Frontline in Iraq

[Skaman]

Anyone see this special on CBC?

This was a great opportunity to see the war from both sides without censorship or restraint. The realties of the war in Iraq were very hard to watch. You are presented with American deaths, Iraqi deaths, the pain, the anguish, and the carelessness.

Many journalists were interviewed and I think its interesting how they commented on the "liberation day" as propaganda, and in fact, the Iraqis they talked to were filled with sadness and discontent.

Interesting how different individuals coped with the death all around them, particular all the families torn apart because of the war.

Additionally, I found it sad, as they concluded there was no ultimate result and peace in sight, which is very disheartening.

I recommended everyone to see this, its very emotional, and should open your eyes to the horrors and realities of this war.

[ShotOver]

Meh, iraqi's..ischmaki's...

[WARPIG]

Please say it isn't so dicamus.
Tell me you are not taking a small piece of media and assuming it is a representation of reality. CBC?
Just remember that many Iraqi's had a lot of anguish and discontent about US occupation in Iraq. Many still do. Many have the opposite feeling as well. Don't read into that word either. Many. That could mean a lot.. or nothing.
War sucks. People will hate the US because we did cause death. Iraqi people also caused death too. They killed each other. Their own people opressed them too.
I will use these quotes again because they show how this war is not unique to the nature of humans. We react the same to war past or present.

The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep's throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as his liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty.
Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)
It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it.
Robert E. Lee (1807 - 1870)

[Seraphim]

http://www.cbc.ca/deadlineiraq/#

Ya I saw it, was very good.
You can see a glimps of some SF at objective curly and during the friendly fire on the convoy. Lots of footage that I havent seen before.

Its going to air again on CBC News: Sunday November 30 on at 10AM (10:30NL) on CBC TV

[WARPIG]

I don't have access to the CBC interviews but I went through all the stories. Thank you for bringing them to light. Although some of these aren't new to me, many here really should see them.
I truly hope this doesn't turn to a finger pointing thread. War is what it is. It is horrible and life altering. Every one it touches is changed forever. I have mentioned this before and I want to take the opportunity to say it here.
War takes lives. The reasons mean nothing, death comes with war. It is the people who witness, survive, and endure that we can learn from. The Iraqi civilians who suffer, the combatants that survive, and the soldiers that endure the consequences of their actions. These are the ones who truly know the reality. Not the cameras and media. Journalists have only a notion of what goes on. The rest they fill in. Some more accurately than others.. but an outside perspective none the less.
I have seen so many people ask questions like, "How many US lives are worth it?" "How many Americans must die before you leave Iraq?" These questions are ridiculous if you know Americans.
The question should be how much death will your sons endure before they can't come back? What amount of suffering must they witness before they break? Losing a loved one is horrific. What of those who are responsible. What of that Bradly gunner that fired on the family at the road block? Those deaths are with him forever. I don't want to take away from the suffering of those vicitims but I wanted to point out that there is a price to pay for winning a battle, for surviving a firefight, for defending the man next to you... you must kill. Dying in battle is only one sacrifice soldiers could endure in war. Killing, is another. If blame is the intent of this thread... I guess the US is as good a target as any. After all, the price a soldier pays for surviving a war is either cowardice and hiding, or he must kill. God save both.

[Roger Rabbit]

Any chance someone can video this and put it on bit torrent so i can get a copy. Not being American or Canadian i miss out on these things.

[Skaman]

These atrocities could have been avoided. Its very tragic that the conflict has evolved into this quagmire of confusion and death. Everyone needs to see this. We are only adding to the heaping pile of casualties by the day. A reevaluation of action in Iraq needs to take place.

And no, it is not biased, go to the website and check the interviewed journalists. Jumping the gun WARPIG?

Can anyone confirm if this was aired on any American television networks?

[ibstolidude]

Many journalists were interviewed and I think its interesting how they commented on the "liberation day" as propaganda, - the Liberation day that the many journalists first reported on??

[Skaman]

Many journalists were interviewed and I think its interesting how they commented on the "liberation day" as propaganda, - the Liberation day that the many journalists first reported on??

The day when Sadams statues was ripped down. They said it was not a true representation of the mentality and provided a false Iraqi sentiment. While obviously, some were happy nontheless! Although, their happiness was to be short lived....

