Revolution in Kyrgyzstan. [Archive]

fdt

03-21-2005, 03:28 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/kyrgyzstan.riots.ap/index.html

10,000 riot in Kyrgyzstan

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan (AP) -- At least 10,000 pro-democracy protesters stormed a police station and occupied several state buildings in Kyrgyzstan, a government spokesman said, in the biggest demonstration since allegedly fraudulent elections last month.
The government said it was ready to negotiate with the protesters who have demanded President Askar Akayev's resignation.
"We hope there will be no further violence," presidential aide Abdil Seghizbayev said.
Opposition leader Kurmanbek Bakiyev said talks would only be possible if Akayev himself sits down at the negotiating table.
"All other lower level negotiations will be just a waste of time," he said.
Police fled to the roof of their station, firing shots into the air to deter the stone-throwing protesters in the southern city of Jalal-Abad, regional government spokesman Orazaly Karasartov said.
He said smoke could be seen rising from the police station and that protesters broke windows.
Local civic activist Cholpon Ergesheva said 20,000 people were taking part in the protests and that the demonstrators had taken over the governor's office in Jalal-Abad.
Several people were believed to be injured, though it was not clear how many.
Ergesheva said two of the three buildings at the police station had burnt down and that all the police officers had fled.
Some protesters remained at the police station while others occupied the nearby mayor's office after the soldiers guarding that building also left, she said.
Jalal-Abad governor, Jusup Sharipov, said there were not enough police officers in the region to immediately restore order.
The riot was the latest in a string of nationwide protests sparked by the Feb. 27 parliamentary elections in which President Akayev's allies fared overwhelmingly well. Critics claim the vote and a subsequent runoff election were marred by widespread abuses.
Europe and the United States said the polls were seriously flawed, a charge denied by the government.
Sunday's riot came a day after police forcibly evicted demonstrators from the governor's office in Jalal-Abad and another government building in the city of Osh. More than a dozen people, including three police officers, were injured and more than 200 demonstrators were arrested, police and civic activists said.

Protesters were still occupying five other state buildings in southern and western districts.
Street rallies across the country have also increasingly gained momentum. On Saturday, about 8,000 protested in three cities.

"The authorities' decision to use force against people won't bring any good. It will only provoke anger," said Bakiyev, leader of the opposition People's Movement of Kyrgyzstan, after the forced evictions.
The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe issued a statement Sunday, urging the government and the opposition to refrain from using force and to begin a dialogue.
Some analysts have suggested Kyrgyzstan is ripe for an outburst of the mass protests experienced by other post-Soviet countries, such as last year's mass demonstrations after fraud-marred elections in Ukraine and the 2003 "Rose Revolution" in Georgia that brought down Eduard Shevardnadze.

More on the topic (in russian) here:

http://www.izvestia.ru/world/article1416729

http://www.mk.ru/numbers/1550/article50240.htm

Grimmer

03-21-2005, 03:45 AM

Let the freedom reign! woot

barakelde

03-21-2005, 05:07 AM

The riot reports are true. However, people here report higher numbers than 10K: 50K or even 70K.

I live in Kyrgyzstan and I am in a rather interesting situation:

a) I do not trust our current government. At all. I have worked with a quite a bit of government officials and members of the outgoing Parliament. Most of them are crooks. I would be very happy to see them go. I would be also extremely happy to see our President and his family get the f*ck out of the country. Our First Lady is suspected to be involved in bribery at designating government officials, while the President’s son and First Daughter’s husband seem to control most of the profitable businesses in the country:(

b) OTOH, I do not trust our opposition. Some representatives of our opposition are twisty and turny little f*cks who will, ehm, twist and turn to fit anything into their agenda. In fact, I would rather not have most of our opposition in our new government.

So, basically it is choosing between two evils. The problem is, of course, figuring which one is the lesser. :lol:

BTW, I live in the capital of Kyrgyzstan (Bishkek, northern part of Kyrgyzstan) and everything is rather quiet here. Most of the riots are in the Southern areas of the country.

P.S. Today is a national holiday here (Nooruz, vernal equinox, celebrated as New Year’s Day here) and usually the President attends the celebrations at our Central Square. However, people report that he was not there today and the rumor is that he flew to Moscow to get Putin’s support in putting down the riots by force. If the rumor is true, I hope that Putin tells our President to STFU and get stuffed. :|

Jani.R

03-21-2005, 05:15 AM

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kg.html

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/maps/kg-map.gif

fdt

03-21-2005, 05:40 AM

The riot reports are true. However, people here report higher numbers than 10K: 50K or even 70K.

I live in Kyrgyzstan and I am in a rather interesting situation:

a) I do not trust our current government. At all. I have worked with a quite a bit of government officials and members of the outgoing Parliament. Most of them are crooks.

[..................]

So, basically it is choosing between two evils. The problem is, of course, figuring which one is the lesser. :lol:
[...........]

P.S. Today is a national holiday here (Nooruz, vernal equinox, celebrated as New Year’s Day here) and usually the President attends the celebrations at our Central Square. However, people report that he was not there today and the rumor is that he flew to Moscow to get Putin’s support in putting down the riots by force. If the rumor is true, I hope that Putin tells our President to STFU and get stuffed. :|
Many people here will wonder.."Where the f...k is this Kyrg...zggss...yzstan???"

What can You write about the parlamentary elections? How was it?

Izvestia has written smth like this: "Another conflict on our close vicinitiy, and another that Russia is invloved on the side of current government"...

Whoare the ppl that are heading this opposition? The reports were that those are mostly former secret police and military folks (one of them is reportedly imprisoned?)...

sp2c

03-21-2005, 05:59 AM

are there still coalition aircraft in Kyrchistan??

what is the opposition's (and the kyrchistani's(?)) stand the whole war on terror we all got them involved in?

barakelde

03-21-2005, 06:45 AM

Elections.
The OSCE report will tell you about our elections in far greater detail than I ever can: http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2005/02/4334_en.pdf?PHPSESSID=0bdb7cb86666dcfd713286f14848ce95

My personal opinion is that our elections (at least in certain districts) were very far from being fair and open. :(
- For example, the number of registered voters for University District (the one where our First Daughter was running) was increased twice between election rounds (the increase is claimed to be due to so-called "dead souls" - deceased or non-existent voters). You can bet where the additional votes went to :(
- I am personally aware of cases where voters were threatened to vote for pro-government candidates. (For example, government scholarship students were threatened by deans to vote for pro-government candidates).
- I am leaning to think that that some of the elected candidates simply bribed their voters (some of the elected candidates are obvious idiots/known crooks that no sane person, imho, would've ever voted for them :lol)

Coalition aircraft.
Yes, we do have coalition aircraft stationed in Kyrgyzstan (Manas/Ganci Air Base). Funny thing is that approx. 60 km. away from Manas Air Base we have another Air Force Base. And it is Russian :P
I don't think there are that many countries in the world that have both US and Russian air force bases. :lol
Another funny thing is that Russian airbase is located at Kant (means "sugar" in Kyrgyz). The ****unciation of the word "Kant" is similar to that of the word that denotes female genitalia in English :)

Opposition's/Kyrgyzstanis' stand on war on terror:
I am pretty sure that members of the opposition fully support war on terror. However, not all of them would define US and Allies' efforts in Iraq as "war on terror".
Same thing applies to ordinary people. Most of them fully support war in Afghanistan. OTOH, Iraq is viewed as an entirely different matter.
Basically: "war on terror" - yes, "war in Iraq" – mostly no. BTW, coalition aircraft stationed in Kyrgyzstan can be used only in Afghanistan, not Iraq (part of the deal with Kyrgyz Govt.)

Edit: Echo of Moscow (Russian radionetwork) has just confirmed that President Akaev is in Moscow (as I've mentioned above, it is likely that Akaev is seeking Putin's support in putting the riots by force). I hope that Akaev does not come back woot

fdt

03-21-2005, 06:53 AM

US ambassador in Bishkek press conference (of 16 th March 2005) transcript. Interesting read.

http://bishkek.usembassy.gov/amb_press_conference_march.htm

[/quote]

Marmot1

03-21-2005, 07:00 AM

I have strange feeling that another colorfull revolution is coming.... :lol: this time betwen china and russia... I bet moscow is very happy about that... but as RomanRussianAss says... They can do nothing about that :-D

me-262 I hope you will chose best for your contry, good luck...

barakelde

03-21-2005, 07:01 AM

US Ambassador is da man :hug:

I am very glad to see that the electricity is on today. But as a former boy scout, I always want to be prepared. So I brought a lantern in case it goes out (holds up small keychain flashlight).

All of the publishing houses in Kyrgyzstan belong to/are controlled by the govt. During election campaign them f*cks from the government cut off electricity supply to the sole independent publishing house in Bishkek (this publishing house is where most of the opposition newspapers are published).[/quote]

fdt

03-21-2005, 07:08 AM

That's the last announcement of the Paris Club.

http://www.clubdeparis.org/en/news/page_detail_news.php?FICHIER=com11105353160

Paris Club creditors agreed on March 11, 2005 with the Government of the Kyrgyz Republic to a reduction of its public external debt. This agreement follows the International Monetary Fund’s approval of the Kyrgyz Republic's arrangement under the Poverty Reduction and Growth Facility on February 23, 2005. Given the commitment by the Kyrgyz authorities to policies that will secure an exit from the Paris Club and to seeking comparable treatment from their other external creditors, Paris Club creditors granted a comprehensive debt treatment under the Evian Approach. This agreement cancels an equivalent of US$ 124 million due on loans and credits contracted by the Kyrgyz Republic before August 31, 2001 (“cut-off-date”, see attached technical notes) and of debts previously rescheduled in 2002 by the Paris Club. Moreover, it reschedules US$ 431 million. This rescheduling shall be conducted according to the following terms: commercial credits are to be cancelled by 50%, the remaining 50% shall be repaid over 23 years of which 7 years of grace at Appropriate Market Rate. ODA credits are to be repaid over 40 years of which 13 years of grace at interest rates at least as favourable as the concessional rates applying to those loans. To take into account the capacity of payment of the Kyrgyz Republic, moratorium interest due under this agreement shall be capitalized at 85% in 2005, 75% in 2006, 70% in 2007 and 65% in 2008. Those interest amounts shall be repaid over 23 years of which 7 years of grace.

As I have noticed the issue of debt writing down was some kinda issue between govt and opposition. @ Me-262... Could You give any comment on that?

barakelde

03-21-2005, 07:37 AM

As I have noticed the issue of debt writing down was some kinda issue between govt and opposition. @ Me-262... Could You give any comment on that?

Where did you read that there was an issue between govt and opposition re: debt restructuring? IFAIK, there was no such dispute.
The only thing I've heard is that the govt. was extremely proud of a debt write-off (in Russian that would be "áèëè ñåáÿ ïÿòêîé â ãðóäü") while the opposition was saying that even though debt restructuring is good news, the primary focus of the Govt. should be on promoting economic growth and eliminating poverty.

Edit:
Found info here:
http://www.cbonds.info/eng/news/index.phtml/params/id/309161

Basically, our opposition says that debt write-off decision should've been postoned to a later date as such news gave an unfair advantage to the pro-government forces.

fdt

03-21-2005, 07:41 AM

A few snapshots from Manas airbase:

http://www.defence.gov.au/news/raafnews/editions/4408/images/03.jpg

http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00019/Manas-telt-07-370_19712a.jpg

http://www.af.mil/media/photodb/web/web_040421-F-0000S-003.jpg

http://www.afrc.af.mil/news/afrcnews/photos/landing.jpg

BTW, it's interesting puzzle. Manas base (US troops) is 60 or smth kilometers from Kant base (Russian), the country is boiling and Mr president sits now in Moscow... VERY interesting indeed.

Marmot1

03-21-2005, 07:49 AM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050321/capt.mosb10503211035.kyrgyzstan_protests_mosb105.jpg

seems that this time yellow will be the color ;)

barakelde

03-21-2005, 07:49 AM

Scottie

03-21-2005, 07:53 AM

http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00019/Manas-telt-07-370_19712a.jpg

heh..norwegians over there...strange..
anyone know anything about this?

barakelde

03-21-2005, 07:55 AM

http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00019/Manas-telt-07-370_19712a.jpg

heh..norwegians over there...strange..
anyone know anything about this?

What specifically would you like to know? ;) Yes, we did have norwegians stationed at Manas. We also had (have) French, Dutch, Korean and a number of other troops stationed there.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/manas.htm

Ichhabe

03-21-2005, 08:10 AM

The Norwegian as with the others had their C-130 flying out from there to Afghanistan with supplies. The F-16s also startet their different missions from there.

sp2c

03-21-2005, 08:15 AM

http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00019/Manas-telt-07-370_19712a.jpg

heh..norwegians over there...strange..
anyone know anything about this?

European Participating AirForces F16 Detachment to Afghanistan

there were 6 F16's from Norway and six from Denmark and six from Holland flying missions over Afghanistan a year ago ... I think they're all gone now though

Coalition aircraft.
Yes, we do have coalition aircraft stationed in Kyrgyzstan (Manas/Ganci Air Base). Funny thing is that approx. 60 km. away from Manas Air Base we have another Air Force Base. And it is Russian :P
I don't think there are that many countries in the world that have both US and Russian air force bases. :lol
Another funny thing is that Russian airbase is located at Kant (means "sugar" in Kyrgyz). The ****unciation of the word "Kant" is similar to that of the word that denotes female genitalia in English :)

Opposition's/Kyrgyzstanis' stand on war on terror:
I am pretty sure that members of the opposition fully support war on terror. However, not all of them would define US and Allies' efforts in Iraq as "war on terror".
Same thing applies to ordinary people. Most of them fully support war in Afghanistan. OTOH, Iraq is viewed as an entirely different matter.
Basically: "war on terror" - yes, "war in Iraq" – mostly no. BTW, coalition aircraft stationed in Kyrgyzstan can be used only in Afghanistan, not Iraq (part of the deal with Kyrgyz Govt.)

thanks

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050321/capt.mosb10503211035.kyrgyzstan_protests_mosb105.jpg

seems that this time yellow will be the color ;)

former French colony?

p-)

fdt

03-21-2005, 08:29 AM

A few snapshots from Manas airbase:
BTW, it's interesting puzzle. Manas base (US troops) is 60 or smth kilometers from Kant base (Russian), the country is boiling and Mr president sits now in Moscow... VERY interesting indeed.

Are you implying that there is a possibility of a military stand-off between Russia and US in Kyrgyzstan?

I think that there is zero potential for such development. ;) Seriously, I do not think that the situation will go this far.No I do not imply that. All I wanted to say; it's that the political/military environment of this internal Kyrgyzstani conflict if far more complicated that it looks at first glance. More complicated for all sides both internal and external. What should worry You is that the situation's development depends more on those external factors that internal ones :| .

Abbyy

03-21-2005, 09:40 AM

me-262 I hope you will chose best for your contry, good luck...

I read between your lines: choose opposition because it's cool. :roll:

barakelde

03-21-2005, 09:51 AM

barakelde

03-21-2005, 10:40 AM

Some pictures from Osh and Jalal-Abad

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/ernis/osh6.jpg

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/ernis/osh9.jpg

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/ernis/osh10.jpg

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/ernis/osh12.jpg

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/ernis/ja10.jpg

Found a web-site with news in English:

http://enews.ferghana.ru/main.php
(dunno how reliable this source is).

Some background info:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4368837.stm

Igor01

03-21-2005, 12:45 PM

I read between your lines: choose opposition because it's cool. :roll:

welcome, threadhijacker ;)

I can make decisions for myself, thankyouverymuch. I don't think that all of our opposition is "cool" but one thing is for certain - our President and his camarilla is not "cool" at all.
Áëÿòü, â ïðàâèòåëüñòâå æóëèêè, ó îïïîçèöèè ðûëüöå òîæå â ïóøêó (ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå, ó íåêò. åå ïðåäñòàâèòåëåé) :lol: Ýýýõ, ãëàâíîå, ÷òîáû íå áûëî âîéíû.

Another fine example of the US working selflessly and tirelessly to further the cause of thriumphant democratisation in the former USSR, looks like your country is in for a very bumpy ride. "Let freedom reign" indeed.

Source: http://www.kabar.kg/eng/calendar/05/Mar/19/1.htm

http://www.kabar.kg/english/05/Mar/19/image010.jpg

Secret report of the U.S. Ambassador to Kyrgyz Republic Stephen M.Young

Bishkek, Kirghiz Republic
December 30, 2004

Pre-election situation report

Analysis of the social and political situation in Kyrgyzstan testifies the growing instability on the threshold of parliamentary elections in the country. Against the background of economic crisis, accompanied with national impoverishment, corruption in state bodies and outflow of labor force abroad, some other external factors have a strong impact upon the political forces arrangement, i.e. influence (besides our geopolitical interests) of Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and to a lesser extent of the EU countries and radical Islamic ideas proliferated from Iran.
The results of public opinion polls in Kyrgyzstan, conducted by the US Embassy in cooperation with USAID, NDI, IRI, other international organizations including Freedom House, Internews Network, Soros Foundations and the Eurasia Foundation in view of the above-mentioned countries influence on the politically active population, allow us to draw a conclusion that at present none of the states has prevailing influence. The only exception is Russia, which counts considerably in Kyrgyzstan, as it has retained multiform connections with the republic. Akaev, being a protegee of Russia, is guided by Moscow. However, we have not got the facts of Russian financing any candidates or parties.
As regards China, the prospect of Central Asia development puts Beijing into dependence on the Kyrghyz hydro-electric resources and electric power potential. Thus Kyrgyzstan foreign policy is aimed at trade and economic expansion that coincides with Chinese further plans, in particular those concerning electric power and water distribution. This reason should be taken into consideration when shaping a policy towards Beijing and its presence in the region.
Our military presence in Kyrgyzstan “is annoying” Beijing, and the temporary status of the air force base at Manas airport in Bishkek gives grounds to China to hope for would- be withdrawal of the US troops from Kyrgyzstan. In this regard, we are sure to expect counteracting steps of the Chinese government against our military expansion in the region. At present China renders informal support to the politicians disposed to further development of relations with Beijing and restriction of our military contingent in Kyrgyzstan. In addition, Akaev’s assistance in the struggle against Uigur separatism and religious extremism is obviously insufficient.
In view of the acts of terrorism committed against the US offices last summer in Uzbekistan and the Department of State and our secret services information on further plans of terrorists against the US Embassy in Kyrgyzstan, we are facing the real menace constituted by political acti’c4ties of the: religious extremist party Hizbut Tahrir and its radical Islamic ideas, which exert negative influence upon the formation of pre-election situation in the state.

