S. garbage you can muster here'. The fact that he continues to clutter up an otherwise wonderful site with unproductive, inflammatory tripe reveals his true intent: To irritate.
Where do we draw the line between censorship and more formal moderator control of what gets posted here?

[NcDeuce]

A history of American Foul Ups

Every single nation in the history of our world has had foul ups.

That being said, I don't have a big problem at viewing some of our nation's mistakes...it is imperative that we learn from our mistakes, of course.

But over 3/4 of the events you named were not foul-ups. I am not going to waste my breath on you ducimus, QUITE FRANKLY, you're not worth it and you'll just rant on how you are right and America is wrong.

I said it before and I'll say it again, do some more research from both aspects of events in history. And you must have a fetish for bashing America, you can keep on because your opinion doesn't mean jackshi*.

[XASA]

The only recurring question I have is: Why does he come here to voice his anti-American bull****? Someone show me the place on this site where it says 'Please direct all the Anti U.S. garbage you can muster here'. The fact that he continues to clutter up an otherwise wonderful site with unproductive, inflammatory tripe reveals his true intent: To irritate.
Where do we draw the line between censorship and more formal moderator control of what gets posted here?

Good question. There are several who are drawn to this site to post Anti-American articles, rants and propaganda. Some claim they do it for debate, others to educate and a few admit to being antagonistic. It seems they find a forum based on military photos, equipment, history and topics an alien concept and go out of their way to denounce the U.S. and, specifically, the U.S. military. For some, I think they have personal issues when it comes to America because many of them can't differentiate between American government, American culture and the American people. Most of their posts are so blatently anti-American one wonders why they continue to visit this strongly pro-American forum.

Unfortunately, their stance distracts from the forum's military theme. Being an open forum, I don't think censorship is the answer. But ignoring their posts might keep their rants to a minimum. Look at how many of us felt the need to respond to this thread and ode's American casualty scoreboard. All we're doing is feeding the trolls and making them feel like Internet forum big shots when in fact they are, I'm assuming, very insecure people with an almost psychotic hate for America.

[budanski]

That and they got a small wee wee.

[WARPIG]

The more the merrier. We can't ban them since there aren't any forums for "idiots who love to spew ignorance." So we have to deal with them. I pesonally love the source for outlet.
I once had a dumba55 come up to me while I was on duty with Operation Noble Eagle, and say that my presence at the airport was violating his constitutional right. Although I really wanted to send him on his way with the worst weddgie known to man while quoting the "oath of enlistment" to him, I acted as a professional. After all, while wearing a US ARMY uniform I don't just represent the US Army, but my family name is displayed on the other pocket. So I simply asked him to kindly check his ignorance with his other baggage while traveling and warned him not to harrass even one more of my soldiers while on my watch. In this forum atleast I can voice my real opinion and bash the morons as professionaly as I wish or, just for fancy ,take a little pleasure in insulting them personally.

[Trigger]

I love fan mail via private message...

Trigger, my god you are such an imputent whiner. Want a tissue the next time you throw a hissy fit?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Add up all the people on the list...thats alot of people dead due to bad policy/luck. Everyone makes mistakes, it seems nobody wants to hear about past ones on this forum. It seems everyone takes it as "anti-american" comments and trys to just bad mouth ducimus for posting them.
Personally I dont know if he is anti-american or not, im not here to argue that. The fact is you cant simply disregard all of those as "non-sense", in every lie there is a grain of truth to it...just my .02 canadian cents worth.

[Trigger]

I wasn't discussing the errors in his post, I was discussing his need to post them here in the first place. Focus.

[WARPIG]

Canadians have .02 cents? What about .0002 cents? :lol:
I think you missed it Bastardchild. Yeah..some people don't like US mistakes being advertised much less pointed out by the likes of dicamus.
Most of us have problems with his half-truths. His best defence is to tell people to prove him wrong. Weak. Did you read my previous post?

Taking the time to scrutinize the your original post would just feed your stupidity. The thing no one has said so far , is that much of the facts you listed is fairly accurate. When you look at some facts and speak on them.. that is just an opinion. If you are exposed only to facts from your view point that is bias. When you choose only facts you agree with..that is ignorance. The truth isn't based on just a few facts.. you have to list all of the facts to call it the truth.
Don't line yourself with Dicamus just cause he's a Canadian eh? His views are flammable and ignorant. You have atleast shown some perspective.

[radon]

Deuterium it is not really relevant to that list has Ducimus19 ever done anything about somehting.

Sorry but imo he is right if he says more replies had something to do about him than his list.

[Trigger]

radon, the point is if he hasn't done things perfectly himself, then who is he to criticize others of past actions?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone —Jesus

[Jack Mehoff]

Admit it Douchebag, you hate us Americans cause hordes of Canadian babes streaming across our northern border in hunt of our precious body fluids. (http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2003/11/us_sperm_export.html) ;)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: woot woot woot woot rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl http://mysmilies.gamewizards.net/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif
http://mysmilies.gamewizards.net/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gifhttp://mysmilies.gamewizards.net/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif

[Jack Mehoff]

I love fan mail via private message...

