Military training in a highschool

[Russian Texan]

An update for those of you who don't know.
During USSR times in 8 through 10 grade there was a class (2 hours a week) in which students were taught basics of the military skills like disassembling/assembling an AK47+ shooting it, diferent types of granades +throwing techniques, chemical/biological/nuclear weaponary, first aid, civil defense, marching, etc.. So conscript soldier entered military fully prepeared and ready to move into advanced stuff. During 90s that class was made an elective but recently Rus parliament made it mandatory again.
Now the question: Do you think something similar would be beneficial in the US schools?

One negative moment should be noted:
I have just read an article about highschooler dying in Russia during amilitary excercise. Basically kids had to do push ups, sing songs and perform various other physical excercises while wearing gas masks, it wasn't so bad, but then they had to do 6 mile run and 1.5 miles had to be run in the gas mask. One of the kids started womiting during it but wasn't allowed to take the mask off and drowned in his own womit. Parents sued but charges were dismissed.

It certainly makes kids tougher and solves the obesity problem, but how far do you go?

[S'13]

Gadna

The Youth Corps (Gdudei Noar--Gadna), another IDF "functional command," consisted in 1988 of more than 30,000 young men and women aged fourteen to seventeen, who were formed into battalions, each under the command of an IDF captain. One of numerous youth groups, Gadna was administered by the Ministry of Education and Culture, with IDF officers serving as advisers to the ministry. Obligatory for most secondary-school students, Gadna introduced them to the common Israeli experience of army life and indoctrinated them as to Israel's special security situation. Time spent in training increased from fifteen days yearly plus one hour per week during the ninth year of school to roughly forty days a year in the twelfth year of school. Over the years, its emphasis had shifted from weapons familiarity and drilling to sports, physical fitness, and camping. Gadna also participated in the socialization of recent immigrants and the rehabilitation of juvenile delinquents to qualify them for military service. It had not been mobilized for military tasks since the War of Independence in 1948, although Gadna members had performed support services during later emergencies.

[DEMSPEC]

When i finished highschool i was to young to join the (Dutch) Army and i did a one year Army/school course (Orientatie Jaar Koninklijke Landmacht) , this is a school year where you can see for your self what the Army is and prepare your self for it.
This is where the subjects.
-PT
Run training
Self Defence
Gym (swimming, climbing, obstackle course)
Fitness
-Social Communications Skills
-Lanquages Dutch/English/German
-Security
-IT
-Assertive training
-Army Theory

