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pinkeye
11-12-2003, 03:04 PM
A State Law Would Pin the T-Word on Animal-Rights and Eco Protesters
Terrorist Tactics
by Ginger Adams Otis
November 12 - 18, 2003

More than fur would fly when animal rights activists and, perhaps, environmental groups mount protests in New York, under a new law proposed by an upstate legislator: Protesters would be considered "terrorists."

New York is one of several states currently considering legislation that could define certain animal rights and environmental groups as terrorist organizations. The sponsor of the bill, Assembly Member Richard Smith, a Democrat from the Buffalo suburb of Blasdell, says it was written to curtail the activities of extremists who "bomb research labs and torch ski camps." Opponents of the bill point out that much of the wording of bill A4884 (and a companion bill in the state senate) was lifted directly from language created by the American Legislative Exchange Council, an influential conservative D.C. lobby.

ALEC's model legislation, drawn up by its "Homeland Security Working Group," is called the Animal and Ecological Terrorist Act, and it ostensibly focuses solely on groups like Earth Liberation Front and Animal Liberation Front, which have attacked homes and development projects that threatened the habitat of several species. But more mainstream groups, such as People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), are also targeted by ALEC as a "threat," and the bill would back that up with severe action.

For activists, the danger lies in how A4884 defines "terrorist" organizations, as "any association, organization, entity, coalition, or combination of two or more persons with the primary or incidental purpose of supporting any politically motivated activity through intimidation, coercion, fear, or other means." Activist groups fear that lawful dissent, such as demonstrations, letter-writing campaigns, and leafleting, might fall into any one of those categories, particularly the catchall phrase "other means." The bill also seeks to prohibit people from gathering photographic or videotaped evidence of illegal or harmful activities, effectively shutting down the camcorders and other tools used by 21st-century protesters. Additionally, the bill calls for the creation of a state-run website where people convicted of "eco-terrorism or animal-rights terrorism" would be identified with photographs and stigmatized, much as states do with child molesters.

Some version of the bill may make it to the general assembly floor, perhaps not until 2004, but PETA takes it seriously. "There are already numerous laws on the books to prosecute activists who cross the line, like trespassing, breaking and entering, and burglary," says PETA general counsel Jeffrey Kerr. "This bill is clearly aimed at stifling opposition to animal and environmental exploitation by companies that make a living from it."

Assemblyman Smith insists that the bill doesn't threaten First Amendment rights. "My bill in no way aims to stop picketing or leafleting," he says, "but there are some radicals out there who consistently brag that they've started fires and destroyed property, and they've got to be penalized. Those radicals are the ones I'm looking for."

Other states considering the legislation are Ohio, Oregon, Missouri, and Pennsylvania. Oklahoma enacted such a bill last spring, but similar legislation introduced in Texas recently died in committee. In New York, ALEC established a beachhead through the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance, one of several powerful pro-hunting groups active in upstate areas. ALEC, says spokesman Bob Adams, talked about the legislation with the hunting lobby, and Smith says the hunters talked about it with him.

Kerr and other lawyers contend that the animal- and eco-rights movements already are in the crosshairs of the Bush administration. At the moment all eyes are on Greenpeace, which ran afoul of the Department of Justice last year after two activists boarded a boat carrying wood that Greenpeace says was illegally exported from the Amazon and hung banners over the side that read "President Bush: Stop Illegal Logging." For that act, Greenpeace has been charged with violating an obscure and ancient "sailormongering" law that prohibits unauthorized persons from boarding a boat before it's moored.

And when it comes to proposed laws like the one being considered in New York, ALEC has the administration's ear. Its annual meeting this past July in D.C. drew such speakers as Vice President **** Cheney and Homeland Security czar Tom Ridge. The group gave Cheney its Thomas Jefferson Freedom Award, praising him for his "commitment" to "individual liberty." Cheney told the gathering of more than 2,000 legislators and others, "We will not wait in false comfort while terrorists plot against innocent Americans. We will not permit outlaw states and terror groups to join forces in a deadly alliance that could threaten the lives of millions of Americans."

usa320
11-12-2003, 03:11 PM
Could this mean the end of them "Save the Whale hippies"?

