Conscription in Europe

[Roger Rabbit]

Could anybody give a listing of the Countries in Europe that still have conscription and the number of years they have to serve?

I know Britain is 100% volunteers.

[fantassin]

France, Belgium and Luxembourg are 100% volunteers. Germany is still conscript; I believe Spain and Italy are in transition.

[Dalleer]

Finland has conscription, and depending on your training you'll have to serve 6, 8, or 12 months in the service.

Who knows, maybe even some people have to be there over 12 months, but not too much over 12 at least.

[Herrmannek]

Poland, number of volunteers is groving because of fashion and lack of work.
Conscription takes 9 months from life.

[Guttorm]

Norway also uses conscripts... And the service is 12 months...
But theres talk about starting a volunteer military.

[Roger Rabbit]

You mean Norway has no Military at the moment that you can volunteer to join? How do you get Officers and NCOs?

[perdurabo]

Poland, number of volunteers is groving because of fashion and lack of work.
Conscription takes 9 months from life.
but it's changing for 100% profesional army
me as student i'm going to army for 6weeks prabably on this summer wacation :) (i'm happy with that:D)

[Sapper]

Here's some info about conscription.
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eecco/servicetimes.html

[Dalleer]

Oh yeah, so it was actually "6,9 or 12 months" instead of 6,8, or 12 months back here.

[Kriz]

I'm glad we don't have it anymore here in Belgium, I wouldn't wanna waste a year orso with that crap.

[phony doctors. hello!]

Most of the Balkan States still have conscription as well.

Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) -12 months

Albania- not sure about the term of service

Macedonia- 10, 12 or 15 months.

Bos-
Bosnian Federation- 12 months
Republika Srpska (Bosnian Serbs)- 9 months

Croatia- 6 months

http://www.child-soldiers.org/

[Haiw]

no conscription here..only die-hard professionals ;)

[Roger Rabbit]

What exactly is the point of conscription that takes people for less than 1 year?

[fantassin]

It's to give basic training in case of a massive recall of the reserves.

[Roger Rabbit]

So do these people who are conscripted remain in the reserves after serving their time?

[Loco]

In Spain military are full professional since about 2 years ago, after a period of transition with conscripts and professional soldiers together. Conscripts served in the last times 9 months, and 15 years ago 12 months.

[wholagun]

Poland, number of volunteers is groving because of fashion and lack of work.
Conscription takes 9 months from life.

Are they planning on ending conscription and making it all professional? What do you mean fashionable? Dumb guys go in to get uniform and act all tough and cool?

Good to know that number of volunteers is growing, now if we could only equip all of them with the proper gear.

[wholagun]

We're complaing about 9 months to a year.

In North Korea I heard its 12 years.

[Dalleer]

Back here in Finland we are all sure that Russia is going to attack sometimes in the near future (Yes, really they are!! look, they're coming right now!") so a large reserve is needed for years and years and years...

Hey, its a great system.

But, I wouldn't really now how would everything work here if the defence forces went volunteer (or half volunteer) only. Some people back here say that "you need to go to the army in order to become a man!" and there's this funny slogan for the Finnish defence forces that gets around from time to time, it goes like this:

"In here (means the army) we will make you a man!"

So perhaps conscription is thought to be a weird "ritual to become a man " back here, since a very small group of people are willing to let a volunteer army system take seed in Finland.

Surely our defence forces would at least shrink in size but the equipment might get better, I suppose.

[Marxist203]

What exactly is the point of conscription that takes people for less than 1 year?

If its less than a year you have a population who is trained and ready for combat at a moments notice. You can, in the case of war, call up people who have already served and re-train them in less time than it would to do so from scratch.

also, Im sure that it would help build a better sense of national identity and a sense of duty in the hearts of young people. It would build character really.

[PsihoKekec]

Here's some info about conscription.
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eecco/servicetimes.html

Info on this site is a bit outdated, Slovenia went to volunteer army this year, no more conscripts.

[aeternum]

So do these people who are conscripted remain in the reserves after serving their time?

In Germany yes.

Enlisted Soldiers until they are 45 years old and Officers until 60 i think. Of course this is no active reserve status. Its just in case of war.

[Kingpin]

Hehe. Russia - 24 full months. No more no less.
Officers - at least 3 years.

Only exception are people with magister or bachelor degree or higher - 12 months.

Army in transitition. Some units already consits of volunteers. Such as 201st Division in Tadjikistan - 100% volunteers.

[Guttorm]

You mean Norway has no Military at the moment that you can volunteer to join? How do you get Officers and NCOs?

