View Full Version : Apache Shot down by farmer?
Pep's Bandit
03-02-2005, 09:33 PM
I have read about an Apache Attack helicopter being shot down by a farmer with an old matchlock rife in Iraq, in March or April of 03. I was wondering if anyone had any details?
ReconCominAtYa
03-02-2005, 10:30 PM
Although there was an apache shot down then, the farmer shooting down with a flintlock rifle story was written off as pro-saddam propaganda
Lokos
03-02-2005, 10:30 PM
It's rubbish.
Regular Iraqi forces shot it down, then they spun a propaganda version in which a farmer with a rifle supposedly took it out. The damage to the craft (taking into account crash damage) was not consistent with small arms fire.
Lokos
hist2004
03-02-2005, 10:50 PM
I have read about an Apache Attack helicopter being shot down by a farmer with an old matchlock rife in Iraq, in March or April of 03. I was wondering if anyone had any details?
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12367&highlight=apaches+karbala
Regards,
Hist2004
sawdusty
03-02-2005, 11:48 PM
Magical buck shot?
:lol:
usm2b
03-03-2005, 02:22 AM
Hey, if a magic bullet took down kennedy, a magic buckshot can bring down a helo
Scagel
03-03-2005, 02:37 AM
I heard a F-16 in the USA had to make an emergency landing after taking massive damage from a farmer with a small caliber rifle. The planes had been flying low over his farm every day for a week, scaring his cows into not being able to make milk- eventually the farmer(a world war vet) got mad and shot at them, hitting a vital spot. Needless to say, he had some explaining to do the next day.
callous
03-03-2005, 04:06 AM
http://oag.ru/images/photos/iraq_2003/iraq_under_attack2/20030325-201502-Iraq_Trofei_s2.jpg
Midav
03-03-2005, 05:15 AM
It was propaganda. They would have shown the hole on TV...
That Longbow was destroyed a few days later in an airstrike wasn't it?
it's impossible to shoot down an apache with a small calibre round
callous
03-03-2005, 06:01 AM
Baghdad Bob wouldn't lie.
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/73/1394/640/baghdad%20bob.jpg
callous
03-03-2005, 06:06 AM
He used to work for the Detroit RedWings
http://www.dangerouslogic.com/images/baghdad_bob_wings.jpg
Mailman
03-03-2005, 07:23 AM
It was propaganda. They would have shown the hole on TV...
That Longbow was destroyed a few days later in an airstrike wasn't it?
I dont think it was as I remember watching CNN or the Baghdad Broadcasting Company and they had some shots of an apache on the back of a truck being driven around Baghdad.
I also seem to remember a Russian Diplomatic convoy being stopped and searched and parts of the chopper being found in their vehicles.
Not sure what happened to the helo after that...most likely in parts in China at the moment :)
Regards
Mailman
2RHPZ
03-03-2005, 08:24 AM
Funny to guess it may shot down Apachee :P BTW, only truth about this story is that this rifle was made in Czechoslovakia (Zbrojovka Brno) in the 30´ (last century, of course) and is very popular in Iraq under the name Brno. Ordinary Iraqis usualy answer with this word after realizing they are speaking with Czechs (soldiers).
defmin
03-03-2005, 08:37 AM
it's impossible to shoot down an apache with a small calibre round Maybe just one isn't enough but if the rounds come in hundreds I wouldn't be so sure.
Werewolf01
03-03-2005, 10:41 AM
I heard a F-16 in the USA had to make an emergency landing after taking massive damage from a farmer with a small caliber rifle. The planes had been flying low over his farm every day for a week, scaring his cows into not being able to make milk- eventually the farmer(a world war vet) got mad and shot at them, hitting a vital spot. Needless to say, he had some explaining to do the next day.
Yes, I actually lived on the now defunct Williams AFB when that happened to a fighter from Luke AFB across town. He hit an external fuel tank.
it's impossible to shoot down an apache with a small calibre round Maybe just one isn't enough but if the rounds come in hundreds I wouldn't be so sure.
sure enough but I doubt that one farmer was capable of carrying that many rifles and shooting them all at once so that kindof negates that story ;)
besides the footage doesn't show a helicopter riddled with small arms fire
Digital Marine
03-03-2005, 10:55 AM
I have a alot of pics of that Apache, hold on a sec and ill upload them for you guys.....
