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wholagun

11-14-2003, 01:37 PM

Russian army 'sick and hungry'

Sarah Rainsford
BBC Moscow reporter

The average Russian soldier is sick and hungry, according to a report by Human Rights Watch in Moscow.
Conscript soldiers, the reports says, are routinely denied access to adequate food and medical care.

The report says hunger and disease weaken Russian troops
Human Rights Watch is calling on the Russian government to examine the findings, warning that poor nutrition threatens the military's fighting strength.

The Russian army drafts almost 500,000 young men each year, but it is beset by problems including desertion, draft dodging and hazing.

The official diet for a Russian conscript looks healthy enough: the long ration list includes meat and dairy produce, as well as a daily dose of fresh fruit and vegetables.

But Human Rights Watch says soldiers are routinely denied that food, or served rotten produce crawling with bugs. As a consequence, it says, the Russian army is sick.

The report is the result of more than one hundred interviews conducted across Russia.

Its authors admit their methods are not scientific, but argue that their task is to highlight an extremely serious problem.

'Mismanagement'

Anna Neistat, the organisation's director in Moscow, believes the problems stem from corruption and a lack of accountability.

She says much of the money and produce allocated to the military doesn't appear to get through to the conscripts.

In an interview with the BBC, a defence ministry spokesman admitted the possibility of what he called 'local mismanagement'.

He said that was a matter for prosecutors but denied there was any large-scale problem with nutrition.

Human Rights Watch is calling on the government to step in and monitor the military. It also suggesta appointing an army ombudsman to protect conscripts' basic rights.

Problems in the Russian army are nothing new, but these latest findings are likely to make sober reading for the current batch of conscripts waiting for their call-up papers this month.

The report, which is entitled 'To serve without health', has been submitted to the authorities in Moscow and should be considered by the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights on Monday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3268169.stm

Dalleer

11-14-2003, 01:38 PM

Well, not much of a surprise.

Russian Texan

11-14-2003, 03:23 PM

To my knowledge, I have a friend who serves in the Russian army right now, it is mostly true but only in some parts of the infantry because no one wants to serve in it, so they have to get whoever they can get. But hey, I'd rather have a military full of skinnies than fatsos :) The rest of the military: VDV, tankers, navy, flyers, border troops and missile forces are definitely on the rise ever since Putin came to power. Although "tradition" of hazing probably will never go away due to its support by the officers. There was a series of articles recently in one of the russian newspapers about the issue and the interesting thing was how many people support it. On thing has to be noted:hazing in the Russian military is somewhat different from hazing in american highschools and colleges :) Basically it is about people who served longer transferring all the mundane daily chores like cleaning, cooking, etc to newcommers. Officers support it because often it's the only way to make new soldiers, who just came from civilian life and are completely allien to the concept of discipline, to do anything. For example, how many of you would like to clean toilets in the barracks and nevertheless it has to be done... Also alot of people say that hazing makes you much tougher person, it simply weeds out wimps who don't belong and connot be depended upon on the battlefield. Although it has to be noted that hazing is mostly limited to the rears because combat ready units are issued live ammunition.

Trigger

11-14-2003, 03:33 PM

I have the answer:
MMFs
(Mobile McDonalds Franchises)
Then the Russians can be fat bastards like us Yanks! It'll be great for international relations. We'll fatten them up, they'll be forever in our debt, etc., etc....until we need to invade someplace for coconuts or whatever the hot commodity is that week. Then the Russkies will stab us in the back and keep the Big Macs for themselves.
Never trust a Russkie with a full belly.

NcDeuce

11-19-2003, 11:21 PM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20031119/capt.sge.gil22.191103133405.photo00.default-384x260.jpg

The alcohol-hardened winner of a vodka drinking marathon in southwest Russia outpaced all his rivals, but failed to collect his prize of ten bottles of the prized spirit -- after dying on the spot, ITAR-TASS reported.

The other five competitors ended up in emergency care in hospital, and prosecutors in the city of Volgodonsk have filed charges of involuntary homicide against the organisers of the weekend drinking contest, the news agency added.

In 2002, 40,000 Russians died from alcohol poisoning and it is not uncommon for Russian males to down a litre of the liquid on a night out.

:cantbeli:

Come on! Drink responsibly.

Marxist203

11-20-2003, 01:55 AM

I'd rather have fat soldiers than Skinny ones Russian Texan...who's gonna hit harder? I'd rather have a guy with a full belly cause then his grumbling stomach wont give us away on patrol! haha.

martinexsquaddie

11-20-2003, 04:29 AM

sick and hungry russian army won't be bothering anyone any time soon
good

Kingpin

11-20-2003, 06:25 AM

Hehe Those men are definitely sick and hungry :lol: ->

http://www.vif2.ru/images/13408.jpg

http://www.vif2.ru/images/13405.jpg

http://www.vif2.ru/images/13397.jpg

http://www.vif2.ru/images/13354.jpg

http://www.vif2.ru/images/6296.jpg

http://www.vif2.ru/images/5199.jpg

http://www.vif2.ru/images/5167.jpg

http://www.vif2.ru/images/5068.jpg

ßå$tÄ®Ð¢HÏ¿ð

11-20-2003, 07:13 AM

Well that sniper 5th picture down looks baked as hell :lol:
"Dude...weres my target?"

Roger Rabbit

11-20-2003, 09:48 AM

http://www.vif2.ru/images/6296.jpg
I was wondering where my little brother went.

