Swiss Army in Action

[rister]

No pic explanations..would take too long

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army99.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army98.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army97.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army96.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army94.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army93.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army92.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army91.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army90.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army9.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army89.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army88.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army87.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army86.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army73.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army71.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army70.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army7.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army69.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army68.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army67.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army66.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army65.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army64.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army62.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army61.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army6.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army60.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army59.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army57.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army56.jpg
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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army51.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army50.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army5.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army49.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army48.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army47.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army46.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army45.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army44.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army43.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army42.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army41.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army40.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army4.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army39.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army38.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army37.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army36.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army35.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army34.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army33.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army32.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army31.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army30.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army29.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army28.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army27.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army26.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army25.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army24.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army23.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army22.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army21.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army20.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army19.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army18.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army17.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army16.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army15.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army14.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army13.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army12.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army11.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army100.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army10.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army1.jpg

[Millen]

great collection nice equipment

[Wodan]

Großartig woot

[FallenAngel]

pretty nice army for a nuetral country :D

[Millen]

even a neutral country must defend them self

[Resurrection]

Very impressive pics. :) I especially liked this one.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army97.jpg

[Wodan]

even a neutral country must defend them self

especial them!

besides of belgium, they just allow other nations to fight their wars, on belgian ground :lol:

[sp2c]

say something like that about germany and you freak out

[FFanatic]

Very nice collection! :)

Not many navy pics... ;)

[Wodan]

say something like that about germany and you freak out

well, sorry if its like that, and you take me serious

[sp2c]

well that's my problem here

you seem to take everything regarding Germany way to serious but then you go on and insult every country in the world every chance you get

I hope that you at least see where I'm coming from because I don't really want to start looking for quotes right now

[Wodan]

well that's my problem here

you seem to take everything regarding Germany way to serious but then you go on and insult every country in the world every chance you get

I hope that you at least see where I'm coming from because I don't really want to start looking for quotes right now

well I feel sorry, I get what you mean

but it seems often to me, the others are serious with saying "germans are all nazi bastards" etc. and dont make just fun like me atm.

[Millen]

even a neutral country must defend them self

especial them!

besides of belgium, they just allow other nations to fight their wars, on belgian ground :lol:

because it came from you that i first dan't react on it because every time you say someting it's crap and booring you now , and other country's on our ground ...... who was the ****ing enemy at that time ...... but that's history for Germany is a great country but some guy's .....

and every time somebody react on your answer your reaction is OH sorry it was a joke man ......

if your where a man with balls and you got a opion you defend it and not craying like a baby so man go to your mama ask for a candy

and by the way just shut up and don't ruine this nice treat

[sp2c]

see, here we go

[fantassin]

Has the swiss army bought its new sniper rifle ? it's the Sako TRG 42 isn't it ?

[Dalleer]

All it says to me , is "bandwidth exceeded"..

Damn , I'd really like to see some Swiss pics !

[§nake]

I can see'em, good pics :D

[XTC]

Photobucket sux :roll:

today was a great day, the federal council allowed every swiss soldiers to keep their Sig 550 after discharge from service (30 y.o) woot woot woot

More swiss pics:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33643&highlight=

[rister]

Pics are Back Online Again

[Schattengestalt]

@XTC: :D woot

Try another firewall, I also couldn't see the pix until I activated ZoneAlarm and shut Norton down.

[Steve Railsback]

Great pics woot

[Millen]

Photobucket sux :roll:

today was a great day, the federal council allowed every swiss soldiers to keep their Sig 550 after discharge from service (30 y.o) woot woot woot

More swiss pics:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33643&highlight=

That's great

[Boneman]

Anyone know wht the heck this thing is? I am assuming both pics are related (inside view/outside view?)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army87.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army88.jpg

[Millen]

I think it's artilerie bunkers or someting like that

[rister]

Those are 12 cm camoflaged fortress mortars.

[Hadamar]

http://www.ruaglandsystems.com/

The 120 mm fortress mortar is a semiautomatic twin barrel indirect fire weapon with manually operated loading tray and alternating loading.
The mortar fires all current smoothbore ammunition types including cargo rounds and guided ammunition.

Technical data:

* calibre 120 mm
* barrel length 2000 mm
* range up to 10 km
* rate of fire 18 rds/min

[Boneman]

Thanks for the info and the weblink guys. That's pretty cool.

[Bluezoo]

Great pics woot

x2

[Wodan]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army87.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army88.jpg
how many of them do you have, and where are the exact geographical positions?

[wulfstan]

What tank is this?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army92.jpg

[seventy6er]

Leo 2 A4

[wulfstan]

Cheers. German built?

[noFlooder]

Swiss Army in Action:

http://www.kinderisraels.ch/muwiis.htm ( PanzerKinder - The Muwii (71MB) )

:D

[sjogren]

Cheers. German built?

Yep..

[RGRBOX]

Very nice collection! :)

Not many navy pics... ;)

You say that but they have one. There a couple of big lakes here in Switzerland and they have a Navy to watch over them...

Excellant pics... Thought I saw a few from the Swiss Raid Commando.

[rister]

Not quite....................2 Tanks were built in Germany. the rest 345 Tanks were built in Switzerland to Swiss standards.
:oops: :oops:

[wulfstan]

But, it's still a German tank! lol

Have they ever been tested in combat anywhere?

[seventy6er]

Not quite....................2 Tanks were built in Germany. the rest 345 Tanks were built in Switzerland to Swiss standards.
:oops: :oops:

I thought you had 380 Leo2??

[rister]

Yup, you were right...............35 were built in Germany. The 2 were for the evaluation phase.

[Kampfhamster]

how many of them do you have, and where are the exact geographical positions?

do you really think the positions of the bunkers are not classified??

We used to have a couple hundred of them. After the reformation-program "Army 21" most of them were shut down.

The 120mm twin mortars are supported by the L52 155m howitzer in fortified bunkers.

[joka]

how many of them do you have, and where are the exact geographical positions?

do you really think the positions of the bunkers are not classified??

We used to have a couple hundred of them. After the reformation-program "Army 21" most of them were shut down.

The 120mm twin mortars are supported by the L52 155m howitzer in fortified bunkers.

I doubt that it's a huge secret where they are, given that they hardly advertise their exact location it's likely that even a civilian person could locate them.. . given some time.

By the way, why does Switzerland have static fortresses, I mean.. . What are the chances that Switzerland would face an invasion? You have France, Austria and Germany as border neighbours if I remember correctly. Finland used to have static costal fortresses and they were recently abandoned, and we have Russia as a neighbour :lol:

[goldman]

GP :hug: woot woot

[Kampfhamster]

I doubt that it's a huge secret where they are, given that they hardly advertise their exact location it's likely that even a civilian person could locate them.. . given some time.

By the way, why does Switzerland have static fortresses, I mean.. . What are the chances that Switzerland would face an invasion? You have France, Austria and Germany as border neighbours if I remember correctly. Finland used to have static costal fortresses and they were recently abandoned, and we have Russia as a neighbour :lol:

Do a search on google what a swiss fortress looks like. You're a lucky guy when you can locate the fortress from a distance of 200m.
Believe me, just forget it.

Most of the fortresses are obsolete by now. They are being reduced to the Bison and 120mm twin mortars.

[Pille1234]

Do a search on google what a swiss fortress looks like. You're a lucky guy when you can locate the fortress from a distance of 200m.
Believe me, just forget it.

Most of the fortresses are obsolete by now. They are being reduced to the Bison and 120mm twin mortars.

Based on the superior intelligence services of the former soviet union countries, there is no doubt that all positions, entries and ventilation shafts are well known. Even if the swiss army itself forgot the positions, there's still someone in Moscow who could help out...

