Russia condemns Warsaw

[volfram]

Russia Condemns Warsaw’s Decision to Name Square After Slain Chechen Leader Dudayev

Russia’s Foreign Ministry called the decision to name a square in Warsaw after the slain </mn-files/chechnya.shtml> </mn-files/chechnya.shtml>Chechen </mn-files/chechnya.shtml> separatist leader Dzhokhar Dudayev an insult to the memory of the victims of terrorist attacks.

“The decision of the Warsaw city council endorsing an initiative of deputies representing the party Law and Justice (PiS) and supported by the city president Lech Kaczynski… cannot but cause indignation,” the ministry’s statement quoted by Russian Information Agency Novosti read.

The ministry said this decision insults the memory of the Russian people, terror victims in Moscow and other Russian cities, and virtually supports international terrorism “one of the adherents of which in the North Caucasus was the leader of the Chechen separatists and national extremists killed nine years ago”.

The ministry noted that although the initiative belonged to the Polish opposition, it fit in a chain of “unfriendly steps towards our country as did recent statements by officials in Warsaw in connection with the killing of </mn-files/maskhadov.shtml> </mn-files/maskhadov.shtml>Aslan Maskhadov </mn-files/maskhadov.shtml>, the direct heir of Dudayev’s business”.

Dzhokhar Dudayev was the first president of Chechnya. Soon after being elected he claimed Chechen independence from Russia. This led to the first Chechen war. Dudayev was killed in April 1996.

Link:
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/03/21/warsawdudayev.shtml

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

WARNING! FLAME BAIT!

[Jani.R]

Buu ****ing huu, Russians are whining to everybody these days.

[b.scheller]

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller

[fdt]

Streets named after Dzokhar Dudayev are in 19 foreign (outside Russian Federation, where are none of course) cities of the World. AFAIR those cities are: Vilnius, Lviv, Riga and others. As staes the Vremya Novostei newspaper, this time reaction of Russian Foreign Affairs Dept was the strongest of all, what they connect with Polish reaction to Maskhadov's death.

http://www.vremya.ru/2005/49/4/121119.html


Появление фамилии Дудаева на карте Варшавы вызвало в российском внешнеполитическом ведомстве, пожалуй, наиболее резкую реакцию из всех 19 случаев, когда имя убитого российской ракетой чеченского президента присваивалось улицам и площадям зарубежных городов (ранее самыми болезненными для Москвы были решения властей Вильнюса, Риги и Львова). Возможно, потому, что решение сейма Варшавы совпало с нелицеприятными высказываниями польских дипломатов о действиях российских спецслужб, ликвидировавших 8 марта Аслана Масхадова.

As the same Vremya Novostei write below , Polish Foreign Affairs Dept realizing the Warsaw City Council's plans, has issued an official warning to the City Hall, that this move will not do any good for Polish Russian relationships. FYI: Polish Foreign Affairs Dept has no legal influence on such a decisions of any City Council in Poland.


МИД Польши отказался официально реагировать на эти обвинения. Министр иностранных дел Адам Ротфельд лишь изумился тону Москвы, пояснив, что Польша -- свободная страна и центральные власти не могут влиять на решение городского совета Варшавы, находящегося к тому же под контролем оппозиционной партии «Право и справедливость». Правда при этом польский МИД все же направил спикеру городского парламента Варшавы письмо, в котором предупредил, что появление в столице Польши площади имени Дудаева «не улучшит польско-российские отношения». А россиянам г-н Ротфельд намекнул, что раздувать скандал из-за этого факта, по его мнению, неразумно с точки зрения нормального развития добрососедских отношений.

Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland - Adam Rotfeld said Russians (unclear if to embassy or press??) that from the perspective of building normal relationship between neighbouring countries, blowing the whole scandal up is a mindless thing.

All I have to say as citizen of Poland, is that in this point I agree with Mr Rotfeld. regardless what I think of Chechen/Russian conflict, no city council should interfere with things that go (indirect way) beyond it's legal authority.

[volfram]

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.
What is wrong with that we dont want to have good relation with country who oppress other nation.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller

[volfram]

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.
What is wrong with that we dont want to have good relation with country who oppress other nation.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller

[volfram]

Wooops,again

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller
What is wrong with that we dont want to have good relation with country who oppress other nation.

[Werewolf01]

I can understand the Russian being pissed. The Poles might has well have named it after OBL. One terrorist is as good as another.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Wooops,again

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller
What is wrong with that we dont want to have good relation with country who oppress other nation.

rofl







:cantbeli:

[volfram]

Wooops,again

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller
What is wrong with that we dont want to have good relation with country who oppress other nation.

rofl







:cantbeli:
Wow,what a mature response.I am realy imppressed.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

btw. Moscow's administration decided to name a street near the Polish embassy after Mikhail Muravev, aka Veshatyel (the Hanger), Russian General-Governor of eastern Poland in XIXth century, known for his brutality :D

http://info.onet.pl/1072717,12,item.html

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Wow,what a mature response.I am realy imppressed.

Corresponding with your approach towards Polish diplomacy.

[M4ko]

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller

Man, funny thing is that im Russian and i only found out taht Poles hate Russia 3 years ago. So i woudlnt call it "each nation wants to take a punch at each other" - Poles started it and keeping at it. I personaly would just sway at them if they actualy try to turn their talk into actions. If not for the support by americans they would just go on with their lives just like any other ex soviet-block country. We never looked down at Poles before or after fall of communism.

[Serb Crusader]

Didn't Poland also raise a big fuss when the Russians killed Maskadov a couple weeks ago?

It seems Poland is doing everything it can to piss Russia off.

Russia should just invade Poland, lay siege to Warsaw, and drive out all Polish people out of Russia.

[perdurabo]

Pole's try so hard to upheave the Russian's. It's as if its a huge war between the two nations. Each one wants to get a punch at the other.

Although I understand the long implications and hurt that has been caused by the Soviet oppression and occupation of Poland throughout the years of communism. The two nations have to start, working together to create a better Europe.

I understand the Russian claim, considering the man did help organize terror, at the same time. The Russian's have supported terror throughout their existance. They were the ones who paid the Al-Fatah, and the Black September movements, the Red Army Factions. To this day they support roque states.

At the same time, the Pole's could possibly find a better name for a square. Their's alot of different personaliies, ancient or modern that deserve praise.

-b.scheller

Man, funny thing is that im Russian and i only found out taht Poles hate Russia 3 years ago. So i woudlnt call it "each nation wants to take a punch at each other" - Poles started it and keeping at it. I personaly would just sway at them if they actualy try to turn their talk into actions. If not for the support by americans they would just go on with their lives just like any other ex soviet-block country. We never looked down at Poles before or after fall of communism.
Poles hating Russians? hmm rather not true 90% of Poles don't give a **** about you guys and you don't give a **** about us and its fine
Poles hating Putin and russian goverment-YES!!
Me disliking Permski and RussianTexan -of course ;)
This thing was done by Kaczyński for publicity he wants to be president and elections are near so he needs atention and he is in opposition to curent goverment so he will do anything what is aginst goverment.
As for hating your goverment its because we see it as imperialistic one that wants to be superpower again we seen enough of your imperialism basicly from XVIII century till 1990 you where constant threat agressors and ocupants. But moust of Poles dont hate normal citizens of Russia we know that you are funny guys russian girls are very preaty etc....

[M4ko]

Dont run back all the way to 18th century, Poles actualy ruled Russia for a couple of days. If Poland was in same position as RUssia today im sure youd be on imperialistic path too. USA is an Empire why dont you hate them? If USSR was the winner of cold war and US was to fall economicaly youd be saying how cool that Russians were on our side.
ALthough i do understand how Poles feel to some extent, i still think that they are overdoing it a bit. Poland was always more of a western country and when Russians spread their influence into Poland that didnt mix too well, and was looked at as occupation of a foreign force. Well this is how i see it alteast.

[Herrmannek]

Dont run back all the way to 18th century, Poles actualy ruled Russia for a couple of days. If Poland was in same position as RUssia today im sure youd be on imperialistic path too. USA is an Empire why dont you hate them? If USSR was the winner of cold war and US was to fall economicaly youd be saying how cool that Russians were on our side.
ALthough i do understand how Poles feel to some extent, i still think that they are overdoing it a bit. Poland was always more of a western country and when Russians spread their influence into Poland that didnt mix too well, and was looked at as occupation of a foreign force. Well this is how i see it alteast.

Actualy we wouldn't be much on the russian side. just look at way we treat Germans and Frenchies. We are just proud nation with doesn't give a **** with whom we are picking a fight when we believe we are on the good side. Sometimes we win sometimes we loose, our geographic location and love to democracy(yup we have very long history of that, althoug for long time it was only for noblesman and when we've gaved vote rights to people we were teared apart, and that was a great kick for our national self-identification) doesn't help so we lost a little more times than won . Reason we like USA so much is that they present closest values to those we stand(and even Lemat will not agree on war in Iraq and etc things) he can't deny Polish and US society have much more in common than we have with Russians, Germans or Frenchies. Suming up if we would be imperialistic country we would be imperalists in USA way ratherthan in Brito, Franco or Russian way.

[BigBaribal]

Ok, just imagine if Russia government will call a boulevard in Moskau "Mohammed Atta's boulevard", do you think the US people will be happy about it.

[wholagun]

Didn't Poland also raise a big fuss when the Russians killed Maskadov a couple weeks ago?

It seems Poland is doing everything it can to piss Russia off.

Russia should just invade Poland, lay siege to Warsaw, and drive out all Polish people out of Russia.

more like kick Russians out of Poland. Why would Polish people go live in a poorer country, unless of course to make more money.

Now now, no need to get all hasty here and go on about razing Warsaw so soon. Good thing is though, we could learn from Serbian mistakes then Serbia got butt ****ed by NATO bombing campaign.

[wholagun]

edit

[Dima-RussianArms]

My opinion about Poland and Polish people definitely have changed since I started visiting this message board, I have learned a lot.
I'll do my best to educate as many as possible about what kind of people most of you are.

I still don't understand how nation so small can have so much hatred and poison inside of it.
I wish you weren't slavs, you don't deserve to be...


I also hope that the leaders of Russia will realize what the russians visiting this forum already know about the rest of the world and start living according to Peter the Great's saying: "Russia has only two friends - it's Army and Navy"...

So go ahead - boil in your hatred, spew your poison and spread the lies, the life will catch up with you and I hope to be there to do my part...

[RomanS]

TIME FOR

http://www.geocities.com/redcomrades/nkvd.jpg


MEMORIALS

[Dima-RussianArms]

TIME FOR

http://www.geocities.com/redcomrades/nkvd.jpg


MEMORIALS

I think it is a GREAT idea, if Baltic states have government sponsored SS veterans marches and open monuments for them, why don't we have NKVD and SMERSH veterans celebrations, sounds logical to me, I mean they fought for their country too...

