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View Full Version : Clark story that sent me over the edge



Mark Sman
11-06-2003, 07:51 AM
AP Was the source of this story which I have some problems with.
The story follows my commentary. You might want to read the story first.

COMMENTARY

Headline Inaccurate.
-- there is no "Outline" nevermind a detailed plan to back this headline up. At least not in the story. If somebody told me to follow this plan to replace a lightbulb I'd go looking for the top sergeant before we all got killed.

2a "bring in foreign help"
-- You could go old, gray, bald and dead before this happened. They have been invited in. They are not in, save for those countries that have chosen to join us already. And a not inconsiderable, or forgettable, group is that. Many brave and spirited ally has risen to the call, and have not pulled out at the signs of adversity. There are many countries that have come with us into Iraq. Have lost soldiers. Have lost money, and the ability to call the French 'ami.'

<bias>I am an American. I would like to thank one country in particular here. Australia.
Australia fought with us in Vietnam.
Has never walked away from us. Ever.
This will not be forgotten.
</bias>





2b "reconfigure the military forces serving in Iraq, give Iraqis a stake in the country's success."
-- This is a basic hearts and minds program, which is good, and is already being done. If he thinks the Iraqis dont have a 'a stake in the country's success' he needs to get a new boot on that ground. They do have a stake. About the biggest you could play for too.


3 'Clark said even though he opposed sending troops to Iraq, they must stay to finish the job. "Early exit means retreat or defeat. There can be neither," he said.'
-- "A f'in men"


4 "Clark would transform the U.S. occupation into a NATO operation led by the U.S. forces."
-- Like to see the French and German vote on that one. Seriously. A NATO Op. Not a 'Frenching' chance. And I mean that since 'Frenching' seriously. He must have forgotten how helpful they were in Kosovo.


6. "On the military front, Clark would shut Iraqi borders, rebuild the Iraqi military and send in more intelligence officers and troops to guard weapons dumps."
a. "shut Iraqi borders"
-- a. Close the borders, pure f'in genius, thats why many units have been struggling to pull that mission off for months. Success has been mixed.
Reason: Border is historically porous. Look it up. The word and the history.

b. "Rebuild military"
b -- Yup, underway too. Would general Clark like a military built in the last 2 months or 4 months? Because if he is saying he could do it quicker he is full of alot of French something. It will take 1 to 2 years to build something resembling a proffesional security agency or army for Iraq. Note the date of the article. Please. At this point noone could have built an army or a police force. Remember, we need to build a new force. Not just re-arm soldiers like we did in Japan and Korea late '45.

c. "send in more intelligence officers"
c -- From what 'Frenchin' unit. No seriously. You can't just send in an "Intelligence Officer." They have to be trained, equiped, and supported for that particular area, language, society. About a half-a-hundred other things too. Not to mention what 'Frenchin' untapped unit is he going to find trained and unassigned 'Intell Officers' in. Besides, what command are these "intelligence officers" going to report to. What unit is going to pull off the OP that, that command wants? This statement is pretty much >< F|2e|\|(|-|.

7. "He said Iraqis should have more control of their future - including responsibility for drafting a constitution and control of oil revenues."
-- Um, somebody needs to pick up a newspaper.


8. "Finally, Clark would create a new Atlantic Charter that would stipulate that although the United States will not give up the right to act alone, working together with European allies should be the first option."
-- Ha ha ha haha. Get the French vote on the New Atlantic Charter, and before my laughter dies down, remind me when was the first time I ever gave up the right to act alone. You can't give that right up. I mean because you can't. Really, trust me. You could sign papers that say that. But it simply is a legal fiction. !!You can't give up the right to act alone.!! You can SAY you can. But, you can't. That right is based on the ability to do the act. Oh sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Maybe the French are leading this technology.


STORY

Nov 6, 3:52 AM EST

Clark Outlines Strategy to Win Iraq War

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former general turned presidential candidate Wesley Clark says he has a four-****g strategy to win the war in Iraq and bring home the troops.

In a speech prepared for delivery Thursday at South Carolina State University, Clark says the United States should bring in foreign help, reconfigure the military forces serving in Iraq, give Iraqis a stake in the country's success and rebuild partnerships with European allies.

Clark said even though he opposed sending troops to Iraq, they must stay to finish the job. "Early exit means retreat or defeat. There can be neither," he said.

Most of Clark's previous remarks on the United States' Iraq policy have been criticism of Bush's handling of the war. Thursday's speech was designed to allow Clark to detail what they would do differently - what he calls the "Success Strategy."

Clark said his Iraq plan draws on his experience leading NATO forces in Kosovo. Clark would transform the U.S. occupation into a NATO operation led by the U.S. forces. A civilian from an allied nation would guide reconstruction.

