View Full Version : Kosovo Gun Battle - MG3 in action
Macs.
03-01-2005, 04:27 PM
http://www.hhohenth.htwm.de/filme/Prizren/kosovo_gun_battle.mpg
This time in good qualitiy, and longer. :)
interesting, whats the story behind it?
tluassa
03-01-2005, 05:06 PM
To my knowledge 2 Serbian Militiamen in the yellow car attacked the Control Point with AKs and than discovered that a frontal attack was not the best Idea ...
Frost
03-01-2005, 05:11 PM
Great post. Thanks!
Can you post the complete story behind it??
Was any german soldier hurt in the event? ( don't recall german casualties, but I may be wrong).
Two guys tried to attack a LEOPARD2A5 for crying out loud. In a CAR! Those guys were NUTS!! We won't miss them, in fact we hit them :lol:
scrybe
03-01-2005, 05:20 PM
How the hell did that guy in the car survive all those shots? Why is it the bad ones are always so lucky? Thanks for posting the video.
Two guys tried to attack a LEOPARD2A5 for crying out loud. In a CAR! Those guys were NUTS!! We won't miss them, in fact we hit them :lol:
You are right! I mean they didnīt even have air bags in that old car....
goldman
03-01-2005, 05:21 PM
Great video :hug: woot woot
Macs.
03-01-2005, 05:31 PM
How the hell did that guy in the car survive all those shots? Why is it the bad ones are always so lucky? Thanks for posting the video.
afaik it were not just those 2 guys in the car.
seventy6er
03-01-2005, 05:42 PM
I think that are rumours, Macs. I know some guys who took part in thatincident. None of them actuallysaid sth about being under fire from more dudes than just those two...
ibstolidude
03-01-2005, 06:17 PM
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/509_1108521299_bwgetsomepriz99.jpg
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/509_1108521139_ladaallfarkedupprizren99.jpg
:lol: they sprayed that car...i don't think anyone survived that...
why didn't the tank just blow the car up with its main gun?
why didn't the tank just blow the car up with its main gun?
Shell would have pierced the car, and hit whatever was behind them. That car was probably so ****ty, a HE round would have probably gone through it too.
Pandy
03-01-2005, 08:01 PM
why didn't the tank just blow the car up with its main gun?
Shell would have pierced the car, and hit whatever was behind them. That car was probably so ****ty, a HE round would have probably gone through it too.
Damn, now htat's ****ty!
why didn't the tank just blow the car up with its main gun? :bash:
Sinfulcurves_AK107
03-01-2005, 08:12 PM
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
Parzival
03-01-2005, 08:13 PM
Which nations are fighting?
Maverick77
03-01-2005, 08:15 PM
Main gun would of just made a huge mess that those guys would of had to deal with later on
spraying the **** out of the car was just as effective and probley a lot more fun.
Steve Railsback
03-01-2005, 09:38 PM
For me it looks like at least on of the guys behind the turret of the Leo is part of the tank crew. Since he has no helmet and fires his glock at the idiots. So who knows how many people are left in the tank? That could also be a reason for not firing the 125mm; it would be a hell more easier way to finish them off. :)
great video btw.
Fee Fi Fo Fum
03-01-2005, 09:47 PM
Which nations are fighting?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War
Germans are a peace keeping force, we got many brits over there too.
shadower
03-01-2005, 11:12 PM
When that happend.I cant understand if the guy in the car is speaking Serbian or not.As far as I know there is not Serbian organized militia on Kosovo.Put more info.Names of the guys etc,...
Upfrontreporting
03-02-2005, 02:24 AM
why didn't the tank just blow the car up with its main gun?
Using a 125mm gun in a residential area during a peace enforcing mission just doesn't make sence, the collateral damage would have been big, lots of civilians on the street checking out the scene.
As I recall from German television, one sergent (Feldwebel) was lightly wounded in his arm.
regards
Upfrontreporting
botmund
03-02-2005, 02:52 AM
It must have been around June 14, 1999.
In Prizren, German troops opened fire on a small yellow car carrying two Serbs through the city center. Witnesses said the car was driving toward a German armored personnel carrier -- surrounded by people celebrating the arrival of peacekeepers -- when the passenger displayed an AK-47 and opened fire.
Troops on the carrier and a German tank returned fire. The driver of the car was killed and the passenger wounded. A German soldier on the carrier was injured.
A relief worker from the international group World Vision who helped the wounded Serb said the man told him, "I am a Serb. I must die for my country."
Source (http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9906/14/kosovo.01/)
they used the machinegun because it's more fun????
:bash: :bash: :bash:
they used it because they were trained to use it in that situation period
anyways, nice shooting, who said the leopard 2 has never seen any action ;)
drGreen
03-02-2005, 03:51 AM
a heat round needs a certain amount of meters to arm it self a sabot would do tho...
caleb
03-02-2005, 05:48 AM
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
It's still one of the best if not THE BEST heavy machinegun in the world. It's only disadvantage is that it can hardly be fired on the move. The insane rate of fire makes up for that though.
garoco
03-02-2005, 06:14 AM
Caleb wrote:
It's still one of the best if not THE BEST heavy machinegun
Well, I agree with the first part of your comment but a heavy machine gun is not what I would class the weapon as. 7.62mm vs 12.7mm+ ? nup.
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
It's still one of the best if not THE BEST heavy machinegun in the world. It's only disadvantage is that it can hardly be fired on the move. The insane rate of fire makes up for that though.
I agree. Undestructable weapon that served our grandfathers very well and will server our sons. As well as any Mauser . All-time weapon.
caleb
03-02-2005, 06:15 AM
Caleb wrote:
It's still one of the best if not THE BEST heavy machinegun
Well, I agree with the first part of your comment but a heavy machine gun is not what I would class the weapon as. 7.62mm vs 12.7mm+ ? nup.
You're right, but it's the heaviest thing we have in stock. p-)
AR-18
03-02-2005, 06:51 AM
Please correct me if I'm wrong but on the Leo2 was no MG3 right?
I though if they were on a Check point they mount one.
Does the Leo2 has a koaxial MG? When they had one why they didn't used it?
yes leo 2 does have a coax MG ... probably the mg3 that's doing the shooting??
the other one is for anti-air defense but it's only 7.62 mm so it isn't really usefull, imo we should all mount a remotely operated 12.7 mm gun on the tanks (and APC's for that matter).
Ghostwolf
03-02-2005, 08:05 AM
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
The MG3 is chambered for the 7.62mm NATO rounds, and it's used by Chile, Denmark, Italy, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Norway, Austria, Portugual and Turkish armed forces.