Trigger, my god you are such an imputent whiner. Want a tissue the next time you throw a hissy fit?

more fan mail from doucebag19



doucebag19 wrote:
You cant put lies in a documentry. The movie is reviewd by the film board prior to being released for accuracy. Certain scenes are crafted to be biased, yet his(Michael Moore) facts and figures are to the dime.

[Seoulstriker]

I love fan mail via private message...

Trigger, my god you are such an imputent whiner. Want a tissue the next time you throw a hissy fit?

more fan mail from doucebag19



doucebag19 wrote:
You cant put lies in a documentry. The movie is reviewd by the film board prior to being released for accuracy. Certain scenes are crafted to be biased, yet his(Michael Moore) facts and figures are to the dime.

well, douchebag19, michael moore lied about the NRA being formed from KKK members. :roll:

[Nawlins]

http://www.moorelies.com/

[Seoulstriker]

http://www.moorelies.com/

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com

[WARPIG]

Look at these "facts"... taken out of context for what ever biased goal this moron has in mind.

1963-1975 America backs assisination of South Vietnimese President Diem.To prevent spread of Communism through a domino effect, they invade North Vietnam and 4 million people in South East Asia die. Communism remained. Fighting in Laos resumed later in 1962 after the signing of the 1962 Declaration on the Neutrality of Laos in Geneva by fourteen nations including North Vietnam and the United States. An estimated 10,000 North Vietnamese were still present in Laos, despite the stipulation their government had signed at Geneva that withdrawal of all foreign troops be completed by October 7. Because the North Vietnamese did not respect the withdrawal requirement of the Geneva agreement, the United States stepped up military aid to the Kingdom of Laos but it avoided deploying ground troops which would have violated the agreement.
As part of the American effort to support the Kingdom of Laos, United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) personnel operating from a base at Udon Thani, Thailand, took over the support of 30,000 to 36,000 irregulars, including Hmong guerrillas who bore the brunt of the fighting in northern Laos. The irregulars, who became known as the Secret Army, were instrumental in helping to rescue a large number of United States airmen who were shot down over Laos. By this time, the Hmong leader Vang Pao had risen to the rank of general in the Royal Lao Army and commanded the Second Military Region.
In October 1964, in response to an offensive by the Pathet Lao and North Vietnamese to expel the Laotian Neutralists from the Plain of Jars, the United States began providing air support against Pathet Lao positions and North Vietnamese supply lines. However, it was not until March 1966 at Phoukout, northwest of the Plain of Jars, that the Pathet Lao started to win major battles against the Royal Lao Army. In July 1966, the Pathet Lao won another major battle in the Nambak Valley in northern Louangphrabang Province by overrunning a Royal Lao Army base and inflicting heavy casualties. These victories gave the Pathet Lao new momentum in the war for control of Laos.
Meanwhile, in southern Laos, where the North Vietnamese had been working steadily every dry season to expand the Ho Chi Minh Trail network leading into the Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam), the intensity of the air war also grew. The air war in Laos operated under a complicated command and control system that involved the United States embassy in Vientiane, the Military Assistance Command Vietnam in Saigon, Royal Thai air bases in Thailand, the commander in chief Pacific in Honolulu, and sometimes even the White House.
During the June 1969 rainy season, the Pathet Lao and two North Vietnamese battalions, using Soviet tanks, pushed the Royal Lao Army and the Neutralists out of their base at Muang Souy northwest of the Plain of Jars. Fighting continued during the monsoon season. In September 1969, Vang Pao's Hmong, supported by American bombing, launched a series of surprise attacks against key points on the Plain of Jars. A new North Vietnamese army division joined the battle shortly thereafter and by February 1970 had regained all of the devastated plain.
In 1970, despite eight years of ground offensives by the Royal Lao Army and massive United States air support, the Pathet Lao had grown into an army of 48,000 troops and was prepared to challenge Royal Lao Army forces on their own territory by mounting large offensives in the south engaging an even greater number of North Vietnamese forces. The introduction of Soviet-made long-range 130mm artillery pieces onto the battlefield in that year allowed the Pathet Lao and North Vietnamese to neutralize to some extent the Royal Lao Army's advantage of air superiority.
By December 1971, the Pathet Lao had taken Paksong on the Bolovens Plateau and had invested the main Hmong base at Longtiang. A major North Vietnamese-Pathet Lao offensive against Vang Pao and the Hmong began in mid-December 1971 and lasted until the end of April 1972. This battle involved more than twenty North Vietnamese battalions and some 10,000 Hmong irregulars and Royal Lao Army defenders. Communist advances continued into 1972 and encircled Thakhek on the Mekong, and Vientiane.
The cease-fire of February 22, 1973, ended United States bombing and temporarily halted ground offensives. The Pathet Lao, however, used the cessation of military operations to resupply their forces over the long and exposed roads from North Vietnam.
I think you missed some "facts" there dicmuhass19 You left out the Canadian involvement in the Vietnam war.