And we went to Military instalations/bases/terrains etc to learn:map reading, building shelters, camping etc but we never got to shoot weapons we just looked at them cause it is forbidden for people under the 17,5 years and the most of us where 16 or 17 back then.
http://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/a11.jpghttp://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/a10.jpg
http://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/a13.jpghttp://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/a15.jpg
http://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/a17.jpghttp://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/a2.jpg
http://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/137-3763_IMG-1.jpghttp://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/137-3775_IMG-1.jpg
http://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/137-3787_IMG-1.jpghttp://eurydice.xxlwebhosting.nl/~luchtmob/modules/Magnish/Gallery_folder/OJKL/138-3876_IMG-1.jpg
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDPAvAUE!kEkBgPa*RGpXfaQzZjCuUW74!ziEnRfIT74e!oziyy7BCneV*UfQHwQtYuMWtsKheGcj1tn6Sbtl06z7giRf1gl0YbO3!747IWe*M3!7LDCQ/116-1603_IMG.JPG?dc=4675434638201582296http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDcAvgUHesEkBgPa*RGpVZ8SJAVfXhb4Iy5NrSjji5vGj4BhRRhW888KvjTKsRhdKKLaJKTpRQYYWOUuVXNj4RBCUA5QHmeXm3!8M19OmExPALYzJ8*tg/116-1629_IMG.JPG?dc=4675434638402115910
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0bAD!AoggOfhoO0AARCTR3QwqKOt*VbvIAatO*kGkouW1eMWNEgH2ELlovMoO*9OEE6pewm6FBRI!PPhVfszD5RfEkhsa3p7C1YqqBjOp13vSdqdTlt6UsbsiqHr1zLyCyD88vtPpa!ts!xWZasXjdiKiaFNXqiJH/Ori%C3%ABntatiedagen%20bij%20de%20Marine%20052.jpg?dc=4675440171435326173http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0bADPAoIgyPZoO0AARCTR3QwqKOt*VbvIAatO*kGkouW1eMWNEgH2ELlovMoO*9OEuS7!w*vlZjkccLDcS9nNB9W!XYwkRoZ5Fyc7x4pOkNfungciccBUzGYMDarhkQuZEYk0JClCwHADA0MEmBm*5eSe2bGaBSCC/Ori%C3%ABntatiedagen%20bij%20de%20Marine%20100.jpg?dc=4675440854712521831
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0bAD*AoogsvhoO0AARCTR3QwqKOt*VbvIAatO*kGkouW1eMWNEgH2ELlovMoO*9OEIBxb63bkbjeMjzfJeGJM6t4RNOsKM9ISp9HXA4RYgpAtdC2R50AquQJ69p5*BcfXsZMkJSNNkAWJ2pGZHLMJ5BLFflgDUmnj/Ori%C3%ABntatiedagen%20bij%20de%20Marine%20126.jpg?dc=4675440854880093957http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0bADLAokgdvhoO0AARCTR3QwqKOt*VbvIAatO*kGkouW1eMWNEgH2ELlovMoO*9OEIVpZF2uRv*NZySTtowLCzclTuWuJeGzoWBMXocKrgaOyloQ1MmKi*WCh1pzFMhCtj5r1Kfz8eUdr5zIbWrjm1PYKyg5QuNYm/Ori%C3%ABntatiedagen%20bij%20de%20Marine%20134.jpg?dc=4675440854920907282
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDWAvUU*ugmHNvDuhcnvoAE86c9gTKRDcI8qH1K1SW1To4Z!OofEk2WdXkuLIs12eLl75GVUqWyHnbljg!EEyuzPPgH5LUZsKKiA48qtt2N8xBXGESYIA/114-1450_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426731344231366http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgD***kUA!omHNvDuhcnvgu1UHhlkOD1O9gIUCLjPUCPccP8KlcI*lBZrHFe0w43v!N4FAJLwxucx8UPFXBCGHPLWsUMRTnttm!miEUL*sohBF3mU8XElA/114-1463_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426731444149804
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgD!Av0UB!smHNvDuhcnvotaibhXuElvrxd3CUsU530CeFI9FQx6YRbQblzwfmaFD1I4GwxnL*Wdh0v6TjbUv2xgjLBR1gejSfiGSl0tLo4SwOYriNRrig/114-1467_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426731472337515http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDLAv8UiusmHNvDuhcnvr7ABGfWhwDjZGmh2hTdvMlgu2Qpz6L7CSa1geTZKVKuLcihqbLBNzyZT*j0MADJRRViRW8xdPfW8xbtv4EAQ55t2GmKW8Gmjg/114-1478_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426731562113467
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDLAgEVDewmHNvDuhcnvjTZXjBc4kFwBQhc!xnIYuCLfz7CvrKqrzXTxyzTOC1L48CYTFNRX6Ylj83A*Q2nP93Lc6vjKuL3HiIRoXPK3OFS41FHWQYoxw/114-1489_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426731625026784http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDcAgAVzesmHNvDuhcnvrNC2rUPTrTP70mVLBPqBjF*6yI1riX7AEDhPk1weO0aVXnvLuRDZGG9vDB2lplJfE7WmmZNvZpU4Psh9UcJA3gpx7DV5mF!jw/114-1497_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426735950174974
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgD9AvQUv!iv81h!kH6x6owwGuCZtRQPUp1ZD8SJ9j5c7ISuG*R6RFdpjO7Zvmh4rMVlS!lexO*TyTGFMqJdDQ9GGBwSpSrnVjO50jlxKS8w4RC6z0oKrQ/115-1502_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426735984073401http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDPAgEVDuwmHNvDuhcnvj55zXSMNZ5I1zuj5dKrX7dN3TbMdJIK1WQFcCdq5rmbTdd3dOGSoY*rnSYS9XHl8*BdfUtbAoF29av5yLIRdwSYYax99UQZ9w/114-1498_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426735959146684
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgAAAPkUBeqv81h!kH6x6hu8SbM3fPuSMFH5sC2TDq7KL0jqEpffQKl1B60e7QfF72DlgIEzrWC5DKC1xRwP9BaiiDZW89tjOMUHhZivOufyleJDQWlVAA/115-1516_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426736035974104http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDWAvwUyeqv81h!kH6x6tdjgHrlDfV3fo3ve!big5whfnUsoZBRJobex9XruYbNNwaC1y!cBu2EogpTbblncnEIP995*R5deWbr5ar1Bz1YniQophKBGA/115-1528_IMG.JPG?dc=4675426736091972524
http://home.hccnet.nl/geerhard.s/140-4077_IMG-1.jpghttp://home.hccnet.nl/geerhard.s/b14.jpg

