ww2 Finland lots of pictures

[radon]

Hello. Images are from here. Pictures from Uuno Laukka. This guy made lots of other pictures also after the war. I have some here. The interface is old , so press the link on the right. Pressing the small image is no use. Unofrtunately they are not sorted or the date explained very well. War images go onto 8000 somehing. Some of these images are from west Finland. The figthing in ww2 in Finland had many stops , and the photographer was more on the back front all the time. Pictures from east Finland and many from udssr. He made alot of pictures of generals and other high ranking officers. Some germans there too.

I maybe show too many images but I have left so many out already . Hope they dont run out of bandwith

I hope the finnish war museum puts all the on the internet sometime. Altough some of the more graphical ones are still? secret.

http://oulu.ouka.fi/ppm/laukka/index.htm
http://oulu.ouka.fi/ppm/laukka/tekstit/5761.htm


http://oulu.ouka.fi/ppm/laukka/kuvat/6/5840.jpg
View from the front

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Russian pows
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Russian pows
http://oulu.ouka.fi/ppm/laukka/kuvat/7/6585.jpg

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Russian pows
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destroyed by germans
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russian pows going home
http://oulu.ouka.fi/ppm/laukka/kuvat/7/6921.jpg
These women lived on russian terittory
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excercise
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excercise
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excercise
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Karelia then in Russia like today
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War is over
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Himmler as a guest
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The enemy must be somewhere
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Soviet Hawker Hurricane MK2A

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Germans
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[Shar.]

Nice pics! :)

[defmin]

Amazing! Those pics are very good. Excellent post, radon! woot

[Jani.R]

Great photos! woot woot

[tvi]

Thanks for you radon !!!

Russian prisoners looks so happy, reason is...

[EvanL]

Is this the war that Finland gave the Soviets a severe pounding? Tom of Finland style?

[Jani.R]

Is this the war that Finland gave the Soviets a severe pounding? Tom of Finland style?


There seems to be pictures from both wars, winter war and continuation.

[defmin]

Is this the war that Finland gave the Soviets a severe pounding? Tom of Finland style?


There seems to be pictures from both wars, winter war and continuation.
Well, the Soviets got severe pounding in both wars. :D

[scrybe]

Very cool pics. Thanks for posting.

[bloddyaxe]

Really nice pictures.

[un_swe]

Great pics!!!
My wifes grandfather fought in both the Finnish wars, unfortunatly he never wanted to talk about it when he lived.And the only thing that was recovered after his death was a few pics and memorobilia and his medals.
When his old house was renovated 2 years ago they found his old uniform torn into pieces and hidden under the floor.I will scan these pics next time i go to Finland so i can post them.

un_swe

[bas]

Great pictures!

[wulfstan]

Excuse my ignorance, but the Finns fought the Soviets in just prior to their envolvement in WW2 (and kicked their asses), right, but then what happened in relation to the Germans? Did they fight the Nazis? Fight with the Nazis? With against the Nazis with the Soviets? I'm confused on this one and would appreciate a short history of this from a Finn who knows his stuff....
Thanks.

[defmin]

Excuse my ignorance, but the Finns fought the Soviets in just prior to their envolvement in WW2 (and kicked their asses), right, but then what happened in relation to the Germans? Did they fight the Nazis? Fight with the Nazis? With against the Nazis with the Soviets? I'm confused on this one and would appreciate a short history of this from a Finn who knows his stuff....
Thanks.

1939-1940 The Winter War.
Finns vs Soviets


1941-1944 The Continuation War
Finns+Germans vs. Soviets


1944-1945 The War of Lappland
Finns vs. Germans

[Jippo]

Excuse my ignorance, but the Finns fought the Soviets in just prior to their envolvement in WW2 (and kicked their asses), right, but then what happened in relation to the Germans? Did they fight the Nazis? Fight with the Nazis? With against the Nazis with the Soviets? I'm confused on this one and would appreciate a short history of this from a Finn who knows his stuff....
Thanks.

1939 Soviet Union attacked Finland with the purpose of invading the country. After severe fighting they were stopped and peace followed, but with very harsh terms for Finns. E.g. 1/8 of the land area (best lands) were to be given to Russians.