1989-Noriega, a CIA agent begins serving as president of Panama. USA discourages this. USA eventully steps in to remove him, resulting in 3,000 Panamanian deaths.
On December 15, 1989, Noriega sought and was given by the legislature the title of chief executive officer of the government. The Noriega-led assembly declared that a state of war with the United States existed. The next day Panamanian soldiers killed an unarmed U.S. Marine officer dressed in civilian clothes.
Retaliation by the United States was quick and decisive. On December 17, U.S. President George Bush ordered troops to Panama, with the subsequently announced aims of seizing Noriega to face drug charges in the United States, protecting American lives and property, and restoring Panamanian liberties. The initial attack took place in darkness on the morning of December 20 and was focused primarily on Noriega's headquarters in Panama City. U.S. forces quickly overcame most organized resistance, but in the following days numerous Panamanian soldiers and civilians looted shops in Panama City and Colón, and some 2,000 U.S. reinforcements were flown in to help establish order. The number of Panamanians killed in the operation was estimated at 200-300 combatants (soldiers and paramilitaries) and some 300 civilians; 23 U.S. soldiers also were killed. Hundreds from both nations were wounded.
On the first day of the invasion, Endara and his two vice presidents were sworn in to head the government of Panama. Noriega took refuge in the Vatican nunciature (embassy) in Panama, until he surrendered to U.S. authorities on January 3, 1990, and was then transported to Miami, Florida. There he stood trial, was convicted on a host of charges, and was sentenced to a U.S. prison. In Panama and also France, Noriega was charged with various crimes, including murder, but no enduring efforts were made to have him extradited.
oops.. you left some out there too.


1991-current- Bombs are dropped on Iraq continually, and sanctions are places on Iraqi goverment. 500,000 die from bombing and sanctions
Listed as a US blunder. If indeed a blunder... maybe it was a typo.. should be listed under UN. Funny how those little "facts" seem to be important. Try this.... http://www.un.org/News/ossg/iraq.htm By the way don't hold Saddam responsible for building palaces while his people starved.

2000-USA gives taliban ruled goverment in Afghanistan $245 million in goverment aid. Maybe another typo. USA gives aid to Afghanistan. Taliban was ruling then which is probably the reason the aid was needed.

2001-Osama bin laden uses CIA training and mass amount of American "aid" to plan and carry out the 911 tragedies. 3,000 people are killed
Americans killed by Osama bin laden. If you call the Boeing aircraft American aid.. ok...it is positively true.
2003-Bush adminisration invades Iraq under false pre-tenses. Thousands of Iraqi's die in struggle. 400 American soldiers are killed
"False pretenses" opinion .. not fact. Combatants die in a war.. old news.. civilians die during combat.. tragic, but not new. American soldiers killed.. hmm, not really the first time that happened either.

Let me try this game dicamus.. hmm how about:
1982- {North Korean hired} Canadian terrorists abort assasination attempt on Republic of Korea President Chun Doo Hwan.
All facts.. but with parts missing (like your bull****.) Makes a really sensational piece of propaganda though huh? See any one can take some facts and twist them around..just not everyone is as impressed with themselves as you are.
Lame assed excuse for a flame.

[Operation Ivy]

I thought the ppl of South East Asia were glad that America got involved in Vietnam

[Jack Mehoff]

I thought the ppl of South East Asia were glad that America got involved in Vietnam

Over one million Vietnamese, mostly South Vietnamese risked their lives over high and pirated sea to escape the communist since 1975. Unlike economic refugees, most of the Vietnamese boat people were very educated, well-to-do individuals. That alone should tells you something is wrong with communism.

[Seoulstriker]

I thought the ppl of South East Asia were glad that America got involved in Vietnam

Over one million Vietnamese, mostly South Vietnamese risked their lives over high and pirated sea to escape the communist since 1975. Unlike economic refugees, most of the Vietnamese boat people were very educated, well-to-do individuals. That alone should tells you something is wrong with communism.

why do people think that chinese people are born naturally smart? could it be that all of the intellectuals fled from communist china through the 20th century? hmmmm. ;)

[StarvingStudent47]

why do people think that chinese people are born naturally smart? could it be that all of the intellectuals fled from communist china through the 20th century? hmmmm. ;)

Actually, I'd say that it's because traditional family structures in that culture place a huge emphasis on getting educated and getting an advanced degree. You see the same sort of thing in many South Asian and Jewish families. It's like how many Boston Irish families put a lot of pressure on boys to become a police officer or firefighter. There are of course numerous exceptions to every rule, but the majority of East Asian families I've known really push the kids toward education.

It reminds me of a joke I heard a while ago:

"Many people have debated when exactly a fetus quits being merely a lump of tissue and becomes a human being in its own right. Each religion has its own perspective, and Judaism is no different: we maintain this fundamental change occurs right after it graduates medical school."

(this thread wasn't going anywhere good to begin with, so I don't feel so bad about hijacking it)

[Seoulstriker]

why do people think that chinese people are born naturally smart? could it be that all of the intellectuals fled from communist china through the 20th century? hmmmm. ;)

Actually, I'd say that it's because traditional family structures in that culture place a huge emphasis on getting educated and getting an advanced degree. You see the same sort of thing in many South Asian and Jewish families. It's like how many Boston Irish families put a lot of pressure on boys to become a police officer or firefighter. There are of course numerous exceptions to every rule, but the majority of East Asian families I've known really push the kids toward education.

It reminds me of a joke I heard a while ago:

"Many people have debated when exactly a fetus quits being merely a lump of tissue and becomes a human being in its own right. Each religion has its own perspective, and Judaism is no different: we maintain this fundamental change occurs right after it graduates medical school."

