Who Won The Yom Kippur War (1973)?

[Sayeret]

Who do you think won that war?

[walford]

Objective: Destroy Israel. Objective failed. Foiling such destruction is akin to averting an attempt on your life. You don't win something, you just avoid losing it.

Given that the Israeli victory did not convince the Arabs to stop trying to destroy her, the '73 war was a skirmish in an ongoing battle that continues.

[James]

Israel is still around.

[Freibier]

Israel, fair and square. Egypt and Syria got their asses kicked big time

[IAF]

Objective: Destroy Israel. Objective failed.

The objective of the war was not annihilation...

The egyptians and syrians started the war not to destroy israel, knowing full well they can't. It was to avenge their utter humiliation during the 6-day war and regain back the sinai and golan heights

To them the fact that they managed to catch the israelis by total surprise was a kind of victory itself. From their point of view their honor was redeemed - ie, if you consider the ability the overwhelm lightly armed israeli units guarding thinly defended lines a great victory. However credit must go to the egyptian military leadership for their planning and execution of the attack

On the other hand, the israeli leadership made their nation pay dearly for their complacency and arrogance (as a result of the 6-day war) that blinded them to warning signs of an impending invasion

For more insights, do encourage you tocheck out the truly splendid book "Yom Kippur War: Epic encounter that transformed the middle east" by Abraham Rabinovich

[Palmach]

On the battlefield IDF has won fair and squar. Politically Egypt has won. Syria lost all around.

[walford]

The objective of the war was not annihilation...The egyptians and syrians started the war not to destroy israel, knowing full well they can't. It was to avenge their utter humiliation during the 6-day war and regain back the sinai and golan heightsThat was the tactical objective, but they certainly would not have stopped there if they could have gotten more. By that time, most of the UN was openly against Israel, which was seen increasingly in the West as a cause for unneccessary Middle Eastern tension. If Israel were conquered and Arabized, many would have breathed a sigh of relief. As exasperated as many were by the increasing international terrorism that was occurring [which was tacitly blamed on Israel's existence], I doubt even the US would have intervened.

To them the fact that they managed to catch the israelis by total surprise was a kind of victory itself. From their point of view their honor was redeemed - ie, if you consider the ability the overwhelm lightly armed israeli units guarding thinly defended lines a great victory. However credit must go to the egyptian military leadership for their planning and execution of the attack

On the other hand, the israeli leadership made their nation pay dearly for their complacency and arrogance (as a result of the 6-day war) that blinded them to warning signs of an impending invasion...I wish I could find a link to the narrative, but one story I heard was the IDF was becoming increasingly concerned about Egyptian & Syrian military buildups and threatening troop movements prior to the war. In a discussion of this, Kissenger warned Golda Meir that if the IDF pre-emptively attacked these countries again, the US may abandon Israel altogether. Thus Israel was forced to wait until the first blows came and hope she could survive them and counterstrike.

[S'13]

The egyptians and syrians started the war not to destroy israel, knowing full well they can't. It was to avenge their utter humiliation during the 6-day war and regain back the sinai and golan heights


Did they avenge that humiliation?

In their own minds, yes. To the majority of the world, no.

The Six Day War is what brought Egypt (or at least Sadat) to the understanding that Israel can't be erased off the face of the Earth.

As for the stratgic goals, recapturing the Sinai and Golan Heights.
Egypt did hold a small strip of land on the eastern bank of the Suez, at the price of having the IDF on the western bank (holding a huge bulge of land) 101km from Cairo and the Egyptian Third Army besieged.

On the Syrian front Israel completely pushed the Syrian army out of the G.H and advance deep into Syria itself (untill it was 40km from Damascus).

[GrimReaper]

Objective: Destroy Israel. Objective failed.

The objective of the war was not annihilation...

The egyptians and syrians started the war not to destroy israel, knowing full well they can't. It was to avenge their utter humiliation during the 6-day war and regain back the sinai and golan heights

To them the fact that they managed to catch the israelis by total surprise was a kind of victory itself. From their point of view their honor was redeemed - ie, if you consider the ability the overwhelm lightly armed israeli units guarding thinly defended lines a great victory. However credit must go to the egyptian military leadership for their planning and execution of the attack

On the other hand, the israeli leadership made their nation pay dearly for their complacency and arrogance (as a result of the 6-day war) that blinded them to warning signs of an impending invasion

For more insights, do encourage you tocheck out the truly splendid book "Yom Kippur War: Epic encounter that transformed the middle east" by Abraham Rabinovich
Egypt's battle plans never included the capture of the entire Sini.