1941 Finns joined German attack against Russia to retaliate the previous war after Helsinki had been bombed. Fighting alongside Germany Finland never was part of the axis nations, but worked towards a common goal. Soviets started major assault 1944 again trying to invade Finland, but were again stopped in one of the major battles of WW2.

1944 Peace terms included driving off Germans stationed in Lapland Northern Finland, and thus war with Germans followed. It ended when the German forces left during the following winter.


-jippo

[Oddball]

Great photos. Thanks.:D


http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/finland/summary.html

[machupichu]

it seems finns share sense of loyalty with italians :|

anyway, nice pics

[wulfstan]

Thanks guys.
Compared to the rest of Europe you have a confused and chaotic history when it comes to WW2. Interesting tho, i'd love to go there sometime.

[Jippo]

it seems finns share sense of loyalty with italians :|

anyway, nice pics

Pffft!

Suggest deeper studies before making idiotic comments.


-jippo

[Jani.R]

it seems finns share sense of loyalty with italians :|

anyway, nice pics


When its matter of survival, f*ck loaylty.

[machupichu]

it seems finns share sense of loyalty with italians :|

anyway, nice pics

Pffft!

Suggest deeper studies before making idiotic comments.


-jippo
deeper studies of what?
what makes finland different from italy? when odds changed they both turned against their ally to not share the losers burden.

[Jippo]

deeper studies of what?
what makes finland different from italy? when odds changed they both turned against their ally to not share the losers burden.

Deeper studies in WW2 history, of course.

To start with, Germany was not an ally. Term is called co-belligerence. Finland was not part of Axis-nations, and it did not fight for any other reason than independence and even the offensive part of the war was aimed to recapture lost land in the year 1940.

Germany fought the same enemy and sold weapons to Finland, and thats it...


-jippo

[machupichu]

lol, i just read about the finnish-german cooperation at that time and i can tell you the finns acted even more dishonorably and deceitfully than i ever thought. read about june 44 and how finns desperatly needed germanys help and swore to not let germany down and not make peace with russia. what a bunch of traitors.

[Millen]

verry nice collection thx for sharing

[hughdotoh]

splendid pics!

now i could put those 1/35 suomi smg's to good use. by the way, what color uniform did the finns use in the war? did they have any different color apart from the feldgrau used by the finnish volunteers in germany?

[Elmo]

lol, i just read about the finnish-german cooperation at that time and i can tell you the finns acted even more dishonorably and deceitfully than i ever thought. read about june 44 and how finns desperatly needed germanys help and swore to not let germany down and not make peace with russia. what a bunch of traitors.

I agree. Finnish propaganda hasn't really made much difference between the Winter War and the Continuation War. Both are seen as heroic and just wars for survival, yet the motives behind joining Hitler's plunge into east are more than questionable. Besides, what's the difference between an "ally" and "co-belligerent", anyways? What if Germany had won? Finland would have become a proud and active member of the Third Reich.

[OldRecon]

I think this pic says it all:
http://oulu.ouka.fi/ppm/laukka/kuvat/2/1932.jpg
How young are some of these lads :roll:. Shure not above 20.

[Zero The Hero]

I agree. Finnish propaganda hasn't really made much difference between the Winter War and the Continuation War. Both are seen as heroic and just wars for survival, yet the motives behind joining Hitler's plunge into east are more than questionable. Besides, what's the difference between an "ally" and "co-belligerent", anyways? What if Germany had won? Finland would have become a proud and active member of the Third Reich.

Hardly. Finnish administration was not very fond of the Nazis and Finlands policies were never very parallel to those of Nazi-Germany.

Nevertheless, the War of Lappland isn't anything to be proud of. The german withdrawal from northern Finland was, in fact, intended to be a peaceful operation by both Finns and Germans. However, due to Soviet protest, Finns staged mock military pressure on the Germans, who in turn burned everything in their wake. Only marginal efforts were made to actually oust the Germans, and therefore casualties were minimal on both sides.
All in all, the War of Lappland was rather an operation to humor the Soviet delegation than to kick out the remaining Germans.

