Hizbullah flaping their lips again.

[jdbjdb]

Hizbullah threatens to widen conflict

Hizbullah chief Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah threatened to widen Hizbullah's campaign against Israel, news sourced reported. He was speaking at a rally in Beirut attended by about 20,000 supporters on the last day of Ramadan, dubbed "Jerusalem Day" by Iran.

"It is true that the Israeli airforce is powerful, but if they attack our people or our [Syrian] brothers, it is our legitimate right to strike not only the (border) regions but anywhere we can," Al-Bawaba reported Nasrallah as saying. "The arm of resistance is long and its counter-attack will be beyond all expectations."

Nasrallah is yet to respond to the Israeli Cabinet's narrow approval of a prisoner swap

[StarvingStudent47]

Hezbollah, a group founded "to end the occupation of Lebanon," refers to Syria, a country which to this day militarily occupies Lebanon, as "our Syrian brothers."

How. Freaking. Ironic.

[jdbjdb]

Hezbollah, a group founded "to end the occupation of Lebanon," refers to Syria, a country which to this day militarily occupies Lebanon, as "our Syrian brothers."

Why isn't this ever brought up at the UN?

[jdbjdb]

http://www.lukashenko-belarus.com/imgs/ishow.php?code=22&small=1

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

http://www.lukashenko-belarus.com/imgs/ishow.php?code=22&small=1
Ya dude busted eh rofl
Thats classy...so anyways ya I believe Hezbollah is full of **** and would get bombed mercilessly by Israeli forces if they ever stepped out onto the battlefield.

[S'13]

Hezbollah, a group founded "to end the occupation of Lebanon," refers to Syria, a country which to this day militarily occupies Lebanon, as "our Syrian brothers."

Why isn't this ever brought up at the UN?

http://www.sedmoykanal.org/data/images/2001/07/26/UN-Hizballah-II-260.jpg

[Mr. Nielsen]

The context in which Nasrallah was speaking about attacking Israel was this:


BEIRUT (*******) - The leader of Lebanon's Hizbollah group Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah said on Friday his guerrillas would retaliate fiercely if Israel attacked Lebanon and Syria.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1312&ncid=1312&e=1&u=/nm/20031121/wl_nm/mideast_hizbollah_dc_1

[Mr. Nielsen]

Ya dude busted eh
Thats classy...so anyways ya I believe Hezbollah is full of **** and would get bombed mercilessly by Israeli forces if they ever stepped out onto the battlefield.

Hezbollah is hard to hit, as they have have a very light decentralized infrastructure. Thats properly why they are the one talking tough, not the syrians.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Quote:
Hezbollah, a group founded "to end the occupation of Lebanon," refers to Syria, a country which to this day militarily occupies Lebanon, as "our Syrian brothers."


Why isn't this ever brought up at the UN?

I don't think think there are any resolutions demanding syrian withdrawal. Among other things because the syrian presence keep the lid on the sectarian conflict, and no one in the west wants to see the mess of the civil war again.

Also its nowhere an occupation like the israeli of the Westbank, Gaza and east Jerusalem

[UoUo]

Tell me please the diffrence between the west bank...and lebanon.

[IDFM203]

I don't think think there are any resolutions demanding syrian withdrawal. yeah that’s because there is not a single resolution of any Arab state as well as any terrorist organisation that is in a conflict against Israel, that’s because most don’t even get a vote and if one does, the Arab block prevents any from happening. Now if they do it with the conflict with Israel they sure as hell will not do it with the occupation of Syria to Lebanon

Yeah, no resolution against the Arabs…yeah I guess they most be the most peacfull angles on this planet :roll: rofl :roll:


Among other things because the syrian presence keep the lid on the sectarian conflict, and no one in the west wants to see the mess of the civil war again. that’s such a laughable quote coming from some one that is supposedly concerned about human rights in the Israeli territories :roll:

Yeah they keep a lid, hey do it by using the most brutal tactics, like arresting hundreds with no reason and torturing them, like killing any one or throwing them in hard jail that speaks out against the Syrian occupation or regime, like going in one day in a town called HAMA and killing 20,000 people in one day…simply levelling the town. And there are other cases like that!!

Yeah they keep a lid on it…… :roll:


Also its nowhere an occupation like the israeli of the Westbank, Gaza and east Jerusalem yeah your damn right they are different!!!! Israel never even did close to anything like the Syrians have done!!! In fact in all the conflict with the Palestinians in the past 35 years they haven’t killed as many Palestinians (be it innocents, terrorists, murderer, killers etc..) as the Syrians have done in one day!!

Believe me, if Israel acted the way the Syrians have, this conflict would have been very quite years ago!!!!!

We don’t and we pay a high price for our restraint!!

Shalom :D

[Mr. Nielsen]

Mr. Nielsen wrote:


I don't think think there are any resolutions demanding syrian withdrawal.
yeah that’s because there is not a single resolution of any Arab state as well as any terrorist organisation that is in a conflict against Israel, that’s because most don’t even get a vote and if one does, the Arab block prevents any from happening. Now if they do it with the conflict with Israel they sure as hell will not do it with the occupation of Syria to Lebanon

I was referring to security council resolutions. And as the syrians are there with the blessing of the Arab League, the arab states have of course not sponsored any in the general assembly.

[IDFM203]

Mr. Nielsen wrote:


I don't think think there are any resolutions demanding syrian withdrawal.
yeah that’s because there is not a single resolution of any Arab state as well as any terrorist organisation that is in a conflict against Israel, that’s because most don’t even get a vote and if one does, the Arab block prevents any from happening. Now if they do it with the conflict with Israel they sure as hell will not do it with the occupation of Syria to Lebanon

I was referring to security council resolutions. And as the syrians are there with the blessing of the Arab League, the arab states have of course not sponsored any in the general assembly.exactly my point as well!!! (I was referring to it as well!!)