(this thread wasn't going anywhere good to begin with, so I don't feel so bad about hijacking it)

where these east asian people that you know living in china or were they immigrants?

[usa320]

1991-current- Bombs are dropped on Iraq continually, and sanctions are places on Iraqi goverment. 500,000 die from bombing and sanctions

Of those 500,000 people, how many hundreds of THousands were Iraqi SOldiers?

;)

Not a blunder if you ask me, an overwhelming success.

Douchebag, or ****mus or whatever the hell your name is, stop annoying the **** outta us. We know you are a pimply faced, 14 year old, who spends his time wacking off and playing counterstrike, while dreaming of sleeping with a woman which will never happen....

Go hit the bong, or beat the meat, or go watch cartoons...but please, stop annoying us for the love of god.

You are blatantly a troll, you come here for no logical purpose. EVERY one of your posts are merely insults at America.

GET THE **** OUT ASSHOLE.

[WARPIG]

Who else is asian here?
I am Korean/Irish-American myself.
I assume Seoulstriker is also.

[Jack Mehoff]

Seoultriker is Polish, got Polish sausage?

Budenski is Vietnamese i believe, got rice? :lol:

My mother is full blood Scottish and my dad is Asian, got soup?

[Seoulstriker]

Who else is asian here?
I am Korean/Irish-American myself.
I assume Seoulstriker is also.

no, i'm not asian at all. i am 100% polish. :)

please don't make me explain why my nickname is seoulstriker again. ;) :hug:

[Jack Mehoff]

Who else is asian here?
I am Korean/Irish-American myself.
I assume Seoulstriker is also.

no, i'm not asian at all. i am 100% polish. :)

please don't make me explain why my nickname is seoulstriker again. ;) :hug:

just like you made assumption over my nick name :lol:

[WARPIG]

I assumed Seoul .. yes.. but made no assumptions on yours jack. Someone said you were korean mixed like me.

[Operation Ivy]

60% Polish
then the rst of the 40% is Russian, Irish and German

[usa320]

75% Italian.

http://www.caffelletto.it/italy-flag-moving.gif


25% Irish

http://www.3dz.net/work/3d/_old3d/guiness.jpg

rofl

[Vance]

25% German

Almost 50% French. Yeah, go ahead and call me a frog.

The rest is Mexican, English, and Irish.

[redhawk_six]

heh... if hes from canada... why dosent he share with us the "LONG" list of canadian military successes..... LOL!....

Yes, very mature of you...

You want a list, okay:
Combat Situations:
-WWI
-WWII
-Korea
-Desert Storm 1 (1991)
-Afgahnistan
Peacekeeping/Enforcment/Humanitrian Aid:
-Afgahnistan
-Cyprus
-Golan Heights
-Sinai
-Jerusalem
-Congo
-Serria Leone
-Liberia
-Senegal
-Cambodia
-Bosnia
-Croatia
-Kosovo
-Haiti
-Arabian Gulf
-Persian Gulf
-Central Africa
-Korea
-Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
-East Timor
-Ethiopia
-Eritrea
-Iraq
-Kuwait
-Albania
-Central America
-Turkey
-Prevlaka
Domestic (North America):
-Red River Floods
-APEC Confrence in Vancouver
-FLQ conflict in Quebec
-Ice storms of East, Central Canada
-Swissair flight 111 Crash
-9/11
-Summer 2003 BC Forest Fire Disaster Assistence
-Oka Conflict

Those are just the ones I could find in 15 minutes.

With a total of nearly 4000 troops currently (as in this very second) deployed around the world.

[Trigger]

So you've got guys still fighting WW1, WW2, Korea and Desert Storm?
Thank God they were able to reach the guys in 'Nam! p-)
*Just kidding Redhawk!*

[StarvingStudent47]

Does anyone else think it's ironic that "Budanski" is Asian in descent and "Seoulstriker" is Polish?

And to whoever asked--my perceptions of East Asian and South Asian families were based primarily off of foreign national students at my university (there was a very large international community there), as well as many first-generation immigrants I've known.

I want to make something clear: I'm not saying that any culture is "better" than any other. I'm instead merely saying that different cultures often put the most stress on different values or pursuits.

[budanski]

Does anyone else think it's ironic that "Budanski" is Asian in descent and "Seoulstriker" is Polish?


LOL. I've pointed that out earlier. What a coinky-dink!!

[Skaman]

It’s truly sad that individuals on this forum try to rationalize American foreign policy through a series of ill fated "counter arguments" and irrelevant facts. I have provided some food for the thought, yet you guys won’t even give time for info to settle. I think its great some of you research, and search for the validity if my accusations, yet far too many of you would rather whine and draw attention away from the discussion at hand. Targeting Canada is NOT a way to escape your own problems that you fail to recognize. A fact can be interpreted in a variety of ways, yet sources help to discern the "truth" from "bias” Many argue that it is illogical to take a black and white approach to certain topics which I tend to agree with. Nonetheless, certain aspects of History are fairly obvious and can only be interpreted in so many ways. No matter how much you analyze a tomato, it’s still a vegetable. Some things are there right before your eyes, yet one must open his eyes and take in alternate opinions. Filtering out the "garbage" will only make you a dense person. Additionally, why this post is not pertinent on this forum is beyond me, as these sub topics relate to Military history and political doctrine.