According to the firsthand information, the radicalism has been actively promoted by Iran, Uzbekistan and Saudi Arabia. The activities of Islamists are set to construct mosques, establish religious educational institutions, arrange pilgrimage, and organize
training of Kyrgyz religious leaders in Muslim countries. At present there are about 30 Muslim organizations and societies operating in Kyrgyzstan. Among them the greatest activity is shown by the office of the international charitable organization Al- Vakf al Isiami. Its leader Muntasir Abu Hasan has friendly relations with Akaev and Sabirov, Kyrgyz MPs, clerical leaders . A.Narmatov, M.Magomedov, O.Chotonov. We have elicited facts about contacts of the party leadership with representatives of the Chechen Diaspora. According to our analysts, Sabirov and Tursunbay Bakir uulu, leader of Erkin Kyrgyzstan, will take advantage of Muslim organizations support at the forthcoming elections. They are keeping in touch with hard liners from HizbutTtahrir to legitimate the party in Kyrgyzstan. On trips to southern areas of Kyrgyzstan some of the embassy staff have found out information on dissemination of leaflets issued by Hizbut Tahrir, which propagandize religious extremism and sharia laws.
Taking into account the interests, of our presence in the region and development of democratic society in Kyrgyzstan, our primary goal — according to the earlier approved plans — is to increase pressure upon Akaev to make him resign ahead of schedule after the parliamentary elections Realizing the plan is of key importance as, we think, the present opposition is not strong enough to challenge the present authorities, though Akaev has claimed he is not going to prolong his terms of office.
We know, Akaev’s adherents suspect the opposition to prepare the same scenario of elections like that one in Georgia and Ukraine. That was indirectly asserted by Akaev at December meeting of the Council of. Defense of the KR. In case of prolongation of presidential powers Akaev is mast likely to take advantage of the assistance rendered by the Russian-speaking part of the population and other ethnic minorities, as well as of several thousand residents who are on earnings in Russia now. In this connection, for better planning of pre-election tactics we ought to remember that Russia remains the basic employer in Kyrgyzstan. Both the pro-Russian public opinion and popularity of the Russian president are rather strong in some northern regions of the country.
According to the materials we sent to the Department of State earlier, at present two formations are shaped on the political arena of Kyrgyzstan. They will struggle for posts in the parliament and then nominate candidates for the presidency. First of all, it is the pre-election block For Powers of People. In July 2004 it united six opposition parties, which nominated K.Bakiev, ex-prime minister and MP, as their single candidate for the presidential post. I think he is the most acceptable candidate in the aspect of fruitful development of relations between the USA and Kyrgyzstan. I met Bakiev on repeated occasions. Bakiev expressed his consent to take advantage of the support after his block’s winning in parliamentary elections. As he said, after ambiguous American involvement in elections in Georgia and Ukraine unconcealed American support provided to a candidate might have a negative effect on his political reputation. Furthermore, he was against falling off in relations with Russia by criticizing on behalf of his party Russian intervening in the Ukrainian elections.
Among the other significant political leaders we name M.Ashirkulov, the former secretary of Security Council, and F.Kulov, who is currently imprisoned. They represent a newly founded party— the Civic Union For Fair Elections.

We believe Ashirkulov’s growing popularity has been arisen from recent Scandals and his demonstrative walkout from the president’s team. In our opinion, it was a specially made up action to promote the president’s friend to head up a “puppet” opposition. In this connection, we advise continuing contacts with another prominent representative of the opposition — F.Kulov, whose imprisonment will end in the middle of 2005. Enjoying deserved popularity and being a victim of regime, he will have sufficient potential to struggle for the presidency.
F.Kulov shares and adheres to American concepts of freedom and democracy and can be viewed as a dubbing candidate for the presidency in case our main candidate Bakiev is defeated.
We have mostly succeeded in developing contacts with another leader of the opposition — R.Otunbaeva, ex-Minister for Foreign Affairs. Through the funds allocated to her we managed to lobby setting up and promoting certain NGOs as well as organizing a unified system of mass media for better coverage over the country to spread her statement about non-interference of Russia in internal affairs of Kyrgyzstan.
With a view to providing favorable conditions and helping democratic opposition leaders come to power, our primary goal for the pre-elections period is to arouse mistrust to the authorities in force and Akaev’s incapacitated corruption regime, his pro-Russian orientation and illegal use of “an administrative resource” to rig elections. In this regard, the embassy’s Democratic commission, Soros Foundations, Eurasia Foundation in Bishkek in cooperation with USAID have been organizing politically active groups of voters in order to inspire riots against pro-president candidates.

We have set up and opened financing for an independent printing office — the Media Support center — and AKIpress news agency to interpret impartially the course of the elections and minimize state mass media propaganda impact. We also render financial support to promising non-governmental tele- and radio companies.

According to public polls results, we can come to conclusion that only a minor part of the population— former USSR citizens — is satisfied with close cooperation with Russia. Young people are most likely oriented to the West. Therefore we consider it extremely important to popularize American way of life among them to diminish Russian influence. At least 45 national higher schools have their local Students in Action organizations, which we are planning to use properly during parliamentary and presidential elections. In our opinion, those additional funds ($5 mm) transferred by the Department of State to hold seminars in all leading Universities of Kyrgyzstan and organize training in western countries turned out insufficient.
Conclusion.
In the view of the pit-election situation and effort to provide fair and democratic elections in the KR and retain our positions in mass media and contacts with the opposition leaders, I advise focusing on discrediting the present political regime, thus making Akaev and his followers responsible for the economic crisis. We should also take steps to spread information on probable restriction of political freedoms during the election campaign.
It is worthwhile compromising Akaev personally by disseminating data in the opposition mass media on his wife’s involvement in financial frauds and bribery at designation of
officials. We also recommend spreading rumors about her probable plans to run for the presidency, etc. All these measures will help us form an image of an absolutely incapacitated president.
It is essential to increase the amount of financial support up to $30 mm to promising opposition parties at the preliminary stage of the parliamentary and presidential elections and allocate additional funds to NGOs including the National Democratic Institute, the International Republican Institute, Freedom house, Internews Network and Eurasia Foundation, since they have reached significant results within the framework of informing the population on preparation for the election and on the process of political forces consolidation.
To minimize Russian influence on the course of elections we ought to urge opposition parties to make appeals to the Russian government concerning non-interference in internal affairs of the KR.
Taking into account arrangements of the Department of. State Plan for the period of 2005-2006 to intensify our influence in Central Asia, particularly in Kyrgyzstan, we view the country as the base to advance with the process of democratization in Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and limit Chinese and Russian capabilities in the area Setting up democratic legitimate opposition in the parliament of Kyrgyzstan is extremely important. To reach the target we should attract groups of independent observers from western humanitarian: organizations, OSCE, and people from Kyrgyz offices of the UN Program of Development. That is necessary: to get control of the election process and eliminate any possible financing of the pro - presidential majority in the parliament.

Stephen M.Young
The U.S. Ambassador to Kyrgyz Republic

Marmot1

03-21-2005, 02:07 PM

ha ha this letter on picture sux... Pure atempt of forgery.... someone put US logo and claims it is goverment paper.... first of all if it is official memo from embassy it should have embassy adress, I have seen many diferent goverment papers from diferent countries and all of them had adress and designation of office from which it comes. And could you explain how this secret paper found his way out of diplomatic mail into Internet? Since I doubt that any inteligence agency would show that they have acces to diplonatic mail of other country... since it is equal to cutting yourself off from source of information.

Igor01

03-21-2005, 02:23 PM

Episode II - You Forgot Poland! :)

I have no proof that the memo is genuine, and I agree with you that the office address and credentials would be nice. However based on the contents of the memo it is quite clear that if this is a forgery, the alleged forger went through quite a trouble of writing up an extended memo and even obtained the signature of the Ambassador. One would think that typing in the address would have been the easier part of such an undertaking :) If it were me, I'd add the not only the address and date, but also full-justify the paragraphs and fixed the spacing. But then again, I haven't seen any US diplomatic reports or memos and wouldn't base my conclusion as to its authenticity on the presense or absense of an address. I would however look closely at the contents...

In short, no, I don't have a definite proof this is genuine, I simply provided a link to an official Kyrgyz News Agency material and yes, I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be a real memo because it's not inconsistent with US policies (I am sure such materials could be found in correspondence boxes of most if not all diplomatic missions, however this one just goes to show that the US not only has clear goals in the regions but also works towards reaching them). But of course, it's only the stupid perpetually drunk Ivans that interfere into other nations' affairs, the Citadel of Light would never do anything like that :)

Marmot1

03-21-2005, 02:45 PM

Thakn you that you did not forgot about my country....
We also like your country too... for example we named recently one of traffic-circles in Warsaw to honour one of former generals of your glorious army... From today we have Dzokhar Dudajev traffic-circle
in Warsaw... I am sure your country will be pleased that we love your generals so much :lol:

Ok and backing to topic... This memo has neither title nor adress nor even date... it seems someone who "created" this document never worked even close to any diplomatic job. As for the signature it is easy to find it and then copy and paste... and it is not a proof of anything. Unfortunatelly if document is scaned or xeroed it is impossible to verify it's authenticity and none respected expert would put his signature under such expertise. Maybe US policy is conistent with this letter but I still doubt authenticity of this document. Someone just required proof to back up his theory and prepared suitable "proof" to foul ppl... It always look more reliable if you show paper... Now we can only guess in whose interest it is to create impression that US is interfering.

Enduring Freedom

03-21-2005, 02:50 PM

...........................

European Participating Air Forces F16 Detachment to Afghanistan

there were 6 F16's from Norway and six from Denmark and six from Holland flying missions over Afghanistan a year ago ... I think they're all gone now though

........................

Yep, EPAF left in September 2003.

Kyrgyzstan is rather beautyfull country.

http://img237.exs.cx/img237/1555/krebetann5nc.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

I served at Ganci Air Base for 6½ months (2002/2003). The rumour was that the coalition had to pay a large sum of money to the airport owner every time one of our planes landed or took off (there was a lot of planes landing and taking off). Interestingly enough the airport is owned by the presidents family ....hmmm.

@ Me-262
I hope the best for you and your country. But I'm sorry to say that I don't think Putin will make a sensible decision. More likely he'll flex his muscles and support a "firm"(=violent) respons to protest.

Igor01

03-21-2005, 03:04 PM

Marmot1

03-21-2005, 03:18 PM

@ Me-262
I hope the best for you and your country. But I'm sorry to say that I don't think Putin will make a sensible decision. More likely he'll flex his muscles and support a "firm"(=violent) respons to protest.

I just wonder what kind of sensible response would a civilized Western government resort to when an unruly mob runs amok, storms and torches government buildings, beats up the police and declares that it will violently overthrough the existing government? This behaviour somehow doesn't strike me like an enlightened opposition movement but more like the "Beer Putch".

Granted, Akaev may have gotten too comfy and tryed to live and rule like a self-styled Asian Despot but that opposition behaves like a bunch of raving lunatics appealing to the uneducated and unemployed youth in the south of the country, inciting them to "rise against the corrupt regime" when their own agenda is probably much worse they they can't even agree amongst themselves and put out a single opposition leader who can unify and pacify these very dangerous forces.

Well I must agree with you to some extent... mob without leader is very dangerous on the other hand I can uderstand that ppl are pissed of when they are poor and uneducated (as you mentioned) and president with his fammily get's rich in not perfectly legal way...

Igor01

03-21-2005, 03:38 PM

Do you know how high unemployment in the Kyrgyz part of the Fergana Valley is? It's not difficult to recruit the marginalized youth from the south of the country and send them off on a rampage with a promise of a better life. The problem is not absense of a leader, but the absense of the conditions for a civilized peaceful resolution of an explosive situation like this.

If some sort of compromise is not reached this insaninty will send all the wrong messages to the neighbouring republics where there's all kinds of homegrown evil "opposition" movements, particularly the Islamists in Tadjikistan and Uzbekistan. Those guys don't **** around, if they get ideas the entire region could be destabilized. And this is just the political tip of the iceberg, if the national and religion cards are played then the **** really will hit the fan early 90's style when only the desperate efforts by the Russians were able to put out the civil wars in the region.

RomanS

03-21-2005, 03:47 PM

and again I must ask
Why does a Polish imigrant gives a **** about Kirgizstan?

fdt

03-21-2005, 03:50 PM

The gretest concern of Russia and US is now, not what will the mob do or what el presidente wish... They are affraid of the new front with the muslim extremists that is likely to open... Those extremist fuc.tards keep a close eye on the situation debelopment there. Russia nor US want the Kyrgyzstan to destabilize. Nobody will "promote democracy" at any cost here... Both Moscow and Washington will make a pressure on Akayev and opposition to settle the things... There is no other way the situation will develop... unless it does.

From islam awareness page

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Kyrgyzstan/factsheet.html

Religious Persecution in Kyrgyzstan

The Kyrgyz government has begun to arrest Muslims whose beliefs it rejects. Although the scale of arrests is not yet the same, the policy disturbingly appeared to be mimicking that of Kyrgyzstan's neighbor, Uzbekistan, which has imprisoned about 7, 000 independent Muslims in the recent years. Such arrests directly violate practitioners fundamental right to religious freedom.

The majority of Muslims affected by the new repression are members of Hizb ut-Tahrir, (Party of Liberation), a non-violent Islamic organization with a strict interpretation of the Koran, that advocates restoration of the Islamic Caliphate.

Most Hizb ut-Tahrir members in Kyrgyzstan are ethnic Uzbeks. They are subject to fines, suspended sentences, or relatively brief stints in prison as punishment for what should be protected religious beliefs and activities. After the 1999 and 2000 armed incursions by the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) into Kyrgyzstan, Kyrgyz courts began more actively to hand down prison sentences to Hizb ut-Tahrir members. In the year since September 11 the government again increased arrests of Hizb ut-Tahrir members and other independent Muslims, justifying the arrests as necessary to counter "extremism," prosecuting them under reworked Soviet laws that criminalize a vaguely defined "incitement to racial enmity," and directing courts to hand down harsh and lengthy terms in prison. The result has been dozens of illegal arrests and convictions, police mistreatment of religious dissidents, and an ever-expanding rift in society between independent religious adherents and followers of state-sponsored

Igor01

03-21-2005, 03:51 PM

Roma, this may sound like a shock, but not all Poles are anti-Russian :) One of my best friends at work is Polish and we agree on most issues. Besides I think it's a great thing that anybody and their mother can join a discussion here as long as it's kept civil and entertaining.

RomanS

03-21-2005, 03:52 PM

Nizark

03-21-2005, 04:04 PM

About the US and Russia being against Islamists, anyone know anything else about the 'Shanghai 5' ? This is something i've had since July of 2001.. Sorry about the spacing, it was a word file

19 July 2001
'Shanghai Five' expands to combat Islamic
radicals

By JTSM contributor John Daly
Russia's President Vladimir Putin,
President Jiang Zemin of China and the
leaders of four former Soviet Central
Asian states signed a declaration on 15
June creating the Shanghai Co-operation
Organisation (SCO).
The original 'Shanghai Five' of Russia,
China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and
Tajikistan has expanded to include
Uzbekistan as a new member. Uzbekistan's
membership changes the orientation of the
organisation; while it does not have a
border with China, it does have a
frontier with Afghanistan, and its
Islamic dissident elements are the most
active in the region.

The organisation is a diplomatic
innovation for China, traditionally
isolationist and wary of multilateral
alliances. The original 'Shanghai Five'
was formed in 1996 as a forum to resolve
old Soviet-Chinese border disputes. Under
Putin, China and Russia have grown much
closer, bound by their mutual distrust of
US hegemony and their perceived need to
promote a multipolar world. The republics
of Central Asia have been caught between
the two regional giants while facing
immense internal problems of economic
stagnation and growing political unrest.

The organisation has the capacity for
expansion. Pakistan has already expressed
an interest in observer status, and
Mongolia and India are considering future
membership as well. According to the
Pakistani newspaper Dawn, Iran and
Turkmenistan have also expressed an
interest in the organisation's
activities. According to Russian Defence
Minister Sergei Ivanov, even "the USA
would like to join the Shanghai group".
Should India, Pakistan and Mongolia
enlarge the organisation, more than half
the population of Eurasia, from the
Baltic to the Pacific, will be arrayed in
a loose political, economic and military
alliance.

The losers will be the United States and
Turkey, whose tepid regional policies
have convinced the Central Asian
leadership that their immediate security
concerns are better met by Moscow and
Beijing. Zemin is due to visit Moscow in
July to sign a pact of friendship and
co-operation, further cementing the
Sino-Russian partnership. The
co-operation builds on the
demilitarisation of the 4,600-mile long
border begun under the 1997 treaty on
reducing military forces in border
regions. The heads of state of the member
nations will meet once a year, with
government officials meeting on a regular
basis to co-ordinate activities. For
Kyrgyzstan, the benefits were immediate;
on 18 June the Kyrgyz defence minister,
Esen Topoev, announced that China was
giving Kyrgyzstan 8 million yuan
(US$970,000) in military support.

United by Islamic dissident threat
What all members have in common is a
growing unease with the Islamic
fundamentalism seeping out of Afghanistan
and inflaming their discontented
populations. For the members, the common
vector of fundamentalism remains
Afghanistan. Kazakh President Nursultan
Nazarbayev remarked at the gathering:
"The cradle of terrorism, separatism and
extremism is the instability in
Afghanistan."

451 of 1668 words

Marmot1

03-21-2005, 04:12 PM

Russ.Dill

03-21-2005, 04:25 PM

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/ernis/osh10.jpg

Newest wave in advertising. Mass demostration product placement. Whenever interviewed, those sponsored are sure to thank their sponsors.

RomanS

03-21-2005, 04:42 PM

Marmot1

03-21-2005, 05:17 PM

NicNZ

03-21-2005, 05:26 PM

Hmm a quick evaluation of Kyrgyzstan's natural resources:
http://countrystudies.us/kyrgyzstan/20.htm

It looks like the Soviets got to much of the metals and oil resources quite successfully and, in recent times, other foreign companies have too. It doesnt look like Kyrystan has that much in the way of oil or other truly valuable resources that would motivate the US to take a particularly serious interest since the investment required would be high. China is, however, very interested, being situated so close.

I imagine the US might want to maintain an interest in the territory to secure the central asian pipeline but really the US already has that sort of interest in Kyrgyzstan so I wouldnt expect the US to be especially interested in the political upheavel, unless the risk develops that the US will be asked to leave. That seems unlikely.

RomanS

03-21-2005, 06:18 PM

barakelde

03-21-2005, 11:56 PM

Igor01.
The US Ambassador letter that you have posted above is fake. At least it has been denounced as fake by US Embassy in Kyrgyzstan. I too, believe it is fake.