[Jippo]

lol, i just read about the finnish-german cooperation at that time and i can tell you the finns acted even more dishonorably and deceitfully than i ever thought. read about june 44 and how finns desperatly needed germanys help and swore to not let germany down and not make peace with russia. what a bunch of traitors.


:)

Read more then.


-jippo

[Jippo]

I will help you a bit here Machupichu. Here is a recent study about the Ryti-Ribbentrop agreement, which was the closest thing to being in alliance with Nazi Germany. Note the Marshal Keitel's comments about the agreement on Ryti's resignation.

From: http://www.answers.com/topic/ryti-ribbentrop-agreement

"Ryti-Ribbentrop Agreement

The Ryti-Ribbentrop letter of agreement (Finnish: Ryti-Ribbentrop sopimus) of June 26, 1944, signifies the closest to an alliance Finland and Nazi Germany came during World War II. According to the agreement, Risto Ryti, then President of Finland, undertook not to conclude peace in the Continuation War with the Soviet Union unless in agreement with Nazi Germany. The deal was the result of negotiations with Joachim von Ribbentrop, the Third Reich's foreign minister, who surprisingly had arrived in Helsinki at June 22. The letter was given after considerations with Marshal Mannerheim and the war cabinet, but was expressed as Ryti's personal undertaking, deliberately avoiding the form of a binding treaty between the governments of Finland and Nazi Germany, that had required involvement of the Parliament of Finland.

The agreement was obsoleted as Ryti resigned on July 31, 1944, and was succeeded as president by Mannerheim. Mannerheim, when queried by the head of the German headquarters, OKW, Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel, informed the Germans that he did not consider him or Finland bound by Ryti's concession. Within six weeks, Finland had concluded an armistice with the Soviet Union. In accordance with the armistice conditions, the Lapland War was commenced to evacuate the Wehrmacht from Northern Finland by force.

In retrospect, it has turned out that the Ryti-Ribbentrop agreement was less significant for the outcome of the war than it appeared in June 1944. The Wehrmacht had already delivered critical anti-tank weapons and sent a significant air-force detachment to support the defence on the Karelian isthmus. In fact, all necessary military aid was already in Finland or en route when Ribbentrop started pressuring president Ryti; and the German diplomacy and military headquarters seemingly acted independently of each other. Before the Soviet summer offensive of 1944, Finland's army was estimated to bind at least 26 divisions, 5 brigades and 16 regiments of the Red Army. The Wehrmacht had every reason to utilize the Finns as sort of a rear-troop, still strong and still very dedicated their task to defend their homeland from a Communist invasion, while the Germans retreated and evacuated Russia — and soon Balticum.

The German foreign ministry at Wilhelmstrasse, on the other hand, wanted to exploit Finland's precarious situation after the fall of Vyborg to connect military aid to political concessions. Ryti and Mannerheim were not able to know the internal balance between OKW and Wilhelmstrasse; and the stakes were too high to risk that Ribbentrop's ministry could effectively pressure the Wehrmacht to withdraw its support from Finland.

Historical background

Finland's 20th century history had been rather turbulent up to the Continuation War. Attempted russification of Finland, and then the Russian Revolutions, had inverted the previously good Russo-Finnish relations. The Civil War in Finland, its bloody aftermath, the Åland Crisis, expansionist rhetoric and military expeditions into Russian Karelia, ardent anti-Communism, and the semi-fascist Lapua Movement's failed Mäntsälä Rebellion with connections to the highest levels in Finland had together resulted in cool and hardly improved Finno-Scandinavian relations. The attempted cooperation between the border states to the Soviet Union had failed. Residual pro-German sentiments, from Imperial Germany's critical support during the Civil War, was dented by the Nazis' Machtübernahme. Finland had democratic traditions dating back to at least the 16th century, and after the failed rebellions by left-wingers and right-wingers, the Finns were rather alienated by the brutal sides of the "New Germany" — and the Herrenrasse ideology did not approve of Finns.

The Abyssinia crisis of 1935 marked the end of the inter-war peace build on the League of Nations; and Finland was again threatened by being left alone with her big expansionist Russian neighbour. Under PM Kivimäki Finland's foreign policy was redirected towards Scandinavia and the neutralist Oslo group. Finland's aim was protection by belonging to a group of smaller nations that couldn't be mistaken for aggressive, but that had a common interest to withstand foreign aggression. For credibility reasons, this changed foreign policy was deemed necessary to be followed up by increased diplomatic distance to Nazi Germany and a rapprochement to the Soviet Union.