[RomanS]

Totally Agree Dmitri!

We have our values too.

Put this on the border with those scum bags, 300 FT tall, with Red lights at night.


http://www.toysunlimited.nl/images/Alexei.jpg


And couple of big statues of


http://www.user.dccnet.com/russianfront/jpegs/New%20photos%202/stalinstatue.jpg

anyone from that site of the border tries to vandalize

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/ka-50-40p07.jpg

plain and simple

[Dima-RussianArms]

All of those monuments are great but after reading all the garbage posted by Poles here and in numerous other topics, I am kinda start wishing for an accidental launch of some multimegaton nuclear weapon that will fall on Poland.

[Argo AdAm]

My opinion about Poland and Polish people definitely have changed since I started visiting this message board, I have learned a lot.
I'll do my best to educate as many as possible about what kind of people most of you are.

I still don't understand how nation so small can have so much hatred and poison inside of it.
Are you trying to say that size of nation determinates how big hatred can be inside of it? Interesting point of view... Do you know any egxample of big nation who... ? :roll:



I wish you weren't slavs, you don't deserve to be...
Do you mean the slavs are something good by the definition and better than others and not everyone deserve to be one of them...? So maybe the slavs are those "more equal" among equals....?



I also hope that the leaders of Russia will realize what the russians visiting this forum already know about the rest of the world and start living according to Peter the Great's saying: "Russia has only two friends - it's Army and Navy"...

Yeah, you're right. The rest of the world and every single non-Russian in this universe (including aliens of course) is agaist you and wants destroy you. Your fear is reasonable.

Fortunately you seem to know that the best defence is an attack, so don't wait, destroy your enemy as quickly as it possible! Conquer the rest of the world!

"Fear leads to anger, and anger to hate, and hate to suffering" - Yoda

Your words show what kind of person you are
:cantbeli:


So go ahead - boil in your hatred, spew your poison and spread the lies, the life will catch up with you and I hope to be there to do my part...
:cantbeli:

Dear Dima, please stop seeing and judgening others acording to that you are and you think. You proved many times you have a qualifications to judge who hate more and less.

Again and again some brainwashed Russians and others write that all the Poles and Poland as a country have always hated Russians. Again and again Poles here have to explain that they don't feel in that way. It's boring.

All those times we were talking those negative words not about Russians as a people or nation but about your authorities and those of you who are blindly in love with them. We only think that your beloved Stalin and others comunist leaders including comrade Putin have done more wrong things than good, even not to other nations but Russians. When I find some your tsars, dictators and prresident stupid it doesn't mean I think the same about whole your nation. Every nation had in his history wrong men in charge. But the difference is that some people can realized and admit that and some others can't and prefer to think their whole nation have always been like an innocent child and everything was all right.

You seem to don't understand that or rather don't want to understand. Why do you prefer to think in very simply way? I know it's easier to live in stereotypes and black-white world but easier doesn't mean better.

BTW As for those decision about square's name, even in such country that have always "hate Russia" - Poland - media call it very controversial and many think that better would be if that name will be something like for egxample "chechen squar" without mention any concrete persons.

[Argo AdAm]

TIME FOR

http://www.geocities.com/redcomrades/nkvd.jpg

MEMORIALS
rofl
As a Pole who by the definition must to "hate Russians" I find it a great idea! Sometimes you show how wiseman you are. I'm impressed. It would be funny seeing how some Russians celebrate those who were the tools of regime that killed many others Russians....
:cantbeli:
Maybe it would be a good idea to place memorials for NKVD next to memorials for these who were killed by these service... if there are

I wonder how many innocent Russians were killed by these services? How many Russians POW's from German stalags finished in gulags or in the ground after WWII...? I wonder how many memorials for them could be in country where most of people still think that person responsible for deaths of these victims is the great man....

[wholagun]

hey man saying all Poles hate Russiasn is bull****. My parents love Russian people - they claim there can't exist friendly and kinder people on this planet.

You say you learned alot about Poles - same can be said about Russians. I have learned about about you guys too. Your bloody thirsty hate other countries right to democracy and self determination, and are out to screw over anyone that isn't Russian by controling them. Oh and you love to idealize ppl that of whom the very thought in the western world would make your head spin as result of the horros they have caused.

Us Western Slavs were always more democratic and western oriented then you guys - there is no denying that.

These tense relations would not exist if Russia did not screw us Poles over for so long. now you want us to praise you for 50 years of communism? Then you have Yalta, and Katyln - which you admitted to only after the cold war eneded. And you guys blame Polish fourmers for hating you?

I love what Stalin said " imposing communism on Poland is like putting a sadle on a cow" He knew we'd resist Soviet rule and he was right - we never liked it and were more then happy throwing it off in the 1980s

[Lokos]

Peter the Great killed many Russians. He is hailed as Russia's greatest ruler. The Russians do not judge their leaders based on how many Russians those leaders have killed, but how they have affected the nation as a whole. This is why Peter the Great, Ivan the Terrible and Stalin will be known as the greatest of Russia's rulers - they made Russia powerful.

This is also why Russia is and has been destined for greatness for centuries. They are a nation that sees past individual interest and instead opts for national interest. The Russian nation has withstood stresses that would have shattered others.

You may not see the logic in that, but I assure you, the Russians do.

Lokos

[Thor]

TIME FOR

http://www.geocities.com/redcomrades/nkvd.jpg


MEMORIALS

I think it is a GREAT idea, if Baltic states have government sponsored SS veterans marches and open monuments for them, why don't we have NKVD and SMERSH veterans celebrations, sounds logical to me, I mean they fought for their country too...
Well, what NKVD did was that they "convinced" ordinary russians to stay and fight instead of running away..


This is also why Russia is and has been destined for greatness for centuries. They are a nation that sees past individual interest and instead opts for national interest. The Russian nation has withstood stresses that would have shattered others.
Ok, let us know when Russia reaches this greatness and finally leaves the third world stage..

The thing is that russians is one of those peoples that (just like the arabs) have to be ruled by force and authority. Russians will fight and die when they have a government that brutally forces them to do so.

A nation with much greater character is Finland that with a small determined population (and a poorly equipped army) managed to both uphold democracy and stop the massive "mongol" invasion from the east. The russian fighting spirit was lost somewhere in the cold woods. One fighting finn was equivalent to ten fighting soviet soldiers.

Finland showed the world what free men can do.

[M4ko]

My opinion about Poland and Polish people definitely have changed since I started visiting this message board, I have learned a lot.
I'll do my best to educate as many as possible about what kind of people most of you are.

I still don't understand how nation so small can have so much hatred and poison inside of it.
Are you trying to say that size of nation determinates how big hatred can be inside of it? Interesting point of view... Do you know any egxample of big nation who... ? :roll:



I wish you weren't slavs, you don't deserve to be...
Do you mean the slavs are something good by the definition and better than others and not everyone deserve to be one of them...? So maybe the slavs are those "more equal" among equals....?



I also hope that the leaders of Russia will realize what the russians visiting this forum already know about the rest of the world and start living according to Peter the Great's saying: "Russia has only two friends - it's Army and Navy"...

Yeah, you're right. The rest of the world and every single non-Russian in this universe (including aliens of course) is agaist you and wants destroy you. Your fear is reasonable.

Fortunately you seem to know that the best defence is an attack, so don't wait, destroy your enemy as quickly as it possible! Conquer the rest of the world!

"Fear leads to anger, and anger to hate, and hate to suffering" - Yoda

Your words show what kind of person you are
:cantbeli:


So go ahead - boil in your hatred, spew your poison and spread the lies, the life will catch up with you and I hope to be there to do my part...
:cantbeli:

Dear Dima, please stop seeing and judgening others acording to that you are and you think. You proved many times you have a qualifications to judge who hate more and less.

Again and again some brainwashed Russians and others write that all the Poles and Poland as a country have always hated Russians. Again and again Poles here have to explain that they don't feel in that way. It's boring.

All those times we were talking those negative words not about Russians as a people or nation but about your authorities and those of you who are blindly in love with them. We only think that your beloved Stalin and others comunist leaders including comrade Putin have done more wrong things than good, even not to other nations but Russians. When I find some your tsars, dictators and prresident stupid it doesn't mean I think the same about whole your nation. Every nation had in his history wrong men in charge. But the difference is that some people can realized and admit that and some others can't and prefer to think their whole nation have always been like an innocent child and everything was all right.

You seem to don't understand that or rather don't want to understand. Why do you prefer to think in very simply way? I know it's easier to live in stereotypes and black-white world but easier doesn't mean better.

BTW As for those decision about square's name, even in such country that have always "hate Russia" - Poland - media call it very controversial and many think that better would be if that name will be something like for egxample "chechen squar" without mention any concrete persons.


You care so much about Russian authorities commiting crimes against Russians more then the Russians themselves, dont you see something wrong here? want me explain why you think that way? Putin has done so much wrong... while Bush does nothing... besides "SHOCKING and AWING" a sovereign country.

That gives me an idea, im actually going to research how many civilan casualties have US caused in Iraq and how many Russians in Chechnya.

[walford]

I must ask those of you on both sides of this issue to forgive me here, because I admittedly know very little about the issue. Apparently there are many Poles who are sympathetic with the Chechens. From a sympathetic website based in Turkey:

Poland Honors the Memory of the Chechen Leaders (http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2005/03/22/3633.shtml)
Above 500 Poles and Chechens gathered last Saturday, 12 March, before the historical residence of Polish kings in Warsaw to honor the memory of President Aslan Maskhadov brutally killed by Russian aggressors and to express protest against the occupation of Chechnya.Not too objecive, eh? What interest do the Turks have in all of this -- or is there an Islamist faction in Turkey?

During the manifestation, which began with the anthem of the CRI, the participants offered up a prayer for the killed president. After that Mariush Kaminsky – deputy from the Law and Justice Party, and Senator Zbignew Romashevsky addressed the meeting participants.

“A great son of the Chechen people Aslan Maskhadov is lost, he was killed but he was not defeated, as were not broken and defeated his predecessors Johar Dudayev and Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev”, - said in his speech Mariush Kaminsky...

...Despite the protests and political pressure on the part of Russian diplomatic services, one of the squares of Warsaw was named after President of Chechnya Johar Dudayev. The decision has been taken by the City Council of Warsaw on the suggestion of the members of City Council of the Law and Justice Party.

The arguments for the decision of the City Council read, “The appellation of the name of the first Chechen President, General Johar Dudayev is paying honor to the aspiration of the Chechen people for freedom, and Dudayev is the symbol of Chechen people's centuries-old struggle for independence...”Then there are quotes from Russian sources expressing how offended they are about this. But why did the Poles do this?

...The members of Warsaw City Council, in their turn, stated that the action is continuation of the activity of the city authorities that several years ago passed a resolution on twin cities Warsaw and Johar, the capital of Chechen Republic Ichkeria.