No, you have military acadamys where you apply for a try out, they let you ty out, if you make it, they train you for officer and NCO training

Nco 1 year, officer 3-4 years. Thats navy thuogh... I wouldn't know about the army and the airforce...

[Roger Rabbit]

Presumably an NCO and Officer can serve for longer than that though?

[M203]

Sweden has a conscript army . Now being reformed because its design an form was to fight the threat from the east. The entire defense was trained that way (and conscripts makes it possible for a small country to have alot of soldier in case of war.) After i did my service I was convinced that communism was the most dangerous thing in the world and that the russkies would come any day. As our instructors said " a russian is alway a russian" :lol:
Now it is being redesigned and nowadays not as many has to do their service which is sad because it is definetely good for national identity and would be great for the videogame generation, to get out and move around a bit!
Time ranges from 8 months to 18 months.

Have a good one

[Roger Rabbit]

I was always under the assumption that conscription was for at least 2 years(based on what i knew from National Service in the UK in the 50's and America during Vietnam). However 6 months really isn't that much and may benefit the current generations. I mean after you leave school or before going to uni then 6 months really isn't that long, plus you will earn money and it could be a good way to see whether a career in the army was an option for that individual. Saying that the cons probably outweigh the pros. Nobody likes to be forced into doing something.

[martinexsquaddie]

linus torvalds the creator of Linux said of National service at least it gave every man in finland something to talk about I.E. how crap it was in the army :lol:

[Kampfhamster]

Switzerland still has conscription

Soldiers are serving 260 days untill 28

NCO and officers up to 550 days until 30 (not sure)

Austria has conscription too

[Sapper]

Here's some info about conscription.
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eecco/servicetimes.html

Info on this site is a bit outdated, Slovenia went to volunteer army this year, no more conscripts.

Good to know. I just find it in Google. I didn't had any idea was the info in that website updated or uotdated.

[Guttorm]

Presumably an NCO and Officer can serve for longer than that though?
YEs they can... And people that are drafted can stay longer if they want to. And then work as proffesional soldiers

[Roger Rabbit]

So what are people who've been conscripted's general opinion of their time in?

[Loco]

So what are people who've been conscripted's general opinion of their time in?
I´ve mixed feelings of that period. I think I´ve lost a year of my life, not being me against military service. We were conscripted and military didn´t respect us in almost anyway, they wasted our time because it was free in spite of using it efficiently, and this is an enormous sin: the time of others is a holy thing. They trained us poorly and this did few for spanish society having a high opinion about our military forces, which I wouldn´t say is good. It´s sad saying this things, but I´m sincere. Now I detect opinions are changing in society towards a high respect about our military, but very slowly. Since spanish military switched to professional soldiers, there are many problems for filing units with the men they need. I´ve read there are only about 60.000 men in the army, when we need 80.000. In the time I served, we were about 120.000. Really, they didn´t make a man of me or my fellows, I think we were men, although young, just before entering in the army for our year of service there. I finished my year and I wasn´t a better person or worst person, only 1 year older. I must say I had some experiences I´ve never had in civil life, but it doesn´t justify 12 months of your life, I think 3 or 4 months were enough.
Today, if I were 18 years old again, I think I´d think seriously joining the army as a professional soldier, or after finishing my career at university becoming official, becauses many things changed in the army, and that´s a thing I would never had considerered a decade ago.

[Guttorm]

So what are people who've been conscripted's general opinion of their time in?

It raly depends on what service you're given... If you serve for a year as a office clerk, you prolly didn't like it...
If you served for a year in a recon platoon, you prolly want more... :)

I served as an operational on a navy ship. I stayed on for two more years...

[Marxist203]

What exactly is the point of conscription that takes people for less than 1 year?

If its less than a year you have a population who is trained and ready for combat at a moments notice. You can, in the case of war, call up people who have already served and re-train them in less time than it would to do so from scratch.

also, Im sure that it would help build a better sense of national identity and a sense of duty in the hearts of young people. It would build character really.

I change my original post...I watched this show on the history channel called Soldat, it is a look into the Russian army. The conscript soldiers were some of the most ill disciplined cry babies I have ever seen! one soldier by the name of Sasha said "The major behaves like this is the Soviet Army...when its not!"

Now he made this comment when their Major disciplined someone for assault. Hazing is a huge tradition in the Russian Army, but the way they do it is ridiculous...I dont see how people can trust one an other in the Russian Armed forces they way they treat each other.