To make it clearer, you somehow tried to insinuate that because they don’t have any resolutions against them (of course due to the arab block that will always try pervent any resolution thats negative to any arab state)then they most be doing nothing wrong and all I did was to show how ridicules that insinuation is.

Shalom :D

[Mr. Nielsen]

The syrian presence is not as controversial as the israeli presence in the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem because syria dosn't have any land claims in contravention with international law.

Also the lebanese have elections and runs most of their own affairs though the syrians have strong influence over in particular security and foreign affairs matters.

[Mr. Nielsen]

To make it clearer, you somehow tried to insinuate that because they don’t have any resolutions against them (of course due to the arab block that will always try pervent any resolution thats negative to any arab state)then they most be doing nothing wrong and all I did was to show how ridicules that insinuation is.

This subject comes up:


Quote:
Hezbollah, a group founded "to end the occupation of Lebanon," refers to Syria, a country which to this day militarily occupies Lebanon, as "our Syrian brothers."


Why isn't this ever brought up at the UN?

I answer that to my knowledge its correct that it haven't been brought up at the UN, certainly not to the extent of a security council resolution.

Then I give my imput as to why that might be so.

[IDFM203]

The syrian presence is not as controversial as the israeli presence in the west bank, gaza and east jerusalem because syria dosn't have any land claims in contravention with international law. so Syria having over 35,000 troops in what is to them a foreign land and is occupying them, that is not a contravention of any laws?????

So Syria’s occupation where they “do it by using the most brutal tactics, like arresting hundreds with no reason and torturing them, like killing any one or throwing them in hard jail that speaks out against the Syrian occupation or regime, like going in one day in a town called HAMA and killing 20,000 people in one day…simply levelling the town. And there are other cases like that!!” that is not breaking any international laws.

But hey with Libya on the human rights council and the arab blcok perventing any negetive laws, I guess the human rights laws or occupation laws are never going to be applied to Syria!!!

As for the west bank, and the 1967 war, I am not going to get into here but to say that with the Arab and soviet blocks making the laws or having major say in it, it is pointless to argue or to even get into the justifications of these “laws”.



Also the lebanese have elections and runs most of their own affairs though the syrians have strong influence over in particular security and foreign affairs matters. seriously, if you don’t believe that the Syrians have the ultimate say in what ever happens there, then you are overtly naive!!! Big time!!

Shalom :D

[Mr. Nielsen]

So Syria’s occupation where they “do it by using the most brutal tactics, like arresting hundreds with no reason and torturing them, like killing any one or throwing them in hard jail that speaks out against the Syrian occupation or regime, like going in one day in a town called HAMA and killing 20,000 people in one day…simply levelling the town. And there are other cases like that!!” that is not breaking any international laws.

I have no doubt that the syrians can overule the lebanese govenrment in any foreign affairs or security matter.

But as I perceive it, the syrian presence in Lebanon is not the total occupation that the palestinians experience in their day to day lives.

Then again lebanese internal affairs are not a subject i have given much time so perhaps i'm wrong.

Maybe someone that know things there might give an input as how the syrians presence or occupation is felt. I have the idea that ONE is of lebanese origin, perhaps he knows.

[Mr. Nielsen]

so Syria having over 35,000 troops in what is to them a foreign land and is occupying them, that is not a contravention of any laws?????

Syria has pulled out troops for the last couple of years, i think its more like 15,000 now.

I believe that Hama is an internal syrian affair better left for a general discussion of the regime of hafez al-Assad. I think International law deals mostly with interstate relations, and thats why the USSR could talk about it while suppressing hundreds of millions of its own citizens. I'm talking in general here, in lebanon i suppose the syrian would say they are there with the consent of the lebanese.

[IDFM203]

So Syria’s occupation where they “do it by using the most brutal tactics, like arresting hundreds with no reason and torturing them, like killing any one or throwing them in hard jail that speaks out against the Syrian occupation or regime, like going in one day in a town called HAMA and killing 20,000 people in one day…simply levelling the town. And there are other cases like that!!” that is not breaking any international laws.

I have no doubt that the syrians can overule the lebanese govenrment in any foreign affairs or security matter.

But as I perceive it, the syrian presence in Lebanon is not the total occupation that the palestinians experience in their day to day lives.

Then again lebanese internal affairs are not a subject i have given much time so perhaps i'm wrong.

Maybe someone that know things there might give an input as how the syrians presence or occupation is felt. I have the idea that ONE is of lebanese origin, perhaps he knows. No its because the violence against Syria is now muted or not even attempted anymore due to their extremely harsh tactics that they have done that Israel hasn’t come close to.

Now as “one” said before, the Syrian army pulled out of Beirut and is in the outskirts but believe me if the Christians or anyone else there were to do what the Palestinians are doing, they would be all killed, no questions asked, just like in HAMA (where the Syrians killed 20,000 people in one day)

I say again, if Israel had acted the way the Syrians have to the Palestinians, the conflict would be very quiet and muted years ago!!!

No, Israel indeed pays a high price for its moral and correct restraint!!!!

Shalom :D

[IDFM203]

Here is a Lebanese website about that HAMA massacre

http://cp.yahoo.net/search/cache?p=syria+and+hama&ei=UTF-8&n=20&fl=0&url=uB9oE2-MwGEJ:www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorsy.htm

Here is more from that website on what the syrians have done in Lebanon!!

http://www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorlb.htm

Warning, some graphic material is there!!

as one reponse to your other post, as for consent well I guess it all depends on who you ask in Lebanon ;) !!!!

shalom :D

[StarvingStudent47]

A few more things I found on the Syrian occupation of Lebanon with a quick google search:

http://freelebanon.org/articles/a381.htm--a laundry-list of Syrian atrocities in Lebanon.

http://www.generalaoun.org/freedomwriter7.html--an emotional essay from a Lebanese "freedom fighter" decrying the evils of Syrian occupation.

http://www.meforum.org/article/546--a level-tempered, political science-esque examination of some of Syria's motivations for occupying Lebanon.

http://www.meib.org/articles/0103_l1.htm--contains an explanation of why the United States hasn't objected to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Interesting links StarvingStudent47.

