Some nice personal pics of an Israeli combat soldier!!!

[IDFM203]

Someone here had PM’d me (btw thanks to that person :D ) about these pics on another site and I thought that you guys might like them here. I mean this is militaryphotos.net after all (don’t worry I am in contact with this soldier, he allowed me to post them).

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/2.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/3.jpg

and with the tavor

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/7.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/6.jpg

shalom :D

[Seoulstriker]

nice photos, man! woot woot

[Guttorm]

Wohoo... The Tavor? I've never SEEN that gun before!
Tell me about it! Please please please!!! Pretty please!?

[radon]

The boots look strange

[Seoulstriker]

The boots look strange

not military issue?

[IDFM203]

Wohoo... The Tavor? I've never SEEN that gun before!
Tell me about it! Please please please!!! Pretty please!? ok only because you asked so nicley ;)

there have been a few threads in the past about it.

It is the new Israeli assult rifle that is replacing the m16/m4 combinations.



The development of the new assault rifle, that should eventually replace in service the ageing M16A1, CAR-15 and IMI Galil assault rifles, began in Israel in the 1991. The new rifle was developed by the Israel Military Industries (IMI, now TAAS) company, in close cooperation with the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). This new rifle received the name of "Tavor" and the designation of TAR-21 (Tavor Assault Rifle, for 21st century). The new rifle first appeared on public in the 1998, and it had been tested by the IDF during 1999-2002. At the moment of writing (spring of 2003) there were no large purchases of the Tavor by the IDF, because of low funding, but late in the 2002 India signed an US $20M contract with IMI for undisclosed number of TAR-21 assault rifles and Galatz sniper rifles.

Israel Military Industries is launching the new family of the TAVOR assault rifles. The weapon is offered in four configurations:
· The basic design - the T.A.R-21 Tavor Assault Rifle.
· A sharp-shooting configuration is offered as a squad weapon.
· For commando, airborne, paratroopers and special rescue units, as well as tank crews, a short
· Tavor assault rifle is offered.
· Micro T.A.R is specially configured for security forces and special missions.
Tavor uses the proven, compact Bull pup design, which was optimized to best match the ergonomics and mission requirements of the modern warrior, providing natural handling, intuitive aiming from all firing positions and improved hit accuracy. Accuracy and target acquisition is enhanced, by the use of accurate aiming, through the use of an integral reflex optical reflective sight, which projects the aiming point on the center of the sight. Tavor has an attachment for additional sighting devices, such as a 3rd generation night vision sight, which can be installed with no zeroing. Tavor is gas operated, using rotating bolt action. All types use standard NATO 5.56mm ammunition (M855/SS109), accommodate a 30 round magazine and sustain a rate of fire of 750 - 900 rounds per minute, and have the following specifications.

The IDF did not stint on demands, and the IMI did its best to meet the IDF requirements. They know that any rifle that is favored by the IDF has a good chance of being purchased by foreign armies, as the Uzi was.
The new rifle is very different from other rifles. Its body is made from alloy-like metal substitutes; it is extremely lightweight, is a dark green color, and is very well insulated, so that it does not heat up after prolonged firing.
For the first time, product designers were part of the design team for the rifle. The "Formtech" company's designers, who were chosen to design the weapon's shape, were instructed to design a comfortable rifle with a futuristic look.
The Tavor was not equipped with the normal metal sight that requires closing one eye for shooting. Instead, the Tavor has an optical sight known as a "red dot." The soldier looking through the sight sees both his target and the red dot. When the red dot aligns with the target, the bullets fired will make exact hits.
The rifle can also be equipped with a dual-purpose sight: at the press of a button, the sight can be adjusted to a laser finder, so that the rifle can be fired from hip height, using the laser to illuminate the target.
The Tavor is also designed for night fighting. Night goggles can be taken from the soldier's helmet and attached to the rifle, making the red dot system effective also at night. The entire rifle was designed to be user-friendly.
The Tavor was designed to have its center of balance conveniently placed and can be adjusted in minutes for left-handed use.
All the metal parts in the rifle are specially treated to avoid rusting. To make the changeover to the new rifle easy, many parts of the Tavor are located identically to the M-16.
The only problem with the Tavor is its price - the M-16 rifles are purchased from the United States for several tens of dollars a piece, as part of US aid. The Tavor will cost several hundreds of dollars each.
Foreign armies are already interested in the new IMI product, and several designs of the rifle have been prepared, including smaller versions and a special sniper model.
10/08/2003
Israel is replacing its world-famous Uzi sub-machinegun and U.S.-supplied M-16 assault rifle with a new flagship firearm.
The design of the Tavor is based largely on lessons learned during military operations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip during the 34-month-old Al Aqsa intifada. The first Tavors, made by Israel Military Industries (IMI), have been issued to elite Israeli infantry units, part of an order of 15,000 announced last month by the Defense Ministry.
Security sources said deals were under way to sell the weapon, retailing at $1,000, to "friendly foreign clients.". "The Tavor is probably the finest assault rifle now available. Its commando variation weighs 2.8 kg (6.2lbs) compared with the Uzi's 3.7 kg and M-16's 3.4 kg. Bullets are loaded through its stock, allowing for a snub barrel.
"The Tavor would be useful anywhere where close quarters battle is the rule, and from vehicles," said Charles Cutshaw, firearms editor at Jane's International Defense Review Magazine. It has large vents to prevent dust clogs and sights allowing the shooter to aim with both eyes open. The Tavor spells the end, locally, of the M-16, a staple assault rifle supplied to Israel since the early 1970s as part of Washington's annual defense grants. The M-16 has drawn complaints. Designed for Vietnam-style tropics, it jams frequently in the desert. Many of the rifles Israel received were from military surplus and often fatigued Nonetheless, Israel long allowed the M-16 to eclipse its Uzi and another IMI-made assault rifle, the Galil, which both ended up being sold to client states in Africa and South America.

for more click on
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html
here is a few more pics
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/jenin-tavor.jpg
here is a micr version.....
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/tavor_micro.jpg

shalom :D

[IDFM203]

The boots look strangehow so??? They are awesome combat boots.

Most in the idf are black.

But special and para units get this colour

shalom :D

[Seoulstriker]

Wohoo... The Tavor? I've never SEEN that gun before!
Tell me about it! Please please please!!! Pretty please!?

http://www.imi-israel.com/imi/doa_iis.dll/Serve/item/English/1.1.2.12.2.5.html


Israel Military Industries is launching the new family of the TAVOR assault rifles. The weapon is offered in four configurations:
The basic design - the T.A.R-21 Tavor Assault Rifle.
A sharp-shooting configuration is offered as a squad weapon.
For commando, airborne, paratroopers and special rescue units, as well as tank crews, a short Tavor assault rifle is offered.
Micro T.A.R is specially configured for security forces and special missions.
Tavor uses the proven, compact Bull pup design, which was optimized to best match the ergonomics and mission requirements of the modern warrior, providing natural handling, intuitive aiming from all firing positions and improved hit accuracy. Accuracy and target acquisition is enhanced, by the use of accurate aiming, through the use of an integral reflex optical reflective sight, which projects the aiming point on the center of the sight. Tavor has an attachment for additional sighting devices, such as a 3rd generation night vision sight, which can be installed with no zeroing. Tavor is gas operated, using rotating bolt action. All types use standard NATO 5.56mm ammunition (M855/SS109), accommodate a 30 round magazine and sustain a rate of fire of 750 - 900 rounds per minute, and have the following specifications:


http://www.imi-israel.com/images/tarbig.jpg
T.A.R-21 Tavor Assault Rifle



http://www.imi-israel.com/images/commandobig.jpg
Commando Tavor Assault Rifle



http://www.imi-israel.com/images/microbig.jpg
Micro, Tavor Assault Rifle



http://www.imi-israel.com/images/sharpingbig.jpg
Sharp Shooting, Tavor Assault Rifle




Model
TAR/STAR
CTAR
MTAR

Caliber
5.56mm NATO M855 / SS109

Overall length (mm)
720
640
480

Barrel length (mm)
460
380
250

Weight empty (gr.)
2800
2700
2400

Combat weight (gr.) with: optical sight, 30 round magazine, carrying sling
3635
3535
3235

Trigger pull weight (kg)
2.5 - 4.0

Integrated sight
integral red dot + laser designator

Rifling twist
6 grooves, 1:7" RH twist

Rate of fire (RPM)
750 - 900

Operation
gas operation, rotating bolt

Muzzle velocity (m/sec)
890
860
770

Optional Accessories
Tele-converter
3rd generation night vision (no zeroing needed)
Carrying sling
20 round magazine
30 round magazine
Cleaning kit & cleaning rod
Bipod & bipod adapter
M-203 grenade launcher adapter
Arms (NATO) rails
Left hand kit (bolt)
Silencer
Various sights
Blank firing attachment & magazine
Miles adapter
Short butt pad
Short (SAR) barrel
Long (sniping) barrel

[Guttorm]

Tavor looks like a sturdy weapon. Can it be fired by lefties? Or will a leftie get the casings thrown in his face?

[budanski]

Nice Pics idfm203!!