Shadow
03-02-2005, 08:13 AM
Save ammo start the tanks engine! p-)
Brummmm brummmmmmm!!! ;)
Freibier
03-02-2005, 08:31 AM
I wouldn't call this a gun battle, more like assisted suicide
Lokos
03-02-2005, 09:36 AM
I call it martyrdom. It has worked for us in the past. It will continue to work for us in the future.
Lokos
seventy6er
03-02-2005, 09:41 AM
For me it looks like at least on of the guys behind the turret of the Leo is part of the tank crew. Since he has no helmet and fires his glock at the idiots. So who knows how many people are left in the tank? That could also be a reason for not firing the 125mm; it would be a hell more easier way to finish them off. :)
great video btw.
The dude firing the Glock actually fires a HK USP (Bundeswehr-designation P8).
The main-gun is 120mm.
I call it martyrdom. It has worked for us in the past. It will continue to work for us in the future.
Lokos
maybe if you believe in heaven but then again, if there's a heaven then there's a hell too ...
Jippo
03-02-2005, 09:46 AM
a heat round needs a certain amount of meters to arm it self a sabot would do tho...
Sabot is useless on cars, and will penetrate many houses. Bright idea! :D
-jippo
Frost
03-02-2005, 09:53 AM
I call it martyrdom. It has worked for us in the past. It will continue to work for us in the future.
Lokos
words, only words.
I suggest you try it out and see if you like it.
OldRecon
03-02-2005, 10:05 AM
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
It's still one of the best if not THE BEST heavy machinegun in the world. It's only disadvantage is that it can hardly be fired on the move. The insane rate of fire makes up for that though.
... and well while the barrel release is quick, having an integral carrying handle or something like that on the barrel, would have been handy when dealing with a hot one during barrel change.
At least in that respect the FN MAG is better.
Remember seeing this and other footage of the German part of the entrance of NATO ground forces in Kosovo on DW-tv and was quite impressed with the Bundeswehr guys and their approach to the tasks at hand. And though the incident depicted showed that you could put on the knuckle duster if challenged, I was equally impressed with how the Bundeswehr guys tacled other incidents playing out in front of the news cameras, but not escalating to ultimate force like this one.
Common sensed bearing of level headed men (as opposed to hotheaded ones) with a carefull and deliberate approach in the midst of chaos all the way. Good show!
...
And on another note, nice to see Eurowussies shout "whoop em!" for a change :lol:.
Corpse
03-02-2005, 10:10 AM
Lokos wrote:
I call it martyrdom. It has worked for us in the past. It will continue to work for us in the future.
Lokos
I can see how well it worked in this case. rofl
Digital Marine
03-02-2005, 10:18 AM
Thanks for posting that vid, the soldier on the back of the Leopard seemed KIA for a while... but he moved.. was he wounded or something?
And on another note, nice to see Eurowussies shout "whoop em!" for a change :lol:.
rofl rofl
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
The MG3 is chambered for the 7.62mm NATO rounds, and it's used by Chile, Denmark, Italy, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Norway, Austria, Portugual and Turkish armed forces.
To be precise the Italian version of the good old MG42 is called MG 42/59 and was put in production by Beretta in 1959. It's mainly an original MG42 but with a heavier lock in order to reduce the "insane" (btw: very nice definition :D ) rate of fire from about 1.200 rpm to about 900, in order to save ammo and barrels.
I fired it several times during my military service (also standing) and these are still some of the most pleasent memories I have of that period :)
Best regards
Frens
03-02-2005, 10:29 AM
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
Mg3 is still in service in a lot of coutries like Italy,Germany, Greece,...
seventy6er
03-02-2005, 10:38 AM
Thanks for posting that vid, the soldier on the back of the Leopard seemed KIA for a while... but he moved.. was he wounded or something?
The soldier (2nd Lt.) you're talking about wasn't wounded (IIRC); but I do know that one guy was treated with a gunshot-wound in the right fore-arm.
Digital Marine
03-02-2005, 10:40 AM
Thanks for posting that vid, the soldier on the back of the Leopard seemed KIA for a while... but he moved.. was he wounded or something?
The soldier (2nd Lt.) you're talking about wasn't wounded (IIRC); but I do know that one guy was treated with a gunshot-wound in the right fore-arm.
ok thanks for the enlightment :)
Maj C
03-02-2005, 10:57 AM
How come no one's complaining about excessive use of force? If this was US troops in Iraq it seems there would be people here who would ask why they didn't cease fire sooner.. ;) after all it didn't look like the little car was a threat after that initial burst of fire right? just kidding...
shadower
03-02-2005, 12:11 PM
When that happend.I cant understand if the guy in the car is speaking Serbian or not.As far as I know there is not Serbian organized militia on Kosovo.Put more info.Names of the guys etc,...
Anyone has ansver to my questions.
Weasel
03-02-2005, 12:25 PM
Wasnīt it "a little bit" overdosed? :|
Digital Marine
03-02-2005, 12:47 PM
Wasnīt it "a little bit" overdosed? :|
oh ****... *tries to keep mouth shut*
ZeroPositive
03-02-2005, 01:13 PM
that was cool :D
Itamajus
03-02-2005, 01:49 PM
Wasnīt it "a little bit" overdosed?
It was very cewl woot i wouldnt mind if they continued to fire for like 5 more minutes :)
Fliptape
03-02-2005, 04:11 PM
people are still alive inside the car after thet where finnished shooting at it, doubt this would be the case if some iraqis attacked americans in Iraq.
He219
03-02-2005, 04:17 PM
people are still alive inside the car after thet where finnished shooting at it, doubt this would be the case if some iraqis attacked americans in Iraq.
Unloading on a car with an MG3 at nearly 800 rpm and having survivors is pure luck.
That was also Germany's first combat engagement since WWII.
I think somebody won the Iron Cross or Blue Max for that one.
:P
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/99/06/14/topnews/prizren2_.jpg
Video (http://www.seventy6er.de/einsatz/feuergefecht_prizren.mpg) (Thanks seventy6er)
Ghostwolf
03-02-2005, 04:27 PM
Unloading on a car with an MG3 at nearly 800 rpm and having survivors is pure luck.
the car's engine block probably stopped most of the MG rounds,
the result may be different if the rounds were 50 cals or 25mm
Macs.
03-02-2005, 04:28 PM
That was also Germany's first combat engagement since WWII.
No, it wasn't. ;)
This was:
http://img118.exs.cx/img118/3627/23442342342342343oq.jpg
Ghostwolf
03-02-2005, 04:42 PM
Video (http://www.seventy6er.de/einsatz/feuergefecht_prizren.mpg) (Thanks seventy6er)
The driver probably dead, and the passenger injured.
