PDA

View Full Version : Jewish Albatross: The Serbs



RSK
03-21-2005, 04:52 PM
Jewish Albatross: The Serbs


By Julia Gorin


FrontPageMagazine.com | March 16, 2005

Imagine that a country is fighting domestic terrorism by Muslim militants
who are carrying out attacks against police, government officials and
citizens in a bid to carve out their own state, hoping to provoke a response
from the government that will alarm the international community.
Imagine that the world duly intervenes, and a peacekeeping force is sent in,
paralyzing the nation's ability to defend itself, and effectively
doing the militants' bidding even as attacks against the non-Muslim
population continue. Finally, imagine the intervening internationals
severing this nation's Jerusalem from it and handing it to the provocateurs.


It sounds like a worst-case scenario for the Israeli people, but it is a
fate that actually befell the Serbian people, who this year may lose
Kosovo as the deadline approaches for determining the status of the
province, where Christian churches, monasteries and homes were burned
to the ground in pogroms in March of last year. They will lose Kosovo to
Albanian Muslims, whose fates are now entirely in the hands of the
international Islamist factions with whom they, and we, cast their lot.

As a reprisal of last March looms on the horizon (Kosovo Prime Minister
Ramush Haradinaj stepped down when he was indicted for war crimes
last week, and the UN Mission in Kosovo was promptly bombed), the reticence
about butchered Serbian octogenarians, children and other
civilians--alternating with dismissal of these atrocities, even six years
later, as "revenge killings"--intimates that terrorized Serbs are an even
bigger yawn than terrorized Israelis. That's why I am calling upon my fellow
Jews to break their own conspicuous silence.

In the six years since our bizarre bombing of Belgrade to prevent a genocide
that forensics turned up empty (a memo that apparently made it
only to European and Canadian presses, leaving a gaping hole in our national
dialogue), the sense of something not being said grows
palpable. With every explosive report coming from the Balkans--Islamic
charities getting busted as terror-funding fronts, terrorist cells being
uncovered in Bosnia and Kosovo, explosions on Pristina's Bill Clinton
Avenue, then last year's coordinated Albanian riots that injured 900,
killed 19 Serbs and tried to drive out what was left of Kosovo's
non-Albanian population--more and more people have started to think it, but
who has the poor taste to say it?

After all, we were told that a genocide was in progress. We were told of
mass graves. A hundred thousand killed and 800,000 displaced, Bill
Clinton said.

Soon after the U.S.-led NATO invasion, the 100,000 figure turned out to be
closer to 2,000 and included armed Albanian and Serb fighters. "No
Bodies at Rumored Grave Site in Kosovo," read a ******* headline as early as
October '99, above an article reporting the results of an
excavation by international war crimes investigators to check the rumors
that Serbs had hidden up to 700 Albanian bodies in a lead and zinc
mine. Other "mass graves" turned up empty or hardly massive, and the Racak
massacre, the feather that was used to break the NATO camel's
back, turned out to have been staged, according to three forensics teams
sent in to investigate--but only after the first team, headed by
Finland's Helena Ranta, initially gave a thumbs-up to "massacre" so that the
bombing campaign could commence. (Two years and thousands
of lives later, Ranta's final report confirmed the opposite conclusion.)

Sold on a Holocaust scenario, the American people couldn't have known what
sinister deal they'd signed on to. But my fellow Jews should
have smelled a rat. And to my profound disappointment, in the face of a
stunning parallel to the Palestinian propaganda war that Jews
themselves struggle with, for the most part they have been silent since.

As journalists fanned the early flames of Serb demonization in Bosnia,
starting with a widely circulated 1992 photo of a Serb-run "death camp"
for Bosnian Muslims that turned out to have been taken from the inside of a
fenced storage area, and showed refugees who had escaped the
fighting and were free to go at any time, it should have raised some red
flags among my tribe--even if only after the fact. After all, what Jew
can forget the NY Times photo from a 2000 riot in Jerusalem, showing an
Israeli soldier standing over a bloody young man-the caption
identifying the scene as an Israeli policeman and a Palestinian? It
subsequently came to bear that the bloody "Palestinian" was a Chicago
Yeshiva student who had just been beaten by Palestinians. One need only say
the word "Jenin" to a Jew for him to recall the vision of
Palestinians digging up old graves to increase the body count there.

But just as Palestinians have been a step ahead of Israelis when it comes to
PR, so were Balkan Muslims a step ahead of Serb Christians.
Such that when, early on, it came to winning American-Jewish empathy, the
Albanian Kosovars were victorious over the Serbs.

A 1994 article in a monthly Jewish publication called "Midstream," which
caught on early, cites an interview between a French journalist
named Jacques Merlino and James Harff, of the D.C.-based PR firm Ruder &
Finn, which was representing Croatia, Bosnia and the Kosovo
Liberation Army. After boasting about having set up meetings between Bosnian
officials and Al Gore, George Mitchell, Bob Dole and other
politicians, Harff described the achievement he was most proud of: "To have
managed to put Jewish opinion on our side.At the beginning of
August 1992, 'New York Newsday' came out with the affair of [Serb]
concentration camps. We jumped at the opportunity immediately. We
outwitted three big Jewish organizations--B'nai B'rith, Anti-Defamation
League, the American Jewish Committee, and the American Jewish
Congress. We suggested to them to publish an advertisement in the 'New York
Times' and to organize demonstrations outside the United
Nations. That was a tremendous coup. When the Jewish organizations entered
the game on the side of the Bosnians, we could promptly
equate the Serbs with the Nazis in the public mind."