I just wonder what kind of sensible response would a civilized Western government resort to when an unruly mob runs amok, storms and torches government buildings, beats up the police and declares that it will violently overthrough the existing government? This behaviour somehow doesn't strike me like an enlightened opposition movement but more like the "Beer Putch".
Granted, Akaev may have gotten too comfy and tryed to live and rule like a self-styled Asian Despot but that opposition behaves like a bunch of raving lunatics appealing to the uneducated and unemployed youth in the south of the country, inciting them to "rise against the corrupt regime" when their own agenda is probably much worse they they can't even agree amongst themselves and put out a single opposition leader who can unify and pacify these very dangerous forces.

Can’t agree more. :|

If some sort of compromise is not reached this insaninty will send all the wrong messages to the neighbouring republics where there's all kinds of homegrown evil "opposition" movements, particularly the Islamists in Tadjikistan and Uzbekistan. Those guys don't f*** around, if they get ideas the entire region could be destabilized. And this is just the political tip of the iceberg, if the national and religion cards are played then the **** really will hit the fan early 90's style when only the desperate efforts by the Russians were able to put out the civil wars in the region.

This touches upon one of the points that our current President is trying to sell to everybody. He wants people to believe that he and his followers are the only people who can ensure stability in the country. Do you believe that such a thoroughly corrupt regime as Akaev’s can effectively prevent spread of fundamentalism?

Apogee

03-22-2005, 12:24 AM

Me-262 - what kind of influence have you seen from Hizb ut-Tahrir in the recent uprisings? They are def not pro-democracy, but very anti-Kyrg government.

barakelde

03-22-2005, 12:49 AM

Me-262 - what kind of influence have you seen from Hizb ut-Tahrir in the recent uprisings? They are def not pro-democracy, but very anti-Kyrg government.

If there is, I am not aware of it.

It seems that these riots are viewed by the outsiders as some sort of religious extremism.
Religion has nothing to do with current riots. People are protesting against unfair elections, corruption and poverty.

Marmot1

03-22-2005, 05:08 AM

fdt

03-22-2005, 05:33 AM

@Marmot & Roman. Gentlemen pax. If You have any personal things to clarify, pls move this to PM or smth.

@ Me-262
What are the current developments? Izvestia newspaper writes that situation is getting harsher. Opposition wants to march to capital Bishkek. Govt thinks of "martial law". Police including special Police forces) stations in southern "rebel" part have been taken by opposition etc. Can You deny of confirm any of those reports?

barakelde

03-22-2005, 06:15 AM

@ Me-262
What are the current developments? Izvestia newspaper writes that situation is getting harsher. Opposition wants to march to capital Bishkek. Govt thinks of "martial law". Police including special Police forces) stations in southern "rebel" part have been taken by opposition etc. Can You deny of confirm any of those reports?

These reports are true. The opposition has taken southern half of the country under control. Police in the South has joined the opposition and now reports to "People's Governance Councils" (or whatever they call them now).

Martial Law.
Background info: The term of the outgoing Parliament is about to expire but has not expired yet. Some of the members of the outgoing Parliament are active members of the opposition. In other words, I believe that our current Parliament is anti-President.
Our constitution states that martial law (âîåííîå ïîëîæåíèå) can be introduced in the country only by the Parliament and only in case of aggression against the Kyrgyz Republic.
In other words, in order to introduce martial law the President needs to:
a) prove that Kyrgyzstan is under attack (highly doubtful)
b) persuade the Parliament (again, highly doubtful).
The President can also declare a state of emergency (÷ðåçâû÷àéíîå ïîëîæåíèå). Still, to do so he needs to obtain approval of the Parliament (again, highly doubtful).

Just found this info. WTF?
http://www.kyrgyzinfo.kg/eng/?art=1111482748

fdt

03-22-2005, 07:10 AM

Source BBC

Kyrgyz protests branded a coup
Discontent has been fuelled by unemployment in the south
Protests sweeping the south of Kyrgyzstan amount to a coup planned by criminals, President Askar Akayev's spokesman has been reported as saying.
"Criminal elements connected to the drug mafia... are struggling to gain power," spokesman Abdil Segizbayev told the Interfax news agency.

Source Itar Tass
http://itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=1854007&PageNum=0

Kyrgyz president to deliver address to the nation
22.03.2005, 11.32
BISHKEK, March 22 (Itar-Tass) - President of Kyrgyzstan Askar Akayev is expected on Tuesday to deliver an address to the nation over the recent developments in the country, sources from the presidential administration told Itar-Tass.
According to the sources, the president will make “a very important statement,” but it is not yet known what exactly he will say. Mass protests have continued in the country for the third day running with protesters demanding a review of the parliamentary election results and the resignation of the president.

Source KyrgyzInfo
http://www.kyrgyzinfo.kg/eng/?art=1111482748

Trainings of CSTO Armed Forces will be held in Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan from March 29th to April6th

KyrgyzInfo. 22.03.2005. 14:12
According to CSTO of the CIS press service, conduction of Joint Command Military Trainings of the OSCE Armed Forces are expected in the period from March 29th to April 6th 2005 “Border 2005”. Defense Ministries of Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Russia, and Tajikistan will observe over the trainings.
The first phase of the elections will be held from March 29th to 31st 2005 in Kyrgyzstan. The second phase are expected from April 4th to 6th in Tajikistan. Official opening of the trainings are scheduled for March 29th.
It is also planned that directly attended the training will be ministers of defense of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia and Tajikistan. Besides the mentioned countries, the CSTO of the CIS includes also Armenia and Byelorussia. The joint practical trainings were held in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan in August 2004.

Source CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/22/kyrgyzstan.ap/index.html

Kyrgyzstan protests 'part of coup'
Tuesday, March 22, 2005 Posted: 0953 GMT (1753 HKT)

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan (AP) -- Protests sweeping Kyrgyzstan in recent weeks are part of a "coup" designed by criminals, President Askar Akayev's spokesman was quoted as saying Tuesday, as the government signaled it has no intention of accepting vote-rigging charges that have fueled the massive rallies.

"The 'third force,' criminal elements connected to the drug mafia, are in complete control of the situation in Osh and Jalal-Abad, and are struggling to gain power," Abdil Segizbayev said, referring to two southern towns that have seen riots in the past few days.

He called the protests "a putsch and a coup" engineered by criminals, the Interfax news agency reported. "The opposition no longer controls the situation," he added.

fdt

03-22-2005, 07:25 AM

Has Police or/and Army begun to encircle the Manas airbase? If yes, this will mean that Martial Law will be announced today and there will be no talks.

Akaev has at least two votes to back him in new Parliament.

barakelde

03-22-2005, 07:26 AM

fdt
Treat anything coming from Mr. Segizbayev (and Kyrgyz government sources for that matter) with extreme skepticism. This guy is a complete clown and a proven liar.

BigBaribal

03-22-2005, 07:37 AM

As usual:

http://www.soros.kg/

http://eng.soros.kg/foundation/

http://eng.soros.kg/functions/

Rights and the freedom

Basic principle of the activity of fund in this direction - assistance to the formation of the institutes of civic community. Occurs grantovaja support to the initiatives of the non-government organizations and media. Also the within the framework this direction fund is intended to contribute to the creation of medium for the functioning of the institutes of civic community.

One should emphasize that the fund does not support whose- or position, but it contributes to the appearance of the atmosphere, in which they can freely be expressed and coexist within the framework law.

Within the next few years the fund “For soros-Kyrgyzstan” is intended to activate its activity in the regions of republic. Information interaction between the regions of the country will be one of the important moments during planning of programs and projects, also as interaction Of kyrgyzstana with other countries in The tsentralnoevrazijskom region (especially on questions of economic development and working migration).

WE ARE OPENED for THE COLLABORATION

The same cancer, everywhere :|

barakelde

03-22-2005, 07:38 AM

[quote="fdt"]Has Police or/and Army begun to encircle the Manas airbase? If yes, this will mean that Martial Law will be announced today and there will be no talks.

I have no information to prove/refute that. I also doubt that anything will happen to/around Manas airbase.

As for Martial Law, I doubt that they will declare Martial Law as this requires proof of agression. However, I do believe that they might declare state of emergency (not very much different from Martial Law, actually. The key difference being that state of emergency does not require nationwide mobiliziation): it appears that the new Parliament has already been sworn in and had its first session today.

My friend at JICA (Japan International Cooperation Agency) confirmed that: Japanese Embassy expects the Govt. to declare state of national emergency tomorrow. :|

And yes, you are right: it looks like the President withdrew his negotiation proposals.

fdt

03-22-2005, 07:38 AM

fdt
Treat anything coming from Mr. Segizbayev (and Kyrgyz government sources for that matter) with extreme skepticism. This guy is a complete clown and a proven liar.No matter who is he... he is cited by Western media... Remember one thing, Western public must get the "informational logical chain of events". So far the chain's ties are: protests, riots, Akaev's declaration of talks, Segizbayev's denial to enter talks with criminals... what will be next?

In my personal perception, the further course of situation management has been agreed amongst all (external and some internal) parties yesterday.

fdt

03-22-2005, 07:41 AM

I have no information to prove/refute that. I also doubt that anything will happen to/around Manas airbase.
The Manas base encirclement will be there to protect US from embarassing requests for asylum... You know what it means...

BigBaribal

03-22-2005, 07:43 AM

http://www.soros.org.mn/about/national_foundations.html

The geographical placement of Soros's foundations is very interesting. Especially for Russia!

fdt

03-22-2005, 07:47 AM

http://www.soros.org.mn/about/national_foundations.html

The geographical placement of Soros's foundations is very interesting. Especially for Russia!Yeah. Of course You mean those in: Albania, BiH, Czech Republic, Croatia, Guatemala, Haiti, Montenegro, Serbia, South Africa and West Africa... ;) .

fdt

03-22-2005, 08:10 AM

barakelde

03-22-2005, 08:27 AM

After *******

BISHKEK (*******) - Kyrgyz President Askar Akayev said on Tuesday he would not resort to massive use of force against the opposition, whose supporters have taken control of two southern towns and demanded he step down.
Akayev, addressing members of a newly-elected parliament, said that marginal opposition groups were deliberately stoking tensions in the country.
"All this is aimed at provoking authorities to massively use force. In that respect, I want to firmly state that I, as president, will never resort to such steps."

http://www.*******.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=YGC2PL1NYDIXACRBAELCFEY?type=worldNews&storyID=7970580

Jesus... Akayev started this whole mess and now is trying to put all the blame on opposition. How does he expect people to react when they see the President's daughter and son "elected" to the Parliament? What does he expect them to do if there is a strong rumor that the President's wife will be running for Presidency in October? What does he expect them to do if most of the profitable businesses are either owned or controlled by his son and his son-in-law? :bash:

barakelde

03-22-2005, 08:40 AM

You might also read about a pro-President rally that took place today in Bishkek.
Most of the participants of this rally were students (and faculty). The reason why they came to the rally is not because they are against opposition; they were there because they were required to (they were dismissed from classes and were told by their deans to attend the rally). There is one guy at a local forum who claims to have been expelled for refusal to attend the rally.
I cannot confirm this information but I tend to believe him as this is very much consistent with local practice. :roll:

fdt

03-22-2005, 08:50 AM

Any news of Col. Raimberdiyev?

http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2369241

Indeed, Subanbekov's January interview with the Kyrgyz newspaper Delo No revealed that a central command post had been established to ensure public security during the forthcoming elections, placed under the control of First Deputy, Colonel Raimberdiyev. Workshops are currently underway in Bishkek that will be attended by representatives of the Prosecutor-General's Office, the National Security Service, and the Supreme Court, plus one representative of the Central Electoral Commission.

Here's a paper on OSCE assistance to Kyrgystani Police.

http://www.osce.org/documents/sg/2004/07/3744_en.pdf

fdt

03-22-2005, 09:14 AM

Source: http://www.kabar.kg/eng/calendar/05/Mar/19/1.htm

http://www.kabar.kg/english/05/Mar/19/image010.jpg

Secret report of the U.S. Ambassador to Kyrgyz Republic Stephen M.Young

Bishkek, Kirghiz Republic
December 30, 2004

Pre-election situation report

Analysis of the social and political situation in Kyrgyzstan testifies the growing instability on the threshold of parliamentary elections in the country. Against the background of economic crisis, accompanied with national impoverishment, corruption in state bodies and outflow of labor force abroad, some other external factors have a strong impact upon the political forces arrangement, i.e. influence (besides our geopolitical interests) of Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and to a lesser extent of the EU countries and radical Islamic ideas proliferated from Iran.
The results of public opinion polls in Kyrgyzstan, conducted by the US Embassy in cooperation with USAID, NDI, IRI, other international organizations including Freedom House, Internews Network, Soros Foundations and the Eurasia Foundation in view of the above-mentioned countries influence on the politically active population, allow us to draw a conclusion that at present none of the states has prevailing influence. The only exception is Russia, which counts considerably in Kyrgyzstan, as it has retained multiform connections with the republic. Akaev, being a protegee of Russia, is guided by Moscow. However, we have not got the facts of Russian financing any candidates or parties.
As regards China, the prospect of Central Asia development puts Beijing into dependence on the Kyrghyz hydro-electric resources and electric power potential. Thus Kyrgyzstan foreign policy is aimed at trade and economic expansion that coincides with Chinese further plans, in particular those concerning electric power and water distribution. This reason should be taken into consideration when shaping a policy towards Beijing and its presence in the region.
Our military presence in Kyrgyzstan “is annoying” Beijing, and the temporary status of the air force base at Manas airport in Bishkek gives grounds to China to hope for would- be withdrawal of the US troops from Kyrgyzstan. In this regard, we are sure to expect counteracting steps of the Chinese government against our military expansion in the region. At present China renders informal support to the politicians disposed to further development of relations with Beijing and restriction of our military contingent in Kyrgyzstan. In addition, Akaev’s assistance in the struggle against Uigur separatism and religious extremism is obviously insufficient.
In view of the acts of terrorism committed against the US offices last summer in Uzbekistan and the Department of State and our secret services information on further plans of terrorists against the US Embassy in Kyrgyzstan, we are facing the real menace constituted by political acti’c4ties of the: religious extremist party Hizbut Tahrir and its radical Islamic ideas, which exert negative influence upon the formation of pre-election situation in the state.

According to the firsthand information, the radicalism has been actively promoted by Iran, Uzbekistan and Saudi Arabia. The activities of Islamists are set to construct mosques, establish religious educational institutions, arrange pilgrimage, and organize
training of Kyrgyz religious leaders in Muslim countries. At present there are about 30 Muslim organizations and societies operating in Kyrgyzstan. Among them the greatest activity is shown by the office of the international charitable organization Al- Vakf al Isiami. Its leader Muntasir Abu Hasan has friendly relations with Akaev and Sabirov, Kyrgyz MPs, clerical leaders . A.Narmatov, M.Magomedov, O.Chotonov. We have elicited facts about contacts of the party leadership with representatives of the Chechen Diaspora. According to our analysts, Sabirov and Tursunbay Bakir uulu, leader of Erkin Kyrgyzstan, will take advantage of Muslim organizations support at the forthcoming elections. They are keeping in touch with hard liners from HizbutTtahrir to legitimate the party in Kyrgyzstan. On trips to southern areas of Kyrgyzstan some of the embassy staff have found out information on dissemination of leaflets issued by Hizbut Tahrir, which propagandize religious extremism and sharia laws.
Taking into account the interests, of our presence in the region and development of democratic society in Kyrgyzstan, our primary goal — according to the earlier approved plans — is to increase pressure upon Akaev to make him resign ahead of schedule after the parliamentary elections Realizing the plan is of key importance as, we think, the present opposition is not strong enough to challenge the present authorities, though Akaev has claimed he is not going to prolong his terms of office.
We know, Akaev’s adherents suspect the opposition to prepare the same scenario of elections like that one in Georgia and Ukraine. That was indirectly asserted by Akaev at December meeting of the Council of. Defense of the KR. In case of prolongation of presidential powers Akaev is mast likely to take advantage of the assistance rendered by the Russian-speaking part of the population and other ethnic minorities, as well as of several thousand residents who are on earnings in Russia now. In this connection, for better planning of pre-election tactics we ought to remember that Russia remains the basic employer in Kyrgyzstan. Both the pro-Russian public opinion and popularity of the Russian president are rather strong in some northern regions of the country.
According to the materials we sent to the Department of State earlier, at present two formations are shaped on the political arena of Kyrgyzstan. They will struggle for posts in the parliament and then nominate candidates for the presidency. First of all, it is the pre-election block For Powers of People. In July 2004 it united six opposition parties, which nominated K.Bakiev, ex-prime minister and MP, as their single candidate for the presidential post. I think he is the most acceptable candidate in the aspect of fruitful development of relations between the USA and Kyrgyzstan. I met Bakiev on repeated occasions. Bakiev expressed his consent to take advantage of the support after his block’s winning in parliamentary elections. As he said, after ambiguous American involvement in elections in Georgia and Ukraine unconcealed American support provided to a candidate might have a negative effect on his political reputation. Furthermore, he was against falling off in relations with Russia by criticizing on behalf of his party Russian intervening in the Ukrainian elections.
Among the other significant political leaders we name M.Ashirkulov, the former secretary of Security Council, and F.Kulov, who is currently imprisoned. They represent a newly founded party— the Civic Union For Fair Elections.

We believe Ashirkulov’s growing popularity has been arisen from recent Scandals and his demonstrative walkout from the president’s team. In our opinion, it was a specially made up action to promote the president’s friend to head up a “puppet” opposition. In this connection, we advise continuing contacts with another prominent representative of the opposition — F.Kulov, whose imprisonment will end in the middle of 2005. Enjoying deserved popularity and being a victim of regime, he will have sufficient potential to struggle for the presidency.
F.Kulov shares and adheres to American concepts of freedom and democracy and can be viewed as a dubbing candidate for the presidency in case our main candidate Bakiev is defeated.
We have mostly succeeded in developing contacts with another leader of the opposition — R.Otunbaeva, ex-Minister for Foreign Affairs. Through the funds allocated to her we managed to lobby setting up and promoting certain NGOs as well as organizing a unified system of mass media for better coverage over the country to spread her statement about non-interference of Russia in internal affairs of Kyrgyzstan.
With a view to providing favorable conditions and helping democratic opposition leaders come to power, our primary goal for the pre-elections period is to arouse mistrust to the authorities in force and Akaev’s incapacitated corruption regime, his pro-Russian orientation and illegal use of “an administrative resource” to rig elections. In this regard, the embassy’s Democratic commission, Soros Foundations, Eurasia Foundation in Bishkek in cooperation with USAID have been organizing politically active groups of voters in order to inspire riots against pro-president candidates.