[Skaman]

I thought it would be nice to post some positive feedback I get, and ensure that we are not alone. I am not portraying an isoloated oppinion, many users tend to agree with this idea.


"Why is everyone on this forum so intent on only hearing the War from a pro stance"

I'm not.

cheers


Man... telling those guys the facts in your thread really got their blood up. Hehe... I realised that the most vocal on the board has kind of taken it over in that any criticism, however legitimate, of the current US administration and it's directions in Iraq is attacked.

This is supposed to be a mil.photos board but some are using it as a cheer platform where they can slap themselves on the back for how much they agree with FOX News and the various lies emanating from the Whitehouse these days.

Anyone who disagrees is attacked... not asked for their point of view.

That is the proven tactic of the right... attack, attack, and attack. Never allow a platform for dissent and never allow a fact to stand in the way of an opinion.

I would'nt worry too much about those guys jumping all over you with their childish graphics and barely comprehensible English.

Let the thread die. The best tactic to challenge their assumptions is to give them enough rope on a thread, find a point which you know is wrong, and give a different view, backing it up with sources. Then sit back and watch the back-pedalling. When the attacks come on your posts simply affirm your statement, invite sourced refutations, and spotlight their idiocy with a simple jibe.

Best thing to do is to pick a specific battle in a thread and win it, not start a whole war with a new thread. :-)

Works for me. Search for my username in the search box above.

Good luck...


hey guy, i was just reading that forum...and you sure are getting a lot of heat from it...btw i completly agree with you.
If you ask me, i would say America has brougth LOTS of sorrow to many parts of the world, and hardly anything else....but here is a sobering thougth: What if it is human nature?

cheers

[Flagg]

It’s truly sad that individuals on this forum try to rationalize American foreign policy through a series of ill fated "counter arguments" and irrelevant facts. I have provided some food for the thought, yet you guys won’t even give time for info to settle.

No Ducimus, what's sad is your own inability to fact check a post likely to cause such controversy.

Writing such a half-accurate and inflammatory post is LIKELY to result in a backlash...what did you honestly expect?

Personally, as I'm not in the US I do not sit in the "The US can do no wrong" camp.

I particularly enjoy reading about the controversial "dirty laundry"...I just think you made a poor case with your post.

I can think of many more lapses in good judgement made by the US.....the Indonesia/East Timor issue from 1970's-1990's is a huge example.

Also, your inclusion of email and PM excerpts doesn't necessarily lend credibility to your argument....after all...many thought the world was flat.

I suspect either you are too naive to realise how abrasive and half-accurate your post was.....or you are just another attention whore.

Which is it?

In the end...those who can, DO..those who can't, BITCH about what they would have done differently

[HooyahCQB]

Don't know if anyone has told you this (skipped pages 2-4) but the CIA did not give any aid to Osama in the '80s (don't ya just love giving out screwed up facts). You ignored or the people you got your info from ignored a key fact. There were two separate rebellions against the Soviets. While we poured in money to the indigenous people of Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia matched our contributions dollar for dollar, insisting their funds go directly to the Arab extremists who had migrated to Afghanistan. At the time, Bin Laden acted as a quartermaster for the Arab Afghans (extremists) providing supplies. So untill you have made sure every thing you've said is FACT, Don't screw with the USA

[Splinter26]

http://photopile.com/photos/retret/family/57649.jpg[/quote]

[usa320]

Well i think that ends this thread.

[HooyahCQB]

OH YEAH! Last time I checked ducimus, a tomato is a fruit. Hell, you can't even get THAT fact straight, so don't waist your time filling the forum with bull. No offense

[budanski]

Hey Budanski,
I just read your awesome thread and I totally eat up everything you post. Thats because I don't have anything better than to ride up your ass


Yo man, I'm not gay or anything, but I think you've got the biggest **** on this board. You rule!! Shouts out to Metallica!


Hello Bud, How are you? I totally agree with you and dont think anyone here is as smart as you. btw, are you single?

[Jack Mehoff]

OH YEAH! Last time I checked ducimus, a tomato is a fruit. Hell, you can't even get THAT fact straight, so don't waist your time filling the forum with bull. No offense


:lol: :lol:

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

sorry warpig i didnt read your last post. Been drunk for a couple days and been working on cars. Would it had made any difference if i posted that info or any other member of the forum?
Nice pic of ducimus19 hahaha rofl

[Merik]

Well bishop, I live In Canada, and Im proud of it. What im trying to make clear is all these foreign operations have amounted to nothting except excessive casaulties and a large amount of wasted US dollars. I think its time the USA rethought its foreign policy.

For every great thing the USA does, there are 3 horrible things lined up next to it.

Ya, some of that stuff is presented By moore in his film, some is not, as were both using similar info to rally our "cause". Except his cause is far larger than my efforts on this forum which are but a mere microcosm in comparison.

Oh yeah and like Canada doesnt need to rethink its domestic military policies? You guys are losing people left and right at HOME all because you are bunch of cheap bastards who like to use equipment that is waay beyond the point of retiring. Besides, your a really ignorant Canadian, so who are you to make remarks on events that maybe we arent so proud of in the past because a bunch of liberal morons cant cough up some balls and do the right thing.