[ReconCominAtYa]

Switzerland would be hell for any invading army. If i'm not mistaken every able bodied male recieves military training and takes a rifle and ammunition home with him.

[rister]

ur right ..........my two son's have their Stgw 90 at home
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army98.jpg
I have my old Stgw 57
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/pe57_sm.jpg
+ i have two K31 fro my Father
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/mk31.jpg

with heaps of ammo.

[Polyshot]

What tank is this?
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army92.jpg

For further notice the Leo 2 was designated by Swiss Army as Pz 87 Leo....... BTW did Swiss planned to upgrade them to something like Leo 2A5 standard?

[krpano]

Switzerland would be hell for any invading army. If i'm not mistaken every able bodied male recieves military training and takes a rifle and ammunition home with him.

I think exactly the inverse.
They have absolutely no experience in war.
What you call an army(the male ppl with sigs at home), its more like an unexperienced milicia.
I know that milicais can bring lots of headache (/like in iraq) but the "Ch milicia" have no expereince at all.
Lots of ppl that are part of this milicia are foreigns (as big part of CH population) and i doubt most of part of these ppl would fight for CH.
Since CH is part of nothing, they have no ally.
BUT, its true...they have a new and shine equipment to keep they appereance to the rest of the world.
How they do ?
Since they absolutely no big industries or agriculture, they use other ppl's money from the banks (dirt money, most of it..thats why they do not allow the bank secrecy to be broke)....and they still use the NAZI gold they stored for the germans during the WWII (read the stolen gold).

[Wodan]

krpano, they were conscripteds, conscripteds arent bad soldiers, they know how to fight, they spent a year in the armed forces, and know military tactics, and each year they have an amount of days of training, it would be pretty hard to invade switzerland!

[Lazy Lob]

Lots of ppl that are part of this milicia are foreigns (as big part of CH population) and i doubt most of part of these ppl would fight for CH.
Since CH is part of nothing, they have no ally.
BUT, its true...they have a new and shine equipment to keep they appereance to the rest of the world.
How they do ?
Since they absolutely no big industries or agriculture, they use other ppl's money from the banks (dirt money, most of it..thats why they do not allow the bank secrecy to be broke)....and they still use the NAZI gold they stored for the germans during the WWII (read the stolen gold).

You seem to have an axe to grind with the Swiss. You spout verbal diarrhoea mate. The Swiss afaik do not have ANY foreigners in their army. Their chemical and precision instrument industries are second to none. Are you an immigrant living in Switzerland that hasn't quite adapted?

[seventy6er]

For further notice the Leo 2 was designated by Swiss Army as Pz 87 Leo....... BTW did Swiss planned to upgrade them to something like Leo 2A5 standard?

It was planned to upgrade all 380 Leo2 to the A5 configuration. But that info is like 5 years old. Anybody knows more? Kampfhamster?

[weissent]

how many of them do you have, and where are the exact geographical positions?

do you really think the positions of the bunkers are not classified??

We used to have a couple hundred of them. After the reformation-program "Army 21" most of them were shut down.

The 120mm twin mortars are supported by the L52 155m howitzer in fortified bunkers.

I doubt that it's a huge secret where they are, given that they hardly advertise their exact location it's likely that even a civilian person could locate them.. . given some time.

By the way, why does Switzerland have static fortresses, I mean.. . What are the chances that Switzerland would face an invasion? You have France, Austria and Germany as border neighbours if I remember correctly. Finland used to have static costal fortresses and they were recently abandoned, and we have Russia as a neighbour :lol:

There's a couple of old bunkers overlooking the Rhine near from where my parents lived (haven't been in use for a couple of decades) ... the still look kinda impressive.
Since I'm going to visit them tomorrow, perhaps I'll find the time to take a few pics of them, we'll see...

[rister]

A good link to Swiss AAA training.
read + feast krpano
http://www.systran.com/ftp/literature/sc/as121.pdf

[RGRBOX]

Lots of ppl that are part of this milicia are foreigns (as big part of CH population) and i doubt most of part of these ppl would fight for CH.
Since CH is part of nothing, they have no ally.
BUT, its true...they have a new and shine equipment to keep they appereance to the rest of the world.
How they do ?
Since they absolutely no big industries or agriculture, they use other ppl's money from the banks (dirt money, most of it..thats why they do not allow the bank secrecy to be broke)....and they still use the NAZI gold they stored for the germans during the WWII (read the stolen gold).

You seem to have an axe to grind with the Swiss. You spout verbal diarrhoea mate. The Swiss afaik do not have ANY foreigners in their army. Their chemical and precision instrument industries are second to none. Are you an immigrant living in Switzerland that hasn't quite adapted?

I'm an American living in Switzerland, Yes they do have a Military, and yes everyone in the Military has a FAS 90 at home. But when I come to fighting, they have no experience and their trining is getting eaten up every year with Enbasy Guard for other countries. The Swiss Army is cutting ist's schools down smaller and smaller, and their NCO Courps is just a baby. Their Officer Corps knows this and most people, axcept the Swiss Germans are waiting for the day when the Army is all but gone. They are putting together a SF unit. But they too are young. I've seen there 17th Company Recon, and they are only high speed free fall experts, once on the ground they will not last the best of 15 mins. I saying these things because I work with the military here and I know a lot of high Speed men in the Swiss Army, but they are slowly being pushed out by the PC minded people at Bern.

[rister]

I donn't know where you got your info, and if you worked with the army you would know better. All the Armys in Europe are cutting down. Compare Armys in Europe and you still might find the Swiss one of the largest Armys left. The 17 th Company Recon is no new troop at all , they just changed their name. The last Vote to get rid of the Army was voted 65% aginst 35% ...but I guess you allready know. New Polls would even result in a higher Yes. Try and find another country in Europe who would let their Citizens vote over the Army. You wouldn't find any Armys left in Europe.
What the hell are high Speed men in the Swiss Army???
rofl rofl rofl rofl
I just love the so called self named experts eg"their Officer Corps knows this...." I was an Officer till 3 years ago. Thanks for telling me......
Hint: Subscripe the ASMZ (offizielles Organ der Schweizerischen Offiziersgesellschaft ) and sorry for my words..but you woudn't write such bull**** if you knew what you where talking about. Also look up www.sog.ch
Guess what: the US Officer korps knows that there arn't enough armoured Humvees in Iraq.
Look up the page www.adoptasniper.com ...........it's all about helping snipers get the gear they need to keep you safe....poor guys.
And last but not least....................I am so ****ing glad we have no War experience....and take my word.............all those 1500 dead soldiers in Iraq would of been glad as well.

[mountainbear]

Fantassin

Has the swiss army bought its new sniper rifle ? it's the Sako TRG 42 isn't it ?

I’ve seen it on TV in the hands of the new Special Forces Swiss army is building, no not the 17th recon company (they are conscripts) but the “Détachement de reconnaissance d’armée 10”, link about them (sorry it’s in French, Italian or German) : http://www.heer.vbs.admin.ch/internet/heer/fr/home/lvbinfanterie/kompzen/grenkdo1/armee.html

krpano

Since they absolutely no big industries or agriculture, they use other ppl's money from the banks (dirt money, most of it..thats why they do not allow the bank secrecy to be broke)....and they still use the NAZI gold they stored for the germans during the WWII (read the stolen gold).

Who stored all this **** into your head?
Nestlé, Novartis, Roche, Sulzer, ABB (OK partly Swedish), Unaxis (former Oerlikon), Swiss Re, Swatch, … doesn’t say anything to you????
And we corrected the last point not long ago, I know it was late but it was done!!!!

