How is the German Armed Forces remembered?

[Brandon]

This may sound like a dumb question. Anyhow, is there many museums/historical landmarks devoted to the German armed forces? There is a lot of talk here in Canada that more has to be done to remember our fallen men and women over the years. I couldnt agree more. That just got me wondering how the German armed forces of the last century are remembered.

[Smintjes]

Well, not much over here in Belgium. There are German military cemetaries around Ieper, and I'm sure they are being tended. But there are, as far as I know, no German war memorials or monuments in Belgium.

Not surprising: they invaded our country twice in twenty five years. In my (tiny) village, two people were eliminated by the Germans because they were being accused of "subversive activities" One of them was shot by a sniper on the roof of the mayor's house. But thankfully, that Germany (or those Germanies) was (were) completely different from our neighbour now.

[army cadet_ngcsu]

I've been to a German aircraft meusum outside of Berlin. Most of the aircraft were strictly Cold War era and featured both East and West German aircraft. It made no mention of World War Two. However, they did have some displays that were World War 1 orientated.

[WARPIG]

I lived in Germany back in the late 80's. Then there was very little in the way of honoring german soldiers. There were a few places that were preserved like old prison camps and such. Many of Hitler's property was preserved and became US property. For instance, Hitler stadium was know as soldier's field when I went to High school in Nuernburg. American Army brats played American football and things in that stadium. My senior prom was at one of his villas and the opera house he attended was were my graduation was held. Imagine growing up in a pro-Hitler town and after the war seeing US Military families using all of Adolf's old stomping ground. (US military kids=black, white, asian, hispanic, jewish, christian, catholic, buddhist and a mixture of all.) US/UK controlled much of Lake Chimsea. (spelling?) That is where the Eagles' Nest is at. When I was there it was a multinational resort.
If there are any monuments or honors to German soldiers, it must be fairly recent. There weren't too many when I was there.

[Ichhabe]

Where I come from up in the north of Norway, we do remember them as those wou burned the entire County down, and sent the whole civilian population down south against their will.

[SOG]

ive often wondered about apsects of this. you always see vets on history channel syaing how germans were horrible, and they did this and that, from russian,french american etc. and ive noticed certain things like how the japanese and americans have mended certain spirits concerning pearl harbor and what not, ive always felt somewhat bad for german soldiers who did thier duty, but kind of like, the whole overall shell and german army is categorized in the same omniprescient evil boat.

i think it comes down to winners write history and losers hang thier heads on the side. i wouldnt want a memorial consecrating the ideal behind the german attacks but a memorial for lost souls at the least causes thought and rememberance. hiding everything in a black historic period or some dark hallway doesnt seem right.

[He219]

Where I come from up in the north of Norway, we do remember them as those wou burned the entire County down, and sent the whole civilian population down south against their will.
http://www.nuav.net/frontkjemper.jpg

About 15 000 Norwegians volunteered to the Wehrmacht or SS during the years 1940-1945. Quisling, however saw this as a rather disappointing number, as he had visions of about 50,000 proud Norwegian soldiers, but one should bear in mind that "only" 11,000 volunteered to serve with the Allies, mainly the British.

Of course, many that joined were convinced nationalists, and believed in its international movement. Most were members of the right wing Nationalist party in Norway, ”Nasjonal Samling” (NS-National Unity), and a few were recruits from the Norwegian SS.

However, a remarkable number of volunteers were amongst those who had fought the Germans during the invasion, and many were officers. Quisling gave orders on the 9th April 1940 that no NS member should participate in the armed resistance against the Germans, but most ignored this order, among them his own “Minister of Defence”, Maj. Ragnvald Hvoslef. However, small and inexperienced German forces as it turned out, conquered Norway with minor losses.
http://www.nuav.net/volunter.html

[Brandon]

ive often wondered about apsects of this. you always see vets on history channel syaing how germans were horrible, and they did this and that, from russian,french american etc. and ive noticed certain things like how the japanese and americans have mended certain spirits concerning pearl harbor and what not, ive always felt somewhat bad for german soldiers who did thier duty, but kind of like, the whole overall shell and german army is categorized in the same omniprescient evil boat.

i think it comes down to winners write history and losers hang thier heads on the side. i wouldnt want a memorial consecrating the ideal behind the german attacks but a memorial for lost souls at the least causes thought and rememberance. hiding everything in a black historic period or some dark hallway doesnt seem right.

I agree 100%. No one would want to build a museum supporting the Nazi ideas, but these guys died for what they believed in, for the most part anyways. Its a tough one.

[Ichhabe]

Where I come from up in the north of Norway, we do remember them as those wou burned the entire County down, and sent the whole civilian population down south against their will.
http://www.nuav.net/frontkjemper.jpg

About 15 000 Norwegians volunteered to the Wehrmacht or SS during the years 1940-1945. Quisling, however saw this as a rather disappointing number, as he had visions of about 50,000 proud Norwegian soldiers, but one should bear in mind that "only" 11,000 volunteered to serve with the Allies, mainly the British.