[Sayeret]

Imo Israel won because they survived and Syria and Jordan's goal was the total annihilation of Israel, which they were unable to accomplish.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I say the Yom Kippur war ended without any decisive outcome. The israeli counter-offensive in the north had been stopped. And in the south the egyptian army was put in a difficult position, but in no way defeated (i'm not saying it couldn't have happened, had the US and USSR not intervened).

As for the objectives of the war:

Egypt: On the strategic level, to change the unacceptable status quo, whereby israel saw no real need to negotiate about anything, confident of their own superiority.

This would be done by crossing the suez canal, and stick to the east side unerneath their SAM umbrella.

Syria: Recapturing the golan heights, and probably go even further (hoping to neutralize israel perhaps?).

Unfortunately for the syrians, they didn't know that egypt wouldn't venture out of their bridgehead, thereby leaving israel to concentrate there forces on syria first.

Israel: Win a quick and decisive victory in a very short time, with minimum costs in money and casualties.


I would say that Egypt very much achieved what they set out to get.

[UoUo]

HA? i say Israel on the 101km on the road to cairo....clear win.

[EvanL]

At the start it looked like Israel was gonna lose, but they came right back and defeated all the invaders advances.

[IAF]

Egypt's battle plans never included the capture of the entire Sini.

i stand corrected. The initial military objective was very limited

[GrimReaper]

Egypt's battle plans never included the capture of the entire Sini.

i stand corrected. The initial military objective was very limited
btw Shazly's book is also a very good book on the egyptian perspective.

[KB]

Tactically-Israel won by any measure. However, Arab battlefield performance improved immeasurably over 1967.

Strategically-Tie. The performance of the Syrian and Egyptian militaries redeemed Arab honor in the eyes of many in the Arab world. The war helped Sadat recognize he could not defeat Israel militarily. The outcome of the war directly led to the Camp David agreement, massive US economic assistance for Egypt and the withdrawal of Israeli forces and return of Sinai to Egypt. In Anwar Sadat, Israel gained a trusted and courageous partner with whom to negotiate. Unfortunately his reapproachment with Israel led to Egypt's ostracism by much of the Arab world and ultimately Sadat's assassination.

[IAF]

I wish I could find a link to the narrative, but one story I heard was the IDF was becoming increasingly concerned about Egyptian & Syrian military buildups and threatening troop movements prior to the war. In a discussion of this, Kissenger warned Golda Meir that if the IDF pre-emptively attacked these countries again, the US may abandon Israel altogether. Thus Israel was forced to wait until the first blows came and hope she could survive them and counterstrike.

Perhaps that was based on kissinger's strategy was to let israel get ahead but with it's "nose bloodied in the process" so as to force them to return to the peace process. But kissinger understimated the fercocity and momentum of the surprise attack. Only when israelis were desperately running out of ammo after three days that arms re-supply commenced.

Source: "Secret War against the Jews"by Loftus & Aarons

[IAF]

On the battlefield IDF has won fair and squar. Politically Egypt has won. Syria lost all around.

Yup..syrians also got played out by their egyptian brothers

Syrian's participation in the war hinged on egypt's move to re-claim the entire sinai. In rabinovich's book, sadat promised assad that he would make a move for the sinai passes in the opening move - while assad wld simultaneously make a grab for the heights. It was assad's understanding that the egyptians, once re-grouped after the 1st phase, would proceed to seize the rest of the sinai - thereby preventing an israeli counterattack on the syrians

Assad's real objective: simply seize & establish a foothold on the eastbank of the canal and jolt the superpowers in forcing israel to a peace process - ie comply with UN resolution 242 where it has to forfeit its territorial gains from the six-day war

Hmm.. in light of the above, my question now is this: Why didn't sadat communicate this 242 resolution strategem with assad? A limited military but decisive attack would most certainly have prevented the greater loss of lives and destruction to their armies

[Palmach]

I say the Yom Kippur war ended without any decisive outcome. The israeli counter-offensive in the north had been stopped. And in the south the egyptian army was put in a difficult position, but in no way defeated (i'm not saying it couldn't have happened, had the US and USSR not intervened).