The first two seems to be made by people originating from lebanon. I think Aoun was one of the losers in the struggle for power in lebanon. The last two appears to be associated with Daniel pipes and his Mid East Forum.

It could still be interesting to hear some lebanese who could tell about their day to day experiences.

[jdbjdb]

If hizbollah keeps it up, I say go into Syria and push them out the way the IDF went into Lebanon to push the PLO terrorist out.

[California Joe]

Frankly I just wish that someone would make them spell their damned name one way and be done with it. Assheads.

[One?]

LOOL you hate them but you can't do anything other than make cartoons and bitch on boards.


Sad yet funny :P

Salam :D

[jdbjdb]

*flap flap* shabbat shalom!

[StarvingStudent47]

LOOL you hate them but you can't do anything other than make cartoons and bitch on boards.


Sad yet funny :P

Salam :D

Hey One, aren't you Lebanese? What is your opinion of the Syrian occupation? Do you think it's benevolent, or a real crime? I think this thread would really benefit from your opinion.

Thanks! Salam :)

[jdbjdb]

http://www.geocities.com/cedarlandarchive1/3029.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/cedarlandarchive1/3027.jpg

[alexjulian]

who brought the salami into this debate

[One?]

If you want to understand why the Syrians are i lebanon you have to know the history of the lebanese civil war, and the history dating back to the ottoman occupation of the area. You can do your own research ;)


The war erupted because of the palestinians. Maronite christians boarded a bus and murdered 13 palestinian civilians. That marked the first day of the lebanese civil 1975.


The Maronites (a Christian Catholic Sect) do not consider themselves arabs. They say that arabs are only muslims. Although "eastern" christians are more arabs then muslims.


Maronites allied with Israel as they do not precieve it as an enemy. The wanted to create an entity and then make their own country. They wanted to use the Israeli model.

The Lebanese army was split, its equipment was stolen (Helicopters, and the naval vesseles, were stolen by the Christian phalangist militia the "Lebanese Forces". They stole tanks, APCs, weapons everything). They were later supplied and trained by Israel. They were a huge army in a country.


General Aoun was in the army but he was a maronite himself. He formulated a plan for the Lebanese forces to enter Camp Tel El Za'atar and literlay ended its existence.


The war kept going between the differnet militia's. But the difference was that the Maronites would make checkpoints and kill anyone that was a muslim. In 1 day (Black September) over 200 muslims were executed in fuked up ways (putting them in bags and then drowing them in acid, beeting them with axes, shooting them, or simply throwing them in the sea. They had hatered towards muslims that was unbelievable.


Not that the muslims didn't kill either. The Kataeb (another christian militia that took part in Black September) had its HQ in downtown beirut. After the massacare the muslims, comunists and syrian nationalists took over the building and started throwing the militia men out of a 30 story hotel.

It came to a point that everyone had his own army and no one could stop the chaos. A coaltion entered beirut to stop the mess, and the syrians were one of the armies that entered beirut. They entered lebanon at the request of the Christians, because the syrians could pressure the palestinians, and left wingers to stop.


The killing stopped for a while and then started again. And it kept stopping and erupting, and allies changed, syrians became the christians enemy, chrisitians fought eachother and it came down to brothers killing eachother for an ideologyu. Until the 1990. General Aoun wanted to kick
the syrians out. So he took over the presidential palace and started fighting the Syrian army. The lebanese forces at that time hated General Aoun so they fought with the Syrians against him. To make a long story short he lost, the civil war ended in the Taef accord, and Aoun was exiled to France.

Now the Christian Militias lost their pride. The leader of the largest militia Samir Jaa'Jaa (leader of the Lebanese Forces) was put in jail for war crimes and for assasinating a Lebanese president. The other militias gave up their weapons. So they basicaly lost the war. The militiamen fled to the the south were the war with Israel wasn't over. The joined the SLA (lebanese who betrayed their countries and collaborated with israel) Everyone gave their weapons up except for hezbollah. The government allowed them to keep their weapons as long as they are resisting the Israeli occupation.


Syria who once fought Hezbollah now started supporting them. This angered the Maronites even more. The Syrians are helping the muslims gain more power, and their hope of making their own country failed.


The war did not end their. The SLA was still killing muslims in the south, and the children of the parents who fought in the war were fed the information that "muslims are your enemy and they want to kill you". Those who fled during the war still have the mentality of the war they did not change. So the anger is still there.

The hatered between maronites and muslims have grew over the past 5 years and it has become very serious.


Now why are the syrians in lebanon? The Syrians are in lebanon because the lebanese government requested so. There are no longer any visible syrian soldeirs on the streets (like it used to be before). All their equipment have been moved to the north and the Bekaa vallet. All they have left is SAM sites and some strategic bases.

All those who want to kick syria out, took part in the war, and were on the maronite side. If syria pulls out lebanon will get into another civil war and this time it will be hell.

Aoun met with several evangilist preachers and that is seen as a threat. Why? We all know what evangilists want. They want to build the 3rd temple so Jesus will come back. Why would Aoun meet with them if he doesnt want to start another war? You might laugh but to him its a serious issue. Its a very personal religious war.


An occupation is when a country forcefully invades in your country and controls your daily life. Well syria came at a request and they will only leave when they are requested to. So far they are needed. The US was requested to help Saudi Arabia, and so far they are still there. Would you call that an occupation?????

---------------------------------
Sorry my information is not organized as I would like it to be but I just got back from work and I can't move. I posted because you requested my opinion.


Salam :)

[alexjulian]

CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?

Is that a reference to the Lebanese??

[IDFM203]

CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG?

Is that a reference to the Lebanese?? That is truly an awesome response!!! :D

I was going to get into it but that right there says it all.

Like I said before, asking the views on Lebanon seriously hinges on which Lebanese you ask, for depending on the ethnic makeup or religious make up, you will get all sorts of various and differnt answers.