[WARPIG]

I read every interview. Speaking of jumping the gun.. I mentioned that in my post.

I don't have access to the CBC interviews but I went through all the stories. Thank you for bringing them to light. Although some of these aren't new to me, many here really should see them.
For as much time as you spend running your mouth, jumping to conclusions and, stretching the truth dicamus.. you should be a world class athlete.
Here is a little perspective. Deaths by accident.. could be avoided. War as a whole could have been avoided. Your ignorant bias .. could be avoided. These are all facts of human nature. War has always had atrocity.. war has not always had media embeds. You act as if this is a new developement and yet your own source tells you otherwise.

There were two wars in Iraq. One featured soldiers. The other featured journalists. News organizations competed with one another, and the resulting risks journalists took to be first on a given story sometimes got them killed. The fact is that journalists and journalism were often front and centre in the stories that came out of the conflict. Embedding versus unilateral. The high mortality rate of journalists. Criticisms surrounding the soundness of the coverage. The unprecedented speed and immediacy of transmitting words and pictures of combat.

Now that the war is "over", journalists and journalism are still making headlines. Christiane Amanpour of CNN has stated that the coverage of the war, particularly in America, was too driven by patriotism. John Burns of the New York Times recently said that the Iraq war highlights how corrupt journalism has become. His colleague at the Times, Judith Miller, has herself been accused by some media observers of being corrupted by Pentagon influences. The controversy around Tony Blair and the BBC's coverage of the war continues to boil.
Given all this, we thought it would be fascinating and informative to zero in on the journalists who were there. Whether there were logistical impediments to getting their stories out, or editorial concerns, or military restrictions, there was much that they couldn't, or wouldn't say, during the war. Now they can. We interviewed nearly 50 journalists from around the world, representing the broadest range of media affiliations. You can read the entire interviews from 12 of them here on our website.

And the composite picture they give us of this war is one that we didn't really see: what went on behind the scenes, the fear, the exhilaration, the tedium, the professional gratification, as well as the toll it took on them emotionally and psychologically. It is their stories, as well as footage and pictures that never saw air time during the war, that lie at the heart of "Deadline Iraq: Uncensored Stories of the War.”

"There was smoke everywhere. There were vehicles around us burning everywhere. The chaplain of the unit that I was with picked up an automatic weapon and started firing back. Medics were starting to fire back. I thought about it quite seriously myself."

They were surrounded by hundreds of Syrian fighters. Several American soldiers died that day.~Craig White-NBC
Horrible new development huh. Carnage and death during combat.. who would have thought.

"I will remember the eyes of the women in Baghdad. So tired, so worried - all the nights they sleep with their children held close because if a bomb falls on their house, they want to die with them."Caroline Sinz-FR3 Wonder if a reporter wrote about a similar image of British or French or Russian or Etc. mothers during WWII.. wait.. we didn't have embeds then.

"The worst thing as far as I'm concerned is going to the hospital. The relatives are there and there are children in the wards and they are obviously in pain and your camera is leaning right into the family group. You're staring right over their shoulders at the very personal pain, that's what I found upsetting."Chater found working with the Iraqi minders difficult. There were very strict limits on what you could film and who you could talk to.
"If you try to break those rules then you were out. Your cameras confiscated, you personally expelled, your war would be over."David Chater-SKY News.
The worse thing was being told not to take images of loved ones dying? Who is worse the soldiers that inflicted the collateral damage or the ****ing human garbage that is upset because he couldn't get the juicy footage he wanted?
This is just the first 3 interviews of your source. Not one supports your idea that Death in Iraq is something that the US is liable for being any more or less reckless or responsible than any other particapant in war. That moral responsability lies with all of us. Those of who are put in the horrific predicament of killing.. killing the enemy.. killing fellow soldiers in fatal accidents.. killing civilians.. women and childeren.. have a responsabiliy to ensure it was not all in vain. Secure freedom and make one less country to war against. Survive to tell your kids and anyone that will listen, of the horror of war.
Stop twisting the details and facts to make this about some damn conspiracy. The US makes mistakes in War.. .. who has not. Is it acceptable?? Hell no! Is any death acceptable? Is any violence against another acceptable? Hell no. It is a part of human nature. The only new developement you have uncovered is the new breed of media idiots that put their lives at risk to capture images of horrors and actions that people have known about since war has ever been.