I had some Doc Martins once. ;)

[Seoulstriker]

Tavor looks like a sturdy weapon. Can it be fired by lefties? Or will a leftie get the casings thrown in his face?

to me, it looks like the ejection port is on the left side of the weapon. someone else needs to answer this question. :|

[IDFM203]

Tavor looks like a sturdy weapon. Can it be fired by lefties? Or will a leftie get the casings thrown in his face?

to me, it looks like the ejection port is on the left side of the weapon. someone else needs to answer this question. :| Just note that I left the army about almost two years ago so I have no personal experience with this weapon.

What I do know is that this weapon can switch its ejection ports from right to left after a simple field strip. If you look closely at the pictures you will see that the other side is blocked off but it can be removed and switched around.

Now this can be done in the field and it will take like a minute.

But although that is a unique and awsome new feature, the tavor has the problem as do other bullpop weapons in terms of switching from left to right or vise versa in a split second.

Now all these pics are from the earlier versions. The idf just recently announced that the whole idf infantry is getting these and I assume it is the new one. Now whether it has improved upon it or not I don’t know.

The judgments are still out on this new weapon.

So we shall see.

but overall it is a great new weapon. :D

Shalom :D

[IDFM203]

Nice Pics idfm203!!

I had some Doc Martins once. ;) I am glad you like them :D

I am sorry but I dont get your doc martin refrence :(

care to eleborate ;)

shalom my friend :D

[Seoulstriker]

Nice Pics idfm203!!

I had some Doc Martins once. ;) I am glad you like them :D

I am sorry but I dont get your doc martin refrence :(

care to eleborate ;)

shalom my friend :D


http://www.shoespot.com/images/inventory/LRGA-CH101ZBEN.jpg

relatively expensive dress boots and shoes.

[IDFM203]

Nice Pics idfm203!!

I had some Doc Martins once. ;) I am glad you like them :D

I am sorry but I dont get your doc martin refrence :(

care to eleborate ;)

shalom my friend :D


http://www.shoespot.com/images/inventory/LRGA-CH101ZBEN.jpg

relatively expensive dress boots and shoes. No, I know what doc martins are.

Those Israeli combat boots are not docs for they are boots that are made in Israel especially for the military

Ok so he thought they looked liked them. Well I didn’t get it for I did not think that they looked like them but I guess I do see some resemblance now (thanks to your pic although it is a very slight resemblance).

Shalom :D

[Seoulstriker]

Nice Pics idfm203!!

I had some Doc Martins once. ;) I am glad you like them :D

I am sorry but I dont get your doc martin refrence :(

care to eleborate ;)

shalom my friend :D


http://www.shoespot.com/images/inventory/LRGA-CH101ZBEN.jpg

relatively expensive dress boots and shoes. No, I know what doc martins are.

Those Israeli combat boots are not docs for they are boots that are made in Israel especially for the military

Ok so he thought they looked liked them. Well I didn’t get it for I did not think that they looked like them but I guess I do see some resemblance now (thanks to your pic although it is a very slight resemblance).

Shalom :D

i don't think they look like doc martens either because you should see the yellow thread line around the rubber.

[budanski]

Sorry for the late reply.

Yeah, those boots reminded me of Doc Martens.

[fred_engles]

Any idea what unit this guy is from?

[On Edit] Also, is this the latest version of the Tavor? I've heard of a newer version (NOT the tavor 2 pictured on isayeret), with iron sights and a couple other improvements, that was to be the version actually mass-issued.

[Glock]

The first Pictures Look like a SF!
Did Somebody know wich Unit?
Grearings Leo

[USMarine3521]

is that a glock I see thats holstered in his vest??

[Glock]

Yea this is a Glock 17! The Israelis Standert Sidearm is the SigSauer P226 and the Glock 17! But there also some SigSauer P228, Glock 19 ,FN HP MKIII and IMI Jericho!

Greatings Leo

[IDFM203]

greeting all :D

Ok a couple of responses.

First I repeat. I have been out of the military for close to two years and as such I have no personal experience with the tavor.

I think it is the new one but I am not sure and I don’t know specificaly what improvements were made.

What I did was I emailed this soldier and I asked him your questions and also invited him to this site so in a matter of time he can answer more questions about these personal pics of his and as to what unit he is in.

I personally guess that he is in a sayeret unit of the infantry brigades (there are all sorts of things that I notice that leads me to guess that which is unnoticeable to a non Israeli). Those pics can very well be regular infantry, though the handgun stands out as the only clear distinguishing mark that he can be perhaps sf.

Glocks are indeed prevalent in the idf (and when he responds he can tell me if that is what he had ) as well as the IMI Jericho as well as the new IMI Barak

Here is a couple of pics of the new Barak

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/handguns/barak/barak-5.gif
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/handguns/barak/barak.gif

Barak is the new Israeli Military Industries (IMI) double action combat handgun. Designed for Law Enforcement and the military community, the Barak is due to replace the older IMI Jericho 941.

Unlike the Jericho, which few of its parts were made in Italy, the Barak is an all Israeli made weapon. This insures uninterrupted supply even in hard times such as now, when European countries are holding back military oriented sales to Israel.

The weapon was officially introduced by IMI in May 2002, and is due to enter productions at late 2002. It will be market in Israel as well as abroad, with special attention to the U.S. market.

The new handgun features several modifications over the Jericho design:

Semi polymer frame.

Lower recoil.

Larger safety and lever handles allowing comfortable work with gloves.

Integral frame rails to mount various optics such as flashlights and laser pointers.

De-cocker, which lower the hammer once a round is fed to the chamber.

Child proof trigger locking mechanism - each handgun is supplied with a small key that enables to lock the trigger and thus prevent unauthorized usage of the weapon.

Specifications:

Weight - 740 grams

Calibers - 9 mm, 0.40 and 0.45.

Magazine Capacity - 9 mm - 16 rounds, 0.40 - 13 rounds and 0.45 - 10 rounds.

Estimated price - 550$-600$.

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/handguns/barak/barak.htm

shalom :D

[Ratamacue]

Great pics and info idf. Thanks to you and whomever sent those pics!

[IDFM203]

Great pics and info idf. Thanks to you and whomever sent those pics! no problem mate :D I am glad you and others liked them :D

I mean hey that’s what I am here for ;)

shalom :D

[Sirpad]

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/2.jpg

Check out the sight - first i thought it's ACOG, but then i re-checked and i'm sure it's not. It has a strange red dot in the back and a rather blocky (boxed) shape. This guys is probbably from Duvdevan (Glock, red boots, nomex gloves and the background).

[One?]

Nice pics. Can you ask that person to post more pictures about his gear? Ya that might be too much to ask but IDF pictures are addictive sorry :(


Isn't the Secondary weapon for Duvdevan the P226?

[Marxist203]

The Tavor is pretty futuristic looking...of course, this is the future as far as things are concerned. I saw the T.A.V. 21 in a low budget Canadian Sci-Fi movie, its was pretty good actually. It was a combat force assembled by a post apocalyptic overlord to go steal supplies from a high tech building some where, they used "Pulse Rifles" IE Tavors and Power Armour. First Sci-Fi movie I've ever seen where they used Power Armour.

Anyway! Tavors are cool.

[IDFM203]

Nice pics woot . Can you ask that person to post more pictures about his gear? Ya that might be too much to ask but IDF pictures are addictive sorry :(I knew you would like them. (I am sure the other members are staring in bewilderment, but they don’t know that we speak often through PM and that you have told me that you like IDF stuff already) I was thinking of PM you again but I didn’t hear from my last one so I figured to wait.

I did email him to come here.

Oh and there is nothing to be sorry about for I too share your addiction ;) I mean there is only so much I can do with my own pics. I like to see others as well.

shalom :D

[IDFM203]

The Tavor is pretty futuristic looking...of course, this is the future as far as things are concerned. I saw the T.A.V. 21 in a low budget Canadian Sci-Fi movie, its was pretty good actually. It was a combat force assembled by a post apocalyptic overlord to go steal supplies from a high tech building some where, they used "Pulse Rifles" IE Tavors and Power Armour. First Sci-Fi movie I've ever seen where they used Power Armour.

Anyway! Tavors are cool. do you have a link or a name to that movie??

shalom :D

[IDFM203]

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/2.jpg

This guys is probbably from Duvdevan (Glock, red boots, nomex gloves and the background). Yeah but they get the tavor?? I thought that perhaps at first it could have been them due to the handgun but after seeing the tavor pic I guessed a sayeret from the infantry brigades.

But you could be right.

Shalom :D

[fred_engles]

Check out the sight - first i thought it's ACOG, but then i re-checked and i'm sure it's not. It has a strange red dot in the back and a rather blocky (boxed) shape. Hmm, I'd be curious to know what that optic is. For that matter, what's this optic?
http://www.idf.il/idf_in_pictures/images/2003/november/dotz-17.11.03-03.jpg

[pretorian669]

HI idfm203
FINALY I GOT SOME TIME AND FOUND THIS SITE.
O.K. GUYS . ABOUT THE HANDGUN IT IS A GLOCK17C

[IDFM203]

HI idfm203
FINALY I GOT SOME TIME AND FOUND THIS SITE.
O.K. GUYS . ABOUT THE HANDGUN IT IS A GLOCK17C
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/26.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/24.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/10.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/11.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/13.jpgFirst I am happy you got my messages to come here.