“Our decision is recognition of such value as struggle for independence carried out by the courageous Chechen people for so many years”, - said one of the initiators of the decision...No part of Poland touches Chechenya. Do they mean sister city? Why?

...The mourning actions were organized by the Chechen Diaspora with the participation and assistance of many Polish political figures, leaders of the “Poland-Chechnya Committee” Adam Barovsky and Eduard Muzikovsky, youth organizations and organization of Polish anarchists. The representatives of forcibly displaced Chechens from above ten Centers for Displaced Persons took part in the actions...Anarchists? What sympathy do ordinary Poles have for the Chechens? I'm not so sure that ALL of Poland endorses this. In most countries there is dissent over any controversial figues being honored in such a way. Are there any Polish figures raising any objection?

For my part, I initially had sympathy for the Chechens. After all many former SSRs were allowed to establish sovereignty. My sympathy ended when they began to resort to targeting civilians in Russia.

Such methods are a sure way to erode moral support, no matter how good the cause may have been at one time. As we've seen over the years, al-Qaeda has been associated with certain elements of the Chechen rebels. Their tactics have become increasingly brutal.

As I indicated at the beginning, I know little about the reasons behind all of this, but these appear to be exchanges of hostile gestures on both sides. Tensions seem to be bad enough.

I would appreciate some clarification of the issues raised here.

[M4ko]

oh Thor you ignorant ... person. We were first ones to go to space, we GAVE you a reason to create a 5 year plan to land on the moon becuase we were YOUR benchmark. And by the way that all came almost out of nothing, while US was building skyscrapers. It came from the human spirit something you "immorals" have lost long ago. Russians do want their leader to be strong not a retard taht makes up his own english words while making a speech. We feed from great leader's aura and dont have our 4 year olds drawing names of Jesus with crosses in pre-school.

[Dima-RussianArms]

are you trying to say that size of nation determinates how big hatred can be inside of it?
Not always, but when it comes to certain countries, like yours for example, is does appear to be true.


Do you mean the slavs are something good by the definition and better than others and not everyone deserve to be one of them...?
No, I do not and it is one more reason why you don't fit in our family.
I do not know any other slav nation that would elevate itself above the others. I am thinking it might have something to do with the catholicism.
Before you say anything, go read up on how you guys treated Ukranians and other non-catholics - second class citizens, underhumans and slaves.


Yeah, you're right. The rest of the world and every single non-Russian in this universe (including aliens of course) is agaist you and wants destroy you.
There is no need for being so dramatic, but it is hard to come to any other conclusion after reading what people say on this board.


Your words show what kind of person you are
My words reflect my 2 year experience on this board, simple like that.


Again and again some brainwashed Russians and others write that all the Poles and Poland as a country have always hated Russians. Again and again Poles here have to explain that they don't feel in that way. It's boring.
?????
You ever read what your countryman post here? Do you ever read and try to understand others points of view?
Show me a single thread that was started by a russian that meant to insult or misinform about Poland. You can't. Now compare that to all the filth that poles post around here about Russia... So much for your "argument".

But the difference is that some people can realized and admit that and some others can't and prefer to think their whole nation have always been like an innocent child and everything was all right.
You ever ****ing read what I write or you have major blackouts in your memory?
You talk about pretending to be innocent?!
You are so full of it! Poles on this board are constantly blow things out of proportion and twist historical facts and events when it comes to any issue that has to deal with Russia.
You constantly whine about 40 years of being SU puppet, but what about several hundred years of crimes and slavery in Ukraine? Ever apologized for that? You can say it was long time ago, so what?
Poles love to scream how freedom and democracy loving they are but what about others? Didn't those poor Ukranian souls want freedom and democracy too?


I know it's easier to live in stereotypes and black-white world but easier doesn't mean better.
Tell it to your fellow countryman on this board.
2 years ago the only thing that I knew about Poland is that there is such country - you guys are done the rest.


I wonder how many innocent Russians were killed by these services? How many Russians POW's from German stalags finished in gulags or in the ground after WWII...? I wonder how many memorials for them could be in country where most of people still think that person responsible for deaths of these victims is the great man....
How is it any of your business? Are you a Russian? No - then keep on walking, it is our history and it is our country so leave it to us.

You ever seen any Russian on this board start threads about Poland's political life, history or military? But for some reason there are plenty of poles doing this regarding Russia, why?
You remind me people who love to watch "reality TV", of course the reason they love doing it because they have no life of their own...
Tell me, are things so boring in Poland that you find it necessary to dig thru your neighbors trash and laundry to get any spark/to put any substance into your lives? It shure look like it based on what I see on this board.


saying all Poles hate Russiasn is bull****. My parents love Russian people - they claim there can't exist friendly and kinder people on this planet.

The key word is "parents". They were raised differently from you and have seen more of this life than you did. You on other hand have recived "revisionist" education when everything and anything Soviet and Russian was awashed with dirt. To put it simply - your susceptible young mind was brainwashed to the point that you can't see straight and since you, unlike your parents, have never known any different - you take it as a sacred truth.

Your bloody thirsty hate other countries right to democracy and self determination, and are out to screw over anyone that isn't Russian by controling them. Oh and you love to idealize ppl that of whom the very thought in the western world would make your head spin as result of the horros they have caused.
:cantbeli:
Yeah sure. Kid, you are an idiot.


Us Western Slavs were always more democratic and western oriented then you guys - there is no denying that.
"Western slavs", who is that?
As for being "more democratic" - it is not even funny, I hope your older friends will enlighten you.
Btw, what exactly does "more democratic" mean?


Then you have Yalta, and Katyln - which you admitted to only after the cold war eneded. And you guys blame Polish fourmers for hating you?
You mean all of the polish members here were alive back then and those events have affected them personaly? Ever heard of expression "get over it"?
Should then Russians and Ukranians hate you for what your country was doing to them for several centuries?


now you want us to praise you for 50 years of communism?
No we want you to get your own life and stop whining.
You want to be a "playaa"?
But you are so dumb and short sighted, I just can't believe it.
Think about what are you doing here on this board.
You guys are constantly whining, bitching and complaining - where is your self respect, dignity and pride?
It is not what you think of yourselves - it is how you are being perceived...
Think about it, you all have some classmate, co-worker or some acquintance in real life who constanly whines, complains and tells everyone how life/his bosses/teachers mistreat him, what do you think about people like that - you think that people like that are pathetic and bitter and that is exactly how you come across on this board...
People like that are despised and that is exactly how I feel now about you and your pathetic little hating, poison spewing country - I despise you...

[RomanS]

[quote=RomanRussianArms]TIME FOR

http://www.geocities.com/redcomrades/nkvd.jpg


MEMORIALS



A nation with much greater character is Finland that with a small determined population (and a poorly equipped army) managed to both uphold democracy and stop the massive "mongol" invasion from the east. The russian fighting spirit was lost somewhere in the cold woods. One fighting finn was equivalent to ten fighting soviet soldiers.

Finland showed the world what free men can do.

Finland
LOL
hahahahahhah

yeah Russians really gave a **** about Finland.

In my history book and yours, it says clear - when Russians need something, they'll get it.

Ask Germans, they were 6,000 stronger than Finland, and actually they did make Finland their bitch. Lucky for Finland, they didnt want any right around 1945.
Stalin should of stoped there on the way back from Berlin.

[RomanS]

oh Thor you ignorant ... person. We were first ones to go to space, we GAVE you a reason to create a 5 year plan to land on the moon becuase we were YOUR benchmark. And by the way that all came almost out of nothing, while US was building skyscrapers. It came from the human spirit something you "immorals" have lost long ago. Russians do want their leader to be strong not a retard taht makes up his own english words while making a speech. We feed from great leader's aura and dont have our 4 year olds drawing names of Jesus with crosses in pre-school.

Hes not an American

Americans are not retarded

These Swedish, Finnish, Polish TOOLS and Fruit Cakes win Tournaments, National Retarded Contests, and World' Retardation Championships.

It just bugs them to death that Russia achieved more in history, military, science, anatomy, space, and art than all their Scandinavic, Baltic countries put together!

I understand your pain.


HAVE FUN

this message was possible because of

http://www2.fht-esslingen.de/telehistory/pics/sputnik.gif


CONQUERING SPACE since early 50s

[wholagun]

Dima-RussianArms

Im not a kid - 21 in a few days.

Western slavs - Poland, Czech, Sloavia - we belong to the Leketic language group. This why our languages are so simular, then you have Russsias, Ukrainians Belorussians and Serbia. We're all slavs but we there are differences.

its late here and Im going to bed - ill reply to all the stuff tommorow morning.
This thread will not last long.

[Thor]

Finland
LOL
hahahahahhah

yeah Russians really gave a **** about Finland.
From what I hear russians don't give **** about anything but their vodka my friend..

But Stalin did. The soviet numbers as always are diffuse. But according to the memoirs of Nikita Chrusjtjov 1.5 million men were sent to Finland and one million of them were killed. 1000 aircraft, 2300 tanks and armored cars and an enormous amount of other war materials were lost.

All this by a poor nation in the north called Finland and it's 3 million citizens....


In my history book and yours, it says clear - when Russians need something, they'll get it.
Apparently not...


Ask Germans, they were 6,000 stronger than Finland and actually they did make Finland their bitch.
The germans fought the whole world. You can't win then.

I don't think the finns were no ones bitches


Lucky for Finland, they didnt want any right around 1945. Stalin should of stoped there on the way back from Berlin.
Stalin still was a wise man. He knew when to wage war and when to negotiate a deal. He did the latter with Finland after WW2 and briefly commented it by saying "No one respects a country with a poor army, but everyone respects a country with a good army. I raise my toast to the Finnish Army.".

[Thor]

oh Thor you ignorant ... person. We were first ones to go to space
Mostly thanks to the germans (but the same goes for the yanks in that case).


And by the way that all came almost out of nothing, while US was building skyscrapers.
I believe it came on the expense of the poverty of your own people..


These Swedish, Finnish, Polish TOOLS and Fruit Cakes win Tournaments, National Retarded Contests, and World' Retardation Championships.

It just bugs them to death that Russia achieved more in history, military, science, anatomy, space, and art than all their Scandinavic, Baltic countries put together!

I understand your pain.
First of all Russia was founded by swedes..

Sure, Rusland has contributed but I fail to see any of that great stuff you're talking about.. Despite making huge human sacrifices defending enormous amount of wasteland.

I'm quite content with my country's performance. We're just a nation of 9 million people (of which 1 million are immigrants on welfare) but we have done, let's just say, pretty well in every area... Both historically and in the present.

[walford]

*sigh*

[perdurabo]

These Swedish, Finnish, Polish TOOLS and Fruit Cakes win Tournaments, National Retarded Contests, and World' Retardation Championships.

It just bugs them to death that Russia achieved more in history, military, science, anatomy, space, and art than all their Scandinavic, Baltic countries put together!