It was a sneak PR attack, and the Serbs were out-sassed. If anyone should
have looked deeper into the story being peddled, it was the
Jewish community-who ask that people do their homework before making rash
judgments about Israeli operations in the Palestinian
territories and siding with the visibly more pathetic side. But the magic
"genocide" wand was waved, and organized Jewry fell into its
autopilot never-again trance.

It's all the more tragic considering the historical relationship between
Jews and Serbs, both of whom were persecuted by the Nazis' Croatian,
Bosnian and Albanian brigades during WWII. In 1999, under pressure from the
U.S. and amid protest from Israelis who knew better, Israel
joined NATO's war against Yugoslavia, leaving Serbs stunned and angry in an
era when most of Europe was already being engulfed by a new
wave anti-Semitism. Today, whatever Jews remained in Kosovo before our
intervention have been cleansed right along with the Serbs.

And yet last March 18th, the second day of renewed Serb cleansing, the House
of Representatives was treated to the following resolution on
Kosovo by Congressman Eliot Engel (D, NY), who chairs the Albanian Issues
Caucus: "When there is no resolution of the final status, the
people in a country become restless.Right now there is rampant unemployment.
Right now there is very little hope for a
future.Self-determination and, ultimately, independence for the people of
Kosovo is the only solution.What we have seen.is this ridiculous
plan called standards before status.We put forward benchmarks and we tell
the people of Kosovo they have to achieve these benchmarks
before we can even look at a resolution and at self-determination."

The speech easily could be mistaken for one that makes the case for
immediate Palestinian statehood as a way to end "understandable"
violence against Israelis. The irony of it coming from a pro-Israel Jewish
congressman is too thick for comment, and yet it got thicker when in
his closing thoughts Engel employed the penultimate moral-equivalence
phrase that Jews find so maddening in reference to Israel: "The
ethnic violence which happened yesterday is a tragic undertaking, a tragic
tragedy, and I must call on both sides to stop the violence."

Especially in light of the millions of Christians who today stand with
Israel as it fights for the right to defend itself, too few Jews have stood
up for the Serb Christians. No, the Serbs are not the Jews. Not every
nation, when provoked, plays as tenderly as Israel, whose teen soldiers
risk their lives going door to door to pluck the one or two actual
terrorists out of a household of complicit family members.

A 2000 documentary on England's BBC2 showed an interview with KLA leader
Hashim Thaci, in which he admitted, "We knew full well that any
armed action we undertook would trigger a ruthless retaliation by Serbs
against our people. We knew we were endangering civilian lives, too,
a great number of lives." There was also a sound bite from a Kosovo Albanian
negotiator named Doug Gorani: "The more civilians were killed,
the chances of international intervention became bigger, and the KLA of
course realized that."

Had we not been looking for mini Holocausts under every bed, had we not
responded like Pavlovian dogs when hearing that a modern-day
Holocaust was under way in Europe's underbelly, we could have seen through
the hoax, as well as what it portended for Israel.

Instead, cover articles ran in Jewish newspapers across America, such as the
one in the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles that began,
"With echoes of the Holocaust and pogroms haunting a collective conscience,
the Jewish community in Los Angeles has mobilized forces to
come to the aid of Kosovar refugees left homeless and hungry by Serbian
President Slobodan Milosevic." A full-page ad read: "OUR HELPING
HAND EXTENDS ALL THE WAY TO KOSOVO," and the small print informed readers
that the Jewish Federation of Los Angeles had made a
donation of $50,000 to the Kosovo Refugee Relief Fund of the American Jewish
Joint Distribution Committee.

Only when turning to the letters page did one encounter a dissenting voice.
It belonged to self-described researcher and writer Paul Stonehill,
who compared the one-sided press coverage to that directed against Israel:
"I am sad that because of our misguided policy yet another
radical Moslem state will appear in Europe. I am sad that the Serbs, who
stood up to the Nazis like very few other people did during the war
are bombed by the grandchildren of the Allies. And I am ashamed that some
Jews have such selective memory."

In 1999 this selective memory afflicted both the ADL's Abe Foxman ("We're
glad that we're doing now what we weren't doing then [WWII]"),
and Elie Wiesel, who approved of bombing Yugoslavia when instead the 1941
words of Adolf Hitler should have been echoing through his
head: "As soon as sufficient forces are available and the weather allows,
the ground installations of the Yugoslav Air Force and the City of
Belgrade will be destroyed from the air by continual day and night
bombardment. When that is completed we will subdue Yugoslavia."