We have set up and opened financing for an independent printing office — the Media Support center — and AKIpress news agency to interpret impartially the course of the elections and minimize state mass media propaganda impact. We also render financial support to promising non-governmental tele- and radio companies.

According to public polls results, we can come to conclusion that only a minor part of the population— former USSR citizens — is satisfied with close cooperation with Russia. Young people are most likely oriented to the West. Therefore we consider it extremely important to popularize American way of life among them to diminish Russian influence. At least 45 national higher schools have their local Students in Action organizations, which we are planning to use properly during parliamentary and presidential elections. In our opinion, those additional funds ($5 mm) transferred by the Department of State to hold seminars in all leading Universities of Kyrgyzstan and organize training in western countries turned out insufficient.
Conclusion.
In the view of the pit-election situation and effort to provide fair and democratic elections in the KR and retain our positions in mass media and contacts with the opposition leaders, I advise focusing on discrediting the present political regime, thus making Akaev and his followers responsible for the economic crisis. We should also take steps to spread information on probable restriction of political freedoms during the election campaign.
It is worthwhile compromising Akaev personally by disseminating data in the opposition mass media on his wife’s involvement in financial frauds and bribery at designation of
officials. We also recommend spreading rumors about her probable plans to run for the presidency, etc. All these measures will help us form an image of an absolutely incapacitated president.
It is essential to increase the amount of financial support up to $30 mm to promising opposition parties at the preliminary stage of the parliamentary and presidential elections and allocate additional funds to NGOs including the National Democratic Institute, the International Republican Institute, Freedom house, Internews Network and Eurasia Foundation, since they have reached significant results within the framework of informing the population on preparation for the election and on the process of political forces consolidation.
To minimize Russian influence on the course of elections we ought to urge opposition parties to make appeals to the Russian government concerning non-interference in internal affairs of the KR.
Taking into account arrangements of the Department of. State Plan for the period of 2005-2006 to intensify our influence in Central Asia, particularly in Kyrgyzstan, we view the country as the base to advance with the process of democratization in Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and limit Chinese and Russian capabilities in the area Setting up democratic legitimate opposition in the parliament of Kyrgyzstan is extremely important. To reach the target we should attract groups of independent observers from western humanitarian: organizations, OSCE, and people from Kyrgyz offices of the UN Program of Development. That is necessary: to get control of the election process and eliminate any possible financing of the pro - presidential majority in the parliament.

Stephen M.Young
The U.S. Ambassador to Kyrgyz Republic

http://bishkek.usembassy.gov/fraudulent_report_eng.htm

Fraudulent Embassy Report on Internet

A document attempting to imitate a report of the Embassy of the United States of America in Bishkek is being disseminated via the internet. Made to appear on U.S. Embassy letterhead and dated December 30, 2004, the document slanderously misrepresents U.S. policy toward Kyrgyzstan and its election process. It forges the signature of Ambassador Young. This report is a crude fabrication by an individual or individuals who have no association with the United States Government. The document in no way represents the views of the U.S. Embassy in Bishkek and is a clear attempt to damage U.S.–Kyrgyz relations.

barakelde

03-22-2005, 09:24 AM

This fake has was posted on Friday and on Sunday the US Embassy issued this denial.

Despite this official denial, the fake report was circulated today (Tuesday) at the pro-government rally in Bishkek (with no mention of the denial, of course). Now I think I have a pretty good idea of where the fake came from. ;)

khukuri

03-22-2005, 12:00 PM

Me--

thx for your info I appreciate it.

couple of questions

Whats the militarys stand on this, is it even unified on the matter.

If a "orange revolution" attempt will be maid, do you think it will be bloody?

The muslims in the country. Are they just a small taliban supporting pack or are they a big part of the country, and just a few are extremists?

What cind of people support the govrement and what cind of people support the opposition. Is it different economical classes, different ethnics, religioun, is it private sector against byrocracy, etc etc?

regards

M4ko

03-22-2005, 12:31 PM

RomanS

03-22-2005, 01:57 PM

M4ko

03-22-2005, 03:08 PM

and again I must ask
Why does a Polish imigrant gives a **** about Kirgizstan?

Well good question asked by Russian emigrant.... unfortunatelly you are wrong about one thing... I am not imigrant... I live in my own country contrary to you.

my passport is Russian dumbass

And my is Polish...+ I live in Poland so you are totaly wrong with your statement about me beeing imigrant RoomanRussianAss. BTW It would be funny to see you pledging loyality to USA when you get your US passport... I wonder how you menage to be loyal to two countries at the same time, Mr. Imigrant....

nobody is forcing anyone here to pledge idiot!

There is only one idiot on this forum and it's not me.... I will give you a hint.... His name starts with Rom.......

my feelings are hurt
oh no...

how brutal

uncalled for

seriously though Marmot what makes you think he will be loyal to US after pledging for US passport?

RomanS

03-22-2005, 03:21 PM

Marmot1

03-22-2005, 03:44 PM

barakelde

03-23-2005, 01:12 AM

Some photos from Osh and Jalal-Abad.
http://diesel.elcat.kg/uploads/post-76-1111557154.jpg

http://diesel.elcat.kg/uploads/post-76-1111557443.jpg

http://diesel.elcat.kg/uploads/post-76-1111557500.jpg

http://diesel.elcat.kg/uploads/post-76-1111557682.jpg

http://diesel.elcat.kg/uploads/post-76-1111557868.jpg

http://diesel.elcat.kg/uploads/post-76-1111557933.jpg

http://diesel.elcat.kg/uploads/post-76-1111569261.jpg

barakelde

03-23-2005, 01:44 AM

Lenin

Whats the militarys stand on this, is it even unified on the matter.
I do not have any information on military's position. What I do know is that some police units have joined the opposition.
Edit: seems that some units of our army have joined the opposition.

If a "orange revolution" attempt will be maid, do you think it will be bloody?
Unconfirmed reports from the opposition are that 4 to 10 people have been killed. Judging by the recent developments (President's address to the nation, Parliament's proposal to declare state of national emergency) I do not think (but I do hope) that this whole mess will end peacufully.

The muslims in the country. Are they just a small taliban supporting pack or are they a big part of the country, and just a few are extremists?
Most of the population of Kyrgyzstan are muslim. AFAIK, Kyrgyz do not support Taliban and do not belong to religious extremists. However, there is significant Uzbek minority in the south (more on that below).

What cind of people support the govrement and what cind of people support the opposition. Is it different economical classes, different ethnics, religioun, is it private sector against byrocracy, etc etc?
It is complicated :) There are several dimensions to this problem (clans, north-south divide, etc.). For more insight you can read this article:
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav060502.shtml

Political unrest continues to buffet Kyrgyzstan, as protestors on June 5 again blocked the main Bishkek-Osh highway. Some local analysts say the recent tension is rooted in rivalries between the country’s clans, in reality vast patronage networks that are related to ethnic and geographic factors. Various clans, especially those with their power bases in southern Kyrgyzstan, have grown increasingly discontent with the reluctance of President Askar Akayev’s clan to share the perquisites of power.

Since the start of 2002, the Akayev’s administration has faced mounting criticism over its policies. Akayev opponents have seized on popular opposition to the government’s plan to transfer territory to China to attempt to weaken the president’s political position. [For additional information see the EurasiaNet culture archive].

Clan affiliation is playing an important role in the ongoing political struggles. Kyrgyz identity in public and private life is traditionally determined by ties with one of three clan groupings – known as "wings." They are the right, or Ong; the left, or Sol; and the Ichkilik, which is neither.

The left wing now includes seven clans in the north and west. Each of the seven has a dominant characteristic, and all have fought each other for influence. The Buguu clan provided the first administrators of the Kyrgyz Republic during the early Soviet era. Following Stalin’s purges in the 1930s, the Buguu’s influence waned and the another northern clan, the Sarybagysh, came to dominate.

Since the Stalin era, the Sarybagysh clan has provided most Kyrgyz leaders, including Akayev. The clan’s support for Akayev was a critical factor in his ability to outmaneuver defeated southerner Absamat Masaliev for the leadership of the Kyrgyz Communist Party in 1990.

The right wing contains only one clan, the Adygine, which has its roots in southern Kyrgyzstan. The Ichkilik, which also has strong links to southern Kyrgyzstan, is actually a group of many clans, some of which are not of Kyrgyz origin, but all of which claim Kyrgyz identity.

Over the past few years, the Sarybagysh clan has increasingly extended its control over key economic and political spheres, leaving other clans with dwindling opportunities. Key government positions, especially in the ministries of finance, internal affairs and state security, have been filled by members of Akayev’s clan. For example, Temirbek Akmataliev, former minister of finance and internal affairs, comes from Akayev’s village and clan.

Also closely connected to the Sarybagysh clan are Osmanakun Ibraimov, secretary of state, and Amanbek Karypkulov, chief of presidential staff. Other influential government members come from the western Tallas region, the birthplace of Akayev’s wife.

Informal power-sharing arrangements among clans helped maintain stability in Kyrgyzstan during the early years of independence. Local observers say the rising political unrest in 2002, including March rioting that left at least five people dead, is closely connected to the northern clan’s reluctance and/or inability to address the complaints of southern groups.

Prominent Kyrgyz writer and diplomat Chingiz Aitmatov recently called attention to the North-South question, calling on partisans from both areas to set aside their sectional rivalries and work together on Kyrgyzstan’s economic and political development. Aitmatov’s appeal was largely dismissed in southern Kyrgyzstan. One commentator, Alexei Sukhov, wrote May 3 in the weekly Res Publica newspaper that Aitmatov was out of touch and did not appreciate the depth of southern resentment over Akayev’s policies.

Sukhov asserted that Akayev’s policy of appointing political proteges and then rapidly rotating them in the key post of governor of Osh Oblast has caused deep resentment in southern Kyrgyzstan. Many southerners are particularly angry that all of the Osh region’s five governors over the past decade have hailed from the northern part of the country. Observers, including Sukhov, also complain that the frequent turnover has exacerbated economic difficulties in the South.

Another important factor in southern Kyrgyzstan is connected with the region’s demography. The area is home to a large ethnic Uzbek minority. Many Uzbeks in Kyrgyzstan feel that the Akayev government discriminates against them. This perception is pushing some prominent leaders of the ethnic Uzbek community to channel popular frustration through unsanctioned religious groups, especially the Hizb-ut-Tahrir.

One indication that a power struggle between northern and southern clans is intensifying is the fact that many prominent opposition leaders are aligned with southern clans, namely of the Ichkilik group. Prominent public figures and MPs Azimbek Beknazarov, Adahan Madumarov, Omurbek Tekebaev, Dooronbek Sadyrbaev, Masaliev, Bekturn Asanov and Alisher Abdimomjunov all have ties with clans based either in Osh, Jalalabad or Batken regions in south. Analysts say they see growing cohesion and cooperation among southerners in their common aim of ending the Sarybagysh clan’s stranglehold on power.

Akayev in recent weeks has reshuffled his cabinet and has made conciliatory statements about a desire to share power with parliament and has met with independent newspaper editors . [For additional information see EurasiaNet]. Despite Akayev’s actions, some experts expect unrest to continue. Akayev’s moves, in particular the cabinet reshuffle, largely did not address the clan imbalance of power, they say.

Editor’s Note: Alisher Khamidov is currently a Muskie Fellow graduate student at the Joan B. Kroc Institute of Peace Studies at Notre Dame University.

barakelde

03-23-2005, 03:23 AM

When People Power Boils Over

By DAVID LEWIS
March 23, 2005

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan -- First Georgia, then Ukraine, now Kyrgyzstan? Like its former Soviet sisters, popular anger at fraudulent elections has provoked mass unrest in this remote Central Asian republic. But the danger is that public outrage may spiral out of control, leading not to a democratic revolution, but to chaos and possibly violent conflict. Rather than "rose" or "orange," this revolution risks being simply bloody.

The unrest in southern Kyrgyzstan follows recent parliamentary elections, full of the usual malpractice that accompanies all polls in the authoritarian states of the region. Some candidates were disqualified on dubious grounds; others suffered from clever trickery with voter lists. And many couldn't compete when government-picked candidates handed out cash bribes to voters. Popular anger at the government has now spilled onto the streets.

At first it was peaceful. A man on horseback rode around the ancient streets of Osh, the largest city in the south of the country, with a picture of President Askar Akayev on his back and the slogan "I'm for Akayev's resignation." But gradually things started slipping out of control. In another southern city, Jalalabad, protesters seized the regional administration building and occupied it for almost two weeks. The police seemed powerless to act. Similar seizures of government buildings in other towns followed, including Osh.

The government responded with an ill-planned police raid. Initially, security forces managed to get the protesters out of government buildings, but in response tens of thousands of protesters stormed the police station in Jalalabad, armed with petrol bombs, and burned it down. Security forces then went into rapid retreat. Protesters in Osh also took back control of government buildings, and they seized the airports in both Osh and Jalalabad.

Government officials and police disappeared. In much of the south of the country, there was effectively no government. Opposition protesters began to elect their own "peoples' councils," and Roza Otunbaeva, an opposition figure who formerly served as the country's ambassador to the United States and Britain, declared, "The people's power has been established." But at times it seemed that little more than a motley collection of protesters was in charge. Some of the younger ones were drunk and increasingly aggressive.

They have only one demand: the immediate resignation of President Akayev.

* * *
Mr. Akayev was once lauded by the West as a liberal reformer in an otherwise repressive neighborhood. He was feted by the international community, even as his rule at home became increasingly authoritarian. His main political opponent, Felix Kulov, is still in prison. The deaths of six peaceful demonstrators in police shootings in 2002 marked a further low point and sparked mass protests in the country's more volatile southern regions.

Massive corruption linked to his family became an irritant not just to the opposition, but also to many ordinary businessmen who were finding it harder and harder to break the family's control of the economy. Although the economy had picked up in recent years, for much of the population, particularly in the poorer southern regions, life is a constant struggle for survival. Unemployed young men form the backbone of the protesters.

Mr. Akayev is supposed to leave office this October, according to the constitution. But he seems to be looking for ways to somehow keep the family's grasp on power, both political and economic. The first step was to pack as many friends and relatives as possible into the parliament at elections in February. His son, Aidar, and daughter, Bermet, were both elected to the new body.

This increasing domination of business and politics by one family is a major part of the reason for this outbreak of popular anger. Although the Kyrgyz opposition is claiming some credit for the protests, in some cases the revolt seems to have been largely spontaneous. Although it is clear that the government is not in control in the south, most opposition leaders also seem bemused by this upsurge of revolt and not sure how to react.

The opposition has long been divided and still does not have a clear, unifying leader. Kurmanbek Bakiev, a former premier, has some support, but other regional leaders also have pretensions to the presidency. And regional divides make northerners wary of the ambitions of the south's political elite. In short, any political transition seems likely to be messy.

Without a strong opposition leadership, there is a dangerous possibility that the situation will spiral out of control. There are already concerns that criminal groups are getting involved in the protest movement. Southern Kyrgyzstan is a prime transit route for heroin from Afghanistan, and underground Islamist groups have long been active in the region.

The situation in Osh, where there is a history of interethnic tension between Kyrgyz and Uzbeks, could descend into violence unless quick steps are taken. If the government overreacts by using military force, it risks provoking armed opposition that could develop into serious civil conflict. If the country's leadership refuses to compromise, existing historical and cultural divides between the north and south could become the fault line of an armed conflict.

Other regional powers, particularly neighboring Uzbekistan, will be looking on with concern that popular unrest in Kyrgyzstan might encourage their own oppositions. The region's dictators will be putting pressure on Bishkek to crack down hard on the protests. Such pressure needs to be resisted.

In the past, the international community has been too tolerant of the government's creeping authoritarianism. Indeed, in early March, the Paris Club of international creditor states was happy to write off part of Kyrgyzstan's foreign debt, something immediately seized on by President Akayev as a sign of continued international support.

Now, the international community needs to get involved to ensure that the situation does not descend into chaos. But this needs to be done carefully. Too unilateral a political intervention -- by the U.S., for example -- will merely spark more geopolitical rivalry in the region. Russia has some influence with Mr. Akayev, but Moscow is keen not to see a repeat of its humiliation in Ukraine. So getting Russia on board for any negotiations will be important but extremely difficult given Moscow's sensitivity to any political change in its backyard.

* * *
The government in Bishkek needs to be persuaded that any military response will only make the situation worse, and could provoke more violent unrest. Instead, a political process that includes President Akayev's leaving office peacefully needs to be instigated. International organizations such as the OSCE should be involved in negotiating a peaceful political transition, including free and fair presidential elections and the establishment an all-inclusive political process that would ensure political calm in the interim.

Kyrgyzstan may be a remote country of which most in the West know little, but events there could have very dangerous long-term consequences for the whole troubled region. A peaceful transition of leadership would, however, be a first for Central Asia, so a little investment by the international community into mediating Kyrgyzstan's crisis could deliver long-term, precedent-setting benefits.

Lokos

03-23-2005, 11:59 AM

Is the opposition taking a stance against Russian influence, or is it for continued close relations with Russia but under a democratic regime?

I hope it's the latter.

Lokos

khukuri

03-23-2005, 12:41 PM

Very interest articles. Thanks for the reply I really aprreciate it.
One more question thou, do you have any idea of how big the clans are? Are they like almost equal? Is the northern clans very very big? Are they a majority. I know its a strange and difficult question but aproximatley?

M4ko

03-23-2005, 12:54 PM

M4ko
I'm not sure if you understand this part

I love US, I respect US, my friends here are mostly Americans.
I also love Russia and everything to do with it. Bad or good. Like any other patriot would. Even if she's not right, its my motherland.

I wish I could be a citizen of both countries.

Well it is understandable to love both countries. But you know how most Russians feel about U.S. And when something big happens I dont think Russia will be taking US' side. What will you do then?

But why cant you be a citizen of both countries? Im about to apply for US citizenship even though i dont see a big need for it yet. US will not make you deny your Russian citizenship and Russians dont have to know your a citizen, and even if they find out I dont think it will be a big deal, I migth be mistaking but i didnt have problems with getting my new Russian passport at Russian embassy in NY, and when i went to Russia I had no one ask me if im a US citizen or not.

M4ko

03-23-2005, 12:56 PM

Is the opposition taking a stance against Russian influence, or is it for continued close relations with Russia but under a democratic regime?

I hope it's the latter.

