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Russian Texan

11-11-2003, 10:35 AM

Did you know that Russia had naval spetsnaz since 1941.
During the military exercise back in 1938 the small group of man exited submarine through the torpedo tubes, cut antisubmarine net that protected the bay, made it ashore, performed some saboteur mission and swam back to the submarine. The official date of creation was August 11, 1941 that is when 146 men unit was formed on Baltic fleet and put into action. Here are some pics of that time

http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-02.jpg
http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-03.jpg
http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-04.jpg
http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-05.jpg
http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-06.jpg
http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-07.jpghttp://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-08.jpg
http://www.vrazvedka.ru/main/history/im/afonchenko-09.jpg

Anyways, I'd like to learn more about naval SF from different countries, so post your pics and stories

S'13

11-11-2003, 01:05 PM

Shayetet 13

http://students.engr.scu.edu/~jabraham/specwar/specops/israel/flotilla/s13akm203grey.jpg

http://www.specwarnet.com/world/israeli_rib.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-27.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-12.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-21.jpg

It's roots go back to before Israel's birth, when Pal'yam (Sea companies)
fighters would swim into harbors in Israel and Cyprus and attack British patrol boats and battleships.

NcDeuce

11-11-2003, 03:17 PM

Naval Special Ops?

S'13

11-11-2003, 03:32 PM

Naval Special Ops?

Here are some examples of operations executed by Shayetet 13:

Assault on Green Island

Operation High Voltage

Operation Spring of Youth

S'13

11-11-2003, 03:50 PM

The Israeli Commando Assault on Green Island
By Doron Geller

During the War of Attrition beginning in 1969, the declared Egyptian intention was to wear Israel down by constant, small-scale attacks on Israeli positions along the Suez Canal. On July 10, 1969, Egyptian commandos made their way across the Suez Canal in dinghies and mounted a bloody attack on the Israeli position at Mezach on the East Bank of the Suez Canal. Seven Israelis were killed and five were wounded, and others were taken back to Egypt as prisoners.

Many of the Israeli soldiers serving along the Canal were reservists, concerned about their wives, children and jobs in Israel. They just wanted to be able to get home safely. Morale nose-dived. The Egyptian raid merited a sharp response.

The IDF gave the responsibility of retaliation to Flotilla 13, an elite unit of Israeli naval commandos. The "'IDF General Staff demanded…a response that would strike at the soul of Egyptian morale as the assault on Mezach had caused Israeli servicemen posted along the canal to be engulfed by fear and apprehension." The Israelis decided that Egypt's most fortified position in the Suez Canal zone - Green Island - would have to be assaulted.

Green Island was a "piece of protruding stone and concrete" and the Egyptians considered it an "impregnable fortress and symbol of Egyptian military prowess", and it was there that the Egyptians felt safest.

Green Island was located at the southern end of the Suez Canal. It was "built by the British during the Second World War to protect its ultrastrategic waterway from air and sea attack by Axis forces." It was a large and imposing facility that measured more than 450 feet long and more than 240 feet wide. It was built on "a bed of stable corals and made out of reinforced concrete…" which consisted of a "one-storey building with a large courtyard. At the end of the island, a concrete bridge jutted out into the water toward a circular five-meter high tower supporting a radar site and two heavy anti-aircraft machine guns." A wall reinforced with thick rows of barbed wire was built at the water's edge, meant to deter "any intruder attacking by sea." In the roof heavy machine guns were emplaced, and there were over a dozen machine gun nests. Israeli Intelligence estimated that there were about 100 Egyptian soldiers stationed on the island, including the elite as-Saiqa commandos. It was a formidable defensive position with a dominating command of the surrounding waters.

The obvious nature of Green Island as a target for Israeli commandos was not lost on the Israelis themselves. In April 1969, several months before the Egyptian attack on the Israeli [position at Mezach on the East Bank of the Suez Canal, a four-man Israeli reconnaissance team had scouted out Green Island.

Shmuel Almog, the Flotilla 13 commander who would be leading the operation, felt that 40 men would be needed to assault the island. But Flotilla 13 had only 30 men, mainly due to Almog's extraordinarily demanding training standards. More men from other units would have to be called in, and they were - from Sayeret Matkal, another elite commando unit. This unit was commanded by Menachem Digli. Brigadier-General Rafael Eitan, today one of the most famed Israeli generals second perhaps only to Ariel Sharon, was then the "chief paratroop and infantry officer responsible for all commando strikes." He gave Almog only one week "to draw up his plans…train his men, and execute the operation."

Shmuel Almog had reconnoitered the area several times himself, and he knew that there was only one way Green Island could be approached - and that was underwater. Any above-water approach was doomed to fail, as the Egyptians had carefully covered all approaches to the island, and they were well-entrenched.

One possibility that was not raised in the literature I looked at for this operation was the option of bombing Green Island from the air and thus putting Green island off the map. But this was the War of Attrition, not an open war, and evidently Israel did not want to escalate the situation to one more serious than it already was. In addition, the Egyptians had proven themselves to be dangerous foes by their naval commando raid on Mezach. The Israelis wanted to show that their own commandos would go one better, and that their combined naval/land operations were deadly and could strike fear and demoralization into the Egyptians even more than the Egyptians had caused the Israelis along the canal.

The commandos would not be able to swim to their targets either - the shadows and slight ripples in the sea might give them away. The only option for the first wave of the assault, which would be led by Flotilla 13, would be to swim underwater at a depth safe enough to avoid detection for several hours - all the while equipped with heavy weaponry and ammunition. They would then emerge "literally under the noses of the Egyptians at the base of their target." As Shmuel Katz writes: "The violent transformation from stealth intruder to heavily armed attacker would have to be fantastic."

The Sayeret Matkal men were not trained for underwater operations, so they would have to remain safely away from the target until the Flotilla 13 unit had arrived on the beach. Only when the Flotilla 13 unit had secured the beachhead would the Sayeret Matkal, moored 1500 meters away, be called in. In that period, the 20-30 Flotilla 13 commandos would be alone against the Egyptian force in the imposing fortress. And in that period, they would have to cut a passage through the 3-layer barbed wire defenses for the Sayeret Matkal force which would come after them.

The naval commandos had to hope, too, that their weapons, ammunition, grenades, and other equipment would be operational once they emerged from the depths. Most of them decided to carry an AK-47 rather than the Israeli-made Uzi, in that the AK-47 was known to work better after having been submerged under water.

Training was intense. Intelligence gathering went on apace as well, with small units going out to the outskirts of Green Island to check out Egyptian defenses. They found that the Egyptians were at a high level of alert. "Sentries, carrying AK-47's and flashlights, combed the waters in search of Israeli frogmen."

The night before the task force headed out to Green Island, they trained and reviewed their roles. They made sure, as best they could, "that every single inch of Green Island was etched in the back of their minds as unforgettable fact." Nerves were on razor's edge.

The Flotilla 13 unit left its base on the East Bank of the Suez Canal at 7:45 p.m. on July19. Each commando was equipped with his personal weapon, ammunition reserves, grenades, first-aid equipment, canteen and a flashlight, flippers, oxygen tanks, mask and life preserver.

At 8:30 p.m. the Sayeret Matkal back-up force set out in 12 rubber and motorized dinghies (called Zodiacs). By 10:30 they were 1 mile from Green Island.

By 1:30 a.m. the naval commandos still hadn't reached their target. They were still swimming at a brisk pace towards the island. They still, however, had the element of surprise.

At 15 meters from the island the flotilla leader noticed two armed Egyptian sentries. He ordered his men underwater again and told them to remove their diving gear.

Five minutes later, with their equipment safely taken care of, twenty figures emerged from the water and pointed their AK-47's and Uzis at the sentries. While some of the commandos began cutting through the barbed wire, an Egyptian sentry began walking towards them. An Israeli commando dropped him, which alarmed another Egyptian soldier, who lobbed a grenade at them.

Three Israelis were wounded and the island was engulfed in battle. As the Egyptians raced out of their barracks the Israeli commandos began cutting them down at close quarters. They hurled smoke grenades at the Egyptian machine-gun nests to temporarily block their vision.

When the Israeli commandos set out for Green Island there was concern about the functioning of their weapons and ammunition after having been submerged underwater for several hours. These were well-founded concerns. Much of their weaponry and ammunition was not operable. Even a squad leader's radio did not work.

The Sayeret Matkal was supposed to advance with the first rounds of fire from the Flotilla 13 naval unit, but the Sayeret Matkal did not come as planned. Without waiting the naval commandos raced forward. Some of them ascended the wall and fired what weapons and lobbed what grenades worked. Many Israeli commandos were wounded but advanced in spite of that. As they did not know if the back-up force of Sayeret Matkal were going to get there in time or not, the commandos on shore were attacking Egyptian bunkers "reserved for the Sayeret." The Egyptians defended their positions staunchly after the surprise of the attack wore off. A number of Israeli commandos were killed in the assault. The Egyptians refused to surrender, holding their positions until they were wiped out.

After only 17 minutes, the 20-man Flotilla 13 unit had taken over much of the island. It was only then that the Sayeret Matkal unit arrived on the island. About half of the naval commandos were already wounded - including First Lieutenant Ami Ayalon, who is now a leader in the Israeli Intelligence community. He received the Yellow Ribbon, the IDF's medal issued to soldiers "'who display the 'ultimate heroism against enemy fire…'" Only three IDF soldiers - including Ayalon - have received this medal. All have been from Flotilla 13.

The official version cites: "On the night of July 19-20, in the battle for Green Island, First Lieutenant Amichai 'Ami' Ayalon was the deputy commander of a band of operators in the assault. At the time of the attack, he tossed a grenade at the radar position, and during the assault moved ahead of his soldiers to lead the attack. When he climbed on the roof of one position, he suffered shrapnel wound to the forehead, but still managed to hurl a grenade, even though it failed to explode. Under heavy fire, he continued his advance along with First Sergeant Zalman Rot, and wiped out a machine gun nest. He later hooked up with another operator, and wiped out two more enemy positions. Leading the attack against a gun position, a grenade blast seriously wounded him…though he continued to fire his weapon at enemy positions; another enemy grenade detonated near him, this time wounding him in the hand and neck. Severely wounded and bleeding profusely, he managed to continue his attack and only after the mission was complete did he inform his superiors of his wounds and evacuate himself."

Ilan Egozi was another Flotilla 13 operator who was decorated for bravery for his part in the assault on Green Island. His citation recounted: "On the night of July 19-20, 1969, in the battle for Green Island, First Lieutenant Egozi was the commander of the squad responsible for breaking through the position's defenses. While cutting through the fence, he discovered Egyptian soldiers looking around the rooftop of their position, illuminating the area with their flashlights. Fearing discovery, he opened fire and ordered his men to attack." He was seriously wounded but continued to carry on the operation, and "was the last on the boat to evacuate his position."