Oh and welcome!





For further notice the Leo 2 was designated by Swiss Army as Pz 87 Leo....... BTW did Swiss planned to upgrade them to something like Leo 2A5 standard?

It was planned to upgrade all 380 Leo2 to the A5 configuration. But that info is like 5 years old. Anybody knows more? Kampfhamster?

You will find info here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34472&highlight=pz87

[Wodan]

Their Officer Corps knows this and most people, axcept the Swiss Germans are waiting for the day when the Army is all but gone.

LOOOOOOl

the Swiss Germans are 63.7% of the population, so saying "except" is pretty funny

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/2/25/KARTE_schweiz_sprachen.png

white = german
red = italian
blue = french
grew = a romanic language just there spoken

[mountainbear]

And now more pics
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/uk_2_spz2000.Par.0001.Photogallery3.direct.gif/Spz2000_3.jpg
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/uk_2_spz2000.Par.0005.Photogallery1.direct.gif/Spz2000_17.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/uk_2_spz2000.Par.0005.Photogallery4.direct.gif/Spz2000_19.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/uk_2_spz2000.Par.0006.Photogallery2.direct.gif/Spz2000_16.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/uk_2_spz2000.Par.0006.Photogallery4.direct.gif/Spz2000_27.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/impressionen_spz2000.Par.0010.Photogallery3.direct.gif/Spz2000_21.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/impressionen_spz2000.Par.0010.Photogallery1.direct.gif/Spz2000_22.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/impressionen_spz2000.Par.0011.Photogallery1.direct.gif/Spz2000_50.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/impressionen_spz2000.Par.0006.Photogallery3.direct.gif/Spz2000_33.JPG
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/diashow.Par.0010.Image.direct.gif/Fotogallerie7.jpg
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat29/wk_2004.Par.0007.Photogallery3.direct.gif/ARMDSC_4413_480px.jpg

Small videos whit the mighty CV 9030:
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/wk2005_video.Par.0005.DownloadFile.tmp/Schüpa%202000.wmv
http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/pzbr11/mittel/pzgrenbat28/bilder/wk2005_video.Par.0004.DownloadFile.tmp/Häuserkampf.wmv

[mountainbear]

Their Officer Corps knows this and most people, axcept the Swiss Germans are waiting for the day when the Army is all but gone.

LOOOOOOl

the Swiss Germans are 63.7% of the population, so saying "except" is pretty funny

I’m not Swiss German but that doesn’t make me a supporter of these people www.gsoa.ch

[Wodan]

Their Officer Corps knows this and most people, axcept the Swiss Germans are waiting for the day when the Army is all but gone.

LOOOOOOl

the Swiss Germans are 63.7% of the population, so saying "except" is pretty funny

I’m not Swiss German but that doesn’t make me a supporter of these people www.gsoa.ch

We can make a deal, if ever the gsoa.ch persons make it real, I will invade your country with my russian WW I weapon, thats atm on the wall, and then when its mine country, build a new big military, and teach your soldiers goose walk, ok? p-)

[XTC]

We can make a deal, if ever the gsoa.ch persons make it real, I will invade your country with my russian WW I weapon, thats atm on the wall, and then when its mine country, build a new big military, and teach your soldiers goose walk, ok? p-)

ok but don't forget to bring these german beauties with you :lol:

http://img190.exs.cx/img190/5451/dscn1318.jpg

[mountainbear]

We can make a deal, if ever the gsoa.ch persons make it real, I will invade your country with my russian WW I weapon, thats atm on the wall, and then when its mine country, build a new big military, and teach your soldiers goose walk, ok? p-)

ok but don't forget to bring these german beauties with you :lol:

http://img190.exs.cx/img190/5451/dscn1318.jpg

Yea!! Wodan if you promise to bring them and present them to me, I will start voting Gsoa’s way immediately!!! :D woot

[He219]

Anybody have any Swiss Navy (http://www.swissnavy.ch/) in Action pic's ...
p-)

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Switzerland/058.jpg
http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/Auf_dem_P80/ap80liegenlang.jpg
:lol:


More Here (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5338&highlight=swiss+navy)

[XTC]

Anybody have any Swiss Navy in Action pic's ...
p-)

http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6003.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/3098.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6001.jpg
http://users.ticino.com/genieri/WEB/Images/navy/fuc3.JPG
http://users.ticino.com/genieri/WEB/Images/navy/fuc1.JPG
http://users.ticino.com/genieri/WEB/Images/navy/fuc4.JPG

[rister]

Swiss pilots worked up to full US Navy proficiency before testing the Swiss F18, including becoming fully qualified in carrier landings, which is ironic given that Switzerland is completely land-locked and has no navy!
rofl rofl rofl

[He219]

http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/InFormation/formaufgeloest.jpg
http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/InFormation/formdia.jpg
http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/InFormation/formdiagonaql.jpg
http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/InFormation/form10.jpg
http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/InFormation/formheliimv.jpg
http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/InFormation/formgegenueber.jpg
http://www.swissnavy.ch/Fotobuch/G8/InFormation/form4.jpg



http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Switzerland/089.jpg
http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Switzerland/081.jpg

[Wodan]

We can make a deal, if ever the gsoa.ch persons make it real, I will invade your country with my russian WW I weapon, thats atm on the wall, and then when its mine country, build a new big military, and teach your soldiers goose walk, ok? p-)

ok but don't forget to bring these german beauties with you :lol:

http://img190.exs.cx/img190/5451/dscn1318.jpg

Yea!! Wodan if you promise to bring them and present them to me, I will start voting Gsoa’s way immediately!!! :D woot

common, be honest, you just want the good beer :lol:

[Wodan]

well, I think I will get some support for my operation, this was the first thing I got by googling "schweiz armee":

http://forum.gamestar.de/gspinboard/showthread.php?t=39784

:lol: p-)

well after reading that thread, I am not anymore that sure, they could give me any support :lol:

[mountainbear]

wodan

common, be honest, you just want the good beer
The combination of both makes it even more desirable. ;)

http://www.armee.vbs.admin.ch/internet/armee/de/home/infbr7/organisation/verb_nde/nd_im_verbund.RelatedPar.0003.Image.direct.gif/Drohne.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/upload/panzer/IMG_MH9038.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/upload/panzer/IMG_MH9037.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/gallery/gallery/piranha/DSC03721.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/upload/panzer/RS_20027.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/upload/panzer/dscn0181.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/upload/panzer/BruePz1.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/upload/panzer/BruePz4.jpg
http://www.arnoldweb.ch/motorfahrer/gallery/gallery/minenfz/DSC01244.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6247.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6242.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6664.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6669.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6671.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6668.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/3613.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6579.jpg

Bison fortress
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/1847.jpg
http://www.bild-zem.vbs.admin.ch/Lists/400/6571.jpg

[Icarus1]

Check

http://www.icarusnet.ch.vu for information about swiss army technology

[Panzer laid]

Very impressive pics. :) I especially liked this one.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army97.jpg

crouching Tiger hidden Dragon ? ;) that is pretty high !!


Anyone got some pictures of Swiss Chesse in Action ?

[hell]

By the way, why does Switzerland have static fortresses, I mean.. . What are the chances that Switzerland would face an invasion? You have France, Austria and Germany as border neighbours if I remember correctly.


Switzerland wanted to retain their democracy and make sure that Germany didn't invade during the 1930s if I remember correctly. Since alot of the people of Switzerland were ethnic Germans, the Swiss thought their chances of being invaded by Germany were pretty high at the time (remember the Sudenland?)