[Skaman]

You are blowing this up WAY to big. :roll:

No matter what is said, It will likely be dismissed, so all I can say is: watch the Deadline special for yourself.

[budanski]

I guess you told him.

[Skaman]

I guess you told him. p-)

hell, its like trying to show a picture to the blind, and singing a song to the deaf, it dosent work! PERIOD.

[budanski]

Coming from someone dumb and blind as yourself, who's gonna take you seriously?

[ibstolidude]

Many journalists were interviewed and I think its interesting how they commented on the "liberation day" as propaganda, - the Liberation day that the many journalists first reported on??

The day when Sadams statues was ripped down. They said it was not a true representation of the mentality and provided a false Iraqi sentiment. While obviously, some were happy nontheless! Although, their happiness was to be short lived....

So who reported on that event?
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/iraq/main500257.shtml - look up 09 April 03. - propoganda indeed...stupid ****s
From CBS news on 09 Apr:
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/04/09/image548477x.jpg

[Skaman]

Coming from someone dumb and blind as yourself, who's gonna take you seriously?

Take your driveling elsewhere. I question why I even waste my time to respond to a blantent instigator as yourself.

[Skaman]

Many journalists were interviewed and I think its interesting how they commented on the "liberation day" as propaganda, - the Liberation day that the many journalists first reported on??

The day when Sadams statues was ripped down. They said it was not a true representation of the mentality and provided a false Iraqi sentiment. While obviously, some were happy nontheless! Although, their happiness was to be short lived....

So who reported on that event?
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/iraq/main500257.shtml - look up 09 April 03. - propoganda indeed...stupid f***
From CBS news on 09 Apr:
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/04/09/image548477x.jpg

You honestly think that one day, and isolated filming of the toppling of Sadam’s statue represents the greater whole of the Iraqi populous and filled them with udder jubilation? That incident was isolated and propaganda, a great scene of news coverage to justify the home front and make them "feel good" about the war. Again, watch the special before you bite off more than you can chew.

[WARPIG]

I repudiated your post using your own content. Who is blind?

You tell stoli that he is looking at one isolated incident and have the nerve to lecture him on the big picture? Your the one focusing on all, and any, little window of opportunity to drag the US through the mud. I shut this one down for you and resort to insulting everone.

Just more proof of your perpetual ignorance. It is one thing to be uninformed... but to choose stupidity is really pitiful.

If you back up just few steps and look for the woods intead of the trees you might see that you were on a roll for a second there. Bringing to light this kind of content was important. Shaping it into your own ****ty attempt at rhetoric was a stroke of sheer idiocy.

[ibstolidude]

You honestly think that one day, and isolated filming of the toppling of Sadam’s statue represents the greater whole of the Iraqi populous and filled them with udder jubilation? That incident was isolated and propaganda, a great scene of news coverage to justify the home front and make them "feel good" about the war. Again, watch the special before you bite off more than you can chew. - actually I'll continue to base my opinions on Iraq on the conversations I have/had/will continue to have with Iraqi's in Iraq, thanks for the assumptions - jackass.. now pull your assuming head out of your ass "before you bite off more thatn you can chew" and reread my post...as I stated CBS reported that "propoganda" themselves on 09 APR 03.
BUt-And so what if one does make there opinion based on "one day, and isolated filming of the toppling of Sadam’s statue"...you make your opinion based on insufficient evidence and the hearsay and opnions of others.


Could you have said anything stupider???

YOU DOLT - I have seen the special before I was bored and shut it off...
and I did see CBS try and pawn the events off as propoganda....
PROPOGANDA THAT THEY THEMSELVES REPORTED....you idiot that picture is from the CBS website..you can go back and pull the CBS news stories about the events...events they reported on.

so thanks for assisting in my point that CBS is a self serving - self promoting - self contradicting piece of **** news service that is just as bad and non-sensical as the rest of them..

now, reread my post..
thank you very much.

[Skaman]

There is a difference between filming an event, and the way a news source portrays it. CBC Newsworld did not blast it over the air for a week straight "patting themselves on the back" like other news sources I will not name.