Egozi, as a former POW in Egyptian hands was not supposed to have even been there at all. If he was captured, as a former POW attacking his former captors, according to the Geneva Convention the Egyptians did not have to guarantee his safety.

The Israeli force continued to assault the fortress. They controlled the upper section of the island, but they realized that to destroy the whole structure they would need to wipe out the "stiff resistance emanating from the courtyard below." They had to engage in room-to-room combat in order to that. "The system was simple and effective. Commandos would line up along the hallway, stand with their backs against the wall, and then toss a fragmentation grenade inside the enclosed space. What was not killed by the grenade's blast was terminated by the commandos spraying the smoking aftermath with dedicated blasts of machine-gun and automatic weapons fire."

Many of the Israeli commandos were wounded by then themselves, and some were killed. The Zodiac boats were filling up with wounded men. The soldiers in condition to battle continued to try to take over the island until an unexpected development occurred. "The Egyptians, realizing that Green Island was under attack and probably, considering past Israeli commando raids, overrun, ordered it shelled. Dozens of Egyptian artillery batteries on the West Bank of the Gulf of Suez let loose deadly bursts of 130 mm shells onto the island, and wounded Egyptian defenders. The shelling was an 'obvious' indication that it was time to get off the island quickly." While the shells first fell harmlessly into the sea, they soon increased in accuracy, until the shells began to fall on the island and near the Zodiacs as well.

At 2:15 on the morning of July 20, Shmuel Almog and Menachem Digli ordered the evacuation of their forces. The Israeli units had occupied 2/3 of the island. They eliminated remaining Egyptian forces and those who tried to escape. And while Egyptian units from the West Bank were shelling Green Island, three Israeli officers were preparing an explosive charge that would blow up Green Island to an extent that they would never have to return.

The Flotilla 13/Sayeret Matkal units evacuated the island. There were six dead and fourteen wounded. They were loaded first onto the boats and then the others got on themselves.

It was a difficult journey back to Israeli positions in Sinai as Egyptian shells sliced through the water dangerously close to the boat, and sometimes ripping them apart. Helicopters were called in to take out the wounded, and the Zodiac boats only made it back to the Sinai by dawn.

Green Island remained a highly classified operation for twenty-five years. The Israeli commandos wiped out about 80 of the Egyptian soldiers there, almost the entire garrison. "It put the entire Egyptian military on notice. Many positions, from the most secured radar and communications facilities embedded under hundreds of feet of rock and granite to Egyptian Army HQ in Cairo, could be assaulted and taken out." Egyptian units all along the canal "were heard firing into the night - shooting at shadows, shooting at what could be Israel's next Green Island."

The Flotilla 13 and Sayeret Matkal units were highly feted by the Israeli military brass. They were given many other chances to prove themselves, as the War of Attrition lasted throughout 1969 and into 1970. But none of the operations were as renowned for their daring and their success as the assault on Green Island - perhaps no other operations were until Flotilla 13 and the Sayeret Matkal participated in destroying PLO headquarters in Beirut in "Operation Spring of Youth" in 1973.

One

11-11-2003, 10:58 PM

What IDF SF unit got ambushed in Ansaria Lebanon back in the late 90's? Was it S13?

citizen-k

11-12-2003, 06:31 AM

What IDF SF unit got ambushed in Ansaria Lebanon back in the late 90's? Was it S13?

Yes.

Lebanon? Is it a state or a Syrian region?

IDFM203

11-12-2003, 12:12 PM

Just to add what citizen-k wrote..............

shayetet 13 is one of the best and most successful special forces in the idf(and perhaps anywhere in the world)

They have a stellar modern day combat record.

I will just post a few paragraphs from isayeret.com
(Anything in parenthesis is my words)

"in 1980 the unit was already after the organizational change. now the unit was bigger, stronger and eager to show its talent. in the early 80's with the increased Israeli involvement in Lebanon the unit got plenty of chances to show its stuff. in the 80's S'13 finally earned its reputation as the second best elite unit in the IDF (well that's their opinion for there is a debate if that they might actually be no 1). S'13 conduct dozens of successfully operations each year, with zero Israeli casualties. during the Israeli invasion to Lebanon in 1982 S'13 helped pin-pointing the IN ships' missiles and gun fire to the targets on the beach. This winning streak lasted until 1997 when a team from the 'raids' Palga fell right into terrorist ambush in Lebanon, and during the fight 12 S'13 team members were killed (and this is what you are talking about)."

This next paragraph is about the joint training which might interest others on this board.

"Unlike the first four decades of the IDF, in the 1990's IDF SF units rarely train with foreign units. There is simply no need. After more then five decades of continuous fighting, Israeli SF units are by far the most experienced combat units in the world, and have very little to learn from other foreign units. most of the training that do exist are not directly between the foreign units and the Israeli SF units but rather between Unit 707 (the IDF CT school) and the foreign units. this enable the entire knowledge gained in this joint training experience to be gathered and pass through the entire Israeli SF community rather then stay in just one unit.
S'13 is the one exception. Because of the complication and specialty involved in maritime training, it is impossible to conduct maritime training with Unit 707, so it is done directly with S'13 and the foreign unit. Also, even if it was technically possible to make such training with Unit 707, it would be a waste of resources since this training is only relevant to S'13 and S'13 alone, so there is not much sense in involving the entire IDF CT school.
In the 50's and in the 60's most of the joint training were conducted with the French Commando Hubert (in 1957 an S'13 operative even died in France during combat diving exercise) and today most of the training is with the US Navy SEALs. not only does S'13 do direct joint training with foreign units, but there are also the longest. while Unit 707 joint training barely last days, S'13 joint training usually takes weeks and some times even months, with training done either in Israel with the help of the US Sixth Fleet ships and submarines (the Six Fleet home base is the Haifa Israeli Naval Base) or in the US."

Shalom :D

Dominique

11-12-2003, 04:57 PM

This is of the top of my head, but here's a list of the units I can remember.
I'll upadate it over the weekend, and post the links to the profiles I've written.

US -
SEAls/SDVT
(ST-6/DEVGRU - MCT unit)
Special Boat Team
MCSOCOM DET 1
Force Recon
Divisional Recon Battalions
Radio Recon Teams
ANGLICO
MEU (SOC) - Maritime Special Purpose Force (MSPF)
Fleet Anti-terrorism Security Team (FAST) - a special security unit that's part of the MArine Security Force Battalion.

UK -
SBS
Brigade Patrol Troop (3 Cdo. Brigade's medium range recon unit, also acts as the Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre).

148 Commando Forward Observation Battery- (parachute and diver trained Army and RN forward observers - they provide naval gunfire and CAS support to the SAS, SBS, Parachute Regiment, and 3Cdo. Brigade).

Fleet Protection Group Royal Marine (FPGRM) - It's basically the former Commachio Group and FSRT all rolled up into one force protection unit for the RN and to protect British nuclear sites and weapons.

Brazil-
GRUMEC (navy's combat diver unit)
GERR/MECC (MCT unit)
COMANFI (Marines special ops unit)
GER (Marines CT unit)

Argentina-
Buzos Tacticos (navy's combat swimmer unit)
Amphibious Commando Group (marine special ops unit)
Albatros (the naval perfecta-- coast group-- special ops unit

Chile-
Buzos Tacticos (navy combat swimmer unit)
Amphibious Commando Unit 51 (marines special ops unit)

Venezuela-
Both the navy and Marines have special ops units. I'll upadte later.

Peru -
FOES (navys SEAl type unit)
The Marines have a special ops unit that is broken up into direct action and recon units.

Bolivia -
Amphibious Commandos

Colombia-
Amphibious Commando Group - the Navy's combat dive unit.

El Salvador -
Naval Commandos (Combat Swimmer and patrol boat unit)

Mexico-
The Navy and Marines both have special ops units.

Norway-
Marinejaegerne

Finland-
The Navy has a combat diver unit. I can't remember the name off the tp of my head. I'll update later.

Sweden-
Coastal Rangers (marine special ops unit)
Attack Divers (combat swimmers)

Denmark-
Froemandskorpset -combat swimmer/MCT unit

Poland-
GSP/Formoza 9navy's combat swimmer unit)
GROM's special boat section

Germany-
KamphschwimmerKompanie (navy's combat swimmer/CT unit)
GSG-9 has combat swimmer section for MCT ops
KSK - has combat diver trained personnel.

Ausria-
Jagdkommando - has a small combat diver section and the GEK has divers for MCT ops.

France-
Marine Commandos- 4 "Assault Commandos", Comando "Hubert" (Combat diver section), GCMC (MCT unit)

DINOPS (parachute, EOD, and combat diver trained combat engineers of the Foreing Legions 6 REG)

GIGN, RAID, and EPIGN all have diver trained personnel for CT ops.

There are also offensive diver and invention sections assinged to the 11BP, GCP, and several combat engineer units.

Spain-
UEBC (navy's combat diver unit)
UOE (marines special ops unit)
There's asmall combat diver trained section in the BRIPAC combat engineer unit.

Portugal-
DAE (marines Special Action detachment)

Italy-
COM.SUB. IN.
Special Operations Company of the "San Marco" Regiment
The Amphibious Exploration Platoon of the Army's Lagunari Regiment

Greece-
MYK (greek navy combat diver unit)

Neatherlands-
7 NL SBS (marines special ops unit)

Belguim-
The Para Commando Brigade has a combat diver trained section in its Engineer unit

Turkey
SAT (combat diver unit)
SAS (EOD/UDT unit)

Russia
Naval Spetesnaz
"Dolphin" (combat diver unit)

Isreal-
Shayetet 13

Egypt -
Has a combat diver unit not sure of the name

South Africa-
4 Recce Commando - (Army unit that handles combat diver duties)

Oman -
A combat diver unit adivsed by former SBS and SAS personnel.

Kuwait - has naval commando unit that's trained and superviesd by US Navy SEALs and SBT personnnel. I'm not sure what its called though.

Pakistan -
Special Service Group Navy (SSGN) - the navy's combat diver unit.

India-
Marine Commando Force

Thailand-
Royal Thai Navy SEAls (SEALs, EOD, and UDT)
Royal Thai Marine Corps Recon Battalion

South Korea
ROK Marine Corps Special Recon Battalion "The Shark Men"
ROK Navy Special Warfare Brigade (SEALs, EOD, UDT, MCT, and Mini-sub unit)

Korean Special Forces Brigades also have a amphbious recon battalions assigned to them.

Taiwan -
Underwater Demolition unit (UDU)
Chinese Marine Corps Amphibious Recon Group (ARG) (former Amphibious Recon and patrol comapny and the Martial Arts Team)
- 2nd Special Tasks Squadron (former CMC Special Service Company- now sub unit of the ARG)

The Army has an amphibious recon unit called the 101st Amphibious Recon Battalion.