If I remember correctly, the Swiss have those fortresses lining the mountain passes into Switzerland, and alot of areas were extensively mined, and both medium and heavy caliber artillery were already zeroed-in on the narrow passes. There's some historical proof that Hitler was looking in to an invasion plan of Switzerland, but all of his military commanders were able to finally convince him that invading Switzerland would be a major f***up.

I'm not an authority on the subject, if someone wants to correct me, have at it, I'm just spouting off all of this useless info I have :)

[rister]

Americans have been known to confuse the Swiss flag--white cross, red background--with the Red Cross banner, which is the opposite. In World War II, Swiss fighter planes, painted with the Swiss flag, attempted to intercept all foreign planes in Swiss air space and to order them to land. An American pilot, asked whether he thought about firing on the fighters which instructed him to land, responded: "I would never fire on a Red Cross plane!"

Almost 1700 American pilots found refuge in Switzerland after their planes were damaged in bombing raids over Germany. However, the Nazis were not amused by Switzerland's armed neutrality. Hitler was livid that the Swiss used fighters bought from Germany to shoot down 11 German Luftwaffe planes; the saboteurs Hitler sent to blow up Swiss airfields were captured; they aroused suspicion because they were all dressed in the same odd outfits!

It is a pleasure to have Sarpedon, a first-rate military publisher, fill the void in World War II history by publishing my book on the Nazi plans to eradicate the Swiss democracy and the Swiss plans to resist to the end. Over 200 years ago, America's Founding Fathers like Patrick Henry and John Adams were inspired by the example of Switzerland--a democracy in a sea of monarchial despotism. Having devoted much of my career to American constitutional law, publishing books and arguing in the Supreme Court, I was intrigued to know how the Swiss institutions which influenced our Constitution proved their worthiness in the darkest years of European history: Hitler's Third Reich, 1933-45.

In 1940, after the rest of central Europe collapsed before the German army, Swiss Commander in Chief Henri Guisan assembled his officers at the Rütli meadow near the Lake of Lucerne. He reminded them that, at this sacred spot, in the year 1291, the Swiss Confederation was born as an alliance against despotism. Guisan admonished that the Swiss would always stand up to any invader. One has only to recall the medieval battle of Morgarten, where 1400 Swiss peasants ambushed and defeated 20,000 Austrian knights.

In World War II, the Swiss had defenses no other country had. Let's begin with the rifle in every home combined with the Alpine terrain. When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home. Switzerland also had a decentralized, direct democracy which could not be surrendered to a foreign enemy by a political elite. Some governments surrendered to Hitler without resistance based on the decision of a king or dictator; this was institutionally impossible in Switzerland. If an ordinary Swiss citizen was told that the Federal President--a relatively powerless official--had surrendered the country, the citizen might not even know the president's name, and would have held any "surrender" order in contempt.

When Hitler came to power in 1933, the Swiss feared an invasion and began military preparations like no other European nation. On Hitler's 1938 "Anchluss" or annexation of Austria, the Swiss Parliament declared that the Swiss were prepared to defend themselves "to the last drop of their blood."

When the Fuehrer attacked Poland in 1939, Swiss General Guisan ordered the citizen army to resist any attack to the last cartridge. After Denmark and Norway fell in 1940, Guisan and the Federal Council gave the order to the populace: Aggressively attack invaders; act on your own initiative; regard any surrender broadcast or announcement as enemy propaganda; resist to the end. This was published as a message to the Swiss and a warning to the Germans; surrender was impossible, even if ordered by the government, for the prior order mandated that any "surrender" be treated as an enemy lie.

When the Germany army, the Wehrmacht, attacked Belgium and Holland, it feigned preparations for attack through Switzerland. Like actors on a giant movie set, divisions moved toward the Swiss border by day, only to sneak back again by night and repeat the ruse the next day. Both the Swiss and the French were tricked into thinking that concentrations of troops were massing to attack through Switzerland and into France. Swiss border troops nervously awaited an assault each time the clock approached the hour, for the Germans were punctual in lauching attacks on the hour.

When France collapsed, detailed Nazi invasion plans with names like "Case Switzerland" and "Operation Tannenbaum" were prepared for the German General Staff. They only awaited the Fuehrer's nod.

Threatened with attack from German and Italian forces from all sides, General Guisan devised the strategy of a delaying stand at the border, and a concentration of Swiss forces in the rugged and impassable Alps. This chosen place of engagement was called the Réduit national, meaning a national fort within a fort. German tanks and planes, Panzers and Luftwaffe, would be ineffective there.

A fifth of the Swiss people, 850,000 out of the 4.2 million population, was under arms and mobilized. Most men were in the citizens army, and boys and old men with rifles constituted the Home Guard. Many women served in the civil defense and the anti-aircraft defense.

Nazi invasion plans for 1941 were postponed to devote all forces to Operation Barbarossa, the attack on Russia. The Swiss would have their turn in due time. Hitler banned the play William Tell. He called the Swiss "the most despicable and wretched people, mortal enemies of the new Germany"; in the same breath he fumed that all Jews must be expelled from Europe. His plan to annihilate the Jews would have faced a special obstacle in Switzerland, where every Swiss Jew (like every other citizen) had a rifle in his home. In the heroic Warsaw ghetto uprising of 1943, Jews demonstrated how genocide could be resisted with only a few pistols and rifles. Hitler boasted that he would liquidate "the rubbish of small nations" and would be "the Butcher of the Swiss." But the dictator was more comfortable with liquidating unarmed peoples and was dissuaded from invading Switzerland. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil.

As a neutral, the Swiss represented American interests before the Axis powers, such as by inspecting German prison camps holding American POWs. When Vichy France was occupied, German soldiers with submachineguns took over the American embassy. The Swiss minister, brandishing his Swiss army knife, drove them out.

A Nazi SS invasion plan, recommended for execution in 1944, warned the German general staff that the Swiss fighting spirit was high and shooting instruction good; German loses would be heavy, and a conquered Switzerland would require a strong occupation force. D-Day put the plan on hold, but new dangers threatened Switzerland as the Allies pushed the Nazis back. In 1944, the Wehrmacht's counter-offensive in the Ardennes, leading to the Battle of the Bulge, proved that the Nazi Beast was still strong and full of suprises. The Swiss prepared for an attack from Germans retreating from Italy. The Swiss resolve remained high, for, as the US State Dept. declared, "no people in Europe are more profoundly attached to democratic principles than the Swiss."

Switzerland saved a half million refugees who came there in the war. Restrictive policies by government officials, often secret, were ignored by Swiss who helped refugees. Let it be remembered that Switzerland took in more Jewish refugees than the United States took in refugees of all kinds.

America's great journalist Walter Lippmann wrote that the Swiss proved their honor by surviving the dark days of 1940-41, they proved that diverse peoples and language groups can live peacefully together, they repudiated Nazism. "It must never be forgotten," he wrote, "how the Swiss served the cause of freedom."

In the American Revolution, a Swiss leader wrote to Benjamin Franklin calling America and Switzerland the "Sister Republics." After two centuries of mutual respect, today a media frenzy falsely depicts the Swiss as Nazi collaborators. It was the opposite. Nazi Propaganda Minister Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" and ranted that the Swiss press was "either bought or Jewish." The Swiss bashing seen in the New York Times today could use a reality check by reference to the Times issues of the war period--such as a 1939 issue with a map showing Switzerland as a possible invasion route, or a 1942 issue calling Switzerland an "Oasis of Democracy." Our new "Ugly Americanism" will never have the credibility of Winston Churchill, who observed near the end of the war: "Of all the neutrals Switzerland has the greatest right to distinction. . . . She has been a democratic State, standing for freedom in self-defence among her mountains, and in thought, in spite of race, largely on our side."