I see “one” has given HIS answer, which is very understandable and I can guarantee you that there are other Lebanese, be it from different ethnic and religious groups, or even some from the same, that strongly disagree and think the exact opposite of what he just said!!

Here is a repeat of my previous post, which has some links as to what some of the other Lebanese think about the Syrian occupation.

“Here is a Lebanese website about that HAMA massacre

http://cp.yahoo.net/search/cache?p=syria+and+hama&ei=UTF-8&n=20&fl=0&url=uB9oE2-MwGEJ:www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorsy.htm

Here is more from that website on what the syrian occupation has done in Lebanon!!

http://www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorlb.htm

Warning, some graphic material is there!!

As one response to your other post (this is to Mr neilson), as for consent well I guess it all depends on who you ask in Lebanon ;) !!!!”

Just to make clear. All these rivalries and ethnic and religious fighting in Lebanon was going on way before Israel got involved due to the PLO attacks coming from there

Shalom :D

[One?]

Lebanon is a great country to live in don't get me wrong. no wonder why Israel wants it :P

Lebanese have been fighting since the 1800's. It started between the Druze and the Maronites.

Israel inflamed the war and the rest of the work helped out too. If they didnt send arms then we wouldnt be in a mess.


IDF I will not deny that syrians killed lebanese people. And you don't know how much it hurts to know that lebanese officers were executed. But the website that you posted is bull****.


To me Jmayel was never a lebanese president. He was a leader of a militia, brought to power by israel along with his brother later on. He was not killed by the syrians. He was killed by the NSSP. And it says that Saeka was created by the syrians. Well Saeka was part of the Fateh movement. They did not only kill christians in the south they killed muslims too. They had no friend I guess.

You can say syria did this and syria did that but the ones who are saying this killed thousands of innocnet palestinian woman and children in Sabra an Chatila over a period of 3 days :)


Cant we all get along <-- I doubt the lebanese will ever get along. Oh wait actualy we can. Give us the newest car, latest cell phone, most expensive clothes, and the best night club. We will live happily ever after (im serious).

[IDFM203]

Lebanon is a great country to live in don't get me wrong. no wonder why Israel wants it :P Believe me we don’t want it!! p-) If we did we could have taken the whole country and not just stood there in defence in the south in stationary positions after kicking out the PLO, where later on hetaballh started attacking us (and then the left Barak government pulled us out for political reasons).

But in truth, yeah I would like to visit Beirut one day. Simply out of curiosity, But I don’t think that will ever happen…..oh well :roll:


Israel inflamed the war and the rest of the work helped out too. If they didnt send arms then we wouldnt be in a mess. wow typical, blame Israel for this as well :roll: ( I mean the arab world already blames tiny Israel for all its problems you might as well add this one as well :roll: )

Listen Lebanon tore itself apart way before Israel got involved. The Lebanese civil war is not Israel’s making at all.

Beirut was bombed out way before Israel went in to fight against the PLO that was attacking positions in Israel

Like even you say “Lebanese have been fighting since the 1800's. It started between the Druze and the Maronites”


To me Jmayel was never a lebanese president. He was a leader of a militia, brought to power by israel along with his brother later onExactly to YOU he wasn’t but to many others he was. Now whether he was brought to power by the Israelis or not is moot point for regardless these are whole ethnic or religious group or groups that would have brought someone to power with or without Israel’s help


He was not killed by the syrians. He was killed by the NSSP. And it says that Saeka was created by the syrians. Well Saeka was part of the Fateh movement. They did not only kill christians in the south they killed muslims too. They had no friend I guess. yes and as you know Lebanon is not strictly a Christian VS. Muslim thing but rather about all sorts of different tribal, ethnic and religious groups and that means even some in the same religions are fighting each other. Everyone seems to be fighting each other. All the numerous groups be it tribal, ethnic, religious!!!

And from that you have some that have indeed welcomed Syria as allies to them in all this and you also have a lot of Lebanese that have not.

The bottom line is that Syria is occupying Lebanon and is committing these atrocities http://www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorlb.htm against Lebanese citizens and civilians.


You can say syria did this and syria did that but the ones who are saying this killed thousands of innocnet palestinian woman and children in Sabra an Chatila over a period of 3 days :) …..and besides the civil war where both sides killed hundreds of thousands of people!! They say that it was revenge for the massacres committed by various muslim groups where thousands were slaughtered like for example in “1975: Belt Mellat, Deir Eshash Tall Abbas (north Lebanon), Damur (Mount Lebanon)
1976: Chekka (north Lebanon), Qaa, Terbol (Bekaa valley)
1977: Aishye (south Lebanon), Maaser el-Shuf (Shuf Mountain)
1978: Ras Baalbeck, Shleefa (Bekaa valley).

Just some of the many examples of such masseceres commited by the muslims.

Listen I am not defending the Christians here, all I am saying is that there are many sides to the Lebanase "story".

The thing is that these are all Lebanese and they all have hatreds for their fellow citizens.(depending on which group or religion you belong to as to who you hate)


Cant we all get along <-- I doubt the lebanese will ever get along. Oh wait actualy we can. Give us the newest car, latest cell phone, most expensive clothes, and the best night club. We will live happily ever after (im serious). heheh I suspect if WE gave everyone that, there would be much less killings ;) (although I still doubt that :| )

Btw on a somewhat positive note, doesn’t Lebanon have the highest cell phone use per capita then anywhere in the world???

P.S. where are you from in Lebanon??

Shalom :D

[StarvingStudent47]

I thought Finland, not Lebanon, had the most cell phones per capita in the world. And I'm pretty sure Finland also has the highest suicide rate in the world. Coincidence? ;)

[One?]

Btw on a somewhat positive note, doesn’t Lebanon have the highest cell phone use per capita then anywhere in the world???


It could be. I mean if you are starving and have no food you have to buy the latest cell phone or do one of the 4 things i listed before.