So in short...Conscription is bad and hazing is ridiculous.

[Herrmannek]

Poland, number of volunteers is groving because of fashion and lack of work.
Conscription takes 9 months from life.

Are they planning on ending conscription and making it all professional?

Yes we want to have fully proffesional army.


What do you mean fashionable? Dumb guys go in to get uniform and act all tough and cool?

Employers like to have guys who wouldn't be taken in half of the done job to army so they employ guys with fullfiled army duties. There is no perspectives for guys after occupation schools or liceums(middle shools end at 19) so they choose to have few free months of military sponsored wacations, and most important it fits macho style of life :).

Good to know that number of volunteers is growing, now if we could only equip all of them with the proper gear.
Those "volounteers" are mainly still conscripted :) , but now is great tendency to not avoid army because it profits in many ways :).
Yup

[tony6]

Yeah-Polish Army anno domini 2003 is totally different than 10 years ago.
Today 50% of our Army are proffesional soldiers (special forces are already 100% pro of course).
According to the plan Until the end of 2008 31 units will be fully proffesional (first to go are rapid reaction units and navy ships crews).
Rapid reaction forces like 6th Air Assault Brigade and 25th Air Cavalry Brigade-some battalions are 60-65% proffesional now.
Also Leo2 tank crews are pro (10th Mechanized Brigade)

[martinexsquaddie]

I'm not sure I could guess the majority of people I know if told your spending a year in a recon platoon would not enjoyit rofl

[Roger Rabbit]

Spending a year as cook might be fun, imagine all the respect and new friends you would make each time you cook then a lovely meal. :fork:

[digrar]

One of the best days I had in the Army was when I was in East Timor and the boss told me and a mate of mine that he was kicking us out of signals platoon, sending me back into recon and my mate back into snipers. He even called the padre in to counsel us. The padre took one look at us and decided that we were the happiest diggers he had seen all week and were not in any need of counselling. woot

[Roger Rabbit]

What did you to do to get kicked out?

I was once told that if you want to get out of something you don;t like then make sure you do it badly. At a place i worked i was told to make coffee, i made it so strong you could have stripped paint with it. They didn't ask again woot

[fantassin]

The Israeli army is mostly made up of (long service) conscripts; and it's not exactly a "bad" army...

Properly motivated conscripts work fine; in Mogadisho in June 1993, a company of conscripted (but volunteers for overseas and parachute duties) French paratroopers of the 9 RCP part of the ONUSOM fought during a whole afternoon to allow a surrounded Morrocan company to be extracted.

They took several WIAs in the process but held on fine. One of the company's marksman killed four enemies while he'd been in the army for less than a year. A French Marine was also KIA during that battle and several vehicles hit with RPGs and small arms fire.

[IDFM203]

The Israeli army is mostly made up of (long service) conscripts; and it's not exactly a "bad" army... .yes but you cant compare conscription of Israel to anyone else. The fact is that Israel spends something around like 25 percent of its overall budget on the idf and that is much more in terms of percentages then any one else.

I mean even the U.S. with its biggest spending army in the world only spends like 3 or 4 percent of its overall budget on it.

I love the idf and I can go on and on about it, but I would never use it as an example for conscription for other armies for they don’t have the came harsh situations that Israel faces which forces it to have a top quality conscription force.

Just a side note about Israeli conscription that a lot of people don’t understand. While everyone from the population makes it into the army, most of them do not make it into combat roles or top units. There is a lot of initial testing and weeding out and evaluating on each individual to where only (--) percent or something like that is made up of combat units (infantry, tanks, artillery, pilots, etc…) the rest is support units and support roles. I know this is hard to explain, but in essence the combat units are a kind of professional army unot itself and in a lot of cases volunteers (for a lot of Israelis volunteer into these combat units) so its not like the idf combat units are just made up of anyone in Israeli society or that any one can make it for that’s not the case.

Shalom :D

[Roger Rabbit]

So can you actually be conscripted into a combat unit or do they only take volunteers? For example say they needed 400 people for a combat unit and they could pick from say 1000 of whom 500 volunteer for combat service but 100 of that 500 werent quite as good as 100 of the reminaing 500 who did not volunteer. Would they then just take 400 of the volunteers? Dunno if i made that very clear.

