School of Americas Protesters get Earful

[budanski]

Big Crowd at Military School Protest Gets Earful of Patriotic Music From Army (http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA58CLKCND.html)

COLUMBUS, Ga. (AP) - Demonstrators gathered outside Fort Benning to protest a military school were hit with a sonic barrage Saturday: patriotic music Army officials had blaring from the main gate. A crowd estimated by Columbus police at 8,000 gathered to protest the school once known as the School of the Americas, which they blame for Latin American human rights abuses. It appeared to be the largest first-day gathering in the 14-year history of the protest.

The Army's loudspeakers, playing "The Army Song" and "God Bless the U.S.A.," were 50 yards away from where protesters were speaking to the crowd.

Leaders of School of Americas Watch, which has protested at Fort Benning every year since the early 1990s, said they planned to sue over the noise tactic and accused the Army of a "psychological operation."

"There's a lot of ill will being caused that's not necessary," said the Rev. Ray Bourgeois, SOA Watch founder. "The closer we get to closing that school down, the meaner they get."

"We figure if they can play their music, we can play ours," post spokesman Rich McDowell said. The Army said the music came from a tape made by the wife of a Fort Benning soldier currently serving in Iraq.

School of the Americas Watch holds the demonstrations every November to mark the killings of six Jesuit priests, their housekeeper and her daughter in El Salvador on Nov. 19, 1989.

Some of the killers had attended the school, which moved to Fort Benning from Panama in 1984 and is now under the jurisdiction of the Defense Department as the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation.

On Saturday, four protesters were stopped by the post's security for attempting to enter the fort's Highway 27 entrance. They were arrested for trespassing and taken by U.S. Marshals to the Muscogee County Jail, McDowell said.

McDowell added that officials at the post in west-central Georgia hope organizers of the two-day protest manage crowd control as in past years. Nearly 200 people were arrested in Miami in past week during protests against negotiations for the Free Trade Area of the Americas.

"We're on our side, just keeping an eye on them," McDowell said. "We would like to see this get over with as peacefully as possible. We don't have any reason to think it won't."

About 7,000 attended last year's protest, including 84 who were arrested for trespassing on military property.

McDowell said the post would not play music during Sunday's religious-themed services, including protesters' solemn procession to the post gate.


said they planned to sue over the noise tactic and accused the Army of a "psychological operation.
Don't you just love the hypocrisy?

[JF45]

The Army's loudspeakers, playing "The Army Song" and "God Bless the U.S.A.," were 50 yards away from where protesters were speaking to the crowd.

Leaders of School of Americas Watch, which has protested at Fort Benning every year since the early 1990s, said they planned to sue over the noise tactic and accused the Army of a "psychological operation."
What, they prefer rap?

[martinexsquaddie]

consider some of the HEROS who graduated from that school.
I'd be wary of supporting that place but hey anyone killed by US supported forces must be a communist terrorist. Because the US never make mistakes :roll:

[Roger Rabbit]

Anyone seen El Salvador? The film that is.

[The Walrus]

The school of Americas is responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses in the latter half of the 20th century, those who trained there used their training to effectively wage war on their own people in order to sustain their brutal dictatorships, anyone who opposed the dictatorships was branded a communist/terrorist and subsequently detained, tortured and in many cases killed.
It is not known exactly how many have died because of those sponsored by the SOA but it is in the hundreds of thousands region, and new reports of abuses still continue to surface, state sponsored terrorism is the best way to describe the what the SOA has done.
Those people have every right to protest, many probably have known people who have 'disappeared', and the sad fact is that many of the perpetrators of these crimes will not face justice.
The SOA is probably one of the best example to give if you want to understand why 'anti-americans' feel the way they do.
I personally don't see America as evil, but hypocritical is definetaly one word that comes to mind when thinking about things like the SOA.

[budanski]

You suppose we should close Harvard because killers like Ted Kaczynski and Ted Kennedy had once attended? What kind of logic is that?

[Deuterium]

The school of Americas is responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses in the latter half of the 20th century, those who trained there used their training to effectively wage war on their own people in order to sustain their brutal dictatorships, anyone who opposed the dictatorships was branded a communist/terrorist and subsequently detained, tortured and in many cases killed.
It is not known exactly how many have died because of those sponsored by the SOA but it is in the hundreds of thousands region, and new reports of abuses still continue to surface, state sponsored terrorism is the best way to describe the what the SOA has done.
Those people have every right to protest, many probably have known people who have 'disappeared', and the sad fact is that many of the perpetrators of these crimes will not face justice.
The SOA is probably one of the best example to give if you want to understand why 'anti-americans' feel the way they do.
I personally don't see America as evil, but hypocritical is definetaly one word that comes to mind when thinking about things like the SOA.

