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moughoun
03-03-2005, 11:56 AM
2nd March
Ministry Of Defence Police To Get New Specialised Firearm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Moughoun1/mp7lalal.jpg

The Ministry of Defence has procured a new weapon for the Ministry of Defence Police force, making them better equipped than ever for the important role they play.

A £3.4 million contract will see more than 1,500 Heckler & Koch MP7 firearms delivered to MoD Police, who provide armed security for military installations across the country, including the guarding of Britain's nuclear deterrent.

Ministry of Defence Police Officers are currently equipped with the 9mm Browning Pistol and the military-issue SA80. The SA80, a battle-proven military assault rifle, is not ideally suited for use by MoD police who are deployed in defence environments in the UK.

The pistol, which has been in service since 1979, becomes less accurate at long range and cannot defeat today's latest body armour.

Defence Minister Ivor Caplin MP said: " It is essential that these officers, who police everything from residential camps to our sensitive research and development centres, are equipped with the most suitable firearm for their jobs.

"The team at the Defence Procurement Agency carried out an exhaustive series of tests before this weapon was selected, and the MP7 proved to be the very best available.

"What's more, an innovative approach to this procurement, which sees the UK Division of Heckler & Koch look after weapon support and logistics, is estimated to save around £250,000 a year until 2008 - another example of 'smart' procurement.

"Indeed, this project has been so successful that other UK Police Constabularies have been paying close attention to our results, with a view to possibly using them to inform their own future firearm procurement decisions."

Tests proved that the new firearm can penetrate body armour, yet the round will not 'overpenetrate' causing a danger to bystanders. It is also light, easily maintained and simple to use and, after training, will be delivered to Ministry of Defence Police Officers across the country, replacing both the Browning pistol and the SA80.

The project is scheduled to achieve its In Service Date (ISD) in April - two months ahead of the estimated timing.

The MP7 is manufactured by Heckler and Koch of Germany. The weapon specific 4.6mm ammunition will be provided by UK manufacturer Royal Ordnance Radway Green.

The 'smart' nature of this project will see weapons remain under manufacturer warranty for ten years - a first within small arms procurement. The exact history of each weapon will be tracked and monitored. The expected service life is 15 years.

More than 1,500 systems are being procured. Final delivery from the manufacturer will be made in June 2005.

The Ministry of Defence Police (MDP) is the MOD's own dedicated civil Police Force of around 3,800 officers, all of them having full Constabulary powers.

They provide armed security, uniformed policing and investigation of serious crime at MOD establishments and units throughout the United Kingdom.

As a condition of service every officer is weapons-trained and at any one time 70 per cent of MDP officers on duty carry arms, either pistols or rifles. These are deployed at around 100 MOD sites where an armed security capability is required.

UNDERDOG1
03-03-2005, 12:06 PM
Hmm UK government ban every firearm there...but equip himself with the latest toys.... ;)

BarkingSquirrel
03-03-2005, 12:12 PM
No link?

Geezah
03-03-2005, 12:41 PM
The weapon specific 4.6mm ammunition will be provided by UK manufacturer Royal Ordnance Radway Green

I have some of their SS109 and love it, my Dissy was just eating this stuff up ;)

Fee Fi Fo Fum
03-03-2005, 12:43 PM
Nice gun, good news for the police.

Malc
03-03-2005, 12:50 PM
Hmm UK government ban every firearm there...but equip himself with the latest toys.... ;)

You always keep the best toys for your self ;)

Zoomie
03-03-2005, 01:26 PM
http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/mp7suit.jpghttp://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/mp7holster.jpg
http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/mp7ammo1.jpg

EsoognomEhT
03-03-2005, 02:38 PM
Doh. Suppose I better stop running about bases with my Osama outfit on safe in the knowledge that they cant penetrate my body armour :(

Geezah
03-03-2005, 02:39 PM
http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/mp7suit.jpg

