Question about the Irish Army Rangers

[Vance]

Does anyone know what plane they use to HALO out of? I can't seem to find anything online. Thanks.

[EvanL]

Does anyone know what plane they use to HALO out of? I can't seem to find anything online. Thanks.

Im not sure if they even HALO. But if they do, they most likely cross train with the Brits to do it because Eireland lacks the proper planes.

[Sapper]

According to this site they do HALO. http://www.military.ie/army/arw_parachuting.htm

I don't know about the plane they are using. Only plane in their inventory which can used as that is Casa CN235.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/cn-235.htm

[martinexsquaddie]

there not likely to cross train with UK forces anytime soon
the Irish goverment would'nt like it plus the SAS had a habit of visting the south without invitation. Though who exactly the Irish army are going to engage in deep behind the lines raids against I could only imagine.

[CX20]

Martin sorry to correct you mate but they have cross trained with our forces, and recently too. Some of my old RAF Regiment mates got the chance to train with the ARW when they came over here on exercise, a couple of years after I'd left. The ARW lads all had HK53s decked out with fancy night vision scopes, which my mates had great fun playing with.

During the exercise, my mates were lying in a position on their airfield, which the ARW had the job of infiltrating. Night fell and it was pitch black. My lot suddenly see headlights about 100m in front of them at the edge of the perimeter. They look through their night vision scopes and see several truck loads of the ARW Rangers assault force arriving, with full headlights on! The Rangers then get out, in full view of the defenders, and start pointing out their targets to each other in the dark. Then they load their HK53s in full view of my lot (they could even hear the weapons being loaded!) and start advancing across open ground in the dark.

My mates let them get half way before letting the Rangers have it with GPMGs, LSWs and SA80s. Result - the pride of Ireland's military having to execute a speedy withdrawal with most of their number "dead". My mates couldn't believe it, these so-called elite special operators making such basic fieldcraft and tactical errors, when they were supposed to be covertly infiltrating an installation, and being defeated by some knuckle dragging rockapes!

[Vance]

Thanks for the info guys.

[California Joe]

Hey, they were just drunk. Jeez.

[fantassin]

The french magazine RAIDS had two articles with about 50 colour pics on the ARW about 2 years ago. One was on "black" ops and the other on "green ops".

[Imshi-Yallah]

Martin sorry to correct you mate but they have cross trained with our forces, and recently too. Some of my old RAF Regiment mates got the chance to train with the ARW when they came over here on exercise, a couple of years after I'd left. The ARW lads all had HK53s decked out with fancy night vision scopes, which my mates had great fun playing with.

During the exercise, my mates were lying in a position on their airfield, which the ARW had the job of infiltrating. Night fell and it was pitch black. My lot suddenly see headlights about 100m in front of them at the edge of the perimeter. They look through their night vision scopes and see several truck loads of the ARW Rangers assault force arriving, with full headlights on! The Rangers then get out, in full view of the defenders, and start pointing out their targets to each other in the dark. Then they load their HK53s in full view of my lot (they could even hear the weapons being loaded!) and start advancing across open ground in the dark.

My mates let them get half way before letting the Rangers have it with GPMGs, LSWs and SA80s. Result - the pride of Ireland's military having to execute a speedy withdrawal with most of their number "dead". My mates couldn't believe it, these so-called elite special operators making such basic fieldcraft and tactical errors, when they were supposed to be covertly infiltrating an installation, and being defeated by some knuckle dragging rockapes!

A few problems with this story, the ARW only use the HK53 in the sniper support role, they are just about the only unit in the IDF that haven't trained with UK forces (not to mention the difficulty of seeing through NVE when someone's shining headlights at them.
Futher although individual Irish personell at staff level do take part in UK military exercises there has never been a unit or subunit deployed on these exercises.
Although the Defence forces maintain a close military relationship with the BA, RN and RAF this consists mostly of exchanging personnel for courses of instruction.
The ARW usually HALO from foreign aircraft with the foreign SFs they DO train with, however in order to maintain the standard of training the CN-235s have been used as was a C-27J flown by air corps pilots on a sales visit.
Basic parachute qualifications are done on the Fr172 fleet and helicopter parachuting (from AIIIs) is also practiced regularly.

[MARK.TIGGER]

yep but theyr still part of the irish army not exactly the most professional orginisation in the world. I've seen them on border ops in Donegal

[The thing]

Well perhaps these may point to British military establishments in a more professional manner.
(1) The practice of retaining convicted killers and rapists in the British Armed Forces namely Lee Clegg.
(2) Bravo Two Zero.
(3) SAS team arrested by Irish Defence Force section in the 1980's in Dundalk.
(4) Landing of British Helicopters in Irish Defence Force barracks (thought to be British Forces bases when they were ten miles over the border)
(5) Bloody Sunday (very professional one there)
God the list is endless

[fantassin]

Yeah, it's about time we get a serious thread going on about Northern Ireland...with all the Brits on this site there could be some interesting stories the Yanks would like to hear about and put to use in Iraq.

[Imshi-Yallah]

yep but theyr still part of the irish army not exactly the most professional orginisation in the world. I've seen them on border ops in Donegal

Qualify this statement please what is your experience of the Irish army and hwo exactly did you measure their proffessionalism?
Were you looking at reserve or regular personell, reserve units are a whole other ball game and until the restructure of the reserve is complete they cannot be considered as representative of the Army as a whole.