[S'13]

DEMSPEC,
How long is the military service in the Dutch army?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

It wouldnt be so bad...most kids around here know how to shoot shotguns and already have small arms training..they physicall aspect unfortunately some cant do but I think it would teach kids alot about themselves and I for one if offered the class when I was in Highschool I'd take it up for sure.

[DEMSPEC]

Military service, what do u mean with that. you have to volunteer for the Military and you can do that at the age of 17, but you can join the OJKL at the age of 16

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Here in Canada theres not alot of people willing to join the military...so by having a class that could be an elective or a standard class would definately increase the rate of people joining..just my thoughts

[S'13]

Military service, what do u mean with that. you have to volunteer for the Military and you can do that at the age of 17, but you can join the OJKL at the age of 16




I mean what is the period of time you have to serve once you join the army?

In Israel once you are conscripted (we have mandatory military service)you have to serve 3 years in the IDF from age 18 untill your 21 and from then on you have to serve 45 days a year as part of your service in the reserves untill your 40 years old.

[DEMSPEC]

No the OJKL is not in highschool, it is a school year after highschool for people who want to join but are to young.

And once your in the Army you have to serve a minimal of 2,5 years, in the Special Forces it is 4 years minimum and if your are stationed in a other country also 4 years

[S'13]

in the Special Forces it is 4 years minimum

It's similar in the IDF, soldiers who serve in Sayeret MATKAL and Shayetet 13 are required to sign more time after the mandatory service (six months more in Sayeret MATKAL and 1.5 years more in Shayetet 13)and most of them will serve in the reserve forces of the unit.

[duck]

For someone planning a military career the dutch system seems ideal. However, a compulsory paramilitary organization for teenagers/youths has a strong Hitler Jugend smell on it, just my opinion.

[DEMSPEC]

Hitler Jugend!!!

It is not a Military organisation, it is a preparation year for teenager who whant to become soldiers, they go to school every day to learn Army disipline,values and respect. They also learn other cultures and religions so that they can respect them. These pics i post are not done daily but a couple of times in that year they go army bases to learn military stuff from real soldier, but NO shooting,killing etc.

It is just a school and they get lesson like this on a normal day

-PT
Run training
Self Defence
Gym (swimming, climbing, obstackle course)
Fitness
-Social Communications Skills
-Lanquages Dutch/English/German
-Security
-IT
-Assertive training
-Army Theory

[duck]

I have just written that I find your system ideal in your case, where's the problem?

[DEMSPEC]

Yeah but you also called it a paramilitary organisation and compared it with the Hilter Jugend

[duck]

No, I didn't. I differentiated between a fine school like yours and a compulsory system used in fascist and socialist societies. Satisfied?

[NcDeuce]

One negative moment should be noted:
I have just read an article about highschooler dying in Russia during amilitary excercise. Basically kids had to do push ups, sing songs and perform various other physical excercises while wearing gas masks, it wasn't so bad, but then they had to do 6 mile run and 1.5 miles had to be run in the gas mask. One of the kids started womiting during it but wasn't allowed to take the mask off and drowned in his own womit. Parents sued but charges were dismissed.

That's sad. What kind of high schools do you people have over there? High school is where you get your education, not military training/preparation.

Was it a volunteer/optional class or was it mandatory?

Either way, not letting the kid remove his mask while he is vomitting, that is just inhumane. The instructor or teacher of that class should be dragged out and shot. Sad world...