The purple suit is just not on, plus it looks too big just like David Byrnes!
http://thismustbetheplace.net/images/press/press_nyt_29_04_2001_03.jpg

Malc
03-03-2005, 02:41 PM
Doh. Suppose I better stop running about bases with my Osama outfit on safe in the knowledge that they cant penetrate my body armour :(

Like this guy did?

http://www.pix.org.uk/showcase/2003/images/image_0008.jpg

Para
03-03-2005, 04:57 PM
The MOD has just ordered a number of shorten version of the SA 80-2 which is only about 30 inches long. It can take a new 20 round magazine or the standard 30 round one. This weapon will have a maximum range of 500 metres and a effective range of 400 metres. This will reduce even further the types of ammunition that the army needs to stock. I do have pictures of it if I can ever work out how to post them.

Geezah
03-03-2005, 05:02 PM
The MOD has just ordered a number of shorten version of the SA 80-2 which is only about 30 inches long. It can take a new 20 round magazine or the standard 30 round one. This weapon will have a maximum range of 500 metres and a effective range of 400 metres. This will reduce even further the types of ammunition that the army needs to stock. I do have pictures of it if I can ever work out how to post them.

Yes, yes.......we need pics ;)

Do the SA80-2 20rnd mags look anything like the old Vietnam era M16 20rndrs?

moughoun
03-03-2005, 05:08 PM
The MOD has just ordered a number of shorten version of the SA 80-2 which is only about 30 inches long. It can take a new 20 round magazine or the standard 30 round one. This weapon will have a maximum range of 500 metres and a effective range of 400 metres. This will reduce even further the types of ammunition that the army needs to stock. I do have pictures of it if I can ever work out how to post them.

Yes, yes.......we need pics ;)

Do the SA80-2 20rnd mags look anything like the old Vietnam era M16 20rndrs?

it's just the carbine version of the SA-80, pretty ugly actually p-)

PrincessRAR
03-03-2005, 05:23 PM
http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/mp7suit.jpghttp://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/mp7holster.jpg
http://www.hkdefense.us/pages/military-le/mil-leimages/mp7ammo1.jpg

Not bad at all, didn't like it at first but I'm really warming to it now!

EsoognomEhT
03-03-2005, 05:33 PM
The MOD has just ordered a number of shorten version of the SA 80-2 which is only about 30 inches long. It can take a new 20 round magazine or the standard 30 round one. This weapon will have a maximum range of 500 metres and a effective range of 400 metres. This will reduce even further the types of ammunition that the army needs to stock. I do have pictures of it if I can ever work out how to post them.

Isnt that just the one the tankies get?

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/l85c.jpg

EsoognomEhT
03-03-2005, 05:34 PM
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/14102/Stubby12.jpg

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/14102/Stubby17.jpg

szr
03-03-2005, 05:37 PM
Anyone know how this 4.6mm compares to the 5.7mm PDR?

Macs.
03-03-2005, 05:38 PM
Soooo uglyyyyy

Roger Rabbit
03-03-2005, 05:53 PM
Does anyone know if the SA80 A2 carbine is actually being used by anyone? I've never seen any pictures of people using it or heard of anyone using it apart from speculation/rumours/whatever saying certain units were going to get it.

RS_Leo1A5
03-03-2005, 05:53 PM
Soooo uglyyyyy
Your avatar?
True.
;)

EsoognomEhT
03-03-2005, 06:29 PM
Does anyone know if the SA80 A2 carbine is actually being used by anyone? I've never seen any pictures of people using it or heard of anyone using it apart from speculation/rumours/whatever saying certain units were going to get it.

Tankies

Gyles84
03-03-2005, 08:08 PM
MP-7, or any HK for that matter is a good choice.

Have the Met also ordered G-36 Carbine/Kommando rifles?

ROY H
03-03-2005, 08:19 PM
its ugly?