Lokos

I dont think opposition even cares about whos been influencing their country letely they just want Akayev out for now, but im sure there are people with money waiting at the doorsteps hoping to increase their influence in the middle of this commotion.

shadower

03-23-2005, 01:45 PM

@ Me-262
I hope the best for you and your country. But I'm sorry to say that I don't think Putin will make a sensible decision. More likely he'll flex his muscles and support a "firm"(=violent) respons to protest.

I just wonder what kind of sensible response would a civilized Western government resort to when an unruly mob runs amok, storms and torches government buildings, beats up the police and declares that it will violently overthrough the existing government? This behaviour somehow doesn't strike me like an enlightened opposition movement but more like the "Beer Putch".

Granted, Akaev may have gotten too comfy and tryed to live and rule like a self-styled Asian Despot but that opposition behaves like a bunch of raving lunatics appealing to the uneducated and unemployed youth in the south of the country, inciting them to "rise against the corrupt regime" when their own agenda is probably much worse they they can't even agree amongst themselves and put out a single opposition leader who can unify and pacify these very dangerous forces.
Beat them up as they do here in Canada and US if they go off the route police gave them previously.

shadower

03-23-2005, 01:55 PM

edit

khukuri

03-23-2005, 03:24 PM

@ Me-262
I hope the best for you and your country. But I'm sorry to say that I don't think Putin will make a sensible decision. More likely he'll flex his muscles and support a "firm"(=violent) respons to protest.

I just wonder what kind of sensible response would a civilized Western government resort to when an unruly mob runs amok, storms and torches government buildings, beats up the police and declares that it will violently overthrough the existing government? This behaviour somehow doesn't strike me like an enlightened opposition movement but more like the "Beer Putch".

Granted, Akaev may have gotten too comfy and tryed to live and rule like a self-styled Asian Despot but that opposition behaves like a bunch of raving lunatics appealing to the uneducated and unemployed youth in the south of the country, inciting them to "rise against the corrupt regime" when their own agenda is probably much worse they they can't even agree amongst themselves and put out a single opposition leader who can unify and pacify these very dangerous forces.
Beat them up as they do here in Canada and US if they go off the route police gave them previously.

The difference is that in countries in that area generally dont even get a "route". Thats maybe why theyre rioting violently. You see, people generally use the same measures against a state that is used by the state against them.
When you put the democratic tools out of hand and jepordize them like akayev does dont expect the public to resort to them.

fdt

03-23-2005, 04:08 PM

Boys. You have no slightest idea, what's going on there... Any analogies to Your cosy Canadas or Americas are pointless... rofl

Here You have the example. Demonstration. Suddenly to the square comes a bunch of guys who immediately start beating the demonstration's leaders. Then comes police and arrests those who were .... beaten. The attackers gone away undisturbed by police...

"Healthy part of society", unspoiled by rebelious ideas. Guys are quite easily recognisable...

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/birge/1.jpg

"Angry mob"

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/birge/2.jpg

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/birge/3.jpg

Wiseman

03-23-2005, 08:00 PM

Roma,

M4ko is right, you can be a citizen of both nations. I'm a citizen of Russia and of the US at the same time. The US gov't does not force you to renounce your Russian citizenship, it just considers it invalid ( meaning you're not a Russian citizen in their eyes once you get your US citizenship ). However, Russia will still consider you their citizen since you never officially filled out any forms for renoucning it and paying the fee.

barakelde

03-24-2005, 12:39 AM

Sorry for not responding to your questions, guys. I am GMT +5, so providing prompt answers is a bit of a challenge ;).

Lokos

Is the opposition taking a stance against Russian influence, or is it for continued close relations with Russia but under a democratic regime?

I hope it's the latter.

The opposition does not have a unified political platform. The only thing that unites the opposition is a strong dislike of our current President. AFAIK, not a single opposition leader has used an anti-Russian card (or anti-any ethnic group, for that matter). Things might change, of course, if Russians decide to interfere. Many people here would view this as a sign of support to our current regime.

OTOH, our government is trying to play an anti-American card (see fake US Ambassador letter above). Also, I saw our President speak yesterday on National TV where he was saying utter BS: he claimed that the opposition is a bunch of extreme nationalists who are sponsored by Islamic fundamentalists and drug traffickers. The government also seems to be cooperating with criminal elements – there are strong (and partially confirmed) rumors that government-sponsored gangs posing as opposition are starting all sorts of disturbances (stopping and burning down cars, breaking shop windows, etc.).

One more question thou, do you have any idea of how big the clans are? Are they like almost equal? Is the northern clans very very big? Are they a majority. I know its a strange and difficult question but aproximatley?

Honestly I do not know. Our clan division is pretty much impossible to comprehend even for insiders :lol: However, if you wish, you can read this 53-page paper on the topic p-) http://www.demstar.dk/papers/UPKyrgyzstan.pdf

Fdt
Thanks for the pictures :) I’ve been to this demonstration and I can tell you for sure that these white-hat dudes are from some sort of law-enforcement agency (customs, police, etc.) These dudes were trying to provoke the actual opposition by cursing, hitting them, spitting on them, etc. The angry mob of white-hats was later shown on our TV as if it was actual opposition demonstration.

The opposition has arrived to the capital and is planning to take over government buildings either today or tomorrow. Major clashes are expected. Police is authorized to use firearms to stop the takeover.

fdt

03-24-2005, 03:39 AM

@ Me-262
What's the situation development today. It is reported that in Bishkek there are some major demonstrations and meetings. The new Interior Minister (who yesterday was threatening to use force against demonstrators) has announced that he will not use Police to break the meeting in Bishkek. Road to Manas is reported to be closed by demonstrators who want to prevent Akaev to flee. Demonstrators are gathering around the Govt building (White House) and State run TV journalists have raised protest against censorship. Nobody knows where is Akaev.

BTW: Russian media report that all banks in southern ("rebelious") part of Kyrgystan have been robbed. Local Kyrgyz opposition leaders strongly deny those infos.

http://www.fergana.ru/comments.php?mode=snews&view=comm&cid=164&comm_id=490&id=888

What's happening to www.gazeta.kg site? It's not responding. Has it been shut off or smth?

Can You confirm or deny those reports?

fdt

03-24-2005, 07:55 AM

Latest news:

Govt Palace has been taken. Offices of president Akaev have been taken. President Akaev is now talking with representatives of OSCE in... undisclosed location. In Russian airbase at Kant, a spec. plane has been prepared to evacuate Akaev.

Eat a bullet

03-24-2005, 07:56 AM

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan (AP) -- Protesters stormed the presidential compound in Kyrgyzstan on Thursday, seizing control of the symbol of state power after clashing with riot police who had surrounded it during a large opposition rally. The defense minister was led out of the building by demonstrators.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KYRGYZSTAN_PROTESTS?SITE=NCMAR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

fdt

03-24-2005, 08:52 AM

At 4th of April A.Lukashenka comes to Moscow for a "working visit". It was announced today, after a telephone talk of Putin and Lukashenka.

http://www.dni.ru/news/world/2005/3/24/59857.html

Лукашенко едет к Путину
16:30 / 24.3
4 апреля в Россию с рабочим визитом приедет президент Белоруссии Александр Лукашенко. Договоренность об этом была достигнута в четверг в ходе телефонного разговора Владимира Путина с Лукашенко.
Как сообщает "Интерфакс", в ходе беседы руководители двух государств обменялись мнениями по актуальным вопросам развития российско-белорусских отношений. Президенты также обменялись мнениями о международной ситуации. Разговор состоялся по инициативе российской стороны.
ИА "Росбалт" со ссылкой на белорусское государственное информагентство "БелТА" передает, что встреча президентов состоится в Сочи.
Предполагается, что на встрече будет обсужден широкий круг вопросов белорусско-российских отношений, в том числе в рамках Союзного государства.

@ Me-262

http://www.dni.ru/news/polit/2005/3/24/59856.html

Pls verify those "worries" on the present situation in Bishkek. Esp this part:

Куда деваться несчастным жителям Бишкека, на улицах которого безумствует разгоряченная призраком победы толпа? Почему "призраком"? – потому что победителя нет. Потому что теперь только чудо может спасти в Киргизии пусть не лучшую, но все-таки – государственность. Бедность при относительном порядке – все же полбеды. Бедность и хаос – это война. Война всех против всех. Подозрительные взгляды на прохожих. Комендантский час (если есть, кому его установить). Черный рынок. Нож в бок за буханку хлеба. Ночные бдения с охотничьим ружьем у дверей хрущевской квартирки.

[......]

Если говорить о том, кто виноват, то, увы – ответ есть. Виноват президент Киргизии. Виноват потому, что лично Аскар Акаев – вероятно хороший, мягкий и интеллигентный человек, позволил себе насколько мог, оставаться таким же в политике. Оказалось – пределы допустимого очень узкие. Виноват потому, что не хотел проливать кровь, потому, что надеялся на то, что удастся решить переговорами то, что другие стали решать при помощи традиционных методов толпы. Но это урок для всех. Власть не может быть мягкотелой там, где под угрозой оказывается государственность, когда могут рухнуть закон (как бы он ни был несовершенен) и порядок, на смену которому рвется хаос.

[......................]

Что в итоге? Городское население Киргизии, особенно – Бишкека – готово превратиться в беженцев. Если к власти придет непредсказуемая сила, еще и определить которую теперь будет крайне трудно, куда деваться городским людям, интеллигенции?
Россию ждет очередная волна русских беженцев, и смешанных семей. Готова ли наша страна их принять? Какое там, с прежними никак не разобрались.

[........................]

Гарантировать безопасность людей. Сейчас никто этого сделать не может. Но как решить проблему? Только совместными действиями ближайших соседей Киргизии – Узбекистана, Казахстана – и прежде всего – России. Это нам будет дорого стоить. И придется платить, ничего не поделаешь. Но если мы этого не сделаем, то значит, мы согласны с тем, что правительства в наших странах можно поодиночке менять, когда этого кто-то захочет. И этот кто-то уверен, что соседи и другие государства будут молчать. Сейчас молчание может обернуться не политическими потерями, а кровью мирных людей. Они пока еще живы. Нужно успеть. Власть – и прежде всего российская – будь твердой! На тебя еще надеются.

or this view:

http://www.izvestia.ru/comment/article1449111

Все "оранжевые" сценарии не сбылись. Оппозиция не просто проиграла выборы: она проиграла их с существенным отрывом. Слишком существенным, чтобы претендовать на ремейк киевской революции. Ее тезис о "массовых фальсификациях" не поддержан наблюдателями ОБСЕ. Перспективы судебного оспаривания результатов полностью исключены. Легальный путь к власти закрыт.
На улицы вышел классический люмпен-революционер, бессмысленный и беспощадный. Нынешние "революционеры" демонстрируют методы не Белграда и не Тбилиси. Скорее, Москвы 1993 года, но в преувеличенно экстремальном виде.

fdt

03-24-2005, 11:51 AM

Akayev fled to Kazakhstan. He left his family there and flown to Moscow.

Enduring Freedom

03-24-2005, 12:17 PM

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273722/273722_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273716/273716_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273718/273718_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273720/273720_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273726/273726_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273728/273728_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273730/273730_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273736/273736_picture_gallery_large.jpg

http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273734/273734_picture_gallery_large.jpg http://images.bt2.metropol.dk/273/273732/273732_picture_gallery_large.jpg

moughoun

03-24-2005, 12:22 PM

Akayev fled to Kazakhstan. He left his family there and flown to Moscow.
good, people power win's again

Marsuitor

03-24-2005, 12:37 PM

Haven't had the time nor opportunity to read through this thread in full or update myself on the situation, but i'd like to say that people like Me-262 is why i love this site. No matter what happens in the world, there's always some mp.net user at that location ready to make comment or post updates on the situation, so as to not having to filter through the media garbage.
Cheers to you M-262! Now carry on the posting please! :D

Marcus, out

M4ko

03-24-2005, 02:10 PM

Akayev fled to Kazakhstan. He left his family there and flown to Moscow.

His plane turned around and went to Kazahstan instead of Moscow. WHile his family is already there.

M4ko

03-24-2005, 02:13 PM

There is looting going on right now, just like in Iraq but on a lot smaller scale. One of medium supermarkets is beigng attacked by marauders and owner is shooting in the air with a hunting rifle to scare them away but they say its not helping much. Also kids are vandalizing goverment officials owned cars.

Grimmer

03-24-2005, 02:32 PM

Freedom reigns again! woot
Lukashenka, you're next! p-)

khukuri

03-24-2005, 03:04 PM

Freedom reigns again! woot
Lukashenka, you're next! p-)

x2

this is amazing. Country after country

Marmot1

03-24-2005, 06:30 PM

Freedom reigns again! woot
Lukashenka, you're next! p-)

x2

this is amazing. Country after country

x3 Ukraine is scheuled on saturday, yes?

Nizark

03-24-2005, 07:38 PM

This really is incredible, one after another they are falling. HA! this stuff happened so quick, they didnt even pick a color...or are they in a yellow revolution?

GO CIA!

Nizark

03-24-2005, 07:39 PM

REVOLUTION...coming to a former soviet bloc state near you.

Duck and cover Belarus!

RomanS

03-24-2005, 07:54 PM

Belarus is with Russia, they dont have to worry about anything.

bloddyaxe

03-24-2005, 08:00 PM

Interesting things happening there, hopefully not to many people will get killed.
Hopefully the Kyrgyztani people will get to vote soon and get on with their lifes.

NicNZ

03-24-2005, 08:35 PM

Has anyone actually considered that it isnt a revolution at all?
Go look up what a revolution actually is before posting topic titles like this one and throwing the term 'revolution' around :roll:

Nizark

03-24-2005, 08:52 PM

M4ko

03-24-2005, 09:36 PM

Chuckie

03-24-2005, 09:40 PM

Has anyone actually considered that it isnt a revolution at all?
Go look up what a revolution actually is before posting topic titles like this one and throwing the term 'revolution' around :roll:

took you a while to say that, youve already posted here a while ago....

In short, without looking up actual definition, Revolution is a violent/forceful change of government.

Like this....

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050321/capt.mosb11003211055.kyrgyzstan_protests_mosb110.jpg
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/21/kyrgyzstan.riots.ap/story.kyrgyzmon3.ap.jpg

Not to change subjects but this must be one of the top pics of 2005. That guy is totally pwned....

J-10

03-24-2005, 10:09 PM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050324/capt.mosb14203241537.kyrgyzstan_protests_mosb142.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050324/capt.mosb85703241729.kyrgyzstan_protests_mosb857.jpg
Protesters pursue riot police as they storm the government headquarters in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, Thursday, March 24, 2005. Protesters stormed the presidential compound in Kyrgyzstan on Thursday, seizing control of the main seat of state power after clashing with riot police, and President Askar Akayev reportedly resigned from office. (AP Photo/Gleb Shchelkunov, Izvestia)

Kyrgyzstan Gov't Collapses After Protest
Thu, Mar 24, 2005
By BAGILA BUKHARBAYEVA, Associated Press Writer

BISHKEK, Kyrgyzstan - President Askar Akayev's government collapsed Thursday after opposition protesters took over the presidential compound and government offices, throwing computers and air conditioners out of windows in a frenzy of anger over corruption and a disputed election.

The popular uprising in this impoverished Central Asian nation of 5 million forced Akayev to flee, was breathtaking in its speed and resulted in only a few dozen injured. The government was the third in a former Soviet republic — after Georgia and Ukraine — to be brought down by people power over the past year and a half.

One immediate challenge for the new rulers was rampant looting in government buildings and shops in the capital, Bishkek.

Whooping and whistling protesters took over the Soviet-era presidential headquarters, and groups of them took turns sitting in Akayev's chair. Outside, people tore up portraits of Akayev and stomped on them.

"It's not the opposition that has seized power, it's the people who have taken power. The people. They have been fighting for so long against corruption, against that (Akayev) family," said opposition activist Ulan Shambetov, one of the protesters who sat in the president's chair.

The upper house of the parliament that held power before a disputed election met Thursday night and elected a former opposition lawmaker, Ishenbai Kadyrbekov, as interim president until a new presidential vote, perhaps as early as May or June.

Two prominent opposition leaders, Kurmanbek Bakiyev and Felix Kulov, were named to top posts in an interim government, lawmakers said. The lower House of parliament early Friday appointed Bakiyev acting prime minister, and the upper House tapped Kulov, who was released from prison Thursday, to take charge of all law enforcement agencies.

The whereabouts of the 60-year-old Akayev — who had led Kyrgyzstan since 1990, before it gained independence in the Soviet collapse — were not known. U.S. officials said they could not confirm reports by the opposition and Russian news agencies that he had left the country.

The takeover of government buildings and state television in Bishkek followed similar seizures by opposition activists in the impoverished southern region, including the nation's second-largest city, Osh. Those protests began even before the first round of parliamentary elections Feb. 27 and swelled after March 13 run-offs that the opposition said were seriously flawed.

Politics in Kyrgyzstan depends as much on clan ties as on ideology, and the fractious opposition has unified around calls for more democracy, an end to poverty and corruption, and a desire to oust Akayev.

There was no sign the new leadership would change policy toward the West or Russia. Unlike the revolutions in Georgia and Ukraine, foreign policy has not been an issue.

Both the United States and Russia have military bases near Bishkek. About 1,000 U.S. troops are stationed at Manas air base outside the capital. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said Thursday he didn't believe they would be adversely affected by the turmoil.

Kyrgyzstan's role as a conduit for drugs and a potential hotbed of Islamic extremism, particularly in the south, makes it volatile. There is no indication, however, that the opposition would be more amenable to Islamic fundamentalist influence than Akayev's government has been.

"The future of Kyrgyzstan should be decided by the people of Kyrgyzstan, consistent with the principles of peaceful change, of dialogue and respect for the rule of law," U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said.

Neighboring regimes in Central Asia studiously ignored Thursday's uprising but their opposition parties were jubilant, hoping the seeds of democratic change had been sown in the region. After the "Rose Revolution" in Georgia in 2003 and the "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine last year, authorities have been increasingly nervous about their grip on power.

The takeover in Kyrgyzstan began with a rally Thursday morning on the outskirts of Bishkek, where about 5,000 protesters roared and clapped when Bakiyev said they soon would control the entire country.

Interior Minister Keneshbek Dushebayev urged demonstrators to obey the law, but he said no force would be used against peaceful protesters.

About 1,000 people surged toward the building housing Akayev's offices, meeting little resistance from helmeted riot police standing next to a protective fence with truncheons and shields. About half the crowd entered through the front. Others smashed windows with stones.

Some demonstrators were injured during a clash with a group of truncheon-wielding men in civilian clothes and blue armbands — the color of Akayev's party. One protester had a serious head injury and a broken leg, and another had broken ribs, said Iskander Shamshiyev, leader of the opposition Youth Movement of Kyrgyzstan.