Furthermore how would you explain the British military authorities ranking of the Irish army as the seventh best land army in the world?
Or the fact that much of our training is identical to British training methods?

I might also challenge you to talk to any of the Swedish, Finnish, Australian, New Zealand or Dutch troops who are or have been on ops with Irish soldiers in the last decade I don't think you'll hear much support for your theory.

[FM]

ARW do their HALO training in Sweden, they also do their arctic training there too. Close target recce & close protection training is done in the UK. Jungle training was done in Australia prior to the Timor deployment.

Also, individual soldiers (both ARW & conventional troops) have done jungle training in Belieze & the Brecons course (the latter on a fairly regular basis).

I'd also like to know how Mark.Tigger id'ed the rangers in Donegal, since they have the same uniforms & equippment as the rest of the army and they aren't in the habit of wearing their green berets in public.

[oldsoak]

Rangers are not run of the mill in any sense. Considering who they cross train with, I dont believe the Republics Rangers would let themselves down under critical gaze. Gents, lets not let this get into a mud slinging contest - it would be interesting to hear about what the Irish army does/tactics/training etc in a convivial atmosphere.
rgds

[MARK.TIGGER]

we're talking Irish military vehicle sitting with doors unlocked and 4 steyr assualt rifles+ ammo, radio kit etc sitting in car park and no sign of soldiers. VCP them all sitting in vehicles because it raining.

BTW the number fo infractions of UK airspace in northern ireland has never been documented but from mates in newry you're looking at 20+incidents a month. About Navigation round the border an Irish army patrol was chased by i think the Royal Marines a good 2-3 miles back to the border. Then there is the training and supplying of the IRA by the Irish army in the 70's in donegal. The now documented plans to invade northern ireland in 1969. There is of course the murder of an Irish army patrol in lebanon by one of its own solidiers. Then there is the sightings and detentions of Irish soldiers with Known IRA players. This is before I mention the tales from former irish soldiers now in british army.

[Roger Rabbit]

Don't suppose you could mention some could you, sounds quite interesting.

[oldsoak]

There are wheels within wheels here and before we starting pointing bones at the Irish, we might consider that that we dont smell of roses either. I've delved a bit into Irish history as I wanted to know about the bitterness between the Irish and the Brits and found out that truth does indeed cut both ways. Lets keep this friendly and informative - there plenty of bile abouts already. :) I believe the thread was about the Irish rangers. Could any Irishmen tell us about them, trianig, numbers etc ?

[irl]

Unit Designation
The Unit is officially designated 'Sciathán Fianóglach an Airm' , which is translated as 'The Army Ranger Wing'. There is no direct English translation of the term 'Fianóglach' so the designation Ranger is the accepted version. 'Fianóglach' links the traditions of the 'Na Fianna' (Legendary Irish Warriors) with the present day Irish Defence Forces (Óglaigh na hÉireann). Qualified members of the unit wear the Fianóglach shoulder flash insignia.

Unit Evolution
In the late 1960s and early 1970s a small number of Defence Forces personnel attended American Army Ranger Courses at Fort Benning, Georgia in the United States. On their return, these personnel were responsible for organising similar type courses which were aimed at bringing standards of training throughout the Defence Forces into line with accepted international standards. Students on these courses were selected from among all ranks and all Units of the Army, the Air Corps and the Naval Service. These courses proved to be very beneficial in improving standards of physical endurance, marksmanship, individual military skills and small unit tactics.
The evolution of the Army Ranger Wing resulted from an increase in international terrorism in the late 1970s and 1980s. The kidnapping of politicians and businessmen as well as the hijacking of air and seagoing craft was of considerable concern to democratic governments. European and other countries realised that conventional police and military tactics were not suited to dealing with this escalating threat.
Ireland, a member of the European Community, was not immune from such incidents and recognised the need for a specialised anti terrorist organisation.
The Defence Forces was in a position to respond with a competent and highly trained Unit. The increased skills and endurance training of 'Ranger'-trained personnel provided the perfect basis for the new specialist unit. The Army Ranger Wing (ARW) was formally established, in accordance with the Defence Act, by Government order in March 1980 .

Roles
The Army Ranger Wing is an integral Unit of the Defence Forces. Its Roles are divided into Conventional Warfare roles and Specialist 'Aid to the Civil Power' roles. It also has an established role in the advancement of standards within the Defence Forces. Conventional Warfare
Military Tasks
Offensive Operations behind enemy lines :
Securing of vital objectives.
Long Range Patrolling - Raids - Ambushes - Sabotage.
Capture of key personnel.
Diversionary Operations.
Intelligence Gathering
Defensive Operations
VIP Protection.
Counter insurgency.
Training in and conduct of specialist operations.
Delay Operations

Specialist Aid to the Civil Power (Anti-Terrorist Tasks)
Anti-Hijack Operations - aircraft, ferry, ship, bus, train.
Hostage Rescue Operations.
Airborne and Seaborne Interventions.
Search Operations - Difficult or dangerous specialist tasks on land or at sea.
Pursuit Operations over any terrain.
Recapture of terrorist-held objectives - Vital Installations, Embassies, Airports, Gas & Oil Rigs, Summit venues, Broadcasting and Government facilities.
VIP Security Operations/Close Protection of VIPs.
Contingency Planning to Counter Terrorist/Subversive Threat
Advancement of Defence Forces Standards
The ARW contributes to the improvement of standards in military and related skills throughout the Defence Forces by :
Testing and evaluation of certain military equipment for the Defence Forces.
Organising and participating in Defence Forces training exercises.
Conducting Specialist Courses.
Returning highly skilled ARW personnel to all Corps of the Defence Forces on completion of service in the ARW.