Shadow
03-04-2005, 03:50 AM
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/14102/Stubby12.jpg

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/14102/Stubby17.jpg

WTF is this?
Even the colors are ugly. :cantbeli:

martinexsquaddie
03-04-2005, 04:36 AM
mod police who's job description includes staying awake drinking no more than 50 cups of tea a shift and have never fired a shot in anger get a shiny new shooter.
though do a nice line in bullying serving officers and journalists (':(')
well the cav who are more or less soldiers get a cut down pice of ****e (':(')

Prometheus
03-04-2005, 08:00 AM
Anyone know how this 4.6mm compares to the 5.7mm PDR?

4.6x30mm (24.7 grains Projectile)has a little higher Muzzle Velocity then 5.7x28mm (31 grains), penetrating CRISAT at 200m + (5.7 only at 150m max).

DeltaWhisky58
03-04-2005, 08:47 AM
MP-7, or any HK for that matter is a good choice.

Have the Met also ordered G-36 Carbine/Kommando rifles?

Yes. G36 also used by Kent, Befordshire, Lancashire and probably other police forces. Some use G36K, some G36C.

Dennis G
03-04-2005, 02:54 PM
The SA80, a battle-proven military assault rifle

Well... I suppose if one could say that battle has proved the SA80 to be a very poor rifle, unsuitable to the harsh, dusty environment of Iraq and Afganistan... then I suppose one could say it is a battle-proven rifle. I say it is a piece of sh*t... and British troops deserve something far, far better.


Tests proved that the new firearm can penetrate body armour, yet the round will not 'overpenetrate' causing a danger to bystanders.

:cantbeli:

In the past, when someone claims body armor penetration, yet will not overpenetrate... other things get left out... like really good terminal ballistic performance.

I'll believe it when I see reputable testing of this new 4.6mm round in the MP7 in properly calibrated and prepared 10% ordnance gelatin.

Until then, I reserve judgement... but I am skeptical this is a step forward. It is a good deal for H&K, though. Bully for them.


It is also light, easily maintained and simple to use and, after training, will be delivered to Ministry of Defence Police Officers across the country, replacing both the Browning pistol and the SA80.

I'd feel better if the MOD officers also retained their Browning HiPowers. The nice things about sidearms... is that they are at your side... that is, they are always handy. I'd hate to give up that handiness, that fallback insurance. Actually... keep the BHP... just carry it covert and don't tell anyone you're still carrying it. That'd be the thing to do, IMO.

Actually... I'd feel far better if the British were guarding their nukes with L1A1s and lots of 7.62x51mm NATO ball ammo.


The weapon specific 4.6mm ammunition will be provided by UK manufacturer Royal Ordnance Radway Green.

A wholly owned subsidiary of Heckler & Koch.....

DmL5
03-04-2005, 04:28 PM
While the 4.6mm is a little bit better at piercing armor, NATO testing has shown the 5.7mm to have nearly 30% better wounding ability.

martinexsquaddie
03-04-2005, 05:02 PM
well as they have never fired any rounds in anger whats the point (':(')

Geezah
03-04-2005, 05:37 PM
well as they have never fired any rounds in anger whats the point (':(')

Never say never, I've never shot my gun in anger but it doesn't mean it could never happen ;)

Dennis G
03-04-2005, 05:42 PM
I have to make some corrections… after doing some further research; I’ve found that Royal Ordnance used to own HK. Now they are each separate…



While the 4.6mm is a little bit better at piercing armor, NATO testing has shown the 5.7mm to have nearly 30% better wounding ability.

NATO tests found the 4.6x30 to be inferior to FN's 5.7x28.
But both have been compared to the .22 Hornet. Not exactly fight-stoppers. ;)

Para
03-04-2005, 06:45 PM
Dennis G

your comments on the SA80-2 are well out of date, since the rifle has been modified a couple of years back it has not given any problems at all.
I have blasted away with it and never had a jam or a stoppage.