Of course, many that joined were convinced nationalists, and believed in its international movement. Most were members of the right wing Nationalist party in Norway, ”Nasjonal Samling” (NS-National Unity), and a few were recruits from the Norwegian SS.

However, a remarkable number of volunteers were amongst those who had fought the Germans during the invasion, and many were officers. Quisling gave orders on the 9th April 1940 that no NS member should participate in the armed resistance against the Germans, but most ignored this order, among them his own “Minister of Defence”, Maj. Ragnvald Hvoslef. However, small and inexperienced German forces as it turned out, conquered Norway with minor losses.
http://www.nuav.net/volunter.html

And your point being???

[Jack Mehoff]

Killing krauts in Call of Duty is my way of remembering them.

[KaraBenNemsi]

i think it comes down to winners write history and losers hang thier heads on the side.
i wouldnt want a memorial consecrating the ideal behind the german attacks but a memorial for lost souls at the least causes thought and rememberance. hiding everything in a black historic period or some dark hallway doesnt seem right.


I'm from rural, southern Germany. Here in 99% of all villages you can find memorials dedicated to the village's men who lost their lives in WW1 and WW2.
Nothing big, mostly slightly decorated stone plates with the soldiers' names engraved. Nevertheless pretty moving to see them in every town :(

[the_spec]

In germany, honoring the own fallen soldiers of WW2 is a little tricky, since certain groups and parties are quick to put everything into the "nazi drawer". For some people honoring the soldiers apparently equals praising the nazi regime. They are quick to spent millions on building holocaust memorials, which is alright, but memorials for fallen soldiers tend to be small, hidden away and generally not put much into the public's eye. Highest chances to finding such memorials are in smaller towns, on soldier cemetaries and the like. Especially with a social-democrat/green government there isn't much of general remembering of the fallen soldiers.
As said before, you always have to make a difference between the nazis and the plain foot soldier who just did his job and died for what he didn't know(which is of course not to be generalized too much).
Btw., I am from Germany.

[Jack Mehoff]

As said before, you always have to make a difference between the nazis and the plain foot soldier who just did his job and died for what he didn't know(which is of course not to be generalized too much).
Btw., I am from Germany.

I agree. But killing nazis in Call of Duty is still fun p-)

[He219]

Ichhabe; it wasn't just Germans that were responsible for War Crimes in WWII.


http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/photos/large/c2888725A.jpg

President Reagan walking with General Matthew Ridgeway at Bitburg Cemetery, Federal Republic of Germany. 5/5/85.

Remarks at a Joint German-American Military Ceremony at Bitburg Air Base in the Federal Republic of Germany (http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1985/50585b.htm)

[Seoulstriker]

As said before, you always have to make a difference between the nazis and the plain foot soldier who just did his job and died for what he didn't know(which is of course not to be generalized too much).
Btw., I am from Germany.

I agree. But killing nazis in Call of Duty is still fun p-)

what was the point of Wolfenstein 3d and Return to Castle Wolfenstein about again? p-)

[the_spec]

But killing nazis in Call of Duty is still fun
Well, depending on the US gaming industry for good WW2 shooters, I can only agree there. Still would like to play a fallschirmjäger jumping into crete or being part of the mechanized forces charging into france, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

it wasn't just Germans that were responsible for War Crimes in WWII.

True, but it's mostly up to the individual to discover that truth.

[SOG]

snip, sorry double post.

[SOG]

Where I come from up in the north of Norway, we do remember them as those wou burned the entire County down, and sent the whole civilian population down south against their will.
http://www.nuav.net/frontkjemper.jpg

About 15 000 Norwegians volunteered to the Wehrmacht or SS during the years 1940-1945. Quisling, however saw this as a rather disappointing number, as he had visions of about 50,000 proud Norwegian soldiers, but one should bear in mind that "only" 11,000 volunteered to serve with the Allies, mainly the British.

Of course, many that joined were convinced nationalists, and believed in its international movement. Most were members of the right wing Nationalist party in Norway, ”Nasjonal Samling” (NS-National Unity), and a few were recruits from the Norwegian SS.

However, a remarkable number of volunteers were amongst those who had fought the Germans during the invasion, and many were officers. Quisling gave orders on the 9th April 1940 that no NS member should participate in the armed resistance against the Germans, but most ignored this order, among them his own “Minister of Defence”, Maj. Ragnvald Hvoslef. However, small and inexperienced German forces as it turned out, conquered Norway with minor losses.
http://www.nuav.net/volunter.html

that was more or less do due to himler seducing them through master race promises and searching out proud norweign blood to keep the SS pure and strong as himler was fantical in that research area. that whole area is so diverse in poltical beliefs and sway it was very easy to convince some to follow like minded parties for a well backed revolution.