Training
Selection
The Selection Course is held annually by the ARW for potential new Unit members. It is open to serving members of the Defence Forces only. Candidates must be medically fit, have a good conduct rating, may be of any rank and must undergo a rigorous physical fitness test.
The Selection course is of four (4) weeks duration. The student must cope with physical and psychological pressures and is constantly assessed by instructor staff. The course covers Physical Training, Weapons Handling, Confidence Training, Mountain Navigation, Survival Skills and all aspects of special forces conventional tactics. Standards required are set at the highest level. Successful students continue with the induction process by completing an ARW Basic Skills Course, which is in effect a probationary period.
Basic Skills Course
The Basic Skills Course is of six (6) months duration where assessment of student suitability to serve in the ARW is detailed and continuous. Students learn all the new skills necessary for membership of the Units' assault platoons. These skills include :
Physical Training.
Advanced Shooting and Marksmanship.
Long Range Patrolling - Survival Training and Rough terrain navigation.
Hostage Rescue Tactics - House, Aircraft, Bus, Train and Ship assaults.

Specialist Training
Throughout the Ranger's career he/she will undergo further specialist training on a continuous ongoing basis ensuring peak of performance at all times. The Ranger will be trained to the highest level of skills such as helicopter rappelling, fast roping, boat handling, sniping, underwater combat diving, explosives intervention, close protection, parachuting and advanced navigation. These skills are unique to the Army Ranger Wing and affords the Unit much valued flexibility in contingency planning for operational tasks.
The Unit is supported by Defence Forces assets such as Air Corps aircraft, Naval Service Patrol Vessels, Army transport and specialised all weather military kit and high tech equipment. The availability of these assets enables the ARW to train for scenarios based on airborne as well as underwater and surface maritime operations. Training is carried out on gas and oil rigs off Ireland's Atlantic coast, in remote rural areas and in the urban environment.
Rangers are selected for training with other Intervention/Special Forces Units and selected personnel serve with the Defence Forces on overseas peacekeeping missions.

C3 Function
The normal military chain of command applies from junior leader upwards. The Officer Commanding the Army Ranger Wing is responsible for the Administrative, Disciplinary and Operational control of the unit. Officer Commanding ARW in turn is directly under command to The Chief of Staff at Defence Forces HQ. The Army Ranger Wing is on immediate call for operations throughout the State.
Secure communications between all Unit elements is essential. The ARW is equipped therefore with state of the art SINCGAR and RACAL communications equipment all of which have an inbuilt encryption and frequency hopping systems. It is also equipped with satellite communications

Weapons include;

Sig-Sauer P226
Remington 870 Combat Shotgun
Heckler & Koch 33/SG1
Heckler & Koch MP5A3
AI96 .308 Accuracy International
FN MAG
FN Minimi
Steyr AUG
M2 HB
Etc.

[irl]

Army Rangers among best elite forces
The Irish Independent
23-Aug-2003
Michael Lavery

*******************************
ARMY Rangers out-shot, out-ran and out-maneuvered dozens of special forces teams from around the world in a gruelling contest.

The elite Irish soldiers picked up a bronze medal in the Combat Team Conference this week which tests the skills of special police and military units. Forty-one teams from 22 countries had battled it out.

Austria's COBRA police team came first, with Italy's NOCS police second and the Army Ranger Wing (ARW) third. The Irish came in ahead of such highly skilled units as the Royal Dutch Marines, the Special Task Force from South Africa, Germany's GSG9, Sweden's Special Police Unit and GOE from Portugal.

The competition, held every four years, was organised by Germany's GSG9 at their base near Bonn.

Rangers had to deal with hostage situations, evade attack dogs, swim long distances in the Rhine and hit targets with their H&K MP5 sub-machine guns and 9mm SiG pistols.

The first event involved a 2.5km run down a steep incline. "At the end of the run, the runner picked up his team of four who were roped together and they made their way back up the hill," said the Ranger team manager. "The team were stopped during the first 1km to identify five 'tangos' (hostage takers) from mug sheets that had been shown previously." Getting it wrong meant having to carry a 20kg sandbag for the rest of the run.

"The events tested the skills that a specialist unit would need in an actual intervention, including shooting, climbing, driving, swimming, leadership and making decisions under pressure," he said.