Dear god i hope so...

rofl

pinkeye
11-12-2003, 03:14 PM
yeah, let's just kill all the whales, and while we're at it, let's kill all animals and chop down all the trees. your post is hella dumb.

martinexsquaddie
11-12-2003, 03:20 PM
we've already got the Met using anti-terror laws against hippys.
I thought the point of defending freedom was that people are free even if they are hippys and smell a bit :o

...
11-12-2003, 03:30 PM
"Nuke the whales" -Nelson Muntz

WARPIG
11-12-2003, 03:31 PM
Your comment is hella dumb. The post is a good topic.
It seems like the aggressive law making in NY may set a precedence for the other states to adopt similar laws. This would severely impact groups in protest of a great many things. Animal rights activists, environmental, and racial groups like the Black Panthers and KKK would have to severely tone down their lobbying. Sounds good. What about groups that protest certain laws or politcians? For instance a group protesting a tax increase could be catagorized as using "other means" to terrorize law makers. This has all the implications of creating a whole new frivelous law suite genre. "The opposing football team threatened to leave no survivors at our homecoming game." So, the Sunnyside Beavers are under investigation for terrorist acts. I think Mr. Ridge needs to refill his prescription of perspective. A vague law like that could be pretty harmful.

pinkeye
11-12-2003, 03:39 PM
Your comment is hella dumb. The post is a good topic.
It seems like the aggressive law making in NY may set a precedence for the other states to adopt similar laws. This would severely impact groups in protest of a great many things. Animal rights activists, environmental, and racial groups like the Black Panthers and KKK would have to severely tone down their lobbying. Sounds good. What about groups that protest certain laws or politcians? For instance a group protesting a tax increase could be catagorized as using "other means" to terrorize law makers. This has all the implications of creating a whole new frivelous law suite genre. "The opposing football team threatened to leave no survivors at our homecoming game." So, the Sunnyside Beavers are under investigation for terrorist acts. I think Mr. Ridge needs to refill his prescription of perspective. A vague law like that could be pretty harmful.

i don't see how forcing environmental groups to tone down their lobbying is a good thing, while we continue to let corporations to rape the land? and the abuse of animals needs to end, but in your world animals and the environment are just there be ruthlessly exploited? is that what you are saying? furthermore, as my colleague martinexsquaddie has pointed out, legislation of this kind erodes fundamental freedoms.

front
11-12-2003, 03:42 PM
The group gave Cheney its Thomas Jefferson Freedom Award, praising him for his "commitment" to "individual liberty."

Hahahahaha!

http://mtprof.msun.edu/Spr2002/BAWRart.html

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/03/06/whitehouse_org/?x

cheers

front

WARPIG
11-12-2003, 03:49 PM
Are you reading this post pinkeye?? I don't agree with the law myself. I do think that putting a leash on some of the more extreme activists are a good idea the law itself is a big no-go. Don't assume you know what the hell I think of the environment. Reach down under your chair and pull hard.. when your head pops the hell out of your ass you can try and talk to me about my reality. I said the whole thing "sounds good" but is a big mistake. Too vague. It does go against our constitutional rights.
Do just disagree for the sake of being and ass or did you not read any of this?

pinkeye
11-12-2003, 03:59 PM
Are you reading this post pinkeye?? I don't agree with the law myself. I do think that putting a leash on some of the more extreme activists are a good idea the law itself is a big no-go. Don't assume you know what the hell I think of the environment. Reach down under your chair and pull hard.. when your head pops the hell out of your ass you can try and talk to me about my reality. I said the whole thing "sounds good" but is a big mistake. Too vague. It does go against our constitutional rights.
Do just disagree for the sake of being and ass or did you not read any of this?

did you not write "sounds good" following your comments about animal rights and environmental groups? this is what you wrote:
"Animal rights activists, environmental, and racial groups like the Black Panthers and KKK would have to severely tone down their lobbying. Sounds good."
i did in fact read your post, hence my questions. how is this good? notice that i limited my inquiry to animal rights and environmental groups. accordingly, your post indicates that you believe that the activities of such groups are wrong. if you qualify your argument by saying that this proposed legislation, which is not mr. ridge's doing, will erode fundamental freedoms, fine, i support you on that point. however, you did state that a law curbing the activities of animal rights and environmental groups "sounds good" for reasons other than freedom of speech.

WARPIG
11-12-2003, 04:25 PM
For two english speakers, we really have a language barrier. Ok. So the second time through you read my post. I do think that putting some restrictions on the more extreme activist groups for environmental, animal rights, kkk, etc. sounds good. But not at the cost of constitutional rights. Too many people excercise their "freedom of speech" and don't use their freedom to think enough. We need a control measure for how far these groups go. Whether it is Al Queda or Green Peace there needs to be a limit.

pinkeye
11-12-2003, 04:33 PM
For two english speakers, we really have a language barrier. Ok. So the second time through you read my post. I do think that putting some restrictions on the more extreme activist groups for environmental, animal rights, kkk, etc. sounds good. But not at the cost of constitutional rights. Too many people excercise their "freedom of speech" and don't use their freedom to think enough. We need a control measure for how far these groups go. Whether it is Al Queda or Green Peace there needs to be a limit.

i read your post correctly the first time, hence my posts. why do you think i would react the way i did regarding animal rights and environmental groups if not for your comment that curbing the rights of such groups "sounds good"?

al qaeda or green peace? wtf? al qaeda and a neo-nazi movement calling for the death of non-whites perhaps, but lumping green peace, which fights so your kids can actually drink clean water and not have to wade through toxic waste, with terrorists bent on mayhem and murder is rather idiotic, whether it was intentional or not. you may not agree with the work of green peace and friends, but your kids and grand-kids will thank them.

mocking_loudly_died
11-12-2003, 04:47 PM
I hate hippies so much.