[hell]

It is a pleasure to have Sarpedon, a first-rate military publisher, fill the void in World War II history by publishing my book on the Nazi plans to eradicate the Swiss democracy and the Swiss plans to resist to the end.


First off, great post. Very informative and no flames. Second, you left out one thing in that nice long post.....what's the name of your book covering this topic? I'll have to at least check it out, if not buy it. (Of course, if I read that right, and you've studied law and argued in Supreme Court, then you don't need my money :) )

And yea, the Swiss riflemen would have mown down the Germans, I have a K-31, and those rifles are outstanding, pretty much made like a swiss watch (you should disassemble their bolt, very intricate, I love them). And the military 7.5x55mm ammo they issued their soldiers? That stuff is match grade, every round. My K-31 is a tack driver, which almost all of them are.

Again, great post.

[rister]

This is the lecture delivered by Dr. Stephen P. Halbrook at signings for his new book (1998 )Target Switzerland: Swiss Armed Neutrality in World War II.

:oops: :oops:

[hell]

rofl


That's cool, I was wondering why a lawyer would have an avatar like yours....but hey, you never know.

[He219]

Very impressive pics. :) I especially liked this one.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army97.jpg

crouching Tiger hidden Dragon ? ;) that is pretty high !!


Anyone got some pictures of Swiss Chesse in Action ?


Great Pic!


http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Switzerland/071.jpg

:D

[Icarus1]

That are Swiss Grenadiers, our Special Forces among with the Force Recon Company 17 (airborne) and the AAD. Such jumps were normal in Isone (the place where the Grenadiers train). Isone was well known for the tough training and the high morale of the troop.

[Yosy]

By the way, why does Switzerland have static fortresses, I mean.. . What are the chances that Switzerland would face an invasion? You have France, Austria and Germany as border neighbours if I remember correctly. Finland used to have static costal fortresses and they were recently abandoned, and we have Russia as a neighbour :lol:

If I'm not mistaken, Switzerland is considered invasion-proof.

This is something from the country itself. For instance, the Benelux is pretty much indefensible; Russia and the USA are virtually impossible to conquer; my country is indefensible too, except the Madeira, Azores and Lisbon.

[LeMat]

I'm great admirer fo Swiss army and whole Switzerland.
BTW probably you know brand Patek Philippe which makes the best (and most expensive) watches on the world.
Antoni Patek was a Pole who left Poland after 1830/1 uprising.
If you have $11000000 you can buy that watch
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/clocks-watches/watch/watches/patek-philippe/collections/star-caliber-2000/

[One_A]

This vehicle looks as though it shares the same platform as the US Humvee.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army90.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army89.jpg

Any photos of the SIG 552 employed?

[kinghk]

Nice pics. Do you have any more pics of fixed mountain fortresses?

[KaG90]

This vehicle looks as though it shares the same platform as the US Humvee.


it does, its hummer-based
http://www.mowag.ch/En/02_ProdukteEn/EAGLE4x4En/02-20_Frameset.htm

[Beinlausen]

Swiss Army in Action:

http://www.kinderisraels.ch/muwiis.htm ( PanzerKinder - The Muwii (71MB) )

:D

now that owns! laughed my ass

[One_A]

Swiss Army in Action:

http://www.kinderisraels.ch/muwiis.htm ( PanzerKinder - The Muwii (71MB) )

:D

now that owns! laughed my ass

These guys are Swiss Army, but what is their relation to Israel?

[rister]

Archives > August 15, 1999

SWITZERLAND'S VALLEY OF DEATH
SARGANS, Switzerland - To the casual traveler, Sargans, a small town on Switzerland’s border with Liechtenstein and Austria, looks like just another scenic masterpiece in the world’s most beautiful country.

The bowl-shaped valley, five kms long by two kms wide, is girded by soaring cliffs and snow-capped peaks. The headwaters of the Rhine flow swiftly northwards through the narrow valley towards Lake Constance. Nearby is the home of fabled Heidi, a mecca for busloads of Japanese tourists, and further south, Chur and St. Moritz.

Sargans is the main gateway through the mountains into eastern Switzerland. Any army seeking to invade Switzerland from this quarter would quickly discover that idyllic, pastoral Sargans is also the Valley of Death.

Thanks to the Swiss General Staff, army Maj. Krebs, and my hosts from the 8th Regiment of the elite Festungswachtkorps, or fortress guard corps, I had the unique opportunity to inspect a part of the powerful fortifications defending the Sargans valley. My expertise in modern fortifications, and my schooling in Switzerland, convinced the Swiss Army to permit me a look at some of the nation’s most highly-guarded military secrets. So fanatical are the Swiss about secrecy that an officer who had been stationed in one of the forts for ten years told me he was not allowed to tell his wife where he was going each morning.

Convinced in 1940 that Hitler and Mussolini intended to invade Switzerland, the Swiss constructed the ‘national redoubt,’ a huge system of at least 70 powerful, large artillery fortresses, and thousands of smaller works, in only three years, at a cost of US $12 billion in today’s dollars. The redoubt was built in Switzerland’s Alpine uplands and high mountains, with three principal fortified zones at St. Maurice in the Valais; the St. Gothard Pass; and Sargans. It has remained a secret for 50 years.

In the event of a German-Italian invasion, Switzerland’s 800,000 citizen soldiers (out of a population of 5 million) were to abandon their families and homes, and retreat into the mountain redoubt. The rest of Europe’s professional armies might surrender to Hitler - Switzerland’s citizen-soldiers were ordered to fight to the death. There would be no surrender. General Henri Guisan commanded his troops to fight until their ammunition was exhausted, then fight with their bayonets.

On a sheer rock face overlooking the Rhine stands the mighty fortress of Tschingel, the Gibraltar of eastern Switzerland. At first, even I, a trained fortress observer, only saw a sheer cliff the height of a 20-floor floor building.

Then I finally discerned four levels of cleverly camouflaged gunports, or creneaux, behind which were long-barreled 75mm and 105mm guns, mortars, machine guns, observation posts, and huge white and infrared searchlights that could illuminate the entire valley. Like most large Swiss forts, Tschingel had a garrison of 400-500 men( but could hold up to 1,000), with supplies to last for 90-120 days of combat. Below the fort, which is reached by its own cable car, the Rhine’s banks had been mined to allow Swiss Army engineers to flood the valley of Sargans.

I visited another powerful, multi-level fort, Magletsch, dug into a mountain, and now used for training. Its three, 105mm gun turrets were disguised, a la Heidi, as small Alpine chalets. Swiss are masters of disguise. At Festung Gutsch, guardian of Gothard, the fort’s turrets are camouflaged as large boulders. At Furigen, which guards the Gothard highway at Stans, south of Lucerne, interlocking its fire with a hidden fort on the famed Mt. Rigi at Vitznau, I walked right by the fort’s trop-l’oeil creneaux without even noticing them. Similarly, all of the Swiss Air Force’s 171 combat aircraft are hidden in caves dug into mountain sides.

In 1995, the Swiss Army began decommissioning its WWII-era forts, which were increasingly costly to garrison, maintain, and heat, replacing them with more modern defenses. I was shown new, six-man ‘mini-forts,’ housing a 105mm-gun Centurion tank turret, completely hidden, but able to sweep the valley and cover the new anti-tank barrier that bars the defile.

Smaller concrete bunkers with machine guns have replaced larger works dug into the cliffs on either side of the valley. More interesting, and highly secret, however, were new twin, 120mm mortar installations buried underground on the terraced sides of the valley. Capable of rotating 360 degrees, the semiautomatic mortars can fire 20 rounds a minute, including the Swedish Stryx anti-tank round, blanketing the entire valley with deadly accurate, pre-targeted fire. The only visible portion of these mortar positions are manhole-sized thick steel covers, camouflaged by farm wagons parked on top of them.

