Two Black Hawk helicopters down in the city...

[NcDeuce]

BREAKING NEWS Two U.S. Black Hawk helicopters crash in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Status of crew and passengers unknown, military sources say. Details soon.

This does not sound good, choppers down in an urban enviroment. Hope the boys get the crash sites secure fast...

[NcDeuce]

Two U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopters (search) crashed in Mosul on Saturday, the U.S. military said. Witnesses said the helicopters collided in mid-air.

A military spokesman said the two helicopters belonged to the 101st Airborne Division (search), which controls northern Iraq and is based in Fort Campbell, Ky. The spokesman did not comment on the cause of the crash or possible casualties.

U.S. forces, Iraqi police and firefighters were securing the area. There is no indication yet as to whether enemy action was involved. It's not yet known how many people were on aboard nor how many casualties there were.

Witnesses said the helicopter came down in Borsa (search), a residential neighborhood in Mosul (search), Iraq's third-largest city.

"I was leaving the mosque and I heard a boom," said a witness names Hani. He said that two helicopters collided in mid-air before one crashed onto the roof of a house, adding that he did not know what happened to the other aircraft.

Sixteen U.S. service members were killed on Nov. 2 when a Chinook helicopter (search) carrying dozens of soldiers to their leave was struck by a missile near Fallujah (search), apparently launched by fighters.

A Black Hawk helicopter was also shot down on Nov. 7 near Tikrit, killing all six soldiers aboard.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[Seraphim]

Take a look at the other thread. :roll:

[NcDeuce]

.12 killed when 2 Black Hawks crash in Mosul
From CNN's John Raedler
Saturday, November 15, 2003 Posted: 2:19 PM EST (1919 GMT)

BAGHDAD (CNN) -- Twelve U.S. soldiers were killed and nine were wounded Saturday evening when two U.S. military helicopters crashed in a residential area of the northern city of Mosul, a coalition military spokesman said.

At least 12 dead, :(

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/11/15/sprj.irq.crash/story.mosul.map.jpg

[Argyll]

According to reports one was brought down by RPG.
So much for the change in Helo tactics.....this is getting very very costly,and the resolve must be strong.........sympathies to the families :(

[Ichhabe]

I would not be surprised when video's of these attacks starts to circle on the Internet.

Then we also will know who is behind them.

[Steve Andrews]

BBC news reports that witnesses saw one hit by rocket/missile. It then collided with the other.

[Maverick77]

17 KIA now

1 MIA

RIP

[duck]

Israel has vast experience in this field and I hope it is being used by the Coalition. Turkey is another country that has long exprerience in fighting an urban insurgency. What are allies for...

[Mr. Nielsen]

One helicopter getting hit and then hitting another one?

Perhaps if they were flying in close formation. That would surely be very bad luck.

I doubt israeli tactics would be useful, as the scenarios are quiet different. The palestinian areas are geographical very small enclaves, and they are essentially without arms. Iraq is huge with loads of leftover munitions.

[papasmerf]

TF you seem to know somewhat about helicopters... could you please explain how is it possible for 2 choppers to collide? Let's take it that the helicopter being struck by an RPG is false, and it's not like these pilots are flying blindfolded or in complete dark with 0 sight ... I really don't get it.

PS

Hood, I formatted my PC and I tried to log onto my old account Splinter26, but it says I put in the wrong password :[ could you help me out with that somehow? Thank you.

[Uncle Chô]

could you please explain how is it possible for 2 choppers to collide? ... I really don't get it.
:cantbeli: Are you kidding ? Just as 2 cars crash when one of them try to avoid a small animal on the road !

Just have a look at this video : http://helimat1.free.fr/video/crashx2.mpeg

This was a very peacefull military tattoo in Kuwait or Abu Dhabi, celebrating one year of a free Kuwait. It ends in a drama.

Back to Iraq. Try to imagine a tense combat situation at dusk with all the stress and just a half second to react... The pilot of the damaged aircraft did what he was supposed to do : gain altitude to take control over the machine then try to find a "safe" crash site. But he failed because it came all of a sudden hell and his mate did not had a time to anticipate the maneuver. That is how I can imagine it happened.

