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wholagun
11-08-2003, 05:41 AM
TIKRIT, Iraq (CNN) -- Hours after six U.S. soldiers were killed when a Black Hawk helicopter was apparently shot down, U.S. forces pounded the area near Saddam Hussein's ancestral home of Tikrit with bombs and mortar shells.

Two F-16s flew low over the marshy area and dropped at least two 500-pound bombs near where the helicopter crashed, CNN Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson reported from Tikrit, 110 miles (175 km) north of Baghdad.

Dozens of artillery shells, mortars and howitzers rained down on the area, Robertson said, beginning late Friday and going into early Saturday. (On the Scene: Nic Robertson)

"We're showing a little bit of force tonight and we've got lots of tools at our disposal," said Col. James Hickey of the 4th Armored Division in Tikrit.

The U.S. military said that while its investigation into Friday's Black Hawk crash is "inconclusive," it believes the helicopter was shot down -- possibly by a rocket-propelled grenade.

"We do believe it was brought down by ground fire," said Lt. Col. Steve Russell, Commander 1st Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment.

Maj. Josslyn Aberle, spokeswoman for the 4th Infantry Division, said investigators have determined that a surface-to-air missile was not used.

"But that does not rule out a rocket-propelled grenade," she said, adding that "the results of the investigation are inconclusive" and "we never rule out any possibility."

Two Black Hawks were flying along the marshy banks of the Tigris River near Tikrit when witnesses said one was struck by enemy fire.

The helicopter, carrying passengers from the 101st Airborne Division headquarters in Mosul to the 4th Infantry Division headquarters in Tikrit, smashed into the ground and a trail of black smoke billowed into the sky.

Pentagon sources said the lead helicopter -- the one not harmed -- was carrying a two-star general, Maj. Gen. Thomas Romig, the Army's top lawyer.

Romig, the Judge Advocate General of the Army, is not based in Iraq. He was visiting Iraq on an undisclosed mission. CNN is told he is safe.

A successful attack on a two-star general could have given anti-U.S. insurgents a morale boost.

A near-miss occurred October 26 when Deputy U.S. Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz spent the night at the al Rashid hotel the same night it was hit by rockets. (Full story)

It's impossible to know whether Iraqi insurgents were aware of the high-ranking officials in either incident.

Still, sources said Friday's incident raises troubling questions about whether insurgents knew of the general's whereabouts. Details of his trip were never released publicly.

Black Hawk crash among other violent incidents
The crash comes a day after a somber memorial service for 15 U.S. troops killed when a CH-47 Chinook helicopter went down Sunday in Fallujah in an apparent missile strike. A 16th soldier died Thursday of injuries suffered in the attack, the Pentagon said.

The Defense Department said the soldier, Sgt. Paul F. Fisher, 39, of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, died at a hospital in Germany.

On October 25, rocket-propelled grenades took down a Black Hawk near Tikrit, wounding one soldier.

In further violence Friday, assailants ambushed a U.S. military convoy in the northern city of Mosul, killing one soldier and wounding six, according to the Coalition Press Information Center and the 101st Airborne Division.

Rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire hit the 101st convoy at about 7 a.m. (11 p.m. EST Thursday), a spokesman said.

Also Friday, a U.S. soldier sustained injuries when assailants launched two rocket-propelled grenades at a military convoy in Baghdad, slightly damaging the two U.S. Humvees, eyewitnesses told CNN's Matthew Chance.

Since the war began, 394 U.S. troops have died. Of those, 255 have died after President Bush declared an end to major combat May 1. Thirty-four American troops and one Polish soldier have been killed in the first week of November.

There is no reliable source for Iraqi civilian or combatant casualty figures, either during the period of major combat or after May 1.

The Associated Press reported an estimated 3,240 civilian Iraqi deaths between March 20 and April 20, but the AP said that the figure was based on records of only half of Iraq's hospitals and the actual number was thought to be significantly higher.

Turkish troops in Iraq not a sure thing
Turkey won't send troops to neighboring Iraq to help U.S. forces -- at least not in the near future, a source with the Turkish Foreign Ministry said Friday.

This comes after the Foreign Ministry announced Friday that it will review parliament's decision last month to authorize the deployment of Turkish troops in Iraq.

Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul discussed the issue by phone Thursday with U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell.

There has been strong opposition in Iraq to a troop deployment by some neighboring countries as well as ongoing conflicts between Turkey and the Kurds, who live in southeast Turkey and northern Iraq.