Sure enough, within weeks of our offensive, Prince Khaled Bin Sultan,
commander of the allied Saudi troops during the first Gulf War, called
on NATO and the U.S. to extend its "honorable actions" in Kosovo to
Palestine. A few years later, when Kofi Annan sent Helena Ranta to look
for evidence of massacre in Jenin, karma came calling. Israel's external
adviser on the Jenin inquiry, Cambridge University international legal
expert Daniel Bethlehem, warned then, "If the committee's findings uphold
the allegations against Israel--even on poor reasoning--this.may
make it impossible for Israel to resist calls for an international force,
the immediate establishment of a Palestinian state and the prosecution
of individuals said to have committed the alleged acts."

When, during Wesley Clark's clumsy yet merciless 78-day bombardment of the
Orthodox Christian Serbs, which didn't break even for Easter
(the way our other bombardments have for Ramadan), the possibility of a
precedent for Israel was made clear to then Foreign Minister Ariel
Sharon by an Italian ambassador, he asked American Jewish leaders to call
for an end to the bombardment against Yugoslavia, citing that the
KLA was backed by Iran-backed terror outfits and that an independent Kosovo
would be a gateway for the spread of terror throughout Europe.

Whether such an organized Jewish voice emerged is unclear; if it did, it was
done quietly, to save face. What has begun to take form since is
a humanitarian concern for the remaining Serbs of Kosovo. But its language
has been meticulously woven, so as not to backpedal too
obviously on our overzealous enforcement of a cheap morality.

But we Jews at least should be trying to set the record straight. Though
they were late in coming, entire organizations are devoted to
debunking the Muslim-spun mythology against Israel that so many in the media
dutifully report. The Serbs have no such face to the outside
world, and so they do not get their slice of human sympathy. Nor did the
Serbs think to buy clout in the halls of power via lobbyists in the
U.S. Congress, where the Albanians, Croatians and Bosnians have been buying
influence for decades, from the likes of Bob Dole, John McCain,
Joe Lieberman, Tom Lantos, Joe Biden, Jesse Helms and Benjamin Gillman, to
name just a few. Like the Israelis had for a long time, the
Serbs--busy fighting radicals--assumed the ability of the world to see right
from wrong, up from down, truth from lie, and didn't realize they
were supposed to be fighting a simultaneous image war. Today, amid a
sustained media blackout on the subject of our little 1999 war that
has been quietly backfiring and still offers no hint of an exit strategy,
Serbian-Americans and others who understand our miscalculation are
left feverishly writing letters to editors in response to the many articles
that get the Balkans wrong, in a futile attempt to inform the public.

Today, Serbia is the only remaining pocket of multi-ethnicity in the
Balkans--where Serbs, gypsies, Jews, Albanian and other Muslims, along
with 22 other nationalities still coexist. In fact, when trouble started,
many Albanians fled to Belgrade--just as Bosnian Muslims had before
them. It's not unlike the situation of that "racist" state of the Middle
East, Israel, with its one million Arab citizens standing in contrast to the

surrounding Jew-cleansed Arab lands.

The trial of Slobodan Milosevic at the Hague, meanwhile, was billed as no
less than Nuremberg 2. Yet we hear virtually nothing about it.
Where are the day-to-day reports of this momentous historical event,
dispatches from which should have Americans lining up at the
newsstands and scouring their papers for the latest developments? And
wouldn't the biggest trial since Nuremberg at least warrant some
punditry?

When one considers also that, more than a year into the trial, the court
finally relented from its own one-sidedness and decided it would start
trying non-Serbs for war crimes against Serbs as well, the Nuremberg analogy
falls apart like a bad joke. How many Jews do we recall being
prosecuted at the Nuremberg Trials? And as the Chicago Tribune pointed out
on the first anniversary of Milosevic's trial, Nuremberg took only
11 months "to try, convict, sentence and hang 10 of Adolf Hitler's top
lieutenants." The Milosevic trial is now in its fourth year.

If, as we were told, there was systematic rape by Serbs, where are the
resulting children? Or evidence of mass abortions? Jewish women had
Nazi babies, and at Nuremberg there was plenty of testimony and plenty of
evidence. So far at the Hague, there has been only testimony
(much of which falls apart under cross-examination), and virtually no
evidence. Such that the court has had to redefine the very word
"genocide"--to at least make it fit what happened in Bosnia after it was
unable to make it fit Kosovo. ("War crimes case widens 'genocide,'"
BBC.com, April 19, 2004). Hence we arrive at a state of affairs wherein the
UN declares 70,000 dead men, women and children in Darfur to not
be genocide, but 7,000 dead Bosnian males in the UN "safe haven"
Srebrenica--used as a staging ground for attacks on Serbs--is.

While Byzantine art exhibits at New York museums were humming last year,
900-year-old Serb churches, cathedrals and monasteries in
Kosovo were being systematically bombed, burned, looted, and urinated on in
a single week. The pogroms had been set off by a rumor, later
confirmed false by NATO, that Serbs had drowned some Albanian youths. By the
end of March, 366 homes and 41 churches were destroyed,
according to an AP report, which quoted 23 year-old Ruzhdi Krasniqi, who
"smoked a cigarette as he assessed the damage and said he felt
'OK' about [it]. 'I don't want the Serbs to return here,' he said. 'They've
got no place here.'"

In response to the violence, Kosovo President Ibrahim Rugova told an Italian
newspaper, "Everyone realizes by now that it is clear that
independence from Serbia is vital for Kosovo and its inhabitants."