Vincent Lusser, a Red Cross spokesman in Geneva, said its staff saw "a few dozen wounded" in Bishkek hospitals — most with injuries from falls or fist-fights.

Hundreds of police watched from outside the fence, where thousands more protesters remained. Neither side visibly carried firearms.

Officials left through a side door, protected by Interior Ministry troops. Some camouflage-clad troops also left peacefully.

Many demonstrators wore pink or yellow headbands signifying their loyalty to the opposition — reminiscent of the orange worn by protesters who helped elect a pro-Western president in Ukraine and the rose hues worn in the Georgian revolution.

At one point, a protester charged through the square on horseback, a yellow opposition flag waving, and protesters chanted, "Akayev, go!"

Dozens of youths rampaged inside the building, some smashing furniture and looting supplies, ignoring protest organizers who urged them to stop. Broken glass littered the floors and a drugstore in the building was ransacked.

"It's the victory of the people. But now we don't know how to stop these young guys," said Noman Akabayev, an unsuccessful legislative candidate.

Several hours after the takeover, thick plumes of black smoke rose from two burning cars nearby.

After nightfall, thousands milled peacefully in Ala-Too Square outside the presidential headquarters, occasionally breaking into cheers. A large store on a main street was looted, with mostly young men carting out crates of food, juice and cookies, as well as mattresses, mirrors and coat hangers.

"You have to understand, people are living in poverty," Kulov said.

Kulov's release from prison could be a key element in unifying the opposition, which until now has lacked a single clear leader.

He had been serving 10 years for embezzlement and abuse of power — charges he says were fabricated by the Akayev regime. A former vice president, interior minister and mayor of Bishkek, Kulov was arrested after announcing his candidacy for president in 2000.

"It is a revolution made by the people," Kulov said on state television, adding, "Tomorrow will come, and we must decide how to live tomorrow."

Akayev was long regarded as a reform-minded leader, but in recent years he turned more authoritarian. In 2002, his reputation was tarnished after police killed six demonstrators protesting the arrest of an opposition lawmaker.

"I am very happy because for 15 years we've been seeing the same ugly face that has been shamelessly smiling at us," said Abdikasim Kamalov, holding a red Kyrgyz flag outside the presidential building. "We could no longer tolerate this. We want changes."

On Thursday night, thousands stayed on the main square outside the presidential headquarters. An elderly man and woman in a clearing in the crowd danced to imaginary music as a man pretended to beat drums.
From (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&ncid=721&e=6&u=/ap/20050325/ap_on_re_eu/kyrgyzstan)

J-10

03-24-2005, 11:09 PM

Rice: Kyrgyzstan Events May Be Good Thing
Thu Mar 24, 6:19 PM ET Europe - AP
By ANNE GEARAN, AP Diplomatic Writer

WASHINGTON - The upheaval in Kyrgyzstan could wind up a democratic success story if political change occurs without violence, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Thursday.

It is too soon to know where the chaotic scene on the streets of the Kyrgyz capital Bishkek is leading, Rice said.

"It doesn't happen on Day 1," Rice said. "This is a process that's just beginning. We know where we want to go."

The United States has cheered democratic movements in Ukraine, Lebanon and elsewhere, but it has not endorsed street demonstrations and the storming of Kyrgyz government buildings.

"If we can take events on the ground ... encourage the various parties in Kyrgyzstan to move into a process that will then lead to the election of a government and move this process of democracy forward, it will have been a very good thing," Rice said after a meeting with Greek Foreign Minister Petros Molyviatis.

Kyrgyzstan is a former Soviet republic that borders China. It is poor despite oil and natural gas resources. It has strategic importance because of its location bridging East and West. Both Russia and the United States have air bases in the country.

Rice said she discussed Kyrgyzstan with President Bush on Thursday. The Organization for Cooperation and Security in Europe is leading international efforts to promote a peaceful outcome, she said.

"Our desire is for a process that will lead to a stable outcome in which elections can be held and where this can move forward," Rice said. "Obviously, everyone should put aside violence. There is no place for violence in a process of this kind."

The United States would not confirm media reports that Kyrgyzstan's president has fled the country following street demonstrations, and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld cast doubt on those reports.

"The intelligence reports do not verify what you cited," Rumsfeld answered when asked directly about reports that President Askar Akayev had fled.

Kyrgyzstan's ambassador to the United States, Baktybek Abdrissaev, told a news conference at the National Press Club that Akayev is "in a safe place."

State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said he could not confirm anything about the whereabouts of Akayev and his entourage. The United States is not backing any opposition candidate, Ereli said.

"The future of Kyrgyzstan should be decided by the people of Kyrgyzstan, consistent with the principles of peaceful change, of dialogue and respect for the rule of law," Ereli said.

The Central Asian nation of 5 million was the scene of disputed parliamentary elections in February. The current unrest stemmed from dissatisfaction with those elections.

The United States has had misgivings about Akayev's democratic credentials for several years. He expanded his powers with an illegal referendum in 1996 and the OSCE called 2000 elections there invalid.

The parliament in power before the February elections was reconstituted and then met Thursday night to discuss keeping order in the nation and conducting a new presidential vote, perhaps as early as May or June.

Legislators in the upper house elected a former opposition lawmaker, Ishenbai Kadyrbekov, as interim president, but the lower chamber did not immediately approve the choice.

Kadyrbekov, a Communist lawmaker in the previous bicameral parliament, was disqualified by authorities from running in the disputed elections in February and early March. In February, before it had even gathered force, the uprising was dubbed the Tulip Revolution.

Rumsfeld, traveling in Central America, also said he did not believe U.S. forces in Kyrgyzstan would be harmed by the turmoil. There are roughly 1,000 U.S. troops at Manas air base outside of Bishkek.

At U.S. Central Command headquarters in Tampa, Fla., a spokesman, Navy Cmdr. Nick Balice, said, "We're obviously watching the situation closely," but he would not say more about the level of U.S. concern.

The Kyrgyzstan government's authority crumbled in the South over the past week, and on Thursday the opposition concentrated its forces on the capital. A rally that began with about 1,000 people picked up strength as unarmed demonstrators marched to the government compound.

Some carried yellow narcissus or stuck the flowers in breast pockets as a symbol of their peaceful ambitions.
From (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_re_eu/us_kyrgyzstan_6)

Abbyy

03-25-2005, 01:59 AM

Если коалиционный совет не в состоянии навести порядок и утихомирить эту толпу (примерно 15 тысяч), которая в данный момент грабит город, то как она собирается править 5 миллионами людей, а?

Вот:
Толпа разграбила: (проверенные данные)
- СилкВей
- Плаза
- Народный-Плаза
- Тысяча мелочей
- Бител
- Дом Торговли
- 2 магазина Народный на Ахунбаева
- Бета Сторес (горит уже больше часа)
- British Airways
- KLM
- Рубин
- Алтын
- Гоин
- ЦУМ
- Светоч
- рынок "Мадина"
- Ареопаг на Дзержинке
- Домино
- Sela

RomanS

03-25-2005, 02:18 AM

Belarus is with Russia, they dont have to worry about anything.

Give it time, Luchenko will do something which even Vladimir will not agree with, stuff will go down, and another CIA sponsored revolution will be knocking on russia's door...along with a bunch of NATO bases that you guys love so much ;)

ummm

uhhhhhhhhhh

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAH....
http://www.knightopia.com/journal/archives/08-16-2004_lumbergh.jpg

I guess we gonna have to bring the tanks, troops, and artillery and turn them into ruins.

Oh wait, Belorus is not part of Russia. But we're still friends :P

fdt

03-25-2005, 02:23 AM

@Abbyy

As I've noticed, one of the main concerns of the Kyrgyzstani people was the "Akaev family privatization"... what in fact was a theft. Main bulk of formerly state owned enterprises (at least those profitable) have been taken over by Akaev, his family or his "power clan". I think that such a "policy" disqualifies Akaev from being country's leader far more gravely than looting of few dozens of shops and offices disqualifies so called opposition. I bet that there are methods to calculate how much harm did such Akaev policy did to Kyrgyzstani economics... and then to compare this to value of looted and destroyed in riot property... so pls don't jump so hastily to conclusions.

Now it's the time when the "opposition" will have to take over and to bring order to the streets. Will manage to do this? We'll see, but it's definitely to soon to give a fair judgement if they are capable or not to be at power.

fdt

03-25-2005, 02:29 AM

Oh wait, Belorus is not part of Russia. But we're still friends :P

But You have a "Union state"....

Лукашенко едет к Путину
16:30 / 24.3
4 апреля в Россию с рабочим визитом приедет президент Белоруссии Александр Лукашенко. Договоренность об этом была достигнута в четверг в ходе телефонного разговора Владимира Путина с Лукашенко.
Как сообщает "Интерфакс", в ходе беседы руководители двух государств обменялись мнениями по актуальным вопросам развития российско-белорусских отношений. Президенты также обменялись мнениями о международной ситуации. Разговор состоялся по инициативе российской стороны.
ИА "Росбалт" со ссылкой на белорусское государственное информагентство "БелТА" передает, что встреча президентов состоится в Сочи.
Предполагается, что на встрече будет обсужден широкий круг вопросов белорусско-российских отношений, в том числе в рамках Союзного государства.

M1A2U2

03-25-2005, 02:34 AM

http://news.ferghana.ru/photos/ernis/osh6.jpg
Is that a statue of Lenin? and if it is why is it still in place?
Also whats all this talk about the CIA sponsering these revolutions. Im not saying its not true just wondering if theres any evidence because I know many sceptics dont want to give any credit to the US for these revolutions.

Abbyy

03-25-2005, 02:46 AM

Sergei

03-25-2005, 03:41 AM

It didn't turn out to be peaceful and european-like protest like in Ukraine or Georgia. The asian mob is ruthless and non-compromise. This is a bloody revolt not peaceful change of government.

Abbyy

03-25-2005, 03:52 AM

Final victory of democratic forces.

http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/gallery/20050325blood/8.jpg

http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/gallery/20050325blood/9.jpg

http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/gallery/20050325blood/10.jpg

http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/gallery/20050325blood/11.jpg

http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/gallery/20050325blood/17.jpg

http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/gallery/20050325blood/21.jpg

http://pics.utro.ru/utro_photos/gallery/20050325blood/1.jpg

Abbyy

03-25-2005, 04:11 AM

В телевизоре очередной зоопарк - снова "демократическая революция". На этот раз жгут кыргызы, затеяв очередной "майдан", читай - переворот.

Пообещайте толпе, что можно делать что угодно безнаказанно - и завтра будет "революция". Демократическая, конечно.

Высокообразованный президент Акаев куда-то убежал.
Не смотри, что киборг ложками по башке бил - соображает ещё.
И, говорят, уже от всего отрёкся.

Запирайте етажи, нынче будут грабежи! Горят здания, кого-то ловят, избивают представителей враждебных кланов. Пора бы уже и друг друга резать начать.

Прикольно смотреть, насколько убоги карикатурные "демократические власти". Насколько убоги "демократические" пародии на государства.
Со стороны - чисто дятел в карточный домик залетел.

Результат "демократической революции" - как обычно, приход к власти другого клана. Назначение на все важные посты своих родственников, а не родственников президента Акаева. Отъём и передел собственности и доходных мест.

Кто будет контролировать контрабанду топлива из Узбекистана?
Кто будет заправлять переправкой наркотиков в Россию? Город Ош ждут серьёзные перемены. Почему именно Ош? Потому что именно там крутятся все наркотические деньги. Крайне интересно их количество потраченное на "революцию".

Жаль, особо продвинутых исламских фундаменталистов пока что не видно. Ну, чтобы опять в каменный век - паранджа, джыхад и всё такое.

Интересно, где ожидается очередная вспышка "демократии"?

Marmot1

03-25-2005, 04:16 AM

And what you expect from poor people? When their "President" was looting country in "legal" way for 15 years now they want do do this to. Maybe those "rich" shops symbolize corupt goverment for them. Look on all antiglobalist riots... they always target McDonalds and other symbols of what they are against. And do not forget that there are always some criminal elements who exploit situation to steal and loot. To tell you a truth I expected more violent escalation of situation with tanks on streets and lot of dead. Fortunatelly I was wrong, and I am happy with that. Akayev was kind of men who do not give up power in democratic way, it's why revolution was only way to topple him.

fdt

03-25-2005, 04:17 AM

But how do You change the corrupt and fraudulent Govt by legal means?

You have "elections". Govt uses all the "plolittechnology" tricks available. No free press, usage of State's resources for campaign, organised by Govt and State organs pressure on people (threats of firing, pressure on State's employees and many many more) to vote "right way".

Govt wins such "elections".

Elections commission controlled by Govt declares "elections" legal.

You go to High Court controlled by Govt , and (what a surprise..!) it also declares that "elections" are legal...

What means are You left? Legally, You can only seat on Your ass, and watch the "elected" Govt changing constitution to enable president to run 3rd, 4th and 5th time... the same mode.

Can't You see that such a Govt is in fact, unchangeable by legal means?

Sorry to say but it's in many countries (in Belarus, Africa, South America and Asia) this model still applies. Can't touch this... with legal means. I don't claim that only Russia supports such Govts in World. US does this in South America and Middle East (more or less but it does), France in Africa ...

They are doing this for the sake of "stability" or (as Russia does) for the sake of "long term ties and friendship" ...but it doesn't change the fact that it's shame... and talking that "Yes we are doing this, but others do it too"... changes nothing...

As it goes to looting. It's unfortunately a normal thing in such a cases where violence is a mean of changing the govt... especially in poor countries. I realize that in Russian media all this disorder makes today all headlines... and there is a commentators tendency to present all events through it, but as I've said before... we will see. Too early to judge this whole revolution... that was triggered by another of series of cheeky frauds commited by this "legal" Govt. Talking about "formal" cause of mutiny is a grave misunderstanding in this context.

Marmot1

03-25-2005, 04:19 AM

fdt

03-25-2005, 04:28 AM

@ Abbyy

Short memory? You should know that sometimes You got to pay the price...

Such things were happening in Moscow only 12 years ago...

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2003/10/03/russia933.jpg

http://www.marxist.com/images/russia_oct93/oct93_1.jpg

http://www.marxist.com/images/russia_oct93/oct93_3.jpg

http://www.marxist.com/images/russia_oct93/oct93_4.jpg

http://www.marxist.com/images/russia_oct93/oct93_6.jpg

Abbyy

03-25-2005, 04:34 AM

Abbyy

03-25-2005, 04:40 AM

@ Abbyy

Short memory? You should know that sometimes You got to pay the price...

Such things were happening in Moscow only 12 years ago...

I remember these events very well. Actually i stayed under that bridge near to White House. It was rather scary.

And we have learned lessons of 1991 and 1993. We do not want (afraid) any radical changes for the sake of stability.

Remember what Stolypin said about that back in the end of XIX century.

fdt

03-25-2005, 05:12 AM

But how do You change the corrupt and fraudulent Govt by legal means?

Err... By looting shops and burning police stations?

Govt wins such "elections".
Elections commission controlled by Govt declares "elections" legal.
You go to High Court controlled by Govt , and (what a surprise..!) it also declares that "elections" are legal...

Does that means that Bush actually lost first term election?

Does that means that i should spark revolution in Russia just because opposition failed to win chairs in parliament?
Errr.... by getting rid of the corrupt "El Presidente"... what happened. Looting is a side effect... Better this than bloodshed and regular fights with use of tanks. Remember Ceausescu? Know why was no looting there? There was nothing in the shops to loot...

Bush? Those elections were stunningly close... not fraud. "And in America they beat blacks"... again? Huh?

Nobody wants You to spark any revolution, but tell me how do You change the Govt when it fakes the elections and controls Election Commission and Supreme Court? What do You need to act on "civil disobedience" mode? Faking elections is the gravest of all crimes against the citizens... in democracy.

fdt

03-25-2005, 05:47 AM

I remember these events very well. Actually i stayed under that bridge near to White House. It was rather scary.

And we have learned lessons of 1991 and 1993. We do not want (afraid) any radical changes for the sake of stability.

What makes You think that every radical change ... must end in mass violence and civil war? Don't You trust Your own people's common sense?

In democratic countries, radical changes are made through elections.
When You fake elections, You leave Your People dangerous choice: to shut up or to act against the opperssive Govt. It is You then who You provokes violence. Faking elections is a crime against the People, because it provokes protest, beyond the frame of law (that has been broken by those who fake).

Protest against faked elections may of course turn into a civil war, but also may go peaceful way through peaceful protest.

Peaceful protest requires a certain level of self organisation within ranks of protesters. Organized protest has a substantial chance to go without a bloodshed. Not organized protest may turn into a bloodshed. Conclusion? You always need the legal and organized opposition, because You never know when it will be needed to keep You country in one piece. That's a rule, and that is why in democratic countries You can not prosecute Your political opponents, You can fight them within the frames of political and legal system, but You cannot jail or kill them only because they have different views. It's not only because they are useful (for Your country) in time of protest, but also because, normal opposition keeps Your elections process alive, guarding it's transparency and fairness. Prosecuting opposition is then another crime against Your own People and it may indirectly or directly spark the bloodshed.

Conclusion: it is not that protesters provoke bloodshed. Bloodshed is provoked more likely by those who fake elections (and disable this tool of peaceful change) and those who prosectue opposition (disabling the People's possibility to choose). If You feel (but really in Your heart) that elections are not fake, You simply wait to next elections to change the Govt, but if You don't... what can You do?

J-10

03-25-2005, 07:01 AM

Kyrgyz Opposition Names President, Russia Supports
Fri, Mar 25, 2005
By Michael Steen

BISHKEK (*******) - Kyrgyzstan's opposition, a day after snatching power in a lightning coup in the ex-Soviet state, on Friday named a new acting president and won almost immediate -- and vital -- support from Russia.

The government of veteran President Askar Akayev, who has fled, collapsed on Thursday after thousands of protesters stormed the main administration building in Bishkek, dragging the Central Asian city into an orgy of looting.

"God forbid anybody would have to have such a revolution," Felix Kulov, freed from jail by supporters on Thursday and appointed acting interior minister, told state television. "It was a rampage of looting, just like in Iraq."

At least one man was shot dead during the looting overnight and 31 police officers were wounded, some seriously, he said. Gunshots rang out throughout the night in the city of 800,000.

The unrest in the capital Bishkek followed violent protests earlier in the week in the poorer south.

The Kyrgyz ambassador to the United States called it a coup. "This ... is an anti-constitutional coup," Baktybek Adrisaev told CNN.

But Russian President Vladimir Putin said Moscow was ready to work with the Kyrgyz opposition and offered refuge in Russia to Akayev, who is thought to have fled abroad, possibly to neighboring Kazakhstan.