The new Scandinavian line in Finland's foreign policy was not a failure. A substantial effect was an adaptation of Finnish munitions to that produced in Sweden, which in effect may have been critical for Finland's ability to resist when the Soviet Union invaded in the Winter War. During the war, the Swedes had provided large grants and credits, munitions, provisions, sympathy and almost ten thousand voluntaries to the Winter War. However, the Finns had expected one more critical contribution: regular troops in significant numbers. The military plans were ready, but the political support in Stockholm was insufficient. Swedish suspicions against Finland's possibly expansionist goals, as often and loudly expressed by the Academic Karelia Society and related opinions, were still too strong. Sweden's decision not to send regular troops was in Finland after the harsh Moscow Peace Treaty commonly perceived as a proof of the Scandinavian policy's ultimate failure.

As both the Soviet Union and a strong public opinion in Finland disapproved of closer Finno-Swedish relations, Finland again had to redirect her foreign policy: this time towards protection by Nazi Germany (again executed by Kivimäki, now ambassador to Berlin), which after agreement on troop transitations and munitions import led to the stationing of strong Wehrmacht troops in the northern half of Finland in the run-up to Operation Barbarossa. Three days after the German attack on other fronts, half-a-dozen towns and cities in Finland were attacked by Soviet air-forces, the Continuation War began, and soon Finnish and German troops entered Soviet territory from Finland. The Nazi leadership persistently tried to formalize the Finno-German relation into an alliance, while the Finns by the Sword Scabbard Declaration had declared their goals as limited — though offensive and expansionist — to East Karelia, which was accomplished before the winter of 1941, and felt no need to an disadvantageous alliance.

As Nazi Germany's war fortune waned, Finland tried to reach a peace with the Soviet Union, which wasn't popular in Berlin, and hence food and munition shipments from the Third Reich to Finland were discontinued in March 1944. Finland, thus enfeebled, was terrified by the Soviet summer offensive of 1944, that was coordinated with D-day in France and in few weeks resulted in a Finnish evacuation of the Karelian Isthmus. On June 22 another result was Ribbentrop's unexpected arrival in Helsinki to finally rein in Finland into the Axis. He had little success.

Translation

The Finnish language word sopimus has a wide scope of denotations ranging from settlement, agreement, contract to pact, and treaty. In this context, agreement or contract may be the most fitting.

Controversy

The issue of what the Ryti-Ribbentrop Agreement was, "in reality", remains somewhat controversial, as also the issue of whether Finland's co-belligerence with Nazi Germany "in reality" was a concealed alliance, and whether the Continuation War "in reality" was a Finnish war of aggression although initiated as a defensive war against a Soviet pre-emptive attack.

Much of the controversies goes back to a Soviet perception of all of the Finnish politicians, except the illegal Communists, and much of the Finnish society, as one way or another contaminated by that "Fascism" that according to Finnish refugees in Russia had won the Civil War in Finland. While the Finns themselves regarded Fascism as a fringe phenomenon in Finland, further discredited by the Mäntsälä Rebellion, in stark opposition to the deeprooted Finnish democracy, the Soviet leadership, intelligence service and propaganda interpreted Finnish events in the spirit of the dogmatic conviction that most leading Finns, including prominent Social Democrats, were fascists in disguise. As the Soviet Union was an Allied at the time, Soviet views have also been unusually influential on French and English language historians. Also in Scandinavia, this view has gained some popularity. After the war, the Communist Party of Finland was legalized, and Soviet world views and perceptions were often courteously reported in Finnish news papers without too obvious debunking.

Reference

Dr. Markku Jokisipilä has recently researched this area and written his doctorate thesis "Aseveljiä vai liittolaisia? Suomi, Hitlerin Saksan liittosopimusvaatimukset ja Rytin-Ribbentropin-sopimus." ("Brothers in arms or allies? Finland, alliance demands from Hitler's Germany and the Ryti-Ribbentrop-agreement.") on this issue."