Zach R.

11-20-2003, 10:24 AM

I'm glad to live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. Thank God we live in such a great country.

The Walrus

11-20-2003, 10:30 AM

I think Russia should abandon the tradition of conscription and get a small, proffesional army like Britain, having a massive army doesn't have the same edge now as it did back in WW2, maintaining the cold war relic that is the conscript army is a waste of money which can be better spent on new equiptment and development, I mean what I've heard about the t-95 tank is amazing, it's about time they get it on the production line, but the money is wasted on feeding, clothing, accomodating and equiping conscripts who only stay for (a year?) anyway.

Durandal

11-20-2003, 11:00 AM

Nothing new here. There have always been interesting stories about Russian troops gettin ghte power turned off then sending a unit to "educate" the power company.

There are plenty of militaries in world I definately would not want to be a part of...Russia's is one of them.

Russian Texan, just because someone says something bad about Russia (lately, most which has been truth) you do not need to get so defensive. :)

Finding excuses for a conscript army is bad man. They suck for the most part and we all know it. I feel sorry for them a lot of times.

volfram

11-20-2003, 12:58 PM

I heard Russian army is going to be profesional,and russian speakers foreigners will be able to join in.

Durandal

11-20-2003, 01:08 PM

I heard Russian army is going to be profesional,and russian speakers foreigners will be able to join in.

I also heard that the Russian economy is on a massive rebound and that everyone has joined AA too!

rofl

Roger Rabbit

11-20-2003, 02:27 PM

I think it was posted on here. That Thatcher dude who reckoned the Russians were going to invade. That was funny, haven't laughed so much apart from the time i heard about the 12 ft blood sucking lizards who are going to take over the world.

Royal

11-21-2003, 03:25 AM

Last time I had anything to do with the Russians was Pristina Airport in '99 - they didn't look hungry or non-motivated then :lol:

BTW thanks very much Gen Clark for trying to re-start the cold-war :cantbeli:

JF45

11-21-2003, 03:33 AM

Roger Rabbit

11-21-2003, 05:19 AM

I'm building a nuclear bunker as we speak.

Kingpin

11-21-2003, 06:12 AM

Royal

11-21-2003, 06:47 AM

Gen Clark as SACEUR ordered Gen Sir Mike Jackson (now CGS) to seize Pristina airport before (or if necessary from) a Russian Airborne unit that had travelled through Serbia from MND(N) in Bosnia.

Clark tried to task elements of UKSF and 16 Air Assault Bde to do the job for him, bypassing Jackson (the theatre commander). Jackson found out, stalled the mission (which would have been a boodbath on both sides) and told Clark "f**k off, I'm not starting WWIII on your behalf".

Kingpin

11-21-2003, 06:52 AM

Royal

11-21-2003, 07:05 AM

The Russians were well led and well motivated. Because they had come from a NATO Op (SFOR) they were being paid considerably more than their counterparts in Russia. The NCO's and officers I talked to were professionals with plenty of comabt experience (Chechnya & in some cases Afganistan).

Although both sides were wary of each other, a mutual respect soon developed - there were some silly attempts to piss them off (restricting their water supplies and the like), but they realised that those came from on high.

That said, we weren't exactly partying together - there was too much suspicion on their part. Sick and hungry they certainly weren't (although I heard that they'd gone through the PX at Eagle Base like a plague of locusts before they moved into Serbia ;) ).

Kingpin

11-21-2003, 07:12 AM

Sick and hungry they certainly weren't (although I heard that they'd gone through the PX at Eagle Base like a plague of locusts before they moved into Serbia ;) ).

It's cheaper than buy all the same in Russia as i heard. They just save their money. ;)

Thanks for answer.

And what can you tell about serbs and albanians tensions after your arrival? (once again from your own experience)

Did you've seen any serb alive before most of them left Kosovo? ;)

Royal

11-21-2003, 07:52 AM

There were (and still are) plenty of Serbs alive in Kosovo. Many have left through murder and intimidation by the UCK other Albanian paramilitaries/terrorists. Significant populations remain in Mitrovica and in Pristina itself, although the countryside has been largely depopulated of Serbs and Gypsies.

I've just re-read the above, and while true it appears to be totaly biased towards the Serbs. It is certainly true that the VJ, MUP and Serbian paramilitaries commited atrocities in the run up to the NATO invasion. However the boot is very much on the other foot now.

GazB

11-21-2003, 11:38 PM

"However the boot is very much on the other foot now."

Ironic, NATO went in to prevent suffering and all they could manage was to share the suffering around.

Those serbs who did do bad things are long gone back to serbia and those serbs who remain must take the punnishment for what their compatriots did. Justice? I don't think so.

Money well spend by NATO it seems.

I remeber reading somewhere that the Russians in Kosovo later ran short of food and supplies as they didn't really have a very robust logistics train and that Mike Jackson ordered his troops to offer the Russians some food and material. I think he said something like the fact that they were here and they weren't going away any time soon meant they had to work together... refusing to help them now would be counterproductive. The British officers seem to make more sense than some american ones...

Adri

11-22-2003, 05:48 AM

hmmm can you (all) come over to Norway and talk to our politicians ( :fork: ) so that we remove our conscript army and give more money to our profesional army ?

I would like it very well !

:hug:

(what the hell sould we have an conscript army for ???? the only thing they do is to eat and drink....no military training at all...oh and they even gets payed for it....hmmm and they gets very much......stupied conscript army !!!!)