Secondly nice added pics

Thirdly, I guess you have answered what unit you are in. (669) kol hakovad!! (are you in that or are you just taking picture? ;) ?)

Shalom :D

[Haiw]

Nice pics. Can you ask that person to post more pictures about his gear? Ya that might be too much to ask but IDF pictures are addictive sorry :(
Closet fan.
;)

[pretorian669]

Thirdly, I guess you have answered what unit you are in. (669) kol hakovad!![quote]
WELL NOW ,669 IS ONLY THE THIRD NEIGBOR OF THE BEAST THE TWO
APPARTMENTS NEXT TO HIM WERE TAKEN . ;)
IT IS MY NINTH YEAR IN THE SERVICE AND I'M STILL IN ACTIVE DUTY SO LETS NOT GO INTO UNITS/MISSIONS ETC. :bash:
SOME MORE PICS OF THE GUNS
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/16.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/17.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/19.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/21.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/22.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/23.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/25.jpg

[IDFM203]

to pretorian669,

Again great pics woot

As for personal information.

Yeah I hear you.
Listen I never give out detailed personal information about me or my service nor do I give out details about the idf that are not public information. So I respect and understand your rightful concern

p.s. check you PM box here for I sent you a PM after you last post.

p.p.s welcome aboard to this site.

Shalom :D

[fred_engles]

Hey Pretorian, first of all, welcome!

Since you're probably the only person on this board to have personal experience with the Tavor, how is it?

[He219]

GREAT pic's idfm203 and pretorian669!

woot


Welcome to the board, pretorian669!
:D

So what was that scope with the red knob?

[pretorian669]

Hey Pretorian, first of all, welcome!

Since you're probably the only person on this board to have personal experience with the Tavor, how is it?

I AM PREPARING A REVIEW OF THE TAVOR VS OTHER I.D.F. RIFLES IN USE AND TAVOR VS OTHER BULLPUP RIFLES,AUG/FAMAS/L85/SAR21/PALO/FNF2000/VECTOR/MINI 14withMUZZLITE/BUSHMASTER M17/BULLPUP AK/CHINESE BULLPUP/DAWOO ETC,FOR ANOTHER FORUM.
WHEN READY I'LL POST IT HERE TO IF YOU'D LIKE.



So what was that scope with the red knob?

EXPERIMENTAL 4 POWER SCOPE . RED KNOB - RELEASE BUTTON FOR NIGHT VISION SCOPE ADDAPTER

[kinghk]

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/jenin-tavor.jpg


Yuk. Bull-pup rifles are always ugly, and the Tavor is no exception.

[IDFM203]

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/jenin-tavor.jpg


Yuk. Bull-pup rifles are always ugly, and the Tavor is no exception.Hey taste in beauty and style is an individual thing.

I mean I and others hate the way the ak47 looks but yet they say its a good weapon ;)

I personally think the tavor looks awesome but of course I am a bit partial in my view here ;)

Anyways, the idf builds weapons based more on practicality and function rather then on looks.

I couldn’t give a rats a** if this weapon looked ugly (in your opinion) but functioned great, for the functionality and usefulness of this weapon is all that matters.

Shalom :D

[fred_engles]

I AM PREPARING A REVIEW OF THE TAVOR VS OTHER I.D.F. RIFLES IN USE AND TAVOR VS OTHER BULLPUP RIFLES,AUG/FAMAS/L85/SAR21/PALO/FNF2000/VECTOR/MINI 14withMUZZLITE/BUSHMASTER M17/BULLPUP AK/CHINESE BULLPUP/DAWOO ETC,FOR ANOTHER FORUM.
WHEN READY I'LL POST IT HERE TO IF YOU'D LIKEYes, please do.

Oh, and no offense, but could you please not type in all capitals?

[Deicide]

Wohoo... The Tavor? I've never SEEN that gun before!
Tell me about it! Please please please!!! Pretty please!?

Right-click (http://www.defensereview.com/4_25_2003/tavortar21.mpg) here to download and view the Tavor TAR-21 Commando Carbine/Tavor-2 Subcarbine video.

[kinghk]

[
Anyways, the idf builds weapons based more on practicality and function rather then on looks.



Hmm, does IDF build weapons?, I thought it was IMI who were the manufacturer.

[UoUo]

IMI...part of the IDF.

I.M.I. Israel Military Industries

[A.S.]

IMI (http://www.imi.co.il) is not a part of IDF.


Israel Military Industries Ltd. (IMI)


Israel Military Industries (IMI) is the first defense equipment manufacturer in Israel, established in 1933 to provide self-defense equipment for the State of Israel.

Having worked hand-in-hand with the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) for more than fifty years, IMI scientists, designers and developers, most of whom have served in the IDF, are able to provide innovative products that confer an operational edge to their users.

In a vast number of areas, from small arms and ammunition to armor, from airborne equipment to heavy ammunition, and from electronics and system engineering to rockets and advanced systems, IMI continues to look for creative solutions that give performance time and again to provide its customers with the competitive edge.

[IDFM203]

Oops yes AS thanks for clearing that up. Of course I knew that but just found it simpler to say the idf.

However it is important to note, that IMI is a government owned company and it does most of its stuff for the idf so they really are hand in hand together on everything.

But yeah next time I will just say Israel and keep it non-specific for it somehow confuses people a bit.

Shalom :D

[Undo]

Shalom, my friends.

The guys over at Isayeret seem to have a different oppinion of the Tavor, but this info may be dated. I do fully appreciate what they say about the CQB situation. You can't always be hugging the left wall. Any comments about the Isayeret assessment?

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/status.htm


Stay safe.

[IDFM203]

Shalom, my friends.

The guys over at Isayeret seem to have a different oppinion of the Tavor, but this info may be dated. I do fully appreciate what they say about the CQB situation. You can't always be hugging the left wall. Any comments about the Isayeret assessment?

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/status.htm


Stay safe. yes like I said before on anther thread. A, isayeret is not any official site. It is a site that is run by former soldiers and as such it is their opinion and theirs only. It is a great site but not everything they say is totally accurate. Although agin, it is a great military site.

Secondly, their information is a bit dated for the idf has come out with the latest tavor with which the idf is starting to hand out to all infantry in place of the M16/m4 combinations.

Thirdly, the tavor as I understand it, does have a unique feature in that it can be field stripped in less then a minute to where you can change the ejection ports from right side to a left side and vice-versa….But yes as for split second conversation, the tavor has the same problem as a lot of other bullpop rifles.

Lastly, we have in the first pictures on this thread a soldier who has experience with it (I left two years ago and as such I do not have any personal experience with it) so I am sure he can give more details about this new Israeli weapon.


Shalom my friend :D

[ArmoredDov_D9]

IDFm203, great pictures!

Few notes:
- Usually, Israeli SF units purchase weapons indidually per unit so you can find there some really rare weapons that are not used by the rest of the IDF.
- The Tavor designed primerally as an assult rifle (i.e. field battles) and not as CQB rifle.

[ogukuo72]

is that a glock I see thats holstered in his vest??
Indeed. It looks like a Glock 17. Is this fella police or army?

[pretorian669]

USMarineDEP wrote:
is that a glock I see thats holstered in his vest??

Indeed. It looks like a Glock 17. Is this fella police or army?

Hi .It's me on the picture its a glock 17C and I'm in the ARMY.

[AirZone]

USMarineDEP wrote:
is that a glock I see thats holstered in his vest??

Indeed. It looks like a Glock 17. Is this fella police or army?

Hi .It's me on the picture its a glock 17C and I'm in the ARMY.
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/24.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/10.jpg

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/8.jpg

Kick ass pics, thanks :hug:

btw - its the new american BDU that the idf soldiers can only wear in the bases ?

[pretorian669]

Kick ass pics, thanks

btw - its the new american BDU that the idf soldiers can only wear in the bases ?
_________________
כל הכבוד לצהל !

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/33.jpg

[pretorian669]

Kick ass pics, thanks

btw - its the new american BDU that the idf soldiers can only wear in the bases ?
_________________
כל הכבוד לצהל !
We use all kind of camo gear but only on special occasions like weddings,holydays,Iraq,Afhganisthan etc. ;)

[pretorian669]

test

[AirZone]

WOW... חבל על הזמן ;)

btw - hows the micro galil ? i thought only S13 use it... (you dont need to answer if you cant becuase of the "batash")

[pretorian669]

btw - hows the micro galil ? i thought only S13 use it... (you dont need to answer if you cant becuase of the "batash")


We use the latest model of the Micro Galil with picatiny/weaver rail over the gas tube for reflex sights and the charging handle on the left.
I do have a video file of me shooting the micro in semi/long burst/short burst but the problem is i cant upload the hole file for security reasons.
I you know a simple video editing program i could use to cut the relevant scene i could upload/send you the file by e-mail .

p.s. The greatest thing about this gun was the great trigger.
I could easely shoot two round bursts in full auto.

[AirZone]

yeah i heard about the new model.. micro galil tactical or some thing like that...

btw i would love to see the video
check pm for my email please ;)

[Tiger]

Nice pics ! :D

http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/jenin-tavor.jpg

What is the optic on this Tavor ? Aimpoint + Bushnell Holosight ? And why did he use two optics ?