China - Amphbious Reconnaissance Group

Philippines-
Special Warfare Group (SWAG) - (navy SEAls)
The Army's Special Forces have a Riverine Warfare unit
The Pilippine Marine Corps Force Recon Battalion

Australia-
Clearance Diver Team
and the SASR has divers
Each TAG has divers drawn for both the Army and Navy

New Zealand
Operational Diving Team

Japan -
Special Guard Force

Mayalsia -
PASKAL

Indonesia-
Marines and Navy both have units. I can't remember the names at the moment. I'll update later.

Singapore -
Underwater Opeations Platoon

Royal

11-12-2003, 07:44 PM

Brigade Patrol Troop (3 Cdo. Brigade's medium range recon unit, also acts as the Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre).

148 Commando Forward Observation Battery- (parachute and diver trained Army and RN forward observers - they provide naval gunfire and CAS support to the SAS, SBS, Parachute Regiment, and 3Cdo. Brigade).

Fleet Protection Group Royal Marine (FPGRM) - It's basically the former Commachio Group and FSRT all rolled up into one force protection unit for the RN and to protect British nuclear sites and weapons.

Just to clarify the UK RM side of things...

BPT is no longer BPT it is BRF (Brigade Recce Force). The MaAW Cadre has long ceased to exist, although the ML2 & ML1 qualifications remain.

148 (Meiktla) Bty RA remains extant. They are an integral part of BRF although they also operate in the NGS role separately. They have no FAC/CAS role (although some members are FAC qualified). Again they have no dive role (although some members are SD/CD qualified). They are not tasked to support the Parachute Regiment (or 16 Air Assault Bde, the Para's parent formation) - that is not to say that they may support that or any other unit on Operations.

FPGRM has taken most of the taskings previously given to Commachio Gp at RM Condor. FSRT can be administered by FPGRM, although in practice often comes from the Commando least likely to deploy on Gen Ops.

Royal

11-12-2003, 07:47 PM

Also, none of the units I have mentioned are SF. :lol:

[AFSOC]

11-13-2003, 01:43 AM

AINT ANYTHING IN THE WORLD THATS BETTER THEN THE

--------------->U.S NAVY SEALs<---------------

One

11-13-2003, 02:00 AM

AINT ANYTHING IN THE WORLD THATS BETTER THEN THE

--------------->U.S NAVY SEALs<---------------

We will never know unless there is WWIII

[AFSOC]

11-13-2003, 02:13 AM

um right.....

In my opinion there has already been 3 WORLD WARS.

WORLD WAR 1 "THE GREAT WAR"

WORLD WAR 2

WORLD WAR 3 (COLD WAR) or the QUITE WAR

COLD WAR was more of a political world war, but in certain times there would be conflict.

So based on my opinion we are now in WORLD WAR 4 "WAR ON TERROR"

and One i know your gunna say.......JTF2 is good............but nuthing is better then the UNITED STATES NAVY SEALs.

NOTHINGvNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING
NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING
NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING
NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING
NOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHINGNOTHING

Haiw

11-13-2003, 06:53 AM

nice bubble you got there...i'll try not to burst it ;)

S'13

11-13-2003, 07:58 AM

AINT ANYTHING IN THE WORLD THATS BETTER THEN THE

--------------->U.S NAVY SEALs<---------------

That's probably the best argued post I have ever seen...

rofl

Guttorm

11-14-2003, 10:17 AM

Norwegian Naval SF "marinejegere"

http://www.marinejeger.no/images/felt2-400.jpg

http://www.marinejeger.no/images/af-640x480.jpg

In A-stan

http://www.marinejeger.no/images/bo-585x454.jpg
bording a ship

Tough guys... :)

IDFM203

11-16-2003, 03:52 AM

Ratamacue

11-16-2003, 04:17 AM

US Marine Corps Reconnaissance. Marine Amphibious Reconnaissance originally formed in 1942 for operations similar to Navy UDT's (beach recon, underwater demolition) and have evolved alongside US Navy SEAL's to have practically the same mission, except they fall under the control of the US Marine Corps rather than Special Operations Command. Today they're split into Recon and Force Recon. To my knowledge, Every Recon Battalion has one company of Force Recon, which is normally made up of the best of the best and focuses on direct action/raids whereas Recon is used primarily for long-range reconnaissance patrols.

Afghanistan:

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/marines/z_usmc07.jpg

VBSS (Visit Board Search & Seizure) Exercise:

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/marines/a_usmc02.jpg

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/060c3c67117299ed8525694b006d2382/$FILE/recon1.gif

Iraq:

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/gulf_war_2_iraqi_freedom_marines/aag (large image)

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/6124dcf23c042c2985256d7a0048ba8a/$FILE/LARraid01lr.jpg

Exercise Crocodile '03 (Australia):

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/1173effe52dc85ce85256db9003c86ba/$FILE/RECONS-3low.jpg

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/3aa00c9c061cea9585256db9003c0c73/$FILE/RECONS-2low.jpg

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/49f0e974bf43b7ec85256da4002b4bf2/$FILE/croc11.jpg (large image)

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/db25bf29f447d92e85256da400308053/$FILE/croc12.jpg (large image)

Raid Demonstration near USS Intrepid Museum, New York City:

http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/image1.nsf/ae82f18a8e1b160b852568ba007e7e5e/81cefd56b1db144285256a6500373a55/$FILE/DT-3low.jpg

IDFM203

11-16-2003, 04:45 AM

In line with all the "well thought out" and "convincing" arguments as to whose got the best naval SF, I will say that the best is Israel’s Shayetet 13

I mean I can really go into it and prove my case in great detail but why do that when the proof is right here……

AINT ANYTHING IN THE WORLD THATS BETTER THEN

--------------> Shayetet 13 <---------------

anyways here is a good pic of them……..

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-86.jpg

shalom :DJust to add a couple of things………
This is from strategy page

Not much is known about the Operations the most elite idf unit - Shayetet 13, but they are said to have done more Counter Terrorist operations then any other Special force unit in the world!
here is but a very very small part of information i could get about their operations

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/30-4555.asp

I found a great article of a personal account from a “frogman” in this unit who recounts his experience in last years capture of that arms ship that was from Iran and that was heading to the Palestinians
On Monday night, December 31, the parties had begun for our friends who were making a Leil Sylvester for the New Year in Haifa. I had just gone to sleep at 1 AM when my phone rang. There was a call-up of the Shayetet 13 unit within the Israeli Navy. We were told to report to our base in Haifa at 10AM on January 1 and not disclose to our parents that we were going to be away for a few days.

At 10AM on Tuesday, January 1,our special unit of frogmen, divers, and submarine crews assembled for instructions. It was quite unusual for the 'Admiral' or head of the Israeli Navy of the IDF to talk to us. Admiral Yaari explained that we were about to be on a special mission where we would be a few hundred miles away from Israel at sea. Yosef, my commanding officer, stood off to the side with the other officers going over maps and dispatching orders to various units. The submarine took off from Haifa along with a ship full of military weaponry. At about 1 PM, we were all divided into separate groups for the differing assignments. Yosef called the mission "Teivat Noach" or Noah's Ark. I thought that we were going to do some reconnaissance work near Eilat.

At nightfall on Jan. 1, everyone was dispatched to their location on the sea and at various bases from Haifa to Eilat. My cell phone rang and it was Eema wondering where I had disappeared. I explained that I could not talk and would speak to her in a few days. We pushed out from our base in Eilat towards the oceans. On Wednesday morning, January 2, we were already out in the ocean in international waters of the Red Sea. Here I was, a frogman in the special Shayetet 13 unit of IDF, in the Red Sea, just a few weeks before we would read in the Torah about the splitting of the Red Sea over the Egyptians as my ancestors left Egypt!

As nightfall arrived on Wednesday, we heard that submarine crew was nearby our location. Our commanders were in coded phone contact with an aircraft. The other members of my special unit had heard that a high ranking IDF general was in some plane above us over the ocean. We only realized later that General Mofaz, our Chief of Staff, was in a command plane overseeing this operation. We knew that he was supposed to have been in Washington, D.C., but on Wednesday afternoon had unexpectedly cancelled his trip. At about 2 AM on Jan. 3,we were told to dive overboard and surround a ship nearby.

The other special forces of the IDF began to appear in the IAF helicopters that flew near us. Those paratroopers were being lowered on ladders to get close to the ship. We climbed onto the ship at the same time, the helicopters lowered their troops. There were 40 of us on the ship's deck when we rushed the cabin without resistance and surprised the captain and his crew. I had seen this go down in a few Hollywood movies, but did not expect in my navy training that I would participate in this capture of a ship.

Four more helicopters appeared with their lights beaming down on us and our captives. The aircraft above with General Mofaz was pretty low in the sky. The ship's personnel surrendered and the other Navy crew members from the submarine boarded this ship. We went down to the storage and lower deck and lo and behold saw crate after crate of ammunition. The katyushas, the antitank missiles, and the heavy arms were spread out everywhere. Our Navy personnel took over the helm of the ship as Yosef's group which included me began to photograph and organize the entire arms depot on board.

My commanding officer spoke Arabic to the captain whom he had recognized from Gaza City port. This was definitely PLO country as the personnel began to 'sing' and talk about who registered the boat, who paid for the arms and what port in Iran the ship had left. We found all types of paperwork and Yassir's signatures and approvals stamps were everywhere.

We were instructed to bring in the ship to Eilat port. The ship's PLO personnel were airlifted in our helicopters for some questions to be answered on Thursday night. We would land this ship of 50 tons of ammunition which would have been used against us in Israel by about 8PM on Friday night in Eilat. We brought the ship in to Eilat's port a few hours after Shabbat had begun. If anyone wanted to know what pikuach nefesh docheh shabbat was all about allowing desecration of Shabbat to save lives, this boat was a great explanation for the world Jewry.

We were able to get some rest and other IDF navy personnel in Eilat continued the unloading of arms from this PLO ship throughout Shabbat. Tomorrow on Sunday, the world media will get to tour this boat and photograph the hundreds of missiles, katyushas, and rockets that we now own as a gift of the Iranians and the PLO.

I just got home and explained to my Eema and Abba that I was doing some 'training exercise' for a few days and my Abba winked at me, knowingly, what I was up to over the last 72hours. I watched tonight's news and heard that Yassir denied any knowledge on this ship. Wait till the media meets a few of Yassir's employees caught on board to disclose the truth about this ship.

I am sure that we saved some lives, thousands of Jewish lives, from this ship's capture.