[IDFM203]

So can you actually be conscripted into a combat unit or do they only take volunteers? For example say they needed 400 people for a combat unit and they could pick from say 1000 of whom 500 volunteer for combat service but 100 of that 500 werent quite as good as 100 of the reminaing 500 who did not volunteer. Would they then just take 400 of the volunteers? Dunno if i made that very clear. ok to clarify. I didn’t say all were volunteers. I don’t want to get into a numbers game (for that’s a OPSEC violation) but for each draft period, the idf has extensive testing on everyone and it then chooses around the top (--) percent of that draft to go into combat units. So in essence, after extensive testing only around the top (--) percent of the population that served in the idf are in combat units or roles. Now a lot of people ask to get into combat units and there are certain units and brigades that have too much volunteers then the spaces that it needs so they are sent to other units or to non combat units or roles. (sent to other units and roles depending on the individuals combat qualifications or not)

Now in these times, idf combat units especially infantry ones have more people wanting to go into them then there are spaces for or that are actually qualified for. So the ones that are combat qualified but couldn’t get into their chosen combat unit are sent to other combat units or roles or the ones that are not combat qualified go to support units and roles

Remember when I say volunteer, I mean they are first conscripted and then they ask where they want to go (yes you can request to go to a certain unit) but then there are testing and depending on the testing, will depend if you can go there or not.

In direct answer to your question, the ones that the idf deem more qualified are the ones that get in even if they are from the pool that did not volunteer. With that said though, the idf does pay special attention to ones that volunteered. But of course that attention is only at the ones that are combat qualified for if the idf has to choose between a volunteer whose not combat qualified vs. a solider that is not a volunteer to these combat units but is combat qualified, well the one that is combat qualified is chosen by the idf. And sent to combat units.

Shalom :D

[kinghk]

Could anybody give a listing of the Countries in Europe that still have conscription and the number of years they have to serve?

I know Britain is 100% volunteers.

All of the Scandinavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark) have conscription.
Theoretically. Less than 50% of the males at the age of 18/19 actually finishes a full military service.

Here in Norway, 50% of the 18/19 year old males will never be drafted, of those who actually starts a military "career", only 2/3 will finish it. Back in the days of the cold war, there were much harder to get away. Serving in the military was something you have to do to become a man and to do a nathional duty, and to do an alternative civil-service (for I.E. pasifists) there was an obligatory interegation with the police. If you deny both militaryservice and civilservice you will still put in jail for some weeks. Practically, we dont have a conscript military anymore, if you dont wanna serve, it's not hard at all to get away.

The real point of serving in the army is to have something to discuss with other males for the next 60 years.

[lekomin]

I read somewhere (JDW?) that the time you have to spend in the military was lowered in North Korea from 20 years to 15 years for men and from 15 to 10 for women. woot woot woot
Well, that is a liberal country dont you think?

[kinghk]

yes but you cant compare conscription of Israel to anyone else.


Actually, you can compare Israel to North Korea :)



The fact is that Israel spends something around like 25 percent of its overall budget on the idf and that is much more in terms of percentages then any one else.


Nope it isn't. North Korea spends more money then you on the military then Israel.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html#Military

[IDFM203]

yes but you cant compare conscription of Israel to anyone else.


Actually, you can compare Israel to North Korea :)



The fact is that Israel spends something around like 25 percent of its overall budget on the idf and that is much more in terms of percentages then any one else.


Nope it isn't. North Korea spends more money then you on the military then Israel.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html#Militaryok I stand corrected with north Korea ;) ..............to clarify, we have one of the highest percentages for a western country based on our overall GDP that we spend on the military.

Actually it’s less then 25 percent (that was from 1948 up until the 80’s or early 90’s).

Israel’s economy is at 110 or 120 billion a year and it spends somewhere between 9 and 15 billion a year on defence (the cia factbook says around 9 billion but I have seen other reports where it puts it at 15). So its under 20 percent now but it is still pretty high In reletive terms to other western nations. I mean the U.S. spends only 3 or 4 percent of its overall GDP on the military.


Oh but all this is on spending, there is absolutely no comparison to Israel’s first rate arms industry and military then to the North Koreans (who do have a somehwhat good military and a somewhat good industry but not as good as Israel’s!!)

Shalom :D

[Chris O`Crooh]

The fact is that Israel spends something around like 25 percent of its overall budget on the idf and that is much more in terms of percentages then any one else.

Excluding US aid, aren`t you? Some extra stuff 4 free?

[IDFM203]

The fact is that Israel spends something around like 25 percent of its overall budget on the idf and that is much more in terms of percentages then any one else.

Excluding US aid, aren`t you? Some extra stuff 4 free?first of all I corrected my self before, for that was a older stat. its less then 25 percent now.

Secondly Israel spends anywhere from 9 to 15 billion a year on defence and gets 3 billion a year from the U.S.