[pretorian669]

You can atach NV or 3X/4X scope behind the MARS. In tha case of NV You use it together with the red point or IR laser of theMARS.If you mount a scope behind the mars like in the picture(compact acog i think) you simply turn the mars off(if you don't want to see a huge red donut :lol: )
and take an aim with the scope. It does reduce the light gathering a little bit but the MARS still stays zeroed(red dot and laser).

Nice pics !



What is the optic on this Tavor ? Aimpoint + Bushnell Holosight ? And why did he use two optics ?

[Tiger]

Thanks. ;)

[IDFM203]

Shalom.

Again great pics.......

When I was in the military (before two year ago) we had used the "chalifat hatsvah" and other things that go over the BDU’s like in this picture(which is not me but I used that and have similar pics just I am not that comfortable posting my pics on here...I mean there are a lot of kids on this site ;) )

http://www.isayeret.com/camo/camo-7.jpg
http://www.isayeret.com/camo/camo-8.jpg
or when you reverse it
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/micell/stinger/stinger-3.jpg

now in your pic, am I seeing this as BDU pants and not as something that goes over the BDU's is that what I am seeing?!?(practically stating the obvious ;) )

quote="pretorian669"http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/37.jpg

shalom :D

[pretorian669]

HI
IT'S A BDU -4 POCKET PANTS 'TWO POCKET SHIRT WITH MASK ATTACHED ,MODULAR VEST WITH BALLISTIC PLATES...

[pretorian669]

... SOME MORE PICS...

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/39492/17.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/39492/21.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/39492/15.jpg

[IDFM203]

to pretorian669

Wow!!!! Where were those when I was in the military (“sadir”)?!?

Are those reversible like with the "suits" that we had?!?

If not, is there desert camo pants in the BDU's as well?!?

Again great pics…..keep them coming!!!!! :D

Also about the tavor, as you know I have no experience with it (left the army two years ago)so I too am curious to know your experience with it. (I knew some one who was involved in the testing of it but that was over two years ago and the tavor has improved since then….right?!?)

Shalom :D

[One?]

IDFM203 because you brought this guy on this website I will stop arguing with you :lol:

Dammit these are some nice suites, anyways does that mean the old suites will hit the surplus stores? Or are they gonna remain in the hands of the IDF??????


Do you have pouches for that modular vest in the same camo pattern? or would you use US stuff?

[IDFM203]

IDFM203 because you brought this guy on this website I will stop arguing with you :lol: what, I thought we were enjoying our debates ;) ;) ……at least I was ;) :D

I am happy you like his pics and the Israeli stuff for I sure as hell do!! :D


Dammit these are some nice suites, anyways does that mean the old suites will hit the surplus stores? Or are they gonna remain in the hands of the IDF?????? when (well if ;)) peace finally comes to the Middle East we can open up a store in Beirut where you can get whatever Israeli product you want ;) :D

As far as I know the “suits” that I had and the one now is not going to be in surplus stores as is other idf products.

Like I told you in a PM once, be careful as to what you buy on the net or in surplus stores for there are a lot (not all or everything, but......) of imitations or very old stuff that is made for tourists.


Do you have pouches for that modular vest in the same camo pattern? or would you use US stuff? everything in my pictures that I brought down or in his, is Israeli made (except the M4 and the pic with the U.S. desert BDU) and in that respect I can only assume that there is Israeli stuff for the modualr vest as well.

When I was there we had that same modular vest just with out those elastic bands going across from them. Then those that had them would wear an Israeli reconnaissance vest over it (like these vests. http://www.isayeret.com/vest/recon.htm )

I personally didn’t have that. I had the new “unified ceramic vast” as seen here http://www.isayeret.com/vest/ceramic.htm

But geez what a difference two years makes :o …………I am interested in this new stuff as much as you are :D

That’s all I can do until he responds….I hope it helps……

shalom :D

[pretorian669]

HI EVERYONE


Are those reversible like with the "suits" that we had?!?

If not, is there desert camo pants in the BDU's as well?!?




YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE STANDARD IDF SNIPER CAMO OVERSUITS
WICH ARE REVERSIBLE FROM "WOODLAND" PATTERN TO DESERT

THE ONES I WEAR ARE NON REVERSIBLE BDU 'S AVAILABLE IN BOTH PATTERNS




Dammit these are some nice suites, anyways does that mean the old suites will hit the surplus stores? Or are they gonna remain in the hands of the IDF??????

THE CAMO BDU I WEAR ARE CUSTOM MADE FOR MY UNIT AND THE "OLD" SUITS ARE STILL STANDARD ISSUE TO REGULAR UNITS.



Do you have pouches for that modular vest in the same camo pattern?

YES.


As far as I know the “suits” that I had and the one now is not going to be in surplus stores as is other idf products.

DEAR IDFM203 -I HAVE TO DISAGREE . THE IDF ISN'T PRODUCING ANYTHING. THE EQUIPMENT IS MADE BY IMI OR IN THIS CASE BY A PRIVATE FIRM.IN MY EXPERIENCE SHORT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS ISRAELIS WILL SELL EVERYTHING FOR THE RIGHT PRICE TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE.
THE STANDARD REVERSIBLE SNIPER SUITS WERE RUNNING TWO YERS AGO IN A SECURITY EXPO FOR LESS THEN 100 $


But geez what a difference two years makes …………I am interested in this new stuff as much as you are

DEAR IDFM203 - DON'T FEEL SUCH AN OLD VETERAN :( YOUR SUITS ARE STILL IN SERVICE IN REGULAR UNITS ;)

[IDFM203]

As far as I know the “suits” that I had and the one now is not going to be in surplus stores as is other idf products.”
DEAR IDFM203 -I HAVE TO DISAGREE . THE IDF ISN'T PRODUCING ANYTHING. THE EQUIPMENT IS MADE BY IMI OR IN THIS CASE BY A PRIVATE FIRM. No I know that. I made the same lazy mistake before and I corrected it and I forgot to do that here again. As in a previous post here on this thread when someone pointed this out to me and I responded” Oops yes AS thanks for clearing that up. Of course I knew that but just found it simpler to say the idf.

However it is important to note, that IMI is a government owned company and it does most of its stuff for the idf so they really are hand in hand together on everything.

But yeah next time I will just say Israel and keep it non-specific for it somehow confuses people a bit.”

So again I did the same lazy mistake.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes here ;)



IN MY EXPERIENCE SHORT OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS ISRAELIS WILL SELL EVERYTHING FOR THE RIGHT PRICE TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE.
THE STANDARD REVERSIBLE SNIPER SUITS WERE RUNNING TWO YERS AGO IN A SECURITY EXPO FOR LESS THEN 100 $ yeah I hear you. Well I guess when I went into the surplus stores in Israel or searched on the net I had trouble locating them. From what I have seen a lot of the stuff is imitation or old

But hey I cant comment on the expo and if they have them there then forward that information to our “hetsballh” friend “one” on how to get one of these for he loves Israeli gear (honestly) :D

”But geez what a difference two years makes …………I am interested in this new stuff as much as you are”

DEAR IDFM203 - DON'T FEEL SUCH AN OLD VETERAN :( YOUR SUITS ARE STILL IN SERVICE IN REGULAR UNITS ;) believe me I feel ancient after two years :|

As for regular units commant. Yeah very cute ;) but I wasn’t in one of those as well as I wasn’t in one of your type of units as well but that’s confusing for here but on the other site its explained more.

But nonetheless I appreciated your comment for it brought back sentimental memories on all the inter rivalries that goes on :D

With that said stop pretending that you’re in one of these units and come clear already that you are just a photographer for “bemachana” ;) (the IDF magazine that’s given out to soldiers, similar to what the Americans get with the “stars and stripes” magazine)

Oh and again great pics!!!!!!!!!! :D

P.S. I love you man ;) but you got to cut out that capital lettering that you use!

shalom :D

[pretorian669]

With that said stop pretending that you’re in one of these units and come clear already that you are just a photographer for “bemachana” (the IDF magazine that’s given out to soldiers, similar to what the Americans get with the “stars and stripes” magazine)

Honestly I'm a cook with a digital camera and an internet account :roll:

[IDFM203]

Honestly I'm a cook with a digital camera and an internet account :roll: Honestly "achi" I was joking, hence the ;) next to it!!!

Oh so now your a cook? ;)

shalom my friend :hug: :D

[pretorian669]

P.S. I love you man but you got to cut out that capital lettering that you use!

I'M SORRY I SHOUT BECUASE THE DAMN HELICOPTER ROTTOR AND THE MACHINEGUN FIRE BEHIND MY FIELD LAPTOP :lol:

[IDFM203]

P.S. I love you man but you got to cut out that capital lettering that you use!

I'M SORRY I SHOUT BECUASE THE DAMN HELICOPTER ROTTOR AND THE MACHINEGUN FIRE BEHIND MY FIELD LAPTOP :lol: In that case your fully excused ;) keep on typing from the battle field ;) :D oh and in that case you can shout all you want ;) :D

shalom :D

[pretorian669]

O.K. now switcing back to professional mod.

or when you reverse it
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/micell/stinger/stinger-3.jpg

This is not the revers side of the suit its the big desert pattern used on the big camo nets used to cover equipment and APC's,tans,etc.