Turkey particularly is concerned over any Kurdish secessionist aspirations. (Full story)

CNN's Dana Bash, Jamie McIntyre, Nic Robertson, Matthew Chance and Barbara Starr contributed to this report.


http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/11/08/sprj.irq.main/index.html

Steve Andrews
11-08-2003, 10:08 AM
"We're showing a little bit of force tonight and we've got lots of tools at our disposal," said Col. James Hickey of the 4th Armored Division in Tikrit.



Great idea....that will solve everything. :roll:

ShotOver
11-08-2003, 10:20 AM
It's about time they struck back with some power.

Blow them all to hell, and let Allah sort them out i say.

usa320
11-08-2003, 11:30 AM
Showing force will solve some problems.

After being ruled under force for so long, force is one of the few things the Iraqis actually understand.

I read that F-16's were dropping MK84's in Empty fields last night just to make some racket and scare the **** outta them militants.

Uncle Sam
11-08-2003, 11:55 AM
Well, It's about Fu<kin' time......!!!

NcDeuce
11-08-2003, 11:59 AM
woot

Argyll
11-08-2003, 12:02 PM
Ya seriously think that bombing an empty field has any impact on these Guerrila's?
A waste of ordnance,and jet fuel,nothing more.
If it was anything like the so called "Shock and Awe" then it was nothing really,as that was nothing short of a media fireworks display,to show the folks back home what new technology could do,it had no military or strategic impact on the war whatsoever,did Saddam surrender did he heck,Billions of dollars wasted money,in the cost of the weapons and the rebuilding of the targets!!......superb business acumen!

96B
11-08-2003, 12:17 PM
Great idea....that will solve everything.

I suppose sitting around holding hands and praying for the best will work better than force...

As I recall "Shock and Awe" was not a pointless media fireworks show, it took out many major military targets and is one reason why the Iraqi Army was literally ran over. It did not have the psychological effect originally planned because an unplanned early strike was initiated at trying to get Sadaam. Had nothing happened before "shock and awe" people would be ****ting their pants because after the first small precision strikes began, everybody knew to expect us soon.

NcDeuce
11-08-2003, 12:23 PM
I believe the rumble and blasts from our bombs will help persuade.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/22/terror.threats/iraq.bomb.jpg

hood
11-08-2003, 12:28 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/media/us_uses_miles.jpg

The Iraqi resistance forces have gotten more brazen in recent days after they realized that we were only using MILES gear and not real bullets. :cantbeli: Kudos to CNN.

Vance
11-08-2003, 12:36 PM
Heh, they changed that pretty quickly, Hood. Maybe they visit this site. :cantbeli:

duck
11-08-2003, 12:48 PM
It's not just because of the Iraqis, the show part is for the frustrated troops as well.

hood
11-08-2003, 12:49 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/11/08/sprj.irq.main/top.humvee.jpg

that's even better.. in the top news story today, this woman unleashed hell today on a barren field. if the iraqi resistance continues, this woman will be on your butt faster than cnn can say "worst web graphic chooser ever!"

hood
11-08-2003, 12:56 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/media/us_strikes_field.jpg


This'll be their next image.

usa320
11-08-2003, 01:09 PM
oh dear lord...judgement day is upon us...

rofl

them gay critters freak me out.

Seoulstriker
11-08-2003, 03:12 PM
http://www.militaryphotos.net/media/us_uses_miles.jpg

The Iraqi resistance forces have gotten more brazen in recent days after they realized that we were only using MILES gear and not real bullets. :cantbeli: Kudos to CNN.


rofl

even the navy press makes mistakes including classification of F/A-18 Hornets... isn't it really obvious that these soldiers are in training? ;)

Steve Andrews
11-08-2003, 06:07 PM
Great idea....that will solve everything.

I suppose sitting around holding hands and praying for the best will work better than force...

As I recall "Shock and Awe" was not a pointless media fireworks show, it took out many major military targets and is one reason why the Iraqi Army was literally ran over. It did not have the psychological effect originally planned because an unplanned early strike was initiated at trying to get Sadaam. Had nothing happened before "shock and awe" people would be ****ting their pants because after the first small precision strikes began, everybody knew to expect us soon.

Did I say sitting around holding hands and praying for the best will work better than force? No. Giving the local population respect and concentrating on intelligence gathering is the way to go - but that's too boring isn't it? Its much easier and more fun to bomb something, even if its an empty field.

No wonder the American forces have a bad reputation with the professional armies of the world. All the gear - but a complete lack of discipline and "common dogfucc" (gents)

Fioraon
11-08-2003, 09:39 PM
Ya seriously think that bombing an empty field has any impact on these Guerrila's?
A waste of ordnance,and jet fuel,nothing more.
If it was anything like the so called "Shock and Awe" then it was nothing really,as that was nothing short of a media fireworks display,to show the folks back home what new technology could do,it had no military or strategic impact on the war whatsoever,did Saddam surrender did he heck,Billions of dollars wasted money,in the cost of the weapons and the rebuilding of the targets!!......superb business acumen!