While that is most certainly appreciated, Israel is still spending more then triple that from what it gets from the U.S. and that is still more in percentage terms to its overall GDP then a lot of other countries.

Now for free, excluding U.S aid (which I talked about above), we got two submarines from Germany (the third one I belive Israel paid for in full). thats all I know about. But hey we are not the only ones getting some stuff for free from germany, you in Poland got your migs from the Germans for free and you got your F16's from the U.S., well your not paying for them now and perhaps you wont ev..... ;) ......etc. . ;)

Anyways way off topic.

This thread is about conscription and all I am saying is that Israel has a awesome military and does wonders with its conscription BUT it should not be a example for other nations to follow unless they have the type of threat that Israel is facing and then are willing to spend the percentages that Israel spends. Most nations simply don’t have that need!!

Shalom :D

[OldRecon]

You mean Norway has no Military at the moment that you can volunteer to join? How do you get Officers and NCOs?

The Norwegian armed forces special commando unit ("Forsvarets spesialkommand "FSK", similar to SAS in tasks and concept) and part of the Royal Norwegian Navy Marine jaeger commando (similar in tasks and concept to the Royal Marines SBS and SEALS) are manned by volunteer professionals.
The forces employed by Norway on peace-keeping or combat missions abroad are also full time volunteer professionals. Mostly organised and trained through the Telemark battallion.
Anyone that wants to apply for service abroad through the Telemark battalion must first do the compulsory basic conscrition military service at home for 12 months with a generaly good record, and besides have no serious criminal record in civilian life, before applying for service abroad.
Those that volunteer for service abroad through the Telemark battalion are bound by contract for a term of service of 3 years, with option for another 3 years of service after the initial 3 years, on condition of good conduct during the previous 3 year stint.
After 6 years of total service one is not allowed to continue serving with the unit, unless one have risen in rank through attending one of the junior command schools ("befalsskoler") and/or the War academy ("Krigsskolen"). Furthermore there is a general precondition in the Norwegian army for professional service past 30 years of age that to do so one must successfully have completed the War academy.
The curriculum of the War academy is spread over 2x2 years with service at other postings in between the first 2 undergrad. years and last 2 postgrad years (provided conduct and academic results during the first 2 years are high enough, if not a candidate will not be allowed to attend for the last 2 year postgrad course.).
Some bright candidates from the junior command schools are however permited to combine both the undergrad. and postgrad part of the War academy courses in a special term 3 year course instead.

As for the conscription part of the armed forces I think now the service period is limited to 12 months for all three services.
Though before it used to be 12 months in the army and somewhat longer in the Air force and Navy (15 months if I remember correctly).
The Air force and Navy conscripts being excempted from reservist service because of their initial longer basic training).

There is talk about either downgrading the conscript element of the armed forces or going for a full proffesional force. Though no decision has been made in clear about that by the politicians yet though.
That said the emphasis today lie on the "proffesionals", though one still can find some quite good elements among the conscript "home-army" units, like the border guards (along the border with Russia high up north), the cavalry recon battallion schools (one of these training units moreover supply personel to an LRRP unit with the Norwegian forces in the Balkans, and soldiers from the same school are also allowed to apply for the selection trials of the FSK after finishing their 12 month basic), infantry jaeger platoons (sniper/patrol/recon platoons), artillery jaeger (artillery forward observers/FAC) units, and the cavalry "storm troopers" (basicaly armoured infantry - Generaly considered as the best trained infantry in the "home-army", with more field training than the norm, better mobility, firepower, and a more aggressive spirit than the "ordinary" infantry).
As I haven't had any connection with the armed forces for quite a while now, some of the above may not be all that "spot on" however. p-)

[Thomsen]

Germany has 9 months.

Our ministry of defence said a few weeks ago, they would not try to hinder a volunteers army. And they also said it would be no problem for consripts to participate on actions in foreign countries, what was not allowed all the years ago.

I think they have recognized, that all our actions are too much for the volunteers in our army and they need more men.
Although women are allowed in the army since 2001, we have conscription only for young men up to the age of 23.

[mustamato]

As a swedish citizen, the mandatory army days took 10 months of my life. I learnt a lot of crap that I have no use for, or would have use for in the case of war. But then again, there are those things that i would not want to be without even in my civilian life today, all that basic stuff, how to survive in the forest, how to take care of myself, knowing a little more of my own limitations etc etc. and all that not so basic stuff like blowing up things with TNT and so forth, that can be used in a guerilla war or so.