Digital Marine
03-03-2005, 11:04 AM
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/463/coalitionmilitaryhardwaredestr.jpg
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/1826/coalitionmilitaryhardwaredestr1.jpg
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/9971/coalitionmilitaryhardwaredestr2.jpg
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/5087/apache0016ga.jpg
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/8624/coalitionmilitaryhardwaredestr3.jpg
It is possible to take one down with one round but it would have to be one hell of a BB
Digital Marine
03-03-2005, 11:07 AM
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/5817/coalitionmilitaryhardwaredestr4.jpg
Dont know if this is the same Apache but..:
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/6290/coalitionmilitaryhardwaredestr5.jpg
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/8561/apache0021vd.jpg
Marmot1
03-03-2005, 06:46 PM
it's impossible to shoot down an apache with a small calibre round
AFAIR it was hit by multiple 23mm rounnds. probably Shilka , ZSU-23-2 or 4
mattnwnc03
03-03-2005, 08:40 PM
http://oag.ru/images/photos/iraq_2003/iraq_under_attack2/20030325-201502-Iraq_Trofei_s2.jpgpretty much rubbish, i remember seeing the apaches being ambushed by antiaircraft fire.
usm2b
03-03-2005, 10:53 PM
http://oag.ru/images/photos/iraq_2003/iraq_under_attack2/20030325-201502-Iraq_Trofei_s2.jpg
What they don't show is the ten republican guard soldiers pointing their full-auto ak's at him
it's impossible to shoot down an apache with a small calibre round
AFAIR it was hit by multiple 23mm rounnds. probably Shilka , ZSU-23-2 or 4
yeah I know
sounds more plausible since it takes a 20+ mm round to breach most of the armor on that baby woot
Midav
03-04-2005, 05:24 AM
Ok. I guess it was detroyed:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Pentagon officials have confirmed that two Apache helicopter pilots whose craft went down in Iraq have been taken prisoner.
U.S. Apache attack helicopters had been involved in a fierce battle with units of Iraq's Republican Guard units early Monday about 100 kilometers (60 miles) south of Baghdad.
The Pentagon identified the two, who were shown on video on Abu Dhabi TV, as David S. Williams of Florida and Ronald D. Young, Jr., of Georgia, both chief warrant officers.
The U.S. military destroyed the helicopter later in an airstrike so the Iraqis could not gain from it, the Pentagon said.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/24/sprj.irq.apache.attack/
The U.S. military destroyed the helicopter later in an airstrike so the Iraqis could not gain from it, the Pentagon said.
Few days later a video appeared showing that Apache on a flat-bed, passing a crossing in Baghdad: it was never destroyed, but recovered.
Mailman
03-04-2005, 07:00 AM
Thats correct...and this is a grab from that footage (originally posted above):
http://img46.exs.cx:81/img46/8561/apache0021vd.jpg
Unless of course Washington is refering to a different helo or the helo being paraded is from a different shoot down?
Mailman
Well, only that one AH-64 was "lost" - in the sence of US military not being in control of it, or its wreckage.
Several others from up to 30 damaged were written off, but their wreckage remained under US control.
From memory that helo shot down by the farmer was involved on an attack on an Iraqi position that was not properly prepared (ie attacked earlier).
The Iraqis used cell phones as warning so everyone was ready to fire when the helos appeared and everything was fired at the helos from small arms to HMG. If light cannon had been used more helos would have been brought down but the intensity of fire was enough to make most of the 30 odd helos involved unusable for a month for repairs.
It is a testament to the performance of the helo that only one was brought down, but also an indication of bad planning to have them used in the first place without proper preparation and of course the tactics of hovering to fire weapons not being very good when in range of the enemies small arms.
HMG rounds have passed right through the cockpit canopy of the Apache in Afghanistan, so it is not some uberhelo... but it is very good when used properly. It is certainly my fav American aircraft.
read the topic dude, that's allready been mentioned once or twice ;)
and afaik most of the surviving aircraft were deployed in another attack 2 days later
Midav
03-07-2005, 01:07 PM
Well, only that one AH-64 was "lost" - in the sence of US military not being in control of it, or its wreckage.