Israel works in mysterious ways. If Israel did not support the LF I don't think they wouldnt have been able to do what they did. And don't tell me that Israel did not benefit from the war. The Maronites were allies with Israel, they helped in the invasion of lebanon. They were also your allies in the South (SLA).


Where am I from? LOL guess!

[PsihoKeke]

I have question for one. If Black September hapened in Jordania, how could Lebanese Christian militias took part in it?

[StarvingStudent47]

Israel works in mysterious ways. If Israel did not support the LF I don't think they wouldnt have been able to do what they did. And don't tell me that Israel did not benefit from the war. The Maronites were allies with Israel, they helped in the invasion of lebanon. They were also your allies in the South (SLA).

Israel didn't benefit from the war. There were no economic gains and no territorial gains. Yes, Israel allied with certain sects in their fight against the PLO. But having an ally in a fight doesn't mean you benefit overall from the fight. If Lebanon had been a stable country instead of a violent maelstrom from which the PLO could launch terrorist attacks, Israel wouldn't have had to go in at all. So I don't see how you can say that Israel benefitted from the war.

[One?]

Telling me that you and your people did not benefit is bull****. You stayed there for 20 years because people were helping you out. Otherwise you would have been kicked out earlier.

When they allied with the LF they didn't do it because they loved them. We all know what they did to the SLA after they withdrew in 2000. They did it because they had plans for them, thus benefiting from these militias.

I'll tell you how they "were" going to benefit from it. Gmayel met with Israeli generals in Israel and they discussed peace. So the Israelis installed gmeyal as a president (yes by force, when they sarrounded the parliament) and then they would sign a peace agreement making sure that all its borders are safe (egypt, jordan and lebanon). So do not tell me that Israel did not benefit. Its either that or you don't know history.


I have question for one. If Black September hapened in Jordania

There are too many black septembers. Its not the same as the one in jordan. I guess september is a fuked up month :).



Eshash Tall Abbas (north Lebanon), Damur (Mount Lebanon)
1976: Chekka (north Lebanon), Qaa, Terbol (Bekaa valley)
1977: Aishye (south Lebanon), Maaser el-Shuf (Shuf Mountain)
1978: Ras Baalbeck, Shleefa (Bekaa valley).


Most of these were carried out by the Druze. Muslims do not consider druze as muslims they have their own beliefs and philosophy.

[IDFM203]

“Btw on a somewhat positive note, doesn’t Lebanon have the highest cell phone use per capita then anywhere in the world???”


It could be. I mean if you are starving and have no food you have to buy the latest cell phone or do one of the 4 things i listed before. why are Lebanese starving????? :roll:

Yeah yeah I know the expected and typical Arab response…Israel’s fault right?!? :roll: Its like all the 22 Arab nations haven’t produced a single marketable product for the world market (expect for some of them finding oil) but then blaming tiny Israel for all their problems :roll:

Ok seriously though, why are they starving???


Israel works in mysterious ways. If Israel did not support the LF I don't think they wouldnt have been able to do what they did. And don't tell me that Israel did not benefit from the war. The Maronites were allies with Israel, they helped in the invasion of lebanon. They were also your allies in the South (SLA). listen Israel kicked out the PLO with their tanks and planes and soldiers. It got help but it wasn’t critical to accomplish that mission. The problem was when Israel foolishly (there I said it) thought afterwards that it can try to meddle into Lebanon’s internal affaires and try to play politics so it can have a friendly and peaceful government instead of a hostile one but it didn’t work for that is an impossible mission to do considering Lebanon’s various tribal, ethnic groups and religious groups.

I think Israel did a mistake by trying to do this for its an imposable task and it should have just concentrated militarily as it was successful and then retreated to lines in the south and fight from there if more attacks were to come afterwards (and go on the offensive if need be, which it never really did)

Telling me that you and your people did not benefit is bull****. You stayed there for 20 years because people were helping you out. Otherwise you would have been kicked out earlier. No we benefited in help In our long fight against terror but that was it, for we did not benefit from the “riches” (if there is any there :roll: ) of that country.

Secondly we didn’t get kicked out, A left labour government pulled us out for political reasons in the hope of a full peace with everyone. Lets not forget that this was before, the intifada and Barak foolishly thought that the Arabs were interested in peace and so he thought that by pulling out the troops, he could make peace with the Palestinians as well as with Lebanon as well as with Syria.

Wow the stupidity of the left Barak government never ceases to amuse me :roll:


I'll tell you how they "were" going to benefit from it. Gmayel met with Israeli generals in Israel and they discussed peace. So the Israelis installed gmeyal as a president (yes by force, when they sarrounded the parliament) and then they would sign a peace agreement making sure that all its borders are safe (egypt, jordan and lebanon). So do not tell me that Israel did not benefit. Its either that or you don't know history. oh I am sorry if Israel wants its benefits to be peace!! I mean geez you said it yourself here. Yes here again you show us how your side is not interested!!! I mean I read your paragraph here and it just highlights the problem that Israel faces.

Secondly we surrounded the parliament for Lebanon had been in a state of war since the civil war killed hundreds of thousands and as such everyone has enemies and this was a time of war (against the PLO) and he needed some protection and as we see when Israel wasn’t guarding him, he got assassinated. Even after a lot of Lebanese voted for him as president.

I say again, views on Lebanon vary depending on which Lebanese you ask.


Where am I from? LOL guess! oh yeah that’s right, Your not from Lebanon!!! I knew you lived in Canada but I had assumed that you were at least born and grew up in Lebanon but I guess you haven’t. (I honestly forgot but you might have told me this a while ago, I apologise if you did and I forgot now)

shalom :D

[One?]

I thought you were asking where I am from lebanon :oops:


You wanted peace your way. And I said "IF" the lebanese are starving and actualy the government is starving the people somehow.


Out of the 22 arab countries only 2 give a **** about Israel and the rest don't care.