B.T.W. Israelis still have much to learn about camouflage. The two Stinger operators on your pic just had to ruin the hole idea of blending in desert area with that shinning CAR15 and green vest with the backpack.
UNPROFESSIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. the camo net rolled up and attached under the back pack IS
the desert side of the sniper suit.
P.P.S. I'm out of ammo and we landed so i'm back to regular lettering :lol:

[IDFM203]

O.K. now switcing back to professional mod.

or when you reverse it
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/micell/stinger/stinger-3.jpg

This is not the revers side of the suit its the big desert pattern used on the big camo nets used to cover equipment and APC's,tans,etc. I am sorry But I am going to I have to disagree with you a bit (only this once hopefully ;) :D )

from what I can tell from that picture, those were some of the same suits amongst other types that we had!! and it is reversible. Now if it’s the same as those nets well perhaps its the same material but those are reversible

We also had the ones in the other pics as well!!!!

Gee now I am really feeling old!!!! :| I mean tell me you have seen them close up!! Are they out of the military already? :roll:

also I never said that they were sniper "suits"!!!!



B.T.W. Israelis still have much to learn about camouflage. true, but we have come along way. Heck before five or ten years the IDF had none of this but just the olive green colour and that was it.



The two Stinger operators on your pic just had to ruin the hole idea of blending in desert area with that shinning CAR15 and green vest with the backpack.
UNPROFESSIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A, that is not my pic (as I explained that I don’t post my pics yet on this site)……that is from the isayeret website.

B, as you know some of those “suits” are supposed to go over those green vests. Here is just a training op and for whatever reason the operator did not do that.


As for the weapons, well yeah that is a problem, but there are camo material that goes on weapons that various units use.
Or some that use paint as I am sure you know!!


Listen most of the combat areas that Israel faces are not Vietnam type jungle settings and as such there is no need for those elaborate guile suits. I think these Israeli style suits work just great for most (note not all, but most) of the environments that we face.


Nonetheless I am glad that you are here for I always appreciate another fellow soldiers imput.

P.S. I am happy that you are back safe and sound ;) :D

Shalom :D

[pretorian669]

O.K. now switcing back to professional mod.

or when you reverse it
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/micell/stinger/stinger-3.jpg

This is not the revers side of the suit its the big desert pattern used on the big camo nets used to cover equipment and APC's,tans,etc. I am sorry But I am going to I have to disagree with you a bit (only this once hopefully ;) :D )

from what I can tell from that picture, those were some of the same suits amongst other types that we had!! and it is reversible. Now if it’s the same as those nets well perhaps its the same material but those are reversible

We also had the ones in the other pics as well!!!!

Gee now I am really feeling old!!!! :| I mean tell me you have seen them close up!! Are they out of the military already? :roll:

also I never said that they were sniper "suits"!!!!



B.T.W. Israelis still have much to learn about camouflage. true, but we have come along way. Heck before five or ten years the IDF had none of this but just the olive green colour and that was it.



The two Stinger operators on your pic just had to ruin the hole idea of blending in desert area with that shinning CAR15 and green vest with the backpack.
UNPROFESSIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A, that is not my pic (as I explained that I don’t post my pics yet on this site)……that is from the isayeret website.

B, as you know some of those “suits” are supposed to go over those green vests. Here is just a training op and for whatever reason the operator did not do that.


As for the weapons, well yeah that is a problem, but there are camo material that goes on weapons that various units use.
Or some that use paint as I am sure you know!!


Listen most of the combat areas that Israel faces are not Vietnam type jungle settings and as such there is no need for those elaborate guile suits. I think these Israeli style suits work just great for most (note not all, but most) of the environments that we face.


Nonetheless I am glad that you are here for I always appreciate another fellow soldiers imput.

P.S. I am happy that you are back safe and sound ;) :D

Shalom :D


I am not talking about the suits they are wearing Iam talking about the camo pattern on them
Both camo nets are reversible all I am saying that the nets in "woodland"
type camo reverse to the small pattern desert camo and not to the big pattern desert camo like in the pictures of the stinger team.
Belive me dude i got them all(standard issue kitcen equipment :lol: )

[IDFM203]

I am not talking about the suits they are wearing Iam talking about the camo pattern on them
Both camo nets are reversible all I am saying that the nets in "woodland"
type camo reverse to the small pattern desert camo and not to the big pattern desert camo like in the pictures of the stinger team. yeah I know that. I obviously misunderstood what you said before or your writing wasn’t clear about that ;)


Belive me dude i got them all(standard issue kitcen equipment :lol: ) Oh so now I am dude ;) :lol:

Yeah as per your kitchen equipment, do you have the “chefs hat” (“mitsnefet”) as well :lol: (yeah I know it means clown hat but you get my point :D )

oh and please post more pictures of more "kitchen equipment", keep em coming!! :D

P.S. nice avator pic :D ( I don’t doubt you for a second, I am just waiting to hear your experiences with the tavor already….seriously I am very interested!!)

Shalom :D

[pretorian669]

They are two different desert camo patterns the second one is much bigger and has much less black in it.

[IDFM203]

Yes I know that!!.....if you go read my posts over again you will see that I have acknowledged that there are different “suits”

Nice pics anyways :D

Oh, and still waiting for the tavor stuff ;)

Shalom :hug:

[IDFM203]

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/109328/7.jpg
BTW I am just curious....thats you in the picture??

shalom :D

[pretorian669]

Oh I'm sorry i must have had typing while you were replying and did not see your reply.
About the tavor- I am preparing a detailed review of the tavor vs other AR's in use by Israel and tavor vs other bullpup rifles.
It is going to take some time meanwhile i need some help about it.
Tell me (and also ask other guys on the subject) what would you like this review to include?

[pretorian669]

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/109328/7.jpg
BTW I am just curious....thats you in the picture??

shalom :D
No its a commercial picture from a israeli firm(Marom Dolphine i think)

[IDFM203]

Tell me (and also ask other guys on the subject) what would you like this review to include? wow that’s a loaded question… ;)

People are going to have tons of questions (I assume) for there were debates about the tavor and other bullpup assault rifles


For me personally the one question I am curious and what I get asked a lot is in “lashab” or MOUT or CQB training or missions, how does the tavor overcome the split second switching from side to side(when needed) if the ejection port is where its at????

As for all the other information and comparisons, yeah bring that down as well.

I suggest that if you are going to go in detail then perhaps you start a new thread about the tavor and answer it in the equipment and gear section of this forum….just a suggestion :D

As for that pic, yeah I thought so. I had seen it there but being that it was from your hosting service I though that it was perhaps you.

Oh and now that you reminded me about that site, yeah I think you can get those “suits" there as well( although not sure)

Shalom and again glad that you’re here :hug:

[pretorian669]

Yes I remember now it was marom-dolphin who sold those suits in the expo. They have the suits on their web site
http://www.marom-dolphin.co.il/
If someone is intrested contact them directly or send me an e-mail and i"ll call them.
I also know there are other firms who make them as well.

[fantassin]

The boots are made by the israeli "noga" boots factory.

As for the Tavor, I am glad my US friends like it since they'll be paying for them with their taxes !

They'll be made in the US just to make sure they are composed of at least 40% US parts so as to qualify for the US Foreign Military Sales program which virtually "gives" weapons to US allies.

Can't wait for idfm203 to prove me how wrong I am !

[pretorian669]

As for the Tavor, I am glad my US friends like it since they'll be paying for them with their taxes !

They'll be made in the US just to make sure they are composed of at least 40% US parts so as to qualify for the US Foreign Military Sales program which virtually "gives" weapons to US allies.

Can't wait for idfm203 to prove me how wrong I am !

Hi .
Are you talking about the deal with BARETT inc.

[S'13]

They'll be made in the US just to make sure they are composed of at least 40% US parts so as to qualify for the US Foreign Military Sales program which virtually "gives" weapons to US allies.

If this is true then it is good for America as well as for Israel.

[IDFM203]

The boots are made by the israeli "noga" boots factory.

As for the Tavor, I am glad my US friends like it since they'll be paying for them with their taxes !

They'll be made in the US just to make sure they are composed of at least 40% US parts so as to qualify for the US Foreign Military Sales program which virtually "gives" weapons to US allies.

Can't wait for idfm203 to prove me how wrong I am ! nope for once your somewhat right!!

It is all out of that 3 billion a year that Israel gets from the U.S.(remember that Israel’s military spending is around 15 billion a year so it surly appreciates that help)!!!

Oh remember what I told you on the other thread. Don’t be hypocritical (as you were there) and come in and complain about all these off topic debates when here you go again bringing up something that was off topic (as it relates to the intentions of this thread) and something with which you thought were inflammatory.

We are talking about the tavor and other Israeli equipment here and other products (like camo and etc….) not about your personal anti Israel agenda.

Do it on the general discussion section if you want, not here!!!

Shalom :D

[fantassin]

No agenda, just facts.

As for the Barrett deal, sorry, I have no info on that.

[IDFM203]

No agenda, just facts.
yeah we all know those facts (that Israel gets funding and weapons from the U.S, and also that Israel spends its own money as well and makes its own weapons as well) but what’s the point, if no agenda, of bringing it here especially with your aggressive tone in this thread that was strictly a discussion on a soldiers pictures and its equipment in it

Not about where the funding is coming from for that... :roll:


If you want to discuss funding which is a off topic political issue, go do it in the general discussion area, not in here!!