Several others from up to 30 damaged were written off, but their wreckage remained under US control.
First time I heard that one.
Several were sent to Boeing to be refurbished.
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/15333.jpg
This one was hit by a manpad. Did its job.
RGRBOX
03-07-2005, 06:08 PM
He used to work for the Detroit RedWings
http://www.dangerouslogic.com/images/baghdad_bob_wings.jpg
Now that is too fvcking funny.... rofl
Oh! By the way... that AH-64 wasn't even hit. They had to ditch it because of mechanical problems... the only hole in that bird was the one that they shot in it to make sure it didn't move.... Thanks to CNN, the Iraqi Propaganda Machine was almost a success... And I said almost..
Sayeret
03-07-2005, 08:01 PM
it's impossible to shoot down an apache with a small calibre round
What do you consider a small round?
I've heard about Mi-24 Hinds being shot down by Lee Enfield rifles in Afghanistan. I tried to look it up on "google" but didn't have any luck. It doesn't sound too outlandish considering how many helicopters were shot down in Afghanistan and that the .303 round fired by an Enfield is a pretty heavy round. If someone was to get a lucky shot and hit the tail rotor it might cause the pilot to lose control and crash. Here are some stuff I found on other forums regarding the same issue, since it comes from other forums however I can't say how accurate the things are:
The mujhadeen used to shoot at an engine component hidden on the tower below the main rotor blades. I've heard it variously described as a aux-some-fluid-cooler or a turbo-super-whatsit-charger. Whatever it was, it was under the red star below the main rotor blade, and apparently the chopper needed it to stay in the air.
The mujhadeen got quite adept at hitting the star with Lee-Enfield SMLE .303 rifles, but I think that may have had something to do with volley fire. After an ambush, the clan would hide on a hilltop nearby, and when the Hinds came sweeping down the valley in an effort to try and catch the raiders still looting the tank column or patrol, all 20 or so kin would shoot at the star. Among the many problems inherent in this tactic, the big one is the range limitation -- you have to be fairly close to that flying monstrosity for the effort to do any good. If you miss, or the wingman is lurking out of sight, then you lose family members.
The Afghan mujhadeen used the red star on the Hind as an aiming point for heavy calibre rifle fire. Seems the oil cooler was right there, and a hit from their large bore vintage sniping rifles would take out the oil system, and bring the Mi-24 down. Corsair
This is more related to fixed wing aircraft but here is somethings about fixed wing aircraft being shot down:
The fighting was fierce, and losses on both sides heavy, especially as the L-29s lacked any kind of armor and proved sensitive even to small-arms-fire. For example, on 27 January 1994, two L-29s attacked NKAOSDF forces near Sothin, and flew directly into heavy defensive fire of several ZU-23-2s and S-60s. One Delfin was immediately shot down and the pilot killed, while the second came away badly damaged.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_280.shtml
This low- altitude flying had the serious disadvantage, however, of bringing the planes within range of concentrated small arms (rifles and light automatic weapons) fired by workers, peasants, and students which posed a real threat to the aircraft up to altitudes of 1,500 feet (Broughton, 1969; Futrell, 1989; Hai Thu, 1967; Khac Vien et al., 1966; McGarvey, 1969). http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/vietnamcenter/events/1996_Symposium/96papers/meyers.htm
SAM evasion tactics were still being devised. The current tactic was to fly
in low, below two thousand feet because thei North Vietnamese could not get the radar guidance working at that altitude. But it also put a pilot right
down into the fire zone of small arms and even foreign objects thrown by
hand that the aircraft could conceivably ingest and go down from. Thomas had not believed the tactic of flying en masse at low levels was smart, but was not given the normal tactical flexibility to change it. The Navy never used this particular tactic again. They learned that, even at high speed, you couldn't beat massed automatic weapons. Eventually, the military moved from medium alititude to 3,000 to 5,000 feet and had more success dealing with
SAMs.
http://www.tpub.com/content/combat/14235/css/14235_81.htm
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