"We know these people (the opposition) pretty well and they have done quite a lot to establish good relations between Russia and Kyrgyzstan," Putin told reporters on a visit to Armenia.

In Bishkek, broken glass and naked mannequins ripped from shop windows littered the streets after a night of looting. The situation remained tense on Friday.

"We had three men guarding the store but there was a crowd of about 100 people," said Oleg Ivanchenko, head of security at one shop.

"They starting throwing stones at the windows and told us if we didn't get out they'd smash us up along with the shop ... They took everything away. I called the police but there was no answer."

THIRD EX-SOVIET REVOLUTION

Impoverished Kyrgyzstan becomes the third ex-Soviet state in two years, after Georgia and Ukraine, where a revolt after disputed elections has ousted the entrenched leadership.

Only Kyrgyzstan's revolution was violent and only its opposition government immediately won the backing of Moscow which once ruled the region.

And, unlike the new leaders in Georgia and Ukraine who have irked Moscow, Kyrgyzstan's opposition has shown no interest in shifting Westwards away from Russian influence.

Akayev, by the standards of the autocratic rulers who dominate Central Asia, was relatively liberal but failed to lift the population of 5 million out of poverty. Most get by on a dollar a day.

It was that, analysts say, which underpinned the protests against the results of parliamentary elections in February and March in which the opposition was routed and which international observers said were flawed.

Opposition leader Kurmanbek Bakiev, who played a central role in the protests that brought down Akayev, said he had been named acting president.

"Parliament today appointed me prime minister and gave me the functions of president," he told supporters in Bishkek.

Analysts say there is little love lost between the key opposition leaders, with Kulov, freed from jail by protesters on Thursday, seen as more popular than Bakiev.

Most of the opposition leaders were themselves top officials at some time during Akayev's 14-year rule.

Kulov was once police chief and head of the National Security Ministry, successor to the Soviet-era KGB.

It was during Bakiev's premiership, which ended in 2002, that the U.S. air force was allowed to set up a base near the capital Bishkek and Kulov was imprisoned for abuse of power and theft.

"For their own credibility they need to make sure they control law and order and what happened yesterday doesn't just look like a sudden takeover," one Western diplomat said.

He said that the new leaders needed to continue the planned reforms of the previous government.

(Additional reporting by Olga Dzyubenko, Dmitry Solovyov and Christian Lowe in Bishkek and Hasmik Mkrtchyan in Yerevan)
From (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20050325/wl_nm/kyrgyzstan_dc)

redfox0035

03-25-2005, 08:00 AM

Пообещайте толпе, что можно делать что угодно безнаказанно - и завтра будет "революция". Демократическая, конечно.

Результат "демократической революции" - как обычно, приход к власти другого клана. Назначение на все важные посты своих родственников, а не родственников президента Акаева. Отъём и передел собственности и доходных мест.

He's very wise man in every aspect, furthemore he lived there.

But to add some colourful view to DEMOLUTION:

ftp://ftp.uni-techno.com/bishkek/
http://diesel.elcat.kg/index.php?showtopic=48405&st=20
http://www.livejournal.com/users/morrire/47757.html?#cutid1

M4ko

03-25-2005, 05:48 PM

M4ko

03-25-2005, 05:51 PM

Dont defend marauders, they are using revolution as an excuse to loot. It turned out bloody only beucase Akayev ordered not to use force otherwise all of them wouldve been beat down with rubber sticks and taken away. He just sent out email saying that he is still the president and only away untill situation improves. Also, Putin invited him for talks.

barakelde

03-27-2005, 01:40 AM

Hi guys, sorry for not posting in a while. I had (and still have) very limited internet access. I have taken a whole bunch of pictures of our revolution (600+, including pictures of the actual storming - I took them from the roof of a building adjacent to our White House :lol: ) and as soon as our office opens (Monday) I will post them for you.

M4ko
Spot on. Our President had 2 courses of action: a) use whatever force necessary to break up the opposition or b) peacefully resign. The fact that he did not go either way is a testimony that he is a coward and should be brought under trial (too bad our Constitution does not allow that).

Quick update.
The situation is now more or less under control of law-enforcement agencies. Stores are opening up (I bought fresh dairy products yesterday morning). AFAIK, there was no looting last night and no significant looting the night before. In fact, the night of March 25 was the time when our police started to take things under control. Police was authorized to shoot suspected looters (and it did). Police is aided by volunteers (íàðîäíûå äðóæèíû) and I am happy to be one of them ;)

It appears that most of looting was initiated by some members of the new Parliament (which was now declared illegitimate by our Supreme Court) who, upon hearing the news of Akayev's lam, told their boys/gang members that the city was theirs for taking :(

Anyhow, the collateral damage suffered by our businesses during these days, IMHO, is far less than the economic damage caused by 14 years of Akaev's Presidency.

I think that one of the most sensible things for our new government to do would be to declare an amnesty of capital (not sure about the English translation, in Russian it is àìíèñòèÿ êàïèòàëà) and then make sure that governments revenues (duties and taxes) are collected in a transparent and predictable manner. Tax and customs administration was one of the weakest areas of the former government.

More to follow,

Best,
Me-262

P.S. To Russian MP'ers. Áëÿòü, äî ÷åãî æå ðàçâåëîñü ýêñïåðòîâ ïî Êûðãûçñòàíó íà ðîññèéñêîì ÒÂ. ;) È âåäü ïî÷òè íèêòî, íèêòî íå ðàçáèðàåòñÿ â ñèòóàöèè, íî ñ óìíûì âèäîì íà÷èíàåò ÷åñàòü ïðî çàãîâîð ÖÐÓ è íåñòè ïðî÷óþ âåëèêîäåðæàâíóþ ÷åïóõåíöèþ. À ïðèç èäèîòà íåäåëè íà ðîññèéñêîì ÒÂ óõîäèò Ìèõàèëó Ëåîíòüåâó ("Îäíàêî") è Âëàäèìèðó Æèðèíîâñêîìó. woot

NicNZ

03-27-2005, 02:54 AM

In short, without looking up actual definition, Revolution is a violent/forceful change of government.

Not quite! Close though.

The term 'Revolution' implies a complete change of the socio/political structures. From, for instance, Czarist Russia to Communist Russia. A change in democratic or semi-democratic Kyrgyzstani governments does not constitute a revolution, be it violent or otherwise. What you are talking about -- and witnessing! -- is an uprising and little (if anything) more.

Its interesting stuff though. I am enjoying keeping an eye on events. I will be interested to see how China involves itself as it is no doubt interested in the resources or resource-access that Kyrgyzstan represents.

Flagg

03-27-2005, 04:35 AM

ME-262

Thanks very much for the "person on the ground view" of events unfolding in your country.

It's been really interesting comparing your experiences with the limited coverage I have seen thus far on satellite.

Please continue and post photos when you get the opportunity.

It's the rare thread like THIS that makes milphotos.net worthwhile to visit.

Thanks again, keep up the good work!

Abbyy

03-27-2005, 07:54 AM

P.S. To Russian MP'ers. Áëÿòü, äî ÷åãî æå ðàçâåëîñü ýêñïåðòîâ ïî Êûðãûçñòàíó íà ðîññèéñêîì ÒÂ. ;) È âåäü ïî÷òè íèêòî, íèêòî íå ðàçáèðàåòñÿ â ñèòóàöèè, íî ñ óìíûì âèäîì íà÷èíàåò ÷åñàòü ïðî çàãîâîð ÖÐÓ è íåñòè ïðî÷óþ âåëèêîäåðæàâíóþ ÷åïóõåíöèþ. À ïðèç èäèîòà íåäåëè íà ðîññèéñêîì ÒÂ óõîäèò Ìèõàèëó Ëåîíòüåâó ("Îäíàêî") è Âëàäèìèðó Æèðèíîâñêîìó. woot

Èõ íå òðîãàé - ó íèõ ñâîÿ agenda. Îíè è íå âíèêàëè îñîáåííî â îñîáåíîñòè êèðãèçñêîé ñèòóàöèè. :)

Óìíûõ ëþäåé ùàñ íå â òåëåâèçîðå íàäî èñêàòü, à â èíåòå.

È íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü, ÷òîáû ñîâñåì áåç àìåðèêàíöåâ îáîøëîñü. Êàê âàì òàêîå ìíåíèå:

Îò íåäàâíèõ ñîáûòèé â Êèðãèçèè ó ìåíÿ ñëîæèëîñü òàêîå âïå÷àòëåíèå:

1. Â ïðîöåññå ïðèõîäà ê âëàñòè Ñààêàøâèëè è Þùåíêî çàïàäíûìè ÑÌÈ áûëà ðàçâåðíóòà ýôôåêòèâíàÿ êàìïàíèÿ èíôîðìàöèîííîé ïîääåðæêè. Ïî âñÿêèì CNN, BBC, NBC è ïðî÷àÿ "íîâîñòè" ëèëèñü ðåêîé íà âñåì ïðîòÿæåíèè ãðóçèíñêîé "ðåâîëþöèè" à òàêæå çàòÿíóâøåéñÿ ïðåçèäåíòñêîé êàìïàíèè â Êèåâå. Ó ÑÌÈ áûëà öåëü, áûë îïåðàòèâíûé äîñòóï ê èíôîðìàöèè - âî âñåì îùóùàëàñü öåëåíàïðàâëåííàÿ êàìïàíèÿ.

Â ñèòóàöèè ñ Êèðãèçèåé òàêîãî íå íàáëþäàåòñÿ. Çàïàäíûå àãåíñòâà íîâîñòåé íóäíî ïåðåïå÷àòûâàþò ñîîáùåíèÿ ÐÈÀ "Íîâîñòè" è, âåðîÿòíî â ïîïûòêå íàéòè "íåçàâèñèìûå" èñòî÷íèêè, ïåðåïå÷àòûàþò ñîîáùåíèÿ êàêèõ òî íåïîíÿòíûõ êèðãèçñêèõ ñàéòîâ. Î÷åâèäíî îòñóòñòâèå ïëàíèðîâàíèÿ è äîñòóïà äî ðåàëüíîé èíôîðìàöèè.

2. Äâà èíòåðåñíûõ ìîìåíòà: ïîäàâëÿþùåå áîëüøèíñòâî íîâîñòåé î ñèòóàöèè â Êèðãèçèè â ïåðâûå äíè "ïóò÷à" (äà è ñåé÷àñ òîæå) èñõîäèò èç îäíîãî èñòî÷íèêà - ÐÈÀ "Íîâîñòè". Âòîðîé ìîìåíò - âñå ýòè "íîâîñòè" èìåþò ÿðêî âûðàæåííóþ ôîðìó ñëóõîâ, çà÷àñòóþ íå èìåÿ íå òîëüêî ññûëîê íà èñòî÷íèêè, íî äàæå òðàäèöèîííîãî â òàêîì ñëó÷àå "ïî ñîîáùåíèþ âûñîêîïîñòàâëåííîãî èñòî÷íèêà â <íàçâàíèå ìèíèñòåðñòâà> ïîæåëàâøåãî îñòàòüñÿ íåèçâåñòíûì".

ÐÈÀÍ ÿ ÷èòàþ ðåãóëÿðíî. Íå áåç èñêëþ÷åíèé, êîíå÷íî, íî â ìàññå ñâîåé ÐÈÀÍ ïóáëèêóåò ôàêòóàëüíóþ èíôîðìàöèþ çàñëóæèâàþùóþ äîâåðèÿ. Â ñëó÷àå ñ ñèòóàöèåé â Êèðãèçèè ñîçäàåòñÿ âïå÷àòëåíèå, ÷òî ãëàâîé ÐÈÀÍ íàçíà÷èëè ìåíÿ :-)

3. Ïîâåäåíèå è âûñêàçûâàíèÿ Ïóòèíà â ñâåòå ïîñëåäíèõ ñîáûòèé â Êèðãèçèè ÿ íàõîæó êðàéíå ëþáîïûòíûìè. Ïîëèòèêà Ïóòèíà (âî âñÿêîì ñëó÷àå åãî îôèöèàëüíàÿ ïîçèöèÿ) âñåãäà çàêëþ÷àëàñü â óñèëåíèè ÑÍÃ. È âäðóã â ñâîèõ ïîñëåäíèõ âûñêàçûâàíèÿõ óâàæàåìûé Âëàäèìèð Âëàäèìèðîâè÷ äàåò Ñîäðóæåñòâó î÷åíü ðåçêîå îïðåäåëåíèå, ñóùåñòâåííî óìàëÿþùåå äîñòîèíñòâà ýòîãî îáðàçîâàíèÿ.

Ñïîðà íåò - ÑÍÃ ýòî íå ïîäîáèå ÍÀÒÎ è óæ òî÷íî íå àíàëîã ÑÑÑÐ. Ýòà ïîëèòè÷åñêàÿ ãîâîðèëüíÿ ïðè áåçäåéñòâèè Ðîññèè ðàíî èëè ïîçäíî îáðå÷åíà íà âûìèðàíèå. È òåì íå ìåíåå, ÑÍÃ ýòî ïîëèòè÷åñêèé, ýêîíîìè÷åñêèé è äàæå âîåííûé èíñòðóìåíò â ðóêàõ Êðåìëÿ - òàêèõ èíñòðóìåíòîâ îñòàëîñü ñîâñåì ìàëî. Çàÿâëåíèÿ Ïóòèíà â Åðåâàíå îòíîñèòåëüíî ÑÍÃ ìîæíî ðàññìàòðèâàòü êàê ïðåäëîã äëÿ äàëüíåéøåãî óêðåïëåíèÿ ÑÍÃ è òðàíñôîðìàöèè ýòîãî ïîëèòè÷åñêîã îáðàçîâàíèå â íå÷òî áîëåå äåéñòâåííîå è êîíêðåòíîå.

Äàëåå, Ïóòèí âåñüìà íåîæèäàííî (äëÿ ìåíÿ, âî âñÿêîì ñëó÷àå) ïîääåðæàë êèðãèçñêèé "ïóò÷", âûðàçèâ æåëàíèå ñîòðóäíè÷àòü ñ ïðåäñòàâèòåëÿìè îïïîçèöèè. Ìåíÿ ýòî óäèâèëî ïî äâóì ïðè÷èíàì. Ïåðâîå ýòî, êîíå÷íî, òî, ÷òî àäìèíèñòðàöèÿ Àêàåâà ñ÷èòàåòñÿ ïðî-ðîññèéñêîé (ïî êðàéíåé ìåðå â çàïàäíîé ïðåññå). Âòîðîå - çàÿâëåíèå Ïóòèíà ìíå ïîêàçàëîñü íåñêîëüêî ïðåæäåâðåìåííûì, ò.ê. ñèòóàöèÿ â Êèðãèçèè áûëà (è åñòü) äàëåêà îò ÿñíîé. Â òî âðåìÿ êàê â ìèðîâûõ ÑÌÈ ïåðåïå÷àòûâàþòñÿ íåâíÿòíûå ñëóõè î ïîãðîìàõ â ãîðîäàõ Êèðãèçèè, î íåèçâåñòíîì ìåñòå íàõîæäåíèÿ Àêàåâà è åãî íåñêîëüêî ñòðàííîì ïîâåäåíèè, î íåïîíÿòíûõ îòíîøåíèÿõ ìåæäó ÷ëåíàìè êèðãèçñêîé "îïïîçèöèè", òîâàðèùè Ïóòèí è Íàçàðáàåâ óæå ïðåäëàãàþò Àêàåâó ïðèþò â ñâîèõ ñòðàíàõ è çàÿâëÿþò î æåëàíèè ñîòðóäíè÷àòü ñ "ðåâîëþöèîíåðàìè".

4. È, íàêîíåö, äåéñòèÿ ñàìîãî Àêàåâà âûçûâàþò íåêîòîðîå óäèâëåíèå. Åñëè âåðèòü åãî çàÿâëåíèþ (ïî÷åìó òî ïîëó÷åííîìó êåì òî ïî ýëåêòðîííîé ïî÷òå è îïóáëèêîâàííîìó íà êàêîì òî ñàéòå â èíòåðíåòå), òî Àêàåâ ñ÷èòàåò ñåáÿ çàêîííî èçáðàííîé ãëàâîé ïðàâèòåëüñòâà Êèðãèçèè. Åñëè òàê, òî äëÿ ïðåçèäåíòà îí âåäåò ñåáÿ êðàéíå íå ñîëèäíî. Â òî âðåìÿ êàê íà Àëàåâå ñêîíöåíòðèðîâàííî âíèìàíèå âñåõ êðóïíåéøèõ ÑÌÈ ìèðà, îí îãðàíè÷èâàåòñÿ åìåëåé âýáìàñòåðó ñåòåâîãî ñàéòà.

Ïðèíÿâ ïðåäëîæåíèÿ ëèáî Ïóòèíà ëèáî Íàçàðáàåâà (èëè äàæå ãàðàíòèþ áåçîïàñíîñòè îò òîãî æå Áàêèåâà), Àêàåâ áåç òðóäà ïîëó÷èë áû âîçìîæíîñòü ðàçäàâàòü èíòåðâüþ íàïðàâî è íàëåâî íàñòàèâàÿ íà ñâîåé ïîçèöèè î ëåãèòèìíîñòè âûáîðîâ. Âìåñòî ýòîãî Àêàåâ èñ÷åçàåò íà íåñêîëüêî äíåé ïîçâîëÿÿ îïïîçèöèîíåðàì çàõâàòèòü âëàñòü.

Áàêèåâ çàÿâèë: "Áåç Ðîññèè ìû íå ìûñëèì ñâîåãî áóäóùåãî. Íàøè ñòðàíû - áðàòñêèå. Òîëüêî ãëóïåö ìîæåò ãîâîðèòü ñåãîäíÿ îá èçîëÿöèè... Ìû ëþáèì è óâàæàåì Çàïàä, äåìîêðàòèþ. Íî íàðîä Êèðãèçèè äîëæåí âûáèðàòü ñâîþ ñóäüáó ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíî... Íå âåðüòå òîìó, ÷òî ïîêàçûâàþò â òåëåíîâîñòÿõ. Â Êèðãèçèè âñå ñïîêîéíî. Îáñòàíîâêà â þæíûõ îáëàñòÿõ íîðìàëèçîâàíà. Ïîãðîìû, ìàðîäåðñòâà â Áèøêåêå ïðåêðàùåíû. Ëþäè âûøëè íà ðàáîòó. Ìàãàçèíû, áîëüíèöû, øêîëû îòêðûòû. Ìèëèöèÿ íåñåò ñëóæáó. Ìèíèñòåðñòâà è âåäîìñòâà ôóíêöèîíèðóþò." ( http://newsru.com/world/26mar2005/kirf.html) Êîðî÷å, "â Áàãäàäå âñå ñïîêîéíî".