Though he is a moderate and has had at least two attempts on his life
because of it, Rugova seems to have followed the Arafat model:
Accept the infidel's (the West's) help for as long as it moves you closer to
your goal. When you hit the inevitable brick wall with the infidel
and he ceases to further your agenda, revert to traditional methods and
allow violence to engulf the region, turning your guns against the
helpful infidel if necessary. Then propose independence as the only possible
solution.

Independence, of course, would mean withdrawing UN peacekeepers. As
Balkan-based journalist Chris Deliso wrote last year for
BalkanAnalysis.com, "Even though they are inept.the UN contingents cannot be
replaced by local enforcers without serious repercussions for
Europe and America. With no foreign eyes and ears on the ground, pretty much
anything can happen..terrorists abroad look for safe havens in
states with little or no central control.Kosovo--with its porous borders,
fundamentalist minority, criminal underbelly and proximity to the rest
of Europe--is a perfect hiding place." He concludes, "With successes like
that, who needs failures?"

But Americans don't see how Kosovo relates to them. Until 1999, who had ever
even heard of a Serb? It was neither an enemy nor a
significant international player. So this people and what happened to their
country do not occupy any coherent place in the American psyche.

Without being innocent, a people can still be scapegoated and a falsified
history go down in the books. Serbs have apologized repeatedly for
the heavy hand that Belgrade wielded in responding to the ethnic cleansing
of Serbs in Kosovo and Bosnia. They have admitted they are not
innocent, while the instigators themselves admit nothing, continue crying
out against past Serb crimes, and kill with abandon.

That the Serbs haven't been innocent cannot continue to be used to
mischaracterize the Balkan conflicts and our actions there. Starting with a
mistaken premise and working backwards to prove it, then devolving into
moral equivalence when it doesn't work must stop. A reevaluation
must begin. Whether it does or not, history's reckoning will come, such that
after an air war against a fictitious enemy, we may have to fight
a ground war against the real one.

The world stood by while one-third of its Jews were exterminated last
century. This century, the Jews stand by idly with the world as a
people's history is erased. Serbia is reviled, for like Israel, it had the
poor taste to not wait for 9/11 to start the resistance against a common
enemy.

That's why, in sounding the call for Serb rehabilitation, I apply a double
standard to my fellow Jews. They should be used to it. The Serbs are.

Mr Gently Benevolent
03-21-2005, 05:01 PM
This century, the Jews stand by idly with the world as a
people's history is erased. Serbia is reviled, for like Israel, it had the
poor taste to not wait for 9/11 to start the resistance against a common
enemy.Another weak Serbian rant trying to justify their people as landfill policy.

Frank Discussion
03-21-2005, 05:26 PM
Another weak Serbian rant trying to justify their people as landfill policy.

Another weak attempt at a rebuttal that actually doesn't address even a single issue the article raised.

nagant_m44
03-21-2005, 07:54 PM
This century, the Jews stand by idly with the world as a
people's history is erased. Serbia is reviled, for like Israel, it had the
poor taste to not wait for 9/11 to start the resistance against a common
enemy.Another weak Serbian rant trying to justify their people as landfill policy.

Very intelligent "rebuttal". It was written by a JEW. How could it be a Serbian rant?? Why don't you do something other then believing everything the BBC tells you?

nagant_m44
03-21-2005, 08:05 PM
All i can say is

živio Srbija!!!

alexz
03-21-2005, 08:14 PM
RSK, why are you looking to us (Israelis) to help you bring the truth
out to the world when we did such a horoble job convincing the world
that blowing up Jewish children is even a crime. Europe is against
you (and us) as long as they need oil and the price is to brown nose terrorist and dictators. This is the price they ar more then willing to pay and nothing will change that.
When i saw how the truth turned to lie and lies to truth on the BBC and CNN during the Kosovo war; i feared it will happen to Israel and saddly i was right. Some Israelis like current PM Arik Sharon did see danger and weren't affraid to voice his opinion.

http://www.serbia-info.com/news/1999-04/06/10570.html

Israelis will never forget the Serbian fight against the Nazis and their
puppets.

Mr Gently Benevolent
03-22-2005, 01:20 AM
Israelis will never forget the Serbian fight against the Nazis and their
puppets.So why did they help the Bosian Muslims during the confict was it because they saw the Serbs efforts at genocide a miiror image of the Nazi's genocide of the the Jewish people?

Scagel
03-22-2005, 01:47 AM
Israelis will never forget the Serbian fight against the Nazis and their
puppets.So why did they help the Bosian Muslims during the confict was it because they saw the Serbs efforts at genocide a miiror image of the Nazi's genocide of the the Jewish people?

They (Israelis) were on both sides as volunteers during the conflict. Some were angry at the mistreatment of Jews by the various muslim population.

Lokos
03-22-2005, 02:06 AM
The Israeli government in 1991-1995 was probably the only one in the world that did not condemn Serbian actions during the war. Make of that what you will.