Once again the TRUE facts are that people who attended SOA have committed atrocities. However the leap from attendance to cause in effect are tremendous and illogical. Show me were in the POI(period of instruction) that the students are taught, torture, rape, abuse. If this is your line of reasoning you might as well be lining up at the campus of Cambridge to protest all the "guardians" of humanity that have graduated from that school.

[Deuterium]

Those people have every right to protest,

And those that are being protested have no rights?

[duck]

Yep, the Harvard CQB class where they teach knife fighting techniques and the Cambridge small-unit patrolling class spring to mind.

[SPC Benfield]

if you're going to say they that, then why dont people protest the flight schools where the terrorist of 9/11 learned how to fly at?

most protesters barely even think about whats right and wrong.. all they think about is: are people dieing? and do i like these people, or not?

[fred_engles]

Once again the TRUE facts are that people who attended SOA have committed atrocities. However the leap from attendance to cause in effect are tremendous and illogical. Show me were in the POI(period of instruction) that the students are taught, torture, rape, abuse. If this is your line of reasoning you might as well be lining up at the campus of Cambridge to protest all the "guardians" of humanity that have graduated from that school.The problem with the SOA isn't that it actually taught rape and murder (it almost certainly didn't). What is the problem was that it was giving training to people from very questionable backgrounds and groups, many of whome had already been linked to human rights abuses or were working for known human rights abusers. Thus, when school graduates did commit abuses, they were able to keep a stronger hold on power, to take power, or to squash dissent more effectively, thanks in part to their SOA training.

[Deuterium]

Once again the TRUE facts are that people who attended SOA have committed atrocities. However the leap from attendance to cause in effect are tremendous and illogical. Show me were in the POI(period of instruction) that the students are taught, torture, rape, abuse. If this is your line of reasoning you might as well be lining up at the campus of Cambridge to protest all the "guardians" of humanity that have graduated from that school.The problem with the SOA isn't that it actually taught rape and murder (it almost certainly didn't). What is the problem was that it was giving training to people from very questionable backgrounds and groups, many of whome had already been linked to human rights abuses or were working for known human rights abusers. Thus, when school graduates did commit abuses, they were able to keep a stronger hold on power, to take power, or to squash dissent more effectively, thanks in part to their SOA training.

As I said before tell me what the POI was that enabled these people to commit these attrocities. Land Navigation, Patrolling, OP orders, Oh yeah I can see the connections....... THese guys also went to US Universities who taught them English 101 Comp and Speech 101 so let's protest these colleges. They used language and speech to incite the masses.

[fred_engles]

As I said before tell me what the POI was that enabled these people to commit these attrocities. Land Navigation, Patrolling, OP orders, Oh yeah I can see the connections....... THese guys also went to US Universities who taught them English 101 Comp and Speech 101 so let's protest these colleges. They used language and speech to incite the masses.If that was all they were learning, it would be an entirely different matter. However, SOA didn't stop there.

Here's a report (http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1997_rpt/soarpt.htm) on the matter from the Federation of American Scientists (http://www.fas.org/).

[Deuterium]

As I said before tell me what the POI was that enabled these people to commit these attrocities. Land Navigation, Patrolling, OP orders, Oh yeah I can see the connections....... THese guys also went to US Universities who taught them English 101 Comp and Speech 101 so let's protest these colleges. They used language and speech to incite the masses.If that was all they were learning, it would be an entirely different matter. However, SOA didn't stop there.

Here's a report (http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1997_rpt/soarpt.htm) on the matter from the Federation of American Scientists (http://www.fas.org/).

I'm glad you were and instructor their Fred, what years? Who was the Senior Instructor? Who teaches there? I will say this Fred, if you believe that article then I see where you are coming from. I urge you to talk with graduates or past instructors.

[fred_engles]

Huh? Are you saying I claimed to be an instructor there?

[Edit, since Deuterium edited his post]
Yes, I do believe the report. I certainly have no reason not to, since the FAS is a very reputable organization; and congress evidently was troubled enough by the allegations that SOA had to change its name after congress cut off their funding.

[Deuterium]

Nope never there. I did my time at SWC.