No idea what the passenger(nor the German translation)
is saying though.
noFlooder
03-02-2005, 05:39 PM
Video (http://www.seventy6er.de/einsatz/feuergefecht_prizren.mpg) (Thanks seventy6er)
The driver probably dead, and the passenger injured.
No idea what the passenger(nor the German translation)
is saying though.
Thr german translation for the injured person says
"Get me out of here, get me out of here. If there is any god, get me out of here."
RS_Leo1A5
03-02-2005, 06:29 PM
Does the Leo2 has a koaxial MG? When they had one why they didn't used it?
The gunner probably wasn't in the turret so the coaxial MG couldn't be used. Furthermore, it's not easy to take aim on such a close range target with tank optics - and any turret movement while aiming would have put the two soldiers taking cover behind it in danger.
IIRC the MG3 fired was the one installed on the loader's hatch. The gun and the loader operating it are not visible in the video due the distance and viewing angle.
He219
03-02-2005, 06:54 PM
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/99/06/14/topnews/prizren1_.jpg
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/99/06/14/topnews/kfor_.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/3690206.jpg
One of the occupants of a car that was blasted by heavy fire from German troops leans out of the car door in Prizren, Kosovo's second-largest city, Sunday, June 13, 1999, in this image from television. German soldiers said that the men in the car shot first and that grenades and semi-automatic weapons were found in the car. One of the car's occupants was slumped dead over the steering wheel and the other was badly wounded and screaming for help before he was evacuated by German medics. (AP Photo/APTN) ** TV OUT **
http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/99/06/14/topnews/prizren3_.jpg
Graphic (http://rhein-zeitung.de/on/99/06/14/topnews/prizren4_.jpg)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/368180.stm
From the BBC:
Confrontation in Prizren
Paul Wood reports: "The final hours before Nato's arrival were filled with terror"
In Prizren, one Serb gunman were killed and another seriously wounded during an exchange of gunfire with German K-For members.
Witnesses said the German soldiers opened fire on the Serbs, after the gunmen began shooting into a crowd from their car.One German soldier was slightly injured in the shooting. Bullet holes riddle the Serbs' car
It is not clear whether the Serbs were soldiers or paramilitaries.
That was also Germany's first combat engagement since WWII.
No, it wasn't. ;)
This was:
http://img118.exs.cx/img118/3627/23442342342342343oq.jpg
Care to explain? Regardless of whether the incident pictured above was a "combat engagement" per se, it seems nobody has yet answered the puzzle anyway. So what are you refering to exactly (time, place)?
I know German forces took part in IFOR/SFOR/EUFOR in BiH, but there wasn't any combat involving Germans IIRC.
Lokos
03-02-2005, 09:10 PM
Mock all you want, it is people of will that triumph in the end.
And to the person who asked me to 'try' martyrdom:
I've already put my life on the line for my people. Just because I survived that doesn't mean I was unwilling to die.
These two were idiots (IMHO) in the sense that their attack had nothing but symbolism attached to it, but in the end such things can prove powerful.
Lokos
DeathBeforeDishonor
03-02-2005, 10:57 PM
Mock all you want, it is people of will that triumph in the end.
Wrong. People of skill will always triumph.
I've already put my life on the line for my people. Just because I survived that doesn't mean I was unwilling to die.
Care to explain? You sound like a terrorist or something.
"my people" :roll:
striker
03-03-2005, 04:48 AM
[quote=He219]
That was also Germany's first combat engagement since WWII.
No, it wasn't. ;)
Care to explain? Regardless of whether the incident pictured above was a "combat engagement" per se, it seems nobody has yet answered the puzzle anyway. So what are you refering to exactly (time, place)?
I know German forces took part in IFOR/SFOR/EUFOR in BiH, but there wasn't any combat involving Germans IIRC.
KSK rescuing/evacuating german/western citizens from Albania when things went down the ****ter there after the fall of the communist regime in Albania, if memory serves.
At the time this was announced the first shots fired in anger by a german soldier since WWII.
During the evac some armed Albanians drove up to the evac site, shots where heard and the KSK opened up.
The Albanians beat feet and the evac continued, no loss of evacuees or KSK personell, the fate of the Albanians is unknown
-Archon-
03-03-2005, 05:32 AM
Wow, I know the MG3 is from MG42, but it's still in use/service? I didn't know that...hehe
The MG3 is chambered for the 7.62mm NATO rounds, and it's used by Chile, Denmark, Italy, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Norway, Austria, Portugual and Turkish armed forces.
And Sweden! We use them in our Leos.
seventy6er
03-03-2005, 08:06 AM
No, it wasn't. ;)
KSK rescuing/evacuating german/western citizens from Albania when things went down the ****ter there after the fall of the communist regime in Albania, if memory serves.
At the time this was announced the first shots fired in anger by a german soldier since WWII.
During the evac some armed Albanians drove up to the evac site, shots where heard and the KSK opened up.
The Albanians beat feet and the evac continued, no loss of evacuees or KSK personell, the fate of the Albanians is unknown
That's not right. It was not the KSK, that evacuated the people. The troopers were regular "Panzergrenadiere" (armored cavalry). The operation was called "Operation Libelle". Around 50 soldiers took part. Like you said, no soldiers or civilians were injured. I got no information about injured or killed Albanians.
Wodan
03-03-2005, 08:10 AM
"Panzergrenadiere" (armored cavalry)
wasnt the term armoured infantryman?
striker
03-03-2005, 08:26 AM
No, it wasn't. ;)
KSK rescuing/evacuating german/western citizens from Albania when things went down the ****ter there after the fall of the communist regime in Albania, if memory serves.
At the time this was announced the first shots fired in anger by a german soldier since WWII.
During the evac some armed Albanians drove up to the evac site, shots where heard and the KSK opened up.
The Albanians beat feet and the evac continued, no loss of evacuees or KSK personell, the fate of the Albanians is unknown
That's not right. It was not the KSK, that evacuated the people. The troopers were regular "Panzergrenadiere" (armored cavalry). The operation was called "Operation Libelle". Around 50 soldiers took part. Like you said, no soldiers or civilians were injured. I got no information about injured or killed Albanians.
well, as I said if memory serves, well .... ;-)
Only remember it from news coverage, they prolly where labeled KSK by the media back when and that stuck. Thx for the correction.
Anyway, at least I got the occasion right, so some of them old braincells still work.
KSK rescuing/evacuating german/western citizens from Albania when things went down the ****ter there after the fall of the communist regime in Albania, if memory serves.
Thanks for sharing that. I've never heard about that before (Operation Libelle), even though the albanian rebellion was international news (kind of in line with the general underst in the region at the time). However, IIRC, it was way after the fall of the communist regime. I think it was against the first non-communist government that didn't meet the people's high expectations for economic growth. It seems wide scale swindling and pyramid scams were also to blame.