Lokos

PS. Good article, RSK. The parallels between Kosovo and the situation slowly building up in Israel are striking, indeed.

ramy
03-22-2005, 03:40 AM
man all these balkans threads end up .. well you know.... :|

sp2c
03-22-2005, 03:53 AM
the world did not intervene with peacekeepers because you were fighting terrorists but because you were murdering one village a day in the hope that it would keep NATO away

but it didn't

Rantanplan
03-22-2005, 03:58 AM
Serbien muss sterbien

promillo
03-22-2005, 04:19 AM
This article is complete rubbish.

How incompetent (or communist?) someone has to be, to compare the struggle of Israel for survival with the genocide committed by serbian communists?

The serbs invaded almost every neighbour, it had nothing to do with terrorism, it was a communist attack against the neighbour, who wanted to install democratic systems.

Shame on the writer, she spits on the honour of Israel by comparing it with a mass-murdering communist warlord regime.

AN_TPS_63A
03-22-2005, 05:29 AM
Serbien muss sterbien

Speak english, or die!!!! :>

AN_TPS_63A
03-22-2005, 05:33 AM
This article is complete rubbish.

How incompetent (or communist?) someone has to be, to compare the struggle of Israel for survival with the genocide committed by serbian communists?

The serbs invaded almost every neighbour, it had nothing to do with terrorism, it was a communist attack against the neighbour, who wanted to install democratic systems.

Shame on the writer, she spits on the honour of Israel by comparing it with a mass-murdering communist warlord regime.

Yeah, exactly what one of my neighbours said when serbia elected milosevic. She said Oh, my god - now the whole ****ing world will suport croatians and others beacouse we will be considered communist!!!

AN_TPS_63A
03-22-2005, 05:39 AM
This article is complete rubbish.

How incompetent (or communist?) someone has to be, to compare the struggle of Israel for survival with the genocide committed by serbian communists?

The serbs invaded almost every neighbour, it had nothing to do with terrorism, it was a communist attack against the neighbour, who wanted to install democratic systems.

Shame on the writer, she spits on the honour of Israel by comparing it with a mass-murdering communist warlord regime.

Yeah, exactly what one of my neighbours said when serbia elected milosevic. She said Oh, my god - now the whole ****ing world will suport croatians and others beacouse we will be considered communist!!!

promillo
03-22-2005, 07:42 AM
This article is complete rubbish.

How incompetent (or communist?) someone has to be, to compare the struggle of Israel for survival with the genocide committed by serbian communists?

The serbs invaded almost every neighbour, it had nothing to do with terrorism, it was a communist attack against the neighbour, who wanted to install democratic systems.

Shame on the writer, she spits on the honour of Israel by comparing it with a mass-murdering communist warlord regime.

Yeah, exactly what one of my neighbours said when serbia elected milosevic. She said Oh, my god - now the whole f*** world will suport croatians and others beacouse we will be considered communist!!!

If Milosewich did not had started his war of aggression and genocide, nobody would have cared about Croatia and others.
In fact Europe didnt cared, even as the slaugther went on for more than 10 years! Even as the serb soldateska killed some EU- observers, Europe looked away and ignored Milosewich.
The eurowusies claimed to let the "conflict bleed out".
It was the pressure of the USA who stopped the serbian aggression and communist killergangs.

But back to topic
To compare milosewichs crimes with israels self defense is just bull****.
Israel neither ommits warcrimes, does ethnic "cleansing" nor does it starts aggressions against every neighbour in vincity.
Serbia did.

Those who ignore those facts spit on israel and are not better than antisemitic scumbags who lie about israel too.

Metak
03-22-2005, 08:49 AM
Serbia didnt't start aggression on anybody, those were local Serbs which have rebeled against severe discrimination in newly formed indenpendent states. The reason why so many Serbs have lived in other republics of Yugoslavia is because those areas with Serb population belonged to Serbia once but communists ignored that fact and they simply made new border lines giving those areas to other republics.
First shots in Slovenia were fired by Slovenian defence on Yugoslav Army, in Bosnia Bosnian Muslim Ramiz Delalic aka Celo fired first shots on Serbian wedding party in Sarajevo, I'm not sure about Croatia, but here is background:
Serbs have lived in the Krajina (Northern Dalmatia, Lika, Kordun, Banija, and Slavonia) since their ancestors settled these territories few hundreds years ago. After hearing of Croatia's intention to hold a referendum to vote on secession from Yugoslavia, Serbs in these territories conducted their own referendum in May 1991. They voted to remain in Yugoslavia if Croatia voted to secede from it. The referendum was not acknowledged as legitimate by the Croatian government, yet Croatia demanded that its own referendum on secession, held several days later, be recognized by the Yugoslav federal government.
Soon after Croatia declared its independence on June 25, 1991, Krajina Serbs were subjected to harsh discrimination by the Croatian government: they began to lose their jobs, their houses were destroyed, their political and cultural rights abrogated, and their national identity threatened. When in the summer of 1991 the Croatian armed forces began to threaten them, the Serb population either fled to Serbia or took up arms in self-defense. These Krajina Serbs are the children and grandchildren of the Serbs in Croatia that had been systematically persecuted and massacred by the Croat Ustashas and Muslim extremists in World War 2. Confronted with the extreme aggressiveness of the Croatian state and population, the Krajina Serbs were now rising to their self- defense under the motto: "Never Again."