[irl]

Training - International Interchange
As part of the ongoing training the Unit conducts interchanges with Special Forces and Intervention Groups among which are The Royal Dutch Marines, the French GIGN, the Italian CIS, the German GSG9 and the Swedish SSG. Exchanges lead to international co-operation through mutual contact and evaluation of each others specialised skills. ARW individuals selected are of varying service within the Unit and specialise in areas such as diving, sniping, parachuting, medical or explosives.
Members of the ARW also take part in the Irish Defence Forces contribution to overseas Peacekeeping Missions around the world. Over the years these missions have included service in Lebanon, Bosnia, Cyprus, Iraq, Somalia Western Sahara and East Timor


The ARW conducts parachute training within the Defence Forces and all Unit members are proficient in this area. All trainees must successfully complete five (5) static line jumps from 2,000 feet using T10 round canopies to earn their wings. Selected unit members then progress to free-fall. Rangers who reach a high standard are sent abroad for HALO (High altitude low opening) and HAHO (High altitude high opening) training. Most ARW parachutists are encouraged to compete in sports parachuting such as accuracy and relative work competitions. ARW members also represent the Irish Defence Forces in the annual World Military Parachuting Championships under CISM (Conseil International du Sport Militaire).

[FM]

we're talking Irish military vehicle sitting with doors unlocked and 4 steyr assualt rifles+ ammo, radio kit etc sitting in car park and no sign of soldiers. VCP them all sitting in vehicles because it raining.

That sounds very unlikely, but either way what makes you think they were ARW?

About Navigation round the border an Irish army patrol was chased by i think the Royal Marines a good 2-3 miles back to the border.

As anyone who's ever been near the border can tell you, it's hardly marked by a big white line. It's pretty easy to get lost & end up on the opposite side of the border, it happens to the BA all the time. As for Irish Army being 'chased' back across the border, I find that hard to believe. Standard practice, in the Irish Army anyway, is to escort any lost British troops back to their side. I see no reason for the Royal Marines, or anyone else, to do otherwise. If such dramatic incidents were common, why isn't there any 'border clashes' ?

Then there is the training and supplying of the IRA by the Irish army in the 70's in donegal.

Getting fairly off-topic now. There was some training of official IRA members in the 60's. This was done with the intention of providing the Catholic communities in NI with some protection. There was a plan to provide arms & ammunition, again to the official IRA, but the stores never left the Republic. Try reading up on the arms trial. By the way, what's your opinion on collusion between UK security forces & loyalist groups?

The now documented plans to invade northern ireland in 1969.

Again, the idea was to protect Catholic communities. The BA was sent in instead, so it was called off. I suppose the UK never had contingency plans to invade the Republic? WW2 perhaps?

There is of course the murder of an Irish army patrol in lebanon by one of its own solidiers.

What's your point? The guy was caught & locked up. There's always going to be nutters in every army, that's why we have military police.

Then there is the sightings and detentions of Irish soldiers with Known IRA players.

These are few & far between, and when such soldiers are caught they are dealt with severely by the authorities. Again, there have been similar examples in the UK - a number of soldiers were found to have involvement in Combat 18.

This is before I mention the tales from former irish soldiers now in british army.

I have a good few mates who have served or are serving in the BA, they've got quite a few stories too, and they're not all good. But you're going to come across that in every army.


Why are you trying to make the Irish Army out to be an inept, corrupt organisation? What have you got against them?



You've obviously got some axe to grind with the Irish Army for some reason, why not come straight out & say it

[MARK.TIGGER]

Why are you trying to make the Irish Army out to be an inept, corrupt organisation?

because as you say they are corrupt and inept

You've obviously got some axe to grind with the Irish Army for some reason, why not come straight out & say it

well for 30 years of the IRA campaign the Irish state has provided support to a terrorist orginisation including arming and training it (your own admission) it claimed it could not seal the border yet when the Foot and Mouth outbreak hit Northern Ireland the border was sealed by the GARDA and Irish Army. And the information I was given about links with Players were actually officers of the Irish army in the British army that would be a court martial or admin discharge. If the Irish army is so good how come there are so many Irish citizens in the British Army? You quote that the Ranger wing preformed well on a compition. Compitions/exercises real life performance is something else.

[oldsoak]

Erm guys, some of us would like to know about the Republics army in a sort of friendly exchange of information scenario.....

[martinexsquaddie]

I met them once on the border seemed friendly enough very chilled out built a huge bonfire and cracked open a few tins of Guinness mind you the provos are not out to shoot at them :lol:
apart form the dick at HQ who kept shouting over the radio do not engage them over and over again :(.

[FM]

If the IRA was operating with the support of the Republic, why didn't the UK do anything about it? If the Irish Defence Forces were corrupt, why did British armed forces continue to train Irish personnel?

I doubt very much Thatcher would have entered into the Anglo-Irish agreement if she thought the Republic was supporting terrorism. In fact, I would have thought she'd have bombed us.

What little support the Republic gave to the IRA was brief & was given to the now defunct Offical IRA, not the Provos. This was for a brief period in the late 1960's. No arms ever got through.

As for sealing the border, I don't know if you've noticed but a cattle truck is a rather conspicuous & awkward vehicle. It's a bit easier to stop these than small amounts of arms.

You obviously have some anti-Irish bias, so you're attacking the country & armed forces through lies (ARW exercise with RAF) & slander.

[MARK.TIGGER]

Sorry FM that the truth hurts. The Irish state didn't put a concerted effoert into dealing with the terrorist problem. And the reason the British didn't take action south of the border was that until sept 11 international opinion wuld have crucified them and the Irish would have run bleating to the UN and EU. It would have been nice to see the British forces going south to take out the arms bunkers and lift the players who lived openly and flaunted who they were and what they did. But pre sept 11 it would have been unacceptable. And it was sickening to hear the Irish government come out in support of the war on terrorism when for 30 years they allowed terrorists to operate from their soil and did everything in their power to stop the British Govt from dealing with the problem.