Dimma yeah we Poles are small litle bitches that hates Russians just because
look up on your countrymen post rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
i feel much anger in him -Yoda rofl (F* i can't wait for Clone Wars i must see it NOW)

[fdt]

.......but after reading all the garbage posted by Poles here and in numerous other topics, I am kinda start wishing for an accidental launch of some multimegaton nuclear weapon that will fall on Poland. "Great" wish, but sorry, I have NO mutual wish for You. I wish You - Russians to become a country of happy and well to do people. I wish You'd open to the World. I wish I'd go to museum in Russia and pay the same amount for ticket as Russian (not the "foreigner fee" that is 3 or more times higher). I wish You had a strong economy open to international co-operation (not bound with corrupt bureaucracy). I wish there would be no visas. I live 30 km from Polish-Russian border, and have frequent contacts with Russians. We have no problems with understanding each other... What is more we have no problems with talking on difficult topics... You know why? Because we talk to each other like man to man... Not like "grazdzanin velikoi strany" with "citizen of small country that has no nukes"... If Polish says stupid things he is stupid Pole, if Russian says stupid things he is a stupid Russian. Both are stupid... people. Period.

Your phrase was plain stupid... It didn't made me shake in fear, it didn't make me laugh... It showed me only a level of Your frustration.

If I was to make my opinion on all Russians basing on Your and Roman's posts here... I would be... stupid. You both "Russian Arms" folks have written so many idiotic things here... but I still think that Your views are Your views... not the opinion of all Russians.

[Dima-RussianArms]

It showed me only a level of Your frustration.
I am glad that you understand where it came from.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Before you say anything, go read up on how you guys treated Ukranians and other non-catholics - second class citizens, underhumans and slaves.


You constantly whine about 40 years of being SU puppet, but what about several hundred years of crimes and slavery in Ukraine?

You're reffering to the Commonwealth times, but I see that you don't know sh*t about the political system of that country.
Commonwealth was run by the nobles, who had exactly the same rights, no matter their nationality. Polish, Lithuanian or Ukrainian (Ruthetian) nobles were considered as equal, '1st class' citizens. All non-nobles were the '2nd class' with virtually no rights. Peasants' life was especially hard, the feudal system in Poland was probably the harshest in Europe, so they were treated almost like slaves. And again, peasants were opressed in whole Commonwealth no matter there were Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians etc.
In Commonwealth there were no such things as Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians etc, there were only 'noble brothers' and 'churls'

The Khmyelnytsky uprising started because the Commonwealth government wanted to reduce the Cossack Record (list of Cossacks serving in the Polish army) and turn the laid off Cossacks into normal peasants. The paradox is that one of the most brutal Ukrainian magnates, fighting the Khmyelnitsky's forces with no mercy, duke Jeremy Wisniowiecki (aka Cossacorum terror) was an Ukrainian noble, coming from an Orthodox family...
Polish-Ukrainian relations in the XVIIth and XVIIIth centuries were complicated and saying that Ukrainians were the 2nd class citizens, slaves etc. is a great simplification.

As for opression of other non-catholics: the act of Warsaw Confederation (1573) clearly said that all nobles are brothers, no matter the religion. So there were no religious wars in Poland, and non-catholic nobles weren't opressed. ie. one of the richest magnates in Polish histroy, the Radziwill family, was lutheran.

The situation in the restored Poland was different, but it lasted for 20 years, not 'several hundred'...

[Musashi]

Before you say anything, go read up on how you guys treated Ukranians and other non-catholics - second class citizens, underhumans and slaves.


You constantly whine about 40 years of being SU puppet, but what about several hundred years of crimes and slavery in Ukraine?

You're reffering to the Commonwealth times, but I see that you don't know sh*t about the political system of that country.
Commonwealth was run by the nobles, who had exactly the same rights, no matter their nationality. Polish, Lithuanian or Ukrainian (Ruthetian) nobles were considered as equal, '1st class' citizens. All non-nobles were the '2nd class' with virtually no rights. Peasants' life was especially hard, the feudal system in Poland was probably the harshest in Europe, so they were treated almost like slaves. And again, peasants were opressed in whole Commonwealth no matter there were Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians etc.
In Commonwealth there were no such things as Poles, Ukrainians, Lithuanians etc, there were only 'noble brothers' and 'churls'

The Khmyelnytsky uprising started because the Commonwealth government wanted to reduce the Cossack Record (list of Cossacks serving in the Polish army) and turn the laid off Cossacks into normal peasants. The paradox is that one of the most brutal Ukrainian magnates, fighting the Khmyelnitsky's forces with no mercy, duke Jeremy Wisniowiecki (aka Cossacorum terror) was an Ukrainian noble, coming from an Orthodox family...
Polish-Ukrainian relations in the XVIIth and XVIIIth centuries were complicated and saying that Ukrainians were the 2nd class citizens, slaves etc. is a great simplification.

As for opression of other non-catholics: the act of Warsaw Confederation (1573) clearly said that all nobles are brothers, no matter the religion. So there were no religious wars in Poland, and non-catholic nobles weren't opressed. ie. one of the richest magnates in Polish histroy, the Radziwill family, was lutheran.

The situation in the restored Poland was different, but it lasted for 20 years, not 'several hundred'...

Good post, Brzęczyszczykiewicz.
Some Russians apparently forgot what they had done to the Ukrainians: gulags, not less than 7 millions victims of femine in the 30s, etc. Their memory is very short.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

What sympathy do ordinary Poles have for the Chechens? I'm not so sure that ALL of Poland endorses this. In most countries there is dissent over any controversial figues being honored in such a way. Are there any Polish figures raising any objection?

Well most of Poles either don't care about it, or associate Chechens with the Beslan massacre so they don't have a good opinion here. Those Chechnya supporters are a marginal group, without any wider support from the people.
Naming the square after Dudayev was overruled by the Law and Justice party with majority of the Warsaw city council members abstenting.

As for the 12 March manifestation, it was a typical pacifist manifestation organised by anarchists and commies, supporting not only Chechnya but also the brave Iraqi resistance, condemning the USA, WTO, NATO, UE etc.

[Herrmannek]

Why so many Poles likes Checehns? It is rather complicated thing. Musashi said that not many like them but i'll disagree with him. Why people like chechens:

-Because of their long and tragic history under Russian/Soviet shoe.
-Because they picked a fight with much bigger "occupant" and won.
-Because we hear stories about atrocieties(false or true lets don't go into that here) made on Chechen people by Russians.
-Pics from refugie camps where people still live in tents without perspectives for future, etc.
-Because people like to compare chechens with polish partisans from AK, of course anyone who does that, hurts memory of the AK, and doesn't know that:
-our media say noting or little about atrocities that mainstream chechen leaders are making/allowing for.
-that for long time that war isn't about independency and freedom but its mafias front for their dirty buisneses.
-That positive reasons listed above detoriated into PR tool only.

It would be good if the street would be called Chechen's Nation or something, and not calling doubtfull names.

[tony6]

It is very sad that so many Russians still don't get what the communist system was based on.
Putting the NKVD emblema or Stalin's monument here to offend Polish forum members is a real historic irony.
NKVD-the organisation which killed thousands of Russians and Stalin - the greatest murderer in the history of human being (who was killing mostly his own relatives).
Showing those icons of the horrible system which killed millions of its own citizens to offend someone else is in fact like spitting on the graves of those millions of Russians who gave their life in sacrifise so that now people like Roman could earn their green dollars in USA.
Just my few cents.

[mack pl]

Western slavs - Poland, Czech, Sloavia - we belong to the Leketic language group. This why our languages are so simular, then you have Russsias, Ukrainians Belorussians and Serbia. We're all slavs but we there are differences.


Western group: Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, and small group in Germany(Serbołużyczanie in Polish, they lives near of Cottbus and Bautzen)

Eastern group: Russians, Ukrainians, Lemkos(well, they were considered as Ukrainians in past), Belarussians

Southern group: Bulgarians, Croats, Serbs(+Montenegro), Slovenians(sp.), well Makedonians also(they are mix Serbs and Bulgarians).


BTW

this thread is sooo cool :lol:

[fdt]

this thread is sooo cool :lol:
...but only a bit cooler than Your avatar.

[mack pl]

this thread is sooo cool :lol:
...but only a bit cooler than Your avatar.

yeah... :lol:

[M4ko]

oh Thor you ignorant ... person. We were first ones to go to space
Mostly thanks to the germans (but the same goes for the yanks in that case).


And by the way that all came almost out of nothing, while US was building skyscrapers.
I believe it came on the expense of the poverty of your own people..


These Swedish, Finnish, Polish TOOLS and Fruit Cakes win Tournaments, National Retarded Contests, and World' Retardation Championships.

It just bugs them to death that Russia achieved more in history, military, science, anatomy, space, and art than all their Scandinavic, Baltic countries put together!

I understand your pain.
First of all Russia was founded by swedes..

Sure, Rusland has contributed but I fail to see any of that great stuff you're talking about.. Despite making huge human sacrifices defending enormous amount of wasteland.

I'm quite content with my country's performance. We're just a nation of 9 million people (of which 1 million are immigrants on welfare) but we have done, let's just say, pretty well in every area... Both historically and in the present.

yea mostly thanks to germans for their rocket designs, also lets mention how everyone who uses a car right now has to be paying tribute to the prehistoric men who invented stone wheels. Germans werent builing rockets to go to space.

Russia went to space on the expenses of poverty... do you even know what are you talking about? it sure makes no sense to me.

YOu look like your American washed, whats up with that texas state flag?

[M4ko]

It is very sad that so many Russians still don't get what the communist system was based on.
Putting the NKVD emblema or Stalin's monument here to offend Polish forum members is a real historic irony.
NKVD-the organisation which killed thousands of Russians and Stalin - the greatest murderer in the history of human being (who was killing mostly his own relatives).
Showing those icons of the horrible system which killed millions of its own citizens to offend someone else is in fact like spitting on the graves of those millions of Russians who gave their life in sacrifise so that now people like Roman could earn their green dollars in USA.
Just my few cents.

Yea we "still" dont get what communist system was although we spent half or more of our lives living there. Its you who doesnt know much besides what the western media tells him.

[walford]

http://www.llamanade.net/pictures/Thread%20Pics/sucks.jpg

[tony6]

Yea we "still" dont get what communist system was although we spent half or more of our lives living there. Its you who doesnt know much besides what the western media tells him.
...said Russian patriot sitting on his ass in front of TV in New York city.

[Herrmannek]

Problem with Russians is that only apartchiks' children could leave that full of prosperity Russia or have computers with net access. I'm sure communism was ideal for them and their parents and democratic changes were a very traumatic event they have now nightamres about. Still part of Russians wich was realy hurt in the communist times have no way to to tell us how good it was for them, because they still can't afford(if there is dial-up in siberia?) a computer with net acces to tell us how good it was then.