Layla Tov,
Yechezkel M.
Frogman
IDF Navy , Shayetet 13 Unit

http://ajcp.org/html/idf_navy_heros.html
shalom :D

fokket

11-16-2003, 10:26 AM

ROKNSW(South Korea)

http://www.udtseal.or.kr/gallery/image/sb4z.jpg
http://www.udtseal.or.kr/gallery/image/sb9z.jpg

ROKMC FR sniper w/ USMC
http://www.forcerecon.co.kr/bbs/data/photo/rokmc12.jpg

Guttorm

11-16-2003, 02:46 PM

Discussing whos Naval SF is the best is no use...
They are ALL mean ass MOFO's, and will most likely never be pitched against each other in battle, but more likely work as teams in international operations

They all have something they excell at.
Norwegian Naval SF are great in mountain areas and winter warfare (yes I KNOW russians ar very good at this as well), this is why the US requested them specificaly for operations in A.STAN.

I have no belif in a war between western countries (Russia included), but I see the wars of the future being against terrorist cells...

Maybe AFTER that we can start taking on each others... :D

[AFSOC]

11-16-2003, 11:46 PM

Like i said before.....

NAVY SEALs are the greatest......all of these other units are prolly good but not great.

Either you give me a story about these other units that tops a SEAL story then you can bragg.

Miles Teg

11-17-2003, 05:18 AM

Please,

tell me a seal story.

Tiger

11-17-2003, 05:59 AM

NAVY SEALs are the greatest......all of these other units are prolly good but not great.

Either you give me a story about these other units that tops a SEAL story then you can bragg.

:roll:

No comments...

Haiw

11-17-2003, 06:32 AM

Tiger

11-17-2003, 08:47 AM

are you just joking or soliciting for the retard of the year award?

LOL rofl

Yeti

11-17-2003, 12:59 PM

Navy SEALs are Special Operations, Not Special Forces..

[AFSOC]

11-17-2003, 07:15 PM

You guys telling me you've never ever read a single story about heroic stories about the Navy Seals during Vietnam? Panama? etc???

Ratamacue

11-17-2003, 07:20 PM

Dude, you're just making yourself look like a fool. Stop.

Haiw

11-17-2003, 07:31 PM

i read some pretty heroic stories about the clerk corps, those are some real though mfers..theyre the BEST troops of the world!!

One

11-17-2003, 07:56 PM

You guys telling me you've never ever read a single story about heroic stories about the Navy Seals during Vietnam? Panama? etc???

I think you are watching too many TLC shows ;)

IDFM203

11-17-2003, 07:58 PM

To Gods SoN

Any chance of a real constructive grown up pissing contest as to who’s got the best naval sf in the world went out the window with your "arguments". I mean your arguing style here reminds me of when I was a kid and would argue with the other kids as to whose daddy was stronger and we would go back and forth (“my daddy is, “no my daddy is”, “no my daddy is” etc etc...) Until I won by laying down the gauntlet by simply stating that my daddy is stronger simply because I said so!!

I hope you get my point here ;)

Oh and P.S., in line with your style I put forth again that Israel’s shayetet 13 is the best in the world (what, you didn’t hear all the amazing stories that they have been involved in throughout the past fifty years of conflict?!? :D ;) :D Etc…)

Shalom :D

One

11-17-2003, 08:03 PM

Miles Teg

11-17-2003, 08:04 PM

The green faced men. I will look myself for some stories.

IDFM203

11-17-2003, 08:11 PM

what, you didn’t hear all the amazing stories that they have been involved in throughout the past fifty years of conflict?!?

Shalom :D

Seriously no I didn't hear of their missions. Would you post some? actually I did on the first page as well as S13 did also (go back and check) secondly there are much more stories and also there are more details to the ones that S13 highlighted and if you do some more research you can find them

Besides, most of what they do is classified and cannot be published but there is enough out there to impress so to speak

But again after God Son arguments, I think there is no point in posting details and sorts of that nature. I mean why do that when the proof is right here.

AINT ANYTHING IN THE WORLD THATS BETTER THEN

--------------> Shayetet 13 <---------------

shalom :D

Guttorm

11-18-2003, 03:50 AM

I would post several storys on the Norwegian Navals SF and all theire great and heroic accoplishments through time...

But they're all rated Cosmic top secret... Sorry ;)

citizen-k

11-18-2003, 04:44 PM

Seriously no I didn't hear of their missions. Would you post some?

Boarding your uncle's boat in the middle of the night takeing it over and bringing it in to Eilat bay counts? ;)

Don't know which unit is the best in the world (best for what? bording boat? blowing up boats? marking targets on the beach?) but I do know that s13 did some AMAZING things hollywood movies haven't thought of...

One

11-21-2003, 04:24 PM

Seriously no I didn't hear of their missions. Would you post some?

Boarding your uncle's boat in the middle of the night takeing it over and bringing it in to Eilat bay counts? ;)

I thought my uncle and his unit were busy sabotaging your boats in eilat.... ;)

S'13

11-21-2003, 04:43 PM

One

11-21-2003, 04:48 PM

S'13

11-21-2003, 04:58 PM

One, how is Beirut International Airport? It's been a while since the 'Unit' paid a visit... rofl ;) rofl ;)

http://www.isayeret.com/operations/gift-1.jpg

http://www.isayeret.com/operations/gift-3.jpg

Thank you for showing us how barbaric Shaytet 13 and the Israeli Government are :)

First of all, this operation was carried out by Sayeret Matkal not S'13.
And what's barbaric? You apparently don't know the details of this operation, so here they are:

Operation Gift
The Israel Defense Forces' Commando Operation in Beirut International Airport on the Night of the 28 - 29 December 68'
Background
On 22 July 1968, terrorists hijacked an El Al plane on its way from Israel to Rome, and forced the pilot to land in Algiers. About four months later, in the early afternoon of 26 November, two terrorists who had arrived in Athens from Beirut Airport, fired at an El Al plane about to take off from the Athens Airport. As a result, an Israeli citizen was killed, a stewardess was wounded, and the plane damaged. Thanks to the quick intervention of Israeli security guards, who captured the terrorists, a greater tragedy was averted. The spokesman of the "People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), whose headquarters was in Beirut, announced that the operation was carried out by his organization. Beirut, at that time was a center for Arab terrorism.
In response, the IDF decided to attack aircraft belonging to Arab airlines, that were at the Beirut Airport for an airborne commando operation.

The Target
Beirut International Airport is located approximately 90 kms (55 miles) north of Rosh-Hanikra, on the Israeli-Lebanon border. It is situated south of the city of Beirut, and approximately two kms eastward from sea. The airport is comprised of two runways crisscrossing scissor-like, in north-south direction. Between the two lanes lies the passenger terminal and in front of it, an open area. At the north-eastern and the south-western edges of the runways, were hangars, parking and maintenance areas for the planes. South of the terminal was the standby emergency services pavilion of the airport, where fire and first-aid stations were located.
In the airport there were only about 90 security men armed primarily with handguns. They worked in three shifts. A Lebanese Army commando company was deployed three kms from the airport, standing by at five-minute alert status. Lebanese Gendarmes and Police in the Beirut area could arrive at the airport in an half hour, and the Armored Car Mobile Gendarmes Unit and other military forces could arrive within an hour after receiving an order. Our air and naval forces did not expect any Lebanese air and naval forces activity, nor did they expect that our activity would be detected by Lebanese radar.

Planning and Preparation
Planning for "Operation Gift" commenced following the plane hijacking on 22 July. The initial intention was to hijack planes in Beirut. Since a basic plan existed, an order went out to IDF General Staff Operations immediately following the Athens plane attack, to revise the Operation Gift contingency plan for the possibility of destroying and not hijacking the aircraft. A similar order was issued to the Israel Air Force, whose aircraft were immediately placed on alert and their serviceability was increased. Two days later, on Saturday, 28 December, the operational task force assembled in Ramat-David Airbase, fully trained and ready for action. An air-head was established in Betzet Airport to enable helicopters to land there in case they should run out of fuel. The mission, which every task force member knew to the letter was: To sabotage the maximum number of airplanes belonging to Arab airlines at Beirut International Airport, while avoiding harm to civilians and damage to aircraft belonging to other airlines; to damage installations, and if the number of planes be small - to sabotage military aircraft that might be in the military area of the airport.

The Plan
The operational plan was as follows (for the map click here):
The airport was divided into three primary operational sectors: the eastern sector, the western sector and the terminal area sector. Each sector was assigned a force of 20-22 fighters. They were commanded from a forward command group headed by the then Chief Paratrooper and Infantry Officer, Brig. Gen. Rafael Eitan, "Raful". The forward command group consisted of 12 fighters, including the Head of the General Staff Operations Branch, Nadal, who was deputy commander of the operation.

A 22-man force from an elite unit under the command of Lt. Col. Uzi ("Uzi Force") was ordered to land in a Super-Frelon helicopter in the north-western edge of the runway. They were to sabotage aircraft on the western part of the airport up to the boundary of the force's sector of operations, the north western corner of the passenger terminal. The force was to then proceed to the "London" evacuation point which was at the intersection of the two runways.

The second force of that unit, comprised of 20 men under the command of the elite unit commander, Maj. Digli ("Digli Force"), was ordered to land in a Super-Frelon south of the area of the main building, and to sabotage the planes there. The troops were then to precede to the "London" evacuation point after completing their mission. They would stand by, and in the event that evacuation would take place by sea, they would secure a bridge head on the shore.

The third force, comprised of 22 men of the 35th Brigade's Reconnaissance Company, commanded by the company commander, Capt. Negbi ("Negbi Force"), was ordered to land in a Super-Frelon on the northern edge of the eastern runway and to sabotage planes situated from that point southward to its sector boundary, the passenger terminal, and to then evacuate in the same manner as the other two forces.

The Helicopter Squadron Commander, Lt. Col. Eliezer "Cheetah" Cohen, who was in a light helicopter along with a Paratroop officer, a flight surgeon and flight mechanic, was ordered to block the area of operations eastward and northward from the air.

It was decided that the sabotage of the aircraft belonging to Arab countries would be effected by two charges, one which would be placed in the landing gear under the aircraft's nose and the second, which would be placed in the landing gear of one of the wings. This would immobilize the aircraft and set it aflame. Each aircraft would be prepared for a separate explosion, although it would be possible to link charges by means of a switch, and to blow up several planes simultaneously dependent upon the conditions on the ground and providing t`hat non-Arab planes would not be damaged.

Evacuation would be carried out by one of the following alternative routes in accordance with conditions in the field:

From the intersection point of the two runways, code-named "London", where the forces were to assemble after completing their mission. Three Super-Frelon helicopters would be tasked to evacuate the forces.

From a point on the seacoast, code-named "Rome". The evacuation would take place by Israel Navy missile boats and naval commando.

From the main runway of the airport, by two Nord aircraft which would land there.

If a mishap were to take place, the force would be evacuated by naval commandos or with the support of 36 soldiers from a special forces battalion, who were standing by to be flown out from Ramat-David Airbase to Beirut Airport.

The entire operation was to last 30 minutes from the landing of the first helicopter until the take-off of the last helicopter for Israel.