[oldsoak]

As a Brit, I feel I must take up the cudgels for the Irish here. I dont have a problem with the Irish or the Irish army. I have met members of the Irish armed forces and have no reason to believe that they would be any other than a professional army. Furthermore I dont think that having a go at someone for the alleged actions of their government be they real or imaginary serves any real purpose other than upping the ante. How would you like to be collared and dressed down for events that you have no control over and may not even agree with ? I certainly would not be liked to be picked on ref allegations of collusion woth loyalist paramilitaries, bloody sunday etc. Give the Irish lads a break !

[MARK.TIGGER]

ok fine but remember there is cases of colusion between the garda and the IRA going forward now to. And where is the public inquiery into Bloody Friday and numerous other IRA atrocities?

[stimpy]

After reading this guy MARK.TIGGER's post on various other threads I have come to the conclusion that he has some sort of agenda concerning the Irish Military and possibly the Irish in general. (do a search yourself, everywhere the Irish are mentioned he seems to have a problem, from the ARW to the Styer.)

Sure aren't we all just blood thirsty potato eating muck savages, bent on killing and maiming as many god honest British people as possible. Sure we don't even know the barrel from the butt.

It would be nice if we could all desist from these overtly racist slurs and get back on topic!.

Welcome to 2004 Mark........

[oldsoak]

Out of interest - wonder if any of the Irish lads can answer the following

1 Irish camouflage - is it unique to the Irish or is it the French european pattern

2 Helmets - who makes them

3 Webbing - what types do you use ( chest rigs etc )

4 How much leeway do you get in getting your own gear

5 Whats the pay like ?

rgds

[MARK.TIGGER]

irish army webbing is green version of PLCE


I don't have any agenda with Ireland. And I am well aware that your people are not potato eating muck savages. Ireland is a modern state that signed the treaty of rome which stated that it should have no claim over the territory of another EU state but i do refer you to articles 2&3 of the Irish constitution pre good friday agreement. That also tacitly supported terrorist orginisations and gave safe haven to Terrorists who waged a campaign of murder against the security forces of another EU country. Who when presented with evidence and extradition warrants attempted to prevent wanted criminals from facing the courts. And Yes alledgedly the violence is over but as alot of commentators have said it will take time for people to get past what has happened.

[stimpy]

1 Irish camouflage - is it unique to the Irish or is it the French european pattern

Although similar to the French Irish camouflage is unique (irish is slightly darker and uses different colours)


2 Helmets - who makes them

Originally the design of the current helmet is Israeli, adopted during the early stages of deployment in the Lebanon. However there are new helmets being introduced, while not exactly K-pots they are similar and I believe in use with the Dutch army


3 Webbing - what types do you use ( chest rigs etc )

DPM PLCE for the most part, however some units on deployment in Liberia and KFOR at the moment have been issued chest rigs


4 How much leeway do you get in getting your own gear

While not encouraged, there's a certain amount of give, as with most armies these days


5 Whats the pay like ?

Not bad, but not great either

[fantassin]

Yeah, it's about time we get a serious thread going on about Northern Ireland...that was only a few days ago...

There we are...see, wasn't so hard...

Anybody has anything to say about South Armagh, rural tour in general and COP platoons in particular by any chance....?

[stimpy]

but i do refer you to articles 2&3 of the Irish constitution pre good friday agreement.

Whats your point?. There was a referendum held concerning these articles and the people of Ireland voted to have them removed from the contusion, end of story. The people spoke.

Contrary to your statement it's blatantly obvious that you do have a problem with the Irish. If we can get over 800 years of rape, pillage and oppression (something which your own Prince Charles apologized for) inflicted on my country by past Governments / Monarchies of your country surely you can cut us some slack. Or if you like we could all stick our heads up our holes and continue to live in the past.

[oldsoak]

Cheers stimpy !
rgds

[MARK.TIGGER]

moving into what new future another round of concessions to terrorists. Cause thats all they're interested in the odrinary law abiding citizens of Northern Ireland have learnt 1 thing uphold the law and you get walked all over pick up a gun or throw a bomb and the governments of the United Kingdom and the south will give you everything you want.

[stimpy]

moving into what new future another round of concessions to terrorists. Cause thats all they're interested in the odrinary law abiding citizens of Northern Ireland have learnt 1 thing uphold the law and you get walked all over pick up a gun or throw a bomb and the governments of the United Kingdom and the south will give you everything you want.

OK mate... whatever

Now can we please stick to the topic.

[Bacilluspolymyxa]

There must have been some joint training last year at Dundrennan Scotland as their flag was flying up at the range for a while.

[fantassin]

Met a member of the ARW in Athlone many years ago while visiting the local Irish infantry Bn; he told me he had also done some parachute training with the French at the ETAP, the French airborne school.

He told me that at the time their were some quite strong links between the Irish forces and the French forces because they've operated together in South Lebanon under the UNIFIL mission for a very long time (since 1978 for France, I don't know for Eire)

[stimpy]

Irish in the Leb

Following the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1978, UNIFIL was established to supervise the withdrawal of Israeli forces and restore peace and security to the area. Since then the Defence Forces had an infantry battalion ( approx. strength 540 personnel) in Lebanon, which rotated every six months plus almost 100 others in UNIFIL headquarters and the Force Mobile Reserve until November 2001.