I am not sure which Yom Kippur war you are talking about, but your discription of the situation by the end of the conflic is way off. Syrian army was in a poor shape, with most of its first and second line formations bloodied and in various states of dissarray, most being unable to maintain operational activity due to material and personel losses. Expeditionary forces, aside from the Jordanians, proved to be a disappointment. In short, Syrian has been knocked out of the war. The Israeli offensive never had any objective to proceed past the Golan - as soon as any kind of organized resistance has been encountered, the offensive was halted to release and additional division for the Southern front. This is not "Syrians stoping an israeli offensive", this is "Israelis stopping their own offensive after its objectives have been obtained."

As far as the south goes, the egyptian army was just that - defeated. The 3rd army was surrounded, its lines of communications severed, its AA umbrella lost, and water, ammunition and gas in short supply (roughly 4 days). 2nd army had over-extended lines of communications and no AA. Neither army retained any attack capabilities, be it against the Israeli bridgehead, the blocking forces, or the eastern bank. Israelis had 3 armored divisions on the eastern bank, with another one coming from the Golan. It is a check and mate situation for the egyptians and they knew it.

[Flagg]

In my opinion Israel clearly won the war militarily......but it was a war that was completely unnecessary.

2 memos sent by Lt. Benjamin Siman-Tov, an Israeli MI officer, on October 1st and 3rd were supressed by his chain of command warning of an attack based on many threat indicators(he was later immediately promoted once this was brought to light).

Israel was also notified by US Intelligence 10 days prior to the conflict that hostilities appeared imminent but chose to ignore the warning corresponding with it's own supressed intelligence.

The 2 most effective weapons systems brought to bear by Israel's opponents were the SAGGER and the SA6.......which destroyed MANY Israeli aircraft and tanks.

After the conflict it was learned Israel already held at it's disposal the technical intelligence necessary to develop countermeasures to these systems but for whatever reason decided not to until after sustaining significant casualties.

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback this conflict 30+ years later......but it's easy to see how it could have been pre-empted.

In failing to pre-empt the attack against it, I believe Israel lost as it's particular situation does not allow for a single mistake of this magnitude to occur without risk to its existence.

[Palmach]

Hmm.. in light of the above, my question now is this: Why didn't sadat communicate this 242 resolution strategem with assad? A limited military but decisive attack would most certainly have prevented the greater loss of lives and destruction to their armies

Sadat did not communicate his real intentions even to the majority of his General Staff. Most of egyptian senior officers, not to mention the rank and file troops, operated on the assumption that the war's objectives were to "liberate" all of the captured territories and, possibly, to eliminate Israel. Further, there were long standing political differences between Sadat and the syrian ba'asists, he had nothing to loose by screwing them over and everythig to loose should his plan for a limited confrontation come to light.

[mailmannz]

In failing to pre-empt the attack against it, I believe Israel lost as it's particular situation does not allow for a single mistake of this magnitude to occur without risk to its existence.

Using the same logic one could say that Germany won WWII because the allies, inspite of all the warnings, failed to counter German aggression.

Regards

Mailman

[km5]

Israel won but at a heavy price. The massive tank battles of Kuneitra alone wiped out an entire IDF 2nd armor brigade. A good book to read on this war is "The Eve of Destruction" by Howard Blum

[S'13]

The massive tank battles of Kuneitra alone wiped out an entire IDF 2nd armor brigade.

Number of tanks lost in the Yom Kippur War

Egypt: Around 1,000 (out of 2,200 prior to the war)

Syria: Around 1,150 (out of 1,650 prior to the war)

Israel: Around 400 (out of 2,100 prior to the war)

Source:...Not on a Silver Platter A History of Israel 1900-2000 (by prof Jehuda Wallach), pages 110,122.

[S'13]

http://www.mideastweb.org/syriawar1973.gif

http://www.mideastweb.org/egyptwar1973.gif

[ArmedPacifist]

I think it was a mutual victory for both Israel and Egypt.


Israel needed to lose their image of being invincible to the arab world in order to bring about peace and the Yom Kippur war did just that to it. They went to the peace table and gained peace with Egypt, Israel's biggest threat.

Egypt also won a great political victory reclaiming nearly all of the territory it lost during the 6 day war and also started to receive massive ammounts of aid from the United States.

The only country that in my opinion lost in the war was Syria, which gained nothing for all of it's dead.