"H" hour, which had been set for 22:00 hrs on the 28 December, was advanced by three quarters of an hour following updated intelligence which arrived on Saturday afternoon, 28 December, that the number of aircraft at 21:15 hrs would be greater than that three quarters of an hour later.

The IAF and Israel Navy's Role
The operational plan assigned six Super-Frelon helicopters and two additional helicopters as reserve, for landing the force in three different locations and evacuating them from the point of evacuation.
Seven Bell helicopters (and an additional one in reserve) were tasked: five to serve as the rescue or evacuation force, one for the forward command group, and another for patrol and transmission.
Four Nord aircraft (and additional one in reserve) were tasked: two to evacuate the force, and an additional two for dropping flares, transmission, and naval rescue. Two Boeings would serve for transmission. Two skyhawks and four Vautours were in reserve for illumination and attack, should need arise.
According to the operational plan for the Navy, two Torpedo boats four Saar class missile boats and thirteen rubber dinghies as well as naval commandos were to be in stand-by in the event that naval - air rescue operations would be required. The naval forces were to group at "H" hour six nautical miles off "Rome Beach" and at "H" + thirty minutes, half of the force was to deploy 1,500 meters off the beach. The Torpedo boats were to stand-by 12 nautical miles off the coast. One opposite Tyre and the second opposite Sidon. The naval forces were to reach their objectives by proceeding north twenty-five miles west of the coast, then to reach a point twenty miles off their objectives and then to approach slowly to the coast. The trip from Haifa port to the objective was to last about three and a half hours.

The OPERATION
The helicopters took off from Ramat David Air Base at 20:37 hours. The calculated times to target were 45 minutes for the Super Frelon helicopters and 53 minutes for the Bells. They grouped about twelve kilometers west of Rosh Hanikra and from there approached the coast flying northward. When they approached the airport, the helicopters dropped to 200 - 300 feet, and as of 21:18 hours, three Super Frelons landed at intervals of several minutes. At "H" + 5 minutes, the Bell forward command post landed and the second Bell hovered above, opposite the international airport on a patrol and blocking mission.
Lt. Col. Eliezer (Cheetah) Cohen at the controls of the Bell helicopter was responsible for carrying out the blocking mission. On his first and second passes he dropped 95 smoke grenades and twenty smoke flares which created a heavy smoke screen on the eastern and northern perimeters of the airfield. The helicopter then dropped nails on the roads leading to the airport. This succeeded in halting six cars traveling to the airport. Vehicles in the airport trying to escape northwards to Beirut city and police and fire brigade vehicles traveling to the airport created a traffic jam which in itself constituted an effective block. In addition, Cheetah's helicopter fired warning shots at vehicles trying to enter the airport. When Cheetah spotted what appeared to be a military truck attempting to enter the airport by bypassing the traffic jam, he opened fire at it and the vehicle came to a halt.
Supported by the blocking helicopter, Uzi Digli Negbi forces proceeded to carry out their missions.

"Uzi" Force
Uzi force which landed as planned in the northern edge of the western runway, confronted three groups of aircraft: The first comprised of five planes, the second of two to three planes, and the third of three. Since the planes of the latter group of aircraft were in close proximity to each other, the force blew them up collectively. The troops then secured the area and began to plant explosive charges working from north to south and proceeded to blow up each plane individually. The force avoided entering the military area of the airport where the lights went out as soon as the force landed. Thus, the force did not sabotage a number of planes that were undergoing servicing there.
In total, the force destroyed four planes in the first group while a fifth, a "Dakota" was intentionally spared. The second group was left untouched, while the third group was completely destroyed. In total, six Jets were destroyed.
As the force was planting explosive devices, a vehicle approached the scene. LTC Uzi fired several warning shots over it and it vanished. Warning shots were also fired over the heads of workers who approached and immediately fled the area as they were ordered by LTC Uzi. The force was not hampered as it made its way to the evacuation point.

Digli Force
Digli force which landed South of the open area, moved northwards towards it and detached a force across the airport emergency services building. The force saw four aircraft in the well-lit area. The force positively identified three as Lebanese aircraft. However, the fourth was difficult to identify as it faced the force.
The force thus decided to deal with the three positively identified craft and destroyed three planes. Two squads were ordered to approach two planes, plant explosive charges and when they called out "ready" they received the order to operate the devices, as the force receded so as to not get hurt from the explosion.
Later, an additional squad was sent to the third plane. During the operation, light fire was directed at the squad from a passenger building. The two remaining squads fired warning shots at the building, so as not to injure civilians. This allowed for the first squad to sabatoge the third aircraft. The force later moved on to the evacuation point.

Negbi Force
Negbi force landed in its designated point and from there moved south along the eastern lane. The advance squad reported all Lebanese planes it encountered, after which a demolition team was sent to it. Four planes were identified, one of which was discovered inside a hanger. Capt. Negbi intended to destroy all four planes simultaneously, which is why he waited till all devices were planted. He then gave the order to blow up the planes. However, the order which was issued by megaphone was not heard inside the hanger. Only when the squad members noticed the rest of the force members were receding, did they detonate the devices and pull out. Apparently, the aircraft in the hangar did not blow up. However, to avoid complications, the force withdrew southward to the airport fuel installation which was behind and east of the passenger building. The force requested to sabotage the fuel depot but was refused permission by the forward command group. Therefore, the force proceeded to the evacuation point.

Evacuation
Since Negbi force was the first to reach the evacuation point, it prepared two trapezes as a sign for the evacuating helicopters. At 21:47 hrs, the first helicopter landed to evacuate the force, and fifteen minutes later, the third ? helicopter took off from Beirut International Airport on its way south to Israel.

The Naval Force
The naval force which left Haifa at "H" -three-and-a-half hours sailed northwards towards Sidon. En routte it was forced to return one of the torpedo boats (the one that was supposed to be positioned across Tyre) due to a motor failure in the craft. The force (with the exception of the single torpedo boat which positioned itself between Tyre and Sidon) stood by 1.5 Kms off the Beirut Coast and observed the destruction of the aircraft. After it received a report that the ground force was evacuated safely, the naval force returned to Haifa Naval Base.

Results
In Operation Gift a total of 14 planes belonging to Middle East Airlines (MEA) and Air Libea were destroyed (two Boeing 707; three Commet C - 4; Caravel; Viscount planes; and 1V.C. -10). Estimated damage was 42 - 44 million dollars.

http://www.idf.il/newsite/english/main.stm[/b]

One

11-21-2003, 05:04 PM

I don't know if you don't consider blowing up a bunch of planes a barbaric act then what is?

IDFM203

11-21-2003, 05:04 PM

One

11-21-2003, 05:10 PM

Haiw

11-21-2003, 05:13 PM

IDFM203

11-21-2003, 05:15 PM

You just proved my point IDF. You said that PLO blowing up 4 planes is barbaric, yet when Israel (a government not an organization) blows up arab airlines its not barbaric but hypocrate :roll:

Salam :D no they (the arab terrorists) hijecked planes and killed civilain passengers!!!!!!

if the arab terrortst only at first went after empty planes that would be a differnt story. then when israel reponded it would be also a justified eye for an eye response.

but that is not what we are talking about!!

the arab terirists did hijackings of civilian planes while civilians were on it and they have also killed passengers!!!

Israel in response only blew up empty planes that did not have civilians on it.....big differnce!!!

shalom :D

IDFM203

11-21-2003, 05:23 PM

ok so if i get this operation straight:

some arab terrorists did some bad stuff with israeli planes
Hey only with your type of language (“bad stuff”) can you somehow equate civilian deaths and hijacking with civilians on it as equall to empty planes with no civilians on it being blown up :roll:

wud be like going over to jerusalem to blow up El Al planes after some jewish extremists fired some shots at our KLM planes... :roll: yeah those "Jewish extremists" :roll: Boy they are numorous :roll: rofl oh and they are feared :roll: rofl oh and them blowing up KLM planes :roll: rofl

oh and yeah I know you were sarcastic and “joking”, as is my response…….

Shalom :D

S'13

11-21-2003, 05:38 PM

ok so if i get this operation straight:

some arab terrorists did some bad stuff with israeli planes
so israel went up to beirut to go blow up planes from arab air companys?!?!?

wud be like going over to jerusalem to blow up El Al planes after some jewish extremists fired some shots at our KLM planes... :roll:

Only the Israeli government doesn't shelter Jewish extremists like the Lebanese government did with the Arab terrorists.
:bash:

The operation was a message to the Lebanese government...

S'13

11-21-2003, 05:56 PM

One

11-21-2003, 06:11 PM

I don't know if you don't consider blowing up a bunch of planes a barbaric act then what is?

You want to know what I consider a barbaric act?

Going into a kindergarten and taking the children hostage and killing one of them (a three year old) is considerd by me a barbaric act.

Going into a school and taking the students hostage and then killing 21 of those students is considerd by me a barbaric act.

Going into someones home and killing a father and his daughter while the mother is hiding with her baby daughter and gagging her so her crying won't bring them to there death, the baby girl choked and died leaving the mother alive but her whole family dead. That my friend is what I consider barbaric.

By the way all the terrorist acts mentioned above were carried out by terrorists who came from Lebanon, I wonder if the Lebanese people are proud of this.

Lebanon was in a civil war for 20 years in which these acts took place so dont blame the lebanese government or I will blame Israel for the sabra and chatila massacare as they were in charge of the area in wich the massacare took place :).

Anyways you forgot to mention that Israel tortures prisoners, takes into captivity children under the age of 18 kids as young as 8 years old. Thats the same as kidnaping kids from a school. Also these kids are taken to prisons with adults. All these acts in the eyes of Israel are humane right?

Haiw

11-21-2003, 06:16 PM

ok people...repeat after me...

HYPOTHETICAL

now idfm203; i said 'bad stuff' cus i didnt feel like listing everything to the letter and getting corrected later..the point is...that it's you pretty much did this:
a = lebanon
b = israel

-terrorists from country A commit terrorist acts on or against airplanes from an airline company of country B
-country B wants to retaliate
-so country B goes off blowing up some planes from airline companies that are located in country A....

might just be me, but to me THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!
it's like having two children and punishing one for something that was done by the other...

IDFM203

11-21-2003, 06:26 PM

Anyways you forgot to mention that Israel tortures prisoners, no it uses interrogation techniques on “ticking time bombs” meaning a lot of these prisoners aren’t these innocent people, but have innocent blood on their hands and they know of others that are planning attacks.

Israel only uses those techniques on those people and not on every prisoner

takes into captivity children under the age of 18 kids as young as 8 years old. Thats the same as kidnaping kids from a school. Also these kids are taken to prisons with adults. All these acts in the eyes of Israel are humane right? oh you mean those kids?? :roll: The ones that are indoctrinated to kill innocents and to blow themselves up in their ”righteous cause”…yeah it is humane to put them in prison ( when caught in the act or in attampt of it)after they do that or so they wont do any more attacking. Heck its a lot more humane then purposely targeting and killing our Jewish babies and children that your side does.