CBC took a great approach in this documentary that you found "boring" by interviewing many associated press and including footage most news sources would NEVER include.

ie.
Families in anguish
Dead Americans
The heat of REAL battles
Swearing and cursive Americans
Soldiers in emotional pain based on their current actions
The reality of this war!


Not a couple explosions, a toppled Iraqi statue and a bomb site filmed after an extensive cleanup.

This war is not clean, Americans soldiers are not the evangelist warriors you may think of them. Mistakes are made, suffering results. Deadline identifies this. Biased, hardly...

[ibstolidude]

This war is not clean, Americans soldiers are not the evangelist warriors you may think of them. Mistakes are made, suffering results. Deadline identifies this. Biased, hardly...
thanks buddy I really needed you to tell me how the war WAS...I'll pass on your second hand knowledge. Thanks all the same.

...You almost went to the Balkans and you are going to tell me how the war really is/was....
No thanks..you can keep that **** to yourself.

[WARPIG]

Your right..
The intro I read was generally unbiased. The stories were portrayed in a fairly objective manner.. and informative. New info? Nope. Boring.. well depends on your perspective.
Your the one that used it to propel your biased view.

These atrocities could have been avoided. Its very tragic that the conflict has evolved into this quagmire of confusion and death. Everyone needs to see this. We are only adding to the heaping pile of casualties by the day. A reevaluation of action in Iraq needs to take place.

And no, it is not biased, go to the website and check the interviewed journalists. Jumping the gun WARPIG?

I said I was hoping you wouldn't use it in a biased fashion (like you are known for.)

You honestly think that one day, and isolated filming of the toppling of Sadam’s statue represents the greater whole of the Iraqi populous and filled them with udder jubilation? That incident was isolated and propaganda, a great scene of news coverage to justify the home front and make them "feel good" about the war. Again, watch the special before you bite off more than you can chew.
You are reading into a generally objective view of the war. Yes it paints a less than gleaming picture of the US soldiers.. wow.. shocking. I assumed that trained fighting men were all alter boys.
The articles and interviews aren't even issues anymore. It is about your inability to get the friggin point.
I think I need to write to Santa Clause and as him to give dicamus19 a friggin clue for Christmas.

[Skaman]

a clue heh, enlighten me WARPIG. You openly criticize, yet you never shoot it straight, what is it you are REALLY trying to say. What is the POINT?

[Trigger]

The POINT?
The POINT is that you are a moron and fail to realize it even when beaten over the virtual head with the fact.

Forget it WARPIG, douchemouth couldn't find a clue at a friggin' Scooby-Doo convention.

*Making the 'big giant L' with my thumb and forefinger*

[Skaman]

The POINT?
The POINT is that you are a moron and fail to realize it even when beaten over the virtual head with the fact.

Forget it WARPIG, douchemouth couldn't find a clue at a friggin' Scooby-Doo convention.

*Making the 'big giant L' with my thumb and forefinger*

my oh my, that certainly was thought provoking and shed some singnificant insight on the situation. Bravo TRIGGER for your worthwhile contribution of verbal stench!

[California Joe]

Triggage, how do you really feel?

[Trigger]

At least he didn't misspell anything in my quote...

[Tom.G]

what a newb!

[SFontaine]

War is not a game. No war is fun, cool or clean.
Yet unfortunantly War is a constant, and something that is sometimes needed. I wish some of you would understand this. It isn't realistic to have a world where everyone holds hands and dances round a rainbow.

[budanski]

Coming from someone dumb and blind as yourself, who's gonna take you seriously?

Take your driveling elsewhere. I question why I even waste my time to respond to a blantent instigator as yourself.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. :roll:

Its funny reading your conspiracy theories. Explain to everyone how the U.S. managed to pull the toppling of the Saddam statue conspiracy in front of hundreds of embedded reporters from over 60 countries?

[Roger Rabbit]

Elvis did it rofl

[NcDeuce]

http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/album25/aag.jpg

[WARPIG]

I can see I need to use smaller words when trying to make a point with you dicamus. The point is the info is informative... oops big word.. uhmm it was good. Your representatio of it.. oops.. another big word.. .. you think of it as bad.
Here let me try and be clear.
America=good. Americans=not perfect. Americans=same as every human being on the earth.