The battalion's headquarters was located in Tibnin and it was responsible for an area of approx. 100 square kilometers. It performed its duties mainly by providing a presence in the area, by operating patrols, checkpoints and manning observation posts. The battalion also rendered humanitarian assistance to the local population including aiding the local orphanage in Tibnin. The presence of the Irish battalion in South Lebanon undoubtedly helped to restore a certain normality to the area, as evidenced by the increase in population and economic activity in the region.

After the withdrawal of Israeli troops from South Lebanon and the completion of its mandate with UNIFIL, the Defence Forces withdrew from the Area of Operations leaving behind 11 Defence Forces personnel in Lebanon to oversee the handover of the mission to Ghana battalion. A total of 47 Defence Forces personnel lost their lives during the 23 years of this mission.

[johnnysmith]

for more information check out :

http://www.military.ie

and the discussion forum

http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board

[Beowulf]

This is a good thread, very informative.

Oldsoak: thanks for your level-headed appeals to stay on topic.

Mark.Tigger: I would suggest that if you want to discuss the IRA, terrorism, or politics in Ireland that you start your own thread in the appropriate forum.

All Best,
-b

[johnnysmith]

Currently "the Wing" is deployed in Liberia, here's an article to give an idea of what they are doing out there.


http://www.unison.ie/images_papers/news/41/10269/pictures/297271.jpg

Crack troops rescue hostages from gunmen in daring raid

Rangers on patrol: A 20-strong unit from the force were in action in Liberia, rescuing captive villagers from renegade government gunmen in a surprise raid.

A CRACK unit from the Irish Army Ranger Wing has rescued a group of captive villagers who were being beaten and raped by gunmen from renegade Government of Liberia (GOL) forces.

Twenty heavily armed Rangers, part of a special UN operations task group, stormed a container where the 35 men and women were being held prisoner and rescued them.

The Ranger patrol detained the renegade commander, known as "Prince", and the deputy commander of the GOL forces during the rescue operation.

The rest of the kidnap gang is believed to have fled across the border into Guinea.

Acting on an intelligence tip-off, the Irish troops were dropped by helicopter into the town of Gbapa in the northern sector of Nimba county and about 300 kilometres north-east of the Liberian capital, Monrovia.

To avoid casualties among the hostages, the Rangers decided on a policy of non-lethal intervention and, after surrounding a 40-foot container containing the hostages, rescued them.

The Rangers also detained the leaders of the rebel troops without any injuries.

The two suspects, who are part of a group loyal to former Liberian president Charles Taylor, were then handed over to local police following the rescue on Tuesday evening and were transferred for questioning yesterday to a police station in Monrovia.

Many of the hostages were taken to a medical centre for treatment by local doctors and Irish medics as a result of the rapes and beatings inflicted upon them while in captivity.

The GOL is party to an agreement on decommissioning which came into effect late last year but renegade groups are known to have been coming across the border from neighbouring Guinea and looting the villages.

Residents who show resistance to the pillaging are rounded up and held hostage by the renegades. The group confronted by the Rangers was carrying AK-47 rifles, small arms, and a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

The 20-man patrol represents half of the deployment from the Ranger Wing in the Irish contingent.

The Rangers arrived in Liberia last November and one was killed and another seriously injured in a road accident a week after operations began.

The elite group is part of a contingent of more than 400 troops from the Defence Forces. The Irish are being deployed as a rapid reaction force for the United Nations mission and have a pathfinding role as the peacekeepers move out of the capital and into areas of jungle.

Last night Defence Minister Michael Smith paid tribute to the troops.

"I am delighted that the brave and decisive action by our troops has led to these people being rescued from a dangerous situation and uncertain fate."

Mr Smith said the Government had sent troops to the UN mission to assist in restoring peace and to ensure that the civilian population in Liberia would have their basic human rights restored after a long, cruel, and bloody conflict.

"We are proud of their success," he said.

Tom Brady
Security Editor
The Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=28&si=1104428&issue_id=10269

[johnnysmith]

http://www.military.ie/images/arwtruck.jpg
Just to try to answer a few questions asked earlier :

Wages Accurate on date 01/01/02

(sorry lads, you will have to covert to Sterling)

Rank Rate Grat

O/C €758.16 €274.79

Comdt €758.16 €181.31

Capt €630.65 €181.31

Lt €615.35 €181.31

2 Lt €615.35 €181.31

S/M €607.19 €144.45

BQMS €591.02 €144.45

C/S €542.62 €144.45

CQMS €532.59 €144.45

Sgt €488.14 €144.45

Cpl €443.79 €144.45

Pte3* €369.99 €106.13

Pte2* €355.07 €106.13

Recruit G1 €286.36 €106.13

Webbing

Currently is P.L.C.E in olive green. however as stated APC crew and some personnel in Liberia are being issued chest rigs. Irish DPM is available and some soliders have a mix with their pouches( i.e some OG other DPM).

It really depends on what the job is, if its a cash escort (Army in Ireland is responsible for movement of cash) then its uniformity. However in exercises etc then in most cases a soldier can use his own kit.