Here are some pics of these “wonderful peaceful kids”

http://www.israel-wat.com/child2.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/21.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/child6.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/kid.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/kid11.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/kids22.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/show12.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/pic5.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/pic6.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/q6q.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/y9.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/march4.jpg
http://www.israel-wat.com/g4k_eng.jpg

shalom :D

S'13

11-21-2003, 06:27 PM

Lebanon was in a civil war for 20 years in which these acts took place so dont blame the lebanese government or I will blame Israel for the sabra and chatila massacare as they were in charge of the area in wich the massacare took place .

The civil war in Lebanon broke out in April 1975.
The student massacre occured on the 15th of May 1974.
I have another example of an attack carried out by terrorists who came from Lebanon before the civil war there started:

Nahariya/Avivim School Bus Attack, 1970
On May 8, 1970 there was a brutal attack on an Israeli school bus by Palestinian terrorists who crossed the Lebanese border.

Avivim, an agricultural community established in 1963, is just metres from the border with Lebanon. Settled and built from the ground up by Moroccan immigrants, the majority of the residents belonged to one of two families; Peretz or Biton. The local council bus picked up children each morning to take them to two schools.

The terrorists knew the schedule of the bus and were able to ambush it. They fired on the bus, killing the adults instantly. The bus driver continued until he himself was shot. Then the bus crashed, injuring many of the remaining children. The attack caused the death of 9 children (aged between six and nine) and 3 adults, and left 19 others crippled for life.

The terrorists were never apprehended

Anyways you forgot to mention that Israel tortures prisoners, takes into captivity children under the age of 18 kids as young as 8 years old. Thats the same as kidnaping kids from a school. Also these kids are taken to prisons with adults. All these acts in the eyes of Israel are humane right?

I have given examples of my accusations and all we have is your word that Israel "takes into captivity children" is there any proof of this?
And if so does Israel murderer them in cold blood?

IDFM203

11-21-2003, 06:49 PM

-terrorists from country A commit terrorist acts on or against airplanes from an airline company of country B
-country B wants to retaliate
-so country B goes off blowing up some planes from airline companies that are located in country A....

. No, the key thing to know and understand is that Lebanon (country A) is a nation that harboured and fully supported those terrorists (oh and this is way before Israel entered into Lebanon). In fact those terrorists had their headquarters in Beirut and had a lot of power in the affairs of that country. Besides all that, other Arab nations actively supported these groups in their attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers

In your example as I correct it now….

a = lebanon
b = israel

– Terrorists from country A commit terrorist acts against civilians on airplanes and kills some people as well from country B

-Country B retaliates by blowing up some empty planes of country A as a message and a warning to them and to all the other Arab states that it should stop actively helping and participating in terrorists acts against country B

A more harsh response would have been if country B retaliated by hijacking planes with civilians on it and killing country A's civilians………but no, all it did was blow up empty ones as a warning

I think that was a restrained response!!

Just to note. When you say country A, there should also be with it C,D,E etc.. For other Arab nations supported and helped in these and in other terrorist attacks

Shalom :D

One

11-21-2003, 10:53 PM

Palestinians were in lebanon yes, came to Israel yes was lebanon able to stop them no. Why you ask? Simple lebanon was in a mess there was a government but it had no power to do anything.

Torture of prisoners? Ask any prisoner who spent time in Israeli prisons and he will tell you.

I will take one case, Samir Al Kuntar (oldest lebanese prisoner) sent a letter to his parents and the red cross a couple years after he was arrested. When he was shot he was taken to prison and a doctor performed 6 operations to remove 7 bullets from his body. In his letters to the red cross he said that the doctor shuved his fingers in the wound "to check how deep the bullet went in". All bullets were removed without the use of anestethia. The 7th bullet was left in his body "to remind him that he was shot by the IDF".

The use of hot water followed by extremely cold water is another method. Being hand cuffed to a window for 48 days was a second. Also he was put in a room that was 1m X 1m.

Thats one of many stories.

Also from ha'artz an article about an Israeli facility that uses torture to extract information http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=331637

Salam :D

[AFSOC]

11-22-2003, 12:49 AM

Ratamacue

11-22-2003, 12:54 AM

The Palestinian terrorists have decided to fight (against civilians), so Israel fights back with a sledgehammer. Simple as that.

One

11-22-2003, 01:03 AM

The Palestinian terrorists have decided to fight (against civilians), so Israel fights back with a sledgehammer. Simple as that.

Israel buil the settlements on the so called palestinian land after many agreements. When palestinians attack settlements they usualy attack the soldeirs.

The palestinian say since everyone over 18 in Israel they get drafted to the army thus making most of the Israeli population soldeirs. When they hit buses or whatever they are targeting soldeirs in civilian clothes. (palestinian view).

IDFM203

11-22-2003, 01:31 AM

To "one",

Listen I want to make something very clear. I do not nor will I ever condone an innocent man being tortured

Are there innocent man in Israeli jails. Yes!! Were some perhaps tortured, probably yes!! Do I think its right, No!!

Just for the record before I start, most prisoners are not tortured and most are not in that jail that you posted in the article

No, only the most dangerous or suspected of that, go to that jail but again most Arabs that are in Israeli jails do not go there nor are they tortured. (Even in that jail)

Now with that said, I think I need to put some factual context to all this. Israel has been in constant conflict for the past fifty years against numerous and multipule enemies that surround it. On top of that, there are numerous terrorist organisations that fight against Israel either independently or with the help of those nations.

Now on a daily basis there are over 40 terrorist warnings and numerous infiltration attempts. There are numerous homicide bombers or snipers or others with deadly intentions, that are on the loose at all times and are just waiting for the right time to attack. These “ticking time bombs” are very dangerous and it is the responsibility of the state of Israel to use its security forces to try to find them and stop them before they strike and kill more innocent civilians or soldiers. One of the many methods is interrogation methods and depending on the severity of the threat or what’s known about that individual, the harsher the interrogation is to find out the information on other “ticking time bombs”

I think in most cases it is justified but I will grant you that there are some, where it is not and in those it is regretful. Like I have said before, in my opinion Israel has been for the most part morally correct in the way it has fought against numerous odds in the past fifty years but at the same token it is not perfect(as is no one) and as such it does make mistakes or it does at times do regrettable things.

I think however it is quite insulting to any sane individual to try to even compare the way Israel treats prisoners and the way the Arabs do. I mean besides the fact that in these totalitarian dictatorship regimes that what a lot of those Arab countries that surround Israel are, where there is no freedom of the press like in Israel (where you see you can have the leftist harratz take a critical look at Israel’s actions) to even have a “peek” as to what they do, it is commonly known that most prisoners especially Israeli ones are tortured to where actual limbs are cut off, and a lot are flat out tortured to death!!! None of that happens in Israeli jails!!!!!

As for your “When Palestinians attack settlements they usually attack the soldiers.” Most of the times they are not even targeting these, but they are targeting civilian busses and restaurants in Israeli cities.

In fact, the fact that they target most of the times Israeli civilians in Israeli cities just further shows how this has nothing to do with the 1967 borders but it is about the whole Israel.

And your next statement “The Palestinian say since everyone over 18 in Israel they get drafted to the army thus making most of the Israeli population soldeirs. When they hit buses or whatever they are targeting soldeirs in civilian clothes.”

Hmmm so women and children are soldiers?!? :roll: Even if you say women are in the army, most of them never served in combat roles!!

Besides when someone is out of uniform and not in the army, they are civilians, period!!!

P.S. I thought in the other thread you said that because I brought in that Israeli soldier here, you would stop to argue with me………oh well ;) :roll:

Shalom :D

IDFM203

11-22-2003, 01:33 AM

"If the Palestinians put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Israelis put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel"!! (Or to put it more bluntly..” if the military capabilities of israel and the palestinians were reversed, all Israelis would be killed in a matter of 24 hours or less”)

I have to comment on that gay quote.....what Weapons does PALESTINE havE??? Cause they sure dont have airplanes like Israel does, or tanks etc. First of all they have ten’s of thousands of AK47’s and M16’s (which thier numerous snipers and gunman use). They have thousands of mortars, they have hundreds of rockets (kassam) they have tons and tons of RPG’s, they have bombs that can destroy a tank and they have their homicide bombers!!

Secondly read carefully my sigline. I say if they will put down THEIR weapons...Now that doesn’t mean they have what Israel has. Yes they don’t have it now but what ever they do have they use ALL of it to the maximum and most certainly if they had what Israel had they would not be restrained as israel is but they surly would use ALL of it to the maximum as well!!!!

My quote is the harsh reality that Israel is facing, whether you want to recognize that or not!!! (or call it gay?? :roll: for that matter)

Honestly.....with quotes like that, thats why people dont like ISRAEL, Honestly..... its with ignoramuses like you as to why there are anti Semites in this world. Learn the facts and more importantly learn exactly what I am saying and not misunderstand it as you have done here.

As for the rest of your post. Go read my other threads for I am not going to go over everything with you.

Shalom :D

S'13

11-22-2003, 07:02 AM

I will take one case, Samir Al Kuntar (oldest lebanese prisoner) sent a letter to his parents and the red cross a couple years after he was arrested. When he was shot he was taken to prison and a doctor performed 6 operations to remove 7 bullets from his body. In his letters to the red cross he said that the doctor shuved his fingers in the wound "to check how deep the bullet went in". All bullets were removed without the use of anestethia. The 7th bullet was left in his body "to remind him that he was shot by the IDF"

You forgot to mention this man (if you can call him a man) is responsible for the death of a little girl, her father, her baby sister and leaving the mother with her whole family dead...

PORTRAIT OF A MONSTER

Someone else who is very aptly named is Samir Kuntar. In order to keep this a PG-rated site, I will not elaborate on this except to allow Smadar Haran's words do the talking:
Abu Abbas, the former head of a Palestinian terrorist group who was captured in Iraq on April 15, is infamous for masterminding the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro. But there are probably few who remember why Abbas's terrorists held the ship and its 400-plus passengers hostage for two days. It was to gain the release of a Lebanese terrorist named Samir Kuntar, who is locked up in an Israeli prison for life. Kuntar's name is all but unknown to the world. But I know it well. Because almost a quarter of a century ago, Kuntar murdered my family.

It was a murder of unimaginable cruelty, crueler even than the murder of Leon Klinghoffer, the American tourist who was shot on the Achille Lauro and dumped overboard in his wheelchair. Kuntar's mission against my family, which never made world headlines, was also masterminded by Abu Abbas. And my wish now is that this terrorist leader should be prosecuted in the United States, so that the world may know of all his terrorist acts, not the least of which is what he did to my family on April 22, 1979.