At the time this was announced the first shots fired in anger by a german soldier since WWII.
It appears this is not a well known incident, because mainstream international media is ignoring it, and claiming that the much later Prizren incident was the first time.
During the evac some armed Albanians drove up to the evac site, shots where heard and the KSK opened up.
The operation obviously qualifies as a "combat engagement" IMHO.
Lokos
03-03-2005, 07:41 PM
DeathBeforeDishonor:
1) Yeah, people of skill always triumph, just like in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, the Germans in Russia (arguably had more skill from 1941-1943), the Iraqis in Iran (the war in the 1980's) etc. Skill and dedication to duty rather than cause is an excellent doctrine for armies engaging other armies - rather than entire peoples. In the end, like it or not, those with the will to win will win (no pun intended). You are making the deadly assumption that all people see victory as the short term ideal you make it out to be. There are those in the world that see victory in decades or centuries, and have the perseverance to carry their cause through to the end.
I wonder if Western governments understand this as well as they should. Ever since the end of the Cold War, no one in the West has had a proper cause they were willing to die for. A great man once said: "You have nothing to live for, if you have nothing you'd die for."
2) Why is this mindset one of a terrorist for you? My dedication to my people's cause led me to take up arms and join the armed forces of said people in promoting their interests. I didn't strap bombs to my chest and die shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' (I'm not even Muslim, so that's a moot point). And I don't need the promise of 72 virgins in Heaven to have the courage to do my part.
In fact, this entire line of argument is silly. The US Army is doing its DAMNDEST to make sure its soldiers not only fight with skill and commitment to duty, but with devotion to the American Cause - and is trying to instill a sense of will in its soldiery. For the regulars it's worked well enough.
3) Yes, 'my people'. I have a 'people'. A nation I belong to. In fact, I have more than one. I would fight for the interests of the people of Australia, and I would and have fought for the interests of the people of Serbia. I see myself as both an Australian and as a Serb.
Do you have no people to pose that question to me? No identity, national or ethnic?
Lokos
DeathBeforeDishonor
03-03-2005, 11:09 PM
DeathBeforeDishonor:
1) Yeah, people of skill always triumph, just like in Vietnam, in Afghanistan, the Germans in Russia (arguably had more skill from 1941-1943), the Iraqis in Iran (the war in the 1980's) etc. Skill and dedication to duty rather than cause is an excellent doctrine for armies engaging other armies - rather than entire peoples. In the end, like it or not, those with the will to win will win (no pun intended). You are making the deadly assumption that all people see victory as the short term ideal you make it out to be. There are those in the world that see victory in decades or centuries, and have the perseverance to carry their cause through to the end.
I wonder if Western governments understand this as well as they should. Ever since the end of the Cold War, no one in the West has had a proper cause they were willing to die for. A great man once said: "You have nothing to live for, if you have nothing you'd die for."
2) Why is this mindset one of a terrorist for you? My dedication to my people's cause led me to take up arms and join the armed forces of said people in promoting their interests. I didn't strap bombs to my chest and die shouting 'Allahu Akbar!' (I'm not even Muslim, so that's a moot point). And I don't need the promise of 72 virgins in Heaven to have the courage to do my part.
In fact, this entire line of argument is silly. The US Army is doing its DAMNDEST to make sure its soldiers not only fight with skill and commitment to duty, but with devotion to the American Cause - and is trying to instill a sense of will in its soldiery. For the regulars it's worked well enough.
3) Yes, 'my people'. I have a 'people'. A nation I belong to. In fact, I have more than one. I would fight for the interests of the people of Australia, and I would and have fought for the interests of the people of Serbia. I see myself as both an Australian and as a Serb.
Do you have no people to pose that question to me? No identity, national or ethnic?
Lokos
Well thanks for the well thought out answer, I think you are wrong on some issues but your argument makes sense too me. As for you sounding like a terrorist, it was just the way you said it. I figured you were not a terrorist ;) Most people would say "die for their country" not "die for their people".
striker
03-04-2005, 04:29 AM
However, IIRC, it was way after the fall of the communist regime. I think it was against the first non-communist government that didn't meet the people's high expectations for economic growth. It seems wide scale swindling and pyramid scams were also to blame.
You are right, that was when everybody and his brother had an AK down there from plundering the Army storage.
That tidbit was completely lost on me. ****, Alzheimer came early.
Oh wonderful MP.net, come on guys, a few more posts and we will even find out what really happened there.
So anyone with some knowledge, share it, help an old fart refresh his braincells
Lokos
03-04-2005, 09:32 AM
DeathBeforeDishonor:
I'd rather die for my narod (people) than for my country. Countries are as much states, governments and territories as they are nations of people. Territories change with the fortunes of war and peace, governments come and go. A narod lasts until it is either destroyed or disappears through assimilation or some other malady.
Although, I suppose that when it comes to Australia I'd be fighting for the country, rather than for the people. Whilst I do consider myself partly Australian by nationality, I do not share the same ethnic background and/or cultural upbringing as most Australians. But I feel a great affinity for the Australian system and would gladly do anything in my power to preserve it.
By the way, excellent nickname. Death before dishonor is a mantra my people have found solace in for centuries.
Our enemies are many. But no one has ever called a Serb a coward. And no one will ever say that we were unwilling to fight for our cause.
Not even the Bosnians and Croats on this forum, if they're honest with themselves.
Lokos
Pille1234
03-04-2005, 09:44 AM
I'd rather die for my narod (people) than for my country.
You don't win the war with dying for your country. You win the war when you make others to die for their country.
Doesn't sound honorful, but corresponds much more with my way of thinking.
seventy6er
03-04-2005, 09:44 AM
Our enemies are many. But no one has ever called a Serb a coward. And no one will ever say that we were unwilling to fight for our cause.
Well, I could say sth now. But I won't, cause I don't want to create the 1439399th balkan flame-fest...
Lokos
03-04-2005, 09:48 AM
seventy6er:
You could say it. It wouldn't make it true. How many of us have you fought?
Pille1234:
True. But you can't win anything without being *willing* to die for it. I am talking about having the will to die for something, not necessarily actually dying for it for no reason at all.
Lokos
seventy6er
03-04-2005, 09:53 AM
seventy6er:
You could say it. It wouldn't make it true. How many of us have you fought?
I won't. I didn't say that I've fought Serbians (Beside some fvckers over here in Germany, but that doesn't count).
I could just give examples of incidents where Serbs were not willing to fight. Period.
Lokos
03-04-2005, 09:56 AM
Like what incidents, for example?
