F117- Nighthawk question

[Airborneranger4israel]

is the F117 Nighthawk capable of carrying out attacks on other aircraft , such as the one in tonights episode of 24?

I believe it is not, if i am correct this is one of the many errors fox has made this season, i mena why does jack use a sig 228 against terrorists armed with m4's and mac 10's?
they really need to hire me as an editor. :lol:

[Ratamacue]

Supposedly it's able to carry AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles, but the probably of it ever doing so is just about nil.

[Airborneranger4israel]

thanx for the speedy reply

looks like i should be the editor, they should have used a f/a-22 raptor !

[Uncle Sam]

No AIM 9's


WEAPONS (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f117/)

The aircraft can carry a range of tactical fighter ordnance in the weapons bay, including BLU-109B low-level laser-guided bomb, GBU-10 and GBU-27 laser-guided bomb units, Raytheon AGM-65 Maverick and Raytheon AGM-88 HARM air-to-surface missiles.

[Ratamacue]

No AIM 9's

WEAPONS (http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f117/)

The aircraft can carry a range of tactical fighter ordnance in the weapons bay, including BLU-109B low-level laser-guided bomb, GBU-10 and GBU-27 laser-guided bomb units, Raytheon AGM-65 Maverick and Raytheon AGM-88 HARM air-to-surface missiles.
Yeah, I look there, but I also looked it up in a book I own, which says:


The USAF claims its weapons fit the 'full range of tactical fighter ordnance' which can include any missile with an active seeker like HARM or Maverick and possibly Sidewinder giving it some fighter capability.

[homeinvader]

F-117s are limited to ground attack roles. AIM 9 Sidewinders are rail-launched, not drop launched. Their seekerheads need to see their targets before they are released. That's why they are usually mounted on wide-end weapons stations (like wing tips). F-117s do not have the capability to rail launch a missile. The only weapon stations on an F-117 are actually in. Whatever ordnance an F-117 carries, it must be dropped out of the weapons bay, which prevents the weapon from being able to see. And because of the very small weapons bay, the F-117 can only carry a couple weapons at a time, 2 500-pounders or 2 JDAMs, etc. While an air-to-air missile could be drop-launched, it would reduce the F117's ground targeting capability because 1/2 of its ordnance load would be devoted to air-to-air. No, if F-117s are in use, then the air threat is going to be left to interceptors or simply good mission planning. The only real air defense they have is stealth.

[Ratamacue]

I didn't even think about the rail vs. drop launch. I guess it would be kind of bad if the missile were to be shot from a rail into the wall of the ordnance bay. ;)

[Scottie]

I didn't even think about the rail vs. drop launch. I guess it would be kind of bad if the missile were to be shot from a rail into the wall of the ordnance bay. ;)

very true, but would the F117 ever need to fire air to air missles? I mean isnt it capable of flying more or less through radar waves?

[Michael RVR]

I was actually under the impression that the F117 had the capability to lower bombs before dropping them , i could be wrong though.

I'm sure however that having AIM-9's on the black jets was supposedly a big priority back in the day.

:)

[FallenAngel]

I didn't even think about the rail vs. drop launch. I guess it would be kind of bad if the missile were to be shot from a rail into the wall of the ordnance bay. ;)

very true, but would the F117 ever need to fire air to air missles? I mean isnt it capable of flying more or less through radar waves?

No. IIRC you can still see an F117 on radar (especially newer radars with longer wavelengths). It just has a much lower RCS. Also, IIRC, the F/A-22 has an even smaller RCS and with it's ability to drop bombs now too, the F117's role as a first-strike weapon is likely to be questioned (at least I'm questioning it).

PM AFACadet. I'm sure he'd know for sure.

[assasi82]

Hello:

I think that F-117 isn´t enough fast to engage the enemy plane, he couldn´t win on air combat... he hasn´t enough agility like Mig-29,Flanker, etc...

It´s my impression...

One greeting

[Scottie]

I didn't even think about the rail vs. drop launch. I guess it would be kind of bad if the missile were to be shot from a rail into the wall of the ordnance bay. ;)

very true, but would the F117 ever need to fire air to air missles? I mean isnt it capable of flying more or less through radar waves?

No. IIRC you can still see an F117 on radar (especially newer radars with longer wavelengths). It just has a much lower RCS. Also, IIRC, the F/A-22 has an even smaller RCS and with it's ability to drop bombs now too, the F117's role as a first-strike weapon is likely to be questioned (at least I'm questioning it).

PM AFACadet. I'm sure he'd know for sure.

ah okay thanks :)

[jon]

I've heard that with a conventional radar the F-117 gives a echo with the same size as a pigeon..

but why is it called F-117? I've always thought that F stod for fighter and that a fighter should be able to engage in air-to-air combat?