It had been a peaceful Sabbath day. My husband, Danny, and I had picnicked with our little girls, Einat, 4, and Yael, 2, on the beach not far from our home in Nahariya, a city on the northern coast of Israel, about six miles south of the Lebanese border. Around midnight, we were asleep in our apartment when four terrorists, sent by Abu Abbas from Lebanon, landed in a rubber boat on the beach two blocks away. Gunfire and exploding grenades awakened us as the terrorists burst into our building. They had already killed a police officer. As they charged up to the floor above ours, I opened the door to our apartment. In the moment before the hall light went off, they turned and saw me. As they moved on, our neighbor from the upper floor came running down the stairs. I grabbed her and pushed her inside our apartment and slammed the door.

Outside, we could hear the men storming about. Desperately, we sought to hide. Danny helped our neighbor climb into a crawl space above our bedroom; I went in behind her with Yael in my arms. Then Danny grabbed Einat and was dashing out the front door to take refuge in an underground shelter when the terrorists came crashing into our flat. They held Danny and Einat while they searched for me and Yael, knowing there were more people in the apartment. I will never forget the joy and the hatred in their voices as they swaggered about hunting for us, firing their guns and throwing grenades. I knew that if Yael cried out, the terrorists would toss a grenade into the crawl space and we would be killed. So I kept my hand over her mouth, hoping she could breathe. As I lay there, I remembered my mother telling me how she had hidden from the Nazis during the Holocaust. "This is just like what happened to my mother," I thought.

As police began to arrive, the terrorists took Danny and Einat down to the beach. There, according to eyewitnesses, one of them shot Danny in front of Einat so that his death would be the last sight she would ever see. Then he smashed my little girl's skull in against a rock with his rifle butt. That terrorist was Samir Kuntar.
By the time we were rescued from the crawl space, hours later, Yael, too, was dead. In trying to save all our lives, I had smothered her.

The next day, Abu Abbas announced from Beirut that the terrorist attack in Nahariya had been carried out "to protest the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty" at Camp David the previous year. Abbas seems to have a gift for charming journalists, but imagine the character of a man who protests an act of peace by committing an act of slaughter.

Two of Abbas's terrorists had been killed by police on the beach. The other two were captured, convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Despite my protests, one was released in a prisoner exchange for Israeli POWs several months before the Achille Lauro hijacking. Abu Abbas was determined to find a way to free Kuntar as well. So he engineered the hijacking of the Achille Lauro off the coast of Egypt and demanded the release of 50 Arab terrorists from Israeli jails. The only one of those prisoners actually named was Samir Kuntar. The plight of hundreds held hostage on a cruise ship for two days at sea lent itself to massive international media coverage. The attack on Nahariya, by contrast, had taken less than an hour in the middle of the night. So what happened then was hardly noticed outside of Israel.

One hears the terrorists and their excusers say that they are driven to kill out of desperation. But there is always a choice. Even when you have suffered, you can choose whether to kill and ruin another's life, or whether to go on and rebuild. Even after my family was murdered, I never dreamed of taking revenge on any Arab.

But I am determined that Samir Kuntar should never be released from prison. In 1984, I had to fight my own government not to release him as part of an exchange for several Israeli soldiers who were POWs in Lebanon. I understood, of course, that the families of those POWs would gladly have agreed to the release of an Arab terrorist to get their sons back. But I told Yitzhak Rabin, then defense minister, that the blood of my family was as red as that of the POWs. Israel had always taken a position of refusing to negotiate with terrorists. If they were going to make an exception, let it be for a terrorist who was not as cruel as Kuntar. "Your job is not to be emotional," I told Rabin, "but to act rationally." And he did.

So Kuntar remains in prison. I have been shocked to learn that he has married an Israeli Arab woman who is an activist on behalf of terrorist prisoners. As the wife of a prisoner, she gets a monthly stipend from the government. I'm not too happy about that.

In recent years, Abu Abbas started telling journalists that he had renounced terrorism and that killing Leon Klinghoffer had been a mistake. But he has never said that killing my family was a mistake. He was a terrorist once, and a terrorist, I believe, he remains. Why else did he spend these last years, as the Israeli press has reported, free as a bird in Baghdad, passing rewards of $25,000 from Saddam Hussein to families of Palestinian suicide bombers? More than words, that kind of cash prize, which is a fortune to poor families, was a way of urging more suicide bombers. The fortunate thing about Abbas's attaching himself to Hussein is that it set him up for capture.

Some say that Italy should have first crack at Abbas. It had already convicted him of the Achille Lauro hijacking in absentia in 1986. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi now wants Abbas handed over so that he can begin serving his life sentence. But it's also true that in 1985, the Italians had Abbas in their hands after U.S. fighter jets forced his plane to land in Sicily. And yet they let him go. So while I trust Berlusconi, who knows if a future Italian government might not again wash its hands of Abbas?

In 1995, Rabin, then our prime minister, asked me to join him on his trip to the White House, where he was to sign a peace agreement with Yasser Arafat, which I supported. I believe that he wanted me to represent all Israeli victims of terrorism. Rabin dreaded shaking hands with Arafat, knowing that those hands were bloody. At first, I agreed to make the trip, but at the last minute, I declined. As prime minister, Rabin had to shake hands with Arafat for political reasons. As a private person, I did not. So I stayed here.

Now I am ready and willing to come to the United States to testify against Abu Abbas if he is tried for terrorism. The daughters of Leon Klinghoffer have said they are ready to do the same. Unlike Klinghoffer, Danny, Einat and Yael were not American citizens. But Klinghoffer was killed on an Italian ship in Abbas's attempt to free the killer of my family in Israel. We are all connected by the international web of terrorism woven by Abbas. Let the truth come out in a new and public trial. And let it be in the United States, the leader in the struggle against terrorism.
And now Hezbollah is threatening no prisoner-exchange deal without Kuntar's release. I doubt the Israeli government will be willing to set him free; I certainly hope not.

At times like this I regret the fact that Israel has no death penalty...

S'13

11-22-2003, 07:09 AM

I have to comment on that gay quote.....what Weapons does PALESTINE havE??? Cause they sure dont have airplanes like Israel does, or tanks etc.

What weapons does Al-Qaida have? Cause they sure dont have airplanes, tanks, aircraft carriers, guided missiles and B-52 bombers like the U.S has. Of course this didn't stop them from killing over 3000 people...

Your hypocrisy is unbearable.

:cantbeli:

UoUo

11-22-2003, 07:11 AM

Samir Al Kuntar

If the other people here just knew what cind of man he is !!!!!

If i whould arrested that man...i shoot him in the head...without any dout.

:bash: :bash:

****ing terrorists.

Mr. Nielsen

11-22-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:
I have to comment on that gay quote.....what Weapons does PALESTINE havE??? Cause they sure dont have airplanes like Israel does, or tanks etc.

What weapons does Al-Qaida have? Cause they sure dont have airplanes, tanks, aircraft carriers, guided missiles and B-52 bombers like the U.S has. Of course this didn't stop them from killing over 3000 people...

Your hypocrisy is unbearable.

The Al-Qaida is a diffuse organisation without foundation in any specific society, and i think not a very relevant comparison.

The palestinians are unarmed in the sense that israeli soldiers, tanks and helicopters can act anywhere they want with impunity.

IDFM203

11-22-2003, 12:06 PM

The palestinians are unarmed in the sense that israeli soldiers, tanks and helicopters can act anywhere they want with impunity...... and before the full military reoccupation of the west bank recently, the Palestinians were acting anywhere with impunity.

repeat what I said to Godson

“First of all they have ten’s of thousands of AK47’s and M16’s (which thier numerous snipers and gunman use). They have thousands of mortars, they have hundreds of rockets (kassam) they have tons and tons of RPG’s, they have bombs that can destroy a tank and they have their homicide bombers!!”

The point is that Israel is very restrained with what it has whereas the Palestinians are not!! Israel does not use a fraction of the real fire power that it has!!!

Again” Secondly read carefully my sigline. I say if they will put down THEIR weapons...Now that doesn’t mean they have what Israel has. Yes they don’t have it now but what ever they do have they use ALL of it to the maximum and most certainly if they had what Israel had they would not be restrained as israel is but they surly would use ALL of it to the maximum as well!!!!

My quote is the harsh reality that Israel is facing, whether you want to recognize that or not!!!

But hey to satisfy your warped sense of reality there, we should just drop our weapons so we can be killed off voluntarily without defending our selves ;) :roll: ….yeah real smart there :roll:

shalom :D

Mr. Nielsen

11-22-2003, 12:10 PM

IDFM203

11-22-2003, 12:16 PM

Thanks guys (s13 and UoUo) on educating on whom this monster is that “one” is defending!!

Damn if I knew that I wouldn’t have even have bothered wasting my time with my other post (although I don’t regret it at all)

I was saddened and sickened to read this…..

the terrorists took Danny and Einat down to the beach. There, according to eyewitnesses, one of them shot Danny in front of Einat so that his death would be the last sight she would ever see. Then he smashed my little girl's skull in against a rock with his rifle butt. That terrorist was Samir Kuntar.
By the time we were rescued from the crawl space, hours later, Yael, too, was dead. In trying to save all our lives, I had smothered her.

Yeah that guy is monster that after reading "one" account of how Israel treated him and how he is in jail and not wrapped in pigskin and buried six feet under, it seems more restrained that I care to even justify. Truly a shame and an injustice that Israel does not have the death penalty!!!

Good one there "one" defending that monster!!! :roll:

Shalom :D

IDFM203

11-22-2003, 12:20 PM

Guttorm

11-22-2003, 12:26 PM

Think this tread just sidetrackt somthing awefull...

So... Here...

http://www.marinejeger.no/images/spyhook1-400.jpg

http://www.marinejeger.no/images/vinter-400x214.jpg

http://www.marinejeger.no/forum/bildegalleri/snapshots/knm636x477.jpg

THERE!!! Back on topic... Naval SF!! WOOHOOO! :D I've SAVED the tread!! I think this means I should get some sort of medal...

S'13

11-22-2003, 01:45 PM

The Al-Qaida is a diffuse organisation without foundation in any specific society, and i think not a very relevant comparison.

It is true that AL-Qaida is a diffuse organisation but it is a terrorist organisation just like the terrorist organisations operating in the territories and uses the same weapons. The fact is that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are no different from AL-Qaida except that AL-Qaida operates in a global scale. I wonder whether Godson supports the U.S war on terror (AL-Qaida in particular) but on the other hand turns a blind eye to the crimes committed by the terrorists in the territories and criticizes Israel's own war on terror. If so, that's a great example of double standards.

S'13

11-22-2003, 02:15 PM

Nice pics Guttorm.