P.S. Under Reagans administration our military was practically at its best and the only real "mistake" that I can think of was the op into that little f-ing South American country in 83. Dont even say anything about Desert Storm because 1) My father was in the Middle East for a year and a half serving to the best of his abilities kicking ass over there and 2) The blunder we made was not to go into Baghdad, other than that it ran like clockwork. There I said it, now that load is off my shoulders.

[Skaman]

I said it before, and i will say it again. STOP drawing attention away from your own problems and trying to dump on Canada. You can face the issue, or go around it and ignore it, which seems to be the general course of action.

[StarvingStudent47]

I said it before, and i will say it again. STOP drawing attention away from your own problems and trying to dump on Canada. You can face the issue, or go around it and ignore it, which seems to be the general course of action.

I'm not going to go point-by-point, year-by-year, country-by-country because I don't want to type that much, and y'all probably don't want to read that much. But here are my two "keep it simple, stupid" points that Ducimus seems to be missing. I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with either of these points:

1. In all of human history, no other superpower has done more good for the world than the United States has. No other superpower has been as willing to intervene altruistically to help the citizens of other countries as the USA has. We have made mistakes; we have a lot of room to improve. But we have done the job much better than any other superpower ever has (from the Roman Empire to Genghis Khan to the British Empire to the Soviet Union).

2. The world is much better off right now than it would be if the USA turned ultra-isolationist and let local dictators (from Slobo to Saddam) or the People's Republic of China call the shots. At the end of the day, the human race is far better off with us than without us.

And that is why I'm proud to be an American.

[WARPIG]

It’s truly sad that individuals on this forum try to rationalize American foreign policy through a series of ill fated "counter arguments" and irrelevant facts. I have provided some food for the thought, yet you guys won’t even give time for info to settle. I think its great some of you research, and search for the validity if my accusations, yet far too many of you would rather whine and draw attention away from the discussion at hand. Targeting Canada is NOT a way to escape your own problems that you fail to recognize. A fact can be interpreted in a variety of ways, yet sources help to discern the "truth" from "bias” Many argue that it is illogical to take a black and white approach to certain topics which I tend to agree with. Nonetheless, certain aspects of History are fairly obvious and can only be interpreted in so many ways. No matter how much you analyze a tomato, it’s still a vegetable. Some things are there right before your eyes, yet one must open his eyes and take in alternate opinions. Filtering out the "garbage" will only make you a dense person. Additionally, why this post is not pertinent on this forum is beyond me, as these sub topics relate to Military history and political doctrine.
You must be kidding. You issued the challange to prove your statements wrong. I met that challenge. You never acknowledged that.That is all they were.. statements drawn from a handful of facts. Instead of opening your eyes, you start trying to backpeddle and criticise people for coming down on Canada. What did you expect? a tomato is a vegetable?? filtering out garbage makes you dense?? a fact can be interpreted?? Can you be more wrong? You are the one who has to "open his eyes" and face fact.
I will explain it as plainly as possible.
Facts are only parts of what explains the truth. For example, a tomato is a fruit. That is only one fact that explains what a tomato is. There is much more. A tomato is round. A tomato is red. etc. So.. how do you interpret a fact? You can interprete a group of facts and come up with a biased opinion or theory. If you have all the facts then you can even find the truth. You haven't done any of that Dicamus19. You refuse to acknowledge it. Now your trying to shift the focus on the people who pick on you or just badmouth Canada. Did you read my last example of how I could come up with a list of "facts" about Canada too? I dare you to acknowledge your bull****. You got it wrong. Found some facts..yes.. found the truth..nope.

[Skaman]

Thats ingeniuos! Warpig has effectively taken my last post, paraphrased it, and spun it in my onward direction. How udderly clever! The points you added are significant to the history of the event, but are generally not pertinent to the summarized event. You see, if I wrote 500 words describing every American foul up, no one could bear to move past 1953. Thus, I summarized and drew the conclousions out of the event.

ie. USA attempts to topple Communimsm in SE asia in 1963-1975. They fail, 4 million die as a reprucussion.

Is that not clear enough, or do you want me to include all the little side stories on heroic GI's so I dont look "bias" The point is, all the events, dates, figures, and outcomes are acurate. How you interpret them is up to you. When America gives $245 million to the taliban goverment in 2000, only to have there ass wiped by it in 2001, one can only think. "hmm, did that money go to improving the qulaity of human rights, or did it go to fund binnies little project?" The events of September 11 2001 speak for themselves. Additionaly, you included but a mere handfull of additional historical info in a half assed attempts to look mildly intelligent. While your at it, find some info on the rest of the 10 nations you failed to recognize. While you posted some additional History and alternate ideas, it hardly proves, or disproves anything. Lastly, and most important, In Canada, Tomatoes are bought in the VEGETABLE bin.

[XASA]

In Canada, Tomatoes are bought in the VEGETABLE bin.

http://www.tomato.org/about/index.html

Why do you guys take this immature fruit seriously? ;)

[Midtown]

Okay, we obviosly dont give a **** about your opinion, we are happy with our lives, maybe you should try suicide bombing something if that stick is so far up your ass.

USA <-------DOESNT GIVE A FLYING **** WHAT YOU THINK.