Helos are wonderfull machines but are also very fragile, very instable and vulnerable. No wonder why the "Think Tanks" guys at the Pentagone try to minimize their role and replace them with more UAV (see the RAH-66 Comanche case). Remember the "0 death" philosophy that prevailed some years ago :roll:

[Argyll]

After last week, these helo's should not have been flying so close to each other,that is totally unexcusable,no BS here about conditions these guys have NVG's,and have been using them for years
Somebody screwed the pooch,even aircraft don't fly that close formation over enemy territory,it looks like there were no lessons learn't,and they paid for that,which is really sad........................it's another very dark day for the US,and I really feel for you guys........words are not enough :(

[marktigger]

sorry to hear about the helecoptors.
my sympathies to the families and comrades of the fallen.

[Skaman]

such a shame...... god bless them.

[ShotOver]

US command said 17 soldiers were killed and five injured when two Blackhawk helicopters crashed in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul.

One soldier remained unaccounted for, the US command said.

The death toll surpassed that of the November 2 crash of a Chinook helicopter, which was shot down near Fallujah.

Sixteen died in the Chinook crash.

A statement by the US command said one helicopter was carrying a quick reaction force and the other ferried soldiers on a transport mission in northern Iraq.




The statement did not give the cause of the crash, although some soldiers at the scene said at least one of the Black Hawks may have been hit by ground fire.

Witnesses said the two Blackhawks collided in mid-air and came down in a residential area of western Mosul.

"We will not speculate on the cause of these crashes," the statement said.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/World/story_53167.asp

[IDFM203]

RIP to the families and to those brave soldiers that were killed :(

Now with that said I do have some constructive criticism and don’t get all jumpy for I say this out of genuine concern and not out of the usual American bashing that some have here.

In my book there have been to many helicopter crashes or ones brought down by RPG’s or as some have alleged small arms fire. In my opinion, the level since the war started is simply unacceptable and I belive a lot of it was avoidable and I am forced to now question the training these pilots are getting. This is not a swipe against the U.S. military for I do in fact recognise them as the greatest military in the world, but it just seems to me though that the helicopter pilot training and more specifically, training for flying in the middle east is a bit deficient.

I am curious to hear your thoughts..............

Shalom

[Operation Ivy]

RIP Guys :(

We seem to be having a lot of trouble with our helicopters, i think we need to change our tactis on how we use them

[NcDeuce]

TF you seem to know somewhat about helicopters... could you please explain how is it possible for 2 choppers to collide? Let's take it that the helicopter being struck by an RPG is false, and it's not like these pilots are flying blindfolded or in complete dark with 0 sight ... I really don't get it.

PS

Hood, I formatted my PC and I tried to log onto my old account Splinter26, but it says I put in the wrong password :[ could you help me out with that somehow? Thank you.

I haven't looked into the details of this incident much, but it is not surprising to have two helicopters collide occasionally. The formations in which units such as the 101st and 160th SOAR use can have Black Hawks and Chinooks feet away from each other's blades. Flying a helicopter is very intense, the slightest touch or pull can move the bird a whole lot.

There was an event here not too long ago, I believe I was in middle school or so...two Black Hawks from the 101st clipped each other's rotor blades and crashed onto a unit conducting PT. There is a horrifying video of it, I remember watching this and being freaked out. It is tragic and horrifying.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/18/helo.crash/

Anyways, if one of the two Black Hawks that went down earlier today was shot prior to collision, that would help explain the situation. Perhaps, the tail rotor (which produces thrust in a side-way motion and keeps the body of the helicopter from spinning) was shot out from one of the birds. It could easily spin and clip the other bird.

Very tragic situation, helicopters are extremely useful but thousands of pilots and soldiers have died from training accidents, combat, and combat accidents. The benefits still prove worthwhile.

Once again, R.I.P. to the fallen warriors. :(

[ShotOver]

R.I.P :(

[ST4]

R.I.P

[GazB]

The Story I heard on the Radio suggested that one helo on the ground was receieving fire from RPGs so to avoid it the pilot took off rapidly and clipped a passing helo... ie blade to blade contact.

Makes sense to me... if there are two helos visible the one stationary on the ground is easiest to hit with an RPG.


could you please explain how is it possible for 2 choppers to collide?

Hey, If one helo can crash into the ground two can crash into each other... it just takes more skill.

[mimis]

in which unit belong the two helos?

