Video of the Kursk on the sea floor

[jdbjdb]

http://media.strana.ru/2001/07/03/994153794.ASF

[Guttorm]

Didin't they raise that thing yet?

[Kingpin]

Already lifted and scrapped.

[Skaman]

that was such a sad story.

[Kingpin]

that was such a sad story.

And still mysterious. Kursk sank because of explosion of own rocket . But why rocket exploded? Still no answer.

[Skaman]

that was such a sad story.

And still mysterious. Kursk sank because of explosion of own rocket . But why rocket exploded? Still no answer.

Perhaps a failed missle test or exercise?

Hey, you ever seen k-19 widowmaker?

[Kingpin]

Perhaps a failed missle test or exercise?

Hey, you ever seen k-19 widowmaker?

No, but i know whole story from original source - sailors of K-19 :)

Widowmaker is not 100% correct. It is incorrect in some very important issues.

As for Kursk. There was a version that missile exploded after sub collided with other submarine.

[Guttorm]

One insane Russin politician (Can't remember his name, but he's hilarious) claimd that a NORWEGIAN sub had chrashed with Kursk, and then headed back to norway...

I'd like to see the day one of our small tiny little sub's could chrash into a sub like kursk, and STILL be able to sail all the way back to norway. :D

[Kingpin]

One insane Russin politician (Can't remember his name, but he's hilarious) claimd that a NORWEGIAN sub had chrashed with Kursk, and then headed back to norway...

I'd like to see the day one of our small tiny little sub's could chrash into a sub like kursk, and STILL be able to sail all the way back to norway. :D

Size doesn't always matter. But i agree - sub should be rather big to survive so powerful explosion near by.

[He219]

At first the Russians blamed the Memphis for crashing into it, then they discovered the evidence of the torpedo detonation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1610000/images/_1614016_kursk300tv.jpghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1615000/images/_1617932_boat_300ap.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/10/27/kursk.inside/top.kursk.jpghttp://www.themoscowtimes.com/photos/small/2001_09/2001_09_05/kursk_1.jpg

[Kingpin]

At first the Russians blamed the Memphis for crashing into it, then they discovered the evidence of the torpedo detonation.



Now we can blame memphis for crashing into it causing torpedo detonation ;)

[DE_Six]

It is now officially acknowledged by Russian officials, leaking torpedo fuel caused the explosion in the torpedo room.
Sismographs around the regions recorded a series of explosion that rules out any collision with another vessel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2153484.stm

[JMooch]

"Widowmaker is not 100% correct. It is incorrect in some very important issues."

Oh, come on, you can't drop a bomb like that and not clarify....please!

S/F
Mooch

[jdbjdb]

The first torpedo exploded, they weren't able to put it out in time, then all the other torpedos exploded dooming the sub and crew, there were several suvivors in the back of the sub, but they died when a chemical that produces oxygen went up in flames. Russians had pictures of a sea port in Norway claiming that a sub there was the one that hit the Kursk.

[hahaha]

Leaking torpedo fuel was the reason. A number of German U-boats during WWII went down this way. The Germans were screwing around with 'heavy water' as a fuel, but am unsure what the Russians were using or have been using as a propellant.

[jdbjdb]

Russians used alcohol kerosene to power their torpedos. Of course it wasn't hit by a second sub.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/KURSK/gash2.gif

[Haiw]

it was a terrorist attack by Al-Qaeda!!

[Tane Angle]

I heard rumors that it was testing a self-cavitating torpedo, but no confirmation of that. Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[jdbjdb]

No doubt the Russians were doing something that they didn't want the International community to know about, thats why they waited on the rescue offers

[GazB]

Hmmm... a lot of very stupid rumours it seems are given more weight than they are worth.

First of all it wasn't a new torpedo design but one that has been in service and used safely for quite some time.

"And still mysterious. Kursk sank because of explosion of own rocket . But why rocket exploded? Still no answer."

Torpedo, not rocket.

"Perhaps a failed missle test or exercise? "

A missile was tested during the exercise but it was quite successful.

"At first the Russians blamed the Memphis for crashing into it, then they discovered the evidence of the torpedo detonation."

Some accuracy at last...

"It is now officially acknowledged by Russian officials, leaking torpedo fuel caused the explosion in the torpedo room."

Hooray getting very close though not strictly true yet.

"The first torpedo exploded, they weren't able to put it out in time, then all the other torpedos exploded dooming the sub and crew, there were several suvivors in the back of the sub, but they died when a chemical that produces oxygen went up in flames."

Very close too but still missing details and not strictly true.

"The Germans were screwing around with 'heavy water' as a fuel, but am unsure what the Russians were using or have been using as a propellant."

Hydrogen peroxide was used...

"Russians used alcohol kerosene to power their torpedos. "

Wrong.

"I heard rumors that it was testing a self-cavitating torpedo, but no confirmation of that. Have a good one, and just some thoughts..."

If you mean a rocket torpedo then no.