[DariuszM]

Maybe becuase of the size...:) and F-111 is also not used for dogfights(??), but it is "F"...
Funny thing - F117 was supposed to be called F-17 but during some ceremony, someone important made a mistake and said officially to everyone "F-117". Nobody was in power to corect him after that...:)

[cold0]

The F-117 was a "covert" designation to mask the real role Nighthawk. During the '80s there were voices that the real name would been F-19 COSIRS or something similar.

The F-117 never carried the Sidewinders, Raytheon AGM-65 Maverick and Raytheon AGM-88 HARM, simply 'cause not necessary for the the F-117 main role (precision stirke against strategic targets).

For the voices of the F-117 in fighter role, the USAF probably tested the Nighthawk against its E-3 during the 80s. The idea was to use the Nighthamw, armed with Sidewinder missile, to kill high value flying target (as enemy flying C3I or AEW, expecially the soviet Il-76). Something similar was narrated in Tom Clancy fiction "Red Storm Raising"; in the realty the F-117 role AWACS- killer was never developed.
This role was later passed to the newborn, and more capable, ATF (the program that created the F/A-22)

[Tygryssek]

F-117 is high precision strike BOMBER, the signature F has given to cheat enemy's intelligency agencies.

Iraqis shot in the air searching misterious aircrafs on the sky...

[FallenAngel]

Maybe becuase of the size...:) and F-111 is also not used for dogfights(??), but it is "F"...
Funny thing - F117 was supposed to be called F-17 but during some ceremony, someone important made a mistake and said officially to everyone "F-117". Nobody was in power to corect him after that...:)

Actually the F-111 was intended to be a fighter for the US Navy (with some modifications of course). The Navy didn't buy it choosing instead to pursue what would later become the F-14.

[jon]

Maybe becuase of the size...:) and F-111 is also not used for dogfights(??), but it is "F"...
Funny thing - F117 was supposed to be called F-17 but during some ceremony, someone important made a mistake and said officially to everyone "F-117". Nobody was in power to corect him after that...:)

Wasn't there a similar "problem" with the F-35, i've heard that the real name should be F-25 or something like that?

[HoboWithAK]

I doubt it even has any forward looking air track radar to even find air targets. However, i'm sure there are many things about the aircraft (and other aircraft, for that matter, if we even know they exist) that haven't been released, or even labeled classified for the public.

[Angelino]

Maybe becuase of the size...:) and F-111 is also not used for dogfights(??), but it is "F"...
Funny thing - F117 was supposed to be called F-17 but during some ceremony, someone important made a mistake and said officially to everyone "F-117". Nobody was in power to corect him after that...:)
Don't think this one is true. The F-117 was really designed from the "Have Blue" project, which was a fighter project. If it was to be designed as a bomber originally, it would have been a lot larger. While the airplane did meet the requirement to be stealthy, it wasn't as manouverable (or fast) as a conventional fighter, so the airforce called it a night fighter instead. After the success of the Have Blue project, the Airforce opened another competition for a stealthy bomber. Lockheed did enter this competition as well, but they lost out to Northrop's project and the result was the B-2 bomber.

The one plane for which this really did happen was the SR-71. It was originally called the RS-71 (RS for Reconnaisance), but President Lyndon Johnson accidentally called it the SR-71 when announcing it for the first time to the House. Rather than contradict the President, the Airforce made Lockheed change all their documentation and drawings. I got this one from Ben Rich's book in the chapter where he was grousing about the rising costs of designing aircraft.

[Fox2]

Don't think the F-117 can carry heaters (AIM-9s). Main reason being because the seeker has to be able to see ahead of the aircraft. If it stowed an AIM-9 in the bomb bay, the seeker would literally be blind.

The F-117 relies on its low observability and lack of emitting signatures (radar, ECM) for protection. It doesn't use any ECM or EW packages as far as I know, and it doesn't have any sort of radar. The reason for this is so that there are no signals emitting from the aircraft. ECM Jammer pods, EW suites, and radar, when activated or in use, are like holding a large floodlight in a dark room. Sure, you can see whatever you're pointing at, but everyone else knows you are there too. The idea behind the Nighthawk is that the enemy should not know it is there until after the ordnance hits the ground.

[Airborneranger4israel]

so based on publicly available informaiton the F117 is not able to strike another aircraft>?

haha i knew it, 24 needs me

[Seraphim]

is the F117 Nighthawk capable of carrying out attacks on other aircraft , such as the one in tonights episode of 24?

I believe it is not, if i am correct this is one of the many errors fox has made this season, i mena why does jack use a sig 228 against terrorists armed with m4's and mac 10's?
they really need to hire me as an editor. :lol:

Hardly, if you notice, he doesnt use a Sig in this season.

[Airborneranger4israel]

yes he does 228, black i;m tellin u, also he ends up dropin it and picking up watever but he does use a sig

[Seraphim]

yes he does 228, black i;m tellin u, also he ends up dropin it and picking up watever but he does use a sig

It has already been discussed...I originally thought he was using a P2000, but I was corrected and it was a USP Compact.