[Stalky-Italy]

BREAKING NEWS Two U.S. Black Hawk helicopters crash in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Status of crew and passengers unknown, military sources say. Details soon.

This does not sound good, choppers down in an urban enviroment. Hope the boys get the crash sites secure fast...

RIP

[papasmerf]

TF you seem to know somewhat about helicopters... could you please explain how is it possible for 2 choppers to collide? Let's take it that the helicopter being struck by an RPG is false, and it's not like these pilots are flying blindfolded or in complete dark with 0 sight ... I really don't get it.

PS

Hood, I formatted my PC and I tried to log onto my old account Splinter26, but it says I put in the wrong password :[ could you help me out with that somehow? Thank you.

I haven't looked into the details of this incident much, but it is not surprising to have two helicopters collide occasionally. The formations in which units such as the 101st and 160th SOAR use can have Black Hawks and Chinooks feet away from each other's blades. Flying a helicopter is very intense, the slightest touch or pull can move the bird a whole lot.

There was an event here not too long ago, I believe I was in middle school or so...two Black Hawks from the 101st clipped each other's rotor blades and crashed onto a unit conducting PT. There is a horrifying video of it, I remember watching this and being freaked out. It is tragic and horrifying.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/18/helo.crash/

Anyways, if one of the two Black Hawks that went down earlier today was shot prior to collision, that would help explain the situation. Perhaps, the tail rotor (which produces thrust in a side-way motion and keeps the body of the helicopter from spinning) was shot out from one of the birds. It could easily spin and clip the other bird.

Very tragic situation, helicopters are extremely useful but thousands of pilots and soldiers have died from training accidents, combat, and combat accidents. The benefits still prove worthwhile.

Once again, R.I.P. to the fallen warriors. :(


Thanks for explanation, I think helicopter pilots need to start flying apart from each other so this doesn't happen again.

[NcDeuce]

in which unit belong the two helos?

101st Airborne Division from Fort Campbell, KY.

I don't think they've gone down to the brigade or regiment level yet.

[NcDeuce]

Chopper victims identified

By AMY RITCHART and KIMBERLY HEFLING
The Leaf-Chronicle and Associated Press

Nine of the 17 soldiers killed Saturday night when two 101st Airborne Division Black Hawk helicopters collided in Mosul, Iraq, were identified Sunday by the Department of Defense.

Five soldiers were identified first -- Sgt. Michael D. Acklin, II, 25, of Louisville, Ky., and Spc. Eugene A. Uhl, III, 21, of Amherst, Wis., both were members of 1st Battalion, 320th Field Artillery; Spc. Ryan T. Baker, 24, of Brown Mills, N.J., and Spc. William D. Dusenbery, 30, of Fairview Heights, Ill., both members of 4th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment; and Sgt. Warren S. Hansen, 36, of Clintonville, Wis., a member of 9th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment.

"He was a fine young man," said Eugene Acklin, Acklin's grandfather. "We are hurt, but so far we'll get along pretty well."

The Department of Defense released four more names late Sunday night. The remaining eight names will be released after notification of next of kin.

Pfc. Sheldon R. Hawk Eagle, 21, of Grand Forks, N.D., was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 320th Field Artillery; Chief Warrant Officer Erik C. Kesterson, 29, of Independence, Ore., was assigned to the 9th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment; Spc. John R. Sullivan, 26, of Countryside, Ill., was assigned to the 626th Forward Support Battalion; 2nd Lt. Jeremy L. Wolfe, 27, of Wisconsin, was assigned to the 4th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment.

Officials at Fort Campbell's Office of Public Affairs said Sunday they would spend the day completing the next of kin notification.

"We feel this is the most important mission we can perform today -- taking care of our families," post spokesman John Minton said in a media release.

The deaths Saturday marked the largest single loss of life for the 101st Airborne Division since 1988, when 17 soldiers died in the collision of two Black Hawk helicopters during training.

Baker had recently been allowed to return to his home in New Jersey for the funeral of his father, Dane, who died suddenly on Oct. 4. As he boarded a plane in Philadelphia, he told his already grief-stricken mother, Victoria, not to worry about him.

"She just buried her husband, and now she's got to bury her baby," said Monica Ewing, Baker's aunt. "How much can a woman take?"