[The Walrus]

The SOA taught all the mechanisms repress a population under control, torture was taught as an integral part of suspect interrogation (the schools themselves were at times used as torture facilities), it was basically a school for the Gestapo, the SOA (along with the CIA) helped bring into power a generation of south American Saddam Husseins.
The SOA originated from the USA's fear of communism spreading to South America, it's aim was to prevent the spread of communism using any means possible, letting the means to justify the end, and ultimetaly the most surefire means of preventing Communism was helping fascist dictatorships to repress their people with an iron fist.

[StarvingStudent47]

The SOA is probably one of the best example to give if you want to understand why 'anti-americans' feel the way they do.
I personally don't see America as evil, but hypocritical is definetaly one word that comes to mind when thinking about things like the SOA.

Do you really think that Osama and his cave-dwelling buddies give a flying f--- about villagers in Latin America?

I'm not defending certain infamous actions in Latin America. I'm just contesting that there is any link between those events and the current adversaries the USA faces in the world.

[martinexsquaddie]

I think the walrus was talking about the posters on here who don't tow the party line. Also talking about liberal commie protestors who'd if they had the misfortune to run into some of the graduates of the school of americas
would have ended up in an unmarked grave.
IF the school of americas was the "cure For Communism"
mines a large vodka and a cigar comrade

[WARPIG]

Wholly crap. Do any of you think that this school is teaching this stuff today?
Let's all play stupid and pretend that the article above is true and that the SOA did teach Murder and Terror 101 back in the Reagan years. Where is the school now? This is all a "black and white" arguement. The truth is probably less definate than that. Bottom line is that the protestors are barking up the wrong tree. Maybe for lack of a better target but the school at Benning is not this big evil institute that they are protesting. That school is gone and the actions of the past years is just a big temper tantrum that has turned more and more fashionable over the years.
How is this for a PSYOP.. rename the school and call it disbandoned.

[Deuterium]

The SOA taught all the mechanisms repress a population under control, torture was taught as an integral part of suspect interrogation (the schools themselves were at times used as torture facilities), it was basically a school for the Gestapo, the SOA (along with the CIA) helped bring into power a generation of south American Saddam Husseins.
The SOA originated from the USA's fear of communism spreading to South America, it's aim was to prevent the spread of communism using any means possible, letting the means to justify the end, and ultimetaly the most surefire means of preventing Communism was helping fascist dictatorships to repress their people with an iron fist.

Sorry pal, you don't have a clue....... End of story.

[The Walrus]

Wholly crap. Do any of you think that this school is teaching this stuff today?
Let's all play stupid and pretend that the article above is true and that the SOA did teach Murder and Terror 101 back in the Reagan years. Where is the school now? This is all a "black and white" arguement. The truth is probably less definate than that. Bottom line is that the protestors are barking up the wrong tree. Maybe for lack of a better target but the school at Benning is not this big evil institute that they are protesting. That school is gone and the actions of the past years is just a big temper tantrum that has turned more and more fashionable over the years.
How is this for a PSYOP.. rename the school and call it disbandoned.

The school does still exist, but it tries to distance itself from the past, hence the renaming of it as the 'Western Hemisphere Institute for Security
Cooperation'. Since the revelations in the 90's and the undoings of the CIA it has changed it's tact and now human rights are compulsory learning there, here's an unbiased site which gives the gist of it's current runnings:
http://www.ciponline.org/facts/soa.htm
I think the protestors are more concerned with it's past being acknowledged and having some kind of official recognition for the suffering they endured because of the SOA.
I'm not saying the USA set up the SOA because it was evil, but rather that it was so caught up in the communist paranoia that it was the only thing that mattered, much like in the 80's with supporting Saddam as a 'bulwark' against Islamic extremism.

[WARPIG]

Point taken. Still protesting the school is moronic. There are other entities that could, and should be held responsible of any percieved wrong doing.
Just food for thought. What kind of damage to US an to those named countries would result if the protestors won full disclosure? Do you think that the US simply wants to sweep it under the rug out of shame or maybe there is more to lose by coming out with the details?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the protestors aren't thinking of those little details.

[Deuterium]

I think the protestors are more concerned with it's past being acknowledged and having some kind of official recognition for the suffering they endured because of the SOA.
I'm not saying the USA set up the SOA because it was evil, but rather that it was so caught up in the communist paranoia that it was the only thing that mattered, much like in the 80's with supporting Saddam as a 'bulwark' against Islamic extremism.

Okay you have a clue. Why couldn't you have said this up-front.

[WARPIG]

That would have killed the thread.
Rules of Forum:no flame=no fun
How many threads died when you brought things into perspective Deut?