[Lokos]

Walford,

In this instance even you must agree that reacting badly to Thor's posts is excusable. Come on. Give me that much.

Lokos

[SerbPVO]

I also lost a little of my respect for Poland after this.
Eh...Dudayev square in great city of Warsaw?

Thats like giving a square to Osama bin Laden in Belgrade, who also took on a "big occupant" and "won".

But we have Slavija Square and thats enough for us.

[M4ko]

Yea we "still" dont get what communist system was although we spent half or more of our lives living there. Its you who doesnt know much besides what the western media tells him.
...said Russian patriot sitting on his ass in front of TV in New York city.

and taht means what?

[M4ko]

Problem with Russians is that only apartchiks' children could leave that full of prosperity Russia or have computers with net access. I'm sure communism was ideal for them and their parents and democratic changes were a very traumatic event they have now nightamres about. Still part of Russians wich was realy hurt in the communist times have no way to to tell us how good it was for them, because they still can't afford(if there is dial-up in siberia?) a computer with net acces to tell us how good it was then.

There were no computers and interenet connections during communism. And "apartchiks" werent the ones to get internet after communism's fall. I dont come from any high ranking family and even though i might ve envied people whos family was working for the government i still tell you that i preffer that life compared to what it is now in US.

[walford]

Walford, In this instance even you must agree that reacting badly to Thor's posts is excusable. Come on. Give me that much.I'm not singling you out. I was hoping that the questions I asked earlier would be answered. I would like to know more about this. None of the subsequent posts have been informative at all. All I've learned is that many of you don't seem to like each other very much and are fond of nursing ancient grudges.

Oh, well.

[Drako]

I also lost a little of my respect for Poland after this.
Eh...Dudayev square in great city of Warsaw?

Thats like giving a square to Osama bin Laden in Belgrade, who also took on a "big occupant" and "won".

But we have Slavija Square and thats enough for us.

The truth is that Warsaw is not the first city which names it's part after Dudayev. Unfortunately I don't remember other cities' names but I'll try to dig for them. As much as I think that idea of Dudayev square is stupid, I can't do anything about it and as I don't live in Warsaw I don't really care.

@Walford:
I'll try to answer your questions.

From a sympathetic website based in Turkey:
Quote:
Poland Honors the Memory of the Chechen Leaders
Above 500 Poles and Chechens gathered last Saturday, 12 March, before the historical residence of Polish kings in Warsaw to honor the memory of President Aslan Maskhadov brutally killed by Russian aggressors and to express protest against the occupation of Chechnya.
Not too objecive, eh? What interest do the Turks have in all of this -- or is there an Islamist faction in Turkey?
I have no idea what interest they have in all of this. Maybe they hate Russia? ;)
Quote:
During the manifestation, which began with the anthem of the CRI, the participants offered up a prayer for the killed president. After that Mariush Kaminsky – deputy from the Law and Justice Party, and Senator Zbignew Romashevsky addressed the meeting participants.

“A great son of the Chechen people Aslan Maskhadov is lost, he was killed but he was not defeated, as were not broken and defeated his predecessors Johar Dudayev and Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev”, - said in his speech Mariush Kaminsky...

...Despite the protests and political pressure on the part of Russian diplomatic services, one of the squares of Warsaw was named after President of Chechnya Johar Dudayev. The decision has been taken by the City Council of Warsaw on the suggestion of the members of City Council of the Law and Justice Party.

The arguments for the decision of the City Council read, “The appellation of the name of the first Chechen President, General Johar Dudayev is paying honor to the aspiration of the Chechen people for freedom, and Dudayev is the symbol of Chechen people's centuries-old struggle for independence...”
Then there are quotes from Russian sources expressing how offended they are about this. But why did the Poles do this?
Law and Justice party is a right-wing party. They are very upset and feel offended (actually most of us is) that Russia denied that Katyn was a genocide and rejected to punish people responsible for it (because their names are in "classified" documents) so they want to give "a slap" to Russia and "let them feel how we feel".
Quote:
...The members of Warsaw City Council, in their turn, stated that the action is continuation of the activity of the city authorities that several years ago passed a resolution on twin cities Warsaw and Johar, the capital of Chechen Republic Ichkeria.

“Our decision is recognition of such value as struggle for independence carried out by the courageous Chechen people for so many years”, - said one of the initiators of the decision...
No part of Poland touches Chechenya. Do they mean sister city? Why?
Quote:
...The mourning actions were organized by the Chechen Diaspora with the participation and assistance of many Polish political figures, leaders of the “Poland-Chechnya Committee” Adam Barovsky and Eduard Muzikovsky, youth organizations and organization of Polish anarchists. The representatives of forcibly displaced Chechens from above ten Centers for Displaced Persons took part in the actions...
Anarchists? What sympathy do ordinary Poles have for the Chechens? I'm not so sure that ALL of Poland endorses this. In most countries there is dissent over any controversial figues being honored in such a way. Are there any Polish figures raising any objection?

As it was written before, Chechenya for many people is in similar situation as Poland during the WWII and Dudayev was a "fighter for freedom". Basically it's just lack of knowledge about that man and about his actions against civilians in Russia. So far no politicians raised any objections (at least non I know of). I think the reason is that they feel offended by Russia as well and because basically it's up to the city council to decide about streets names and government has no right to decide about that.

For my part, I initially had sympathy for the Chechens. After all many former SSRs were allowed to establish sovereignty. My sympathy ended when they began to resort to targeting civilians in Russia.

Such methods are a sure way to erode moral support, no matter how good the cause may have been at one time. As we've seen over the years, al-Qaeda has been associated with certain elements of the Chechen rebels. Their tactics have become increasingly brutal.

I still have sympathy to Chechens but I also disagree with targeting civilians.

As I indicated at the beginning, I know little about the reasons behind all of this, but these appear to be exchanges of hostile gestures on both sides. Tensions seem to be bad enough.

I would appreciate some clarification of the issues raised here.


I hope you're satisfied ;)

[walford]

Thanks Drako. You're a good man. I don't care what they say. If all of you spent more time posting pics of beautiful ladies in the babes thread, you would feel much better.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34135&highlight=

[Drako]

Thanks Drako. You're a good man. I don't care what they say. If all of you spent more time posting pics of beautiful ladies in the babes thread, you would feel much better.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34135&highlight=

Meh, more than searching pics through the net I prefer going out and watching some live ones ;)

[walford]

Meh, more than searching pics through the net I prefer going out and watching some live ones ;)When you do, make sure to...
http://www.advantage123.com/digital_camera_buying_guide_review/images/Sony-DSC-P92-Digital-Camera.jpg

[Tream]

Oi mates!
Firstly, I want to say, this thread more like a conflict than a normal arguments exposure...

I am a Pole, and I am damn proud to be, although I dislike our government and authorities, cause they have no moral right to rule this beautiful country. I won't believe, that You, Russians, like Your government and authorities... (that would be really surprising). Why? Because You don't have freedom of speech (clearly), You don't have a right to strike (or You do have, but only on paper), I remember fe months ago, somebody was striking near Your ministry, and was put in prison for 4 years (brrrr scary). I think that's enough to hate the government and especially mister KGB agent Putin :}.

Also, a fact is, that Russian government think that Poland should belong to Russia or at least be controlled by Russian government. They are pissed off about Ukraine, our idea to take some gas from Norway...
They are surely provocing Polish government, by telling that Yalta was great (oh man that's funny) and other diplomatic incidents... Polish government does the same thing.

The thing is to tell the difference between the government and the people....

PS When I'll have more time, I'll post other my ideas ;p

[Turhapuro]

It just bugs them to death that Russia achieved more in history, military, science, anatomy, space, and art than all their Scandinavic, Baltic countries put together!

Well, we aren't powerhungry megalomaniacs whose main goal is to be the most repulsive nation in Europe :roll:

[walford]

:hug:

[~~~~]

Im not a kid - 21 in a few days.




in fact you are.

[wholagun]

Im not a kid - 21 in a few days.




in fact you are.

well if your 30 years old then maybe to you, but im not 16 year old kid.

[Mr.K]

Russian Goverment had a plan of renaming the street where the polish embassy is to Gen.Muraviev Street. (Muraviev crushed the Warsaw uprising in an extremly bloody way, he got the nickname of Muraviev- The Hangman)
Anyways both sides keep stupidly provoking eachother.
Note to my russian fellows on this board: quit being so emotional to every topic and respond with NKVD and Stalin. People don't like that and you look like fools. As a russian expartiate i realised that we should stop giving a f**** for all our neighbors obsessed with their independance and victimisation. Let them rename their countries to Dudaevland if they want to. And let their nursing to Europe and USA.
Russia's concern right now would be rebuilding itself from the inside.

[walford]

^^^ Damnit koutch, that's the most sensible post yet on this thread. Prepare to be flamed for it.

[nagant_m44]

Russian Goverment had a plan of renaming the street where the polish embassy is to Gen.Muraviev Street. (Muraviev crushed the Warsaw uprising in an extremly bloody way, he got the nickname of Muraviev- The Hangman)
Anyways both sides keep stupidly provoking eachother.
Note to my russian fellows on this board: quit being so emotional to every topic and respond with NKVD and Stalin. People don't like that and you look like fools. As a russian expartiate i realised that we should stop giving a f**** for all our neighbors obsessed with their independance and victimisation. Let them rename their countries to Dudaevland if they want to. And let their nursing to Europe and USA.
Russia's concern right now would be rebuilding itself from the inside.

Should we also let Chechnya go?

[Igor01]

Russian Goverment had a plan of renaming the street where the polish embassy is to Gen.Muraviev Street. (Muraviev crushed the Warsaw uprising in an extremly bloody way, he got the nickname of Muraviev- The Hangman)
Anyways both sides keep stupidly provoking eachother.
Note to my russian fellows on this board: quit being so emotional to every topic and respond with NKVD and Stalin. People don't like that and you look like fools. As a russian expartiate i realised that we should stop giving a f**** for all our neighbors obsessed with their independance and victimisation. Let them rename their countries to Dudaevland if they want to. And let their nursing to Europe and USA.
Russia's concern right now would be rebuilding itself from the inside.

Should we also let Chechnya go?

No, but we must rename Krakowskaya kolbassa to Smolenskaya to comemmorate the Russian victory over the Polish invaders. Another great idea being kicked around on the internet forums is to have in each Russian city four streets named after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Partition of Poland, with a name "5th partition of Poland" reserved just in case, you never know :)

Disclaimer for our Polish friends: the preceeding is a joke and in no way reflects the official stance of the Russian Foreign Ministry, the Russian President or the Russian Society of Daltonics and Hearing-Impared.