"No doubt the Russians were doing something that they didn't want the International community to know about, thats why they waited on the rescue offers"

No, actually more to do with they thought they could fix it alone, and the didn't want the british and americans sniffing around their very modern SSGN.

Anyway... to answer what happened you need to know how H2O2 or hydrogen peroxide (HTP) is used to power torpedos. HTP as it is known reacts fiercely with many metals like copper and silver. When contained in the right materials it is as dangerous as water... it won't burn and you can safely wash in it. HTP powered torpedos simply use a steam turbine engine and to generate the steam needed all you need is to bring HTP into contact with a metal it reacts with like a simple silver mesh. This generates huge amounts of heat and releases oxygen and water (the latter generally in the form of steam due to the temperature) as by products. The HTP torpedos had been in service for more than 30 years and have been used safely all this time. The problem arises that if you run them up inside a torpedo tube without flooding it first then there is no sea water to cool the outer shell of the torpedo and certain parts that need to remain cool. This can damage the internal piping... which can lead to leaking HTP inside the torpedo. Rather than generating heat and oxygen inside a purpose designed turbine engine this leads to heat and an abundance of oxygen inside the torpedo shell which is not designed for such pressures. In all likelyhood the torpedo in question exploded and blew oxygen into the torpedo room which presumably started numerous fires. These fires eventually leading to the detonation of the other torpedos stored there. Note that the first explosion would have been like a gas cannister exploding and did not involve the detonation of the torpedos warhead (which was probably between 200 and 400kg of HE depending upon the calibre). The kursk is a very large vessel with huge gaps between the inner and outer pressure hull. If the 24 heavy anti ship missiles it had been carrying had exploded then there wouldn't be much left at all (they had warheads of 500kg each and weight in at about 2 tonnes of kerosene and nitric acid).

[hahaha]

@ GazB - sorry but wasn't too sure what you were answering, were the germans using hydrogen peroxide as a propellant or answering what the russians were using ?
Thanks.

[Andyman]

I read an article in Maxim about the step by step events that led to the disaster. How can you have faith in a your military if they dont even provide you with the proper equipment? :(

[usa320]

How can you have faith in any military when you get your military information outta girlie magazines...

rofl

[springwheat]

No doubt the Russians were doing something that they didn't want the International community to know about, thats why they waited on the rescue offersIts usually more a combination of pride and an inherent secrecy within Russian leadership. The Russians lost a sub in the cold war that the US attempted to recover from the seafloor. The Russians never told the crew's families what had become of their servicemen. When the story was leaked, the Russians made an agreement with the US to sweep it under the rug before too many in Russia found out.

By the way, heavy water is a form of water that has 2 Deuterium atoms bonded to the oxygen atom. The purpose of heavy water is as a moderator in a fission reaction. The heavy water slows down the released neutrons and allows for a sustained chain reaction without the use of enriched fuel.

[Kingpin]

By the way, heavy water is a form of water that has 2 Deuterium atoms bonded to the oxygen atom. The purpose of heavy water is as a moderator in a fission reaction. The heavy water slows down the released neutrons and allows for a sustained chain reaction without the use of enriched fuel.

Thanks for helping in remembering my physics book :o)

[GazB]

"sorry but wasn't too sure what you were answering, were the germans using hydrogen peroxide as a propellant or answering what the russians were using ?"

The Germans tested many submarines powered by HTP, but none entered service. I believe they also tested HTP powered torpedos... I don't know if this work continued after WWII or not.

The British also tested an HTP powered torpedo and it blew up and damaged the sub enough to sink it, though as it was still tied up in port I think casualties were very low.

"How can you have faith in a your military if they dont even provide you with the proper equipment?"

They had all the right equipment... how many subs in the US navy would survive 22 torpedo detonations inside its torpedo room and still remain in one piece? (Russian subs are double hulled... in this case the distance between the two hulls was several metres and contained long range anti ship cruise missiles weighing over 4 tons each.)

The explosion was so violent that the rear escape hatch was damaged and wouldn't open... what else could have been done?

"The Russians never told the crew's families what had become of their servicemen. When the story was leaked, the Russians made an agreement with the US to sweep it under the rug before too many in Russia found out. "

Not true. Actually the CIA convinced Howard Hughes to raise a Golf class sub from the sea floor (violating international law) by using a very large ship (the Glomar explorer or something) that was custom designed to raise subs but officially tasked with dredging the sea bed for nodules of minerals like aluminium etc.

When they tried to raise the sub and it broke up with live nuclear missiles freefalling to the sea floor they only ended up with an unimportant part of the sub (they wanted the missiles and part of the launch system and codes, though soviet naval code books dissolve in sea water.)
They found body parts which were filmed and given a burial at sea... this video was presented to the Soviets in about 1990... more than 10 years after it was filmed.

[ST4]

I am glad that I dont have to serve in the Russian Navy. What a tragedy for those sailors. I couldn't even image being stuck on the sub when it was on the bottom of the sea, and dying when the oxygen ran out.