Lokos
seventy6er
03-04-2005, 09:57 AM
Well, I could say sth now. But I won't, cause I don't want to create the 1439399th balkan flame-fest...
Lokos
03-04-2005, 09:58 AM
And sure they count. Did the Serbian 'fvkers' you fought in Germany come across as cowards to you? In all honesty?
Lokos
seventy6er
03-04-2005, 10:04 AM
In all honesty? I only fought 1. And yes, he was a coward.
It's hard for me to understand why you state that NO SERBIAN ever would withdraw from a fight or act cowardish.
Btw: I do have Serbian friends over here.
Freibier
03-04-2005, 10:06 AM
I broke the nose of a serb once because he made fun of srebrenica, where my ex girlfriend lost brother and uncle :fork:
Lokos
03-04-2005, 10:11 AM
So this individual backed down from a clear-cut slighting of his honor?
That saddens me, slightly. Most Serbs I know fight, win or lose.
But perhaps you misunderstood me, just a bit. I should have made myself clearer.
But no one has ever called a Serb a coward. And no one will ever say that we were unwilling to fight for our cause.
By that I do not mean that we have absolutely no cowards amongst us. We are not a perfect people - as such ideals are fallacies best left to the Nazi crackpots of the mid-20th century.
The 'Serb' I envoked in that passage is an abstract. A conceptualization of a whole that is my people. I should definitely have put '...Serbs cowards' or '...*the* Serb a coward' instead of '...a Serb a coward'. Excuse the error.
How do you see my people in that light?
Lokos
Lokos
03-04-2005, 10:21 AM
Freibier,
Why did you feel the need to point out that you broke a Serb's nose over Srebrnica? I've broken Serbian noses too. It's not that hard. And it's hardly the topic, here.
Unless you were trying to be manly by showing how tough you must have been to break a Serb's nose? Or maybe it was to insinuate that we are naturally incapable fighters or cowards? A combination thereof? I don't know your intentions, but it was a provocative post.
I mean, you broke a Serb's nose, I've killed a German mercenary in Kosovo. Is that supposed to tell us something about our respective peoples?
Lokos
Lokos
03-04-2005, 10:22 AM
sp2c:
Why do you ask?
I'll be 24 in June, in any case.
Lokos
because you sound like a 12 year old not like anything close to a soldier.
you talk about wanting to die for your people and blablabla and how every serb is one brave mother etc. etc.
step into the real world please
Lokos
03-04-2005, 10:30 AM
sp2c:
1) As I have stated previously, seventy6er's understanding of my words, and the articulation thereof, I suppose, was not completely accurate. All people have their cowards, but as a generality we Serbs are not known for such traits. Ask any who have fought us (not as individuals, but as a people).
2) I don't care what you think a soldier sounds like. Beside your point being a woeful generalization of mustered soldiery, it goes to show how little you know about why I chose to be a soldier. For me, it wasn't just pay, and it wasn't just a profession. So when I get emotional about it, either respect that, or feel free to shut the **** up.
Lokos
well the people I talk to felt that the whole siege of Sarajevo was generally a pretty cowardly thing to do
and no, I don't really believe that you are a soldier or that you ever even got into a fight with anyone, you just sound to immature (and it's not just this topic, it's all the useless namecalling in the other balkan topics as well).
Wodan
03-04-2005, 10:42 AM
german mercenary in kosovo?????
Lokos
03-04-2005, 10:49 AM
sp2c:
1) That shows how much you know about soldiering in general. In fact, most soldiers are uneducated, slovenly trash in the vast majority of this planet's armies. In the professional armies, there are of course the career personnel, as well as kids needing money for college (well, in the US Army at least). In conscript armies, only those who can't think of an excuse not to go, actually go.
Of course, that is not to say that I am uneducated, slovenly trash. But that's because I have already qualified the fact that I cannot be objective or neutral when it comes to issues concerning my country. If you have a problem with that, or with how emotional I get, once again, feel free to keep quiet. I have no use for redundancy.
a) Extreme emotional reactions were part of my basic training. We weren't just fighting 'soldiers' - we were fighting pieces of crap that were so far below the status of human beings that their deaths did not matter in any way, shape or form. From this, you get my 'immaturity', where I attack those who would have been my enemies on a personal level because I can still abstract them the way I was trained to.
b) Despite the fact that I understand *why* I go as low as 'name-calling', I cannot simply control it. Continous provocations that wear away at my ability to control my reactions do not help this.
2) That said, saying that you don't believe I'm a soldier because of my immaturity leads me to believe that you haven't met any real soldiers.
Lokos
Andreas
03-04-2005, 10:50 AM
:roll:
"Quietly slipping in to my flame retardant jump suit....."
Lokos
03-04-2005, 10:52 AM
Wodan:
German by nationality, yes. His passport showed an Albanian first name with a German last name, leading me to believe that his mother was Albanian and his father German. But that's just my guess. This was a German passport we're talking about, by the way.
I don't know. Wasn't a huge deal for me. There were too many foreign mercenaries there, in any case. The Albanian mafia wasn't just buying equipment for the KLA, they were also recruiting 'help'.
Lokos
sp2c:
1) That shows how much you know about soldiering in general. In fact, most soldiers are uneducated, slovenly trash in the vast majority of this planet's armies. In the professional armies, there are of course the career personnel, as well as kids needing money for college (well, in the US Army at least). In conscript armies, only those who can't think of an excuse not to go, actually go.
guess I'm lucky for being part of a professional army then
Of course, that is not to say that I am uneducated, slovenly trash. But that's because I have already qualified the fact that I cannot be objective or neutral when it comes to issues concerning my country. If you have a problem with that, or with how emotional I get, once again, feel free to keep quiet. I have no use for redundancy.
a) Extreme emotional reactions were part of my basic training. We weren't just fighting 'soldiers' - we were fighting pieces of crap that were so far below the status of human beings that their deaths did not matter in any way, shape or form. From this, you get my 'immaturity', where I attack those who would have been my enemies on a personal level because I can still abstract them the way I was trained to.
b) Despite the fact that I understand *why* I go as low as 'name-calling', I cannot simply control it. Continous provocations that wear away at my ability to control my reactions do not help this.
so it's part of the serbian soldiers day job to run around insulting people??? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and I don't believe any organized military (be they professional or conscripted) does that.
in most armies I'm familiar with they're teaching the soldiers to take any kind of crap without losing their cool. It'll/should prevent the soldiers getting too emotionally involved and going on a killing spree every time something ticks them off.
A soldier needs to be able to carry out his orders level headed at all times
2) That said, saying that you don't believe I'm a soldier because of my immaturity leads me to believe that you haven't met any real soldiers.