In the heights above Sargans are 10 more major forts. Some are the new ‘Bison’ installations, such as I saw at Gothard: four, 155mm guns, capable of firing their five-clip magazines in one minute to a range of 40 kms or more, including ‘bus’ rounds carrying clouds of anti-personnel and anti-tank submunitions. The ‘Bisons’ and twin-mortars are replacing the WWII artillery forts, producing more firepower at a fraction of the cost.

Each fort is manned and protected on the exterior by units of the army’s three fortress brigades. The 400,000 -man Swiss armed forces ( recently reduced from 600,000) still relies on forts to defend strategic points, but its has adopted ‘dynamic defense’ since 1995, relying on armored brigades, equipped with 372 superb German Leopard-II tanks, and mechanized Panzer grenadiers, backed by heavy artillery.

I attended field training at Col. Rossini’s officer’s combat course at Wallenstadt, including live-fire infantry assaults and anti-tank operations. Switzerland’s male soldiers, who are better educated and more intelligent that troops in other western armies, serve annually from 20-42 years old (longer for officers). The handful of token females in service are excluded from combat and relegated to minor support roles.

Swiss citizen soldiers are highly competent, serious, deadly professional and the world’s finest marksmen. Interestingly, all Swiss soldiers keep their automatic weapons and ammunition at home. Yet Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates anywhere.

Why does Switzerland still act as if it about to be invaded? As Machiavelli observed four centuries ago, the Swiss are ‘most armed, and most free.’

Switzerland is the world’s oldest democracy and the first nation in Europe to win freedom from feudal rule. The Swiss are fiercely independent, mistrust foreigners, and fear, with some reason, that outsiders covet their strategic nation and its vast horde of wealth. A recent torrent of false accusations that Switzerland collaborated with the Nazis, and enormous payments for World War II it is being forced to make under intense American pressure, have heightened the national sense of xenophobia.

The Swiss knew the Soviet Army planned to defeat NATO in a vast replay of the WWI Schlieffen Plan by cutting across defenseless Austria, invading Switzerland at Sargans, then advancing on a Zurich-Neuchatel-Geneva axis to erupt in east-central France near Besancon and Dijon, bypassing and outflanking NATO forces further north, then racing for Paris and the Channel. Intelligence sources in Moscow confirmed to me the existence of this breathtakingly audacious plan.

But Festung Sargans, the other Swiss forts, and a nation at arms barred the way to NATO’s vulnerable underbelly. In my view, the Red Army would have been slaughtered by the ferocious cross-fire, minefields, flooded zones, and obstacles of the Valley of Death, just as the Austrian imperial knights were in the defiles at Sempach in 1393.

Many foreigners find the Swiss mania for defense Quixotic. I do not. The Swiss, whom Hitler called ‘insolent herdesmen,’ faced down Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in military confrontation, and were ready to do battle with the armies of Stalin, who hated the Swiss for their independence and capitalist system.

Switzerland will be ready when the next threat arises. Fortress Sargans will continue its long, silent watch on the Rhine.

[Marmot1]

Lots of fortifications... I tought maginot line was last time someone used permament fortifications...

[kinghk]

I attended field training at Col. Rossini’s officer’s combat course at Wallenstadt, including live-fire infantry assaults and anti-tank operations. Switzerland’s male soldiers, who are better educated and more intelligent that troops in other western armies, serve annually from 20-42 years old (longer for officers).

Generalization of the day.

[kinghk]

Lots of fortifications... I tought maginot line was last time someone used permament fortifications...

Coastal artillery was pretty common in Sweden, Norway and Finland until year 2000. AFAIK both Sweden and Finland have disabandoned their fortresses while Norway still keeps some mothballed.

Nice article with pics here: http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/sites/f/femore_fort/index.html

[RGRBOX]

krpano, they were conscripteds, conscripteds arent bad soldiers, they know how to fight, they spent a year in the armed forces, and know military tactics, and each year they have an amount of days of training, it would be pretty hard to invade switzerland!

The problem with that is, after that one year they soldier is finally trained. then he goes off home and forgets most of what he knows. Yea, they come together once a year of mostly once every 2-3 years and they aren't in shap and they^ve forgotten most of what they know. Most of the Swiss I know don't really take it serious. But there are a few who do. but just a few...

[RGRBOX]

Swiss Army in Action:

http://www.kinderisraels.ch/muwiis.htm ( PanzerKinder - The Muwii (71MB) )

:D

now that owns! laughed my ass

These guys are Swiss Army, but what is their relation to Israel?

Banks, and money??

[rister]

Swiss citizen soldiers are highly competent, serious, deadly professional and the world’s finest marksmen. Interestingly, all Swiss soldiers keep their automatic weapons and ammunition at home. Yet Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates anywhere
Try giving weapons to the National Guard or even regular Army to take home :bash: :bash: :bash:


The problem with that is, after that one year they soldier is finally trained. then he goes off home and forgets most of what he knows. Yea, they come together once a year of mostly once every 2-3 years and they aren't in shap and they^ve forgotten most of what they know. Most of the Swiss I know don't really take it serious. But there are a few who do. but just a few...

I'm glad you know what you're talking about. The US Army National Guard consists of about 350'000 voluntary soldiers which is about 3/4 of the regular standing Army. Depending on their graduation they undergo traing from one to twelve weeks, and after that 12 weekends a year. I find that quite amusing........and guess what, a lot of those troops are in Iraq.
So, I still don't quite get your point regarding the training!!!
:roll: :roll: rofl rofl rofl

[RGRBOX]

Swiss citizen soldiers are highly competent, serious, deadly professional and the world’s finest marksmen. Interestingly, all Swiss soldiers keep their automatic weapons and ammunition at home. Yet Switzerland has one of the lowest murder rates anywhere
Try giving weapons to the National Guard or even regular Army to take home :bash: :bash: :bash:


The problem with that is, after that one year they soldier is finally trained. then he goes off home and forgets most of what he knows. Yea, they come together once a year of mostly once every 2-3 years and they aren't in shap and they^ve forgotten most of what they know. Most of the Swiss I know don't really take it serious. But there are a few who do. but just a few...

I'm glad you know what you're talking about. The US Army National Guard consists of about 350'000 voluntary soldiers which is about 3/4 of the regular standing Army. Depending on their graduation they undergo traing from one to twelve weeks, and after that 12 weekends a year. I find that quite amusing........and guess what, a lot of those troops are in Iraq.
So, I still don't quite get your point regarding the training!!!
:roll: :roll: rofl rofl rofl

Talking about the Swiss Soldier.... Not the Texas NG...

[hell]

Old School...

http://www.ministry-of-truth.org/images/swiss.jpg

[RGRBOX]

Old School...

http://www.ministry-of-truth.org/images/swiss.jpg

Yea... Ican't imagine seeing any Swiss Holding the flag like that now. Sorry but I live in Geneva, and this place is full of individuals. there's no team in team here...

[XTC]

:cantbeli:

http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/vbs/de/home/ausdem/publikationen/webarchiv/medieninfos2003/031216a.Par.0001.Image.direct.gif/Fahnenmeer_.jpg
http://www.armee.ch/terdiv2/einheiten/terrgt22/Archiv/Ueberfuehrung_A95-XX1/HTML/Startschuss%20zur%20neuen%20Schweizer%20Armee_/DSC04158.jpg

[rister]

Sorry but I live in Geneva, and this place is full of individuals. there's no team in team here...