Arabs have marketable products not only oil :) Look it up on google ;)


Salam :)

[IDFM203]

You wanted peace your way. yes we wanted the killings from your side to stop so we wouldn’t have to respond constantly. That’s called peace. Killings by both sides end!!! Israel went into Lebanon to stop the PLO attacks and after it tried to make Lebanon into a peaceful neighbouring nation with less violence, which as we see is an impossible thing to do in Lebanon :roll:


And I said "IF" the lebanese are starving and actualy the government is starving the people somehow. Ok I said, ““Btw on a somewhat positive note, doesn’t Lebanon have the highest cell phone use per capita then anywhere in the world???” and then you said “It could be. I mean if you are starving and have no food you have to buy the latest cell phone or do one of the 4 things i listed before.” That’s seems pretty clear that you were saying that Lebanon has a high cell phone usage due to them starving.

But anyways I know you were being sarcastic…..right ;)

Anyways regardless of this, ok so I am actually curious, how is the Syrian ;) , ooops Lebanese government, starving the people??? Really I want to know………….


Out of the 22 arab countries only 2 give a **** about Israel and the rest don't care. Boy I wish it were the maximum number (of course I wish for zero but two is better then 22)but unfortunately its not and the Arab world (all 22 Arab nations) harps and whines about Israel from today till tomorrow blaming them for everything wrong with the middle east.. The fact is that most Arab nations consider Israel a sworn enemy and that if they had the power, they would attack to destroy it (as Iran is attempting to do)


Arabs have marketable products not only oil :) Look it up on google ;) well I actually tried google but came up empty so I went to yahoo and there too I came up short and then I went to ………well you know the results ;) …..sorry buddy, couldn’t find anything :roll:


Shalom :D

[One?]

here you go man buy the book:

http://www.arabproductdirectory.com

[IDFM203]

here you go man buy the book:

http://www.arabproductdirectory.com “shukran” (sp?)

Well thanks for that site for I actually took to browsing there for a second (for I am indeed curious as to what or if there is any marketable product for the world market coming from any of these Arab countires) and came up yet again empty. I mean they have this search for companies and industries directory and you can select the Arab country, and I kid you not, except for Qatar (with all of five local companies to the local market) the rest had a massage. “This Page is underconstruction” and that was for all the Arab nations. (oh and my guess is that page will be there for a long while ;) )

But hey I tried google and then yahoo and I guess this was a good try but still the same………ok so what’s the next search engine you want me to try ;)


Oh and I asked this before in response to what you said “ok so I am actually curious, how is the Syrian ;) , ooops Lebanese government, starving the people??? Really I want to know………….”

I really am curious to know about this as well..

Shalom :D

[One?]

The government is corrupt man. They get so much help from foreign nations to rebuild lebanon yet the money disappears somehow. I mean they rebuilt most of the country and its great. But they still steal money. The population is increasin and the country is small. Graduates from engineering, pharmaceutical, doctors, and IT programs yet they can't find jobs. THere are more graduates than there are jobs.

And if you cant work then you cant make money, and if you dont have money you will find it hard to maintain your high standard of living.

And its not a syrian government. The MP and government were elected by the people :)

[IDFM203]

The government is corrupt man. They get so much help from foreign nations to rebuild lebanon yet the money disappears somehow. I mean they rebuilt most of the country and its great. But they still steal money.


And its not a syrian government. The MP and government were elected by the people :) ok yes it’s a “Lebanese” show government that is beholden to Syria which is occupying Lebanon. Here is a quote that I found that I thought accurately sums up the situation and reality there.
Some forty thousand Syrian soldiers and an untold number of clandestine Syrian operatives and agents presently control at least ninety-percent of Lebanese territory. All politics, domestic and foreign, emanating from the Beirut "government" cater to Syrian goals instead of serving the needs of the Lebanese people and Lebanon's national interest. To a man, the Beirut puppet government is subservient to the wishes of Damascus. The hitherto pathetic spectacle of Lebanese "officials" scurrying across the border to seek favor and approval from their Syrian masters, by now embarrassingly well known around the world, has subsided somewhat since the new Syrian installed team took over last fall. Instead of boding well for Lebanon, this development signals, if anything, a tighter Syrian control over the country. So high is Damascus' confidence in its new team of Beirut puppets that it has openly taken to discouraging the two-way traffic of Lebanese politicians between the two cities, referring all would-be callers to the new Syrian-appointed president of Lebanon, Emile Lahoud.
-David Epperly, The American Lebanese Institute, before The US Senate Foreign Budget Committee, March 4, 1999
Well perhaps that also explains where the money for the Lebanese people are going….hmmm just a thought. perhaps you can disagree and tell me where you think the money that the Lebanese “government” has and what it does with it as to why alot of its people are starving or cant find work.

As for elected by the people. Here is a link to a detailed analysis of what the article calls “Special Report: How Syria Orchestrates Lebanon's Elections” which is written with the help of some Lebanese people and sources.
http://cp.yahoo.net/search/cache?p=lebanon+elections&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&url=0uYs3HKXB6AJ:www.meib.org/articles/0008_l1.htm

Shalom :D

[One?]

Syrian army covers 90% of lebanese territoyry? LOL thats funny. Maybe back before 95 I would agree with you but not anymore. I mean the last time I was in lebanon was a year ago and I didn't see any syrians wondering around.


As for who steals the money? Well you have the Prime Minister, he likes to take some for his pocket and ofcourse he has to give some to his friends. Also the contracts go to companies that are owned by ministers or someone close to him. I mean each minister has the latest mercedes with 8 new SUVs and who knows how many security guards. Now ofcourse he has to rip the people off to pay for all these things.


As to who elects the ministers well its too bad that the maronites and right wing christian groups did not want to vote. Their parties asked them not to vote so they lost the elections. And if you don't vote you dont have the right to complain.