I see that propaganda has achieved it's goal - Serbs are shown as monsters while nobody cares about great number of civilian casualities in Avganistan, Iraq, among Palestinians, Serbs etc... Yes, Serbs did some crimes, also some civilians were killed accidentaly, but unfortunately everey army do that in every war, difference is that western crimes are presented as "collateral damage during fight for freedom and democracy" while others like Serbian are presented as "genocide".

Javehn
03-22-2005, 08:53 AM
To touch this topic with a 10 metter pole or not ? :lol:
No , hell no .

promillo
03-22-2005, 09:00 AM
Metak, I am bored of your serbian Gleiwitz-myths.

It was serbia that assaulte every neighbour.
It was serbia that started the discriminations, the ethnic cleansings an the genocides around the balcan.
f** you and your lies!

:bash:

sp2c
03-22-2005, 09:01 AM
To touch this topic with a 10 metter pole or not ? :lol:
No , hell no .
are you sure?

http://i134.exs.cx/img134/945/10feetpole0aa.jpg

you know you want to :bash:

Haiw
03-22-2005, 09:04 AM
Metak, I am bored of your serbian Gleiwitz-myths.

It was serbia that assaulte every neighbour.
It was serbia that started the discriminations, the ethnic cleansings an the genocides around the balcan.
f** you and your lies!

:bash:
Sweet... now we're gonna have a forum-reenactment of that scene from 'No Mans Land' where they're both blaming eachothers countries for starting the war. :lol:

km5
03-22-2005, 09:09 AM
Serbia needs to get some vowels.

Freibier
03-22-2005, 09:10 AM
Serbien muss sterbien
x2

Lokos
03-22-2005, 09:52 AM
Serbien muss sterbien, eh? Luckily for me, I wasted two years' worth of weekly lessons to learn that hateful little language.

It wasn't worth the effort, just like most Germans are not worth the effort.

Lokos

Lokos
03-22-2005, 10:01 AM
In fact, I find it HILARIOUS how Germans are now heaping scorn on Serbs for *genocide*.

Who in the hell are you people to talk?

Being solely responsible for two of the most vicious wars in history as well as the near-destruction of a number of entire ethnic groups is supposed to give you some kind of moral leverage?

Go wallow in shame and self pity, Deutsche.

Lokos

sp2c
03-22-2005, 10:06 AM
It's not as if the Germans deny their own past so stfu :bash:

Frank Discussion
03-22-2005, 10:24 AM
In fact, I find it HILARIOUS how Germans are now heaping scorn on Serbs for *genocide*.

Who in the hell are you people to talk?

Being solely responsible for two of the most vicious wars in history as well as the near-destruction of a number of entire ethnic groups is supposed to give you some kind of moral leverage?

Go wallow in shame and self pity, Deutsche.

Lokos

"“A thousand years will pass and the guilt of Germany will not be
erased.” (Hans Frank prior to being hung at Nuremberg)

Nothing more to really say.

Mr Gently Benevolent
03-22-2005, 10:35 AM
Very intelligent "rebuttal". It was written by a JEW. How could it be a Serbian rant?? Why don't you do something other then believing everything the BBC tells you?Yeah another Lesser Serbia Ministry Of Truth journo put up job, anyways Jewish or not she clearly has sympathy with Serbia's past misdeeds. Now the surname Gorin what part of Europe is that one from. ;)

shadower
03-22-2005, 11:32 AM
Metak, I am bored of your serbian Gleiwitz-myths.

It was serbia that assaulte every neighbour.
It was serbia that started the discriminations, the ethnic cleansings an the genocides around the balcan.
f** you and your lies!

:bash:
B****hit I was there when **** started and when Croatian militia enforced with Albanian soldiers of fortune were attacking Serbian vilages.One happened to be couple of miles of vilage my father was born in.It was way before Krajina proclaimed independence.Blown up serbian houses in Zadar Sibenik Vodice Sisak Bjelovar and other cities and croatian police comming in night and killing entire families.100 000 Serbs refuge in Krajina area before december 1991 when Krajina proclaimed independence.I should not say I was Serb.The croatian soldiers were walking around with their huge as* bayonets and survivor knives and talking to children how many Serbs they killed(I was there with others and now I am thinking what if someone told I was Serb) going in Serbian held buisines and destroying and robbing them.Our Croatian neighbour gave us a rifle and told to my father if they come shoot them and take your family and run etc,...I don't want to tipe any more I am shuddering when I think about that.

promillo
03-22-2005, 11:39 AM
Of course there where atrocities on both sides. but Milosewich startet the wars because he wantet to create a communist greater serbia. This was the core problem.

Now it is solved and serbia itself is free now.
Accept your responsibility.

Metak
03-22-2005, 11:50 AM
Metak, I am bored of your serbian Gleiwitz-myths.

It was serbia that assaulte every neighbour.
It was serbia that started the discriminations, the ethnic cleansings an the genocides around the balcan.
f** you and your lies!