Èç çàÿâëåíèÿ Àêàåâà: "Êàê çàêîííî èçáðàííûé ãëàâà ãîñóäàðñòâà ÿ è âïðåäü îñòàíóñü íåîòúåìëåìûì âåäóùèì ó÷àñòíèêîì ãîñóäàðñòâåííûõ è ïîëèòè÷åñêèõ ïðîöåññîâ â ðåñïóáëèêå. Ïîïûòêà íåêîíñòèòóöèîííûì ïóòåì ëèøèòü ìåíÿ ïðåçèäåíòñêèõ ïîëíîìî÷èé ÿâëÿåòñÿ ãîñóäàðñòâåííûì ïðåñòóïëåíèåì. Ìîå íûíåøíåå ïðåáûâàíèå âíå ñòðàíû ýòî âðåìåííîå ÿâëåíèå... ß ïðèçûâàþ òåõ ëèö, êîòîðûå âñòàëè íà íåçàêîííûé ïóòü, âåðíóòü ñèòóàöèþ â èñõîäíîå ïîëîæåíèå, âîññòàíîâèòü êîíñòèòóöèîííûé ïðàâîïîðÿäîê. Îáðàùàþñü ê ìóäðîñòè àêñàêàëîâ, èìåþùåé äðåâíèå èñòîêè." ( http://vip.lenta.ru/doc/2005/03/25/akaev/)

Â ñóùíîñòè ñâîåé ýòî ñëîâà îáèäû â ñîâîêóïíîñòè ñ õîòðîñòüþ è ïðèìèðåíèåì. Â íèõ íåò ïðèçûâîâ ê áîðüáå ïðîòèâ çàõâàòèâøèõ âëàñòü è äàæå åñòü òàêàÿ íåâèííàÿ ïðîñüáà ê îïïîçèöèîíåðàì "âîññòàíîâèòü êîíñòèòóöèîííûé ïðàâîïîðÿäîê". Ýòî âåñüìà ìÿãêîå çàÿâëåíèå ñâåðãíóòîãî ïðåçèäåíòà çàðàáîòàëî åìó ãàðàíòèþ íåïðèêîñíîâåííîñòè â Êèðãèçèè è âîçìîæíîñòü ïðèåçäà â Ìîñêâó.

Â ñâîåì çàÿâëåíèè Àêàåâ òàêæå íàìåêàåò íà âîçìîæíîñòü åãî ïîëèòè÷åñêîãî áóäóùåãî â Êèðãèçèè, íî íà äàííîì ýòàïå ýòî, êîíå÷íî, ïðåäñòâàëÿåòñÿ ìàëîâåðîÿòíûì. Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû, è íîâûì âëÿñòÿì Êèðãèçèè è ïîääåðæàâøåìó èõ ðîññèéñêîìó ðóêîâîäñòâó âàæíî èìåòü êîíñòðóêòèâíûé äèàëîã ñ Àêàåâûì õîòÿ áû äëÿ ïðèäàíèÿ àóðû ëåãèòèìíîñòè ïîëèòè÷åñêèì èçìåíåíèÿì â Áèøêåêå. Ìîæíî íå ñîìíåâàòüñÿ, ÷òî ðàçîáðàâøèñü, íàêîíåö, â èíôîðìàöèîííîì ïîòîêå ÐÈÀÍ, çàïàäíûå áîðöû çà àìåðèêàíñêóþ äåìîêðàòèþ âî âñåì ìèðå ñîîáðàçÿò, ÷òî ñîáûòèÿ â Êèðãèçèè ýòî íå àíàëîã ðîçîâî-îðàíæåâûõ ðåâîëþöèé. Ðîññèéñêîìó ïðàâèòåëüñòâó òàêæå âàæíî äåðæàòü Àêàåâà ïîáëèçîñòè è, âîìîæíî, èñïîëüçîâàòü åãî â çàâèñèìîñòè îò æåëàíèÿ èëè íåæåëàíèÿ áûâøåé êèðãèçñêîé îïïîçèöèè ñîòðóäíè÷àòü ñ Ìîñêâîé.

5. Â ñâÿçè ñ ñîáûòèÿìè â Êèðãèçèè îñòàåòñÿ ìíîãî âîïðîñîâ. Îäèí èç íàèáîëåå èíòåðåñíûõ - ÷åì ìîæíî îáüÿñíèòü ñòîëü áûñòðûé îòêàç ðîññèéñêîãî ðóêîâîäñòâà îò, ÿêîáû, ïðî-ðîññèéñêîãî Àêàåâà è ïîëíàÿ ïîääåðæêà Êðåìëåì êèðãèçñêîé îïïîçèöèè? ß íå ìîãó ñîãëàñèòñÿ ñî ìíåíèåì, ÷òî Ðîññèÿ äåéñòâîâàëà ïî ïðèíöèïó "åñëè èõ íåëüçÿ ïîáåäèòü, òî ê íèì íóæíî ïðèñîåäåíèòüñÿ". Ïîëèòèêà Ðîññèè â äàííîì ñëó÷àå âèäèòñÿ áîëåå ïðîäóìàííîé, áîëåå ïîäãîòîâëåííîé. Âñïîìèíàþòñÿ íåäàâíèå ñîîáùåíèÿ â íîâîñòÿõ î âîçìîæíîñòè áàçèðîâàíèè àìåðèêàíñêèõ âîéñê â Êèðãèçèè íà ïîñòîÿííîé îñíîâå. Íà òåððèòîðèè ñòðàíû îäíîâðåìåííî ñóùåñòâóþò è ðîññèéñêàÿ è àìåðèêàíñêàÿ âîåííûå áàçû - ñèòóàöèÿ íå ñîâñåì îáû÷íàÿ. Àêàåâ ëþáèë èãðàòü "è âàøèì è íàøèì", ÷òî íå íðàâèëîñü íè òåì íè äðóãèì.

Äà, àìåðèêàíöû îêàçûâàëè äàâëåíèå íà Àêàåâà, òðåáîâàëè åãî îòñòàâêè, ïîäâåðãëè æåñòêîé êðèòèêå ðåçóëüòàòû âûáîðîâ, îêàçûâàëè ôèíàíñîâóþ ïîääåðæêó êèðãèçñêîé îïïîçèöèè. Îäíàêî ê ïåðåâîðîòó â Êèðãèçèè àìåðèêàíöû, ñêîðåå âñåãî, íå èìåþò ïðÿìîãî îòíîøåíèÿ. Ýòî, êîíå÷íî, íå èñêëþ÷àåò âîçìîæíîñòè, ÷òî íå÷òî ïîäîáíîå àìåðèêàíöû ïëàíèðîâàëè íà áóäóùåå, êîãäà îïïîçèöèÿ íàõîäèëàñü áû ïîä áîëåå ïëîòíûì êîíòðîëåì Âàøèíãòîíà. Íà íàñòîÿùèé ìîìåíò ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ, ÷òî ñîáûòèÿ â Êèðãèçèè è äåéñòâèÿ Ìîñêâû íåñêîëüêî îïåðåäèëè àìåðèêàíñêîå ïëàíèðîâàíèå.

barakelde

03-28-2005, 12:46 AM

As promised.
Part 1.
Pictures from peaceful anti-President rally (morning of March 24). (http://www.pbase.com/fcenter/rally)
There were several simultaneous anti-President rallies throughout Bishkek that morning.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Rally/P1040912.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Rally/P1040955.jpg
This is our newly appointed Minister of Interior speaking. He is asking people to quit f*cking around and promises to use any available weaponry (except firearms) at his disposal to maintain order. Note: the microphone is working.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Rally/P1050061.jpg
One of the opposition leaders speaking. Immediately after our new (now ex-) Minister of Interior left, the electricity was cut off and speakers had to use loudspeakers/megaphones.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Rally/P1050094.jpg
People used color of the revolution (pink) and made something very similar to Georgian flag out of pink crosses. ;)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Rally/P1050100.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Rally/P1050109.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Rally/P1050116.jpg
At some point Russians decided to pay us a visit. :)

Sometime around noon people from various parts of the city start moving towards the Central Square.

barakelde

03-28-2005, 01:00 AM

oops, big sexy red X's.
I'll post links to pages with pictures, instead of direct links to pictures.

barakelde

03-28-2005, 01:10 AM

Part 2.
People from all over the city start gathering at the Central Square. The opposition is planning to have a peaceful rally (Correction to my earlier posts: at this point in time the opposition is NOT planning to take over government buildings). However, government brings provocateurs (white hats and blue arm/head bands) who, armed with wooden sticks and shields start attacking peaceful participants of the rally. This is the moment when **** hits the fan big time. Unprovoked aggression detonates anger and people start throwing stones into white hats/blue armbands. White hats/blue armbands retreat and police enters the square. At first, people retreat, but, seeing that police is not using water-jets or tear gas, people start throwing stones into police. After a few minutes the police realizes that they have had enough and starts retreating. People chase the police and after a brief stand-off at the gates of the White House, people break into the building. Time is approx 15:30 (10:30 GMT)

Two hours later first supermarket is looted.

http://www.pbase.com/fcenter/inbox

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050152.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050171.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050185.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050206.jpg
Blue Ribbons retreat
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050222.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050223.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050226.jpg
Blue ribbons: HQ ;)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050244.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050247.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050251.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050252.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050258.jpg
Central Square, birds view ;)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050262.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050265.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050270.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050288.jpg
Police moves in after Blue Ribbons retreat
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050307.jpg
Guard of Honor leaving the Square
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050254.jpg
Police tries to hold the line
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050311.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050316.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050318.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050319.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050339.jpg
Back side of the White House. BTR and BRDM you see on these pictures are not combat-ready (they are used as mock-ups for training purposes).
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050347.jpg
VIP's leaving the building
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050353.jpg
You will see this Mercedes (W140) on the aftermath pictures :lol:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050356.jpg
More VIP's leaving the building
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050369.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050370.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050374.jpg
Police is told to hold the line - "Reinforcements are on the way".
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050376.jpg
First people inside the perimeter.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050385.jpg
I've had enough
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050395.jpg
Pictures from the roof of an adjacent building.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050403.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050405.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050416.jpg
"Hold the line, reinforcements arriving in 2 minutes"
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050437.jpg
President's Colour
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050440.jpg
Army truck leaving the building
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050447.jpg
Soldiers marching out of the White House
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050454.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050458.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050460.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050464.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050477.jpg
Boxes carried by soldiers are ammo crates.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050487.jpg
Last defenders going home
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Storming/P1050497.jpg

barakelde

03-28-2005, 01:13 AM

Aftermath pictures.
http://www.pbase.com/fcenter/aftermath

Recognize this car?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050517.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050518.jpg
Another Benz (W210).
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050521.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050528.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050530.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050541.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050543.jpg
ID this gun, please. Saiga?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050546.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050552.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050565.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050593.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050599.jpg
I am surprised this car survived the night of March 24-25.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050616.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050620.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050637.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050640.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050644.jpg
This is what I used as a tripod inside the looted supermarket.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/P1050646.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050532.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050535.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050551.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050556.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050565.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050568.jpg
White House Guards :lol:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050576.jpg
White House Check Point.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050578.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050583.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050587.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050589.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/fcenter/Aftermath/rev-P1050594.jpg

barakelde

03-28-2005, 01:28 AM

The reasons of the looting mess are (IMHO):

a) cowardice of our ex-President (had he acted consistently, we would've not had such a complete chaos in the first evening of the revolution).

b) bad planning from our opposition. (If you are planning to oust the President, you should have some plans how to maintain order).

c) acts of sabotage from President's supporters. It is known that the new (now ex-) Minister of Interior told his subordinates to ingnore orders they were receiving from the opposition. He promised his staff that they will be getting reinforcements and that the President will be coming back. Law enforcement officers were absolutely confused (second change in leadership in three days) and did not know whose orders to follow.

d) acts of sabotage from newly elected members of the Parliament (see above).

barakelde

03-28-2005, 01:51 AM

To those of you who can understand Russian. Pretty good clip (from Internews) that describes how the story developed on March 24.
Warning, very large file (88 mb).

http://www.grinchenko.org/movies/24marta.avi

fdt

03-28-2005, 04:11 AM

Abbyy

03-28-2005, 04:32 AM

@ Me-262
Thanks to You MP has the best pictorial of actual events! Better than I've seen at any news agency! Pics are unique and great!!! This set deserves to be granted a separate gallery at MP galleries section!
You managed to catch a piece of history in the making.

Me-262
If you'll ask Hood he probably provide you with gallery account

fdt
Wanna me scan my archives for October 93' events pics? :)

fdt

03-28-2005, 04:40 AM

fdt
Wanna me scan my archives for October 93' events pics? :)

Don't ask stupid questions and hit Your scanner now! :D

barakelde

03-28-2005, 04:46 AM

fdt
Mate, thanks for hanging around and keeping the thread alive. Seriously, thank you for showing genuine interest/concern. I very much appreciate it. If you are ever in Kyrgyzstan, let me know ;)

To those who think an alternative solution was possible.
Ideally, there should be three equally powerful brances of government: legislative, judicial, executive. However, the system in my country is far from this as the executive branch is able to effectively control the remaining two branches. Let me draw you an analogy:

I offer you to play cards with me. Here is a catch - the rules are established by me and have a freedom to change the rules at whatever time I choose. I also bring a team of two independent judges (the other government branches) who are supposed to ensure fair play. As time passes by and as you lose more and more money you realize that:

a) rules are not fair
b) you try to appeal to supposedly independent judges but every single time they declare a verdict in your opponents favor. Eventually, you realize that the judges are controlled by your opponent (me).

Now, what can you do?
a) stop playing cards with me. (emigrate from the country)
b) punch me in the face and try to establish fair rules.

Abbyy

03-28-2005, 06:12 AM

http://top.rbc.ru/index.shtml?/news/daythemes/2005/03/28/28140039_bod.shtml

fdt.
I would like to clarify my position about revolutions: i'm ready to support any revolutions against corrupt governoments (most govts in post-Soviet space are corrupt no doubt in it) in case if new leaders ready to sustain good relations with my country and execute all agreements previously signed.

Contrary to that i'm ready to support any governoment in bordering country, even most corrupted one if opposition have anti-Russian intentions (Georgia was most obvious example and Ukraine falls into this category too).

Unfortunately theme of corrupt non-democratic authorities appears on media display only in case if local leader isn't enough actively sucks Western balls and makes friendship with RF.

Media almost didn't spent any time on non-democratic authorities change in Azerbadzhan and 100% corrupt govt of Kazakhstan for example. Why? May be because their leaders wanna do anything for the West just to stay in power?

barakelde

03-29-2005, 02:45 AM

WTF are they smokin at news.yahoo? :lol:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050328/lf_afp/kyrgyzstanpolitics_050328194347

The unsung role of Kung Fu in the Kyrgyz revolution

Mon Mar 28, 2:43 PM ET

KARA SUU, Kyrgyzstan (AFP) - Many say people power brought down the regime in Kyrgyzstan last week. But Bayaman Erkinbayev, a lawmaker, martial arts champ and one of the Central Asian nation's richest men, says it was his small army of Kung Fu-style fighters.

AFP/File Photo

In southern Kyrgyzstan, where the protests that brought down the Askar Akayev's 15-year regime first flared, the name of 37-year-old Erkinbayev seems to be on everyone's lips.

Erkinbayev is the wealthy playboy head of the Palvan Corporation, who led 2,000 fighters trained in Alysh, Kyrgyzstan's answer to Kung Fu, to protests launched after the first round of a parliamentary election on February 27.

A hero in his hometown Osh, he is generally considered to have financed the protests and sent his martial arts trainees to the front lines of the demonstrations, including in the capital Bishkek.

"When our old men were beaten and thrown out of the regional administration building, my fighters were on the front line. And during the siege in Bishkek, my fighters went in first," Erkinbayev told AFP in his gymnasium in Osh.

The demonstrations led to the toppling of Kyrgyzstan's veteran leader Askar Akayev, the third such "revolution" in an ex-Soviet nation in less than two years, after Georgia's "rose revolution" in 2003 and Ukraine's "orange revolution" late last year.

People in Kyrgyzstan's south say Erkinbayev threw his men and money behind the opposition to prepare voters for his candidacy in an upcoming presidential election.

Whether or not he was the driving force behind the toppling of the government, he is certainly regarded as such in his hometown.

When some 20,000 people gathered in Osh's main square over the weekend to celebrate the regime's fall, the crowd cheered Erkinbayev who had just returned from the capital Bishkek, and locals jostled to get a closer look at him and shake his hand.

Erkinbayev is not shy about taking credit for the tumult that led to Akayev's overthrow.

"I went out and rallied the people," he said, cracking his knuckles as he struggled to compose sentences in Russian, his muscled build showing through his pin-striped suit.

"The city of Osh, the capital of the south, played the most important role in the destruction of Akayev's regime."

Erkinbayev said he invested "an impressive amount" of money in keeping protesters in Jalal-Abad and Bishkek well fed and warm as they picketed and eventually stormed government buildings in this poor, mountainous state on China's western border.

He said the Kyrgyz revolution started in the small town of Kara Suu, where Erkinbayev's former boss and mentor Arap Tolonov was shut out of a parliamentary seat after a candidate loyal to president Akayev allegedly armed busloads of high school students with absentee ballots to stuff boxes.

Pupils from Erkinbayev's Alysh martial arts school in Osh were sent to protect demonstrators protesting the contested ballot in the Kara Suu bazaar.

Afterwards demonstrations with the participation of Erkinbayev's trainees spread to the southern cities of Jalal-Abad, Osh, and Batken. They captured government sites, burnt down police stations and blocked key highways in the lead-up to the chaos that deposed Akayev in Bishkek.

Erkinbayev won't say how much he is worth, but he is generally regarded as one of Kyrgyzstan's wealthiest people, especially in the impoverished south of the country.

A decade ago he was an underling at a tobacco factory, but today he owns the Kara Suu bazaar, a cotton processing business, a shoe factory, entertainment complexes and several other businesses.

He said his prowess in Alysh helped him progress.

"I have always been a champion, so the people love me. This helped me get involved in politics personally," said the three-time champion of Central Asia.

Erkinbayev is no stranger to election scandals.

In the parliamentary elections of 2000 he is said to have spent two weeks on the run from the police after allegedly beating a judge who ordered him to drop out of the race for failing to disclose some of his wife's property in his registration form.

The ruling was later overturned under unclear circumstances and Erkinbayev described it as an "untruth."

"When I met the judge later he retracted his accusations," he said.