[IDFM203]

Syrian army covers 90% of lebanese territoyry? LOL thats funny. Maybe back before 95 I would agree with you but not anymore. I mean the last time I was in lebanon was a year ago and I didn't see any syrians wondering around. first of all that quote was written in 1999.
Secondly I know people ( and no they are not the SLA)that have been to Lebanon and they have seen them.

Thirdly whether its 90 or less or whether its 40,000 troops or less, the bottom line is that Syria is in Lebanon and has troops there. If Lebanon were a sovereign and independent country, it wouldn’t have a single Syrian soldier there. It is not and it is living in a Syrian controlled occupation.

The real power is coming from Syria, I repeat, “ok yes it’s a “Lebanese” show government that is beholden to Syria which is occupying Lebanon. Here is a quote that I found that I thought accurately sums up the situation and reality there. "Some forty thousand Syrian soldiers and an untold number of clandestine Syrian operatives and agents presently control at least ninety-percent of Lebanese territory. All politics, domestic and foreign, emanating from the Beirut "government" cater to Syrian goals instead of serving the needs of the Lebanese people and Lebanon's national interest. To a man, the Beirut puppet government is subservient to the wishes of Damascus. The hitherto pathetic spectacle of Lebanese "officials" scurrying across the border to seek favor and approval from their Syrian masters, by now embarrassingly well known around the world, has subsided somewhat since the new Syrian installed team took over last fall. Instead of boding well for Lebanon, this development signals, if anything, a tighter Syrian control over the country. So high is Damascus' confidence in its new team of Beirut puppets that it has openly taken to discouraging the two-way traffic of Lebanese politicians between the two cities, referring all would-be callers to the new Syrian-appointed president of Lebanon, Emile Lahoud.”

And yes the Syrian soldiers have retreated a bit out of the major cities for that was only recently and only after years of total brutality that has left Lebanon without anyone to stand up and challenge them for out fear not out of any true acceptance. Believe me, if there were to be an attempt of true opposition, the Syrians would be right back in their brutal and harsh manner inside Beirut and elsewhere before I can snap my finger.


As for who steals the money? Well you have the Prime Minister, he likes to take some for his pocket and ofcourse he has to give some to his friends. Also the contracts go to companies that are owned by ministers or someone close to him. I mean each minister has the latest mercedes with 8 new SUVs and who knows how many security guards. Now ofcourse he has to rip the people off to pay for all these things. even withwhat you say, that still doesn’t add up unless of course you feel that the Lebanese economy to begin with is worth only a few Mercedes and a few bucks to this official or to that.

I mean lets see, while there is certainly corruption. Syria is the true power so again, hmmm perhaps its going to Syria :roll: , again just a thought. ;) (But hey you can wear your blinders on to that truth if you want, its your people that they are hurting)


As to who elects the ministers well its too bad that the maronites and right wing christian groups did not want to vote. well with your brush I am sure they can call the Muslims, fanatical Muslims. The point is that Lebanon has Muslims of all types and it also has Christians of all types (not all right wing Christians, as if that makes any difference anyways to our discussion, which it does not!!)
Secondly, all various groups didn’t vote for they do not want to be apart of that farce and also fearing the Syrians come in like they did in 1990 and start the killings and etc… . I suggest you read carefully again the article I posted about how Syria manipulates the elections.


P.S. I am still waiting on that new link to another search engine ;) , for I had no luck with yahoo and no luck with google and also with the last site that you provided me with.

Shalom :D

[One?]

The right wing christian parties called all their members NOT TO VOTE and to run for elections. I'm not saying all christians other parties ran but Aoun, LF, part of the Kataeb, and the Ahrar chose not to. And now they bitch about it. Well its their fault to begin with.


The Kataeb opened channels with other parties and wanted to forget about its history. They wanted to start a new page. Well what do you know they are hated and the party split up and its in a mess now.


As for the money going to syria thats not true. Anyone in lebanon knows who the money is going to. If I know a minister I'll be rich the next day. My best friend's dad is an officer in the ministry of the interior. His salary should be about 1500$ a month. Well he has 3 drivers, 2 Jeep Cherokees (one for each son) his wife has a BMW 320. He has a mecedes. Thats nothing.

He has 2 challets in the most expensive resort in lebanon. A boat and a jet ski. They spend more than a CEO. Where does he get the money from? Well he is close to the Prime Minister so he gets the best position, and all the money he wants.



Go here and search the websites. http://www.google.ca/search?q=arab+%2B+manufactured+%2B+products&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=


Check where ROOTS get some of their clothes from before sewing their logo on it :roll:

[IDFM203]

To “One”

Like I said before, asking a Lebanese about Lebanon depends on which Lebanese you ask for I am sure the Christians Lebanese or other Lebanese groups have a vastly different story to tell

Anyways the bottom line is again “whether its 90 or less or whether its 40,000 troops or less, the bottom line is that Syria is in Lebanon and has troops there. If Lebanon were a sovereign and independent country, it wouldn’t have a single Syrian soldier there. It is not and it is living in a Syrian controlled occupation”

As for the corruption. Again, Lebanese officials are corrupt no doubt, but a lot of that money goes to the real power and that’s the Syrians.

As for that website. Again I did a brief scan and nothing!!! Listen I don’t need you to show me food exports (if there is even any of that) of things like dates or what not. No we are talking about marketable products for the world market that other nations will buy (like in the science, medicine, technology, computing, or other high tech fields or any other quality fields). I can’t remember where the link is, but a recent while ago a UN or even an Arab agency (I cant remember which one it was) put the Arab nations at the lowest (even lower then Africa) in the world in terms of actuall productivity.

Lastly as for canada’s favourite company ROOT’S, who cares where it gets its material from that doesn’t negate what I am saying.

Secondly, on an off topic thing, why do Canadians love roots which I termed gap with just the roots label on it. I mean every Canadian traveling has a roots hat or a roots shirt and with his little Canadian flag on his backpack…am I right??? ;)


Shalom, eh? ;) :D

[One?]