[Herrmannek]

Russian Goverment had a plan of renaming the street where the polish embassy is to Gen.Muraviev Street. (Muraviev crushed the Warsaw uprising in an extremly bloody way, he got the nickname of Muraviev- The Hangman)
Anyways both sides keep stupidly provoking eachother.
Note to my russian fellows on this board: quit being so emotional to every topic and respond with NKVD and Stalin. People don't like that and you look like fools. As a russian expartiate i realised that we should stop giving a f**** for all our neighbors obsessed with their independance and victimisation. Let them rename their countries to Dudaevland if they want to. And let their nursing to Europe and USA.
Russia's concern right now would be rebuilding itself from the inside.

I almost agree with you :), Although I don't believe in wishfull thinking. Russia is expected to fall anyway. It takes to much space on map and is hold together with too weak ties.

[RomanS]

Russian Goverment had a plan of renaming the street where the polish embassy is to Gen.Muraviev Street. (Muraviev crushed the Warsaw uprising in an extremly bloody way, he got the nickname of Muraviev- The Hangman)
Anyways both sides keep stupidly provoking eachother.
Note to my russian fellows on this board: quit being so emotional to every topic and respond with NKVD and Stalin. People don't like that and you look like fools. As a russian expartiate i realised that we should stop giving a f**** for all our neighbors obsessed with their independance and victimisation. Let them rename their countries to Dudaevland if they want to. And let their nursing to Europe and USA.
Russia's concern right now would be rebuilding itself from the inside.

Should we also let Chechnya go?

No, but we must rename Krakowskaya kolbassa to Smolenskaya to comemmorate the Russian victory over the Polish invaders. Another great idea being kicked around on the internet forums is to have in each Russian city four streets named after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Partition of Poland, with a name "5th partition of Poland" reserved just in case, you never know :)

Disclaimer for our Polish friends: the preceeding is a joke and in no way reflects the official stance of the Russian Foreign Ministry, the Russian President or the Russian Society of Daltonics and Hearing-Impared.



пшык пшык пшык

хахахахахахахахахах

Bravo Igor

[tony6]

Russian Goverment had a plan of renaming the street where the polish embassy is to Gen.Muraviev Street. (Muraviev crushed the Warsaw uprising in an extremly bloody way, he got the nickname of Muraviev- The Hangman)
Anyways both sides keep stupidly provoking eachother.
Note to my russian fellows on this board: quit being so emotional to every topic and respond with NKVD and Stalin. People don't like that and you look like fools. As a russian expartiate i realised that we should stop giving a f**** for all our neighbors obsessed with their independance and victimisation. Let them rename their countries to Dudaevland if they want to. And let their nursing to Europe and USA.
Russia's concern right now would be rebuilding itself from the inside.
Incredible!!! I TOTALY agree with You.
One reasonable thinking Russian at last.
Buddy-let me buy You a beer. But then again: maybe You prefer vodka? :D

[Marmot1]

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

OK one question.... how many russians who posted in this thread live actually in Russia?

So far I counted 3 that live in US... and 0 from Russia (dunno about Igor01 and nagant_m44
do you guys live in Russia or you are proud owners of US green cards too?)


They say that rats run away first from sinking ship... seems there is something true in this saying. rofl

[Mr.K]

I don't think Russia will fall, it was supposed to fall too many times, but it's still there. Just like Poland, it won't disapear.;)
As for Chechnya, no we shouldn't let it go. France won't let Corsica go, The Spanish wono't let the Basque, Canada wn't give up Quebec.
Wihout starting a flame war, let me give you some examples marmot, Jews who do not live in Israel are most likely to support Israel, the Lebanese diaspora supports and identifies itself with Lebanon, same thing for the Armenians. Calling us rats and our country a sinking ship is plain low.
History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard.

[Marmot1]

I don't think Russia will fall, it was supposed to fall too many times, but it's still there. Just like Poland, it won't disapear.;)
As for Chechnya, no we shouldn't let it go. France won't let Corsica go, The Spanish wono't let the Basque, Canada wn't give up Quebec.
Wihout starting a flame war, let me give you some examples marmot, Jews who do not live in Israel are most likely to support Israel, the Lebanese diaspora supports and identifies itself with Lebanon, same thing for the Armenians. Calling us rats and our country a sinking ship is plain low.
History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard.

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways ;-)

I am just astonished that there is no single Russian living actually in Russia who posted on this thread... But it looks silly for me that you say Russia is great, is cool, is uberpower, etc. while you all emigrated from your country. That just contradicts your statements about how great russia is. It is little funny because all Poles posting here and on this forum (except one AFAIK) live actually in Poland... I know from my experience that my countrymen who live abroad have totaly screwed up view of Poland and any discussiaon with them about Poland is POINTLESS. It's like discussing advanced quantum physics with high shool graduate- he knows something but not much and usualy his knowledge is far not up to date. It would be nice to have this discussion with someone who live in Russia on daily basis but it seems Internet (or english) is not so popular there since mayority of Russian forum members DO NOT LIVE in Russia.

/I have similar observation about Serbs on this forum- seems that most of them actually do not live in Serbia, but after lerning that TOP forum germanophile and defender of Germany and everything that is german(machupichu) - is in reality Albanian rofl emigrant who immigrated to Germany 5 years ago, nothing can surprise me.... /

OK have a nice day/night I have to go to bed it's 3:30 AM here and I have forensic autopsy at 12AM so since I do not wat to be mistaken with object of it, I need some sleep.

Marmot1

[nagant_m44]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

[Jani.R]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

And this time its gonna pay little more Russkie lives than last time, pff.

[Lokos]

Marmot,

What is your point?

How does your last post in any way negate anything said previously in this thread?

1) You are incredibly presumptious.

2) Most of the Russians here are nationalists. The nation is not a physical entity. Being a patriot does not mean you have to live in any specific place.

3) This line of argument is fundamentally flawed, because it is ad hominem.

In your mind arguing that Russians should see today's situation for 'what it is' is logical. But for me it can only be called wishful thinking. The current situation in Russia is not the new status quo. Russia is, in fact, just beginning to recover from the effects of the downfall of the Communist regime and subsequent ultra liberal market reforms. When it recovers, Russia will once again be a great power, instead of 'simply' a major one.

Just like the United States with its Monroe Doctrine, the Russians see territories adjacent to theirs as their own backyard.

How can you be so hypocritical as to criticize the Russians for trying to do what the Americans have already done and are currently doing?

Lokos

[M4ko]

Ill explain it in short to Marmot.

Enemies caused collapse in Russia, people, even ones who loved their country were forced to make a living in some other country. I myself did not immigrate to US by my own choice. And now we still hate our enemies and love our country.

[nagant_m44]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

And this time its gonna pay little more Russkie lives than last time, pff.

and this time we are going to go all the way to helsinki

[Herrmannek]

Lokos, problem is we don't talk about ideas or patriotism or nationalism. We talk bout reality, you can believe that moscovites have blessing from God, but lets say no sign in air or on earth is showing that.

By fall of Russia I meant that republics or parts of Russia that aren't trully occupied by russian natives(caucasians from moscow regions) will detach. Russia can fight with one Chechenya or even three, but when most of the republics decide to detach, there will be noone left to protect unity of Russia in current shape. Its fate every multinational country is facing(Austro-Hungary, Common-Wealth, Yugoslavia, etc). You can say "but hell look at USA, they are not falling apart we are like them", but you aren't. You don't have glue USA is glued. Way of govermenting your country you prise so much forcefully washed any glue joining peoples, they stick together to this days only by inertia, but that will not last long.

[redfox0035]

Ill explain it in short to Marmot.

Guess I did it shorter - can't see any reason chatting with a dumb.

And I didn't mean anything offencive there - posts of some people are nothing but a sorry sight going over some themes over an over again, having nothing worth of attention.

So they are dismissed, and I mean it.

[Marmot1]

Ill explain it in short to Marmot.

Enemies caused collapse in Russia, people, even ones who loved their country were forced to make a living in some other country. I myself did not immigrate to US by my own choice. And now we still hate our enemies and love our country.

Can you explain me who those enemies are? I assume from your posts that Poland is to small and unimportant so I think we didn't do it ;) .... so who is this "enemy"? I think you have probably USA on mind... and suddenly now all of you emigrated to USA (or most of you-Russian forum members). So what, now you emigrated to enemy?.... We call it colaboiration in Poland. Going with your logic I can say Poland is in same situation, our enemies caused us to colapse and now we are recorvering.

[Marmot1]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

And this time its gonna pay little more Russkie lives than last time, pff.

and this time we are going to go all the way to helsinki....

...while we will be knocking to kremlin gates again... p-)

[Marmot1]

Ill explain it in short to Marmot.

Guess I did it shorter - can't see any reason chatting with a dumb.

And I didn't mean anything offencive there - posts of some people are nothing but a sorry sight going over some themes over an over again, having nothing worth of attention.

So they are dismissed, and I mean it.


Tell my since my post is "nothing worth of attention" why it brought your attention to this level that you decided to write above quoted text? Seems that you just do not have anything worth saying but you wanted to exist in this theread.

[Jani.R]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

And this time its gonna pay little more Russkie lives than last time, pff.

and this time we are going to go all the way to helsinki

Just like last time? :lol:

[Lokos]

I don't understand the cockiness of the manifold Finns on this forum. The Winter War went well for you because of the mistakes your enemy made, not because of your own brilliance or martial qualities.

Consider:

The Soviet Union in 1940 couldn't subjugate Finland. In 1945, it subjugated Manchuria - with over a million Japanese soldiers in it, who had more heavy equipment than the Finns had and even more fanatical bravery - in two weeks. Terrain/climate wouldn't help you. Manchuria is some of the most inhospitable real estate on the planet.

Having explored that, are you under the impression that the SU of 1945 would have had enormous difficulties in smashing Finland into pieces? It surely didn't look that way in '44.

So, tell me, why do you bring up the Winter War when the spectre of a modern Russian assault on Finland is raised?

I do understand, though, that Russia's strength is something you fear intensely and inherently - and that goes a long way toward explaining your stance on this issue. You are so determined to show that the Russians are weak and that you are not afraid of them (and that they are evil) that you've become foolhardy.