Lokos
depends on your definition of a real soldier I guess
Well, I could say sth now. But I won't, cause I don't want to create the 1439399th balkan flame-fest...
Hey there were 1439397 balkan flame festīs!
But itīs a total waste of time if you ask me.
We must turn our attention to our common enemy... the eskimos will make their move on all of us soon.
Look at these bastards practicing their landing on Normandy:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ak/native/postcards/eskimos.jpg
Lokos
03-04-2005, 11:15 AM
o it's part of the serbian soldiers day job to run around insulting people??? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard and I don't believe any organized military (be they professional or conscripted) does that.
...
What I said was that I was trained to hate my enemy. Passionately. If I get insulted by individuals who were qualified as the enemies of my country, then I won't respond with flowery language and courtesy, no. If aggression bothers you, should you really be in any sort of military?
in most armies I'm familiar with they're teaching the soldiers to take any kind of crap without losing their cool. It'll/should prevent the soldiers getting too emotionally involved and going on a killing spree every time something ticks them off.
So, if I walked up to a US Marine, and spit in his face, I should expect him to remain totally cool?
There is a difference between trained hate and a nervous breakdown. The former makes you think less about and disregard who you're killing. The latter is inevitable for many soldiers who cannot handle the combat stress. Why you are equating the two is beyond me.
A soldier needs to be able to carry out his orders level headed at all times
When did you see me disagree with this? Extreme emotional reactions include extreme aggression, motivation through hate and other such tools of morale - but do not include derelictions of duty or blind foolishness. If I didn't make this clear, I apologize.
depends on your definition of a real soldier I guess
My comment in this regard was a sarcastic one. There is no such thing as a 'real' soldier any more than there is such a thing as a 'real' man. It was your generalization of the term 'soldier' that drove me to make my point sarcastically.
Lokos
Jippo
03-04-2005, 11:34 AM
sp2c:
1) That shows how much you know about soldiering in general. In fact, most soldiers are uneducated, slovenly trash in the vast majority of this planet's armies. In the professional armies, there are of course the career personnel, as well as kids needing money for college (well, in the US Army at least). In conscript armies, only those who can't think of an excuse not to go, actually go.
Of course, that is not to say that I am uneducated, slovenly trash. But that's because I have already qualified the fact that I cannot be objective or neutral when it comes to issues concerning my country. If you have a problem with that, or with how emotional I get, once again, feel free to keep quiet. I have no use for redundancy.
a) Extreme emotional reactions were part of my basic training. We weren't just fighting 'soldiers' - we were fighting pieces of crap that were so far below the status of human beings that their deaths did not matter in any way, shape or form. From this, you get my 'immaturity', where I attack those who would have been my enemies on a personal level because I can still abstract them the way I was trained to.
b) Despite the fact that I understand *why* I go as low as 'name-calling', I cannot simply control it. Continous provocations that wear away at my ability to control my reactions do not help this.
2) That said, saying that you don't believe I'm a soldier because of my immaturity leads me to believe that you haven't met any real soldiers.
Lokos
:roll:
:(
Sad post...
-jippo
Lokos
03-04-2005, 09:57 PM
Why?
Lokos
Jippo
03-05-2005, 02:55 AM
Why?
Lokos
Well explained in:
Glover Jonathan, Humanity: A Moral History of the Twentieth Century, Yale University Press 2001.
-jippo
...
What I said was that I was trained to hate my enemy. Passionately. If I get insulted by individuals who were qualified as the enemies of my country, then I won't respond with flowery language and courtesy, no. If aggression bothers you, should you really be in any sort of military?
my CO certainly seems to think so
but it's not agression that bothers me, it's the childish flamefests that seem to follow you around everywhere you go
So, if I walked up to a US Marine, and spit in his face, I should expect him to remain totally cool?
There is a difference between trained hate and a nervous breakdown. The former makes you think less about and disregard who you're killing. The latter is inevitable for many soldiers who cannot handle the combat stress. Why you are equating the two is beyond me.
Yes I expect the marine to remain cool, when he's in uniform and armed with a weapon I expect and infact know that a US marine will keep his composure unless he's actually in harm's way and yes US marines are taught not to kill with any disregard to whom they are killing.
When did you see me disagree with this? Extreme emotional reactions include extreme aggression, motivation through hate and other such tools of morale - but do not include derelictions of duty or blind foolishness. If I didn't make this clear, I apologize.
extreme emotional reaction's are stupid and should be the farthest thing on a soldiers mind.
My comment in this regard was a sarcastic one. There is no such thing as a 'real' soldier any more than there is such a thing as a 'real' man. It was your generalization of the term 'soldier' that drove me to make my point sarcastically.
Lokos
I disagree with that whole heartedly imo there is something as a real soldier and imo it's not somebody who disregards whomever is on the recieving end of his gun ... that's a mercinary
Lokos
03-05-2005, 07:00 AM
Jippo:
Could you provide an abstract of what you're talking about?
sp2c:
I'll make this very clear for you:
1) Childish arguments do not follow *me* where I go. I participate in childish arguments that arise from obvious provocation - arguments which I rarely start. If my crime is that I participate, then so be it.
2) What about when they're out of uniform, and do not have a weapon? Because I currently do not have a uniform, and do not carry a weapon. Was your insinuation that I would kill someone for simply insulting me or my homeland? If that was your impression, I apologize, but it's very much so off the mark. However, just like any self respecting marine, I would kick the ass of whoever decided to abuse that fact.
3) I was not taught to kill '[without any regard for who I'm killing]'. I was taught to disregard the humanity of enemy combatants. We are not talking about simply killing *anyone*, here, but the way in which I was taught to abstract people shooting at me. Are you understanding me now?
extreme emotional reaction's are stupid and should be the farthest thing on a soldiers mind.
4) Yeah. Right. Extreme emotional reactions to combat are actually exactly what *happens* in combat. Your adrenaline starts pumping, the fear kicks in etc. Soldiers are not machines that disregard emotion when going into combat. We were taught to embrace the emotions, rather than to suppress them. Different training techniques? Probably. But there were certainly very few shell shock incidents in my unit.
disagree with that whole heartedly imo there is something as a real soldier and imo it's not somebody who disregards whomever is on the recieving end of his gun ... that's a mercinary
5) This makes me think you're a poser. A 'real soldier'? Why don't you describe this magical ideal for me? The latter part of the quoted passage doesn't even deserve a response.
Lokos
Jippo
03-05-2005, 07:57 AM
Jippo:
Could you provide an abstract of what you're talking about?
It is about thinking and morale of humans in difficult settings. Talks also about nationalism etc. I'd rather not write an abstract on the book as I do not feel qualified, but I suggest that you read it. It gives a second opinion on military bootcamp indoctrination too.