Here are some photos I found:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1750000/images/_1753233_mortar300.jpg

http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/assets/images/arms-ship.jpg

http://www.state.gov/cms_images/karine1.jpg

http://www.zionministry.com/PlanofGod/Chapt1_files/image013.jpg

http://www.aijac.org.au/review/2002/images/karine_a.jpg

Seizing of the Palestinian weapons ship Karine A
January 4, 2002

A ship carrying weapons intended for the Palestinian Authority was captured in the Red Sea by Israel's Navy and Air Force. The boat's cargo included 50 tons of advanced weaponry including Katyusha rockets, rifles, mortar shells, mines and a variety of anti-tank missiles. Senior figures in the Palestinian Authority were involved in the smuggling.

Communicated by the IDF Spokesman:

On January 3rd, the Israeli Navy seized control over the Karine A ship that was sailing in international waters on its way to the Suez Canal.

The shipment included both 122 mm. and 107 mm. Katyusha rockets, which have ranges of 20 and 8 kilometers respectively. It also contained 80 mm. and 120 mm. mortar shells, various types of anti-tank missiles, anti-tank mines, sniper rifles, Kalashnikov rifles and ammunition. From Gaza, the 122 mm. Katyushas could have threatened Ashkelon and other coastal cities; while from the West Bank, Ben-Gurion International Airport and several major Israeli cities would have been within their range. The shipment also included rubber boats and diving equipment, which would have facilitated seaborne attacks from Gaza against coastal cities.

Preliminary investigation of the crew members has revealed so far that the commanding officer of the ship is Colonel Omar Akawi. The ship was purchased by the Palestinian Authority, loaded with weapons by the Iranians and the Hizbullah, manned by Palestinian Authority personnel, with the aim of transfering the weapons it carried to the Palestinian Naval Police near the Gaza beaches.

Since October 2000, Adel Mughrabi, a major buyer in the Palestinian weapons purchasing system (with the assistance of the Palestinian Naval Police Commander Juma'a Ghali and his executive Fathi Ghazem), has been in contact with the Iranians and Hizbullah regarding a vast weapons smuggling operation for the use of the Palestinian Authority. This operation included the testing and purchase of ships, forming a sailing crew and appointing a commander for the team, as well as making arrangements as to how the weapons would be stored, loaded onto the vessels, and its journey until delivery to the Palestinian Authority.

Preliminary investigation of the team members arrested revealed that the Karine A ship was purchased by Adel Mughrabi in Lebanon, sailed to Sudan where it was loaded with regular cargo. The crew was then switched with the team members and in November 2001 sailed to Hodeida port in Yemen.

In December 2001 the ship sailed according to detailed instructions from Adel Mughrabi to the beaches of Iran near Qeshm Island. There a ferry approached it, most likely arriving from Iran, from which the weapons stored in 80 large wooden crates were transferred and loaded onto the ship. These weapons were stored in special waterproof containers produced only in Iran, which are floatable and are set with a special configurable system that determines how deep they are submerged, were prepared by Hizbullah personnel for smuggling to the Palestinian Authority. Included in the ferry team which transferred the weapons crates to the ship was also a Lebanese trainer, a Hizbullah operative who trained a diver from the ship's crew in configuring the floatation devices in Lebanon. The trainer was present for yet another refreshing training session prior to the sailing.

After completing the loading process of the weapons onto the ship, the ship had to divert to Hodeida port in Yemen due to technical problems. After crossing the canal, the ship was supposed to meet with three smaller ships that were purchased in advance and to unload the weapons onto them. According to the plan, the smaller ships were to leave the weapons near El Arish in Gaza, where the weapons were to be taken by the commander of the Palestinian Naval Police Juma'a Ghali and his executive Fathi Ghazem.

When it's written that the "Israeli Navy seized control over the Karine A ship" that means Shayetet 13 seized control over the Karine A ship. ;)

Guttorm

11-22-2003, 03:06 PM

Mr. Nielsen

11-22-2003, 03:25 PM

Quote:
The Al-Qaida is a diffuse organisation without foundation in any specific society, and i think not a very relevant comparison.

It is true that AL-Qaida is a diffuse organisation but it is a terrorist organisation just like the terrorist organisations operating in the territories and uses the same weapons. The fact is that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are no different from AL-Qaida except that AL-Qaida operates in a global scale.

My point was that the Al-Qaida have no society, no land and cities to defend. For kind of actions the undertake I guess they have plenty of what they need.

The Palestinians on their part have a society, farms and fields, cities and villages. If israel wants to drive tanks through Ramallah they just do that. If they want to bulldoze a house for whatever reason they just do that. If they want a farmers land to build a settlement or enlarge one they just do that. And the palestinians can do nothing about it.

And if they blow-up a merkava with a homemade bomb, however impressive that might be, thats not going to deter the iDF from driving their tanks wherever they want.

[AFSOC]

11-22-2003, 03:27 PM

IDFM203

11-22-2003, 03:36 PM

Im an Anti Semtist now??? Ok there buddy....i said ISRAEL not JEWS. Get it right you dick before you start calling me something im not.

hey canuck, get your head out of your………….. :roll:

I never called you an anti-semite. I said it’s because of ignoramuses like you that anti Semitism exists, meaning that ignorance is a cause of anti Semitism.

Oh and you might think there is a difference but to me being anti Israel the way YOU are is being anti Jewish despite all your future protesting of how your just against Israel’s policies and blah blah ……

As for the rest of your flaming post, seeing as your a child here and are obviously looking to just have a flame war, I am not going to get into it with you.

If you were respectful and really into a constructive debate as others are, I would make that effort, but seeing as your a flamer, and as such, its not worth me getting it into with you.

Regardless,

Shalom to you :D

S'13

11-22-2003, 03:39 PM

Im an Anti Semtist now??? Ok there buddy....i said ISRAEL not JEWS. Get it right you dick before you start calling me something im not.

Palestinians may have AK's and AR's but soo do Bloods and Krypts. Do we go around bombing them?

You guys are going over to Palestine and just bombing the **** out of them and claiming that its all terrorist related.

Last week one of CBC's broadcasters interviewed the Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, and the man had denied the mass casualites of civilians.

Grow up...

Right now I'm deciding whether I should cry or laugh because of what you wrote. Maybe after your local shopping center or bus stop will get blown up you will understand what Israel is going through almost every day.
Your not an Anti Semtist but a plain idiot...

S'13

11-22-2003, 03:43 PM

I bet ya, on the cargo manifest of that ship, the cap had put "stuff"... :D

Israeli SF over VHF: "Please state what cargo your ship is carrying sir"

Captain : "100 kg of food.... And three tons of.... Stuff"

:D

rofl rofl rofl

I think that by the time they noticed an Israeli SF unit was on there ship they were half way to Eilat... ;)

fantassin

11-22-2003, 04:32 PM

As an answer to Royal;

BPT still exists and is doing well, standing currently around 30 ML2 qualified Marines; BRF, or Brigade Recce Force or Raiding Force during Telic is a different, ad hoc unit that is put together depending on the mission to be accomplished.

It is normally centered around BPT but can also be reinforced with 148 Bty, Y Tp (EW), a Cdo Recce Tp, one or several of 3 Cdo Bgde TACP, 59 Sqdn Recce Tp and so on, depending on the task at hand.

During Telic, BRF was at one point reinforced with the Scimitars of C Sqdn QDG for the seizure of objective "Sennen" during Op James with 40 Cdo.
Hardly an SF unit by any standard but goes to show the BRF principle of "hosting" units.

As for this thread, another fine example of the pervading effect of the never ending israeli-palestinian debate; it reads "naval SF units" and you end up having to wade through four pages of sionist propaganda before reading anything relevant to the thread; typical...[/quote]

IDFM203

11-22-2003, 04:45 PM

As for this thread, another fine example of the pervading effect of the never ending israeli-palestinian debate; it reads "naval SF units" and you end up having to wade through four pages of sionist propaganda before reading anything relevant to the thread; typical...I will grant you that its sad but the fact that you call it Zionist propaganda without calling attention to the Arab or other propaganda that was displayed here just shows how "non partial" or "concerned" you really feel
To me it sounds like you tried to be holier then thou and then throw in that comment :roll:

If your so concerned then just post you naval sf info and don’t comment on the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict debate or make your one liners about it!! Frankly its hypocrtical to complian about it and then make you own snide remark!!

oh well.............................. :roll: .

Now watch, this is the whole problem.

Whenever an Israeli posts something about the military (which this is militaryphotos.net after all) it invariably “invites” some one to make their snide anti Israel propaganda heard.,

In an attempt to get this back to the original topic, here is another photo of Israels Shayetet 13

http://www.isayeret.com/units/sea/shayetet/s13-71.jpg

(Now lets see how long this lasts untill we see some poster go off topic about the whole debate (again).......... :roll: )

shalom :D

S'13

11-22-2003, 04:48 PM

About the beginning of Shayetet 13:

Within the IDF (Israeli Defense Force) Navy exists an elite unite of commandos known as the Bat Men. Their official name is Shayetet 13, or Flotilla 13, and they are responsible for the IDF Navy's Special Warfare capabilities. Flotilla 13 can trace it's roots back to the birth of the Israeli nation, and in their service they have managed to carve an international reputation as one of the best, if not most experienced, naval special warfare units in the world.

Israel's Naval Commandos under go a rigorous selection phase like most other elite units. In the case of the Naval Commandos, however, the initial selection phase stresses psychological toughness and tests hopefulls in their ability to take and operate under stress and fear. There is not a big push to weed out those unfit for the unit quickly, the training process is long and hard, with plenty of time for those who don't quite match up to move on to other units. In all, a potential Shayetet 13 operator will have to undergo almost a year and 8 months or training before he can pin on the coveted crest of the unit.

After the selection phase, trainee's attend the IDF's Bislach (infantry school) for two-and-a-half months of advanced infantry training. Following completion of this school, they next are sent to a 3 week HALO/HAHO school to learn the foundation of parachute ops. Following this school the trainees are asigned to ****** Naval Base to complete their training, receiving their underwater and counter-terrorism training at this point.

The Naval Commandos have a wide range of weapons to choose from, ranging from small arms to fast attack boats. The basic weapon carried is the American M-4/M4A1/M203 assault rifle. Members are also expected to be proficient with the AK-47 as these are the main rifles of their adversaries. If heavier power is needed the Negev 5.56 light machine gun is provided. For underwater sabotage missions, each diver can carry a limpet mine to attach to the hull of enemy watercraft or docks. The commandos ride to locations in zodiac inflatibles or the larger, faster Snunit fast attack craft.

From the beginning, the Israeli military has been a different breed. Lacking the funds and raw manpower to fight pitched battles with large standing armies, the Israeli military has been forced to use tactics and cunning to fight numerically (and often technologically) superior opponents. Shayet 13 members reflect this; many of their missions took place with newly created equipment or weapons.

The Israeli State was created in May of 1948 after Britain gave up its efforts to maintain the Palestinian region as a British Colony. However, the roots of the nation and its armed forces date back to the early 1930's when Adolf Hitler's government began to actively persecute German Jews. They began fleeing the country, some to America, and so