-jippo

[radon]

War in Lapland :
Because of soviet pressure
Small casualties compared to war before
Germans burned Lapland

Even when taking in account the casualties done by Finns to the Germans , Finland still benefited the Germans cause by defending against soviets.

edit : Remember Germans were real backstabbers of small nations compared to Finnish people.

[FFanatic]

Great pics! :)
Hadn't seen most of them before.

[Elmo]

Well, as professor Heikki Ylikangas has recently argued, Finland unofficially
went under the Nazi umbrella already in February 1940, and the truce was negotiated based on an unofficial promise by German high command to help Finland get back the territories lost. (Hermann Goering promised this to a Sweden based contact (called Kivimaki) working unofficially for the Social Democrat Government).

Finnish High Command had to be persuaded into peace, they would have continued to fight. Namely Sweden made a great scapegoat for this truce, because the Social Democrats were afraid they were to blame for giving up too easily, as it was impossible to reveal what had happened in the cabinets.

Ylikangas has found a lot to back up these claims by going through Väinö Tanner's archives.

I'm sick of all the glorified nonsense about innocent Finns being attacked by a huge monster. That kind of propaganda served the Western powers during the Winter War but there is no reason playing the same record over and over again. Perhaps there were no other option than war in 1939 but the Continuation War...well, tens of thousands got violently killed and Finland needs to look into mirror and face the facts - was it really necessary?

edit: changed Kivimaki's title from "diplomat" to "contact"

[Jippo]

I'm sick of all the glorified nonsense about innocent Finns being attacked by a huge monster. That kind of propaganda served the Western powers during the Winter War but there is no reason playing the same record over and over again. Perhaps there were no other option than war in 1939 but the Continuation War...well, tens of thousands got violently killed and Finland needs to look into mirror and face the facts - was it really necessary?


Well you have your opinion. In the same way we can ask the following:

Was it in fact morally right to attack in attempt to reclaim 1940 lost land and property?

Would Finland be involved in other type of continuation war by Soviet attack if it hadn't attacked first?

My answer to both questions is yes, so we obviously disagree to maximum extent in this question. I would also like to say, that Stalin would have tried to get rid of Finns a second time anyway, and if Finland would have used different strategy many things could have been different and many more lives would have been lost.


-jippo

[Elmo]

Well you have your opinion. In the same way we can ask the following:

Was it in fact morally right to attack in attempt to reclaim 1940 lost land and property?

Would Finland be involved in other type of continuation war by Soviet attack if it hadn't attacked first?

My answer to both questions is yes, so we obviously disagree to maximum extent in this question. I would also like to say, that Stalin would have tried to get rid of Finns a second time anyway, and if Finland would have used different strategy many things could have been different and many more lives would have been lost.


-jippo

In fact I don't know what to think. All I know is these things need to be objectively reviewed again and again in the following decades, when the generation which saw the horrors of WWII has passed away. I don't want to sound disrespectful -my both grandfathers were there and I respect them and every single person who suffered.

You could be right but your views are a perfect example of the if not official, but most commonly heard version, reproduced time and time again in literature, movies and by common people in their conversations.

[Jippo]

You could be right but your views are a perfect example of the if not official, but most commonly heard version, reproduced time and time again in literature, movies and by common people in their conversations.

Being common doesn't mean it is wrong. In fact I may be wrong, but we are allowed to have our opinions.

And being critical of the common opinion is always good. :)


-jippo

[Thor]

I'm sick of all the glorified nonsense about innocent Finns being attacked by a huge monster. That kind of propaganda served the Western powers during the Winter War but there is no reason playing the same record over and over again. Perhaps there were no other option than war in 1939 but the Continuation War...well, tens of thousands got violently killed and Finland needs to look into mirror and face the facts - was it really necessary?
Are you plain stupid? Small Finland was attacked by the monstrous Soviet Union. The land Finland lost in the first war was by every right claimed back when the tide turned.

[defmin]

I'm sick of all the glorified nonsense about innocent Finns being attacked by a huge monster. That kind of propaganda served the Western powers during the Winter War but there is no reason playing the same record over and over again. Perhaps there were no other option than war in 1939 but the Continuation War...well, tens of thousands got violently killed and Finland needs to look into mirror and face the facts - was it really necessary?
Are you plain stupid? Small Finland was attacked by the monstrous Soviet Union. The land Finland lost in the first war was by every right claimed back when the tide turned.
WORD!