:bash:
Off topic
I knew that you will not trust me, I'm too weak to compete with CNN propaganda machine :lol: . Here are articles about NATO propaganda:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/apr1999/med-a02.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/lies-j18.shtml

shadower
03-22-2005, 11:58 AM
The war started because Serbs vanted autonomy and you guys didn't want to give it but came in in areas with Serb majoriti started taking bilingual signs(they were cirilic and latinic in Krajina before Croatian independence) of by the road started comming in Serbian vilages where Serbs make majority and oppening police stations where newer was one and changing language in schools with Serbian majority from Serbo-Croatian to Croatian only.ThenSerb youth started comming out and make barikades on the road to Knin and as I can remember they had hunting rifles at that time,army didnt give them M70 etc until they took it in the fall then army urged to them to return them wich they did and then they took them in winter again when Tudman send some more special police and then Plitvice hapened etc,... and there was no way back.

AN_TPS_63A
03-22-2005, 01:31 PM
Serbien muss sterbien, eh? Luckily for me, I wasted two years' worth of weekly lessons to learn that hateful little language.

It wasn't worth the effort, just like most Germans are not worth the effort.

Lokos

If the Goethe wasted time to learn serbian, why shouldn't we waste our time to learn german? My sister is profesor of german language :->
One idiot doesn't make nation :)))

AN_TPS_63A
03-22-2005, 01:38 PM
This article is complete rubbish.

How incompetent (or communist?) someone has to be, to compare the struggle of Israel for survival with the genocide committed by serbian communists?

The serbs invaded almost every neighbour, it had nothing to do with terrorism, it was a communist attack against the neighbour, who wanted to install democratic systems.

Shame on the writer, she spits on the honour of Israel by comparing it with a mass-murdering communist warlord regime.

Yeah, exactly what one of my neighbours said when serbia elected milosevic. She said Oh, my god - now the whole f*** world will suport croatians and others beacouse we will be considered communist!!!

If Milosewich did not had started his war of aggression and genocide, nobody would have cared about Croatia and others.
In fact Europe didnt cared, even as the slaugther went on for more than 10 years! Even as the serb soldateska killed some EU- observers, Europe looked away and ignored Milosewich.
The eurowusies claimed to let the "conflict bleed out".
It was the pressure of the USA who stopped the serbian aggression and communist killergangs.

But back to topic
To compare milosewichs crimes with israels self defense is just bull****.
Israel neither ommits warcrimes, does ethnic "cleansing" nor does it starts aggressions against every neighbour in vincity.
Serbia did.

Those who ignore those facts spit on israel and are not better than antisemitic scumbags who lie about israel too.


Well, doesn't treatment of palestinians in Israel is comparable to treatment of albanians of milosevic? I think building of the wall is great discrimination against palestinians. Walls are condemned to be failure - remember that ugly monster which divided berlin for forty years? Now it's only dust.

S'13
03-22-2005, 01:52 PM
I think building of the wall is great discrimination against palestinians. Walls are condemned to be failure - remember that ugly monster which divided berlin for forty years? Now it's only dust.

97% of what you refer to as a "wall" is actually a fence.

The Berlin wall was built by the Soviets in order to divide a nation (the Germans) while this barrier is being built to divide two different nations and to prevent terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians and keep the peace (thus allowing us to try and bring an end to the conflict).

Javehn
03-22-2005, 02:33 PM
I think building of the wall is great discrimination against palestinians. Walls are condemned to be failure - remember that ugly monster which divided berlin for forty years? Now it's only dust.

97% of what you refer to as a "wall" is actually a fence.

The Berlin wall was built by the Soviets in order to divide a nation (the Germans) while this barrier is being built to divide two different nations and to prevent terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians and keep the peace (thus allowing us to try and bring an end to the conflict).

Dude , my small advice . Don't come close to this topic with a twenty metters pole . The fall would be long and painfull ... :)

S'13
03-22-2005, 02:47 PM
I think building of the wall is great discrimination against palestinians. Walls are condemned to be failure - remember that ugly monster which divided berlin for forty years? Now it's only dust.

97% of what you refer to as a "wall" is actually a fence.

The Berlin wall was built by the Soviets in order to divide a nation (the Germans) while this barrier is being built to divide two different nations and to prevent terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians and keep the peace (thus allowing us to try and bring an end to the conflict).

Dude , my small advice . Don't come close to this topic with a twenty metters pole . The fall would be long and painfull ... :)

I agree... :P

alexz
03-22-2005, 09:25 PM
Troll 1 wrote
"They (Israelis) were on both sides as volunteers during the conflict."

Israelis fought side by side will Al Qaeda?
Another great product of the Mossad is behind 911 school of thought.

Troll 2 wrote
"The Israeli government in 1991-1995 was probably the only one in the
world that did not condemn Serbian actions during the war.
Make of that what you will. "

Condemning and mot doing nothing to help is what racist arrogant europe
does instead of saving innocent people. They condemn Rwanda and Bosnia
and they even condemn Sudan but do zero to help. Yet they have the balls
to call themselves "Moral Leaders".

Israel accepted Bosnian refugees and delivered aid and yes they also
condemned the attacks on civilians back in 93!

http://www.members.tripod.com/~UnconqueredBosnia/GIN16.html
Make of that what you will.

sierraone
03-23-2005, 09:45 AM
"They (Israelis) were on both sides as volunteers during the conflict."