I just find personally that hate doesn't take one anywhere, except for more trouble and more hate. Especially for a soldier: if hate and inhumanisation of the enemy are the reasons to fight for, are you fighting for a right cause? But I don't want to argue with you on these matters, as there probably isn't anything I could say to convince you otherwise. I just simply suggest that you pick the book up, if you are interested on the mindset I try to find.
-jippo
Zerodivider
03-05-2005, 08:18 AM
What I said was that I was trained to hate my enemy. Passionately.
Does the word "brainwashed" ring a bell?
Harlequin
03-05-2005, 09:50 AM
On a footnote: That video is a shameful example of german unprepardness and unsufficient training which hopefull won`t repeat itself!
1. The guy at the street cornor just emptied his mag and noticed afterwards that he does not have no more ammunition - yelling for ammo!
2. The guy with the P8 at first does not know at which car to shoot at! At that distance 9mm won`t do **** to that car anyways.
3. The german soldiers had apparently noone in command with a cool head. All just sit and wait for ... what?
4. Civilians had to run to the car and take the guns away!! Where are the soldiers? Second at the car are the journalists - again, where are the soldiers?
Good that training today is different.
Wodan
03-05-2005, 10:01 AM
On a footnote: That video is a shameful example of german unprepardness and unsufficient training which hopefull won`t repeat itself!
you are just lame
1. The guy at the street cornor just emptied his mag and noticed afterwards that he does not have no more ammunition - yelling for ammo!
and so?
Of course he emptied his mag on them, the faster he does it on that vehicle, the faster the vehicle gets stopped
2. The guy with the P8 at first does not know at which car to shoot at! At that distance 9mm won`t do **** to that car anyways.
he knows his job better than you idiot!
3. The german soldiers had apparently noone in command with a cool head. All just sit and wait for ... what?
they were cool, FOR THE FACT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT SHOOT AT THEM, and what do you mean by sit and wait?
They did their job on the way it has to be done!
4. Civilians had to run to the car and take the guns away!! Where are the soldiers? Second at the car are the journalists - again, where are the soldiers?
why should they?
THERE COULD BE A BOMB INSIDE, THEY COULD BE SUICID BOMBERS YOU DUMBASS
WHY THE F'UCK SHOULD THE SOLDIERS RISK THEIR LIFE???
Good that training today is different.
want to try to mess with them?
Those soldiers did this exemplary!!!!
Pissing on germans must be fun, but tell it to your acne!
Fargin
03-05-2005, 10:06 AM
I think we went off track right around here:
I call it martyrdom. It has worked for us in the past. It will continue to work for us in the future.
Lokos
I do too. Unfortunately I classify martyrdom in the f*** idiotic category, not in the heroic. But I think I prefere the assisted suicide comment or a mercy killing of stupidity more.
...
Anyways back on Leopards, I recall some Danish Leopards seeing a tiny bit action near Tuzla too. Something about taking out a Serb artillery position and avoiding an T55 ambush. But I can't remember the specifics at the moment.
Shadow
03-05-2005, 10:46 AM
1. The guy at the street cornor just emptied his mag and noticed afterwards that he does not have no more ammunition - yelling for ammo!
So if you run out of ammo you mustn't continue attacking. Wow cool tactics.
2. The guy with the P8 at first does not know at which car to shoot at! At that distance 9mm won`t do **** to that car anyways.
How about keeping your enemys busy and distract them?
9mm will penetrate a ****ty windshield and things behinde it, dumbass.
3. The german soldiers had apparently noone in command with a cool head. All just sit and wait for ... what?
Wow but they make a lot of noise while sitting.
4. Civilians had to run to the car and take the guns away!! Where are the soldiers? Second at the car are the journalists - again, where are the soldiers?
Ever heard of a carbomb or something? :cantbeli:
So your tactic is:
Try to be cool. If you only have a pistol drink some coffe and relaxe. Don't run out of ammo otherwise you are not allowed to reload because this is bad or something. After the insurgents died (maybe because they were bored to death because nobody returned fire) run towards the car and hope that it doesn't blow up.
Commander Cool
03-05-2005, 12:08 PM
he knows his job better than you idiot!
9mm will penetrate a ****ty windshield and things behinde it, dumbass.
Shadow and Wodan I suggest you two familiarize yourselves with the rules of this forum. Calling someone an idiot or a dumbass is against forum rules. Especially someone who did not personally attack anyone.
seventy6er
03-05-2005, 02:13 PM
Shadow and Wodan: You both are frequently getting on my nerves. You two don't know **** but still keep on spreading your "wisdom" around the boards. Both of you should think more often before posting. And Wodan, stop calling ppl idiots and stuff. Or I gotta pay you a visit and whoop your young a$$ p-)
Harlequin is right with a lot of what he said...
Harlequin
03-05-2005, 03:59 PM
Pissing on germans must be fun, but tell it to your acne!
Contrary to you, i have served in the army.
Those soldiers did this exemplary!!!!
No, they did not. You just do not know it better.
So if you run out of ammo you mustn't continue attacking. Wow cool tactics.
When you know you only have 30 rounds and no mags left, you don`t waste them on full auto. Especially when you have a Leopard II with an MG3 sitting next to you.
How about keeping your enemys busy and distract them?
9mm will penetrate a ****ty windshield and things behinde it, dumbass.
Even 5.56mm NATO can get deflected by windshields. Have you ever shot 9mm on the 25m range?
Wow but they make a lot of noise while sitting.
But nobody to coordinate or direct the fire.
Ever heard of a carbomb or something? :cantbeli:
Possibly, but still a Fox APC with a soldier at the roof MG3- mount drove carelessly past it. If you check out other vids you even see a Wolf next to it and no EOD- teams around! It is the soldiers duty to protect those civilians and not to have some journalists do the soldiers job!
@seventy6er
Thx mate :)
AN_TPS_63A
03-05-2005, 04:10 PM
Wrong. People of skill will always triumph.
People willing to die for their cause will always triumph.
AN_TPS_63A
03-05-2005, 04:14 PM
Wrong. People of skill will always triumph.
People willing to die for their cause will always triumph.
un_swe
03-05-2005, 06:01 PM
There is nothing more boring than the different "balkan flame partys" that come on fire here all the time.I served there for 14 months in 1993-94 and there were bad people on all sides, i was fired upon by all parts in th e war 4 different reasons.its so boring to hear about serbian or croatian or muslim courage all the time. It was a ****ing ugly war that left a lot of people on the loosing side no matter what belief they had. and we had to sit in the middle to babysit the different sides in the conflict. Sometimes when we were up in the trenches on either side to collect info, and we asked the young soldiers why do you fight?, you would recive lite answers like "they killed my grandfather or something.****! they didnt have a clue....,
un_swe
Lokos
03-06-2005, 03:23 AM
Fargin:
The martyrs of over six hundred years ago were used as rallying cries during our independence movement in the 19th century. One martyr can do more damage to an enemy cause than a battlefield victory - in the long-term.