A waste? No. Just a very expesive fireworks show.

Gordon
11-08-2003, 10:26 PM
Ya seriously think that bombing an empty field has any impact on these Guerrila's?
A waste of ordnance,and jet fuel,nothing more.
If it was anything like the so called "Shock and Awe" then it was nothing really,as that was nothing short of a media fireworks display,to show the folks back home what new technology could do,it had no military or strategic impact on the war whatsoever,did Saddam surrender did he heck,Billions of dollars wasted money,in the cost of the weapons and the rebuilding of the targets!!......superb business acumen!

A waste? No. Just a very expesive fireworks show.

It did it for me, I aint seen a fireworks show like that since the Queens anniversary.

mocking_loudly_died
11-08-2003, 10:47 PM
Hey I get to say my favorite word again!:

Kaboom

rodin_hsu
11-08-2003, 11:11 PM
Something smell like in Vietnam War. The guerrila must be mocking at the coalition force ... rofl

usa320
11-08-2003, 11:46 PM
wtf is he smoking/snorting/sniffing/popping/drinking?

96B
11-09-2003, 02:03 AM
Did I say sitting around holding hands and praying for the best will work better than force? No. Giving the local population respect and concentrating on intelligence gathering is the way to go - but that's too boring isn't it? Its much easier and more fun to bomb something, even if its an empty field.

We are giving the local population as much respect as possible while maintaining as much security as possible and do you honestly believe we are not concentrating on gathering intelligence?


No wonder the American forces have a bad reputation with the professional armies of the world. All the gear - but a complete lack of discipline and "common dogfucc" (gents)

That there would be classified as an ignorant stereotype. Do you happen to even know anybody in the US military? Technically you would actually have to be IN Iraq and see for yourself without the media bias what is truly going on over there. But I can assure you that more respect is being payed to the local population than you think and certainly more intelligence gathering is going on than you give credit for. Undisciplined you say? Please tell that to the BTDT folks on this board and see what they have to say about it.

Trident-za
11-09-2003, 08:10 AM
I'm not quite sure what the purpose of this display of firepower is/was. The bad guys are not gonna hang around in empty fields, they gonna be mixed in with the general population - and there is no way the US is gonna start bombing the middle of Baghdad again..... So, the point of this was what? Please explain.....

rokus2595
11-09-2003, 02:08 PM
Something smell like in Vietnam War. The guerrila must be mocking at the coalition force ... rofl

actually they are.....


In the area around Falluja, the US army appears to be winning hearts and minds - for their enemy.

'The American army is our best friend,' a resistance fighter told us. 'We should be giving them medals.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1080989,00.html

Shake n Bake
11-09-2003, 02:34 PM
"We're showing a little bit of force tonight and we've got lots of tools at our disposal," said Col. James Hickey of the 4th Armored Division in Tikrit.



Great idea....that will solve everything. :roll:


A bit of force can solve things and alotta force can solve things permanently..

Trident-za
11-09-2003, 02:44 PM
I doubt that this particular show of force is gonna solve anything :(

Argyll
11-09-2003, 02:57 PM
Unfortunatley the downing of the 3rd helo in 10 days shows who's got the psychological edge!! :(

ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð
11-09-2003, 05:05 PM
Its more of a psy-ops deal. I remeber watching some footage of a humvee alone in the desert with huge speakers on it just blaring the sounds of moving tanks and armor near a city in Iraq..must have kept them bastards up all night sh*ting bricks. Dropping huge ass bombs during the middle of the night will scare the **** outta anyone...its about time for a lil late night air show and some psy-ops wont handle to keep them bastards in check. p-)

Argyll
11-09-2003, 05:22 PM
yeah it would terrify anyone stupid enough to stay in the area,but I doubt these guys stay around after their attacks,just to watch the US reaction!!
You think dropping a couple of Mk83 has any effect on a country that has had ordnance dropped on it for the past 12 years?

ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð
11-09-2003, 09:29 PM
More of a psychological one then any actuall casualties.

Steve Andrews
11-10-2003, 05:31 AM
SemperFi,
I take it all back...
http://www.aeronautics.ru/img/img006/coalition_hardware_losses_iraq/web_gal/hardware/gallery/images/2003-07-14T123426Z_01_BAG01_RTRIDSP_2_IRAQ.jpg