[aktarian]

I think this would be good for countries with draft. Prepare conscripts for military life before they join so you don't waste time then. OTOH for countries with professional armed forces this is useless. Force kids to do "military stuff" in high school and those who don't like it will hate military later on. Run volountary summer camps (or such) for those who are thinking about joining and show them what military is so they can make up their minds.

[Russian Texan]

Russian/Soviet educational system used to(don't know much about it now) be considered one of the best in the world. When I came over to the US I have just turned 16 and was put into senior class, actually I was told that classes that I have had before were enough to graduate and get me through all of the college core credit requirements but the formalities had to be followed so I have spent one year playing football and looking at the cheerleaders :)

As for military education in schools, it was mandatory before '91 and from then till, I think, 2002 it was an elective but now it is mandatory again. From a teenager point of view this class is extremely cool :) Think about it, you get to play with weapons, learn how to use chemical/biological warfare protection suits, take soil samples for radiation probes, etc..
The problem was/is that people who teach it are ex-military and sometimes don't know how to tone it down...
On the up side you come into military fully physically prepeared.
I think that something similar, well may be not taking to the same extreme, would be beneficial if implemented in the US schools. I recall watching "Making a soldier" series or something like that on the History Channel and the quality of new reqruits amazed me - they are pathetic and the considerable amount of time has to be spent to get them into half decent physical shape...

[DEMSPEC]

No the OJKL is not in highschool, it is a school year after highschool for people who want to join but are to young.

And the subjects that they get are being teached by normal people or ex-soldiers (not soldiers)and not in Military uniforms. only the so called Green Days (visits to Army bases for Military stuff) is with Soldiers (And no brutal training ex like the Russians)
If you want to join the Army after highschool (minimum of 16 years) you can do this OJKL year so you can prepare and navigate your self on the Army. this people who finished the OJKL will have an advantage (so they dont have to do the first 3 weeks in the basic trainin if they want to join the Army after OJKL) OJKL finishers who joining the Army know more stuff and have a advantage during the basic training (the Army want only the right people). The OJKL is also for people who are not sertain if they want to join. In this year you can orientate/navigate and taste a bit of what the Army is and what kinda person you have to be, and you will learn things like: teamwork, standing up for your self and what you belive in, confidence, pushing limits etc etc
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgD**zgUYrR*uEzFr0Vycg1GGzpcIpktfZydhDgjAJ0IimRnL!7KTD6AfEFiThBPPAQgoTvGKnk2O2tUf1PwvfjEsiw9E*lvUqJ7ZopCdTo/IMG_3392.JPG?dc=4675445794566448315
Sport instructors will prepare you for basic training
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDYAikUHrHa!52zXiVtdTNHmgJQ4gQ2TjfzLLYAFt07FdrUuoWAUV592ubBTOVYgtJ1R3Qz*hW0QCQhNJegdkZYkG3lHW*vT1DgTGgscMs/MVC-085S.JPG?dc=4675444806460147892http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgD2AisUm7H24H5CRQ0O2AVp4K2ZwJ0x4T9PPXMriACgc*CGgGEVG5uOAGNTeClXIydBjbICTjAlQQoJkqbo5MtB1ucydAV2FWn5URNXKaU/MVC-096S.JPG?dc=4675444806524422873
They you prepare for the medical selection that every one who want to join the Army has to do

The OJKL is teached on proffesion education school where also other programs are being teached like: IT,Law,Health & Care etc

[jlanni]

dosent the US already ahve somehting like this... but its not avalible in all highschool its called JROTC i shure wish to hell we had it but my school district dosent believe in it LOL!

[DEMSPEC]

Where does JROTC stand for?

[garyfanclub]

Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps

[Light Fighter]

Here in the US, some Vocational Technology Schools (Tech school) are offering a class called "Protective Service" The class is run by former military/police service members. Each day the students start out with PT, then depending on the lesson plan of the day, they will talk about first response to an accident situation, basic and more advanced first aid, hand to hand combat, dis arming a dangerous subject, warrent serving, and basic fire arms training. The class is co ed and offered to High School students. The final exam to pass this course is that the students are broken up into teams and given assault gear and fire arms with SIM rounds. The students must execute an evacuation and search of the school room by room, the whole time beign graded by former and current SWAT officers on the way they perform (ex: no FoF sweeps) I have been to the class to speak a couple of times and also watched them perform their "School Sweep". I think classes like this are benefical to any of those that plan to join Law Enforcement of Military after High School. My daughter has already expressed interest in the course when she strts High School next year, I guess with my job and all she finds this type of stuff interesting.....now its time to take her over to the base armoury and have her fire some real guns...