On the military front, Clark would shut Iraqi borders, rebuild the Iraqi military and send in more intelligence officers and troops to guard weapons dumps.

He said Iraqis should have more control of their future - including responsibility for drafting a constitution and control of oil revenues.

Finally, Clark would create a new Atlantic Charter that would stipulate that although the United States will not give up the right to act alone, working together with European allies should be the first option.

On the Net:

http://www.clark04.com

Copyright 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved.


COMMENTARY POST SCRIPT
I say all the above things knowing about half a thousand things that are about to be said to me.
1. Social history: Liberty, Fraternity and Equality sounds like something I have read somewhere else.
2. The most important military battle in my nation's history (US) was fought between the British Navy and the French Navy. The French navy won (naval siege of Yorktown) and voilla! A Nation Is Born.
3 Napolean was bada$$
4. If there had been one twelfth of the amount of guys in the Maquis on June 5th as their were on June 7th, the Maquis would have outnumbered the Waffen SS by 2 to 1.

Caribou Kid
11-06-2003, 09:20 AM
Dude, first, as an Aussie, let me say "nice one, mate" for your recognition of our contribution. It ain't much, buddy,but it's all we can spare. :)

Now, it might seem a little odd for a foreigner to comment on a potential democratic presidential candidate (try saying that three times quickly!), but from my distant POV, let me say this about General Clark;

I trust him more than Jet Jockey George. I see in Wesley Clark a man who can lead and organize chaos and bedlam into a semblance of order and relative calm.He Has definately got the "been there done that" t-shirts to prove it, too, I reckon. The same could not be said for the C-in-C.

Besides, This guy Clark has Cojones. Brass ones. Particularly when compared to, oh, say, Rev. Al Sharpton, for example. But we won't go there.....Incidentally, Colin Powell is also another guy who has gone the hard yards, but has now sadly transmogrified into a quasi-political creature. In Desert Storm, He made Stormin' Norman look like a little rotund fireplug. Now, he's a...suit. (blech!)

I wonder, as a matter of curiosity, if any of them still run a three miler? Do flag Generals and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs still gotta pass the Run/sit-ups/qualify on the rifle range?(can anyone say "5.56 pencil holes"? p-) ) Anyone still remember George W. doing the White House staff run? That even made the front page Down Under :| ...Oh well, at least he isnt gonna pull a Breznhev or Andropov on us. Think The President cracked 25 minutes for a 5k, if memory serves..Not too shabby for someone like him, I suppose.

Erik
11-06-2003, 10:27 AM
Lot's of things connecting Chechnya and Iraq. Invaded (both because of oil) and invading forces have failed to restore any kind of order. When order can't be restored by invading force the solution is to create a local police force (militia) to work along with invading force.

Surely the coalition will get lots of eager militia men to assist them but this just makes things worse, iraq could slide into to this civil war"ish" state where iraqis are whacking the invaders and also their own people. Weapons, ammo and equipment will not be the problem for guerillas, remember that the Iraqi army "vanished", the army or it's equipment was not 'deleted' during the Kuwait-Baghdad GP.

Few things anyway make this Iraq crisis a bit easier compared to chechnya, No throat cutting, mutilating or torturing of enemies. (or at least not so open as it is in chechnya) How would the US (and it's citizens) react if we would see the same kind of movie clips as we can see from chechnya?

Anyway, this iraqi crisis looks to be getting harder and harder and time will tell what kind of methods and actions are needed to get Iraq even moderately safe and humane place to life. One thing is for sure, Iraq is at the edge of civil war, already it's iraqis killing iraqis.

There was this comical drawing in one of our weekly magazines, I'll try to describe it.

Generals and politicians are looking at a map of iraq and on the map the are these texts "political riots", "guerilla attacks", "hostile territory" etc. One of the men watching the map says "This country needs a dictator"

I think this was quite funny, if something funny can be found out of this conflict.

Guttorm
11-06-2003, 10:43 AM
Well... I think it alle "reminds" me of the German invasions i Europe on some levels. (No... I'm not calling the US nazis)
They (Nazis) Also had trouble restoring peace after invasions of countryes, so they recruited locals to help them... These locals were kindly enough hung as traitors when the war was over.

I think that if US pulls out too early, somekind of priest rule will be instated in IRAQ and everyone that helped the US will be killed...
You all know what kind of thouhgts the priest rulers of IRAN has about the US, and western lifestyles.

It's what I'm afraid of...

I think this country needs MAJOR help from a coalission of countrys, if it's EVER going to be a democracy...
It's going to take awhile.

usa320
11-06-2003, 03:28 PM
F|2e|\|(|-|.


rofl rofl