Shalom :D

[pretorian669]

ENYONE NEED A CIGARETE??? :backhand:

[pretorian669]

BTW Does enyone know if BARETT is already selling that butt-ugly civillian version of the tavor in the states?

[One?]

Yes I remember now it was marom-dolphin who sold those suits in the expo. They have the suits on their web site
http://www.marom-dolphin.co.il/
If someone is intrested contact them directly or send me an e-mail and i"ll call them.
I also know there are other firms who make them as well.


woot I can finaly complete my IDF setup.

[Golani68]

one
I know the guys at Morom dolphin
and he got no suit at the moment
they will be making some soon

After all you said before on this site before
I cannot belive you collect IDF gear

[tomcat1974]

Sory to bring this up...Is an old topic I know but ....it seems that TAR-21 TAVOR was selected to be the military standard infantery weapon for the Romanian Army. In Dec 2003 first batch was aquired and supplied to the 21th Mountain Hunters Battalion for intensive testing in mountaineous warfare. It seems that it will enter in operation this year.

So .. how is the Tavor comparing with Pistol-Mitraliera 63 (romanian AKM)?
I know it is better, but how better?

[IDFM203]

Sory to bring this up...Is an old topic I know but ....it seems that TAR-21 TAVOR was selected to be the military standard infantery weapon for the Romanian Army. In Dec 2003 first batch was aquired and supplied to the 21th Mountain Hunters Battalion for intensive testing in mountaineous warfare. It seems that it will enter in operation this year.

So .. how is the Tavor comparing with Pistol-Mitraliera 63 (romanian AKM)?
I know it is better, but how better?Yes your bringing up a old topic, but who cares, you added something new and constructive that pertains to it and that is all that matters (though yes I was surprised to see this thread brought up again ;) )

As for comparing the two weapons, I wouldn’t be able to do so, though I would be interested in seeing any pics of the Tavor in Romanian hands (remember this is in the Photos section after all ;) )

Shalom :D

[tomcat1974]

well that is the problem yet... there is no public pictures ..yet only a press conference of the MOD spokesman. The picture should be public soon, after all the press is watching all military expenditure of Romanian Army.

BTW it won't be the first piece of Israel made equipamament into Romanian Army.

[IDFM203]

Ok I understand the pictures issue, though when they come don’t forget this thread ;)

As for other Israeli products in your military, well don’t hold back now, a little info (or even pics ;) ) on that would be nice to see :D (While I know a lot about a lot of different nations using Israeli stuff, your nation I am not too familiar with so any info would be much appreciated)

Shalom :D

[tomcat1974]

Ok I understand the pictures issue, though when they come don’t forget this thread ;)

As for other Israeli products in your military, well don’t hold back now, a little info (or even pics ;) ) on that would be nice to see :D (While I know a lot about a lot of different nations using Israeli stuff, your nation I am not too familiar with so any info would be much appreciated)

Shalom :D

from what I know now is something like this:

100mm Israel APFSDS here is called "Arrow";
jericho pistols
Spike antitank missile (in tests)
Kevlar helmets and flak jacket.
LAR Mk4 160mm-artilery rockets
Python 3 air-air missiles
Mig21 Lancer A,B,C radars and other equipaments
Opher, Lizard guided bombs
Litening II pod
DASH helmets
UZI submachineguns
and more perhaps

[Javehn]

100mm Israel APFSDS here is called "Arrow";

What is that ?105 or 120 or 125 mm ?

[oldsoak]

I think the Israelis manufacture ammuntion for soviet tank guns for export. I know the Israelis had a very good APFDS design ( Arrow ? ) that the Germans manufactured under licence. Sounds like the Israelis manufactured the ammuntion for the Romanian T55 series 100mm tank gun.
rgds

[Javehn]

I think the Israelis manufacture ammuntion for soviet tank guns for export. I know the Israelis had a very good APFDS design ( Arrow ? ) that the Germans manufactured under licence. Sounds like the Israelis manufactured the ammuntion for the Romanian T55 series 100mm tank gun.
rgds

Allright , yes , found an info about this . Thanks .
Funny thing , Sweden uses our tank ammunition . If only Mustamasto knew that .
And a pretty picture :
http://www.imi-israel.com/images/tankammobig.jpg
http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/imi_ammunition/1_TankAmmunitions02_NetoFla.jpg

[haze99]

Croatia has also purchased the Tavor. Who else beside Romania has adopted the Tavor?

[tomcat1974]

Sounds like the Israelis manufactured the ammuntion for the Romanian T55 series 100mm tank gun.

T55 are in very little numbers here, the base is TR-580, TR-85 and the last to come is TR-85 M1( a complectly new design still with the 100mm gun).

[NBC Trooper]

Everybody getting Tavor exept for us :cantbeli:

[cbreedon]

Someone here had PM’d me (btw thanks to that person :D ) about these pics on another site and I thought that you guys might like them here. I mean this is militaryphotos.net after all (don’t worry I am in contact with this soldier, he allowed me to post them).


http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/3.jpg


shalom :D

IDFM203

The shirt he is wearing is that a para shirt? I have a regular IDF shirt, but it looks very different. I think I heard that the Para's have a different shirt.

[Javehn]

IDFM203

The shirt he is wearing is that a para shirt? I have a regular IDF shirt, but it looks very different. I think I heard that the Para's have a different shirt.

No , that a regular IDF working uniform . Perhaps that's because all the uniforms i saw solled on the net by different collector firm were a horrible knock off .
But yes , Paratroopers have a different type of uniform then regular infantry . It's called "Yerkit" , and the shirt is worned over the pens (unlike every other , where the shirt goes inside the pens ) . The funny thing is , that it's also the uniform that women get :lol: ;)

http://www.israelmilitary.com/imp/images/bigimg36891.jpg
http://www.israelmilitary.com/imp/images/bigimg36890.jpg

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Mmm....whats this Listening II pod is it a remote sensor suite or air dropped unit, I have heard that Israel has a nice line of remote RF interception sensors using flash drives and burst transmission on command.

[cbreedon]

IDFM203

The shirt he is wearing is that a para shirt? I have a regular IDF shirt, but it looks very different. I think I heard that the Para's have a different shirt.

No , that a regular IDF working uniform . Perhaps that's because all the uniforms i saw solled on the net by different collector firm were a horrible knock off .

http://www.israelmilitary.com/imp/images/bigimg36891.jpg
http://www.israelmilitary.com/imp/images/bigimg36890.jpg

I have seen two companies that sell this stuff. Zahal.org and israelimilitary.com. Do you know if either of these places sell the "good" stuff.

[pretorian669]

Everybody getting Tavor exept for us :cantbeli:
I saw somewhere in a newspaper something about a TAVOR deal with India for 25 million dollars...
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/4.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/1.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/2.jpg

[big80a2]

hi there

I just found this on the web:
Israel to outsource optical sights for rifles from India

PTI[ MONDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2003 05:44:44 AM ]
JERUSALEM : An Israeli company plans to set up an outsourcing plant with an Indian partner in Bangalore to manufacture and maintain optical reflective sights for the Israel-made ‘Tavor’ assault rifle, Alos used by the Indian Army.


International (Laser) Technologies (ITL) is locating a suitable Indian company through its Russian contacts, said General Avi Robb, director ITL.

ITL is the exclusive supplier to the Israel defence forces of optical reflective target sights for the Tavor assault rifle produced by the Israeli military industries.

The Israel Defence Ministry recently contracted to purchase 14,000 rifles for delivery between 2004 and 2006.

The optical reflective target sights will be manufactured and assembled in Louisiana by ILT’s American subsidiary for a total $6.5 million to be paid from Israel ’s US military aid package.

The Tavor assault rifle costs $900 to produce and another $500 for the optical sights including an innovative red beam which locks onto its target.

The company is producing two upgraded versions of the optical sights equipped with interchangeable visible and undetected beams suited to counter terrorist and undercover night vision assault action, respectively

well anybody knows something about this,
lol if the makers of Rainbow six 3 would know this it would be a lot more easyer to play when using the tavor

anyway nice site woot

[big80a2]

Everybody getting Tavor exept for us :cantbeli:
I saw somewhere in a newspaper something about a TAVOR deal with India for 25 million dollars...
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/4.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/1.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/2.jpg


here is a fragment from a text found at: http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articles.html/function/view/categoryid/1948/documentid/1971/history/3,2360,1947,1948,1971

Presumably to equip these soldiers, India recently concluded a $30 million agreement with Israel Military Industries (IMI) for 3,400 Tavor assault rifles, 200 Galil sniper rifles, as well as night vision and laser range finding and targeting equipment. The purchase seems to demonstrate a broadening of the defense trade relationship beyond Indian purchase of Israeli high-tech electronic systems. For decades, New Delhi has bought most of its Air Force and Army hardware from Russia. To pay for all of this, the Indian defense budget has grown considerably and is expected to reach $100 billion in the next decade.