I'm from rural, southern Germany. Here in 99% of all villages you can find memorials dedicated to the village's men who lost their lives in WW1 and WW2.
Nothing big, mostly slightly decorated stone plates with the soldiers' names engraved. Nevertheless pretty moving to see them in every town

glad to hear it.

[Ichhabe]

He219 said:


Ichhabe; it wasn't just Germans that were responsible for War Crimes in WWII.

Did I say that?

No.

The question was, How do we remember Germans from WW II. That what the question I answered.
Not how many Frontkjempere who partisipated on the German side. :bash: :bash:

[He219]

The question was, How do we remember Germans from WW II. That what the question I answered.
Not how many Frontkjempere who partisipated on the German side. :bash: :bash:

So participation of Norwegians on the German side bears no relevance to your impression of Germans as 'those who burned the entire County down'?

As you are quick to place blame, I find it interesting that you fault Germans while more Norwegians fought with Germany than for Britain.

I believe that we should respect those who fought on either side. War criminals are individuals, and not a collective race.

This (http://www.thirdreichruins.com/memorials.htm) is what KaraBenNemsi was talking about. Another location of mention is the memorial at Laboe (http://www.deutscher-marinebund.de/ehrenmal).

[aeternum]

Just a few:

Erwin Rommel Memorial, Herrlingen, Germany

Source: http://www.afrika-korps.de

http://www.afrika-korps.de/gallery/albums/album02/aad.sized.jpg

http://www.afrika-korps.de/gallery/albums/album02/aah.sized.jpg

http://www.afrika-korps.de/gallery/albums/album02/aak.sized.jpg

http://www.afrika-korps.de/gallery/albums/album61/aab.sized.jpg



Memorial in Ohlsdorf, Germany
http://homepages.compuserve.de/fmatth01/Ohlsdorf/gefallene_Soldaten1.jpg


Memorial Kolmeshoehe, Bitburg, Germany
http://bwpc08.fh-trier.de:8080/kuDb/servlet/bildAusgabe?aktSchluessel=2575&Nummer=1

Island Reichenau, Bodensee, Germany
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Baden-Wuerttemberg/insel_reichenau/Rei2.jpg
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Baden-Wuerttemberg/insel_reichenau/scholz.jpg

[aeternum]

Wiesbaden, Germany
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Hessen/wiesbaden/Wi1.jpg
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Hessen/wiesbaden/Wi2.jpg

[aeternum]

One from Estland:
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/europa/Estland/III.jpg

[aeternum]

Battleship Scharnhorst, Wilhelmshaven, Germany
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Niedersachsen/wilhelmshaven/ehrenfriedhof/scharnhorst2.jpg

Cruiser Lützow, Wilhelmshaven, Germany
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Niedersachsen/wilhelmshaven/ehrenfriedhof/luetzow2.jpg

Pocket Battleship Deutschland, Wilhelmshaven, Germany
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Niedersachsen/wilhelmshaven/ehrenfriedhof/luetzow1.jpg

Pocket Battleship Graf Spee, Wilhelmshaven, Germany
http://www.kriegerdenkmal.com/deutschland/Niedersachsen/wilhelmshaven/ehrenfriedhof/spee1.jpg

[He219]

The previous Rommel inscription, translated:

"At this spot on Oct. 14, 1944, General-Fieldmarshall Erwin Rommel was forced to take his own life! He took the poison vial and offered himself to save the life of his family from Hitler's wrath."


http://www.etravelphotos.com/html/2002eg/2002eg-039-14s-w.jpg
German War Memorial, El Alamein.

http://www.fallschirmjaeger-denkmal.de/G46.jpg
"Parachute Memorial (http://www.fallschirmjaeger-denkmal.de/B3eng.htm)" on Crete (http://www.gebirgsjaeger.4mg.com/kreta.htm)

[Red]

I know how the germans feel,after WWII there were a lot of blacks who fought heriocally in the war that were LYNCHED,but there were no memorials to them,or what about the men of the 99th fighter squadron who had an excellent record but were not really recognized untill clinton's era.Germans trust me i know how you feel.

[Brandon]

Thanks for all the references. Nice to see some tributes to the fallen Germans, as discreet as they may be.

[wulfstan]

There was mention here of another post i made some time ago, about there being a game where you play a soldier in say the Gross Deutschland Dvision or something. That would be cool, a whole new perspective, of course, there would be problems with the conclusion of the game, what would happen, storming Moscow and erecting the Swastika over the Soviet Parliament? Funny as it would be, but no would have the bollocks to do it.

Call of Duty, great game. But does anyone know what the 2nd disk is for? Or am i missing something here?