..that is the first time I have ever heard of that.Is there anything anywhere documenting such a thing?

Mr Gently Benevolent
03-23-2005, 10:04 AM
"They (Israelis) were on both sides as volunteers during the conflict."


..that is the first time I have ever heard of that.Is there anything anywhere documenting such a thing?Yeah in the press around the time of the conflict but as far as I know they were Russians and others from the former CCCP who managed to gain Israeli passports. There was however rumours that Israeli Mil Int had been in the field as observers with the Bosnian Muslim forces, they were mostly interested in the Yugo and Russian military tech that was in use and had been supplied to both Eygpt and Syria so it was mostly MASINT and ELINT stuff.

Lokos
03-23-2005, 11:52 AM
AlexZ:

You failed to comprehend me. As a Serb, I appreciate the fact that the Israeli government was possibly the only one on the planet that did not condemn the cause of Republika Srpska out of hand.

Condemning attacks on civilians is one thing. Not condemning Republika Srpska as a reality because of wartime conduct on both sides is quite another, thankfully.

In other words; I was not insulting Israel in any shape, way or form.

Lokos

oldsoak
03-23-2005, 11:52 AM
S'funny....I heard a rumour to the extent that they also had a dalliance withthe Serbs - why ? - to observe techniques used to blunt NATO hi tech warfare ie to see limitations that NATO weaponry had. Probably total guff, but a damn good rumour all the same.

sierraone
03-23-2005, 11:58 AM
As a Serb, I appreciate the fact that the Israeli government was possibly the only one on the planet that did not condemn the cause of Republika Srpska out of hand.


excepting Russia and Greece of course..

Lokos
03-23-2005, 12:00 PM
I don't know about an 'alliance', but I wouldn't be surprised if they did observe on some level. For example, the Chinese were definitely there, looking at our camouflage efforts and misdirection methods. The Israelis probably just looked at the Allied AAR. *shrug*

Lokos

sierraone
03-23-2005, 07:11 PM
I heard a rumour to the extent that they also had a dalliance withthe Serbs - why ? - to observe techniques used to blunt NATO hi tech warfare ie to see limitations that NATO weaponry had. Probably total guff, but a damn good rumour all the same.

Lokos, 'dalliance' and 'alliance' are different things in english. I am not sure how to translate it exactly but means just have a look and a chat (eh oldsoak?)

bloddyaxe
03-23-2005, 07:32 PM
I am surprised how many islamic fundementalist terrorist sympathyzers are here on this forum sometimes...

oldsoak
03-24-2005, 06:40 AM
I heard a rumour to the extent that they also had a dalliance withthe Serbs - why ? - to observe techniques used to blunt NATO hi tech warfare ie to see limitations that NATO weaponry had. Probably total guff, but a damn good rumour all the same.

Lokos, 'dalliance' and 'alliance' are different things in english. I am not sure how to translate it exactly but means just have a look and a chat (eh oldsoak?)

- pretty close :) flirting would be another translation - with no real intention of taking it further :)

sierraone
03-24-2005, 06:43 AM
I heard a rumour to the extent that they also had a dalliance withthe Serbs - why ? - to observe techniques used to blunt NATO hi tech warfare ie to see limitations that NATO weaponry had. Probably total guff, but a damn good rumour all the same.

Lokos, 'dalliance' and 'alliance' are different things in english. I am not sure how to translate it exactly but means just have a look and a chat (eh oldsoak?)

- pretty close :) flirting would be another translation - with no real intention of taking it further :)

hehe and that is without looking it up in the dictionary! I am so happy. My cousin that lives in england says that the english people think foreigners speak better english than them!

oldsoak
03-24-2005, 06:59 AM
I heard a rumour to the extent that they also had a dalliance withthe Serbs - why ? - to observe techniques used to blunt NATO hi tech warfare ie to see limitations that NATO weaponry had. Probably total guff, but a damn good rumour all the same.

Lokos, 'dalliance' and 'alliance' are different things in english. I am not sure how to translate it exactly but means just have a look and a chat (eh oldsoak?)

- pretty close :) flirting would be another translation - with no real intention of taking it further :)

hehe and that is without looking it up in the dictionary! I am so happy. My cousin that lives in england says that the english people think foreigners speak better english than them!

-- true as well ! :oops: . I was in Caen the other day and their English was 100x beteer than my French !

vampireuk
03-24-2005, 08:04 AM
So both sides commit mass murder and they both try to deny it, well this has made my lunch break more entertaining.

Kaplanr
03-24-2005, 08:42 AM
You have an alliance with your wife.

It was a dalliance when she was your girlfriend.

RGRBOX
03-24-2005, 09:12 AM
This century, the Jews stand by idly with the world as a
people's history is erased. Serbia is reviled, for like Israel, it had the
poor taste to not wait for 9/11 to start the resistance against a common
enemy.Another weak Serbian rant trying to justify their people as landfill policy.

Very intelligent "rebuttal". It was written by a JEW. How could it be a Serbian rant?? Why don't you do something other then believing everything the BBC tells you?

You forgot CNN and FOX News... People need to get out there and get hte info themselves... Opinion TV News has got to go..