[Kilgor]

it seems finns share sense of loyalty with italians :|

anyway, nice pics

You forgot romania

[Elmo]

Are you plain stupid? Small Finland was attacked by the monstrous Soviet Union. The land Finland lost in the first war was by every right claimed back when the tide turned.

Depends on what right you base this claim. Who has the right to order people take up arms and join a country driven by a master race ideology, in a dash way beyond the pre-1939 borderline? The moment the border was crossed,
the Finns fell of their high horse. And even if one sees nothing wrong with that, my initial question was: "was it necessary?"

They, or should I say we, were lucky the Soviets didn't whack us more than they did in 1944. And the Lapland war? Well, obviosly it had to be done and the German commander should have been wiser and should have retreated
faster. But I can't really blame them for burning Lapland. Just imagine what a regular grunt must have felt.

[radon]

lol, i just read about the finnish-german cooperation at that time and i can tell you the finns acted even more dishonorably and deceitfully than i ever thought. read about june 44 and how finns desperatly needed germanys help and swore to not let germany down and not make peace with russia. what a bunch of traitors.

Just retarded. What value had German agreements??? Germans were big backstabbers of WW2, they went into that business themselves. Lapland war was small and only made for appearances . Continue war with Russia and become part of the Udssr? For what were the first wars then? The overall bodycount was smallest this way. And anyone from the western allies should be quiet about this. Who allied with Udssr and was on the opposing sides just a few years later.



I agree. Finnish propaganda hasn't really made much difference between the Winter War and the Continuation War. Both are seen as heroic and just wars for survival, yet the motives behind joining Hitler's plunge into east are more than questionable. Besides, what's the difference between an "ally" and "co-belligerent", anyways? What if Germany had won? Finland would have become a proud and active member of the Third Reich.

If Germany had won . It depends on how much nazis value Finnish people as a race. Maybe b or c class Reich citizen. If Soviets had occupied Finland it would have been over. No Finnish goverment anymore. Without the Germans it would have come to that. Finnish Goverment survived..



Depends on what right you base this claim. Who has the right to order people take up arms and join a country driven by a master race ideology, in a dash way beyond the pre-1939 borderline? The moment the border was crossed,
the Finns fell of their high horse. And even if one sees nothing wrong with that, my initial question was: "was it necessary?"

Right to survival. Attacking a enemy that gives a **** about borders is wrong since when? Who says the 1939 was justified?

Russians have tried to exterminate and russianize Finland the whole last century. Trusting them to be reasonable and fair would have been a huge mistake.

[Grimmer]

Are you plain stupid? Small Finland was attacked by the monstrous Soviet Union. The land Finland lost in the first war was by every right claimed back when the tide turned.

Depends on what right you base this claim. Who has the right to order people take up arms and join a country driven by a master race ideology, in a dash way beyond the pre-1939 borderline? The moment the border was crossed,
the Finns fell of their high horse. And even if one sees nothing wrong with that, my initial question was: "was it necessary?"

They, or should I say we, were lucky the Soviets didn't whack us more than they did in 1944. And the Lapland war? Well, obviosly it had to be done and the German commander should have been wiser and should have retreated
faster. But I can't really blame them for burning Lapland. Just imagine what a regular grunt must have felt.

Stalin had clear plans to invade&occupy finland. He even had reserved land from siberia to inhabit the 3 million finns.

If finland wouldnt had attacked soviet union to reclaim lost lands, things would have ended much worse. The continuation war played finland enough time for the race to berlin occur. Also hadnt we attacked, the germans would have through finland with our permission or without it.

Would it have been better that finland would have been attacked from south by the germans and from the east by russians? The continuation war was a better choice from the bad options. Besides back then people believed that the Operation Barbaros would have been over in months, as a germans in winners. Luckly things went as they went and after the peace deals, europe had only three capitals that hadnt been invaded. London, Moscow and Helsinki.