[IDFM203]

from what I know now is something like this:

100mm Israel APFSDS here is called "Arrow";
jericho pistols
Spike antitank missile (in tests)
Kevlar helmets and flak jacket.
LAR Mk4 160mm-artilery rockets
Python 3 air-air missiles
Mig21 Lancer A,B,C radars and other equipaments
Opher, Lizard guided bombs
Litening II pod
DASH helmets
UZI submachineguns
and more perhapsVery impressive list of Israeli products I must say (I have to admit I was a bit surprised reading this :D )

I mean amongst others, you have Israeli DASH helmets, the Litening II pod and the Python 3 (though if I may recommend a upgrade to the python 4 or even better the python 5 ;) ) out of curiosity, what kind of jets does your air force have?



Croatia has also purchased the Tavor. Who else beside Romania has adopted the Tavor? I think you (or perhaps it was someone lese) mentioned this before…..to you too, do you have any pics of it in the Croatian military?



Everybody getting Tavor exept for us :cantbeli: yeah pretty typical :( (hell I can think of a few other Israeli products that others had before us)


Anyways being that I left the military over two years ago, I think pretorian669 who is a active member and has experience with the Tavor (which I do not) can say more about the progress of the Tavor in the ranks of the IDF.

(I have some family and friends in the IDF “sadir” right now, though none of them have had the Tavor yet….then again most of them are now in tironut or those that aren’t simply haven’t received the tavor…though they like their M4’s just fine ;) )




IDFM203

The shirt he is wearing is that a para shirt? I have a regular IDF shirt, but it looks very different. I think I heard that the Para's have a different shirt.ok first of all, while I most certainly appreciate the question directed at me (as I most certainly appreciate all questions directed at me ;) ) the pic there I posted was before the person in the pic signed up. Almost immediately after I posted the pic (with his permission) this individual soldier singed up as the username pretorian669 and is a contributing member to this forum (who posts every now and then) so not to be rude or anything (and I know you did not do this intentionally or that you knew who was in the pic) but if you have a question of something in his pics, I feel a bit awkward to answer questions directed towards me when it is from his pics, especially when he is a member on this forum.

In other words what I am saying is that perhps its better to ask the question to no one in specific or direct it at him when it is something in his pics.

Anyways Javehn answered it somewhat.
From the pic you showed it looks like a regular IDF BDU.

There is no special BDU for paratroopers. The only special uniform is the “Modah aleph’s” (I believe in English they are called the dress uniforms or the class A’s though not sure about it). In the IDF you get the regular BDU’s ("modah bets") for combat duty or anytime you are on base and then you get uniforms (which look similar though it’s a bit nicer are “sharper” and its made out of a different material) for outside of the base on leave and its there where the paratroopers get their distinctive uniforms (Like lower pockets on the shirts and a few other little differences)


I have seen two companies that sell this stuff. Zahal.org and israelimilitary.com. Do you know if either of these places sell the "good" stuff.while good companies, they do sell a lot (not all) of knockoffs and as such be wary.

Also be very very wary of the foreign pricing that they do ;) (witness the vest example in the other thread)

Your best bet is to deal directly with the Israeli companies and manufacturers.

Again for links on those click on the isayeret.com page and go to the links section.


To Javehn

I am not sure but I think the pics that you yourself brought down are knockoffs themselves. I mean they don’t look like they are made of the same material and the color is a bit off, also they are missing the “tzahal” patch on top of the left pocket.


Lastly, this is a very old thread and I am sure a lot of people missed this.

I just want to “bump” this post courtesy of “Decide”, from a while back in this thread.

It’s a good clip on the Tavor



Right-click (http://www.defensereview.com/4_25_2003/tavortar21.mpg) here to download and view the Tavor TAR-21 Commando Carbine/Tavor-2 Subcarbine video.

P.S. To pretorian669, I just noticed as I was about to post that you posted as well (what a coincidence ;) ).

No pressure buddy, but it would be great to see that Tavor review once and for all :D


Shalom :D

[pretorian669]

hi there

I just found this on the web:
Israel to outsource optical sights for rifles from India

PTI[ MONDAY, DECEMBER 29, 2003 05:44:44 AM ]
JERUSALEM : An Israeli company plans to set up an outsourcing plant with an Indian partner in Bangalore to manufacture and maintain optical reflective sights for the Israel-made ‘Tavor’ assault rifle, Alos used by the Indian Army.


International (Laser) Technologies (ITL) is locating a suitable Indian company through its Russian contacts, said General Avi Robb, director ITL.

ITL is the exclusive supplier to the Israel defence forces of optical reflective target sights for the Tavor assault rifle produced by the Israeli military industries.

The Israel Defence Ministry recently contracted to purchase 14,000 rifles for delivery between 2004 and 2006.

The optical reflective target sights will be manufactured and assembled in Louisiana by ILT’s American subsidiary for a total $6.5 million to be paid from Israel ’s US military aid package.

The Tavor assault rifle costs $900 to produce and another $500 for the optical sights including an innovative red beam which locks onto its target.

The company is producing two upgraded versions of the optical sights equipped with interchangeable visible and undetected beams suited to counter terrorist and undercover night vision assault action, respectively

well anybody knows something about this,
lol if the makers of Rainbow six 3 would know this it would be a lot more easyer to play when using the tavor

anyway nice site woot

Check out my post with some info about the ITL MARS
http://lightfighter.net/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=7336015661&f=9046084761&m=541005456

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/GUNS/24.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/GUNS/22.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/GUNS/PICT0018.jpg

[Javehn]

Hell yea , nice pics Pretorian


I am not sure but I think the pics that you yourself brought down are knockoffs themselves. I mean they don’t look like they are made of the same material and the color is a bit off, also they are missing the “tzahal” patch on top of the left pocket.


Lastly, this is a very old thread and I am sure a lot of people missed this.

I just want to “bump” this post courtesy of “Decide”, from a while back in this thread.


Yes , just another collectors knock off . But there shouldn't be Tsahal on the pocket , sence paratroopers wear it only as part of representative uniform ( i am not shure if they could be call like that) .

[pretorian669]

Someone here had PM’d me (btw thanks to that person :D ) about these pics on another site and I thought that you guys might like them here. I mean this is militaryphotos.net after all (don’t worry I am in contact with this soldier, he allowed me to post them).


http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/105387/3.jpg


shalom :D

IDFM203

The shirt he is wearing is that a para shirt? I have a regular IDF shirt, but it looks very different. I think I heard that the Para's have a different shirt.
It is a experimental bdu for special forces.Reinforced elbows and knees,hidden buttons on shirt and pants ,tab and buttons on the sleeves to hold them in place when rolled up.
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/GUNS/Dsc01470.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Image3a.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Image2a.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Image6.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Image4.jpg

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Image1.jpg

[Javehn]

Hell , i know that **** . That was the dumbest project ever . That was the ugliest **** i ever warn , and i think this shirt (and pens) project is so cancelled . And it's pretty old also , like 2 years old .

Nice pics again , Pretorian . Have some pics of pistol ?

[Dennis G]

Wohoo... The Tavor? I've never SEEN that gun before!
Tell me about it! Please please please!!! Pretty please!?

http://www.imi-israel.com/imi/doa_iis.dll/Serve/item/English/1.1.2.12.2.5.html


Israel Military Industries is launching the new family of the TAVOR assault rifles. The weapon is offered in four configurations:
The basic design - the T.A.R-21 Tavor Assault Rifle.
A sharp-shooting configuration is offered as a squad weapon.
For commando, airborne, paratroopers and special rescue units, as well as tank crews, a short Tavor assault rifle is offered.
Micro T.A.R is specially configured for security forces and special missions.
Tavor uses the proven, compact Bull pup design, which was optimized to best match the ergonomics and mission requirements of the modern warrior, providing natural handling, intuitive aiming from all firing positions and improved hit accuracy. Accuracy and target acquisition is enhanced, by the use of accurate aiming, through the use of an integral reflex optical reflective sight, which projects the aiming point on the center of the sight. Tavor has an attachment for additional sighting devices, such as a 3rd generation night vision sight, which can be installed with no zeroing. Tavor is gas operated, using rotating bolt action. All types use standard NATO 5.56mm ammunition (M855/SS109), accommodate a 30 round magazine and sustain a rate of fire of 750 - 900 rounds per minute, and have the following specifications:


http://www.imi-israel.com/images/tarbig.jpg
T.A.R-21 Tavor Assault Rifle



http://www.imi-israel.com/images/commandobig.jpg
Commando Tavor Assault Rifle



http://www.imi-israel.com/images/microbig.jpg
Micro, Tavor Assault Rifle



http://www.imi-israel.com/images/sharpingbig.jpg
Sharp Shooting, Tavor Assault Rifle





looks alot like the CR-21

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Rifles/Vektor_CR21.jpg

[IDFM203]

looks alot like the CR-21

http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Auto-Rifles/Vektor_CR21.jpg To be more precise, the CR-22 looks alot like the TAR-21 ;)

or if not after the Tavor well for sure after the Israeli Galil (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as26-e.htm) ;)

Shalom :D

[Javehn]

To be more exact , taken from SA R-4 , Licensed SA copy of Galil . It's also look alot like Steyr AUG , and many other Bulpup weapons .