YOU <-------I NEED TO FEEL IMPORTANT, SO I WILL TRY TO
PICK A FIGHT, THEN WHENEVER SOMEONE MAKES A
VALID POINT, I WILL TELL THEM THAT THEY ARE DODGING
MY POSTS INITAL POINTS! I AM A WASTE OF LIFE!

pack your **** up, go home you *** dumpster.

[WARPIG]

Dicamus19
It doesn't matter which way I put it to you. Your a moron. I could spend the next 20 minutes just to correct your spelling and grammer. I didn't turn your words around on you. I corrected your assumptions as well as your errors. We get our tomatoes out of the vegetable section here too..but most educated people know that tomatoes are vegatables. It's a plain fact. You even refuse to admit that!
Your stupidity doesn't even surprise me.. the surprise is those who have intelligence but are either anti-US or simply don't agree with US foreign policy.. took your side. Really people.. he made a post about US military blunders and his whole post is bashing US Foreign Policy. He can't evne stick to his premise!
Here is a challange to the rest of you.. obviously dicamus19 is not up to it.. If you dis-agree, dislike, or just plain hate the US... well that is cool, look at dicamus' list and find the truth. Explain tho dicamus the whole concept of truth finding versus manipulating facts. Are there US blunders? Hell yes! Did Dicamus discover them.. nope! Take an objective look at both of our posts in this string and give an honest assesment. Is dicamus19 quoting facts based on his bias? based on plain ignorance because he chooses to use facts that prove his conclusion? or .. is he completly right?
Keep in mind he thinks that just dismissing facts that he deems unimportant is called summarizing.

Thats ingeniuos! Warpig has effectively taken my last post, paraphrased it, and spun it in my onward direction. How udderly clever! The points you added are significant to the history of the event, but are generally not pertinent to the summarized event. You see, if I wrote 500 words describing every American foul up, no one could bear to move past 1953. Thus, I summarized and drew the conclousions out of the event.

[MSG Dman]

****imus, you are right, I found a web site that backs up almost all of your claims. Check it out, I am on your side now!

http://web.syr.edu/~jdsegarr/canadasucks.htm

[Desert-Fox]

ok regardless of what you think of canada or the US
then one has to see that many of their plans to "help the world" seem to backfire a lot...

[WARPIG]

Keep in mind.. no one here claims the US as some great white hope for the world. We are an active member of the international community. We will always seem forboding to those who chose not to be active. Old news. We have our share of blunders, as well as successes.. most of the time it isn't quite as black and white as that.
Examples that dicamus19 lists are largely attempts by the US to uphold, protect, or if you would rather, interfere in forein conflicts. Our most common mistake is to commit then back out when we get too much criticism. I honestly think this is the point dicamus19 would try to make if he weren't too stupid. My point is that dicamus will have you believe that if 200,000 people died after we left a conflict.. the US is responsible for those deaths. If we give aid to a country and it becomes corrupted and uses that aid to better themselves while people starve or simply to kill dissenters.. well again..blame US. That's just ignorant thinking. The real picture is that the US is expected to be the muscle for the UN. The UN has flaws that we could spend all week talking about. We support whenever we can and the fact that we act means we risk failure, criticism, poor execution, errors, mistakes, etc. Poor foreign policy? Maybe, I'm open to discuss that. Military blunder? Nope.. but we can discuss those too.. we've made them.. dicamus hasn't pointed them out.. but we have made them.
Bottom line? The US although generally a responsible World Power, is imperfect.
America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair.
Arnold Toynbee (1889 - 1975)

[Trigger]

Desert-Fox wrote:

then one has to see that many of their plans to "help the world" seem to backfire a lot...
Whatever... :roll:

That's like saying 'well, you would've gotten an A+ on your omlette exam, but you are getting an F because you broke the eggs.'

get real.

[WARPIG]

Think of the type of world we would live in if we measured each other by mistakes or criticism.

Baseball hall of fame removes Babe Ruth from it's records as investigation discovers that he struck out more than he hit home runs!

[Adri]

1. In all of human history, no other superpower has done more good for the world than the United States has. No other superpower has been as willing to intervene altruistically to help the citizens of other countries as the USA has. We have made mistakes; we have a lot of room to improve. But we have done the job much better than any other superpower ever has (from the Roman Empire to Genghis Khan to the British Empire to the Soviet Union).

2. The world is much better off right now than it would be if the USA turned ultra-isolationist and let local dictators (from Slobo to Saddam) or the People's Republic of China call the shots. At the end of the day, the human race is far better off with us than without us.

And that is why I'm proud to be an American.

nr.1:
hehe there have only been two superpowers (you can't take with the Roman Empire, Genghis Khan and the British Empire cause it is too old and does not represent the modern world)
and the Soviet Union was poor all hell after ww2.

"We have made mistakes; we have a lot of room to improve"
true and it is allso true that US have done a hell good jobb, but the list that ducimus19 postet was your list of "mistakes" and he didn't post your list of good things witch is longer that the "mistakes" list (but it was facts in ducimus19's list)

NR.2
I can only write one word: Agree

[StarvingStudent47]

nr.1:
hehe there have only been two superpowers (you can't take with the Roman Empire, Genghis Khan and the British Empire cause it is too old and does not represent the modern world)
and the Soviet Union was poor all hell after ww2.
Yeah, the Roman Empire and Genghis Khan are "too old." But not Britain. Britain controlled much of the Middle East, and India, right up to 1947. That IS a world power.