About the Lapland war. Without the brave and tough german soldiers and especially brave men from luftwaffe's detachment Kuhlmey who fought with heavy casualties against russains, finland would have fallen. There propably would be no finns in finland today. The remants would be living in siberia like many others after the mass deportations of Stalin.

The lapland war wasnt very heroic, but we didnt have any choice. If we hadnt attacked the russians would have, and that time our army was very weak after years of fighting and another war with the soviets would have been too much.

[Grimmer]

Elmo: About propaganda. Your comments sound like a comments from a communist. Maybe you are one? Your parents were? And even your grandparents fought with the commies in the civil war? A communist is always a communist :bash:

[radon]

I ask myself the same thing about Elmo. Atleast he had a rasta avatar sometimes :roll:

http://dbgw.finlit.fi/fili/bff/298/ylikangas.htm
Heikki Ylikangas

edit: http://www.ylioppilaslehti.fi/2002/020226/isona.html
only in Finnish. This shows more about Ylikangas views. How this has affected his research has to be seen.

[Elmo]

Elmo: About propaganda. Your comments sound like a comments from a communist. Maybe you are one? Your parents were? And even your grandparents fought with the commies in the civil war? A communist is always a communist :bash:

You are kidding, right?

Don't take anything given when it comes to written history. Especially if that history claims there was only one side doing wrong in a war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives. But you can wave the flag and all.

And your "always a communist" -theory based on kinship is lacking. For example most of the communist hardliners of the 1970's came from upper class conservative homes.

[OldRecon]

Are you plain stupid? Small Finland was attacked by the monstrous Soviet Union. The land Finland lost in the first war was by every right claimed back when the tide turned.

Depends on what right you base this claim. Who has the right to order people take up arms and join a country driven by a master race ideology, in a dash way beyond the pre-1939 borderline? The moment the border was crossed,
the Finns fell of their high horse. And even if one sees nothing wrong with that, my initial question was: "was it necessary?"

They, or should I say we, were lucky the Soviets didn't whack us more than they did in 1944. And the Lapland war? Well, obviosly it had to be done and the German commander should have been wiser and should have retreated
faster. But I can't really blame them for burning Lapland. Just imagine what a regular grunt must have felt.

Stalin had clear plans to invade&occupy finland. He even had reserved land from siberia to inhabit the 3 million finns.

If finland wouldnt had attacked soviet union to reclaim lost lands, things would have ended much worse. The continuation war played finland enough time for the race to berlin occur. Also hadnt we attacked, the germans would have through finland with our permission or without it.

Would it have been better that finland would have been attacked from south by the germans and from the east by russians? The continuation war was a better choice from the bad options. Besides back then people believed that the Operation Barbaros would have been over in months, as a germans in winners. Luckly things went as they went and after the peace deals, europe had only three capitals that hadnt been invaded. London, Moscow and Helsinki.

About the Lapland war. Without the brave and tough german soldiers and especially brave men from luftwaffe's detachment Kuhlmey who fought with heavy casualties against russains, finland would have fallen. There propably would be no finns in finland today. The remants would be living in siberia like many others after the mass deportations of Stalin.

The lapland war wasnt very heroic, but we didnt have any choice. If we hadnt attacked the russians would have, and that time our army was very weak after years of fighting and another war with the soviets would have been too much.

The German help to Finland (Luftwaffe missions + delivery of Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck, Sturmgeschutze and Pz IV's in particular) during the endgame phase of the continuation war without a doubt was vital to the survival of Finland as a independent nation.
Yet, perhaps with exception of the initial phase of the Soviet offensive against Finland in '44 that resultet in worryingly quick conquest of Vipuri by Soviet forces, the individual Finnish soldier appears to have fought just as hard as during the Winter war.
Fighting with your backs against the wall may have helped in that.
I for my part know that if the Soviets had come trundling over the border of Norway in a WW-3 scenario I would rather prefer to die on my own soil rather than being dragged away to Siberia.
Yet also without a doubt the stiffening German resistance in front of Berlin also indirectly played a part in the survival of Finland.
So summing up the reasons behind the Survival of Finland post WW-2, I guess one in a sort of way can say it's based on a mix of hard work and to an extent good circumstancial fortune.
I.e. Finland would not have survived on either lucky circumstances alone, or hard fighting alone.