[NcDeuce]

dosent the US already ahve somehting like this... but its not avalible in all highschool its called JROTC i shure wish to hell we had it but my school district dosent believe in it LOL!

I'm in ROTC [college], we didn't have a JROTC [high school] where I went. From the cadets in my ROTC classes that have had JROTC, most are cocky pricks. All the JROTC cadets did was drill & ceremony.

None of them know how to handle a rifle, much less take it apart and fire it. But they somehow think they are better than everyone because they knew how to march before us. :cantbeli: Oh well, I doubt they were looking for a career in Combat Arms...

[jlanni]

ahh D&C blows LOL!... how the hell can you not be able to take apart an m16 they are the easyest things ive used. besides some times the hand guards which can take an act of god to get off if you have a new spring.

[DEMSPEC]

Here in the US, some Vocational Technology Schools (Tech school) are offering a class called "Protective Service" The class is run by former military/police service members. Each day the students start out with PT, then depending on the lesson plan of the day, they will talk about first response to an accident situation, basic and more advanced first aid, hand to hand combat, dis arming a dangerous subject, warrent serving, and basic fire arms training. The class is co ed and offered to High School students. The final exam to pass this course is that the students are broken up into teams and given assault gear and fire arms with SIM rounds. The students must execute an evacuation and search of the school room by room, the whole time beign graded by former and current SWAT officers on the way they perform (ex: no FoF sweeps) I have been to the class to speak a couple of times and also watched them perform their "School Sweep". I think classes like this are benefical to any of those that plan to join Law Enforcement of Military after High School. My daughter has already expressed interest in the course when she strts High School next year, I guess with my job and all she finds this type of stuff interesting.....now its time to take her over to the base armoury and have her fire some real guns...

Dont u have laws like people under 17 or 18 may not fire weapons.


Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps

Is this in Highschool? are they training people to be Army Officers in Highschool!!! i thought you have to do Westpoint

[jlanni]

nope west point is not the only option, you also got ROTC and OCS, JROTC is just a pre ROTC

[WARPIG]

JROTC is a class for "wanna be" soldiers. Some good soldiers come out of it but not more than straight from the "civilian classes." Thanks to American liberals, the toughest thing in highschool is playing football. That is the only time any adult can yell and scream at an American student and not get in trouble for it.
I would love to see a high school course for youths that seem to lack focus. I think ROTC should be a tough and demanding course for college kids and a high-school equivalent should be made a second chance option for kids who are high risk criminal prospects, or fumbled their graduation requirements, or who want to enter the college level ROTC with higher rank.

[Red]

I was in something similar to JROTC and i was taught how to break apart,clean,re-assemble,and fire my SLR.

[11F5S]

I was in something similar to JROTC and i was taught how to break apart,clean,re-assemble,and fire my SLR.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

[DEMSPEC]

Some nice posters of the OJKL.
http://be.msnusers.com/OJKLZwolle/shoebox.msnw
http://www.landmacht.nl/200-werk/260/imgs/oj_01.jpg
Get endurance
http://www.landmacht.nl/200-werk/260/imgs/oj_02.jpg
Get Strength
http://www.landmacht.nl/200-werk/260/imgs/oj_03.jpg
Learn the fastes routes

[Haiw]

no offence, maar

wat n kutposters :lol:

[martinexsquaddie]

My state school had a CCF unit Attached which stands for combined Cadet force had an armoury with 20 odd .303 NO4 and 4 Bren guns. It was after school and voluntary Started Shooting 303s when I was 13 How to put people off shooting for life:).
USed to use the woods next to the school for blank firing exercises much to the annoyance of dog walkers and the police :roll:

[jlanni]

USed to use the woods next to the school for blank firing exercises much to the annoyance of dog walkers and the police

haha that sounds like alot of fun