[pretorian669]

Hell , i know that **** . That was the dumbest project ever . That was the ugliest **** i ever warn , and i think this shirt (and pens) project is so cancelled . And it's pretty old also , like 2 years old .

Nice pics again , Pretorian . Have some pics of pistol ?

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/DSC02556.jpg

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/DSC02546.jpg

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/DSC02545.jpg

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/DSC02544.jpg

[big80a2]

thanks for the post pretorian,

in the article I posted it also stated:"
the optical sights including an innovative red beam which locks on to its target
there is no info on this at isayeret or the link you gave me (thanks nice pics you posted over there :D )
you know anything about it?

thanks

[pretorian669]

I think they mean laser beam. The ones i use have either IR or Daylight
lasers in them in addition to the red dot but not both of them. I can check whith my friend who works alot with ITL . Maybe they have a new model that has both lasers and their website is simply not updated.

[tomcat1974]

Very impressive list of Israeli products I must say (I have to admit I was a bit surprised reading this :D )

I mean amongst others, you have Israeli DASH helmets, the Litening II pod and the Python 3 (though if I may recommend a upgrade to the python 4 or even better the python 5 ;) ) out of curiosity, what kind of jets does your air force have?

Well we have a lot more, but right now i don't remeber all. Heck we have long times links with Israel (Romania never broke the diplomatic links with Israel like other WP countries, might be because the Isreal state in the begining was also formed with Romanian Immigrants).

Well our jets are Mig 21 :)..But they undergone a upgrade programe LanceR or ("DD" programe) with Elbit(you know from where). SO after that upgrade..we had the airframe of Mig21, engines from Mig21, autopilot from Mig21...and that is all left from the old 21 :) the rest is new electronics, hud, RADAR (ELTA EL/M 2001 for A,B version airground ,ELTA EL/M 2032 for Lancer C airdefence version), DASH helmets, lightening pod(target designation, aquisition, navigation, guidance pod -- comparable with what US has). Among other things we bought Python3(those ones where available in 94 for exports-things might change),Opher and Lizard(GBU's).. So right now we are capable of doing things that NO other exWP airforce can do.

BTW what is the history of the Tavor? How many parts are from GALIL?

[Glock]

Nice Glock :D
Did you by it with your one money or did the IDF give it to you. And how many Glocks are in Use in Israel?
Greatings Leo

[Javehn]

Freekin nice Glock . I see you have both Laser and Optics on da Glock .
Glock , in IDF the guns are issued , and infact it's forbidden to buy it / use it in army , unless you reached certain rank , or that's part of your issued weapon (some staff sargents / Academical officers buyin personal pistol , but they got issued money for it ) , and passed military course to use it . As you see from Pretorian Glock , he is in some nice unit . ;)

[Glock]

I thought so. But did somebody has numbers how many Glocks are in use in Israel?
Graetings Leo

[Sirpad]

pretorian669 - can you post again the photos of camo BDU? you posted them a wile ago, and they are not showing anymore.
thanx!

[pretorian669]

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Dsc03209.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Dsc03208.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Dsc03203.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Dsc03200.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/Dsc03199.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v34/pretorian669/GUNS/IMAG0010.jpg

[Sirpad]

Holy S**t!!! - man, these is some serious gear! is the vest ceramic, or just regular?

[pretorian669]

Holy S**t!!! - man, these is some serious gear! is the vest ceramic, or just regular?

It has level IV ceramic plates in the front and in the back but you can remove them and use it as a regular (SHACHPAT'Z) flack jacket. It has attachment points for modular pouches.

[pretorian669]

I thought so. But did somebody has numbers how many Glocks are in use in Israel?
Graetings Leo
I don’t know about numbers but it is the standard issue sidearm for Shayetet 13 , Sayeret Matkal, Yamam, and Shabak.

[REMOV]

pretorian669, do you have field stripped Tavor photos?

[Sirpad]

also, can you re-post the close-up photos of the tavor (flip-up sight, etc)?

[pretorian669]

pretorian669, do you have field stripped Tavor photos?
http://users.belgacom.net/jm.armes/Tavor/micro-d1.jpg
http://community.webshots.com/album/70642854fTRqSR/0

[pretorian669]

also, can you re-post the close-up photos of the tavor (flip-up sight, etc)?
http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/39/88/70643988AlOhps_ph.jpg

http://community.webshots.com/album/70642854fTRqSR/0
http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/43/70/70644370tAialu_ph.jpg

http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/47/56/70644756HVGdbj_ph.jpg

http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/48/10/70644810ctltMM_ph.jpg

http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/49/19/70644919OiWKXm_ph.jpg

http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/49/59/70644959CKdPlR_ph.jpg

[pretorian669]

http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/44/42/70644442llHKut_ph.jpg
http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/45/15/70644515fwPLsD_ph.jpg

http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/45/64/70644564SMHNvf_ph.jpg
http://community.webshots.com/s/image4/4/48/67/70644867clRJYW_ph.jpg

[REMOV]

[/img]
http://community.webshots.com/album/70642854fTRqSR/0Thanks, but I saw this photo before.

Do you have any normal (full length) Tavor field stripped photos taken by you? ;)

[pretorian669]

Sorry but no.
I carry a M4CQB now and sometimes a Micro Galil.

A few people asked me to take more pics of the tavor but meanwhile all i got is what i sent you on the webshots link.

Anyway we all cellebrate now a good day's work ( Yassin ) woot

But good things come to those who wait!

[pretorian669]

BTW. this weekend theres a sniper contest i'll attend so if someone will bring a tavor I'll take all tha pictures you need.

Stay safe.1*

[REMOV]

Sorry but no.OK. By the way - great pictures of Tavor-21. So I'll be waiting patiently for new pictures of Tavor ;)

[IDFM203]

Ok since we are back on the Tavor…I am curious, can anyone compare or contrast the Tavor to the SAR 21 from Singapore or give any info in the latter for the SAR21 looks like a clone ;) (with a few differences) to the Tavor and I am curious to know how they differ.

Shalom :D

[Raistlin]

I think there should be like a special forum for all time classic threads (like this one).

[southpark2000]

Ok since we are back on the Tavor…I am curious, can anyone compare or contrast the Tavor to the SAR 21 from Singapore or give any info in the latter for the SAR21 looks like a clone ;) (with a few differences) to the Tavor and I am curious to know how they differ.

Shalom :D

They are quite different. (See below).

Some forumers though claim that both countries might have collaborated at the early stages but chose to go their own ways thereafter.

Some of the differences are summarised as follows (various googled sources):

- Tavor has its CG behind the weapon (so that cocking the weapon is easier). SAR-21 is perfectly balanced on firer's hand (so that you can easily fire with one hand).
- Tavor barrel is free-floating. SAR-21 appears to be non-free floating (from the design).
- The SAR-21 has a gas regulator with three settings. The Tavor has none.
- The standard Tavor's barrel is shorter (460mm) vs SAR-21 (508mm). The Tavor was supposed to replace the M4 (M16 Carbine). The SAR-21 was supposed to replace the M-16 standard.
- The Tavor claims to break into 2 major components (the rifle body and the bolt group) but trying to clean / swop other parts might be a bit more complicated. The SAR-21 is more modular.
- The Tavor has a M-16 sweep selector. The SAR-21 has a cross-bolt / push-type selector.
- The Tavor can be re-configured for southpaws. The SAR-21 is strictly for right-hand use only.
- The Tavor uses an integrated reflex sight with red-dot + laser aiming device fixed on the barrel. The SAR-21 uses a scope fixed to the barrel with a separate integrated LAD underneath the barrel.
- The Tavor uses M-16 magazines. The SAR-21 uses its proprietary plastic magazines (though ST Engg does have SAR-21 that uses M-16 mags for exports).

- SAR-21 does not need to be zeroed....no info about that on the Tavor. (that said, the SAF recommends some zeroing to better engage targets at 300m and above)

http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/idr/idr000531_2_n.shtml

The best is to compare Tavor innards vs. SAR-21 innards....

The Tavor Innards (Micro Tavor as proxy)
http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/assault/tavor/micro-d1.gif

The SAR-21 Innards
http://brikolo.free.fr/images/SAR21ecla.jpg

Hope that helps...

Southpark
The Dude

[GrimReaper]

Can't believe I've never seen this thread. Great info and photos :D

[southpark2000]

Oh I'm sorry i must have had typing while you were replying and did not see your reply.
About the tavor- I am preparing a detailed review of the tavor vs other AR's in use by Israel and tavor vs other bullpup rifles.
It is going to take some time meanwhile i need some help about it.
Tell me (and also ask other guys on the subject) what would you like this review to include?

Suggestion for comparison:
- M-16
- M4
- SAR-21
- Steyr AUG
- AK-47/74
- XM-8

Southpark
The Dude

[Raistlin]

I can find at least 2 things wrong with the above post :lol:

[LazerLordz]

http://world.guns.ru/assault/sar21_3.jpg

http://world.guns.ru/assault/sar21_1.jpg

Well, having maintained the SAR21 rifle before, I must say although it does bear a similar resemblance to the Tavor in certain areas, the SAR21 has more local input than any foreign collaboration. :D

It was used by the SAF detachment in Timor Leste and Iraq.Whether it has been combat tested though, remains to be seen.However the Timor Leste detachment used the model with the front-grip.