But the bastards have the right to exist and moan about how their government is preventing them from living in a utopian state where flowers and bunnies rule supreme.

pinkeye
11-12-2003, 04:49 PM
I hate hippies so much.

But the bastards have the right to exist and moan about how their government is preventing them from living in a utopian state where flowers and bunnies rule supreme.

just imagine how much cooler things would be if flowers and bunnies ruled supreme: no more suicide bombers, no jihad's, no anti-u.s. rhetoric...

WARPIG
11-13-2003, 08:58 AM
Ok.. try and take my comments literally this time. Don't read into this. I do think curbing the actions of more extreme activists does sound good. That includes environmental, animal rights, anti-abortion, what ever. I acutally am quite supportive of Green Peace as well as many animal rights groups. I laughed my ass off every time some fur wearing, "old money", rich bitch, had red paint flung at her. I personally think that many of them need a little bit of policing. Not by the law on this thread but some restraint needs to be exercised. Fighting for those causes are not just ok but they are necessary, but at what cost? Terrorizing those who don't agree?
What is idiotic is that we actually agree on this. But you are so ignorant that you can't stop disagreeing. If I don't like the methods of many of the acitivists you think
but in your world animals and the environment are just there be ruthlessly exploited?
Your so stuck on disagreeing with everyone that you can't stop arguing.

however, you did state that a law curbing the activities of animal rights and environmental groups "sounds good" for reasons other than freedom of speech. I didn't state reasons, you inferred them. I think that a law that forces those groups to rethink their approach to activism does sound good. A law that handicaps them does not.
Excercise your freedom of thought before you excercise your freedom of speech. Other wise you'll continue to sound " helladumb."

Zach R.
11-13-2003, 09:20 AM
Ok, here's what needs to stop. PETA needs to stop posing **** out on Central street, painted like a cat, and in a cage. That's just stupid anyway. And the enviornmental liberation front needs to stop burning Hummers and Escalades. THAT is terrorism, and anyone who tells you different is an ass. Boy I really drive it home don't I?

Deuterium
11-13-2003, 09:22 AM
Every animal deserves a place on God's table....Right next to the gravy.....

Deuterium
11-13-2003, 09:28 AM
When PETA starts protesting cheetahs and lions on the Serengeti plain for killing gazelles, when Earth First! starts killing beavers for wanton destruction of old growth Aspens, when Green Peace starts to cap all active volcanoes on the earth to stop the release of green house gases, I'll start to listen to these guys more seriously.

WARPIG
11-13-2003, 09:35 AM
Well I'm definately not a tree hugger but burning Escalades and Hummers sounds friggin hilarious to me. I like the idea that these groups are so passionate for what they believe. Our environment needs to be protected.. that has always been obvious..but stupidity is stupidity, regardless of the cause. As much as I would like to see some rich leach on society crying their eyes out while their Escalade burns, it's still a stupid way to prove a point.
Then, again... much of the freedoms we enjoy today were defended and fought over using similar tactics. ~Boston tea party any one?

Mr Gently Benevolent
11-13-2003, 09:51 AM
I like naked painted ladies posing in the street. Speak for yourself Zach.

Deuterium
11-13-2003, 09:52 AM
They should stand on the merits of their arguements instead of using terrorist tactics. Can't convince the majority of the people? Blame your arguements, or your principle for that matter.

oldsoak
11-13-2003, 10:46 AM
In any democratic society there has to be room for legitimate protest. However there is a little thing called responsible behaviour. Someone like an environmentalist who hands out leaflets, lobbies his senator, has a march - they can be an annoyance, but they dont put anyones lives at risk and they are exercising a democratic right of peacful protest. They should have their rights protected. That goes with being a free country. I dont agree with all of them, but its good to know you can protest peacefully should you so choose. Some nutter with a home made bomb and beleif that that the end justifies the means is a danger to any society. I would think and sincerely hope that there are plenty of laws regarding criminal violence that we could use to put such people behind bars. We have to be careful that we differentiate between those who are non violent and those are violent. The law may have good intent, but it really wants to be worded very carefully indeed. JMHO
regds