Lokos

[nagant_m44]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

And this time its gonna pay little more Russkie lives than last time, pff.

and this time we are going to go all the way to helsinki

Just like last time? :lol:

But this time we're going to stay. Attacking us on skis with nice nagants wont work this time. As for Poland, I think we can take them in 2 weeks. ;)

[mack pl]

As for Poland, I think we can take them in 2 weeks. ;)

I can't arguing about that, but I have one serious question....what do you want from us? Potatos, vodka, women, woods, Polish Bizons? :lol: There is no reason for attacking(conquer) another country this days...Russia has different ways to fight for their leader position in the region(oil, energy, etc.). But maybe you, my dear nagant-+66 , still lives in first half of XX century, and belives that Red Army is better then diplomacy? :lol: p-)

Pax Pax :D

[nagant_m44]

As for Poland, I think we can take them in 2 weeks. ;)

I can't arguing about that, but I have one serious question....what do you want from us? Potatos, vodka, women, woods, Polish Bizons? :lol: There is no reason for attacking(conquer) another country this days...Russia has different ways to fight for their leader position in the region(oil, energy, etc.). But maybe you, my dear nagant-+66 , still lives in first half of XX century, and belives that Red Army is better then diplomacy? :lol: p-)

Pax Pax :D

I don't want anything from you, well the women are nice :D , but im not being serious when i said i wanted to invade poland

[minimus]

Its becoming quite funny watching those little Russian boys dreaming about greatness of their homeland. They are becoming so excited that they are already dreaming about taking Helsinki, Warsaw. What next? Try to properly take Grozny first. rofl

Last time they beat somebody was 60 years ago. But so what? What really did you gain by this? You could have much more if you were smarter. Your country is poor and behaving like it means something, but all it has is great potential (so far wasted) and a lot of oil which gives wealth to only few. This is, little boys, what today's world is all about: great country has citizens who are well off and happy. How many of your countryman are in this category? Apparently you were not happy enough to stay there.

GROW UP BOYS.

[mack pl]

I don't want anything from you, well the women are nice :D , but im not being serious when i said i wanted to invade poland

I know you wasn't serious, same as me ;)

[nagant_m44]

Its becoming quite funny watching those little Russian boys dreaming about greatness of their homeland. They are becoming so excited that they are already dreaming about taking Helsinki, Warsaw. What next? Try to properly take Grozny first. rofl

Last time they beat somebody was 60 years ago. But so what? What really did you gain by this? You could have much more if you were smarter. Your country is poor and behaving like it means something, but all it has is great potential (so far wasted) and a lot of oil which gives wealth to only few. This is, little boys, what today's world is all about: great country has citizens who are well off and happy. How many of your countryman are in this category? Apparently you were not happy enough to stay there.
GROW UP BOYS.

Apparently you take this forum way to seriously. :bash:

[minimus]

Its becoming quite funny watching those little Russian boys dreaming about greatness of their homeland. They are becoming so excited that they are already dreaming about taking Helsinki, Warsaw. What next? Try to properly take Grozny first. rofl

Last time they beat somebody was 60 years ago. But so what? What really did you gain by this? You could have much more if you were smarter. Your country is poor and behaving like it means something, but all it has is great potential (so far wasted) and a lot of oil which gives wealth to only few. This is, little boys, what today's world is all about: great country has citizens who are well off and happy. How many of your countryman are in this category? Apparently you were not happy enough to stay there.
GROW UP BOYS.

Apparently you take this forum way to seriously. :bash:

Maybe - I don't visit often. A lot of crap was said nevertheless.

[Marmot1]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

And this time its gonna pay little more Russkie lives than last time, pff.

and this time we are going to go all the way to helsinki

Just like last time? :lol:

But this time we're going to stay. Attacking us on skis with nice nagants wont work this time. As for Poland, I think we can take them in 2 weeks. ;)

Hmm.... /*opens atlas of caucasus*/ you say two weeks? ;)

[Kilgor]

I don't understand the cockiness of the manifold Finns on this forum. The Winter War went well for you because of the mistakes your enemy made, not because of your own brilliance or martial qualities.

Consider:

The Soviet Union in 1940 couldn't subjugate Finland. In 1945, it subjugated Manchuria - with over a million Japanese soldiers in it, who had more heavy equipment than the Finns had and even more fanatical bravery - in two weeks. Terrain/climate wouldn't help you. Manchuria is some of the most inhospitable real estate on the planet.

Lokos

Id be eager to hear your explaination for why manchuria could be controlled and the Fniish invasion went so badly ?

As stalin's top spy in toyko said, japan's eyes were elsewhere around 40,41 so it would appear they didnt put much effort into manchuria.

[nagant_m44]

History has a tendency of repeating itself, so don't laugh too hard good point, but it works both ways



Yep, I can't wait until Poland is Russia's bitch again. ;)

And this time its gonna pay little more Russkie lives than last time, pff.

and this time we are going to go all the way to helsinki

Just like last time? :lol:

But this time we're going to stay. Attacking us on skis with nice nagants wont work this time. As for Poland, I think we can take them in 2 weeks. ;)

Hmm.... /*opens atlas of caucasus*/ you say two weeks? ;)

I didn't rule out the use of nukes ;)

[wholagun]

well Poland might be getting nuclear power plants, which would allow us to build nukes since we'd have the material to do so.

ah nukes - taking the honour right out of fighting.

[nagant_m44]

well Poland might be getting nuclear power plants, which would allow us to build nukes since we'd have the material to do so.

ah nukes - taking the honour right out of fighting.

Fine, we will just roll over you flat terrain with a few armored divisions. 2 weeks until we get your unconditional surrender ;)

[wholagun]

well Poland might be getting nuclear power plants, which would allow us to build nukes since we'd have the material to do so.

ah nukes - taking the honour right out of fighting.

Fine, we will just roll over you flat terrain with a few armored divisions. 2 weeks until we get your unconditional surrender ;)

Germans were quelling Warsaw for 2 months.

You have to understand the culture of who your takeing over, our identity is based on struggle and resistance. That is a powerful tool in helping people cope with reistance and a call to duty, not to mention propaganda.

[M4ko]

well Poland might be getting nuclear power plants, which would allow us to build nukes since we'd have the material to do so.

ah nukes - taking the honour right out of fighting.

Fine, we will just roll over you flat terrain with a few armored divisions. 2 weeks until we get your unconditional surrender ;)

Germans were quelling Warsaw for 2 months.

You have to understand the culture of who your takeing over, our identity is based on struggle and resistance. That is a powerful tool in helping people cope with reistance and a call to duty, not to mention propaganda.

based on resistance from whom?

[M4ko]

Ill explain it in short to Marmot.

Enemies caused collapse in Russia, people, even ones who loved their country were forced to make a living in some other country. I myself did not immigrate to US by my own choice. And now we still hate our enemies and love our country.

Can you explain me who those enemies are? I assume from your posts that Poland is to small and unimportant so I think we didn't do it ;) .... so who is this "enemy"? I think you have probably USA on mind... and suddenly now all of you emigrated to USA (or most of you-Russian forum members). So what, now you emigrated to enemy?.... We call it colaboiration in Poland. Going with your logic I can say Poland is in same situation, our enemies caused us to colapse and now we are recorvering.

..... you question same thing taht has been answered already... in the reply you quoted.

[wholagun]

Russia, Germans, Austrians

well we were under occupation for the last 300 some odd years. Resistance does not only come by violence although physical resistance is also part of it.

Polish reistance during WWII the biggest of WWII.

[M4ko]

ok

[wholagun]

Ill explain it in short to Marmot.

Enemies caused collapse in Russia, people, even ones who loved their country were forced to make a living in some other country. I myself did not immigrate to US by my own choice. And now we still hate our enemies and love our country.

Can you explain me who those enemies are? I assume from your posts that Poland is to small and unimportant so I think we didn't do it ;) .... so who is this "enemy"? I think you have probably USA on mind... and suddenly now all of you emigrated to USA (or most of you-Russian forum members). So what, now you emigrated to enemy?.... We call it colaboiration in Poland. Going with your logic I can say Poland is in same situation, our enemies caused us to colapse and now we are recorvering.

..... you question same thing taht has been answered already... in the reply you quoted.

I did...oh i I didn't even realize. Im going on 3 hours sleep this night after I pulled an all nighter to pull off my statistics assignment and anyalysis.

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Fine, we will just roll over you flat terrain with a few armored divisions. 2 weeks until we get your unconditional surrender ;)

In this case we're going to poison all of our vodka reserves, and your army will die of exhaustion after few days :D

[Mr.K]

Fine, we will just roll over you flat terrain with a few armored divisions. 2 weeks until we get your unconditional surrender ;)

In this case we're going to poison all of our vodka reserves, and your army will die of exhaustion after few days :D
we will rely on samogon and alterned jet fuel :lol:

[rhino]

All of those monuments are great but after reading all the garbage posted by Poles here and in numerous other topics, I am kinda start wishing for an accidental launch of some multimegaton nuclear weapon that will fall on Poland.


CNN News Break.... form Russia: an accidental lounch of a nuclear missile ends horibly when the missile explodes on the luch pad. Fortunetly only two people present at the site die, according to the government news media.....
rofl rofl rofl rofl

[nagant_m44]

Fine, we will just roll over you flat terrain with a few armored divisions. 2 weeks until we get your unconditional surrender ;)

In this case we're going to poison all of our vodka reserves, and your army will die of exhaustion after few days :D

Thats ok, we won't drink your piss anyway :D

[Mr.K]

CNN News Break.... form Russia: an accidental lounch of a nuclear missile ends horibly when the missile explodes on the luch pad. Fortunetly only two people present at the site die, according to the government news media.....
rofl rofl rofl rofl
That comes from someone who's goverment is buying british scrap for defense. ;)

[wholagun]

polish vodka piss?9 If you can afford Belvedre try it, then we'll talk.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Newsweek/Photos/Web_Exclusives/040412_040419/040416_GehryBottle_vl.standard.jpg
this was part of the the package that was handed out to Oscar winnres in 2004. p-)

and for the final touch.

http://altura.speedera.net/ccimg.catalogcity.com/200000/206000/206074/products/8796684.jpg

If only wars were fought with Vodka -we'd own the world. ;)

Pablo Picasso was once heard to say, "The three most astonishing things in the past half-century were the blues, cubism, and Polish vodka."

oh I almost forgot Chopin vodka

http://www.wg365.com.cn/knowledge/cocktail/tupan/5692.jpg

[nagant_m44]

If only wars were fought with Vodka -we'd own the world.

In that case, your country has no honor because Russia invented vodka. Your just a country of thieving scumbags! ;)

[nagant_m44]

http://www.moskovskaya.com/800x600/web_pics/flasche_cristall.jpg[/img]http://www.moskovskaya.com/800x600/web_pics/flasche_mosko.jpgNo wannabe crap from Poland can beat this. ;)

[rhino]

http://www.moskovskaya.com/800x600/web_pics/flasche_cristall.jpg[/img]http://www.moskovskaya.com/800x600/web_pics/flasche_mosko.jpgNo wannabe crap from Poland can beat this. ;)


if you refering to the astonishing ability to make peoples faces cringe in most horible ways.........

[wholagun]

If only wars were fought with Vodka -we'd own the world.

In that case, your country has no honor because Russia invented vodka. Your just a country of thieving scumbags! ;)


We'll its uncertain which country inveted Wodka (vodka).

In that case your just a country of jelous scumbags that can't handle the truth :petting: - POLES MAKE BETTER VODKA woot

[walford]

Now let's have an argument over which country's women have nicer bodies!! Here is the repository:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34135&highlight=

No Drako, I don't give up easily on such important matters.

[nagant_m44]

If only wars were fought with Vodka -we'd own the world.