Most military historians understand the significance of symbolism in motivation of a people for conflict.
The gentlemen in the car may have sacrificed themselves foolishly, but their fanatical bravery in disregarding a NATO AFV is something that will be remembered - and there will be many who will see it as their duty to 'meet their standard' in willpower and self-sacrifice for a cause.
Like I have quoted previously: 'He who has nothing to die for, has nothing to live for.'
Zerodivider:
Brainwashed? Certainly. Just like all marines are in basic training. It's a part of every modern military - brainwashing, that is. Some would also call it 'indoctrination'.
What is your point?
Jippo:
Thanks for the recommendation. I will see if I can find this book. And thank you for approaching me in a civilized manner. It is appreciated.
Lokos
Jippo
03-06-2005, 04:53 AM
No problem Lokos. :)
-jippo
Danzer
03-06-2005, 05:21 AM
Fargin:
The martyrs of over six hundred years ago were used as rallying cries during our independence movement in the 19th century. One martyr can do more damage to an enemy cause than a battlefield victory - in the long-term.
Most military historians understand the significance of symbolism in motivation of a people for conflict.
The gentlemen in the car may have sacrificed themselves foolishly, but their fanatical bravery in disregarding a NATO AFV is something that will be remembered - and there will be many who will see it as their duty to 'meet their standard' in willpower and self-sacrifice for a cause.
Foolish isn't the word i should use. Plain stupid is more like it. Wouldn't be surprised if they were drunk as hell.
Pvt.Anderson
05-20-2005, 11:03 AM
I call it martyrdom. It has worked for us in the past. It will continue to work for us in the future.
Lokos
Then jump off the bridge u tart
Jippo
05-20-2005, 11:07 AM
Then jump off the bridge u tart
So you dug up an age old thread just to say that? Well done! :cantbeli:
-jippo
shrek
05-20-2005, 11:28 AM
I'm just glad for the Germans that they shooters didn't plan on having a guy where the guy taking the video was!!!!!
Deminer from Sarajevo
05-20-2005, 11:49 AM
I want to make one remark.In former Yugoslavia produced machine gun M 53 which was copied by MG 42.
K.W.S
05-20-2005, 12:42 PM
Why didnt the men in the car instead of rolling back slowly then dieing just floor it as fast as they could or try to run lol i would.
Cool video though seen it before but not from this angle
Anyone have the video from the front angle showing the injured man inside the car reaching out to the cameraman
Lokos
05-20-2005, 01:50 PM
Then jump off the bridge u tart
*claps* What a work of ****ing genius, mate.
Tell us another.
Lokos
cro-mag
05-20-2005, 02:05 PM
I want to make one remark.In former Yugoslavia produced machine gun M 53 which was copied by MG 42.
and what peice of **** that was :cantbeli:
Then jump off the bridge u tart
*claps* What a work of f*** genius, mate.
Tell us another.
Lokos
well let's just say that martyrdom did not work for these to unlucky bastards :)
Name Taken
05-20-2005, 05:18 PM
Back to the original post, lol at the guy shooting at the car with his pistol from the back of the tank. Would have liked to have seen more use of the MG#, nothing else sounds like it!
goldman
05-20-2005, 05:21 PM
Then jump off the bridge u tart
*claps* What a work of f*** genius, mate.
Tell us another.
Lokos
well let's just say that martyrdom did not work for these to unlucky bastards :)
rofl
Manic Moran
05-21-2005, 01:59 AM
Back to the technical side of things, I've got a little personal experience at shooting cars at close range with co-ax and main gun, and I can tell you that (a) Short range (100m or less) shooting isn't an issue with coax, and (b) main gun rounds (MPAT in our case) have absolutely no issues with detonating against the thin skin of a typical car. I was surprised, but we blew up a good few, and the rounds always detonated.
I was a little surprised that nobody in the tank was manning an MG, but then with all those troops around, I guess it was partially irrelevant.
NTM
Drunkensquid
05-21-2005, 02:42 AM
well, at least the would be martyrs could not be prosecuted for disobeying the traffic laws, he used his turnsignals rofl
That was allot of rounds fired, that MG42 sounds like a rip.
jmcmtank
05-21-2005, 02:54 AM
Back to the technical side of things, I've got a little personal experience at shooting cars at close range with co-ax and main gun, and I can tell you that (a) Short range (100m or less) shooting isn't an issue with coax, and (b) main gun rounds (MPAT in our case) have absolutely no issues with detonating against the thin skin of a typical car. I was surprised, but we blew up a good few, and the rounds always detonated.
I was a little surprised that nobody in the tank was manning an MG, but then with all those troops around, I guess it was partially irrelevant.
NTM
Looks to me as if the crew, well two of them, were caught out of the turret. I'm assuming that's them taking cover behind the turret bustle since one is firing a pistol. Bet they wished they had been at crew stations.
yes that would've been my guess as well (no crew in the tank)
Deminer from Sarajevo
05-22-2005, 08:25 AM
I want to make one remark.In former Yugoslavia produced machine gun M 53 which was copied by MG 42.
and what peice of **** that was :cantbeli:
You must change barrel after 200 bullets(in theory)and you would be big truble with that on account of very difficult detail on the end of body of machine guns where you must set end of barrel.Therefore these machine guns used only on positions and in action personell carried machine guns M 84(copy of sovjet PK)
LeMat
05-22-2005, 02:35 PM
That car was old Polski Fiat 125 (Polish Fiat 125) - made on italian license mix of two models - Fiat 125 and Fiat 1500.
You can buy one in Poland. Prices 50 to 5000 Euro. The oldest versions from 60's are most expensive. Last models from 90's are very cheap.
F4Phantom
09-08-2005, 08:30 PM
Video (http://www.seventy6er.de/einsatz/feuergefecht_prizren.mpg) (Thanks seventy6er)
The driver probably dead, and the passenger injured.
No idea what the passenger(nor the German translation)
is saying though.
The driver dead directly and the passenger died 2 days later. I have seen a report about Bundeswehr recently and they also showed this scene. They said that all 2 occupants died. But that doesn't surprise me. They shoot like maniacs into this old car. This was really a little bit excessively.
http://www.hhohenth.htwm.de/filme/Prizren/kosovo_gun_battle.mpg
This time in good qualitiy, and longer. :)
I knew a website with a better quality video but I can't remember it :(.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.