Difficult to say if it was worth those 300 days of my life, but atleast it was a experience of the type that can´t be found in the civilian life, no matter how hard you try, you who have been there, done that propably know what i mean :)

[Jack Mehoff]

As a swedish citizen, the mandatory army days took 10 months of my life. I learnt a lot of crap that I have no use for, or would have use for in the case of war. But then again, there are those things that i would not want to be without even in my civilian life today, all that basic stuff, how to survive in the forest, how to take care of myself, knowing a little more of my own limitations etc etc. and all that not so basic stuff like blowing up things with TNT and so forth, that can be used in a guerilla war or so.

Difficult to say if it was worth those 300 days of my life, but atleast it was a experience of the type that can´t be found in the civilian life, no matter how hard you try, you who have been there, done that propably know what i mean :)

I think Boy Scout teach you all that minus the blowing up things

[mustamato]

I think Boy Scout teach you all that minus the blowing up things

"There have been 560 confirmed coalition deaths, 479 Americans, 53 Britons, four Bulgarians, one Dane, 17 Italians, two Poles, one Spaniard, two Thai and one Ukrainian, in the war as of December 31, 2003. The casualty list below reflects the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen and sailors whose families have been notified of their deaths. There also have been 2,696 Americans wounded in the war, according to the Pentagon. This list is updated regularly."

Yeah they do, and they are obviously quite good at it :)

Oh, if the average Iraqi freedom fighter only had the IQ and the competence that you have. And especially would have got the elite training that you have received in that great country of yours. Oh I think that those insurgents that in many cases are ex-soldiers with many years of experience would have kicked out the invaders already if they only would have the training you have. The only thing they did when they were in the army was to suck cock and lick their officers asses and stuff like that. There can in no way be a army outside USA that has any competence in anything, especially considered that there can not have been anything civilized before 1776. :roll:

Is your illusion cracking dear Jack? :P

[Jack Mehoff]

I know they included accidental related deaths within that 479 american casualties. We lost a lot of servicemen every year due to accidents all the time. How freaking nice the media only put accident related deaths in the news when it happen oversea and during war.

[Jack Mehoff]

I think Boy Scout teach you all that minus the blowing up things

"There have been 560 confirmed coalition deaths, 479 Americans, 53 Britons, four Bulgarians, one Dane, 17 Italians, two Poles, one Spaniard, two Thai and one Ukrainian, in the war as of December 31, 2003. The casualty list below reflects the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen and sailors whose families have been notified of their deaths. There also have been 2,696 Americans wounded in the war, according to the Pentagon. This list is updated regularly."

Yeah they do, and they are obviously quite good at it :)

Oh, if the average Iraqi freedom fighter only had the IQ and the competence that you have. And especially would have got the elite training that you have received in that great country of yours. Oh I think that those insurgents that in many cases are ex-soldiers with many years of experience would have kicked out the invaders already if they only would have the training you have. The only thing they did when they were in the army was to suck cock and lick their officers asses and stuff like that. There can in no way be a army outside USA that has any competence in anything, especially considered that there can not have been anything civilized before 1776. :roll:

Is your illusion cracking dear Jack? :P

Yeah, it's really hard to plant a landmine on the road or strap yourself with explosive and blow yourself up. :lol:

[mustamato]

Yeah, it's really hard to plant a landmine on the road or strap yourself with explosive and blow yourself up. :lol:

Yeah so why waste more time in the military than necessary (just as if there are not better ways to spend your short life) when that is obviously all that is needed to kill people of your type. Happy new year to you anyway. You might need it, maybe it will soon be you that is heading for Iraq, and have to face all those poorly trained boy scouts. Just stay of the roads, because planting landmines were probably the only thing they learned to do during their 2-3 years of military service. :)

[firwinn]

:roll:

[M203]

If you know anyone thats worked with swedish soldiers in the balkans or elsewhere just ask them what they think. Or even better ask Brigadier General Richard C. Nash or general Rose former co of the SAS what they think of the swedish soldiers.

have a good one

[Chris1]

British Army conscripts
well, one Regiment does :)
Google the Bermuda Regiment :)

[Vance]

Good ol-fashioned 100% home-grown American volunteers. :D

[Hydro]

British Army conscripts
well, one Regiment does :)
Google the Bermuda Regiment :)

Ah, the Bermuda Regiment...thanks to them the Uzi and the Ruger Mini-14 are official British Army weapons :)

[fantassin]

And so is the Steyr AUG thanks to the Falklands Defence Force...