Maybe the Soviet Union was "poor," but it was in every sense of the word still a "world power."

[Skaman]

http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/military_blunders/mb_bop.html


Bay of Pigs....this was an american doozey.

[Operation Ivy]

ok your point

[rokus2595]

Take an objective look at both of our posts in this string and give an honest assesment. Is dicamus19 quoting facts based on his bias?

ducimus19 is right. His post is based on true facts:

United States and British officials plotted the military coup that returned the shah of Iran to power and toppled Iran's elected prime minister, an ardent nationalist.

The document shows that:

# Britain, fearful of Iran's plans to nationalize its oil industry, came up with the idea for the coup in 1952 and pressed the United States to mount a joint operation to remove the prime minister.

# The C.I.A. and S.I.S., the British intelligence service, handpicked Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi to succeed Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh and covertly funneled $5 million to General Zahedi's regime two days after the coup prevailed.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html

A CIA-organized coup overthrew the democratically elected and progressive government of Jacobo Arbenz, initiating 40 years of military-government death squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions and unimaginable cruelty, totaling more than 200,000 victims — indisputably one of the most inhumane chapters of the 20th century.

The justification for the coup that has been put forth over the years is that Guatemala had been on the verge of the proverbial Soviet takeover. In actuality, the Russians had so little interest in the country that it didn't even maintain diplomatic relations. The real problem was that Arbenz had taken over some of the uncultivated land of the US firm, United Fruit Company (today's "United Brands" and Chiquita), which had extremely close ties to the American power elite.

Moreover, in the eyes of Washington, there was the danger of Guatemala's social-democracy model spreading to other countries in Latin America.

http://www.intellnet.org/resources/american_terrorism/CntSthAmrcnvictims.html#Guatemala

and i am sure you can check the other statements and realize they are accurate as well

[NBC Trooper]

What an objective post woot

:roll:

[Skaman]

Uh oh Rokus, you are going to be on the black list like me now!! Nice post though.

[NcDeuce]

Love it or leave it...oh wait you don't live here so you wouldn't know.

[Skaman]

Jeeze...this again. I DONT LIVE there, nor do I need to. Not to mention, do I ever want to.

[Ratamacue]

ducimus, you're on the "black list" because every single thing you ever talk about is blatantly anti-American and never short of criticism. Not to mention you generalize the entire American populace and never take heed to anything any of us say. If you never listen to us, why should we listen to you?

[Skaman]

Thats not true, I think alot of you make some worthwhile points, and well....alot of you dont. What do you want me to say???? Hey Ratamacue, you sure are smart, good point! can I wipe your ass too?

[Ratamacue]

No, I can wipe my own ass, thanks.

[Operation Ivy]

No, I can wipe my own ass, thanks.

rofl rofl rofl i found that funny for some reason

[Fioraon]

No, I can wipe my own ass, thanks.

rofl rofl rofl i found that funny for some reason

Because the ass wiper ducimus19 got rejected?

[Operation Ivy]

rofl rofl

[Ratamacue]

Thats not true, I think alot of you make some worthwhile points, and well....alot of you dont. What do you want me to say???? Hey Ratamacue, you sure are smart, good point! can I wipe your ass too?

No, I want you to maybe listen to what we say. You keep on saying how racially intolerant and how segregated the US is. We keep proving you wrong. You never acknowledge or contest what we say, but rather you just spit out the same **** again and again.

[Skaman]

Thats not true, I think alot of you make some worthwhile points, and well....alot of you dont. What do you want me to say???? Hey Ratamacue, you sure are smart, good point! can I wipe your ass too?

No, I want you to maybe listen to what we say. You keep on saying how racially intolerant and how segregated the US is. We keep proving you wrong. You never acknowledge or contest what we say, but rather you just spit out the same **** again and again.


Hardly, keep proving me WRONG! hahaha You do come to this website often right? I have seen little posts that PROVE anything. If you can link some threads and posts that PROVE something I said was wrong, go for it. Get off your hero stool Ratamacue. You yanks speak with two tounges. You never acknowledge or contest what we say....um. Well, does that apply towards my comments to? Additionaly, you attempt to paint all non us- devotees with the same brush. OVER and OVER again. Uninformed, ignorant, troll, dont live in US etc. What a hypocrite...... rofl

[Salty Dog]

it's pretty ridiculous, this fighting, come on, it's obvious that nobody cares what you have to say ducimus19, and you don't care about what the other people have to say, so why don't you just stop posting back and forth. yeah, the us has made some mistakes, whatever, nobody can be perfect like canada. sometimes we try to help, and we suceed, other times, we fail. whatever. :petting:

[Ratamacue]

Ducimus, do you ever see me arguing with most of the others that criticize the US? No, you probably don't, and that's because they're constructive and don't spout the same bull**** over and over. Maybe someone should make a poll about "do you approve of ducimus and his activity on this board?"

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Wow this threads still going? Has anyone heard the term "beating the dead horse"???...let this thread die for everyone's sake so we can go onto more productive topics.