Don't be sorry..........stupidity doesn't hurt.
:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

[mountainbear]

Sorry but I live in Geneva, and this place is full of individuals. there's no team in team here...

Don't be sorry..........stupidity doesn't hurt.
:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:


No need to be uncivil to mikebox he is only giving an opinion.
You can’t say he is completely wrong, Training and motivation is not at its higher point actually, but I think the new army structures will rectify this in a few years.
Another thing for his defence is what the medias says on my side of the reuschti-graben. Do you ever listen to the news on TSR or even worse read newspaper le Matin, they are continuously bashing the Army, our political system, the gun rights, etc. I don’t think any foreigner can have a good opinion of Swiss patriotism whit our medias.
And he lives in Geneva!! :(

kinghk

Nice pics. Do you have any more pics of fixed mountain fortresses?
Here you are. All of these are old fortresses out of service nowadays.
155mm forteresse gun
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/cantour15/image003.jpg
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/cantour15/image002.jpg
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/cantour15/image005.jpg
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/cantour15/image007.jpg
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/cantour15/image008.jpg

105mm forteresse gun
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/ImagesArmes/image001.jpg
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/ImagesArmes/image002.jpg
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/ImagesArmes/image006.jpg

Rail mobile 53mm turret.
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/ArmesSect/image002.jpg

Old 120mm mortar
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/Armes/boule02.jpg
http://www.asmem.ch/Web/images/Armes/Ob12rap_01.jpg
Pics are from www.asmem.ch

[kinghk]

Here you are. All of these are old fortresses out of service nowadays.
155mm forteresse gun


Thanks !
They seem to have a lot in common with our coastal fortresses.
BTW; what happened to this old fortresses? Are they disabandoned or are they preserved as museums?

[tenda]

wow the pic's of the fortess are impressive in italy we use to have something similar ......my specialisation during the military service was gunman..... ;)
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/fortificazioni.htm
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/fortificazioni.htm

[kinghk]

wow the pic's of the fortess are impressive in italy we use to have something similar ......my specialisation during the military service was gunman..... ;)
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/fortificazioni.htm
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/fortificazioni.htm

Thanks for the link. I dont speak a word italian, but I got the impression that the fortresses were old tank turrets. Correct? More pics ? :D

[tenda]

wow the pic's of the fortess are impressive in italy we use to have something similar ......my specialisation during the military service was gunman..... ;)
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/fortificazioni.htm
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/fortificazioni.htm

Thanks for the link. I dont speak a word italian, but I got the impression that the fortresses were old tank turrets. Correct? More pics ? :D
...yes you're correct...in it they've placed shermans and m26 turret's...many naval guns and machine guns of different calibres... ;)
i will try to post the pic's ok...? ;)http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/foto2.htm
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/foto4.htm
http://digilander.libero.it/cacciatoridellealpi/orsaria1972.p1.htm

[b33f]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army56.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army46.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army37.jpg


What's this rocket launchers name?

[tenda]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army56.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army46.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army37.jpg


What's this rocket launchers name?
....panzerfaust 3.... ;)

[b33f]

[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army56.
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army46.jp
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army37.jp


What's this rocket launchers name?
....panzerfaust 3.... ;)

thanks. This thing is able to penetrate 700mm RHA!?!

[tenda]

[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army56.
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army46.jp
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/Army/Army37.jp


What's this rocket launchers name?
....panzerfaust 3.... ;)

thanks. This thing is able to penetrate 700mm RHA!?!
...i must check my database....i've heard of a latest version with a impressive penetration... :)

[McHorn_cs]

I deliver my opinion to you when to the Swiss army that I know extremely well, this army of militia to very good materiel means and people, only this army is directed by a band of men being unaware of all that is the true conflict.

These Switzerland instructors are only of young adults who have fun to play has the war with the put materiel has provision by the confédération.
(une great part in all the case)

When this video of 71 MB has, it is really the bottom of the hole which to be proud of a pitoyble thing similar! One demontre of shooting us certeinement, which everyone knows it, is not that a miserable arms among our army!

The Swiss army could pretendre an army worthy of this name in year 70-80, but since army XX1 it is a confirmation for all, the Swiss army will never be able defendre its territory where necessary.

[rister]

deliver my opinion to you when to the Swiss army that I know extremely well, this army of militia to very good materiel means and people, only this army is directed by a band of men being unaware of all that is the true conflict.

These Switzerland instructors are only of young adults who have fun to play has the war with the put materiel has provision by the confédération.
(une great part in all the case)

When this video of 71 MB has, it is really the bottom of the hole which to be proud of a pitoyble thing similar! One demontre of shooting us certeinement, which everyone knows it, is not that a miserable arms among our army!

The Swiss army could pretendre an army worthy of this name in year 70-80, but since army XX1 it is a confirmation for all, the Swiss army will never be able defendre its territory where necessary
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I know this is meant to be English...but..........I still can't understand!!!!
Must be a Telugu translation from Babelfish.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[RGRBOX]

Sorry but I live in Geneva, and this place is full of individuals. there's no team in team here...

Don't be sorry..........stupidity doesn't hurt.
:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

You can say what you want to rister, I served in a Professional Army for 10 Years. I know what one is suppose to look like, act like, train like, and be lead like. I tell it like I see it. It's from the mouths of Swiss in the military, who tell me that the situation is crap. Officers who tell me that the Swiss has a pouge Army. Your army is guarding Embasies, not getting the best out of the annual training and lead by a bunch of old men at the top, who were Privates when Hitler was crossing Europe with the SS. Things were going in a good direction until, the Army desided to shorten Officer training, and push out good officers from the military, I know many of your good officers, I also know alot of the problems facing you and your Army for the future. There are a lot of great Swiss soldiers out there trying to fight the losing battle with the highers. Until the Swiss Army finishes with the changes needed to make a profesional Army, which will take a long time and build a strong NCO corps and stop allowing young boys without enough training to lead themselves, lead soldiers as Lts. then this will continue to harass the military. The only way for Switzerland is without an Army or have a profesional Army. The Militias will not continue to work in the future. and if any of you think it will then visit a professional army and see what it takes to be at that level. The Swiss sadly is a country of individuals, I read the papers, I talk to the people, I live and own property here, my children go to school in a sociaty where family is last and there are more bankers in prison then murderers... this is what I see, aragence, and slow to react. I love this place, it just hurts to see what's before my eyes sometimes... I've been living here for almost 10 years now... what do you think? will there be change? can there be change? This is me talking, this is what I see, and hear everyday...

[KaG90]

im afraid to say that mike is right. he has stated exactly the problems that our army has...
but i dont agree that the militiasystem will stop working. its the only system that does work in switzerland.
we couldnt form a decent professional army because of our neutrality. we couldnt justify the money a professional army costs and the soldiers would lose motivation, training for an incident that would never really happen in the next say 30-50 years (an invasion)

[Wodan]

common, the swiss army is enough to protect them of their neighbors

who could attack switzerland?

the bunch of german soldiers in nortH?
the bunch of french soldiers in west?
the bunch of italians in sourth?

thats just impossible, those militarys are to small, to protect swiss against them, the swiss military is really ok, like it is!

[striker]

common, the swiss army is enough to protect them of their neighbors

who could attack switzerland?

the bunch of german soldiers in nortH?
the bunch of french soldiers in west?
the bunch of italians in sourth?

thats just impossible, those militarys are to small, to protect swiss against them, the swiss military is really ok, like it is!

You forgot the austrians and the lichtensteinians ;)

[Wodan]

common, the swiss army is enough to protect them of their neighbors

who could attack switzerland?

the bunch of german soldiers in nortH?
the bunch of french soldiers in west?
the bunch of italians in sourth?

thats just impossible, those militarys are to small, to protect swiss against them, the swiss military is really ok, like it is!