In that case, your country has no honor because Russia invented vodka. Your just a country of thieving scumbags! ;)


We'll its uncertain which country inveted Wodka (vodka).

In that case your just a country of jelous scumbags that can't handle the truth :petting: - POLES MAKE BETTER VODKA woot

:bash: :bash: come on everyone knows that Polish **** is wannabe Russia stuff. Polish is wannabe Russian, Polish guns are Russian or Russian copies, Poland was part of Russia for centuries. Now as for which country has better women, .....my girlfriend is polish..........BUT Russian women are good. ;)

[walford]

Now as for which country has better women, .....my girlfriend is polish..........BUT Russian women are good. ;)I don't believe you. Need pictures.

[nagant_m44]

Now as for which country has better women, .....my girlfriend is polish..........BUT Russian women are good. ;)I don't believe you. Need pictures.

eh wat do you not believe?

[walford]

Now as for which country has better women, .....my girlfriend is polish..........BUT Russian women are good. ;)I don't believe you. Need pictures.eh wat do you not believe?That either country has pretty women. Do you have proof of this?

[nagant_m44]

Now as for which country has better women, .....my girlfriend is polish..........BUT Russian women are good. ;)I don't believe you. Need pictures.eh wat do you not believe?That either country has pretty women. Do you have proof of this?

YES i DO HAVE PROOF

Heres a Polish girl:
http://www.busty.pl/html/ewa/nastole/duze/dcp2864.jpg
http://www.busty.pl/html/bea/szafka/duze/dcp0694.jpg
http://www.busty.pl/html/bea/ewa/duze/dcp8800.jpg

eh their not the best but i got them off a Polish **** site :D
ill get the Russian girls later ;)

[walford]

Heres a Polish girl:
http://www.busty.pl/html/ewa/nastole/duze/dcp2864.jpg
http://www.busty.pl/html/bea/szafka/duze/dcp0694.jpg
http://www.busty.pl/html/bea/ewa/duze/dcp8800.jpg
eh their not the best but i got them off a Polish **** site :D ill get the Russian girls later ;)*Posting on babes thread (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34135&highlight=).*

[nagant_m44]

Heres a Polish girl:
http://www.busty.pl/html/ewa/nastole/duze/dcp2864.jpg
http://www.busty.pl/html/bea/szafka/duze/dcp0694.jpg
http://www.busty.pl/html/bea/ewa/duze/dcp8800.jpg
eh their not the best but i got them off a Polish **** site :D ill get the Russian girls later ;)*Posting on babes thread (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34135&highlight=).*

you sneaky bastard. ;) If you want more pics, then go to busty.pl, polish **** site i used. :P

[nagant_m44]

RUSSIAN girls

http://www.internaughty.com/honeys/images/191-01.jpg
http://www.internaughty.com/honeys/images/191-05.jpg
http://www.beautybabe.net/busty_beauties_70/images/Big_****_2080_08.jpg

if pics don't work, right click and put address in addressbar.

[wholagun]

eww the Polish ones are ugly - they're fat, and just not good looking.

here try this.

http://i.xanga.com/bodyofone/Milla%20Jovovich%2001.jpg

http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/MMPH/250738.jpg

http://www.webwombat.com.au/lifestyle/fashion_beauty/images/milla2.jpg

http://jackperr.free.fr/milla_jovovich_32_french_box.jpg



Ruslana we all know her p-)

http://mv.org.ua/2004/mvs/6/ruslana.jpg

http://eurovision.tvs.com/ukraine2004.jpg

[wholagun]

http://www.oriflame.com/gn1/opencms/system/galleries/pics/img/about_izabella.jpg

http://user.chollian.net/~movieland/html/actlinks/izabella.jpg

Izabella Scorupco, Bond'`s girl. :)

[walford]

Izabella Scorupco, Bond'`s girl. :)*posting on babes thread (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34135&highlight=)*

[nagant_m44]

eww the Polish ones are ugly - they're fat, and just not good looking

I got them off a tit site :D

[wholagun]

eww the Polish ones are ugly - they're fat, and just not good looking

I got them off a tit site :D

yeah she I visted that site before too. We're such horny bastards :oops: . But I don't think she is hot. In one of the pics on her site you can clearly Warsaw - palace of culture and science.

[Lokos]

Kilgor:

The Finnish invasion went badly because it happened in 1939-1940 - the time period during which the Red Army was still in the middle of the purges and massive restructuring. Or are you talking about the 1944 operation? IIRC that didn't go nearly as badly. In 1945, when Operation August Storm began, the Red Army was at its apex. Many call Operation August Storm the finest example of Blitzkrieg warfare in history.

If the Soviets wanted Finland in 1945, they could have had it in under three weeks. And I'm being generous, here.

With all due respect to Finnish martial prowess, they would have had their faces smashed in with a mallet.

Tailored shock groups + unlimited artillery support + air supremacy = victory.

Regards,
Lokos

[mack pl]

Polish is wannabe Russian

hell no :lol:


Poland was part of Russia for centuries.

ekhm....only part of Poland, between 1795-1918...only 123 years :lol:

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

a typical Polish-Russian conversation:
- starts with political BS
- ends with girls and vodka :D

[nagant_m44]

ekhm....only part of Poland, between 1795-1918...only 123 years

yea well the Germans owned the rest of it. We don't need to invade to get you back, we'll just send in the guys and we'll breed you out, because no one can resist Russian guys ;)

[wholagun]

ekhm....only part of Poland, between 1795-1918...only 123 years

yea well the Germans owned the rest of it. We don't need to invade to get you back, we'll just send in the guys and we'll breed you out, because no one can resist Russian guys ;)

Germans weren't as bad - Gdansk, Breslau among other cities and towns. Mind you Gdansk is not 100% German town it was old day newyork back then.

[Zielony]

a typical Polish-Russian conversation:
- starts with political BS
- ends with girls and vodka :D

offcousre ;)..cause.. we're all SLAVs

[Herrmannek]

To add some flame to fire... its proven fact that red army doesn't have honor at all. Why? because right after war underground commanders of the AK(home army, legal underground forces of the polish military forces) were asked to go willingly to the Russia, under promise literaly warranted with honor of red army, that said commanders will not be hurt in any way while in Russia and they will be let back. Yet half of them was killed and second half prisoned for many years under wery bad conditions after one day show trial, and tortured before for much longer trial took.

As we proved some basic facts we can discuss further.. So what did you said my russian friends?

[wholagun]

To add some flame to fire

very poetic herman :D . Between me and you, the saying goes "add some fuel to the fire" p-)

nie skodzi muj pisany Polski jest do dupy. We're not all native speakers here.

[nagant_m44]

To add some flame to fire... its proven fact that red army doesn't have honor at all. Why? because right after war underground commanders of the AK(home army, legal underground forces of the polish military forces) were asked to go willingly to the Russia, under promise literaly warranted with honor of red army, that said commanders will not be hurt in any way while in Russia and they will be let back. Yet half of them was killed and second half prisoned for many years under wery bad conditions after one day show trial, and tortured before for much longer trial took.

As we proved some basic facts we can discuss further.. So what did you said my russian friends?

That was not the fault of the Red Army. We all know that stalin was just a little bit paranoid. He didn't want the same people fighting against him in the future.

[Zielony]

it was so beautyfull.... VODKA... GIRLS.... :lol:

a bit Paranoid ;) JUST a bit... ok

[nagant_m44]

Didn't your "hero" Dymitr Samozwaniec lie and say he was the sucessor to the Tzar that died? ;) The ONLY time btw that the poles had anything on the Russians. ;)

[Herrmannek]

Didn't your "hero" Dymitr Samozwaniec lie and say he was the sucessor to the Tzar that died? ;) The ONLY time btw that the poles had anything on the Russians. ;)

But he wasn't promising on the honor of polish army... :)

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

Didn't your "hero" Dymitr Samozwaniec lie and say he was the sucessor to the Tzar that died? ;) The ONLY time btw that the poles had anything on the Russians. ;)

There were two of them to be exact- when the first one died of poisoning another appeared :) and both of them claimed to be the lost son of Ivan the Terrible.

[Tream]

The ONLY time btw that the poles had anything on the Russians.

*cough 1920 and some years later (don't remember exactly) going to Kiev with Pilsudski cough*

:P Btw. All Slavic girls are just mmmmmmmmmmmm. Our vodka is the best in the world, why are we fighting with each other. Let's get the world totally drunk with our vodka....
Let's make our girls happy, and ourselves too . Yupiiiii :}

[nagant_m44]

[quote=nagant_m44]Didn't your "hero" Dymitr Samozwaniec lie and say he was the sucessor to the Tzar that died? ;) The ONLY time btw that the poles had anything on the Russians. ;)

There were two of them to be exact- when the first one died of poisoning another appeared :) and both of them claimed to be the lost son of Ivan the Terrible.[/quote

and he was chopped up and shot out of a canon :D

[Zielony]

and he was chopped up and shot out of a canon :D
I love this episode of Polish history :lol: DIMITRIADY I've had it on my matura :) exam hehe

[Herrmannek]

I hate rusofiles :)

[Brzeczyszczykiewicz]

and he was chopped up and shot out of a canon :D
I love this episode of Polish history :lol: DIMITRIADY I've had it on my matura :) exam hehe

yeah whole XVIIth century rocks woot

[Zielony]

I hate rusofiles :)
hmm Rusofiles.... ;) they are every where... don't you know that.... but you know.. I didn't told you that.. :lol:

yeah whole XVIIth century rocks
well it was funny sometimes :)

[nagant_m44]

I hate rusofiles :)

deep down, all poles are rusofiles ;)

[Herrmannek]

I hate rusofiles :)

deep down, all poles are rusofiles ;)
:lol:

[mack pl]

I hate rusofiles :)

deep down, all poles are rusofiles ;)
:lol:

1st April joke....lame joke ;)

[Herrmannek]

I hate rusofiles :)

deep down, all poles are rusofiles ;)
:lol:

1st April joke....lame joke ;)
you deny? I afraid that thing can jump out of your chest anytime anywhere...and I have no cattle prod nearby...

[mack pl]

you deny? I afraid that thing can jump out of your chest anytime anywhere...and I have no cattle prod nearby...

do I deny being a rusophile? Well, im not rusophile...and Im not rusophobe :lol:

[walford]

a typical Polish-Russian conversation:
- starts with political BS
- ends with girls and vodka :DWell then it's still unbalanced: Less politics, more girls.

[nagant_m44]

fine walford, here are some russian girls :D
http://www.pretty-sexy.com/image/03.jpg
http://magic-model.com/pics/fotos/chernova-1.jpg
http://magic-model.com/pics/fotos/semionova-3.jpg
http://magic-model.com/pics/fotos/soboleva-5.jpg
http://magic-model.com/pics/fotos/grishkan-8.jpg
http://magic-model.com/pics/fotos/koneva-6.jpg
http://magic-model.com/pics/fotos/kosianenko-4.jpg