Uniform

Up until 1996/8 the uniform was olive green. This was to distiguish the IDF from the B.A near the border. However the Wing were using British DPM until the new uniform arrived. It's agreed by most soliders as an excellent uniform.

http://www.angelfire.com/blog/joesmith/sameuniform.jpg

[FCA Trooper]

that, for all you non-irishmen, is a reservist. the regs have a black beret and better boots.

[johnnysmith]

Army Ranger Wing - East Timor
http://www.irishmilitaryonline.com/board/attachment.php?s=&postid=27936

[Thorpe]

A lot us reserveist wear our own boots that we have purchased ourselves ie I have a pair of Meindle`s. The regulars were issiued with the Matterhorn which is said not to be great.

[Steve Andrews]

I know nothing of the ARW, but the regular army guys that I met while serving in Fermanagh and West Tyrone were nice guys.

They were very understanding when one of our guys had an ND with a Gimpy from Clady PVCP sangar and loosed off a burst of 7.62 at them!!

[The thing]

Im from Monaghan, the British army had a tough job in those areas, when did you serve?

[johnnysmith]

http://www.military.ie/images/smarw4.jpg

East Timor

http://www.military.ie/images/smarw3.jpg

http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor1.jpg

http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor4.jpg

http://users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/unpictures/images/timor5.jpg

[Steve Andrews]

Well perhaps these may point to British military establishments in a more professional manner.
(1) The practice of retaining convicted killers and rapists in the British Armed Forces namely Lee Clegg.
(2) Bravo Two Zero.
(3) SAS team arrested by Irish Defence Force section in the 1980's in Dundalk.
(4) Landing of British Helicopters in Irish Defence Force barracks (thought to be British Forces bases when they were ten miles over the border)
(5) Bloody Sunday (very professional one there)
God the list is endless
.....

[johnnysmith]

the thing, lets not get into that crap!! This is about the irish army ranger wing. History is history and that stuff is decades ago;)!!!

A lot us reserveist wear our own boots that we have purchased ourselves ie I have a pair of Meindle`s. The regulars were issiued with the Matterhorn which is said not to be great.

I bought myself a pair of Meindels also. They are quite high up the leg but i really think they are the business! I have them now for a few years and cant complain. Maybe the grip isnt the best but I walked mile upon mile with great comfort and think that they have stopped me from twisting my ankle on a couple of occasions.

The matterhorn that the IDF (Irish Defence Forces) got at the start were great, but the DF must have then gave the manufactoring of the second and every other batch to a cheaper crappier factory:(

[solidus]

1.

[solidus]

Martin sorry to correct you mate but they have cross trained with our forces, and recently too. Some of my old RAF Regiment mates got the chance to train with the ARW when they came over here on exercise, a couple of years after I'd left. The ARW lads all had HK53s decked out with fancy night vision scopes, which my mates had great fun playing with.

that was a hk33/SG1 the arw dont youse the HK53s
http://www.army.ie/images/mp33sg1_small.jpg

[HavocIRL]

Out of interest - wonder if any of the Irish lads can answer the following

1 Irish camouflage - is it unique to the Irish or is it the French european pattern

2 Helmets - who makes them

3 Webbing - what types do you use ( chest rigs etc )

4 How much leeway do you get in getting your own gear

5 Whats the pay like ?

rgds

www.21infantry.com

Its an army reserve site but you should find all the answers you need there, any other queries you have should be directed at the webmaster, he'd be more then happy to answer them.

[Glock]

The ARW use the Steyr AUG A1 /A2 and mostly the Carabine version.They have also diffrent versions of the HK MP5 and SigSauer P226 Pistols. They also have some HK33SG1.
Greatings Leo

[oldsoak]

Out of interest - wonder if any of the Irish lads can answer the following

1 Irish camouflage - is it unique to the Irish or is it the French european pattern

2 Helmets - who makes them

3 Webbing - what types do you use ( chest rigs etc )

4 How much leeway do you get in getting your own gear

5 Whats the pay like ?

rgds

www.21infantry.com

Its an army reserve site but you should find all the answers you need there, any other queries you have should be directed at the webmaster, he'd be more then happy to answer them.

Many thanks for that. Good game of rugby by the way - fair doos to you guys.
:)

[solidus]

Out of interest - wonder if any of the Irish lads can answer the following

1 Irish camouflage - is it unique to the Irish or is it the French european pattern

2 Helmets - who makes them

3 Webbing - what types do you use ( chest rigs etc )

4 How much leeway do you get in getting your own gear

5 Whats the pay like ?

rgds
1 yes the camouflage is unique alot of people thik it the french 1 but its not
they look alike form a distence but up close you can see that the pattern and colours are difrent
french
http://www.henrikc.dk/camouflage/france_centre_europe_f2_back.jpg
irish
http://www.henrikc.dk/camouflage/ireland_dpm_back.jpg
2 like the man sead Originally the design of the current helmet is Israeli, adopted during the early stages of deployment in the Lebanon. However there are new helmets being introduced, while not exactly K-pots they are similar and I believe in use with the Dutch army
3 ive been trying to get a good pic of the rangers chest rigs for a long time
this is the best i found left rangers webbing right apc creue webbing (pics belong to Chuck6d)
http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0WgDpAtwdp5Iq3ZftHqPavfjN*hqAA3ewAtVZfHv2HdugmW5ouTksRc!cOjxSLRP*tlbYrH1xFgKG3afhKS1oAGfYuZ9BHy4GRcwG74XHq*rUDvmKRKVbWhyQG8KgVEVP1tXp11gxxVU/chuckandrecceedited.jpg?dc=4675465077570147937
4 dont know persanaly in in the FCA
5 it ok but could be beater

[oldsoak]

Looks like Irish camo is pretty unique. Like French CE but pattern has smaller blothches and slightly different shades. I certainly cant find anything like it elsewhere. Suprised that they would develop their own considering it would be cheaper to get an established commercial pattern. Having said that, as a neutral country its probably a good idea to have something thats not related to anything else - especially as Ireland gets involved in peace keeping missions where the protagonists might be wearing variations of woodland or DPM. Many thanks BTW.