You forgot the austrians and the lichtensteinians ;)

I know

I always try to forget about them!

[McHorn_cs]

To attack Switzerland with fighter, we have only 17 FA/18 able to fly.

[Wodan]

To attack Switzerland with fighter, we have only 17 FA/18 able to fly.

what they will be replaced with?

(Eurofighter?)

[mountainbear]

To attack Switzerland with fighter, we have only 17 FA/18 able to fly.

what they will be replaced with?

(Eurofighter?)

They won’t be replaced before 2025, if they are replaced. We only need more spares.
The next program should be the replacement of the F-5 E/F Tiger II. But I have a really bad feeling about it!!! :(

[McHorn_cs]

I will like F22 RAPTOR. :lol:




No Switzerland has only 17 FA/18 which can steal the 15 other not bus not D money.

[RGRBOX]

common, the swiss army is enough to protect them of their neighbors

who could attack switzerland?

the bunch of german soldiers in nortH?
the bunch of french soldiers in west?
the bunch of italians in sourth?

thats just impossible, those militarys are to small, to protect swiss against them, the swiss military is really ok, like it is!

Not attack but who would want to cross CH, if there was a war. There are many possiblities out there.

[Wodan]

common, the swiss army is enough to protect them of their neighbors

who could attack switzerland?

the bunch of german soldiers in nortH?
the bunch of french soldiers in west?
the bunch of italians in sourth?

thats just impossible, those militarys are to small, to protect swiss against them, the swiss military is really ok, like it is!

Not attack but who would want to cross CH, if there was a war. There are many possiblities out there.

I would like to know the swiss equivalents to some stuff:

SAR Lupe sattelite recon system
Fennek
PzH2000
Patriot
(in future) MEADS
Skorpion
Boxer
Puma
MARS
Tiger
Wiesel
Taurus

[Flummox]

I would like to know the swiss equivalents to some stuff:

SAR Lupe sattelite recon system
- Maybe Satos 3/Malachit/Onyx (3 names for one Echelon-like System. Much smaller of course) but its not really the same...

Fennek
- Mowag eagle

PzH2000
- M109 KAWEST ( 47cal. gun 36.4 km max - Loading automat 3shots/15sec or 8shots/min - 30 sec to get in pos. and fire, same time to go away)

Patriot
(in future) MEADS
- we had Bloodhound (30km range, but it isn't in service anymore) It is not planned to buy some replacement now. Air defence is provided by Rapiers, Airforce and Stingers (we have 3000 of them... maybe a bit too many)

Skorpion (no idea what it is, you mean the British Scorpion or something German??)
-

Boxer
- Pirhania II, only armed with one M2, Used as a battle taxi and little support

Puma
- CV9030ch

MARS
- It is planned to buy 16 of them (no idea when)

Tiger
- no precise schedule to buy attack helicopter for now (but it would be planned if danger arrises)

Wiesel
- nothing similar

Taurus
- The airforce is not trained for ATG anymore since the hunter have been scraped. It would be planed to have one squadron used in ATG when we get a F-5 replacement.

Edit:
Our army couldn't fight a war without help anymore. Since WW2 the idea was to find an alliance as soon as we are attacked (we had arrangements with France before WW2... the documents fell in German hands after the invasion, so the germans weren't too happy :P ) We have joined PFP 10 years ago so our army could operate with NATO when needed.

[Wodan]

Skorpion (no idea what it is, you mean the British Scorpion or something German??)


this:

http://www.deutschesheer.de/redaktionen/heer/internet/Contentbase2.nsf/c1256e550036568bc1256982003b7e87/82da4995ae252adfc1256b800045ce58/body/0.526.gif


Der Minenwerfer Skorpion gehört zur Ausstattung der Panzerpionierkompanien. Er kann eine bis zu 3 km lange Minensperre gegen gepanzerte Fahrzeuge legen.

* Motorleistung: 155 kW (210 PS)
* Gewicht: ca. 12t
* Höchstgeschwindigkeit: ca. 40 km/h
* Fahrbereich: 500 km
* Besatzung: 3
* Minenwurfeinheiten: 6
* Minenstreifenbreite: ca. 50 m
* Minenstreifenlänge: ca. 1000 m bis 3000 m
* Kampfbeladung: 600 Panzerabwehrminen

[He219]

<img src=http://www.deutschesheer.de/redaktionen/heer/internet/Contentbase2.nsf/c1256e550036568bc1256982003b7e87/fe70039cd706de78c1256f900035de8e/body/4.1CB2?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg>
Der Minenwerfer Skorpion
(http://media.bwehr.de/bwde/heeronline/landfahrzeuge/heer_skorpion.wmv) WMV File (Save Target)

[Flummox]

thanks for the explanation
No we haven't minelayers like that. During the cold war some places were permanently mined (bridges, tunnels...). Now we have only use Anti-tank mines and claymores (not used as mines, but still easy to turn into mines when needed. So we can claim, that we havent any AP mines anymore...)

Most of our equipment:
http://www.vbs-ddps.ch/internet/groupgst/de/home/planung/milit/fuhrungsreglemente/taktische.Par.0020.DownloadFile.tmp/16%20Ausr%FCstung%20und%20Hauptsysteme.pdf

[rister]

A lot of bridges are still permanently mined!!!!

[.338 LM]

Some videos:

First one (http://www.armee-info.com/download/filme/DSCN1744.MOV)'s a short video of some swiss unit, demonstrating how to take a building with civilians and enemys in it (->flashbangs). A bit shaky, but it does the job.

Second one (http://www.armee-info.com/download/filme/DSCN1750.MOV) shows a demo of close combat. A bit longer and not so shaky as nr. 1.

[werwolf518]

@mikebox
I just wanted to comment what you said about Swiss individuality. Am I right, that you are an American? If not, don't take anything I write after this.
I was now as an exchange student in the US for 1 year. And I have to say, you are educated to be all "rambos". Everybody only looks for himself over here. In school, nobody holds really together. I'm used to, that our class in Switzerland always holds together against any "attack" on our class. The same is with my friends in my freetime. Overhere, everybody looks, that he/she gets the better run about something, they even screw over best friends to gain something out of it. I have seen it many times and I have only been here for 12 months.
So don't call us individual people, open first your eyes, what is going on in your country, before you call other people what they are (or not).

[expat007]

"Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off! It wasn't my war! You asked me, I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn't let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting. Calling me baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!"

[Wodan]

@mikebox
I just wanted to comment what you said about Swiss individuality. Am I right, that you are an American? If not, don't take anything I write after this.
I was now as an exchange student in the US for 1 year. And I have to say, you are educated to be all "rambos". Everybody only looks for himself over here. In school, nobody holds really together. I'm used to, that our class in Switzerland always holds together against any "attack" on our class. The same is with my friends in my freetime. Overhere, everybody looks, that he/she gets the better run about something, they even screw over best friends to gain something out of it. I have seen it many times and I have only been here for 12 months.
So don't call us individual people, open first your eyes, what is going on in your country, before you call other people what they are (or not).

what a bunch of socialist wussies, you swiss are...

[werwolf518]

Exactly this is, what is the decline of Western Civilization. The being a bunch of individuals, only looking for their own fortunes. And I think this will lead to the downfall of Europe and North America. The will of a bunch of individuals has not made up a civilization, the civilization was made up together. But present day society will destroy all that was achieved.
So much to us Swiss "socialist wussies". And in comparison, we are not the ones controled by a red-green coalition, which is only looking for its own fortunes.