Even as he grieved for his 55-year-old father last month, Baker itched to return to Iraq, his uncle Michael Ewing, said Sunday. He mostly looked forward to getting back to his friends in the 4th Battalion, who referred to him as "Bake."

Baker spent 10 months in Afghanistan, and helicopter crews regularly requested him as a gunner for missions, Michael Ewing recalled.

Baker complained about the heat in Iraq while at home last month, he said, but he never wavered in his support of his mission. "He told us when he left, 'We will get Saddam,'" Michael Ewing said.

Baker has a 2-year-old son who lives with his estranged wife in Tennessee, the family said.

News of Hansen's death hit hard in the rural Wisconsin community of Clintonville, about 45 miles northwest of Appleton, Wis.

"I was in shock when it was announced in church that Warren had died in a helicopter accident in Iraq," said Carl Bruggink, former assistant principal and basketball coach at the local high school, where Hansen graduated in 1986.

The Rev. Vilas Mazemke of St. Martin Lutheran Church said he knew Hansen for 12 years, and the soldier had e-mail him that he was looking forward to returning to Fort Campbell.

The military was where he wanted to be, Mazemke said. "That's what he wanted to be ever since he was a little guy."

Several friends and family gathered at Hansen's home.

"It is too early, too hard to say anything," his mother Beth said Sunday.

Choking back tears, his stepfather James Karlson said, "We are trying to put things together. We are devastated right now."

Bruggink said Beth Karlson told him she was also very concerned because three of Hansen's close friends had also died in the crash. "We thought he would be safe because he was a mechanic and did not fly very often," he said.

Charlie Shingler, one of Hansen's high school football coaches, said after high school, Hansen was like a son to him.

"I can't say enough good things about the guy," Shingler said. "He did everything he could for his country and more. That's how he was brought up. Until his dying breath, he was giving everything for his country."

Dusenbery's family and fiancee told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch he always went by the name "Dave."

"He died doing what he loved, which was being in or near the Black Hawk," said Jessica Wheat, whom Dusenbery planned to marry.

Dusenbery had a military family and wanted to make a career of the Army, she said.

He was born at Portsmouth Naval Hospital in Virginia, where his father, William Dusenbery, served in the Navy.

Wheat spoke for the family Sunday while Dusenbery's father and stepmother, Nancy Dusenbery, gathered with friends and church members at their home in Fairview Heights, which is near St. Louis.

"It's overwhelming, so much all at once. I've lost the most important thing in my life," said Wheat, who had been living with the Dusenberys while her fiancee was deployed.

In Hopkinsville, Ky., the congregation at Sts. Peter and Paul Catholic Church, prayed Sunday for one of their own parishioners killed in another crash Nov. 7, and for the 17 other soldiers who died in Saturday.

"There are too many of them dying right now," said Robert Lambert, 50, a local truck driver whose son is in Iraq serving with a Fort Carson-based unit. Lambert said the news is difficult to bear.

"A lot of times, I just don't want to listen to it any more," he said.

Fort Campbell has lost 51 soldiers in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Sixteen other soldiers from the special forces unit have been killed since Sept. 11, 2001, fighting in Afghanistan and the Philippines.

Today, a funeral Mass is planned at Sts. Peter and Paul for Chief Warrant Officer 3 Kyran Kennedy, who died Nov. 7.

Pete Milbauer, 64, an usher at Sts. Peter and Paul who served four tours in Vietnam, said the deaths are a difficult, but inevitable part of war.

"You're there for a purpose and that happens when you fight a war," Milbauer said.

He said he chastised his sister for opposing the war in Iraq, saying it was bad for troop morale and bad for the country.

"When I came back home, we were treated like dirt. You didn't want to wear a uniform, and that's just left a bitter taste in my mouth," he said.

The 20,000-plus strong 101st is not expected to return until February, one year after it left.

"What I see here is deep concern, and I see fear. I see the unknown and I see people turning to one another," the Rev. Carl McCarthy said after Mass at the church in Hopkinsville.

"I personally wish they'd come home and that the war would end," McCarthy said.

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/news/stories/20031117/localnews/656763-239312.jpg
Hansen

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/news/stories/20031117/localnews/656763-239313.jpg
Baker

[Andyman]

sorry to hear that news. Don't really know what to say except my sympathies to those who feel the deepest sense of loss...their comrads

:(