Anyways the bottom line is again “whether its 90 or less or whether its 40,000 troops or less, the bottom line is that Syria is in Lebanon and has troops there. If Lebanon were a sovereign and independent country, it wouldn’t have a single Syrian soldier there. It is not and it is living in a Syrian controlled occupation”

So,

US soldeirs in Germany are occupiers.
US soldeirs in Korea are occupiers.
US soldeirs in Saudi Arabia are occupiers
US soldeirs in Qatar are occupiers
US soldeirs in Kuwait are occupiers
US soldeirs all over europe an asia are occupiers


Salam :)

Oh and by the way arabs export more fruits than dates. Oh we also export water to Israel. But it seems that you do not want to search or your trying to show that arabs have nothing to export. Well search hard enough and you shall find....

[IDFM203]

“Anyways the bottom line is again “whether its 90 or less or whether its 40,000 troops or less, the bottom line is that Syria is in Lebanon and has troops there. If Lebanon were a sovereign and independent country, it wouldn’t have a single Syrian soldier there. It is not and it is living in a Syrian controlled occupation”

So,

US soldeirs in Germany are occupiers.
US soldeirs in Korea are occupiers.
US soldeirs in Saudi Arabia are occupiers
US soldeirs in Qatar are occupiers
US soldeirs in Kuwait are occupiers
US soldeirs all over europe an asia are occupiers.... Nice try ;) but the U.S. there helped those countries and not hurt its citizens like the Syrians have done to a lot of the Lebanese citizens .

Again the U.S. didn’t do this http://www.2la.org/lebanon/ee/terrorlb.htm against Lebanese citizens and civilians. (Warning some graphic images!!) to the countries it was in to help as the Syrians have done to a lot of Lebanese citizens
Or control and manipulate their elections like what the Syrians did in Lebanon. http://cp.yahoo.net/search/cache?p=lebanon+elections&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&url=0uYs3HKXB6AJ:www.meib.org/articles/0008_l1.htm

Lastly the U.S. never acted brutal and killed off any opposition to U.S. presence as the Syrians have done to Lebanese opposition to its presence. I mean in south Korea there have been rallies with over a hundred thousand people that have called for the U.S. to leave and the U.S. didn’t stop those rallies as the Syrians would do to any Lebanese that would call for the Syrians to leave. ( If a person would be brave to do that, he most probably would be dragged out and either killed or taken to jail in Syria and tortured where limbs would be cut off and that would be the last you heard of him, simply for speaking out against the Syrian occupation).

I mean it’s a fact that opposition to Syria, is not tolerated there!!

In fact to even compare the positive U.S occupations of Europe after ww2 and the U.S. presence in south Korea for the benefit of all south Korean and the U.S. presence in those Arab nations which are mutually beneficial to both, to the Syrian occupation and what it has done to a lot of the Lebanese is beyond laughable, and its flat out a non comparison!!!!

your trying to show that arabs have nothing to export. .... first off all I do believe that they have nothing marketable to export. But I did not bring that up in the beginning to show that. If you recall I brought that up in a existing conversation as a side point in that the reality of the Arab world is that they have not produced a single marketable product for the world market and yet somehow insinuate blame on Israel for most of their problems. And then you responded to show me links of where they have and yet I have still failed to see any even in those links that you provided me. In truth of course I believe what I said, but I am open to stand corrected and I am honestly curious as to what they have produced.

But I guess that’s not going to happen……oh well :roll:


Well search hard enough and you shall find.... well I did but I still couldn’t find anything so I was hoping that you as an Arab could make it easier, but I guess not or you simply couldn’t find anything as well……oh well :roll:

P.S. I was right about Canadians and roots, eh?? ;)

Shalom :D

[jdbjdb]

US soldeirs in Germany are occupiers.
US soldeirs in Korea are occupiers.
US soldeirs in Saudi Arabia are occupiers
US soldeirs in Qatar are occupiers
US soldeirs in Kuwait are occupiers
US soldeirs all over europe an asia are occupiers
Not occupiers in that sense, we are not there to steal their land, the troops in Europe were there to help portect and help keep The Soviets contianed, why are we still there? depends who you ask, what kind of answers you want. The United States military brings alot of money and jobs to Europe and Asia.

[One?]

Ya man the Canadian flag is on every ROOTs backpack in the world. Just like you represent with the Israeli flag....



I mean it’s a fact that opposition to Syria, is not tolerated there!!

right thats why they protest every now and then, and all tv shows are about the syrians. Well mostly the shows that are like "Saturday night live".

This conversation is getting repetitive. Lets find a new topic or hack someone else's thread.

[jdbjdb]

How would Syria react if Lebanon started to insist that Syria stop meldling in Leanese affairs?

[IDFM203]

Ya man the Canadian flag is on every ROOTs backpack in the world. Just like you represent with the Israeli flag.... hey I didn’t mean that in any hostile way, no I just found through experience that Canadians more then any other traveler, has their roots gear on and some little Canadian flag on their backpacks. I mean its like that is almost like standard equipment for every Canadian traveler more so then any (or if some of them even do anything like that) other countries travelers (in terms of what their “standard equipment”)

Oh and most Israelis don’t travel with Israeli flags and thats not out of a lack of pride but out of concern and fea………..well I don’t want to start the whole anti Semitic debate here……you know what I am saying though.


I mean it’s a fact that opposition to Syria, is not tolerated there!!

This conversation is getting repetitive. Lets find a new topic or hack someone else's thread. your right it is. Syria is occupying Lebanon and a lot don’t like it and you say its tolerated or accepted by most or alot there. Nuff said!!.

As for a new or friendlier topic, soooooooo how’s the women in Lebanon??? ;) :P ;)

shalom :D

[One?]

As for a new or friendlier topic, soooooooo how’s the women in Lebanon???

woot

I think you know better...

[StarvingStudent47]

As for a new or friendlier topic, soooooooo how’s the women in Lebanon???

woot

I think you know better...

Shakira is F---ING HOT, and she's only half Lebanese. Nuff said.