[FM]

Serb camo is very close.

[G-2]

While digging on the net for ARW pics i found this thread and my my some people have some very odd wet dreams.
Martin sorry to correct you mate but they have cross trained with our forces, and recently too. Some of my old RAF Regiment mates got the chance to train with the ARW when they came over here on exercise, a couple of years after I'd left. The ARW lads all had HK53s decked out with fancy night vision scopes, which my mates had great fun playing with.

During the exercise, my mates were lying in a position on their airfield, which the ARW had the job of infiltrating. Night fell and it was pitch black. My lot suddenly see headlights about 100m in front of them at the edge of the perimeter. They look through their night vision scopes and see several truck loads of the ARW Rangers assault force arriving, with full headlights on! The Rangers then get out, in full view of the defenders, and start pointing out their targets to each other in the dark. Then they load their HK53s in full view of my lot (they could even hear the weapons being loaded!) and start advancing across open ground in the dark.

My mates let them get half way before letting the Rangers have it with GPMGs, LSWs and SA80s. Result - the pride of Ireland's military having to execute a speedy withdrawal with most of their number "dead". My mates couldn't believe it, these so-called elite special operators making such basic fieldcraft and tactical errors, when they were supposed to be covertly infiltrating an installation, and being defeated by some knuckle dragging rockapes!
oh and maybe someone could clarify, does mr tiger have something against us Irish soldiers and if so what because he realy seemed intent on mud slinging (despite not having any mud with which to sling). I realise this thread is an old one but perhaps somebody could clarify that.

[Mike762]

Looks like this might be turning into a flame war. :-(

[G-2]

i wouldn worry bout that mike, it turned into a flame war many moons ago. mine is one of the first posts in a year or two.

[Sabre]

Yes, exactly.

Think about that.

You joined here this month, and decide to drag up a thread that hasn't been posted on for two years, just to argue a point that someone made three years ago????

Why?

[KingerARW]

Yes, exactly.

Think about that.

You joined here this month, and decide to drag up a thread that hasn't been posted on for two years, just to argue a point that someone made three years ago????

Why?


If Carlsberg made posts on MP.Net this would probably be...............:)

[G-2]

Yes, exactly.

Think about that.

You joined here this month, and decide to drag up a thread that hasn't been posted on for two years, just to argue a point that someone made three years ago????

Why?
Found the thread while looking for photos on google. decided to ask a simple question. I do not aim to argue just to ask as I said a question.
If Carlsberg made posts on MP.Net this would probably be...............:-)
Not trying to be paranoid but are you following me from thread to thread Kinger:hug:.

[G-2]

If I am not likely to get an answer on the matter from anyone then I respectfully request that the thread be closed by one of the mods.

[Quantenjaeger]

My mates couldn't believe it, these so-called elite special operators making such basic fieldcraft and tactical errors, when they were supposed to be covertly infiltrating an installation, and being defeated by some !

well they did a great job in fooling some "knuckle dragging rockapes" about their abilities, so they may let their covers down and are caught panties down next time they are to invade the emerald isle.....

[Sabre]

Can people stop posting on this thread?

EDIT: Maybe I should listen to myself...

[KingerARW]

Can people stop posting on this thread?

EDIT: Maybe I should listen to myself...


LOL
Or have it moved to Off Topic and Humour..:)

[G-2]

Ok I'll leave it alone now and forever after (I promise), guess it was just a bit too old too get an answer so I'll forget it. Could a mod close it though, then none shall ever be tempted back to it:).

[G-2]

LOL
Or have it moved to Off Topic and Humour..:)
Well it would fit in nicely there methinks. :)

[RAFREGT]

"knuckle dragging rockapes" .....

GO RAF REGT!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAp-)

[Quantenjaeger]

When I was in the republic i was surprised to find the army responsible for cash escort...
That beeing a nice job, I think, I'd have surely volunteered for during my service!
When you take a look at the incidents in the german security buisness nowadays, you might consider such a deployment!

1.000.000 Euro on a Unimog and me driving in full gear, THAT would be something to tell your kids of...

ROFLMSAO

[G-2]

ROFLMSAO
oooooooooo, my head hurts, less of the text speak I'm not hip and with itrofl
When I was in the republic i was surprised to find the army responsible for cash escort...
It pays in duty money, I'l say that for it and those b****** banks are finaly paying the bill (mostly anyway).

[Quantenjaeger]

I am
Rolling On The Floor Laughing My S******* Ass Off

Since there is sombody to bequite aware of the real situation i'd like to ask:
Whre can i get ANY items in "Paddyflage" for sale?

Last time i asked a reserve guy, he told me i'd be arrested at the border, when beeing caught with such stuff....

True??